Review of Pace View

[Pensacola Pete]

When I emailed Greg, asking if the program accepted JCapper files, he sent me a free copy, no strings attached, so I could find out. The program did take JCapper files, and they didn't do badly. Since I decided to use the program, I sent him the $35 anyway; fair is fair.

I wondered how the program would do with BRIS files, so I tested it with both. BRIS files work better, but JCapper files also work well.

Understand that this isn't a magic winning machine. It's also not a full-featured program. It focuses on recent speed and pace, with a few one-click spot plays tossed in. Those who want a fuller-featured program might try HTR, HSH, or JCapper itself. What the program does do is concentrate on its focus areas, and it does that well. It provides a different view than other programs do. In my opinion, the view is valid, while not being the final word, and it is useful if it's viewed in that regard.

The program itself accepts BRIS single files, Multicaps, and JCapper files. It allows for manual scratching. It has a proprietary power rating and can also do a full-card list of the top E1, E2, Late, and within 2.5 lengths finish. There is a lot of information in the output. There are also a handful of spot plays built in. The player can use the full-card listing buttons and create his/her spot plays from that.

As for performance, the program has its good and bad days, like any other program. While it finds a lot of short-priced horses, it also finds its fair share of longer-prices. A user who looks for plays with value (overlays) can probably make a profit. Players who use other programs may find this useful for offering another view of a race.

BRIS vs JCapper: The program was written to use BRIS files, and its ratings are probably better-balanced to the relative ratings of that file type. JCapper ratings tend to have a different balance; for example, if using the program side by side with both file types, the Late ratings generated with BRIS tend to be way different than those generated by JCapper. That said, based on my limited samples, JCapper files do occasionally find things that BRIS files don't. Where one file type has the winner and the other doesn't, JCapper file exclusive winners tend to be shorter-priced, but not every time; they do get some longer-priced winners.

CONCLUSION: The program is seriously under-priced. I've bought programs costing a lot more that did a lot less. For $35, it's hard to go wrong.

[levinmpa]

Thanks for your review. The Pace View software sounds interesting. Can you tell me who Greg is and where one would find some information on this software on the web? Thanks

[Dr Gonzo]

Thanks for your review. The Pace View software sounds interesting. Can you tell me who Greg is and where one would find some information on this software on the web? Thanks

http://www.pace-view.com/

Doc

[green80]

Just an example, I played pace-view best bets Fri and Sat at Lad,

The results as follows:



7/1 1st Joe Chase 6.80 3.80 2.80

4th Fore Mary 6.40 3.40 2.40

6th Due to Pleasure out



7/2 1st Saintly Dip 0.00 4.60 3.40

2nd Lass Channel 2.40 2.10 2.10

3rd Social Factor 5.60 3.00 2.20



based on a $2 win bet, I wagered $12 and got back $21.20, not bad in anybody’s book. No thinking involved, I just place a win bet on all the best bets, takes 5 min.

[Pensacola Pete]

To answer a question that's come up a few times: the DRF and the MCP (BRIS Single and Multicaps) files produce the exact same readout in Pace View, because the data fields the program reads are identical. I don't know if that's also true of the old TSN EG files, but I doubt it, since they used figures from a different source.

Note that JCP files have different ratings and figures (from HDW) and will provide different readouts than the BRIS files do.

Here is an example of the same race with MCP and DRF files:

[NorCalGreg]

Thank you Tom for the review, very nice...and Dr G and greenie.

This is an e-mail I received a couple days ago from a gentleman--he picked up on a profitable wagering method with Pace View pretty quick--he did a little studying first:

Hi

Used the program from July 1st through the 4th - came up with a track model for both.

At Monmouth, your two power numbers were the best - if I were to bet your number 1 and 2 power numbers, would of caught 18 of 36. Your BB would have 6 of 15. And this was pure vanilla. Plan to go back and look for various spot plays but the start would be to key in on your best bets/two high power numbers and go from there.

At Belmont, only the two high power numbers did anything - 16 of 29. Again, if your start with these two horses, you can then go from there.

With these 8 races completed, I can start to look for the spot plays mentioned at your web site. Just have to find the right formula for these two tracks

Looked at boxing the two top power numbers in an exacta - would have caught 2 at Monmouth but one was for &80.

At Belmont, would have caught 4 of 29 and still make money.

Again, thanks - will keep you posted

[kingfin66]

I finally saved up enough pennies and popped for this expensive software. Looking forward to checking it out.

[jk3521]

RPM Handicapping will soon be knocking at your door. :D

[kingfin66]

That went way over my head.

[green80]

RPM Handicapping will soon be knocking at your door. :D

Don't answer. I have RPG optimum, about a $400 program and pace view beats it head to head almost every day. Plus pace view is much faster and simple to use.

[Tom]

Coming soon.....Snap-capper PRO, with the new Pace View module! :D

[green80]

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet.

The results from 7/1 to 7/10 are as follows:
12 wins from 21 bets -57% win percentage

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI. I will continue and see how this plays out longer term if anyone is interested.

[upthecreek]

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet.

The results from 7/1 to 7/10 are as follows:
12 wins from 21 bets -57% win percentage

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI. I will continue and see how this plays out longer term if anyone is interested.
I'm going to do the same @ Mth starting today I'll report back after I have 40-50 BB

[green80]

I'm going to do the same @ Mth starting today I'll report back after I have 40-50 BB

We would then have a basis for track to track comparison. I will not include off tracks and off turf races since this program seems to do its best on fast tracks

[Partsnut]

If pace is your thing then this is a nice little tool to add
to your arsenal.
The software is well meant and is easy and fun to use.
Greg is a nice guy and his software is a bargain at the price.

[Light]

How is this "pace" software any superior to just using the Bris summary page on pace. For example yesterday 7/14 @ Belmont 6th I noticed the winner (before the race) had the best E1 and E2. In the "Early Pace last race" she was best by 6 points to her nearest rival and proceeded to wire the field winning by 5 paying $13. You don't need software for that. Takes a few seconds.

[Tom]

There are several options to use - just click and go for each one.

[Light]

There are also several options to use in the Bris summary page which is faster than clicking. I'm trying to figure out what the advantage is of using the software over the Bris summary page knowing Greg is really into the Bris pace numbers himself. Aren't they synonymous?

[NorCalGreg]

There are also several options to use in the Bris summary page which is faster than clicking. I'm trying to figure out what the advantage is of using the software over the Bris summary page knowing Greg is really into the Bris pace numbers himself. Aren't they synonymous?

I understand what you are saying Light--no they're not "synonymous"--similar in some ways. If you'll notice the summary focuses on the last race--as do I. I tried to include what I liked about it, including Quirin-at-a-glance and last early and late pace leaders, as well as best of last two bris speed.

I doubt the folks that put out the Bris Summary get many e-mails like this one-- I get regularly concerning PACE VIEW:


Greg,

One of your top 2 power numbers won 6 of the 8 races last night @ PEN. Mighty good buddy. $17.80 winner in the 8th.

All the best,

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

[ebcorde]

I understand what you are saying Light--no they're not "synonymous"--similar in some ways. If you'll notice the summary focuses on the last race--as do I. I tried to include what I liked about it, including Quirin-at-a-glance and last early and late pace leaders, as well as best of last two bris speed.

I doubt the folks that put out the Bris Summary get many e-mails like this one-- I get regularly concerning PACE VIEW:


Greg,

One of your top 2 power numbers won 6 of the 8 races last night @ PEN. Mighty good buddy. $17.80 winner in the 8th.

All the best,

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

when I get this paypal account fixed I'll buy tried today.

[Capper Al]

How's the documentation? I prefer to understand a product before buying it. I am not a fan of blindly picking power numbers.

Thanks

[Tom]

Very good website that goes into detail.

[NorCalGreg]

How's the documentation? I prefer to understand a product before buying it. I am not a fan of blindly picking power numbers.

Thanks

I have a few friends on the forum who test the program and spot plays, mostly because they enjoy it. They aren't data base guys, one in fact is a senior who just likes to tinker with the ponies and spot plays. He came up with something that's excellent and may appear on our new program--Due out maybe in a few months. Oh I do have a data base guy now working on some things.

You've read the comments from handicappers such as Tom in the post above, Pandy, Pensacola Pete, Dr G and probably 10 customers...buy the program and document for yourself. You have my permission to post any thorough results you may find.

If you aren't satisfied after that--turn your results over to me--and I will buy you any RPM program of your choice----complete WITH their documentation.--NCG

[Pensacola Pete]

How is this "pace" software any superior to just using the Bris summary page on pace. For example yesterday 7/14 @ Belmont 6th I noticed the winner (before the race) had the best E1 and E2. In the "Early Pace last race" she was best by 6 points to her nearest rival and proceeded to wire the field winning by 5 paying $13. You don't need software for that. Takes a few seconds.


It produces three proprietary ratings that BRIS Summary does not: it's own Power rating, Early Power, and Late Power. They produce different rankings than BRIS's Early and Late ratings and Prime Power do. It's another way to look at the race.

[Capper Al]

Thanks.

[mikesal57]

Hey buddy...does SOPHIA come with the software?

[green80]

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet.

The results from 7/1 to 7/10 are as follows:
12 wins from 21 bets -57% win percentage

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI. I will continue and see how this plays out longer term if anyone is interested.


Not a great week this week. Totals from 7/1 to 7/17:

17 wins from 37 bets - 46% win percentage

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI

[whodoyoulike]

Quote:
Originally Posted by green80
From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet.

The results from 7/1 to 7/10 are as follows:
12 wins from 21 bets -57% win percentage

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI. I will continue and see how this plays out longer term if anyone is interested.

Not a great week this week. Totals from 7/1 to 7/17:

17 wins from 37 bets - 46% win percentage

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI

Thanks, this does look interesting.

Didn't you do something similar regarding another software program's results over a year ago?

I forget the results.

How did that one turn out?

[green80]

Thanks, this does look interesting.

Didn't you do something similar regarding another software program's results over a year ago?

I forget the results.

How did that one turn out?

I did, and the results were not worth following. I find when you get 100-200 races in at the same track, you get a pretty good idea. I use pace-view and have another program that I also track and both had a tough week last week. I will keep posting on the results from PV.

[NorCalGreg]

Hey buddy...does SOPHIA come with the software?

This is as close as you or I are ever going to get to Sophia

[mikesal57]

This is as close as you or I are ever going to get to Sophia


False Advertising!!!

You suck

[whodoyoulike]

I did, and the results were not worth following. I find when you get 100-200 races in at the same track, you get a pretty good idea. I use pace-view and have another program that I also track and both had a tough week last week. I will keep posting on the results from PV.

Hopefully, you have your results in a spreadsheet type of database. It's unfair to only view the results in total. You probably need to stratify your info e.g., mdns, cl, alw and stakes etc., maybe even by purse value within those levels or in total.

If you just want to use the results in total then maybe determining what is an acceptable win% and/or ROI IMO. The way you're presenting the results appears to be misleading. Maybe a win % greater than say 33% (or whatever) is good and less than that is poor. I'm uncertain what an acceptable ROI would be betting every race. Again, just some thoughts to make your presentation more informative and useful.

[NorCalGreg]

Hopefully, you have your results in a spreadsheet type of database. It's unfair to only view the results in total. You probably need to stratify your info e.g., mdns, cl, alw and stakes etc., maybe even by purse value within those levels or in total.

If you just want to use the results in total then maybe determining what is an acceptable win% and/or ROI IMO. The way you're presenting the results appears to be misleading. Maybe a win % greater than say 33% (or whatever) is good and less than that is poor. I'm uncertain what an acceptable ROI would be betting every race. Again, just some thoughts to make your presentation more informative and useful.

You realize green80 isn't involved in selling either of those two programs? He's kind enough to freely give his own compiled stats in whatever "presentation" he chooses.

Whodo--I would give you the program and data files if I thought you would "stratify" the results over a one month period in the formats you have requested of green80.
Problem is I doubt you could complete such a project---sorry

Any takers? NorCalGreg@Usa.Com

[green80]

Hopefully, you have your results in a spreadsheet type of database. It's unfair to only view the results in total. You probably need to stratify your info e.g., mdns, cl, alw and stakes etc., maybe even by purse value within those levels or in total.

If you just want to use the results in total then maybe determining what is an acceptable win% and/or ROI IMO. The way you're presenting the results appears to be misleading. Maybe a win % greater than say 33% (or whatever) is good and less than that is poor. I'm uncertain what an acceptable ROI would be betting every race. Again, just some thoughts to make yur presentation more informative and useful.

I'm trying to make this where it is not misleading. Anyone can get PV and do what I am doing. Bet the PV Best Bets for the day. If any followers do the same, we should get the same results.

I'm just trying to keep things simple and get enough races in my database to give a true sample. Like I said, I am just using PV's BEST BETS, that you get by clicking on 1 tab. These BB may be any kind of race, mdn, claiming, stakes, etc., long or short,that is the program's choice. I just bet them as they come out. This way everyone that does the same thing should get the same results. When we start selecting the "good ones" out of the best bets, that would leave too much to the skill of the user and take us away from the performance of the program. I'm trying to see how good the program is on all races, not just on state bred maiden fillies going a mile on the turf races. Who wants to wait all week on one of those to make a bet?

Really win percentage does not matter to me, it is the ROI., but neither should be misleading, you run the same cards thru PV and you should get the exact same figures.

[whodoyoulike]

You realize green80 isn't involved in selling either of those two programs? He's kind enough to freely give his own compiled stats in whatever "presentation" he chooses.

Whodo--I would give you the program and data files if I thought you would "stratify" the results over a one month period in the formats you have requested of green80.
Problem is I doubt you could complete such a project---sorry

Any takers? NorCalGreg@Usa.Com

I realize green80 isn't involved. And, I wasn't trying to be critical of his attempt or of your program but, to have a more meaningful presentation of the info.

As presented what does it mean or will it mean?

[NorCalGreg]

I realize green80 isn't involved. And, I wasn't trying to be critical of his attempt or of your program but, to have a more meaningful presentation of the info.

As presented what does it mean or will it mean?

Actually I have heard from a volunteer who will take a good long look--so we may get some results from him. My field tester, a paper and pencil man (like myself) has some encouraging results from Monmouth and Belmont.

The gist of his results are, like everything else...you've got to pick your spots.

LOL..he always says that---you can't just willy-nilly bet everything that comes down the pike :D . That's very true.

[whodoyoulike]

Actually I have heard from a volunteer who will take a good long look--so we may get some results from him. My field tester, a paper and pencil man (like myself) has some encouraging results from Monmouth and Belmont.

The gist of his results are, like everything else...you've got to pick your spots.

LOL..he always says that---you can't just willy-nilly bet everything that comes down the pike :D . That's very true.

So, you do understand what I was getting at with my earlier post. Green80's presentation wasn't going to provide enough info to determine in which spots to focus.

[green80]

So, you do understand what I was getting at with my earlier post. Green80's presentation wasn't going to provide enough info to determine in which spots to focus.

Right now, I will just focus on the Best Bets at a single track. Later, when I get more data, I may focus on a certain type race if I see a trend, but for not I want to see how one comes out just playing the best bets.

PS. I am wagering real money on these Best Bets because everything seems to change when you start actually betting on these picks.

[whodoyoulike]

Okay. But, your presentation is similar to the 33% of favorites win the races at all tracks which has been that way (or a close % range because of field size) for as long as I can remember and that info hasn't helped anyone handicap a race. My suggestion was to maybe help you provide some meaningful info. I've gathered a lot of info on a number of things and try to determine if it's worthwhile to continue or if it's basically a dead end.

And, I realize you've stated in this thread and the other one you were betting real money. I agree that when the real money gets to a certain level your mind begins to affect your play.

[green80]

Okay. But, your presentation is similar to the 33% of favorites win the races at all tracks which has been that way (or a close % range because of field size) for as long as I can remember and that info hasn't helped anyone handicap a race. My suggestion was to maybe help you provide some meaningful info. I've gathered a lot of info on a number of things and try to determine if it's worthwhile to continue or if it's basically a dead end.

And, I realize you've stated in this thread and the other one you were betting real money. I agree that when the real money gets to a certain level your mind begins to affect your play.

I can guarantee you that just betting the favorites is a losing way to go.

Although most of my winners are lower priced horses, you have to know which ones to play and what to pass. The only meaningful info I am trying to produce is to see if you can just bet the Best Bets as selected by Pace-View and come close to making any money.

[Pensacola Pete]

I could understand somebody's concern if the program cost $1,000 or $500, or even $100. I don't see all of the fuss for $35. Several people have stated that the program is legitimate and does a good job of picking contenders that are often not the same ones that BRIS Prime or the tote board or the morning line pick.

The only way for somebody to be completely satisfied that the program works or doesn't work is to buy it and test it. What works for one person may not work for another.

I've tested the program. As far as I'm concerned i's legitimate. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have paid for it AFTER it was given to me for free to beta test JCP files. Others may do better, the same, or worse with it.

[bugboy]

TRK RACE PICK
FE 6 12
FPX 2 6
IND 3 9
PID 1 3


FE 7 1
FLX 1 2
FLX 7 3
FLX 8 4
FPX 6 5
MNR 3 2
MNR 5 7
MNR 6 1
MNR 9 7
PID 5 5
PID 7 4
PRX 1 1A
PRX 2 3
PRX 6 2
PRX 7 3

THESE ARE FROM A WELL KNOWN PROGRAM, I AM ONLY A LITTLE OLD HORSE PLAYER. JUST WANTED TO POST THESE PICKS. GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE 'CAPERS

[bugboy]

races played 18....after 1 scratch
amt. bet=36.00
races won=11=61%
amt won=56.00 +20.00 roi=1.55

not a great day, however there was a profit.
yes this was only 1 day.
only 18 races, now if it were 200 races with this outcome, that might make it a little more interesting.

good luck to all.
may all your photo finishes go your way.

[NorCalGreg]

races played 18....after 1 scratch
amt. bet=36.00
races won=11=61%
amt won=56.00 +20.00 roi=1.55

not a great day, however there was a profit.
yes this was only 1 day.
only 18 races, now if it were 200 races with this outcome, that might make it a little more interesting.

good luck to all.
may all your photo finishes go your way.

That's a great day to me, bugboy. There's a guy in the other thread that wants 30% ROI over 2,500 races before he'll even CONSIDER buying my $35 program. :D

[mikesal57]

TRK RACE PICK
FE 6 12
FPX 2 6
IND 3 9
PID 1 3


FE 7 1
FLX 1 2
FLX 7 3
FLX 8 4
FPX 6 5
MNR 3 2
MNR 5 7
MNR 6 1
MNR 9 7
PID 5 5
PID 7 4
PRX 1 1A
PRX 2 3
PRX 6 2
PRX 7 3

THESE ARE FROM A WELL KNOWN PROGRAM, I AM ONLY A LITTLE OLD HORSE PLAYER. JUST WANTED TO POST THESE PICKS. GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE 'CAPERS


I'm confused...are these PV selections?

[NorCalGreg]

I'm confused...are these PV selections?


No, think bugboy mentioned at one time he was using Racing Digest? one of the online services--they've been around forever--they must be decent

[mikesal57]

No, think bugboy mentioned at one time he was using Racing Digest? one of the online services--they've been around forever--they must be decent


OK...so why is that here?

[NorCalGreg]

OK...so why is that here?

He felt like posting it here Mr board police :mad:

[Capper Al]

While I'm waiting for my copy, let me ask what tracks and race types does the software seem to work the best on?

Thanks

[NorCalGreg]

You know Al....you can get a digital copy while you're waiting for a disk

That takes 20 seconds

[Capper Al]

You know Al....you can get a digital copy while you're waiting for a disk

That takes 20 seconds

Thanks

[NorCalGreg]

Thanks

You do want the digital copy?

[NorCalGreg]

I couldn't figure out why you wanted a disk---that costs extra and you have to wait like a week


Here it comes---I got your e-mail

[mikesal57]

I couldn't figure out why you wanted a disk

He wants "hard" evidence against you...

looks like I have to change my hat from Police to Lawyer...

[Capper Al]

Got it.

Thanks

[acorn54]

using mine first day and happy. anyway a lousy 35 bucks is all norcalgreg is asking, practically just a gratuity afaik.

[bugboy]

no, mike. this is a program that I use . its a subscription . yesterdays picks
were straight from the program. no 'capping on my part. there are many ways to use it. this was just one of them.

[mikesal57]

no, mike. this is a program that I use . its a subscription . yesterdays picks
were straight from the program. no 'capping on my part. there are many ways to use it. this was just one of them.


No problem BB.....Just keep it going ..I am always interested in software

mike

[green80]

That's a great day to me, bugboy. There's a guy in the other thread that wants 30% ROI over 2,500 races before he'll even CONSIDER buying my $35 program. :D

I have found it you can show decent results after about 200 races your results will not vary that much, especially with the lower priced winners PV has most of the time. When you start getting the 30/1 and up winners it skews your results.

[Light]

I have found it you can show decent results after about 200 races your results will not vary that much,

You kind of answered that question yourself a little while back in this thread, didn't you?

Not a great week this week. Totals from 7/1 to 7/17:

17 wins from 37 bets - 46% win percentage

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI

What I don't like is people posting small winning windows from the program such as today

Pretty good night for the top PV Power Number.

4 of 8 on top (6.00, 5.00, 9.00 & 15.20)

Great, but the problem is no continuity,ever. Every time someone hits something with the program there's hi five's. But there is a lot of silence in between and we know what that usually means.

[mikesal57]

Great, but the problem is no continuity,ever. Every time someone hits something with the program there's hi five's. But there is a lot of silence in between and we know what that usually means.


Maybe you guys should get together a play a months worth at your specified way and shut this guy up!!
List your track or spot plays and way of betting...and stick to it for a month

Mike

[Speed Figure]

Maybe you guys should get together a play a months worth at your specified way and shut this guy up!!
List your track or spot plays and way of betting...and stick to it for a month

MikeLight claims he has his own software program, but has never shown one screen shot of it!

[Dave Schwartz]

Great, but the problem is no continuity,ever. Every time someone hits something with the program there's hi five's. But there is a lot of silence in between and we know what that usually means.

Light,

To be fair, many of these users are not really playing to beat the world. Sure, they want to be competitive, but their agendas are not the same as guys like you and me.

That is not to say that someone cannot figure out a way to win long-term with such a program, but the typical player is just not going to hand-test 3,000 races to make sure it works before trying it with real money. (And why should they?)

IMHO, the important thing here is that the design of the software clearly fits into the mindset of a great many handicappers (as does the price). Personally, I like the way the data is formatted. :ThmbUp:

If I were to say that there is no empirical proof of the validity of the method(s), factors, etc., a logical response would be, "So what?"


Dave

[Light]

Maybe you guys should get together a play a months worth at your specified way and shut this guy up!!
List your track or spot plays and way of betting...and stick to it for a month

Mike

I'm not selling anything. So why don't YOU guys shut me up and post 100 or more plays, especially you Mr cheerleader. What are you scared of?

[Light]

Light,

To be fair, many of these users are not really playing to beat the world. Sure, they want to be competitive, but their agendas are not the same as guys like you and me.

That is not to say that someone cannot figure out a way to win long-term with such a program, but the typical player is just not going to hand-test 3,000 races to make sure it works before trying it with real money. (And why should they?)

IMHO, the important thing here is that the design of the software clearly fits into the mindset of a great many handicappers (as does the price). Personally, I like the way the data is formatted. :ThmbUp:

If I were to say that there is no empirical proof of the validity of the method(s), factors, etc., a logical response would be, "So what?"


Dave


What I find dishonest is the "I caught this or that horse here and there". I have a simple experiment. I can say my system is to bet every #5 horse. I can get a lot of claims like "I had the #5 at Laurel for $38, thanks for your system". Or "I had the 5-5 Double at GG. You're the best." It's hype and dishonest because its taken out of context of the larger picture.

We all have good days betting and so do software programs, but what counts is the consistency. I saw many cop outs by the author of the program as he started 3 different bankrolls $1000,$500 (twice) and abandoned all of them due to poor performance.

I called him on it and the only explanation he could give was name calling and anger. Very unprofessional and revealing for someone in business as you are aware of I'm sure.

[NorCalGreg]

What I find dishonest is the "I caught this or that horse here and there". I have a simple experiment. I can say my system is to bet every #5 horse. I can get a lot of claims like "I had the #5 at Laurel for $38, thanks for your system". Or "I had the 5-5 Double at GG. You're the best." It's hype and dishonest because its taken out of context of the larger picture.

We all have good days betting and so do software programs, but what counts is the consistency. I saw many cop outs by the author of the program as he started 3 different bankrolls $1000,$500 (twice) and abandoned all of them due to poor performance.

I called him on it and the only explanation he could give was name calling and anger. Very unprofessional and revealing for someone in business as you are aware of I'm sure.

You've already stated you are not going to buy my program--due to my personal "faults" I suppose you would call them. You have become a troll now. What is it you want? For me to tell everyone I'm a fake, my program doesn't work at all? And you, Light, have exposed me to be a charlatan of the highest order?

I've sold close to 150 copies now.....you are the only one complaining---and you have never even used the program once. But I'm the joke? Do us all a favor and find someone else to focus your anger/jealousy/ insecurity on. If you have $35 dollars--at least buy the program--that will give you the right to complain. But making personal attacks about me--like that has something to do with the quality of my program---is just ridiculous.

[NorCalGreg]

I'll tell you what Light....Saratoga opens tomorrow.....put your programs top picks up against PACE VIEW'S---EVERDAY I'll have mine up


and please----don't make any excuses

PUT THEM UP OR SHUT UP


anyone wanna bet this blowhard doesn't post anything?

[thaskalos]

Great, but the problem is no continuity,ever. Every time someone hits something with the program there's hi five's. But there is a lot of silence in between and we know what that usually means.

Why should NorCalGreg be blamed for the "discontinuity" shown by his customers? His customers have paid their money...and they can say whatever they want to say...in whichever manner they want to say it.

[Pensacola Pete]

I'm not selling anything. So why don't YOU guys shut me up and post 100 or more plays, especially you Mr cheerleader. What are you scared of?

I changed my mind. I'm back, briefly.

Okay, Mister, You get your wish. I doubt it will shut you up.

Greg has no idea yet that I'm doing this. It will be news to him.

I'm going to post plays over the long weekend, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. These are the rules:

1) I'm going to start a new selection thread in "Handicapping." In it will be plays over the long weekend of Friday, Saturday and Sunday. BRIS single-format files will be used with Pace View.

2) I will be using certain tracks and excluding others. That list will be posted before I begin and won't be changed throughout the three days.

3) I will be using one or more "spot plays." The rules for each will be posted before I begin and will not change throughout the three days. All spot plays can be found by looking at the output screen. There won't be any judgement involved.

4) I'll post each day's plays in advance of the first race at the first track. They will NOT take any scratches into account.

In other words, anybody who has a copy of Pace View and the BRIS files can use the rules of the spot plays and come up with the exact same list of plays that I will post. I won't be able to "tighten up" if winning or "plunge" if losing. I don't get to pass on low odds or additional scratches of other horses that may affect the way the race is run. It's a very rigid format that has all the disadvantages that aren't faced in real life.

We'll see how it goes.

[Speed Figure]

I'll tell you what Light....Saratoga opens tomorrow.....put your programs top picks up against PACE VIEW'S---EVERDAY I'll have mine up


and please----don't make any excuses

PUT THEM UP OR SHUT UP


anyone wanna bet this blowhard doesn't post anything? You have a better chance of winning Powerball without buying a ticket then having him post picks from his so called software!

[Tom]

I apologize.
I was not aware I had to post every winner.

I thought the day I posted 100% wins at FL was good enough to make my point.

[green80]

Light,

To be fair, many of these users are not really playing to beat the world. Sure, they want to be competitive, but their agendas are not the same as guys like you and me.

That is not to say that someone cannot figure out a way to win long-term with such a program, but the typical player is just not going to hand-test 3,000 races to make sure it works before trying it with real money. (And why should they?)

IMHO, the important thing here is that the design of the software clearly fits into the mindset of a great many handicappers (as does the price). Personally, I like the way the data is formatted. :ThmbUp:

If I were to say that there is no empirical proof of the validity of the method(s), factors, etc., a logical response would be, "So what?"


Dave

If I can make 4% ROI at the end of the month I am happy. I combine that with my rebate money and I make about 10% of what I bet. The way I bet, that smokes and beer money.

[NorCalGreg]

I apologize.
I was not aware I had to post every winner.

I thought the day I posted 100% wins at FL was good enough to make my point.

Thought the day Pace View went 9 for 9 @ Mountaineer would silence THE ONE CRITIC....if your FLX 5 for 5 Best Bets day didn't.

Maybe he'll actually buy the program now......

[Light]

You've already stated you are not going to buy my program--due to my personal "faults" I suppose you would call them. You have become a troll now. What is it you want? For me to tell everyone I'm a fake, my program doesn't work at all? And you, Light, have exposed me to be a charlatan of the highest order?

I've sold close to 150 copies now.....you are the only one complaining---and you have never even used the program once. But I'm the joke? Do us all a favor and find someone else to focus your anger/jealousy/ insecurity on. If you have $35 dollars--at least buy the program--that will give you the right to complain. But making personal attacks about me--like that has something to do with the quality of my program---is just ridiculous.

I actually am still interested in buying your software despite your shortsightedness and name calling. Calm down and pay closer attention and you may see that.

[Light]

I'll tell you what Light....Saratoga opens tomorrow.....put your programs top picks up against PACE VIEW'S---EVERDAY I'll have mine up


and please----don't make any excuses

PUT THEM UP OR SHUT UP


anyone wanna bet this blowhard doesn't post anything?

I'm not the one selling anything. When I do decide to sell something, then I will back it up with picks. The picks you have put up have been dismal such as your $1000 and $500 bankrolls that went bust.

[Light]

Why should NorCalGreg be blamed for the "discontinuity" shown by his customers? His customers have paid their money...and they can say whatever they want to say...in whichever manner they want to say it.

And I can say what I want, no? As a potential consumer don't I have the right to question the pink elephant in NCG's room? Thaskalos, I really doubt you buy things you are not familiar with before checking them out.

[ReplayRandall]

And I can say what I want, no? As a potential consumer don't I have the right to question the pink elephant in NCG's room?

You've clearly made your point, Light. Is there something else you wish to say or are you ready to move on?

[Light]

I changed my mind. I'm back, briefly.

Okay, Mister, You get your wish. I doubt it will shut you up.

Greg has no idea yet that I'm doing this. It will be news to him.

I'm going to post plays over the long weekend, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. These are the rules:

1) I'm going to start a new selection thread in "Handicapping." In it will be plays over the long weekend of Friday, Saturday and Sunday. BRIS single-format files will be used with Pace View.

2) I will be using certain tracks and excluding others. That list will be posted before I begin and won't be changed throughout the three days.

3) I will be using one or more "spot plays." The rules for each will be posted before I begin and will not change throughout the three days. All spot plays can be found by looking at the output screen. There won't be any judgement involved.

4) I'll post each day's plays in advance of the first race at the first track. They will NOT take any scratches into account.

In other words, anybody who has a copy of Pace View and the BRIS files can use the rules of the spot plays and come up with the exact same list of plays that I will post. I won't be able to "tighten up" if winning or "plunge" if losing. I don't get to pass on low odds or additional scratches of other horses that may affect the way the race is run. It's a very rigid format that has all the disadvantages that aren't faced in real life.

We'll see how it goes.

Finally, sanity. This is all I was asking for. I followed your picks and the first day's results. 17 picks $34 wagered and a .40c loss. I have 2 impressions of this.

First I don't like the 3-17 win rate. If that $17 horses did not win it would not have been good. Most handicappers cannot handle that low win rate mentally.

Second I was impressed with the place and show spots which made $13 and $9.40. That was in part due to the $17 winner so we'll see how it does in days 2 and 3.

But I have just wanted someone to put up picks like you have so I could get a feel of what this software is doing. This is similar to what NCG did back in March and April that did not come out well. So I wanted to see if the software can do better. I am aware 17 races are almost meaningless to evaluate software.

[Light]

You've clearly made your point, Light. Is there something else you wish to say or are you ready to move on?

Please don't interrupt.

[Light]

If I can make 4% ROI at the end of the month I am happy. I combine that with my rebate money and I make about 10% of what I bet. The way I bet, that smokes and beer money.

I guarantee you wont make 4%. I test methods all the time and if you are only at 4% profit with only 77 races, you will be under in another couple of hundred races if not sooner. To feel any possibility of a positive ROI you would have to be substantially ahead in ROI at this point to handle the ROI killers in the long road ahead.

[Tom]

Well, he's got the balls to post 'em before the race is run.

[Light]

Well, he's got the balls to post 'em before the race is run.

Of course.

[NorCalGreg]

Of course.

Are you still posting under the guise of "I'm considering buying his program?"

You've stated you have NO INTENTION of buying my program. You are the epitome of a troll with a vendetta. I notice you didn't mention my Pace
View picks for Saratoga--you were supposed to post your picks alongside mine.
To no one's surprise--you posted nothing.

I invented the program...Pete is showing a careful, diligent user can use it as a tool to profit . Sure I embellish a little, boast some--but that's how marketing works Can't you just let that go?

[jk3521]

Wouldn't it be something if we could confront RPM about their #^#^#programs?

Greg is one of us, cut him some slack. He is not gouging anyone with the cost of the software. Try and find any RPM software price within $100 of that cost.

I think that he is showing us that handicappers might be delving too far into numbers when all the time the answers might be right in front of us. A $35 dollar program can do as well as a $1500 program day to day. I've said my piece.

[chrisl]

JK. Perfect reply. I have some high dollar programs. I have found myself using Pace View more and more. My other programs are too high maintenance, and always, some feature is not working. I find the simplicity of Pace view to be what I am enjoying right now. My weekly betting budget is finally enjoying
a carry over for once.That high monthly data bill can now be put to my betting budget. Thanks Greg

[mikesal57]

I find the simplicity of Pace view to be what I am enjoying right now. My weekly betting budget is finally enjoying



Yes...a simple program from a simple minded guy....

The best!!

Mike

[cj]

I guarantee you wont make 4%. I test methods all the time and if you are only at 4% profit with only 77 races, you will be under in another couple of hundred races if not sooner. To feel any possibility of a positive ROI you would have to be substantially ahead in ROI at this point to handle the ROI killers in the long road ahead.

I don't see how this has any basis in fact. The best plays stay consistent. They don't start high and drop down which is how I'm reading your post.

There is no guarantee that a 4% profit will drop down. It could even get better. Seventy-seven plays is a very small numbers so really anything could happen.

[Pensacola Pete]

Pete is showing a careful, diligent user can use it as a tool to profit .

Actually, I'm not after a profit. I'm just doing a four-day test as an example of what the program may or may not be able to produce with a mix of higher-percentage plays (play #1) and possible price horses (play #2). Nothing will be proven by the four day workout; it's far too short. I can do 5,000 race samples from HTR, which highlight one factor and a few common-sense filters, that produce a healthy ROI. Use races from another time period, and the ROI goes 20 points the other way. The 80-100 plays that will probably be posted in this test prove noting conclusive, because price horses are highly volatile. A 100-race test was requested, and I have some free time to do it. Users can (and will) draw their own conclusions from the results.

[green80]

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet. I will report every week.




The results from 7/1 to 7/23 are as follows:



22 wins from 52 bets - 42% win percentage

$104 bet and $99.20 $2 win mutual return for about -5% ROI


All the heavy chalk horses have hurt lately. Still just a decent winner from the plus column.

[NorCalGreg]

Yes...a simple program from a simple minded guy....

The best!!

Mike

Would you rather have a program designed by Einstein? He'd have you take wind velocity measurements-- grab a handful of soil and take a reading on the moisture content--call Cratos to ask about the inertia coefficient--enter all that data--THEN START STEP ONE.

[NorCalGreg]

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet. I will report every week.




The results from 7/1 to 7/23 are as follows:



22 wins from 52 bets - 42% win percentage

$104 bet and $99.20 $2 win mutual return for about -5% ROI


Has PV ever done well @ LAD? I don't recall it doing as well there as Delta when the T-breds are running, greenie.

[green80]

Has PV ever done well @ LAD? I don't recall it doing as well there as Delta when the T-breds are running, greenie.

Yes it has at times, runs hot and cold. Lately it has the wins, but horses have not been paying anything. Average PV winner this week was 4.40. Like I said, just one 7 dollar winner from being in the plus column. I will continue tracking for about 100 races and see where we are then.

[NorCalGreg]

Yes it has at times, runs hot and cold. Lately it has the wins, but horses have not been paying anything. Average PV winner this week was 4.40. Like I said, just one 7 dollar winner from being in the plus column. I will continue tracking for about 100 races and see where we are then.

PACE VIEW did well today @ lad---3 for 7 on top picks

[Light]

I don't see how this has any basis in fact. The best plays stay consistent. They don't start high and drop down which is how I'm reading your post.

There is no guarantee that a 4% profit will drop down. It could even get better. Seventy-seven plays is a very small numbers so really anything could happen.

You are mistaken in this case. The typical pattern in a "system" that shows promise, is first a decent ROI. Then, as more races come in with different factors the system cannot accommodate, the ROI goes down. This is what happened here by green80's own words. First the decent ROI:

From my previous post I started tracking Pace-View's best bets at LaD, (since I'm there every day) from July 1. With no handicapping or thinking involved, I will just place a $2 win bet on every PV best Bet.

The results from 7/1 to 7/10 are as follows:
12 wins from 21 bets -57% win percentage

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI. I will continue and see how this plays out longer term if anyone is interested.

Then the inevitable.

Not a great week this week. Totals from 7/1 to 7/17:

17 wins from 37 bets - 46% win percentage

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI

I am not trying to disparage anyone or be negative. I am just being real, w/o hype, smokes or beer.

[Pensacola Pete]

The "law of averages" doesn't turn a positive expectation into a negative expectation. Deviation turns a positive expectation into a temporary negative result.

[Light]

A system, doesn't turn into a "system" unless it first shows promise with a healthy ROI. Otherwise the system is aborted. Then the newly formed system will lose ROI depending on how narrow or wide the system is in its scope of variables. 99.9% of systems will follow the declining ROI pattern because horse racing has so many factors that no system can handle all of them. A good system will "bottom out" and still have a positive ROI.

BTW I appreciate your effort in posting, win or lose.

[cj]

A system, doesn't turn into a "system" unless it first shows promise with a healthy ROI. Otherwise the system is aborted. Then the newly formed system will lose ROI depending on how narrow or wide the system is in its scope of variables. 99.9% of systems will follow the declining ROI pattern because horse racing has so many factors that no system can handle all of them. A good system will "bottom out" and still have a positive ROI.

BTW I appreciate your effort in posting, win or lose.

I guess that depends how you define healthy. If you get a nice rebate finding a system with 4% return is quite healthy IMO if the sample is big. I've had many plays (as I call them) that start big and level out, and others that start promising and actually get better.

[PaceAdvantage]

Great, but the problem is no continuity,ever. Every time someone hits something with the program there's hi five's. But there is a lot of silence in between and we know what that usually means.Now I'm starting to think NCG had you pegged dead-on from the beginning.

[Light]

I guess that depends how you define healthy. If you get a nice rebate finding a system with 4% return is quite healthy IMO if the sample is big.

I agree. There are several known "wales" who make something like +2% to +4% ROi but bet millions. I think the reason they have confidence to bet millions and KNOW they will make 2% to 4% on their money is because their system has had thousands of bets imputed into it and has "bottomed out" with that positive expectancy. But that's for wales. Most "weekend warriors" don't find that too exciting or worth playing for. I make more than that in my mutual funds doing nothing.

[Dave Schwartz]

I agree. There are several known "wales" who make something like +2% to +4% ROi but bet millions. I think the reason they have confidence to bet millions and KNOW they will make 2% to 4% on their money is because their system has had thousands of bets imputed into it and has "bottomed out" with that positive expectancy. But that's for wales. Most "weekend warriors" don't find that too exciting or worth playing for. I make more than that in my mutual funds doing nothing.

Aside from your spelling, you can get 4% annually, while they get 4% 125 times per year (i.e. betting through the bankroll 125 times). It is more than a little different.

[thaskalos]

I make more than that in my mutual funds doing nothing.

The 4% that you make from your mutual funds amounts to just 4% at the end of the year. But the 4% ROI at the track could easily amount to a 100% return at the end of the year...even WITHOUT rebates. If you make 50 bets a week with an expected ROI of +1.04, then you can expect to double your bankroll by year's end...even if you flat-bet. And you can't do that with your mutual funds. That sort of return could be garnered only from your MUTUEL funds.

[Light]

It is incorrect to say that mutual funds only get an annual percentage a year. There is compounding that goes on in mutual funds too.

Mutual funds pay out quarterly dividends and those dividends are then reinvested in the fund. This increases the number of shares you have. The more new shares you own the more new shares you receive during future quarterly dividend payouts.

The fund I use also has a proven track record averaging a 10% annual return for the last 15 years in a row and I have received 10% ROI since my investment.

The problem with betting horse racing is that if you have a system that gives you 4%, you have to be very disciplined. For example, my show betting system gets me 15% ROi. And its for grinders. I find it hard to maintain that discipline a lot of times and deviate with exotics or win bets and down goes the ROI. I suppose if you are a whale, betting huge amounts would be more exciting.

[green80]

The 4% that you make from your mutual funds amounts to just 4% at the end of the year. But the 4% ROI at the track could easily amount to a 100% return at the end of the year...even WITHOUT rebates. If you make 50 bets a week with an expected ROI of +1.04, then you can expect to double your bankroll by year's end...even if you flat-bet. And you can't do that with your mutual funds. That sort of return could be garnered only from your MUTUEL funds..

I usually make 3-4 bets per day X 300 days a year for 900-1200 bets a year. The bigger my bankroll the more my base bet. Give me a steady 4% Roi and it doesn't take long to build a nice bankroll.

[Light]

.
Give me a steady 4% Roi and it doesn't take long to build a nice bankroll.

You can't conclude from 77 races that you are rock solid at 4%. This is one reason why I requested a 100 race test which Pensacola Pete was kind enough to do. Here are the results in his own words:


For the 5-day test run:
Races: 114
Win: 26 (21.0%)
Second: 25
Third: 17 (ITM:59.6%)
Bet: $228.00
Collected: $207.00
Net loss: 21.00 (ROI: 0.907)

You were certainly headed in the same direction.

When I came up with my show betting system,I did a 100 race test with actual money and showed several people the print out from Twinspires. It showed a 100% ROI and a hit rate of 85%. I declared the same thing as Thaskalos. That I was going to be rich because as Thaskalos said, you can make a lot of money compounding a 4% ROI. Imagine what 100% ROI compounding would be. Move over Donald Trump. Well doesn't work as easy as that. That's another story. After 2 years of betting the system, it went down to a 15% ROI and a 65% hit rate. I am assuming it has bottomed out and I can depend on 15% but even now I'm not sure.

So back to pace view. I hope Pensacola Pete's 114 race test run sobers up some of delusions of grandeur about this system. According to NCG, he has sold 150 copies. Yet all I hear is the same few people acting like they struck gold. No words from the silent majority.

The only way you win at horse racing is hard work. A few years ago I went to the NHC championship. I was 10th after day one. I would have been about 5th but they dq'd a $15 winner (plus place money) I had. I don't say this to brag, only to show some credentials. I also had a $50K P6. The only person holding that ticket. So maybe I know something. In other words I'm not some Joe just discrediting people which is not my interest or motivation.

But as I said, its hard work. When I played the NHC and I played my 100 race test of my show system I was so focused. Checking every detail. I was very careful about what I selected. That is the intensity I find I need to reach that level of excellence. I don't reach that level anymore simply because I choose not to. Too stressful. So I play much more casually and get much reduced returns. Ok with me because I don't need the money now like I used to and there are more important things in life.

However the people with "pace view" use their system like a black box on easy street. Underestimating this game. That's one of the major flaws. Another is all the users don't seem to realize that there is a major flaw in the Bris pace ratings with "pace view". I've seen people picking closers as the speed and speed as the closers. That's because Bris doesn't really differentiate when a horse who needs a lone lead gets a big LP from the fact that he just went wire to wire. So he is listed as the best LP. Of course then he gets in a speed duel and cant close, he wilts and you lose because your bet was based on incorrect data.

There is also form cycles "pace view" users do not pay attention to. There were so may odds on horses picked in the 114 race test that were false favorites that finished off the board because their form cycle screamed they would be out of the money.

These are a few reasons why this test run finished in the red. A few simple adjustments, most notably handicapping the selections the program spits out, may have resulted in a 10% positive rather than negative ROI.

Despite this computer age we live in, and I have my own home grown software, I have concluded that you cannot rely on what a computer program puts out because of the thousands of variables in horse racing a computer program cannot cover. Sometimes you are right in overriding the computers selections and sometimes you are wrong. But when you are wrong you need to make a note of it and learn from it. They still have not made a program that can look at all those variables that the human mind can and analyze them. Using the two brains together works best.

[BCOURTNEY]

Does the software accommodate exporting to csv files?

[NorCalGreg]

Does the software accommodate exporting to csv files?

Sorry Courtney, afraid not.

[NorCalGreg]

Pete took your bait and played right into your hands, didn't he Light? And you STILL didn't have to post a single pick from you phantom program.

I still don't know why he would post well over 100 selections in a 5 day period, what was it---110? He says they were his spot plays. Coach posted picks using PACE VIEW yesterday and today---no comment there?

I posted one single PACE VIEW pick yesterday--- No comment on that $15 winner? I posted a pick 4 as my only pace view selection today, with 3 horses in the sequence as suggested win bets--one paid $40.00 to win

I posted 10 PACE VIEW EXACTAS Sunday--40% won with a $1.50+ ROI.

I don't bet 110 races in 5 days...and neither does PETE. The handicappers that know how to use the program know about pace, speed, recency, money management, etc.

The clowns that don't---well, like you, they lack any confidence and bet to show.

Good luck with that 4% mutual fund--if that even exists.

[mjw]

Hello,

I picked up Pace View a couple days ago. Here is my take.

It is a tool.

My handicapping doesn't begin and end with just looking at pace view. I still look at the PPs to credit or discredit horses. If you pick and choose the races you play, I believe both Greg AND Light are correct in saying a positive expectation is achievable.

Pace View:

Does output solid numbers, and
Will point to spot plays.


What it can't do is decipher the data for you or make a decision for you. You need to do that based on the information that the program provides, along with your knowledge of the sport.

I like the program and I am going to add it to my toolbox.

mjw

[NorCalGreg]

Hello,

I picked up Pace View a couple days ago. Here is my take.

It is a tool.

My handicapping doesn't begin and end with just looking at pace view. I still look at the PPs to credit or discredit horses. If you pick and choose the races you play, I believe both Greg AND Light are correct in saying a positive expectation is achievable.

Pace View:

Does output solid numbers, and
Will point to spot plays.


What it can't do is decipher the data for you or make a decision for you. You need to do that based on the information that the program provides, along with your knowledge of the sport.

I like the program and I am going to add it to my toolbox.

mjw


Well said.

[punteray]

MJB

Well said

[NorCalGreg]

MJB

Well said


hahahahah...now I know who you are Ray....seen you around lot's of times

Bishop? That's down in Death Valley isn't it?

[Light]

Pete took your bait and played right into your hands, didn't he Light? And you STILL didn't have to post a single pick from you phantom program.

I still don't know why he would post well over 100 selections in a 5 day period, what was it---110? He says they were his spot plays. Coach posted picks using PACE VIEW yesterday and today---no comment there?

I posted one single PACE VIEW pick yesterday--- No comment on that $15 winner? I posted a pick 4 as my only pace view selection today, with 3 horses in the sequence as suggested win bets--one paid $40.00 to win

I posted 10 PACE VIEW EXACTAS Sunday--40% won with a $1.50+ ROI.

I don't bet 110 races in 5 days...and neither does PETE. The handicappers that know how to use the program know about pace, speed, recency, money management, etc.

The clowns that don't---well, like you, they lack any confidence and bet to show.

Good luck with that 4% mutual fund--if that even exists.


Wow, this is a class hike for you. You didn't call me a blowhard or a troll. Although I have nothing against blowhards or trolls.

I just want to say something about this statement you made

well, like you, they lack any confidence and bet to show.

Here is how naive your statement is. Pensacola Pete played 114 races, $228 in and got back $205. A 10% loss. I also monitored his show betting. He got back $214.80 to show. A loss of only 5.7%! His show betting beat his win betting. So it isn't a matter of "having confidence" and being a macho man and betting to win. Its a matter of being smart.

Look, I see guys racking their brains out, sweating exotics and in the end if they make 10% ROI after 5 hours of exhaustive playing, they are happy. I can play 1 single race and get $3.00 to show. A 50% ROI and I've blown them away in 20 minutes. Its a matter of playing smart. Play with your ego and this game will bury you.

[pandy]

Light, not trying to be a wise guy. Do you only bet to show? If so, do you have a minimum odds requirement or do you just try to find a horse that you think will show?

[Light]

Light, not trying to be a wise guy. Do you only bet to show? If so, do you have a minimum odds requirement or do you just try to find a horse that you think will show?

Theoretically I have separate bankrolls for show betting and the rest. But in the end they are all co mingled after all for one ROI. My best ROI is from show betting. I watch the show pools a lot before betting and really want $2.80 to show as a minimum. If breakage gets me only $2.60 I'll take it. But if I'm looking at the show pool and I can see its going to be $2.60 or less, then I'll pass.

Because I am always watching the show pool, I get many opportunities to see when a false favorite has a lot to show on him or her. So I will take a risk that the favorite will be out and if I am wrong and the favorite comes in, and I only get $2.20 as a result that's OK too. Because many times that payoff is compensated for when the favorites with a lot of show money runs out.

[Light]

I'd like to add that sometimes I use win betting instead of show betting. I will bet 2 or 3 (max) horses in a race. If I can get 40% return minimum from the collective bet, I'll go in that direction in some cases. It's the same as getting $2.80 to show with potential for more.

[NorCalGreg]

"Wow, this is a class hike for you. You didn't call me a blowhard or a troll. Although I have nothing against blowhards or trolls".

LOL.....you aren't going to bait me into giving you the attention you desperately seek.

You are easily the most anti-social person on this forum.
Good luck with that.

[Winger]

Finally, sanity. This is all I was asking for. I followed your picks and the first day's results. 17 picks $34 wagered and a .40c loss. I have 2 impressions of this.

First I don't like the 3-17 win rate. If that $17 horses did not win it would not have been good. Most handicappers cannot handle that low win rate mentally.

Second I was impressed with the place and show spots which made $13 and $9.40. That was in part due to the $17 winner so we'll see how it does in days 2 and 3.

But I have just wanted someone to put up picks like you have so I could get a feel of what this software is doing. This is similar to what NCG did back in March and April that did not come out well. So I wanted to see if the software can do better. I am aware 17 races are almost meaningless to evaluate software.

Light, I already posted a string of 100+ plays with a positive ROI using PaceView.

[Tor Ekman]

Light, I already posted a string of 100+ plays with a positive ROI using PaceView.Seems to me that Light is rather dim.

[whodoyoulike]

Light, I already posted a string of 100+ plays with a positive ROI using PaceView.


And, did you find anything meaningful in your results in helping your handicapping?

I made some suggestions to another poster in his methodology and NCG seemed to get his panties up his crack which I haven't figured out his reasons for being upset since I wasn't criticizing his program.

I think Light has some legit questions / concerns and was trying to determine the best way he could use the program for his use.

[thaskalos]

NorCalGreg thought of a handicapping concept...and he turned it into a piece of computer software which he seeks to sell at a very modest price. Independent tests of a brief nature have been conducted on this software...and the results have predictably proven to be inconclusive; one test showed a profit...while two others showed losses of 10% and 4% respectively. And NorCalGreg has repeatedly stated that his product is a "tool"...which may prove useful when added to the player's existing handicapping arsenal. No-where have I seen Greg claim that his method is a "stand-alone moneymaker at the track"...which is what system-selling shysters have been doing for decades.

So...what seems to be the problem here? Do we really expect NorCalGreg to prove to us conclusively that this system of his is a moneymaker at the track? I bet my bottom dollar that not ever NorCalGreg knows how good this product of his really is. If he really knew that he had a "moneymaker" on his hands...he'd be a fool to sell it even for $3,500.

SO WHAT if it turns out that his system loses 4%-10%? That means that his product still beats the track takeout by a huge margin...without any work done by the user. Is that a small achievement for a $35 price-tag?

[whodoyoulike]

... and the results have predictably proven to be inconclusive; one test showed a profit...while two others showed losses of 10% and 4% respectively. And NorCalGreg has repeatedly stated that his product is a "tool"...which may prove useful when added to the player's existing handicapping arsenal. No-where have I seen Greg claim that his method is a "stand-alone moneymaker at the track"...which is what system-selling shysters have been doing for decades.

So...what seems to be the problem here? ...

You could see these results were going to be inconclusive just from the way these independent reviews were being presented. One of the ways it would have been conclusive would be if the results showed 100% wins or 100% losses. I still viewed Light's concerns as being legit. Instead individuals were name calling with Troll etc., which seems to be a go to response on here when they're just questions.

If it's always been promoted as a "tool" then what's the problem with asking questions to determine if it is appropriate for his use?

The guy is selling a product. He should expect questions and not take them as a personal attack of his product or his character which is just two of the problems which I've noticed with his and others responses. I don't think the price of the product has anything to do with what type of results he's expecting. And, his comment on "Form" is spot on target as a purchase consideration.

[kingfin66]

"Wow, this is a class hike for you. You didn't call me a blowhard or a troll. Although I have nothing against blowhards or trolls".

LOL.....you aren't going to bait me into giving you the attention you desperately seek.

You are easily the most anti-social person on this forum.
Good luck with that.

That is a rough thing to say. I have to disagree. Not even close.

[kingfin66]

NorCalGreg thought of a handicapping concept...and he turned it into a piece of computer software which he seeks to sell at a very modest price. Independent tests of a brief nature have been conducted on this software...and the results have predictably proven to be inconclusive; one test showed a profit...while two others showed losses of 10% and 4% respectively. And NorCalGreg has repeatedly stated that his product is a "tool"...which may prove useful when added to the player's existing handicapping arsenal. No-where have I seen Greg claim that his method is a "stand-alone moneymaker at the track"...which is what system-selling shysters have been doing for decades.

So...what seems to be the problem here? Do we really expect NorCalGreg to prove to us conclusively that this system of his is a moneymaker at the track? I bet my bottom dollar that not ever NorCalGreg knows how good this product of his really is. If he really knew that he had a "moneymaker" on his hands...he'd be a fool to sell it even for $3,500.

SO WHAT if it turns out that his system loses 4%-10%? That means that his product still beats the track takeout by a huge margin...without any work done by the user. Is that a small achievement for a $35 price-tag?

For whatever reason, likely personalities being involved, Greg's program is being held to a much, much higher standard than any other software I have seen discussed on this forum.

[Winger]

You could see these results were going to be inconclusive just from the way these independent reviews were being presented. One of the ways it would have been conclusive would be if the results showed 100% wins or 100% losses. I still viewed Light's concerns as being legit. Instead individuals were name calling with Troll etc., which seems to be a go to response on here when they're just questions.

If it's always been promoted as a "tool" then what's the problem with asking questions to determine if it is appropriate for his use?

The guy is selling a product. He should expect questions and not take them as a personal attack of his product or his character which is just two of the problems which I've noticed with his and others responses. I don't think the price of the product has anything to do with what type of results he's expecting. And, his comment on "Form" is spot on target as a purchase consideration.

Light's first post about PaceView didn't question anything. It was explaining why he wasn't a customer. It basically boiled down to that he saw Greg post several spot-play methods that were not successful. Those were not from PaceView, they were actually different tests Greg was performing while he was trying to build PaceView. If he was genuine about being a potential customer, he would've started the conversation from a more questioning perspective. However, he said he wanted to see someone post 100 plays with a positive ROI. I did it, and he has refused to acknowledge it. I did it blindly with the first method I attempted after downloading the program.

[Winger]

And, did you find anything meaningful in your results in helping your handicapping?

I made some suggestions to another poster in his methodology and NCG seemed to get his panties up his crack which I haven't figured out his reasons for being upset since I wasn't criticizing his program.

I think Light has some legit questions / concerns and was trying to determine the best way he could use the program for his use.

I took a method of mine, and I only played the horses if they were the top ranked PaceView pick for that race. My method, stand-alone, produced a negative ROI over the same time period. So yes, I did find something meaningful. Pace View enhanced my handicapping.

[thaskalos]

You could see these results were going to be inconclusive just from the way these independent reviews were being presented. One of the ways it would have been conclusive would be if the results showed 100% wins or 100% losses. I still viewed Light's concerns as being legit. Instead individuals were name calling with Troll etc., which seems to be a go to response on here when they're just questions.

If it's always been promoted as a "tool" then what's the problem with asking questions to determine if it is appropriate for his use?

The guy is selling a product. He should expect questions and not take them as a personal attack of his product or his character which is just two of the problems which I've noticed with his and others responses. I don't think the price of the product has anything to do with what type of results he's expecting. And, his comment on "Form" is spot on target as a purchase consideration.

Questions like WHAT?

Questions like the ones posed to him by EMD4ME...where he was asking him if "Pace View" would have been able to spot some obscure horse that EMD had noticed because it was "strangled" three starts ago by a thieving jockey? Did NorCalGreg ever claim that his method would scan every race in the horse's pps looking for peculiarities and questionable rides? Did NorCalGreg ever claim that his method was more accurate than EMD4ME is as a handicapper? Of course not.

Light wants to know if Greg's system is a "winning method" or not. Does he honestly think that NorCalGreg KNOWS if his method is a winner or not? I bet that Greg has no IDEA. It takes thousands of races to discover whether a method has any real merit or not...and even then it can't be readily assumed that this "merit" will project out into the future.

After he was grilled like a murder suspect...poor Greg finally threw his arms up and declared: "What do you guys want me to do...say that I am a fraud and that my product is a piece of junk? It's a handicapping TOOL...and it could help your handicapping process".

What more do you guys want him to say?

[Winger]

Greg, can Pace View read the Jockey's mind while it is watching replays and taking trip notes?

[NorCalGreg]

Greg, can Pace View read the Jockey's mind while it is watching replays and taking trip notes?

you mean........at the same time???

[Winger]

you mean........at the same time???

Yes, but for a future race.

[NorCalGreg]

:D Well Winger I always believe in safety first, so had them add in an emergency defibrillator/brain activity monitor. Just plugs right in....

We thought it didn't work---we tested it out on WHODO....darn thing didn't register at all.

We accidentally set the probes onto a wooden table--thing lit up like a christmas tree!!!!

[Light]

Light, I already posted a string of 100+ plays with a positive ROI using PaceView.

Can you give me the link? I have looked at your plays in the past and put them on an Excel sheet and they were in the red.

[Light]

NorCalGreg thought of a handicapping concept...and he turned it into a piece of computer software which he seeks to sell at a very modest price. Independent tests of a brief nature have been conducted on this software...and the results have predictably proven to be inconclusive; one test showed a profit...while two others showed losses of 10% and 4% respectively. And NorCalGreg has repeatedly stated that his product is a "tool"...which may prove useful when added to the player's existing handicapping arsenal. No-where have I seen Greg claim that his method is a "stand-alone moneymaker at the track"...which is what system-selling shysters have been doing for decades.

So...what seems to be the problem here? Do we really expect NorCalGreg to prove to us conclusively that this system of his is a moneymaker at the track? I bet my bottom dollar that not ever NorCalGreg knows how good this product of his really is. If he really knew that he had a "moneymaker" on his hands...he'd be a fool to sell it even for $3,500.

SO WHAT if it turns out that his system loses 4%-10%? That means that his product still beats the track takeout by a huge margin...without any work done by the user. Is that a small achievement for a $35 price-tag?

Pretty lame defense. You are basically saying anyone can make a system, then claim its a "tool" to get off the hook of it producing a negative ROI. Meanwhile the seller makes money off a sub par product. I wouldn't defend that.

[Light]

The guy is selling a product. He should expect questions and not take them as a personal attack of his product or his character which is just two of the problems which I've noticed with his and others responses.

Exactly. Imagine if every consumer who walked into a store and asked questions about a product were treated as rudely or stupidly as NCG has of me. They would all be out of business.

[NorCalGreg]

IF YOU HAVEN'T YET RECEIVED YOUR PACE VIEW VERSION 10.4

PLEASE E-MAIL ME @ NORCALGREG@USA.COM

I'LL GET IT OUT TO YOU VIA LINK ASAP

ALL NEW CUSTOMERS WILL OF COURSE, GET VERSION 10.4


COUPLE OF SLICKY BOYS THOUGHT THEY COULD JUST E-MAIL OL' NOR CAL

AND SAY THEY NEED THE UPDATE HAHA NICE TRY :D

I DO HAVE MY LIST--NCG

[thaskalos]

Pretty lame defense. You are basically saying anyone can make a system, then claim its a "tool" to get off the hook of it producing a negative ROI. Meanwhile the seller makes money off a sub par product. I wouldn't defend that.

Can you point me to a post where NorCalGreg presents his system as a "positive ROI" method? Are you accusing Greg of "false advertising" here? Several people have touted their wares right here on this very site...and they have stated that their offerings were "WINNING METHODS". They were exaggerating, of course...and no one ever called them up on it. Why is NorCalGreg deserving of this hostile treatment...when he himself has never asserted that his method was a "proven winner", to begin with?

He supplied the method to several members here...and he asked them to run independent tests, and publicly report the results right here on this board. Doesn't that count for something, in your view?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Light
Pretty lame defense. You are basically saying anyone can make a system, then claim its a "tool" to get off the hook of it producing a negative ROI. Meanwhile the seller makes money off a sub par product. I wouldn't defend that.


And yet none of then are complaining, only YOU , who did not buy it.

[whodoyoulike]

:D Well Winger I always believe in safety first, so had them add in an emergency defibrillator/brain activity monitor. Just plugs right in....

We thought it didn't work---we tested it out on WHODO....darn thing didn't register at all.

We accidentally set the probes onto a wooden table--thing lit up like a christmas tree!!!!

Again, I haven't criticized your program or your handicapping skills and yet you take comments about your program as a personal insult. So, I guess I'll be taking my gloves off in the future.

Btw, you apparently don't realize that what you can do with paper & pencil can probably be done with a computer and vice versa but you're smart enough to realize something like that even though you claimed you don't have the resources to figure it out. But, maybe I'm giving you way more credit than you deserve because the resource is really just using your brains.

[Light]

Can you point me to a post where NorCalGreg presents his system as a "positive ROI" method?

Isn't that the implication when someone sells you handicapping software? Nobody buys "tools" to get negative ROI's. They can do that w/o any help.
Besides, why does he act so defensively with personal insults when I ask about his software in any way other than stroking his ego.


Are you accusing Greg of "false advertising" here?

Of course not. But he and others are hyping his program and when you do that it's fair game that someone is going to say put up or shut up.

I don't see other creators of software acting so immaturely as he does.

He supplied the method to several members here...and he asked them to run independent tests, and publicly report the results right here on this board. Doesn't that count for something, in your view?

Yes it does. But since the results were not in his favor, he continues with his insults. All he has shown me so far is a program that cannot turn a profit. If he did not talk crap and accepted what has been presented so far as a sub par ROI by the people testing his software, there would be no problem. But this guy keeps talking like his program is all that. And if I say, no that hasn't been proved from his selections, or several other peoples selections, because none of those selections has shown a profit, he flips out. That's his problem. He needs help. I'm simply inquiring on the facts. I'm not interested in his hype.

[ebcorde]

How did your stuff do at Saratoga today? I have a hunch you were happy.
Those early pace numbers were jamming today.

[Light]

And yet none of then are complaining, only YOU , who did not buy it.



I'm not complaining. NCG is the one complaining because I am asking him questions about his product.

[MONEY]

I'm not complaining. NCG is the one complaining because I am asking him questions about his product.

What I see about Pace View Pro from looking at the screenshots that have been posted, is that Pace View shows multiple angles in one display.

It has,
Power
E1
E2
Late
Trainer/Jockey
Speed
Prime Power

The odds are that if you don't find the winner in one angle, you will find it in another of the angles.
Most other handicapping software do the same thing, but for much more money.

The most important thing about Pace View is that the people that paid for it are happy with the product.

[Light]

Just to be clear, this is a summary of what happened.

I saw the hype around NCG's program and was curious. Rather than ask him questions I went through his long thread from the beginning, and saw him posting picks. He had 3 separate bankrolls go bust. $1000,and $500 twice.

I brought this up and that's when NCG began attacking me as a troll, blowhard etc. Attacking me for posting results of his picks! So I said why don't you post 100 picks and shut me up. Pensicola Pete took up the suggestion with confidence and posted 114 picks for a 10% losing ROI. Of course I was again the "bad guy" for this outcome.

Previously green80 had posted 77 picks for a +4% ROI. But this ROI was in a free fall from much higher.

Previous to that I had looked at Winger's picks which I have never mentioned and they were over 100 picks in the red.

So I have probably over 300 picks with the system in the red in my Excel spreadsheets. This is all I am saying. Be honest and accept the facts. Instead I am called a troll and a blowhard for stating facts put out by the person calling me names. Very pathetic and hypocritical.

So how is one supposed to use the method to make money? This is my question. Apparently 4 people including the programmer do not know.

I know it is very difficult to make a positive ROI in this game. And if NCG's program can't, so what. But it does get under my skin when someone is disingenuous and touting their software as good as any when there is hard evidence to the contrary from the guy himself.

Yes I know, all software is a tool. Then say so and STFU. Stop talking like you are making money with it. Or else post another 100 and shut me up. You can keep going till you finally make a decent profit, not 4% which was evaporating fast. I don't care how long it takes.

Then you can possibly answer my question as to HOW you use the program to be profitable. Isn't this THE first and basic question you would ask anyone who produces software for gambling purposes.

[NorCalGreg]

How did your stuff do at Saratoga today? I have a hunch you were happy.
Those early pace numbers were jamming today.

Ironic you happen to mention that, eb....the biggest score at Sar today was a Turf Route --a customer pointed out he played the top power number because it had a big late Power Advantage--and boxed the top two in the exacta--nice score

[ebcorde]

Ironic you happen to mention that, eb....the biggest score at Sar today was a Turf Route --a customer pointed out he played the top power number because it had a big late Power Advantage--and boxed the top two in the exacta--nice score


yeah on those longer routes always the late pace I prefer above 9f/
for sprints I like below 6f then I can key on top early.

it's easier. to handicap IMHO


for in between distances 6.0-9.0 I like the huge 6f pace figure Horses
love those guys

else skip the race.

[Winger]

Just to be clear, this is a summary of what happened.

I saw the hype around NCG's program and was curious. Rather than ask him questions I went through his long thread from the beginning, and saw him posting picks. He had 3 separate bankrolls go bust. $1000,and $500 twice.

I brought this up and that's when NCG began attacking me as a troll, blowhard etc. Attacking me for posting results of his picks! So I said why don't you post 100 picks and shut me up. Pensicola Pete took up the suggestion with confidence and posted 114 picks for a 10% losing ROI. Of course I was again the "bad guy" for this outcome.

Previously green80 had posted 77 picks for a +4% ROI. But this ROI was in a free fall from much higher.

Previous to that I had looked at Winger's picks which I have never mentioned and they were over 100 picks in the red.

So I have probably over 300 picks with the system in the red in my Excel spreadsheets. This is all I am saying. Be honest and accept the facts. Instead I am called a troll and a blowhard for stating facts put out by the person calling me names. Very pathetic and hypocritical.

So how is one supposed to use the method to make money? This is my question. Apparently 4 people including the programmer do not know.

I know it is very difficult to make a positive ROI in this game. And if NCG's program can't, so what. But it does get under my skin when someone is disingenuous and touting their software as good as any when there is hard evidence to the contrary from the guy himself.

Yes I know, all software is a tool. Then say so and STFU. Stop talking like you are making money with it. Or else post another 100 and shut me up. You can keep going till you finally make a decent profit, not 4% which was evaporating fast. I don't care how long it takes.

Then you can possibly answer my question as to HOW you use the program to be profitable. Isn't this THE first and basic question you would ask anyone who produces software for gambling purposes.


So now, a profit doesn't mean anything if it is "Evaporating fast". The method I posted had 5 days with positive ROI, 2 days with a negative ROI, an overall 1.04 ROI with a near 50% hit rate. I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it, and I certainly didn't do any testing before hand. The only point I cared to make was that yes, you can use his program to enhance your handicapping. It is not a black box that will tell you which horses to bet. If you bet every one of his selections, you will probably have a negative ROI. However, maybe one of his spot plays will make you see something you didn't see in a horse to include it in your Pick 4. Maybe his power numbers will help you validate a key horse in a superfecta, or maybe it will help you realize that your key horse isn't as strong as you thought. I'm not sure what you think Greg claimed about his program that it doesn't meet his claims It is possible to use his program to make your own handicapping better, but it is not a stand-alone program. If you are looking for someone to tell you which horses to bet to achieve a positive ROI, you're never going to be satisfied. You have to do some of the work on your own.

[pandy]

So now, a profit doesn't mean anything if it is "Evaporating fast". The method I posted had 5 days with positive ROI, 2 days with a negative ROI, an overall 1.04 ROI with a near 50% hit rate. I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it, and I certainly didn't do any testing before hand. The only point I cared to make was that yes, you can use his program to enhance your handicapping. It is not a black box that will tell you which horses to bet. If you bet every one of his selections, you will probably have a negative ROI. However, maybe one of his spot plays will make you see something you didn't see in a horse to include it in your Pick 4. Maybe his power numbers will help you validate a key horse in a superfecta, or maybe it will help you realize that your key horse isn't as strong as you thought. I'm not sure what you think Greg claimed about his program that it doesn't meet his claims It is possible to use his program to make your own handicapping better, but it is not a stand-alone program. If you are looking for someone to tell you which horses to bet to achieve a positive ROI, you're never going to be satisfied. You have to do some of the work on your own.


Good analysis, you are exactly right.

[biggestal99]

So how is one supposed to use the method to make money? This is my question. Apparently 4 people including the programmer do not know.



Thats an easy one. Lay low priced horses with low POWR numbers.

easy money. But thats only one way. Look its not a black box. but the POWR numbers are extremely accurate.

a little handicapping smarts plus pace view equals cash.

its a tool.

Just like a hammer.

Give a hammer to a chimp and ask him to build something.

now give the same hammer to a carpenter and ask him to build something

Pace view is a one tool in the handicapping arsenal.

BTW I am a carpenter. :-)

Allan

[green80]

Where can you lay these horses?

[upthecreek]

Where can you lay these horses?
NJ on Betfair Exchange I don't know where else

[biggestal99]

tomorrows lays at Monmouth using PV (hopefully the races stay on turf)

race1-6
race2-3
race3-6
race4-11
race5-2
race6-6
race7-6
race8-3
race9-4
race10-3

a perfect 10 for 10 losers (gulp I hope)

I will post the results when I get back from the track tomorrow.

Allan

[railbird]

Seven times I tried to buy PACE VIEW through PAYPAL but could not , even with a rep on the line who determined it was the webpage at fault . I wrote to NCG explaining the problem . Well cudos to NCG who extended credit to a complete stranger for PACE VIEW .
Now that I had time to inspect the program I would not have charged 35.bucks this has the potential to rival rpm at 100 plus any day of the week this is just the thing for us weekend warriors. well thanks again NCG

[green80]

NJ on Betfair Exchange I don't know where else

Open to NJ residents only?

[upthecreek]

Open to NJ residents only?

Yes you must be a NJ resident and physically in NJ when wagering

[Light]

So now, a profit doesn't mean anything if it is "Evaporating fast".

Correct. I already explained this before in this thread. This was a quote from green80



$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI.

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI

Obviously green80 knew where this was going and stopped the experiment in order to avoid going in the red.

The method I posted had 5 days with positive ROI, 2 days with a negative ROI, an overall 1.04 ROI with a near 50% hit rate.

I asked you awhile ago for a link to this. You did not provide one. But I have checked your plays in the past and they are all in the red.

I'm not sure what you think Greg claimed about his program that it doesn't meet his claims

I am claiming that all the hoopla about the program having this or that winner is cherry picking hype and red boarding. When put to the test neither you, him or two others could replicate your hoopla.

My system and every system on the planet can make the same claims of having this or that. But when put to the test, they cannot reproduce the hype because it is cherry picking after the race and losses are not calculated into a total net amount.

[Light]

Thats an easy one. Lay low priced horses with low POWR numbers.

easy money. But thats only one way. Look its not a black box. but the POWR numbers are extremely accurate.

Allan

Easy money? Why don't you give it a shot and post 100 plays and show me how easy it is.

But before you do that, check out the Bris prime power numbers and compare them to Greg's program. In the course of checking selections by the fab 4, I noticed those fantastic Greg power numbers correlate to the Bris Prime power numbers which we all know do not make a flat bet profit.

The first question I ever asked Greg before he became unhinged was what difference are your numbers from the Bris summary page. He skirted the issue by answering the question with a testimonial of a satisfied customer. That's when I knew there was something fishy here. That's when I knew I couldn't get a straight answer from this guy and had to do my own research. That's when I found very poor results posted by him in his huge thread.

Also for anyone who wants to have a superior and free system to his, just use the Bris summary page. It's free and gives you not only all the numbers Greg's program gives you but more data such as RR, average class, etc. that his program does not. It also lists the racing styles of all the horses at a glance. So if a horse has the highest E his program will pick the horse as a "best bet" play. But you can easily see the contradiction if you look at the horses racing style in the Bris summary page, and if it is a "P" or "S" designation then you are being misled. This is a major flaw in his program I have mentioned before. His program is blind in its pace numbers and just spits them out.

On the weekends, I play 10- 15 tracks and don't pay a dime and get more info than what his program gives according to the screen shots I've seen of his program. If I used his program, I would get less info and would have to pay $10-$15 each day on the weekend. So his program may only cost $35, but you pay for the PP's and are getting and inferior product. For a better product you don't pay $35 nor the price of the data files.

[ReplayRandall]

Also for anyone who wants to have a superior and free system to his, just use the Bris summary page.

Prove what you've stated.....

[Light]

Prove what you've stated.....

Consider the cost of operating his system to mine for starters.

The total number of tracks I will DL per weekend will be conservatively 25. Then the weekdays maybe 10 total. So 35 PP's per week. 35x 52 = $1820 Per year.

It will cost $1820 per year to use Greg's program My system, costs $0. So a Greg user has to win $2000 in profits just to break even with me. Zero chance he will beat me in ROI.

[green80]

Quote:

$42 bet and $59.40 $2 win mutual return for about a 42% ROI.

$74 bet and $77.20 $2 win mutual return for about 4% ROI


Obviously green80 knew where this was going and stopped the experiment in order to avoid going in the red.

Light,

I have not stopped, I am still tracking and will report again this weekend.

With all the response, somebody other than me must like this program.

I am just tracking the best bets as they are shown by the program. However I am doing my own handicapping and filtering these somewhat for my own wagers and have a much higher ROI. I use pace View to narrow the field and then I select the PV horses that I like to bet. It cuts my handicapping time 90%. Kind of like a carpenter using a power saw, I can get the job done either way, just one is faster.

[TJC]

That is incorrect.

I use Bris Multicaps files and am charged $59.95 per month for unlimited downloads for all tracks per month. These files can be used with the PaceView software.

That is a yearly total of $719.40 not $1820.00.

[ReplayRandall]

Consider the cost of operating his system to mine for starters.

The total number of tracks I will DL per weekend will be conservatively 25. Then the weekdays maybe 10 total. So 35 PP's per week. 35x 52 = $1820 Per year.

It will cost $1820 per year to use Greg's program My system, costs $0. So a Greg user has to win $2000 in profits just to break even with me. Zero chance he will beat me in ROI.

So...I come back 8 hours later to find you still haven't answered my question:

Originally Posted by Light
Also for anyone who wants to have a superior and free system to his, just use the Bris summary page.

Do you understand what I'm asking you for?.....Prove that YOU have a superior system to PaceView, and I mean with examples, not rhetoric.

[NorCalGreg]

Easy money? Why don't you give it a shot and post 100 plays and show me how easy it is.

But before you do that, check out the Bris prime power numbers and compare them to Greg's program. In the course of checking selections by the fab 4, I noticed those fantastic Greg power numbers correlate to the Bris Prime power numbers which we all know do not make a flat bet profit.

The first question I ever asked Greg before he became unhinged was what difference are your numbers from the Bris summary page. He skirted the issue by answering the question with a testimonial of a satisfied customer. That's when I knew there was something fishy here. That's when I knew I couldn't get a straight answer from this guy and had to do my own research. That's when I found very poor results posted by him in his huge thread.

Also for anyone who wants to have a superior and free system to his, just use the Bris summary page. It's free and gives you not only all the numbers Greg's program gives you but more data such as RR, average class, etc. that his program does not. It also lists the racing styles of all the horses at a glance. So if a horse has the highest E his program will pick the horse as a "best bet" play. But you can easily see the contradiction if you look at the horses racing style in the Bris summary page, and if it is a "P" or "S" designation then you are being misled. This is a major flaw in his program I have mentioned before. His program is blind in its pace numbers and just spits them out.

On the weekends, I play 10- 15 tracks and don't pay a dime and get more info than what his program gives according to the screen shots I've seen of his program. If I used his program, I would get less info and would have to pay $10-$15 each day on the weekend. So his program may only cost $35, but you pay for the PP's and are getting and inferior product. For a better product you don't pay $35 nor the price of the data files.

Do you realize your special "trolling" ...and I'm actually being kind here...it's become an obsession with you, really...is almost reached viral proportions. I get PM's E-mail, mentioning you daily, I swear.

But please don't stop! Look at the page views! I wasted my money advertising ---I have YOU. You've singlehanded brought PA Mike,CJ, Tom, Randall, Pete, Winger, mikesal, green80, big Al and the most popular poster on here in THASK...as well as one of the most controversial figures in EBCORDE....all to this PACE VIEW thread.

People want to know what the heck is going on here! They're buying my program in record numbers. You all know I appreciate your business--I tell every single customer that. The program is basically an easy sell---the hard part is getting the word out.

Folks--this wasn't staged in any way---"Light" really is a troll---honest. I didn't ask him to do this--he did it on his own, all by himself. He can't really afford a program--or a bet..or a bris summary, for that matter--but we can buy this man a dinner for all he's done.

Thank you so much Light. You are a rare troll ---with some USE! Keep up the good work and keep my program on top of the reading list here on Pace Advantage. Who knows...maybe Thask or Ebcorde or Randall will pay us another visit----those guys are like rock stars around here.
Love,

-NCG

[timtam]

Can someone tell me how I can print the pace-view pages on my computer.

I've been writing the numbers by hand and taking to OTB on top of being

cumbersome I make plenty of mistakes and get the columns wrong.

I've noticed Coach uses paint but how do you use that :confused:

[NorCalGreg]

Can someone tell me how I can print the pace-view pages on my computer.

I've been writing the numbers by hand and taking to OTB on top of being

cumbersome I make plenty of mistakes and get the columns wrong.

I've noticed Coach uses paint but how do you use that :confused:

Amost every software program requires some computer skills---this one more so, being a very basic no-frills program.

If you have a page in mind you would like to print out--on your keyboard is a "print screen" key. If you have a basic windows comp, it came with a Windows PaintShop program: double click on the Paint Icon to open that up.

Now go back to your Pace View Page you want to print, hold down the Ctrl button and hit the "print screen" button.

Click "paste" into PAINT SHOP...there's your page---you can edit it, print it.

I just did that right now with this Pace advantage page in two seconds:

[ebcorde]

Easy money? Why don't you give it a shot and post 100 plays and show me how easy it is.

But before you do that, check out the Bris prime power numbers and compare them to Greg's program. In the course of checking selections by the fab 4, I noticed those fantastic Greg power numbers correlate to the Bris Prime power numbers which we all know do not make a flat bet profit.

The first question I ever asked Greg before he became unhinged was what difference are your numbers from the Bris summary page. He skirted the issue by answering the question with a testimonial of a satisfied customer. That's when I knew there was something fishy here. That's when I knew I couldn't get a straight answer from this guy and had to do my own research. That's when I found very poor results posted by him in his huge thread.

Also for anyone who wants to have a superior and free system to his, just use the Bris summary page. It's free and gives you not only all the numbers Greg's program gives you but more data such as RR, average class, etc. that his program does not. It also lists the racing styles of all the horses at a glance. So if a horse has the highest E his program will pick the horse as a "best bet" play. But you can easily see the contradiction if you look at the horses racing style in the Bris summary page, and if it is a "P" or "S" designation then you are being misled. This is a major flaw in his program I have mentioned before. His program is blind in its pace numbers and just spits them out.

On the weekends, I play 10- 15 tracks and don't pay a dime and get more info than what his program gives according to the screen shots I've seen of his program. If I used his program, I would get less info and would have to pay $10-$15 each day on the weekend. So his program may only cost $35, but you pay for the PP's and are getting and inferior product. For a better product you don't pay $35 nor the price of the data files.



On the weekends, I play 10- 15 tracks and don't pay a dime and get more info than what his program gives according to the screen shots I've seen of his program. If I used his program, I would get less info and would have to pay $10-$15 each day on the weekend. So his program may only cost $35, but you pay for the PP's and are getting and inferior product. For a better product you don't pay $35 nor the price of the data files.


and you don't pay a dime for information?

[Light]

So...I come back 8 hours later to find you still haven't answered my question:

Do you understand what I'm asking you for?.....Prove that YOU have a superior system to PaceView, and I mean with examples, not rhetoric.
[/i]

First, I already mentioned the operating expenses of PV. Some people say the data files can be had for cheaper if you get an unlimited plan. OK. They are still considerably behind me, a successful NHC player, when they start. Making up $800 or $1500 (depending who you believe on cost of unlimited PP's) on another handicapper is not easy in a contest. Almost impossible. Especially using a program created by someone who seems to have an 8th grade command of the English language.

Second, what PV does is list data from the Bris PP's. This is the same thing the Bris summary (my method) already does. In Bris summary, the data is already there for you in chronological order of various categories, many of which are not available in PV. Pandy has several systems and books based on the Bris summary which describes various methods to apply for profit using the data from the Bris summary page. My own handicapping software has been doing the same thing as PV since its inception in 2000. Listing E2,Lp, PP,etc. Any programmer can do that. Except my program actually expands on that on that basic data, PV's doesn't, that's why its $35.

Third, and this will answer your question, there actually is no system with PV. Its all over the place. Oh look, he won because highest E1,E2 or best LP. Or look, he won with best "power number". How long have these guys been playing the races? Like 2 days? The trick is to declare what factor will win BEFORE the races. That randomness has never shown to make a profit since dinosaurs ruled the world. I assume the people who posted 100 or so plays are staying with a specific angle applied to PV. My program allows me to database angles and I can tell you there is no mechanical angle that can be used as a black box and make a profit. This is why nobody using PV has been able to tell me how to make money with it. Then they have to acquiesce that it is a tool. Then back to square one as we go round and round as they start hollering again , look I had this or that. Oh really, does that work consistently....

I am an unconventional player. If I was to post 100 plays it would be to show. And it would take a while. Today I prefer my show method over my win method system from 2000. I know my show system will make a profit because I get 15% minimum profit using this method since I developed it 2years ago. I use several categories from the Bris summary to get the contenders. That takes 1 minute. That's it as far as the mechanical systematic approach.Then I only focus on these horses and actually look at their form. Now there are more rules those horses have to pass mainly on form and form cycles that cannot be completely programed, so I have to look. This is why I DL so many forms. Sometimes I cannot find one play from a whole card at one track.

Finally, there is nothing to gain for me by posting picks. Ego satisfaction is NOT my thing. In fact I know it is the most destructive factor to a gamblers ROI. If you want to pay me to put up plays I will, otherwise I get nothing for my time. If I succeeded with a good ROI, the NCG crowd will just shrug it off anyways as 'luck" or be in denial as they are right now about their losing ways. They don't want to see me post winning plays, believe me. They hate me. It's a lose, lose position for me unless I am financially compensated for a useless endeavor.

[NorCalGreg]

That is incorrect.

I use Bris Multicaps files and am charged $59.95 per month for unlimited downloads for all tracks per month. These files can be used with the PaceView software.

That is a yearly total of $719.40 not $1820.00.


That is an outstanding deal on those Multicaps, TJ

[pandy]

That is an outstanding deal on those Multicaps, TJ


He was probably grandfathered in from the old Procaps, or whatever it was called.

[ebcorde]

First, I already mentioned the operating expenses of PV. Some people say the data files can be had for cheaper if you get an unlimited plan. OK. They are still considerably behind me, a successful NHC player, when they start. Making up $800 or $1500 (depending who you believe on cost of unlimited PP's) on another handicapper is not easy in a contest. Almost impossible. Especially using a program created by someone who seems to have an 8th grade command of the English language.

Second, what PV does is list data from the Bris PP's. This is the same thing the Bris summary (my method) already does. In Bris summary, the data is already there for you in chronological order of various categories, many of which are not available in PV. Pandy has several systems and books based on the Bris summary which describes various methods to apply for profit using the data from the Bris summary page. My own handicapping software has been doing the same thing as PV since its inception in 2000. Listing E2,Lp, PP,etc. Any programmer can do that. Except my program actually expands on that on that basic data, PV's doesn't, that's why its $35.

Third, and this will answer your question, there actually is no system with PV. Its all over the place. Oh look, he won because highest E1,E2 or best LP. Or look, he won with best "power number". How long have these guys been playing the races? Like 2 days? The trick is to declare what factor will win BEFORE the races. That randomness has never shown to make a profit since dinosaurs ruled the world. I assume the people who posted 100 or so plays are staying with a specific angle applied to PV. My program allows me to database angles and I can tell you there is no mechanical angle that can be used as a black box and make a profit. This is why nobody using PV has been able to tell me how to make money with it. Then they have to acquiesce that it is a tool. Then back to square one as we go round and round as they start hollering again , look I had this or that. Oh really, does that work consistently....

I am an unconventional player. If I was to post 100 plays it would be to show. And it would take a while. Today I prefer my show method over my win method system from 2000. I know my show system will make a profit because I get 15% minimum profit using this method since I developed it 2years ago. I use several categories from the Bris summary to get the contenders. That takes 1 minute. That's it as far as the mechanical systematic approach.Then I only focus on these horses and actually look at their form. Now there are more rules those horses have to pass mainly on form and form cycles that cannot be completely programed, so I have to look. This is why I DL so many forms. Sometimes I cannot find one play from a whole card at one track.

Finally, there is nothing to gain for me by posting picks. Ego satisfaction is NOT my thing. In fact I know it is the most destructive factor to a gamblers ROI. If you want to pay me to put up plays I will, otherwise I get nothing for my time. If I succeeded with a good ROI, the NCG crowd will just shrug it off anyways as 'luck" or be in denial as they are right now about their losing ways. They don't want to see me post winning plays, believe me. They hate me. It's a lose, lose position for me unless I am financially compensated for a useless endeavor.

Bris PP's are free but you have to bet, so you are paying. playing 10-15 tracks , minimum 10-15 bets. Unless you're using CPD.

what did you expect from NCG? Bris has PP flaws. I use Bris files too I do so much better than their PP's. Bris Summary page is deceptive. too many N/A's. neve ran on Turf or the distance. And they impose their own rules.
their own view. Seems like NCG gives you the ability to modify the view too.

[cj]

Bris PP's are free but you have to bet, so you are paying. playing 10-15 tracks , minimum 10-15 bets. Unless you're using CPD.

what did you expect from NCG? Bris has PP flaws. I use Bris files too I do so much better than their PP's. Bris Summary page is deceptive. too many N/A's. neve ran on Turf or the distance. And they impose their own rules.
their own view. Seems like NCG gives you the ability to modify the view too.

BRIS PPs are free in PDF format when you bet with Twin Spires, but you can't use those in software. The Single/Multi files that can be used with software are never free to my knowledge.

[Speed Figure]

My own handicapping software has been doing the same thing as PV since its inception in 2000. Listing E2,Lp, PP,etc. Any programmer can do that. Except my program actually expands on that on that basic data, PV's doesn't, that's why its $35.

My program allows me to database angles and I can tell you there is no mechanical angle that can be used as a black box and make a profit. This is why nobody using PV has been able to tell me how to make money with it. Then they have to acquiesce that it is a tool. Then back to square one as we go round and round as they start hollering again , look I had this or that. Oh really, does that work consistently....

Would you care to post any picks from your software? you keep talking about how great it is, but you have NEVER SHOWED ONE SCREEN SHOT OF IT HANDICAPPING A RACE! you love talking a lot of $hit about other people's programs. If your software is so great, handicap a race with it! I'm really sick & tired of you talking about your wanna be software that you've NEVER PROVEN THAT YOU HAVE!

[ebcorde]

BRIS PPs are free in PDF format when you bet with Twin Spires, but you can't use those in software. The Single/Multi files that can be used with software are never free to my knowledge.

Not free. Light bets on brisnet the only way he avoids $$, or he uses CPD, or he uses his dad's racing form. :D

Another thing I don't like about briss PP PDF's form is no Purse prices on claiming races. I don't like their JT stats because too easy to overlook, and I don't like their sire stats, mud turf stats. I like knowing if the Dam has foaled a stakes winner.

[MONEY]

Not free. Light bets on brisnet the only way he avoids $$, or he uses CPD, or he uses his dad's racing form. :D

Another thing I don't like about briss PP PDF's form is no Purse prices on claiming races. I don't like their JT stats because too easy to overlook, and I don't like their sire stats, mud turf stats. I like knowing if the Dam has foaled a stakes winner.
Maybe he uses Whobet's page.

http://www.trks2day.com/trks2day.html

[ebcorde]

Maybe he uses Whobet's page.

http://www.trks2day.com/trks2day.html


never heard of it. looks pretty good. they even have picks

[jk3521]

So if "Light" does use "software" , data must have to be inputted manually. Like in the old days.

[Light]

I use Bris Multicaps files and am charged $59.95 per month for unlimited downloads for all tracks per month. These files can be used with the PaceView software.

That is a yearly total of $719.40 not $1820.00.

This is NOT true. I called Brisnet and asked them. They said the $1 data files are $125 a month for unlimited.

Here is the link: http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=ppdataplan

That would mean $1500 is what it would cost to run Greg's program per year.

That's because there is no $59.95 a month plan for Multicaps. Multicaps are twice as expensive as the $1 data files. They are $2. So why would they have a cheaper unlimited plan? I knew that didn't sound right. I just didn't have time to follow up on this claim till now.

The operator told me there is no bundled plan offered by Brisnet for the Multicaps. You have to pay $2 each, which would cost $3640 a year in the example I gave previously (35 PP's a week)to run Greg's program using those files.

[pandy]

This is NOT true. I called Brisnet and asked them. They said the $1 data files are $125 a month for unlimited.

Here is the link: http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=ppdataplan

That would mean $1500 is what it would cost to run Greg's program per year.

That's because there is no $59.95 a month plan for Multicaps. Multicaps are twice as expensive as the $1 data files. They are $2. So why would they have a cheaper unlimited plan? I knew that didn't sound right. I just didn't have time to follow up on this claim till now.

The operator told me there is no bundled plan offered by Brisnet for the Multicaps. You have to pay $2 each, which would cost $3640 a year in the example I gave previously (35 PP's a week)to run Greg's program using those files.


I believe if you used the old Procaps when they had the other website years ago, you had the option to be "grandfathered" into the old price, which was $59.95 a month.

[ReplayRandall]

I believe if you used the old Procaps when they had the other website years ago, you had the option to be "grandfathered" into the old price, which was $59.95 a month.

This is 100% correct, Pandy. The early poster TJC from Nevada is most certainly a long time user and is grandfathered in. The current cheapest unlimited data file package is indeed $125 per month, as Light has said. There are NO yearly unlimited data file plans available, according to the home office.

[Light]

I believe if you used the old Procaps when they had the other website years ago, you had the option to be "grandfathered" into the old price, which was $59.95 a month.

I have no reason to doubt he is grandfathered in. But to make this a defense for the cost of NCG's pp's, an offer that doesn't exist, and hasn't existed for years is clearly stretching the truth.

[TJC]

I wasn't defending anyone or anything. I was just stating my cost, which is a fact.

I use JCapper, in case you are curious, but I have bought a copy of PaceView but have not done anything with it because I have neither the time nor the inclination to alter my handicapping and betting methods for the time being. It was a curiosity purchase because the price was reasonable, and I could afford it.

I called Brisnet today and they are no longer offering the unlimited plan that I have.

And a note to Pandy: Can your thoroughbred software use Bris Multicaps files?

[pandy]

I wasn't defending anyone or anything. I was just stating my cost, which is a fact.

I use JCapper, in case you are curious, but I have bought a copy of PaceView but have not done anything with it because I have neither the time nor the inclination to alter my handicapping and betting methods for the time being. It was a curiosity purchase because the price was reasonable, and I could afford it.

I called Brisnet today and they are no longer offering the unlimited plan that I have.

And a note to Pandy: Can your thoroughbred software use Bris Multicaps files?


My Diamond System cannot use the multicap files. However, when my new book, Power Pace Handicapping comes out, hopefully in a few weeks, it will come with a free software program that uses the bris single file and multicap files should work. I haven't tested it with multicap files yet, but I will and it should work.

[TJC]

Thanks for the reply Pandy.

[Light]

I wasn't defending anyone or anything. I was just stating my cost, which is a fact.


You were stating your cost as a misleading implication that this is what it would cost others. There is no disclaimer in your quote that this offer hasn't been available for at least 10 years.

That is incorrect.

I use Bris Multicaps files and am charged $59.95 per month for unlimited downloads for all tracks per month. These files can be used with the PaceView software.

That is a yearly total of $719.40 not $1820.00.

[Pensacola Pete]

This is 100% correct, Pandy. The early poster TJC from Nevada is most certainly a long time user and is grandfathered in. The current cheapest unlimited data file package is indeed $125 per month, as Light has said. There are NO yearly unlimited data file plans available, according to the home office.

Apparently there's no longer a monthly unlimited plan from BRIS either. JCapper Silver files work with Pace view, and they're $89 per month unlimited, with a weekender's option of $5.95 for any given day.

[TJC]

At the time I posted I was not aware that the plan was no longer available.

But even at $125 per month it would still be less that the $1,820 that you stated.

I have a question for you. Why do you continue to post in this thread?

[mikesal57]

My Diamond System cannot use the multicap files. However, when my new book, Power Pace Handicapping comes out, hopefully in a few weeks, it will come with a free software program that uses the bris single file and multicap files should work. I haven't tested it with multicap files yet, but I will and it should work.

Make sure JCP files can be used too..:)

[NorCalGreg]

Apparently there's no longer a monthly unlimited plan from BRIS either. JCapper Silver files work with Pace view, and they're $89 per month unlimited, with a weekender's option of $5.95 for any given day.

It's still available Pete.....this is the discount plan I have, but I swear you have to get lucky and sweet talk the right lady there :kiss:

[Light]

I have a question for you. Why do you continue to post in this thread?

Because you lied and tried to discredit me.I'm not buying your lame excuse that you were just talking for yourself. Next time say the cost of the PP's that you state only apply in your case only because you got grandfathered in. Don't make it like I'm wrong and I was referring to you. I never even knew you existed.

Otherwise, yes I am done with this thread. You and NCG and his cheerleaders can go on living like you guys are making thousands of dollars. I don't care. I've said my peace and reality bears the truth after the hype.

[TJC]

"Because you lied and tried to discredit me.I'm not buying your lame excuse that you were just talking for yourself. Next time say the cost of the PP's that you state only apply in your case only because you got grandfathered in. Don't make it like I'm wrong and I was referring to you. I never even knew you existed."

I thought I made it clear that I did not know the plan was no longer available and if you think that I am a shill for PaceView or NCG, you need to turn your light in another direction.

[NorCalGreg]

NCG and his cheerleaders can go on living like you guys are making thousands of dollars. I don't care

Really? You don't care? Great! Then you can go on living like you are a Tournament Ranked NHC SHOW BETTOR you claim to be although...I'll have to ask Charli if it's even possible to make only show bets at those tourneys--I'm thinking no.

Good luck with the show betting though...sorry to see you go :ThmbUp:

[Light]

Really? You don't care? Great! Then you can go on living like you are a Tournament Ranked NHC SHOW BETTOR you claim to be although...I'll have to ask Charli if it's even possible to make only show bets at those tourneys--I'm thinking no.

Good luck with the show betting though...sorry to see you go :ThmbUp:

I already had a thread about my NHC success before you were even a member here. As I mentioned its only been the last 2 years that I turned to show betting because of the advantages I found it has over win betting.

You can't even make $5 with your program from over 300 win bets while I made $500 from 12 show bets.

Seriously, you come off so naive and childish. All the things you talk about, this board has been there and done that in great detail several times. Your stuff is nothing new and hasn't shown a dime of profit. Good luck with that.

[Pensacola Pete]

Make sure JCP files can be used too..:)

JCP files have worked for the program as long as I've had them. Because HDW and BRIS use different ratings, and because the HDW ratings are on a different scale than those from BRIS, some of the ratings will look weird if you compare one file type to the other. Pace View was written with the BRIS ratings in mind.

Looking "weird" doesn't mean that the JCP-driven output isn't just as good. The program will generally choose the same horses with either. There are exceptions, but from my research of about 1,000 races using both file types, neither holds over the other. When they differ, it's usually only a switch of one ranking. When they differ, BRIS gets some winners that JCP doesn't, and JCP gets some winners the BRIS doesn't. I've come to the conclusion that there's not enough difference between the two to justify one over the other, and since I already use JCP files with 3 programs and don't use BRIS files with anything except Pace View, I'll be using JCP files in the future and dropping BRIS.

[NorCalGreg]

JCP files have worked for the program as long as I've had them. Because HDW and BRIS use different ratings, and because the HDW ratings are on a different scale than those from BRIS, some of the ratings will look weird if you compare one file type to the other. Pace View was written with the BRIS ratings in mind.

Looking "weird" doesn't mean that the JCP-driven output isn't just as good. The program will generally choose the same horses with either. There are exceptions, but from my research of about 1,000 races using both file types, neither holds over the other. When they differ, it's usually only a switch of one ranking. When they differ, BRIS gets some winners that JCP doesn't, and JCP gets some winners the BRIS doesn't. I've come to the conclusion that there's not enough difference between the two to justify one over the other, and since I already use JCP files with 3 programs and don't use BRIS files with anything except Pace View, I'll be using JCP files in the future and dropping BRIS.

I haven't found this to be true at all, Pete...the program was designed for and with Bris single files--will work completely fine with Bris Multi-Caps.(not to be confused with the MULTI-FILES)

If you're using J-caps out of convenience--that's one thing--but they don't produce an equal output.--NCG

[Southbaygent]

http://img.memecdn.com/Troll-bait_fb_59845.jpg

[Tor Ekman]

I don't know what that's supposed to be, but it's creeping me out

[mikesal57]

I don't know what that's supposed to be, but it's creeping me out


looks like another hater.... :p


hey guys...does anyone have an extra set of pom poms...I wore them out

michelle

[NorCalGreg]

I don't know what that's supposed to be, but it's creeping me out

That's SoCal Tom....on a bridge--- popular sport down towards DelMar:

Fishing for trolls. Then use those for live bait for bigger game.


I prefer to just shoot the damn things, myself...bait up while they still have some wiggle left.

[upthecreek]

looks like another hater.... :p


hey guys...does anyone have an extra set of pom poms...I wore them out

michelle
Will these do?

[mikesal57]

Will these do?


Yep...I'll ware them out too :lol:

[Pensacola Pete]

Will these do?

Only if the user of the pom poms is included.

[dartman51]

Only if the user of the pom poms is included.


Are you sure your heart could take it, Pete?? :lol:

[Pensacola Pete]

Are you sure your heart could take it, Pete?? :lol:

If killed me, it'd be one heck of a way to go.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, this is a class hike for you. You didn't call me a blowhard or a troll. Although I have nothing against blowhards or trolls.

I just want to say something about this statement you made



Here is how naive your statement is. Pensacola Pete played 114 races, $228 in and got back $205. A 10% loss. I also monitored his show betting. He got back $214.80 to show. A loss of only 5.7%! His show betting beat his win betting. So it isn't a matter of "having confidence" and being a macho man and betting to win. Its a matter of being smart.

Look, I see guys racking their brains out, sweating exotics and in the end if they make 10% ROI after 5 hours of exhaustive playing, they are happy. I can play 1 single race and get $3.00 to show. A 50% ROI and I've blown them away in 20 minutes. Its a matter of playing smart. Play with your ego and this game will bury you.Why are you treating this program as if it's a black box? No two people are probably going to utilize it the same way.

You sit here and act as if it has no merit...one who has never even USED the program.

You go on and on about the number of people who have purchased it and the number of people that have kind things to say about it...but you yourself are going to hang your hat on somebody's own personal 100 race run?

You and I know that 100 races doesn't tell you much, unless they are doing the exact same thing in every race, which I doubt he was doing...or maybe he was...he was just using one spot play for all those races?

If not, the run tells you basically nothing...except that losing less than the take makes me think there is something there somewhere that can be exploited with more study.

[PaceAdvantage]

All he has shown me so far is a program that cannot turn a profit.This is only a valid statement if you owned the program and it didn't turn a profit for YOU.

Again, you're treating this thing as if it's a black box and everyone is supposed to blindly bet on the selections it make for each race, which, as far as I can tell, is not the recommended method of even its creator.

Where did NCG ever market this thing as a black box that will turn losers into overnight winners?

All I've seen so far is that this is a nice product at a very nice price that has the potential to help SOME PEOPLE in improving their game. As with all such products, it's not going to help everyone.

[PaceAdvantage]

At least Light has moved on from trolling TLG...remember those days? :lol:

TLG wasn't selling anything, so I forget what Light's excuse was back then.

It appears to me that Light doesn't enjoy it when others get praise for their work on here...that seems to be the common theme for him...

[Pensacola Pete]

You and I know that 100 races doesn't tell you much, unless they are doing the exact same thing in every race, which I doubt he was doing...or maybe he was...he was just using one spot play for all those races?


I was using two very simple fixed-rules spot plays, which were spelled out in the selection thread. Anybody using the program and BRIS DRF files, who followed those rules would come up with the exact same plays that I did. The test was designed to show what could be done without any handicapping or tote watching.

[barshoe]

can some one help me when i print out pace view it comes out to small cant read it...

[NorCalGreg]

can some one help me when i print out pace view it comes out to small cant read it...

Sounds like something "Mole Man" on the Simpson's would post :D :D :D

Actually got a good chuckle out of that one

[Speed Figure]

can some one help me when i print out pace view it comes out to small cant read it...
Best thing you should do is get a Windows Tablet! Take Pace View where ever you go!

[green80]

With paceview for this test I am doing no handicapping or tote watching, just simply clicking on the best bets tab and placing a $2 win bet on each horse it shows. I am playing Louisiana Downs and doing the exact same thing each consecutive racing day. The only days skipped (2) were due to off tracks.


Since July 1 PV has given me 68 Best Bets of which 29 of them won. (43%.)
Thats betting $136 and getting back 141.20 for about a +1.04 ROI

As was mentioned in a previous thread above, "anybody using the program and BRIS DRF files, who did the same would come up with the exact same plays that I did. The test was designed to show what could be done without any handicapping or tote watching."

[NorCalGreg]

With paceview for this test I am doing no handicapping or tote watching, just simply clicking on the best bets tab and placing a $2 win bet on each horse it shows. I am playing Louisiana Downs and doing the exact same thing each consecutive racing day. The only days skipped (2) were due to off tracks.


Since July 1 PV has given me 68 Best Bets of which 29 of them won. (43%.)
Thats betting $136 and getting back 141.20 for about a +1.04 ROI

As was mentioned in a previous thread above, "anybody using the program and BRIS DRF files, who did the same would come up with the exact same plays that I did. The test was designed to show what could be done without any handicapping or tote watching."

That's interesting, greenie....the best bets were never intended as stand-alone bets, since their odds are usually too low to consider for the win.

They were intended as "must-use" in exotics--but any good selection is worth a bet if the price is right. I don't bet Saratoga but noticed MONSTER MASH was a solid best bet @ 10-1 ML.

Not sure that positive ROI will hold up--but just being in the ballpark of $1.00 ROI is noteworthy--NCG

[green80]

NCG,

I am just playing them as they come out. It could be improved upon by simply not playing the races with too many first time starters or horses with no rating. You will see some races where only 2 or 3 horses will have a power number and the program will show a best bet. By throwing these out, my numbers would improve, but I will finish it out the way I started.

[green80]

With paceview for this test I am doing no handicapping or tote watching, just simply clicking on the best bets tab and placing a $2 win bet on each horse it shows. I am playing Louisiana Downs and doing the exact same thing each consecutive racing day. The only days skipped (2) were due to off tracks.


Since July 1 PV has given me 68 Best Bets of which 29 of them won. (43%.)
Thats betting $136 and getting back 141.20 for about a +1.04 ROI

As was mentioned in a previous thread above, "anybody using the program and BRIS DRF files, who did the same would come up with the exact same plays that I did. The test was designed to show what could be done without any handicapping or tote watching."

Had a better week this week, Update:

Since July 1 PV has given me 81 Best Bets of which 37 of them won. (46%.)
Thats betting $162 and getting back 192.40 for about a +1.19 ROI

[lefty359]

I am interested in pace-view, noticed this interesting thread is kinda old. How is Pace-View doing for you these days?

[green80]

I am interested in pace-view, noticed this interesting thread is kinda old. How is Pace-View doing for you these days?

Still my software of choice after you learn how to use it. Works better at certain tracks. I only bet when the choice horse meets a minimum odds.

I prefer the best 5 program. Wed night at Delta it had one pace power pick at over 6/1 ML. It won and paid $114.20. Anybody with the program can go back and check. (Yea, I bet it.)

I've been using it for a couple of years now and with a little patience and waiting on good odds on your picks, I think anybody can make money long term. You have to just keep records and see what is working at the track you like to play.

I would be happy to help or answer any questions anybody has about the programs.

[lefty359]

green, I just sent you a P.M. I can't get hold of this guy. Even on his website. I get to shopping cart but unable to scroll dn to find a submit button. Any thoughts? Tried to phone and email to know avail.

[PaceAdvantage]

You guys need to read this now-closed thread...at least the last couple of pages...you can start at about this point:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129208&highlight=paceview&page=312