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Racey
06-21-2016, 09:50 PM
In its infancy I know but was curious are most on the board as intrigued as I as this seems like a well done program. I do wish more emphasis was on horses racing against the race flow. ++ or - - for bris users or S and C for DRF. Would anyone like to comment on the program such as ease of use early success, spot plays Early Late ect. I think I will be ordering soon nice job NCG.

NorCalGreg
06-22-2016, 08:37 AM
In its infancy I know but was curious are most on the board as intrigued as I as this seems like a well done program. I do wish more emphasis was on horses racing against the race flow. ++ or - - for bris users or S and C for DRF. Would anyone like to comment on the program such as ease of use early success, spot plays Early Late ect. I think I will be ordering soon nice job NCG.

*ahem* ....I'd like to comment. I noticed you are a very careful shopper-- You ask around and get suggestions, recommendations, etc.

If you like spot plays---you can come up with a dozen of your own with this program. "Pace Flow" programs are probably more high end, Racey.

-NCG

Capper Al
06-22-2016, 08:43 AM
This is not so easy of a topic. Pace at times seems only to have value as an elimination tool. Other times pace supports the winner. Determining what type of pace attribute to use is challenging also. The product you mentioned uses only the last two races. In my experience, there is more to pace than only the last races. I dropped key pp line pace and went back to it because I wasn't satisfied with using a non key race approach for pace. Other attributes such as speed work well without a key race pace.

Tom
06-22-2016, 09:21 AM
1. Buy the program
2. Move to Finger Lakes
3. Enjoy life!

JimG
06-22-2016, 09:31 AM
1. Buy the program
2. Move to Finger Lakes
3. Enjoy life!

Hi Tom,

Do you think the program is geared for early speed favoring tracks in general?

Jim

NorCalGreg
06-22-2016, 10:40 AM
This is not so easy of a topic. Pace at times seems only to have value as an elimination tool. Other times pace supports the winner. Determining what type of pace attribute to use is challenging also. The product you mentioned uses only the last two races. In my experience, there is more to pace than only the last races. I dropped key pp line pace and went back to it because I wasn't satisfied with using a non key race approach for pace. Other attributes such as speed work well without a key race pace.

Al....Racey asked for comments from users of the program. You have neither purchased the program nor used it. I don't mean to be rude, but your experiences with pace aren't relevant here.

If that's why you haven't bought the program--that's fine. Some well-known handicappers have purchased it- if for no other reason than may just learn from it, it's another tool-- and it costs what an app costs nowadays.

Have a good day my friend

-NCG

Capper Al
06-22-2016, 10:45 AM
Al....Racey asked for comments from users of the program. You have neither purchased the program nor used it. I don't mean to be rude, but your experiences with pace aren't relevant here.

If that's why you haven't bought the program--that's fine. Some well-known handicappers have purchased it- if for no other reason than may just learn from it, it's another tool-- and it costs what an app costs nowadays.

Have a good day my friend

-NCG

I read your info where you stated that your figures were based on the last two races. I'm sorry if I remember this wrong. So, I was careful to write my experience when discussing pace not your product.

cj
06-22-2016, 12:24 PM
Al....Racey asked for comments from users of the program. You have neither purchased the program nor used it. I don't mean to be rude, but your experiences with pace aren't relevant here.

If that's why you haven't bought the program--that's fine. Some well-known handicappers have purchased it- if for no other reason than may just learn from it, it's another tool-- and it costs what an app costs nowadays.

Have a good day my friend

-NCG


If anything is out of line I'll take care of it, or PA will. But even as an authorized advertiser you really can't control where threads go. That said, you pointing out Al isn't a user is also fair game.

Capper Al
06-22-2016, 12:37 PM
Now I want to know. Didn't you state that your product used only the last two races? Old people like to checkout their memory.

JJMartin
06-22-2016, 02:05 PM
Now I want to know. Didn't you state that your product used only the last two races? Old people like to checkout their memory.
I can tell you that in my own program, the pace line is always selected from one of the last two races. In my experience the farther you go back the less predictive the data is.

Capper Al
06-22-2016, 04:09 PM
I can tell you that in my own program, the pace line is always selected from one of the last two races. In my experience the farther you go back the less predictive the data is.

I'm struggling with this at the moment. Need to run some data and see where it goes.

Speed Figure
06-22-2016, 04:59 PM
I can tell you that in my own program, the pace line is always selected from one of the last two races. In my experience the farther you go back the less predictive the data is.I would never only look at the last two races! I have no problem going far back!

EMD4ME
06-22-2016, 06:39 PM
Regardless of if it's 1 or 2 races, I have a couple of questions:

1) What happens if the horse was a victim at the start the last 2 races? Wouldn't you MISS a true speed horse who is hidden?

2) What happens if a horse was choked and rated in the last race/last 2 races? Again, wouldn't that cause you to misinterpret a pace scenario?

How is that captured in the info?

Capper Al
06-22-2016, 06:45 PM
Regardless of if it's 1 or 2 races, I have a couple of questions:

1) What happens if the horse was a victim at the start the last 2 races? Wouldn't you MISS a true speed horse who is hidden?

2) What happens if a horse was choked and rated in the last race/last 2 races? Again, wouldn't that cause you to misinterpret a pace scenario?

How is that captured in the info?

Good questions.

green80
06-22-2016, 08:08 PM
Regardless of if it's 1 or 2 races, I have a couple of questions:

1) What happens if the horse was a victim at the start the last 2 races? Wouldn't you MISS a true speed horse who is hidden?

2) What happens if a horse was choked and rated in the last race/last 2 races? Again, wouldn't that cause you to misinterpret a pace scenario?

How is that captured in the info?

These are very valid points. I have seen many horses get a bad ride or have some bad racing luck and come back to run to form and win at a big price.

That being said some horses seem to figure out a way to get beat. Just ask any trainer of the losers and see what kind of excuses you get, rarely you will hear one say we just got beat.

NorCalGreg
06-23-2016, 04:37 AM
Regardless of if it's 1 or 2 races, I have a couple of questions:

1) What happens if the horse was a victim at the start the last 2 races? Wouldn't you MISS a true speed horse who is hidden?

2) What happens if a horse was choked and rated in the last race/last 2 races? Again, wouldn't that cause you to misinterpret a pace scenario?

How is that captured in the info?

Your hypothetical "what if" scenarios--every software developer has heard from day one. The truth is, it just doesn't happen often enough that way. You maybe score a couple longshots every meet with careful study--but it's not a regular daily occurrence. You can also score some longshots with Pace View you would never, ever see without the program.

This is quick, inexpensive software for handicappers that would like a different VIEW of the races and spot plays/angles. I don't care to know a horse's life history...just what he's done lately.

I understand you and other 'cappers have different styles & need to know more-- by all means go for it :)

-NCG

EMD4ME
06-23-2016, 07:32 AM
Your hypothetical "what if" scenarios--every software developer has heard from day one. The truth is, it just doesn't happen often enough that way. You maybe score a couple longshots every meet with careful study--but it's not a regular daily occurrence. You can also score some longshots with Pace View you would never, ever see without the program.

This is quick, inexpensive software for handicappers that would like a different VIEW of the races and spot plays/angles. I don't care to know a horse's life history...just what he's done lately.

I understand you and other 'cappers have different styles & need to know more-- by all means go for it :)

-NCG

Fair enough. Was just wondering. I can appreciate that.

EMD4ME
06-24-2016, 10:28 AM
Your hypothetical "what if" scenarios--every software developer has heard from day one. The truth is, it just doesn't happen often enough that way. You maybe score a couple longshots every meet with careful study--but it's not a regular daily occurrence. You can also score some longshots with Pace View you would never, ever see without the program.

This is quick, inexpensive software for handicappers that would like a different VIEW of the races and spot plays/angles. I don't care to know a horse's life history...just what he's done lately.

I understand you and other 'cappers have different styles & need to know more-- by all means go for it :)

-NCG

Sorry. One more question. A good % of tracks will have an anti rail / outside closers bias on given days. Is that incorporated into the selections/software? If a speed horse is bogged down on a dead rail, their pace fig can be dramatically impacted.

As a pick 4/5/6/7 player, I can't afford to miss one nugget of info as that nugget might cost me $50,000

I'm always looking to improve my game. A year ago i didnt use TFUS. Now I use formulator and TFUS. That's why I ask.

Lemon Drop Husker
06-24-2016, 04:36 PM
Sorry. One more question. A good % of tracks will have an anti rail / outside closers bias on given days. Is that incorporated into the selections/software? If a speed horse is bogged down on a dead rail, their pace fig can be dramatically impacted.

As a pick 4/5/6/7 player, I can't afford to miss one nugget of info as that nugget might cost me $50,000

I'm always looking to improve my game. A year ago i didnt use TFUS. Now I use formulator and TFUS. That's why I ask.

Tough crowd. :D

EMD4ME
06-24-2016, 04:57 PM
Tough crowd. :D

You're telling me??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides SRU, can you name 1 other poster who gets blasted more than me ??!! :lol:

Do I at least get some credit for trying to understand more about the software programs/users?

kingfin66
06-24-2016, 05:25 PM
Sorry. One more question. A good % of tracks will have an anti rail / outside closers bias on given days. Is that incorporated into the selections/software? If a speed horse is bogged down on a dead rail, their pace fig can be dramatically impacted.

As a pick 4/5/6/7 player, I can't afford to miss one nugget of info as that nugget might cost me $50,000

I'm always looking to improve my game. A year ago i didnt use TFUS. Now I use formulator and TFUS. That's why I ask.

I am thinking that you likely already know the answer to this question. Folks who are put on blast are usually put there for a reason...usually their own behavior. Just sayin'... Good luck at The Downs tonight.

EMD4ME
06-24-2016, 05:30 PM
I am thinking that you likely already know the answer to this question. Folks who are put on blast are usually put there for a reason...usually their own behavior. Just sayin'... Good luck at The Downs tonight.

Not necessarily. TFUS has red and blue for bias notations. Was wondering if NCG did the same.

Thanks for the well wishes :ThmbUp:

Lemon Drop Husker
06-24-2016, 06:11 PM
You're telling me??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides SRU, can you name 1 other poster who gets blasted more than me ??!! :lol:

Do I at least get some credit for trying to understand more about the software programs/users?

You have to admit, you are a bit arseholish, right? :)

I love you though man. You are always interesting, you bring definite light to subjects, and you post with intent and passion. I love it. While I may not agree with 80% of your posts, I certainly enjoy them and you make me think.

When you post and you make people think.., that is what this should be about, right?

EMD4ME
06-24-2016, 06:41 PM
You have to admit, you are a bit arseholish, right? :)

I love you though man. You are always interesting, you bring definite light to subjects, and you post with intent and passion. I love it. While I may not agree with 80% of your posts, I certainly enjoy them and you make me think.

When you post and you make people think.., that is what this should be about, right?

Humbled :blush:

I was expecting another blast :D

Arseholish? Can't admit that as I don't see it BUT let me quit while I'm ahead :D

Let's kick some Arse at the Spaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Exotic1
06-24-2016, 06:55 PM
You're telling me??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides SRU, can you name 1 other poster who gets blasted more than me ??!! :lol:

Do I at least get some credit for trying to understand more about the software programs/users?


Yes. So noted.

You bring up good points about a pace line selection variable, ie. 2nd race back, 3rd race back, 4th race back. etc. That would most likely require multiple screens, additional programming and adding to cost.

Racey
06-24-2016, 08:25 PM
not to much about the program itself early success stories ,,,ect overall opinion besides the great price .

Racey
06-24-2016, 08:27 PM
perhaps I am asking too much as I was just looking for board opinion...sorry guys my apologies.

green80
06-26-2016, 12:20 PM
perhaps I am asking too much as I was just looking for board opinion...sorry guys my apologies.

Racey- Board opinion, Pace-View is as good as any $35 program on the market that I have ever heard of. It also outperforms some other programs that I have that are in the $500-1000 range. Very easy to use with a short learning curve. Will it make you a winner everyday? NO, but it is a pretty good tool to have in your box.

Pensacola Pete
06-26-2016, 01:46 PM
It's well worth the $35, in my opinion.

Racey
06-27-2016, 08:25 PM
thanks

EMD4ME
06-27-2016, 08:40 PM
Sorry. One more question. A good % of tracks will have an anti rail / outside closers bias on given days. Is that incorporated into the selections/software? If a speed horse is bogged down on a dead rail, their pace fig can be dramatically impacted.

As a pick 4/5/6/7 player, I can't afford to miss one nugget of info as that nugget might cost me $50,000

I'm always looking to improve my game. A year ago i didnt use TFUS. Now I use formulator and TFUS. That's why I ask.

I'm sorry NCG, I am still waiting for a response to this question. :rolleyes:

You see, this past Sunday at Belmont, the winner, #3 Kelsocait had run twice.

1st out was caught dueling 2 wide till the 1/4 on a dead INSIDE day. Then, was guided to the rail as the closers came. When he was passed, the jock took the horse OFF the rail and you can see new energy from the horse.

2nd out, the horse was on the wrong surface.

To boot, the dam's kids were better performers routing vs. sprinting.

I was wondering how all of this was captured by this software?

Should I take your repulsive copout reply in the "other" Paceview thread as your official reply to this valid question? :rolleyes:

You may be tall in height but you come up way short, just like your pal Classaway, in terms of CLASS.

Pensacola Pete
06-28-2016, 03:12 AM
For Tuesday, here are two longshot plays:

PHA/PRX, race 1, #5 Goldland
PID, race 1, #7 Confluence

Tom
06-28-2016, 07:44 AM
I was wondering how all of this was captured by this software?

If you really gave a crap, you would go to the website and see. It is all explained there. But that is not your intention, is it?

castaway01
06-28-2016, 08:22 AM
If you really gave a crap, you would go to the website and see. It is all explained there. But that is not your intention, is it?

Tom, on this site you're not allowed to question EMD4ME. He can do whatever he wants but you have to just take it. Those are the rules. :bang:

EMD4ME
06-28-2016, 08:55 AM
If you really gave a crap, you would go to the website and see. It is all explained there. But that is not your intention, is it?

I did give a crap. I always try and learn everything I can about the game, hence why I created a thread with questions. After NCG's passive aggressive attacks & it being evident that he had no sincere interest/feedback in regards to my question, YES I was sarcastic in my last post.

EMD4ME
06-28-2016, 08:57 AM
Tom, on this site you're not allowed to question EMD4ME. He can do whatever he wants but you have to just take it. Those are the rules. :bang:

Don't let facts get in your way....

You're the one who is allowed to get away with things around here. Mr. Hit and Run.

At least I stand up and answer every post like a person of moral compass. Not my fault the truth hurts.

NorCalGreg
06-28-2016, 10:42 AM
For Tuesday, here are two longshot plays:

PHA/PRX, race 1, #5 Goldland
PID, race 1, #7 Confluence


LOL....I just saw this, I posted CONFLUENCE on the other thread. At anywhere near 10-1 I'm all over that. :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage
06-29-2016, 06:26 PM
I was wondering how all of this was captured by this software? It's probably not, and it doesn't have to be to be successful...but you know this already.

EMD4ME
06-29-2016, 08:27 PM
It's probably not, and it doesn't have to be to be successful...but you know this already.

As of 6/29/16, I am now 90% sure it is not.

A while back, stupid me thought there was a chance it could be inserted somehow. (as I have zero experience with any horse software-besides watching Delta Lover make some nice hits)

Regardless, everyone carry on and be well. :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage
06-29-2016, 10:54 PM
If a software program were able to put everything on earth into its analysis, it would probably come up with the post time favorite 99% if the time....

jasperson
06-30-2016, 09:27 AM
Assuming these races are at the right distance and class and the race is on dirt which pace line would you select and why?
65a,78a,80a,76a,82d,80d.

Capper Al
06-30-2016, 01:10 PM
If a software program were able to put everything on earth into its analysis, it would probably come up with the post time favorite 99% if the time....

That's actually a good point.

green80
06-30-2016, 01:20 PM
I don't care if the software uses the color of the jockey's silks to make it's selections, as long as it can pick enough winners.

Capper Al
06-30-2016, 01:23 PM
Assuming these races are at the right distance and class and the race is on dirt which pace line would you select and why?
65a,78a,80a,76a,82d,80d.

Good question. Too often this is vague. Here are some match ups that I can guess.


best last race
best last 2
best last 3
best 2 of last 3
best last 2 of 4
key match last 10
many more

Nitro
06-30-2016, 03:17 PM
If a software program were able to put everything on earth into its analysis, it would probably come up with the post time favorite 99% if the time....I totally disagree with this comment. It assumes that every horse in the race is entered in an attempt to win. This is a complete misnomer.

First of all, the real insider KEY variables are an unknown factor to the majority of players using typical PP data from any source. But even then this type of info could be entered into such a program, it would be based on subjective assumptions.

On the other hand, if it could objectively be entered, thereís no way that such a program would only come up with the post time favorite. I personally use the closest type of software that provides such information. Someday misguided players will realize that this game is not just about the horses. Itís about those who control every aspect of their racing careers.
.
.

jasperson
06-30-2016, 05:54 PM
Good question. Too often this is vague. Here are some match ups that I can guess.


best last race
best last 2
best last 3
best 2 of last 3
best last 2 of 4
key match last 10
many more

What i was trying to get at is do most handicappers select the best race that fits the race condition regardless of how far back it is. Then deal with the current form as reflected by the last race. I would have selected the last race because it shows that he is off form unless there was a comment that he had an excuse. He was in his proper condition and couldn't repeat his other efforts. If his last race was about equal to his other efforts on an artificial surface I would have selected one of his dirt races. Taking a race 5 to 7 races back means in today's world you would be taking a race that is a least 5 months ago. A lot can change over 5 months. Just my opinion

Tor Ekman
06-30-2016, 10:14 PM
NCG - Took your brainchild for a spin at LA Downs today. In the 7th race, noticed a classic E1/E2 on the lead first call spot play AT A PRICE -- :8: Cherishabull at 8-1 ML

Bet it to win and boxed it up in the exacta with top power :4: Miss Blacktiequeen.

The :8: gunned to the lead with :4: pressing and around the track they went, :4: put head out front at top of stretch but :8: battled back gamely, neck and neck they ran to photo finish, with :8: by a nose. Had to sweat an inquiry on the :8: drifting out a bit before the wire, but all to the good.

:8: paid $27.60
:8::4: exacta paid $78.20

Paid for the software a few times over with that one. YOU THE MAN, NCG!!! :ThmbUp:

NorCalGreg
06-30-2016, 10:52 PM
NCG - Took your brainchild for a spin at LA Downs today. In the 7th race, noticed a classic E1/E2 on the lead first call spot play AT A PRICE -- :8: Cherishabull at 8-1 ML

Bet it to win and boxed it up in the exacta with top power :4: Miss Blacktiequeen.

The :8: gunned to the lead with :4: pressing and around the track they went, :4: put head out front at top of stretch but :8: battled back gamely, neck and neck they ran to photo finish, with :8: by a nose. Had to sweat an inquiry on the :8: drifting out a bit before the wire, but all to the good.

:8: paid $27.60
:8::4: exacta paid $78.20

Paid for the software a few times over with that one. YOU THE MAN, NCG!!! :ThmbUp:


Glad to hear it, Tor...you're a good, decent man so that's just karma. I had a couple speed plays at Belmont today--nailed them both for $18 & $14.

I've been both winner and loser---winning's much better isn't it! :)

Tom
07-01-2016, 07:29 AM
LA has shown good promise so far......just saying, but really - Shhhhhhhhhh!;)

PaceAdvantage
07-01-2016, 02:56 PM
I totally disagree with this comment. It assumes that every horse in the race is entered in an attempt to win. This is a complete misnomer.
.No it isn't assuming a thing. The software would know exactly which horses are entered in an attempt to win. Like I said, everything that is to be known about the horse is entered and analyzed by this theoretical piece of software that will never exist in reality.

The output of such software will reflect exactly what the crowd reflects. All known information, mashed together in one little number...the odds.

Capper Al
07-01-2016, 03:19 PM
Good question. Too often this is vague. Here are some match ups that I can guess.


best last race
best last 2
best last 3
best 2 of last 3
best last 2 of 4
key match last 10
many more


Jack,

The last one key means same type of distance and surface as today's race out of the last 10 races. Last race is a good form indicator even if not a key race.

Capper Al
07-16-2016, 11:42 AM
Okay, I ordered the CD. At the price, it was worth the risk. Hope the instructions are good and explain what the numbers are.

acorn54
07-19-2016, 08:13 AM
Okay, I ordered the CD. At the price, it was worth the risk. Hope the instructions are good and explain what the numbers are.

CapperAL,even beavis and butthead can understand this program. it is elegant in it's simplicity. only received it last night and i am getting oriented to it, and will start with small real bets today. the only test that validates these software programs are when you go forward and wager actual money.
i have done "years of backtesting " with other software programs only to show losses when i start betting with real money.

Capper Al
07-19-2016, 08:16 AM
CapperAL,even beavis and butthead can understand this program. it is elegant in it's simplicity. only received it last night and i am getting oriented to it, and will start with small real bets today. the only test that validates these software programs are when you go forward and wager actual money.
i have done "years of backtesting " with other software programs only to show losses when i start betting with real money.

That is amazing. I don't back test much anymore. Wouldn't want to miss a lucky streak.