2016 Poker Discussion Thread

[Track Collector]

Let's have at it folks!

[proximity]

as promised i will post the 2016 poker tour reports here in this 2016 thread and again pledge to do my best to make quality posts.

if you are just joining us i always have a goal to make thousands ($2000+) of dollars in a year and so far i've failed twice (+911 in 2014 and -210 in 2015). so hopefully the third time is a charm!!

everything that happens in the reports is basically true. names or player descriptions are frequently changed to protect the innocent.... and sometimes the not so innocent. ;)

at the end of each game report is a game +/-. this is cash out at the cage minus buy in. i'm not adjusting for dealer tips or rake although it would certainly be a big help in making my $2000 goal if i did. similarly if i tip the cocktail waitress out of my stack, that counts against me too. usually i just tip waitresses with some spare bills in my pocket though. cash out minus buy in. period.

in my gambling life i come from an abusive home (penn national) that treats both horse and poker players like absolute dirt. while i've been extremely unlucky to grow up in such an environment, i've been extremely blessed by the emergence of a new casino down route 83 called the horseshoe baltimore.

in addition to being a beautiful casino with a great poker room horseshoe really treats the player well and as such it's my 2016 goal to play there as much as i can.

in addition to game winnings we've also kept track of "bonus" winnings which i've defined as any extra money that comes directly from the poker room. in the past two years i got a full house bonus at charles town, and hot seat, rakeback, high hand, and bad beat jackpots at horseshoe. should i be lucky enough to get another bonus or two in 2016 the after tip totals will appear separately from the game report statistics in a line below them.

i also get comp dollars, promotional chips, and gifts from the horseshoe and sometimes atlantic city. i may mention a gift from time to time but will keep no official track of these. new for 2016 i will keep a separate track of promotional chips and try to give updates on unused comp dollars.

finally readers of the 2015 reports probably noticed that i had terrible luck with pocket kings. fellow pa member and west coast limit expert dilanesp noted that he won 71% online with this great hand and i'll probably never match this number since i'm usually facing probably twice the field sizes he is but for 2016 we'll track the w-l record of this powerful hand and see how i do!!

thanks for reading and hope to see YOU across the felt!!

--proximity

[proximity]

i lose with trip sevens.

i lose with a set of sevens.

i lose with trip aces.

i lose with a set of fours.

three hours and twenty six minutes into the game i win with AA to drag my first pot of the year.

welcome to the 2016 proximity poker tour!!

it's new year's day and i'm at the beautiful horseshoe baltimore in 3/6 limit hold 'em company.

i'm getting crushed worse than iowa in the rose bowl and the game is moving slower than an obese snail climbing a mountain.

the entire table is generally slow but one player, who is a dead ringer for the late, great george plimpton, really takes the cake.

the paper lion repeatedly checks when there's a bet to him and likes to wait until it's his turn to act to study his cards. and the fact that he's pounding heineken's like there's no tomorrow can't be helping.

in the ten minutes between hands i think of breaking out my good will hunting boston accent and asking the paper lion if he finds it haad to hide the fact that he's gay.

i figure when the rest of the poker room comes at me with burning torches and pitchforks i can appease them by holding up my hands and saying that "hey i don't care if he putts from the rough."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftl_ckcpZgY

in the end i imagine the whole thing going over like a lead balloon so i instead opt to just keep quiet and take a series of power naps in the seemingly interminable gaps between hands. :sleeping:

i can deal with the bad beats, the sky high variance, and even the slow play.

"that's poker." as "they" stoically say.

but some of these hands like KT in the highjack against almost the whole table.... i just don't know?

flop AKx. checks around.

turn: J

this time the paper lion doesn't check but suddenly bets out from early position. (of course he only throws $3 in the pot on a $6 street, but whatever :rolleyes: )

the action folds around to me and i call as does the button and small blind.

river: x.

the small blind checks, the paper lion checks, i check, but now the button suddenly bets out.

the small blind calls, the paper lion folds faster than a housekeeper on speed, and i call and flip over the KT.

the button stares at my hand.

he stares at the board.

he stares at my hand.

he mucks his hand.

the small blind stares at the table.

the small blind flips over A7. :rolleyes:

towards the end i do drag a pot with KK so we're 1-0 on the season with the cowboys.

but that's pretty much the highlight of the game.

game -144 (3/6 lim)
year -144 (0-1)
kk 1-0 (1-0)
promo chips 65 (65)
end of day tier credits 372 (40,000 needed for diamond aspirations 1)

[deelo]

you can't beat the rake in 3/6, you need to find at least 4/8 and probably 5/10 to have a chance

[charm city whizz]

you can't beat the rake in 3/6, you need to find at least 4/8 and probably 5/10 to have a chance

Proximity is anti the casino I work at😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

He makes more trips to black eye Susan day per year to the other casino in maryland hahahahahah

[proximity]

you can't beat the rake in 3/6, you need to find at least 4/8 and probably 5/10 to have a chance

you must have missed the first two threads where i went 63-37 and +1457 at 3/6 and below while going 2-5 for -$534 at 4/8?

stick around though. we're off to an abysmal start so this could be the year!!

[proximity]

Proximity is anti the casino I work at😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

He makes more trips to black eye Susan day per year to the other casino in maryland hahahahahah

that's correct.

i rarely get to rocky gap. :D

[proximity]

today's action finds us back at horseshoe and still searching for our first win of the year after the drubbing on opening day.

around 3:10 my name starts flashing for a new game and at 3:20 it's cards in the air.

it's another bad start at the shoe with QQ losing twice in the first hour and thirty minutes of the game. however around 5:00 i flip over trip aces after a villain calls my river bet.

he stares at the board.

he stares at my hand.

he stares at the board.

he shows his hand to his neighbor.

he mucks his hand.

suddenly however, cathy (i believe a former colts cheerleader from the unitas and ameche era) shouts out "show one, show all."

"nah,... let's not see it," i half-jokingly respond causing the dealer to explain to cathy how the other player could still win the pot if he misread his hand and the winning hand was flipped over.

"oh, you'd be really mad at me then, wouldn't you?

"you'd probably want to kill me and you'd be right to want to."

"well, i think murder is probably a bit extreme," i tell her before adding that "i was thinking more about committing suicide and coming back to haunt you with my ghost."

at any rate, i'm on the board but thirty minutes later i lose with AA. before i can shed my first tear however, i river a lucky jack to fill up and win a nice pot with QJ.

i take a short break in the diamond lounge and when i return to the table a new player named shooter has joined the action.

shooter is possibly the single unhappiest player in maryland poker. i believe the last time he smiled they were still racing at bowie? however the last time i saw him at horseshoe he actually talked to me and said he thought he remembered me playing at live! before. since i get to live! about as often as paris hilton goes deer hunting i was impressed with his memory and assumed a mutual respect between us.

a few orbits pass and with AQ i raise one limper from middle position. the button calls two cold and shooter raises to $9 from the small blind. the big blind and limper fold. i call and so does the button.

flop: JTX

shooter bets, i call, and the button calls. i turn an ace to overtake shooter's KK and win the pot.

"bad players..." shooter mumbles.

i was thinking of telling him i was almost getting odds to call for the gutshot alone but decided to just let it go. instead of dwelling on how our friendship ended i guess i'll just try and appreciate the good times. :rolleyes:

anyhow i have better luck with KK than shooter did going 1-0 for the game. however, when i raise the cowboys from under the gun EVERYBODY folds and i just scoop the blinds. halley's comet will probably fly over the casino before this happens again.

the rest of the game i'm rather card dead but hold on for a $68 win.

on my way out i see another paceadvantage member who is high on life after tcu and oregon go to ot and keep scoring.

my guess is he won 4 digits on the game but i decide to lowball him.

"how much did you win on that over?.... $500?"

"uhh..... no, no. just $300!!" he says.

i think he just dropped a zero. ;)

game +68 (3/6lim)
year -76 (1-1)
kk 1-0 (2-0)
promo 55 (120)
tier 732

[thaskalos]

How about keeping a record of your actual time at the table? Your hourly rate would be a better indicator than your won/loss record...IMO.

[proximity]

How about keeping a record of your actual time at the table? Your hourly rate would be a better indicator than your won/loss record...IMO.

for the horseshoe my total hours will be roughly tier/50.

if i can get caught up on the reports i'll calculate this and start keeping track. they're supposed to add on a bonus for the end of last year though and hopefully they'll do that soon.

if you're coming east there are so many benefits that i would recommend horseshoe. i believe live! has some great benefits for regs too but for me they're not nearly as flexible. there's also a new place called national harbor coming soon and we'll see what they bring to the table.

[v j stauffer]

I have a friend who is interested in playing small buy in no limit tourneys.

She has a very rudimentary card knowledge but really not much more.

She wants to learn but two sources of that are non-starters.

Listening to me.

Reading an actual hard copy book.

Would love for anyone to suggest how she could study to acquire at least puncher's chance when they shuffle up and deal.

Thanks in advance.

V J S

[ManU918]

I have a friend who is interested in playing small buy in no limit tourneys.

She has a very rudimentary card knowledge but really not much more.

She wants to learn but two sources of that are non-starters.

Listening to me.

Reading an actual hard copy book.

Would love for anyone to suggest how she could study to acquire at least puncher's chance when they shuffle up and deal.

Thanks in advance.

V J S

Well without wanting to talk about the game or read about the game she has 2 options. Watch beginner tutorial videos on Youtube or dive right in and learn on the fly.

[thaskalos]

I have a friend who is interested in playing small buy in no limit tourneys.

She has a very rudimentary card knowledge but really not much more.

She wants to learn but two sources of that are non-starters.

Listening to me.

Reading an actual hard copy book.

Would love for anyone to suggest how she could study to acquire at least puncher's chance when they shuffle up and deal.

Thanks in advance.

V J S
Might she consider listening to an audiobook, or three?

http://www.audible.com/pd/Self-Development/Strategies-for-Beating-Small-Stakes-Poker-Tournaments-Audiobook/B00W2FAAY2/ref=a_pd_Self-D_c4_1_3_i?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=0QFXAA0QVMJC56KKGAZ3&pf_rd_m=A2ZO8JX97D5MN9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=detail-page&pf_rd_p=1814705522&pf_rd_s=center-4

http://www.audible.com/pd/Self-Development/Secrets-of-Professional-Tournament-Poker-Volume-1-Audiobook/B00NHY20OU/ref=a_pd_Self-D_c4_1_3_i?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=1GDER58RYYDMYWMM2FSR&pf_rd_m=A2ZO8JX97D5MN9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=detail-page&pf_rd_p=1814705522&pf_rd_s=center-4

http://www.audible.com/pd/Self-Development/Secrets-of-Professional-Tournament-Poker-Volume-2-Audiobook/B017BYTUTE/ref=a_pd_Self-D_c4_1_1_i?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=1T67BSGQK7ERDRPCHSE9&pf_rd_m=A2ZO8JX97D5MN9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=detail-page&pf_rd_p=1814705522&pf_rd_s=center-4

[v j stauffer]

Well without wanting to talk about the game or read about the game she has 2 options. Watch beginner tutorial videos on Youtube or dive right in and learn on the fly.

What tutorial videos would you recommend?

[no breathalyzer]

Harrington on Hold 'em.. very solid basics.. no matter how much the game has changed still worth the read... never mind i missed the part '' doesn't want to read.. just tell her go on you tube then.. and check out pocket fives web site... Fold all AA

[proximity]

not much excitement to report from our next outing at horseshoe.

about two hours in i'm clinging to a short lead and folding 90% of my hands. i'm certainly not making any kind of spectacle of myself.

however, when i raise KK i anger a reg named harvard and a short moment later i too wish i'd just limped when a donk who called two cold with 65 off ends up winning the pot.

now i don't want to hurt harvard's feelings or anything but about fifteen minutes later i raise again, this time with AK.

flop: 2-3-4 turn: k river:4

at showdown i table my AK and harvard also tables AK for a chop.

"now aren't you glad i raised and knocked out all those 4s harvard?"

this time, harvard concurs with a smile he can't hide and the game moves on.

with QQ i can't drive out my neighbor who calls two cold with KT and sticks around to river trip dimes. but with two dimes of my own in the pocket i reraise a donkey to $9 and hold off a few other fish who called three cold to pull to within $5 of even in the games final moments.

things look promising when 98 suited flops an open ended straight draw but when blanks come on the turn and river we're heading for the exits with loss numero dos on the season.

game -23 (3/6)
year -99 (1-2)
kk 0-1 (2-1)
promo 35 (155)
tier 962 (19.24 hrs, -$5.14 hr)

[proximity]

another 3:20 start at the horseshoe and today things go straight downhill from the opening bell.

by 5:00 i've lost 3-4 times with AK and AQ turns broadway but loses to a rivered flush. half the table takes a simultaneous break and i'm flopping big short handed but keep losing to sets.

shortly after 5:00 i finally get a break when A9s turns a straight and rivers a flush to overtake a player who had turned a bigger straight (Q9).

but pocket jacks fall to a set of 2s and pocket aces fall to a set of kings.

at this point i'm down over $170 and any hopes of a comeback are being washed away by a raging flood of rags.

when the game starts to get short again i raise KJ but get beaten out by one of the supposedly better players at the shoe who calls two cold with 85 off.

later the recently discussed shooter enters the game and i note that this "good player" has limped early with Q7 off.

you'll see another player with even any kind of a clue about as often as you'll see a no-hitter at camden yards.

it's lonely at the top of maryland small stakes hold 'em and tonight we learn that it's lonely at the bottom too.

worst game in horseshoe history. :bang:

game -250 (3/6)
year -349 (1-3)
kk 0-0 (2-1)
promo 45 (200)
tier 1301 (26.02 hrs, -$13.41/hr)

[tucker6]

How often do you play limit vs no limit (by %), and which limit game (3/6 etc) do you find plays best to your strengths?

[proximity]

How often do you play limit vs no limit (by %), and which limit game (3/6 etc) do you find plays best to your strengths?


for 2014 and 2015 i played 107 no limit games and 107 limit games.

limit 65-42 +923
nl 60-47 -222

horseshoe only plays 3/6 in limit but i like to play there because of how they treat the player. this post from "that other site" is the absolute stones:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49079388&postcount=1933

and i wouldn't worry about dealers or getting screwed out of rulings. there are a couple that maybe make me cringe a little when i see them coming towards the box but it's mostly an alert to me to keep my eye on the button.

[proximity]

back at the beautiful horseshoe baltimore and we're slow out of the blocks yet again. :mad:

an hour in and i'm -46 and haven't won a single hand.

with two overs though a flop checks around and when i turn the top end of an open ended straight draw i take a stab at what appears to be an orphaned pot.

two players come with me and i miss the river but get a sense that they were drawing too and fire out a rare horseshoe limit bluff that folds them both out and gives me my first pot of the contest.

fifteen minutes later i flop a set of jacks from the small blind to take my second pot and move ahead for the game.

my lead is short lived.

with KK i can't fold anyone out on a flop of 985.

another nine falls on the turn and still facing 4-5 villains i almost HAVE to be beaten now.

but NOBODY has a nine.

and NOBODY has 76, or a set, or two pair, or AA.

but when a humble two falls on the river (yes, a 2)one of these donkeys flips over 22 for a rivered boat. :faint: :faint: :faint:

around this time a new player named star enters the game to my immediate left and our rivalry begins almost right away.

with AKs i raise and star calls with A7 off.

flop: A76 turn: x river:5 (gives another player a straight)

winner: none

with KK i raise and star calls with QJ off.

flop: AKT. :faint: turn: x river: A :)

winner: proximity

with AK i raise. star calls with 86.

flop: AJ6 turn: 7 river: 8

winner: star

with K9s (small blind) vs J8

flop: Q9X. (one spade)

the action here checks to the button who bets and i fire out a brilliant check raise to (1)price out all the droolers and (2) there's a good chance i'm actually winning the hand but star isn't having it. she calls with her J8....

turn: ten. :rolleyes:

winner: star

the power of good starting hands was with me in this one.

but the force, however, was not.

game -82 (3/6)
year -431 (1-4)
kk 1-1 (3-2)
promo 45 (245)
tier 1704 (34.08 hrs, -12.64 hr)

[proximity]

it's a pleasant sunday morning as i travel on 83s to the beautiful horseshoe baltimore with hopes of reversing this nightmare of a start to 2016.

the cards aren't cooperating.

i quickly lose with KK and twice with AK before flopping trip aces from the big blind and taking down a mini pot on the flop.

with KTs i lead out on a king high flop but hardly lose anyone and a donkey in late position even raises me.

i hang in and do beat the donk (who only has K7 off, lol) but an all-in player ends up hitting a straight so i only drag the side pot.

then it's back to the losing.

AQ loses twice and with 33 i lead out into two other players on a flop of J44.

they both call and i check when an ace falls on the turn.

the first player (a newcomer who thinks he's good) bets and the second player ( a guy who usually at least starts games playing somewhat well) calls.

the second player almost definitely has me beat so i fold and watch my three fall on the river. :mad:

the villains chop with A3 and A5.

i can't even believe the second player would've called the flop with that and must have cringed a little as star from the last report has entered the game beside me and asks if i folded the winning hand.

i explain to star (and pretty much the table) that "when i bet the flop i was winning the hand but when i fell behind on the turn i checked and folded because i wasn't getting the odds to draw to a two outer."

maybe another hour of losing and it's time to head back to pennsylvania.

nice sunday drive to drag a pot and a half though. :rolleyes:

game -115 (3/6)
year -546 (1-5)
kk 0-1 (3-3)
promo 35 (280)
tier 1868 (37.34 hrs, -14.61 hr)

[proximity]

back at the beautiful horseshoe baltimore for another session of 3/6 hold 'em.

today's game actually starts strong as i flop trip 4s on my first big blind, win a couple times with 77, turn a flush with AQs, and back into two pair with AK.

i'm sitting beside a good limit player named john from the old charles town games and we're again discussing the classic hockey movie youngblood; this time planning a sequel where (after highly successful nhl career) dean youngblood (rob lowe) and (his now wife) jessie (cynthia gibb) return as owner and gm of the hamilton mustangs.

back on the felt a seattle seahawks fan button straddles my big blind and i make a bad mistake when i "just call" with AJs.

i'm leading after an A93 flop but another player called the $6 with 97 off and turns his nine.

there's certainly no guarantee that such a player would've folded for $9 but we should've at least found out instead of having to live with regrets about the hand.

shortly after this i flop trip dimes with QTs (KTT) but another player has KT and for the first time i find myself behind in the game.

eventually the table breaks but i get immediate seating at the other limit game where i spot paceadvantage member track collector playing 1-3 nl at an adjacent table.

we aren't the only horseplayers in attendance however as my neighbor at the new table pulls out a tax slip for a big super he hit in the last race at aqu!!

http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=AQU&raceDate=01/14/2016&cy=USA&rn=9

nice hit!!

i'm staying around even in the game which is delayed temporarily when the horseplayer lashes out at a drunk girl who is slowing down the game.

words are exchanged and the horseplayer calls "rihanna" a (let's say) "freezing beach" and rihanna takes great offense and is telling the horseplayer to spell "freezing beach." i haven't seen a rivalry this intense since dean youngblood vs carl racki.

eventually the floor gives both players a warning but not long after this rihanna again brings up the incident and gets kicked out.

it's too bad i didn't get kicked out too at this point. i do flop quad aces to regain a small lead but down the stretch i drop hands with AK, AQ, AQ, A7s, A9s, A2s (flops an ace from big blind).......

after losing only eighteen games in the first two years horseshoe was open, i've now dropped six in the first half of january alone. :bang:

game -57 (3/6)
year -603 (1-6)
kk 0-0 (3-3)
promo 45 (325)
tier 2236 (44.72 hrs, -13.48/hr)

[tucker6]

You ever get the feeling that you are a no limit player in a limit game? Maybe it's just me but your style and thought process would seem to be better suited there. Jmo.

[proximity]

You ever get the feeling that you are a no limit player in a limit game? Maybe it's just me but your style and thought process would seem to be better suited there. Jmo.

no, i feel i'm more of a natural limit player and actually started winning in limit pretty much immediately while it took me some time to get comfortable in no limit. the results of the two years kinda show this too although prior to that i did score all of my biggest wins in no limit, so the potential is there to make a sudden jump. unfortunately it's just never happened during the two years of reports here.

[thaskalos]

no, i feel i'm more of a natural limit player and actually started winning in limit pretty much immediately while it took me some time to get comfortable in no limit. the results of the two years kinda show this too although prior to that i did score all of my biggest wins in no limit, so the potential is there to make a sudden jump. unfortunately it's just never happened during the two years of reports here.

Why do you think that is?

[proximity]

Why do you think that is?

it could be a number of factors.

maybe i was more of donkey then and there was more overall variance in the results? meaning maybe i got some pots i didn't deserve?

one of the last 4 digit wins i had though i got on a roll and just kept playing all night and into the next day. after a few early wins i hit an ace high flush and got a kid to call an all in for several hundred dollars...... he didn't even see the flush was out there. another hand i was behind with a set of fives (straight) but hit another five on the river. into the following afternoon i stacked another kid with a turned boat and eventually got another guy to drop $300 plus pre flop when i had AA. so nothing really out of the ordinary in that particular game??? idk?

in horses 107 days would've just been a few months for me but in poker i just don't have the documented experience so maybe it's just not enough games?

what are some long streaks for you without what dick mitchell would've called "christmas" poker wins??

[proximity]

well a 1-6 start with $603 of losses ain't they way we were hoping to start out 2016 but one of the good things about the making the reports here on paceadvantage is that i can look back and see that i've been here before and that there's no need to panic.

here's one horrible streak; the august 2014 "vacation" where i went 1-5 and -$571 before coming home and suffering three more losses.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1696061&postcount=416

eventually my 2014 run of bad luck would end though on a sunday night when i entered the horseshoe baltimore for the first time..... never expecting that it would become my "home" casino and give me all the great benefits that it does!!

and for today's action we find ourselves back at horseshoe and i start fast, notching wins with ATs turning an ace and 66 flopping a set.

T9 of diamonds would river a flush but fall to a rivered boat but i would come right back with AJs turning a flush and getting raised!!

about two hours later i expand my lead when i raise TT and see an ATX flop.

running threes on the turn and river and i'm raised again by a player with A3 and move ahead about $150!!

down the stretch though i drop pots with KK (shocker) and QQ (possibly 2016's kk?) and can only manage a split with AA.

frustrating finish for sure, but good to be back in the win column still!!

game +102 (3/6)
year -501 (2-6)
kk 0-1 (3-4)
promo 45 (370)
tier 2654
53.08 hours, -9.44/hr

[thaskalos]

it could be a number of factors.

maybe i was more of donkey then and there was more overall variance in the results? meaning maybe i got some pots i didn't deserve?

one of the last 4 digit wins i had though i got on a roll and just kept playing all night and into the next day. after a few early wins i hit an ace high flush and got a kid to call an all in for several hundred dollars...... he didn't even see the flush was out there. another hand i was behind with a set of fives (straight) but hit another five on the river. into the following afternoon i stacked another kid with a turned boat and eventually got another guy to drop $300 plus pre flop when i had AA. so nothing really out of the ordinary in that particular game??? idk?

in horses 107 days would've just been a few months for me but in poker i just don't have the documented experience so maybe it's just not enough games?

what are some long streaks for you without what dick mitchell would've called "christmas" poker wins??

A few years ago, I got disenchanted with horse racing and decided to concentrate on NL holdem. I played at a Hammond Indiana casino...because that was the closest place where the limits were decent and the buy-ins were full. I don't like buying in short, because I like to charge players full-price for their mistakes...and if this means that my OWN mistakes will be costlier as well, so be it. I figure that's the whole point in playing no limit. Anyway...I played 5 days a week, for an average of about 7 hours a day...and, although my results were typically erratic...I managed to record an overall upward trend for about the first 7 months. And then I started running unusually bad. Set over set, flush over flush, all-in losses while I was a huge favorite, etc...for an unbelievably long period of time. Over a period of 5 weeks, I lost the equivalent of 31 buy-ins...which was $31,000. It bothered me to no end, because I was convinced that I wasn't getting outplayed...but the magnitude of the loss staggered me...having never experienced a losing streak of this type before. But I had talked to plenty of other serious NL players, and had read extensively about the game myself...so, I knew that this type of bad run was well within the realm of probability.

I played through the losing streak, while doing my best to maintain my composure....and, things started to turn around. I finished the year with a decent enough profit to entice me to devote the NEXT year to poker as well. The next year was solidly profitable as well. I've gotten so encouraged, in fact...that I have been betting the horses less and less...having come to the realization that poker is more "my style", as far as gambling goes. I now play poker 4 times a week...and horses 3 times a week.

My advice...in case you are interested:

Poker isn't like bowling, or shooting pool. You DON'T get better simply by playing the game. You have to do a lot of serious thinking AWAY from the table...if you want to improve as a poker player. And this isn't just me talking. Ask ANY serious poker player...and he'll tell you the exact same thing. Unless you endeavor to become the best poker player that you can be, you won't really know if you are "running bad"...or if you are being outplayed.

I can't get into specifics with you...because I know nothing about you or your game. But I am always here just in case you think of something that I might be able to help you with. I started off as a HORRIBLE poker player...and a couple of people helped me to find my way in this game. I'd like to repay the favor.

[tucker6]

no, i feel i'm more of a natural limit player and actually started winning in limit pretty much immediately while it took me some time to get comfortable in no limit. the results of the two years kinda show this too although prior to that i did score all of my biggest wins in no limit, so the potential is there to make a sudden jump. unfortunately it's just never happened during the two years of reports here.
I asked my question because you seem to have a pretty decent handle on situational poker. Where I see a problem is in your opponents. In my opinion only, people play low limit poker to limit their financial exposure to bad plays. Your reports are chock full of asinine calls and raises from so called 'donkeys'. But are they really donkeys if their strategy is to play more marginal hands with the limit as a financial cover?? They are playing to their individual strategy, but are you recognizing this? If you have 2 or 3 of those people at one table, the number of bad beats will be reflected in your financial outcome. To me, you cannot decrease extremely aggressive play by others as described in your posts except to remove yourself from that situation by finding a game (higher limit or no limit) that penalizes loose play. Just my two pennies.

[Rookies]

I asked my question because you seem to have a pretty decent handle on situational poker. Where I see a problem is in your opponents. In my opinion only, people play low limit poker to limit their financial exposure to bad plays. Your reports are chock full of asinine calls and raises from so called 'donkeys'. But are they really donkeys if their strategy is to play more marginal hands with the limit as a financial cover?? They are playing to their individual strategy, but are you recognizing this? If you have 2 or 3 of those people at one table, the number of bad beats will be reflected in your financial outcome. To me, you cannot decrease extremely aggressive play by others as described in your posts except to remove yourself from that situation by finding a game (higher limit or no limit) that penalizes loose play. Just my two pennies.

Sounds like an accurate summation to me. At the lowest of stakes, a majority will play for the love of the game- knowing they can never be really crushed on a given hand/ day. So, they are likely to jump in to as many outside shots as they possibly can. Obviously, this hurts more serious players, who know the exact odds of a given situation and play accordingly.

These others likely BOTH don't know & don't care.

[thaskalos]

Sounds like an accurate summation to me. At the lowest of stakes, a majority will play for the love of the game- knowing they can never be really crushed on a given hand/ day. So, they are likely to jump in to as many outside shots as they possibly can. Obviously, this hurts more serious players, who know the exact odds of a given situation and play accordingly.

These others likely BOTH don't know & don't care.
I don't understand. Don't the serious players WANT to play against lousy players? Would they rather play against EXPERTS instead?

[Rookies]

I don't understand. Don't the serious players WANT to play against lousy players? Would they rather play against EXPERTS instead?

Sure. But, in the randomness of statistical variance, the lousy players (multiple ones) are going to take their shots, because the penalty is minimal. A higher stakes would rule out such persons,taking against the odds, chances.

[tucker6]

I don't understand. Don't the serious players WANT to play against lousy players? Would they rather play against EXPERTS instead?
Under the right conditions, sure. Let's take your question to the extreme. An expert is playing a table full of donkeys at penny ante hold 'em. Who is throwing in their cards at a penny raise? No one. Therefore, everyone will play every hand no matter the odds. How does the expert gain the advantage under that circumstance? He doesn't. It becomes a game of pure chance.

If one were to move that scenario back a little to 3/6 limit, then more donkeys will fold than if it were penny poker, but there will still be some players that stay in because the game is still 'cheap' to them. That is what I was saying. The serious player wants to play lousy players at the price point where poker psychology gives you confidence that the price to play will cause the appropriate fight or flight response. To me, low limit hold 'em does not get you there.

[thaskalos]

Under the right conditions, sure. Let's take your question to the extreme. An expert is playing a table full of donkeys at penny ante hold 'em. Who is throwing in their cards at a penny raise? No one. Therefore, everyone will play every hand no matter the odds. How does the expert gain the advantage under that circumstance? He doesn't. It becomes a game of pure chance.

If one were to move that scenario back a little to 3/6 limit, then more donkeys will fold than if it were penny poker, but there will still be some players that stay in because the game is still 'cheap' to them. That is what I was saying. The serious player wants to play lousy players at the price point where poker psychology gives you confidence that the price to play will cause the appropriate fight or flight response. To me, low limit hold 'em does not get you there.

Theoretically, you are right. But PRACTICALLY...things aren't what they theoretically appear to be. COUNTLESS players move up in stakes before they are ready...because they want to be able to bet more so they can "protect their hand". But, do you know what happens when they do that? They quickly find out that the bad beats are just as numerous at the higher stakes also...and they now cost a lot MORE than they did before. And when they see that...then they decide to move to NO LIMIT...so they could REALLY put the fear into their opponents. And when they get to no limit, and see that a single mistake can wipe away their whole stack...then their heads start reeling...and they don't know WHICH way to turn.

Here's the deal...as I see it:

Low limit holdem isn't unbeatable because the players are horrible and they never fold. It's unbeatable because the RAKE makes it virtually impossible for anyone to win anything worthwhile at those stakes. There is a unique nature to low limit holdem, which some "serious players" don't quite understand. When a player calls a late bet with a very speculative holding, it may APPEAR to be a stupid play...but, in reality, it is often the correct play to make. The pot in these typical "No Foldem Holdem" games is so big by the time the late rounds come around...that even the LONGSHOT draws have the correct odds to warrant taking a stab at the sizable pot.

When you play low limit holdem...then you have to know from the outset that virtually every hand that is dealt will go down to the showdown stage. There is no bluffing in those games...you must ALWAYS show down the best hand in order to take down the pot. When people realize that...they wrongly assume that the best way to play is to sit down and wait for premium starting hands...and limp in with a speculative hand only when they are in position. This isn't the best way to play in today's low-limit games.

Here's the best way to play...IMO:

http://www.amazon.com/Small-Stakes-Hold-Winning-Expert-ebook/dp/B003TXSRJQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453144309&sr=1-2&keywords=low+limit+holdem

Now, this isn't an approach for the feint-hearted, and the variance is quite high...but the variance ALWAYS runs high in those games. You don't sit down at a 3/6 table...and wait for the premium hands. The game is much more complicated than that...because the RAKE is your biggest opponent in those games.

Proximity has been told repeatedly by others here that the 3/6 limit game is near-unbeatable. The 3/6 game IS near-unbeatable...but that doesn't mean that success in imminent if he suddenly moves to the 6/12 game. You must know yourself as a player...and you must be able to accurately assess your own game. As I said in my prior post...you don't become a better poker player just by sitting down and playing the game. You have to dedicate yourself to some serious study AWAY from the table.

In poker, we don't lose because we are playing against idiot players. That's just a convenient EXCUSE. We lose because of only two reasons. Either the rake is too high for the stakes...or we are being outplayed. That's IT!

[proximity]

finally readers of the 2015 reports probably noticed that i had terrible luck with pocket kings. fellow pa member and west coast limit expert dilanesp noted that he won 71% online with this great hand and i'll probably never match this number since i'm usually facing probably twice the field sizes he is but for 2016 we'll track the w-l record of this powerful hand and see how i do!!


in the very first post of the thread i acknowledge that i'm playing in a high variance game (a lot of small heartbreaks) but (rake, bbj, tip aside) dollar for dollar the game will be more profitable than dilane's 200-400 because of the greater number of bad (yes, BAD) players playing negative roi LOSING hands.

i'm playing in a game that's been historically profitable for me as documented here in the 2014 and 2015 threads. (36-18 +1557)

for some (deelo from lincoln, ne) i can't win or "you can't beat 3/6" and for others i'm not a good player because i'm not winning "x" big bets an hour. but my truth between these two extremes is impossible to believe????? :confused:

training/study

my main training/study for limit is david sklansky's original little yellow book and his thicker red "small stakes" book that he co-authored with miller and malmuth. there was another source from an online site where i copied down the actual REAL LIFE profitable hands from each position.

for no limit the bart hanson articles and website is my main source of information. note that bart hanson is the main cardplayer magazine authority for no limit CASH games. if i ever went for live coaching i'd probably go with the great no limit cash player cuserounder at horseshoe. maybe he's too lag for my own personality though?

current goal/philosophy

right now i'm basically a comp whore as far as poker goes. i do think if i keep my focus on going to horseshoe and putting in the hours that i have a great chance to make money from the games but i felt that everything bad that happened last year (the illness especially) really kept me from getting everything i could from the experience of making diamond and i don't want to let the opportunity pass again.

so far i'm 9-9 in my scheduled sessions.

now i know it's like....."9-9? he's driving to a casino and playing a game."

well, it's not quite that easy. as discussed in 2015 i do have a job and i work two long shifts and one regular shift a week. on poker days i get up and work out, drive about 94 miles to horseshoe, play, drive 94 miles home, have a second workout, sleep, repeat......

one thing i could do is get some of the tapes thaskalos recommended to vic's friend to listen to on the drive. coming home though it is good to relax and listen to some music.

sorry for the rant, but just some insight into my life and poker habits which may or may not help people reading about the tour.

[tucker6]

I can't disagree with anything you've written Gus. We seem to agree for the most part, but I will defer to your higher degree of experience at the table.

[thaskalos]

I can't disagree with anything you've written Gus. We seem to agree for the most part, but I will defer to your higher degree of experience at the table.

No...don't defer. Tell me where we disagree.

I have some time to kill...and this is one of my favorite topics.

[tucker6]

No...don't defer. Tell me where we disagree.

I have some time to kill...and this is one of my favorite topics.
Okay, but will be in a little bit. I don't think we really disagree. I think we just see slightly different shades of gray at the margins.

[thaskalos]

training/study
my main training/study for limit is david sklansky's original little yellow book and his thicker red "small stakes" book that he co-authored with miller and malmuth. there was another source from an online site where i copied down the actual REAL LIFE profitable hands from each position.


I happen to be holding this book in my hands right now. Here is what Ed Miller writes on page #14.

"Small stakes holdem games are notoriously loose. Some people seem to think they are too loose. "Nobody folds. It turns the game into a crapshoot. It's like playing bingo." The implication is that your opponents' ultra-loose play can somehow prevent you from winning in the long run, just as if you were playing craps or bingo.

This notion is, of course, absurd."

[tucker6]

I happen to be holding this book in my hands right now. Here is what Ed Miller writes on page #14.

"Small stakes holdem games are notoriously loose. Some people seem to think they are too loose. "Nobody folds. It turns the game into a crapshoot. It's like playing bingo." The implication is that your opponents' ultra-loose play can somehow prevent you from winning in the long run, just as if you were playing craps or bingo.

This notion is, of course, absurd."
Okay, short reply for Thask since I like him.

One may find it hard to digest that I equally believe in what you quoted and my post #33. The reason both can be true is through the understanding of psychology. It is employed subconsciously in every aspect of our lives. It is when we fail to consciously employ the use of psychology at the table that a game of 3/6 goes from a winning strategy to a crapshoot.

How many times do we underestimate/overestimate people based on their appearance, what they drive, how they talk, their mannerisms? I'll pick on Proximity a little and say that the use of the term 'donkey' unnecessarily pigeonholes his mindset as to how that person may play. Some probably are donkeys. Others may be imprinting what they wish you to think onto you in hopes that you play them a certain way. One should play an opponent based on the odds and how they play their game, and not anything else. Difficult to do if you only see them for two hours once a month, but tendencies can be discerned fairly quickly and used beneficially. Take notes of positions they've played for future reference. I used to play a guy that I thought was inferior and a loose cannon in his profession. I carried that mindset over onto the poker table, and he repeatedly beat me because I left my opinion of him personally influence my game. I was more aggressive at times than I should have been and assumed a position I had no right to assume. He used his persona to influence my betting strategies.

Long story short, know thyself, and understand your opponents as best you can without getting bedazzled by the antics. It's all psychology.

[thaskalos]

Okay, short reply for Thask since I like him.

One may find it hard to digest that I equally believe in what you quoted and my post #33. The reason both can be true is through the understanding of psychology. It is employed subconsciously in every aspect of our lives. It is when we fail to consciously employ the use of psychology at the table that a game of 3/6 goes from a winning strategy to a crapshoot.

How many times do we underestimate/overestimate people based on their appearance, what they drive, how they talk, their mannerisms? I'll pick on Proximity a little and say that the use of the term 'donkey' unnecessarily pigeonholes his mindset as to how that person may play. Some probably are donkeys. Others may be imprinting what they wish you to think onto you in hopes that you play them a certain way. One should play an opponent based on the odds and how they play their game, and not anything else. Difficult to do if you only see them for two hours once a month, but tendencies can be discerned fairly quickly and used beneficially. Take notes of positions they've played for future reference. I used to play a guy that I thought was inferior and a loose cannon in his profession. I carried that mindset over onto the poker table, and he repeatedly beat me because I left my opinion of him personally influence my game. I was more aggressive at times than I should have been and assumed a position I had no right to assume. He used his persona to influence my betting strategies.

Long story short, know thyself, and understand your opponents as best you can without getting bedazzled by the antics. It's all psychology.

I am still waiting to see where we disagree. :)

[proximity]

if we define dick mitchell "christmas" days as say the top 2 percent of days then these games only happen once every fifty sessions on average. so that it didn't happen in 107 games isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

so for thaskalos or other cash game players here my question is what is the longest streak in terms of games that you've had between top two percent "christmas" sessions?

[thaskalos]

if we define dick mitchell "christmas" days as say the top 2 percent of days then these games only happen once every fifty sessions on average. so that it didn't happen in 107 games isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

so for thaskalos or other cash game players here my question is what is the longest streak in terms of games that you've had between top two percent "christmas" sessions?

The better player will always get outdrawn more often that he will outdraw the other player...simply because the better player will be the one who gets his money in right more often.

I don't know how many "Christmas" days I've had...but I know for a fact that my Christmas days have been greatly outnumbered by my HALLOWEEN days.

[tucker6]

I am still waiting to see where we disagree. :)
"I can't disagree with anything you've written Gus"

"We seem to agree for the most part"

"I don't think we really disagree"

So as I look back and read your post again, I don't think we disagree. It's just how we word our posts is all.

I do have a question for Proximity though, and it is something you said in a prior post Thask. "You don't sit down at a 3/6 table...and wait for the premium hands". Would you describe this as an issue or non-issue for you?

[proximity]

I do have a question for Proximity though, and it is something you said in a prior post Thask. "You don't sit down at a 3/6 table...and wait for the premium hands". Would you describe this as an issue or non-issue for you?

while i'm not a complete slave to it, for the limit games i play i do have a rough starting hand chart comprised of basically the top 50 hands in the game. (basically long term profitable hands)

[proximity]

back again at horseshoe for exciting 3/6 action!!

it's ovente glass electric kettle day and splash pots for all scores in the two nfl playoff games!!

http://www.amazon.com/Ovente-KG83B-Glass-Electric-Kettle/dp/B00DEPGY7G

i take an early lead in this one with TT but the game quickly gets short-handed and as it struggles to stay afloat, so do i.

finally the game starts to fill up but i'm pushing -$80 when i river a flush with AQs that puts me back in the game.

when the games start our table gets drawn for the second splash pot which was $150 for carolina's pick six!!

the guy to my right straddles and i have to call on the button with T7 and get a rare 2016 break:

flop 977 :) :) :)

turn: 9 :mad: :mad: :mad:

river: x, and i flip over my sevens full. amazingly there's no nines out and i chop this monster with whizz's friend augusto who had 74 and caught up with me on the turn. i'll take it though!! :)

this is actually the first splash pot i've ever hit and for accounting purposes i decide to just include it in game results since it influences the play of the hands and i don't subtract from bonus and add to game results for splash pots that i don't win.

anyhow, the chopped splash pot moves me ahead for the game and i look to pad my lead with our old friend KK.

flop: K22 :cool:

a guy limped with aces here, and while i did crack them you actually want an ace to fall on the turn or river here because there's a $750 bad beat at the horseshoe for kings full beaten. (anything but the case deuce because players must use BOTH hole cards to trigger the bad beat)

no ace here and we miss the bad beat but extend our game lead and start our first rush of the year when i flop a set of 3s in the very next hand!!

the 3s hold on despite a scary river card and i follow them up with wins with both AK and then A5 (big blind) for a rare four winning hands in a row!!

eventually i move ahead over $300 for the game but KK gets cracked by a gentleman who limped utg with 76.

our table gets called for another splash pot that again gets straddled but my 33 doesn't get close and i'm ice cold for the rest of the game.

it's frustrating to get +$300 and then just lose for hours and hours but that's the nature of the beast. on the bright side it's my first two game winning streak of the year and i've got some positive momentum heading into this week's action.

game +142 (3/6)
year -359 (3-6)
kk 1-1 (4-5)
promo 35 (405)
tier 2897 (57.94 hrs, -6.20/hr)

[proximity]

with forecasts of up to two feet of snow predicted for baltimore i needed to alter my schedule a bit and came up with a plan to get my promo chips and play a long thursday session at horseshoe; long enough to trigger a tier credit bonus equal to 2.5 hours of play and then play 2.5 hours at maryland live! to keep the tier/50 equation as accurate as possible in determining my "hours." (md live! also offered me some free slots play, which didn't hurt.)

then before leaving town i could swing back over to horseshoe and get my weekend promo chips after 6:00 am on friday morning.

[proximity]

it's going to have to be a ten (+) hour session at shoe to trigger the (2.5 hour) bonus but i'm certainly no stranger to long sessions at horseshoe and after picking up another $45 of promo chips on my way in the door i jump right into the action.

i don't do much for the first hour but eventually strike with AQ to take a slim $5 lead.

there's been a lot of tension in these thursday games (see last week: rihanna vs the horseplayer) and the trend continues today with a fight over a $28 ($2 short) buy-in.

personally i wish there were $100 cage ONLY buy-ins for this game as the repeated $30 buy ins at the table only serve to slow down a game that's slow enough already. 99% of the time the $30 buyer has $100+ behind in his wallet anyhow so why the multiple buy-ins?

then each new dealer has to take all the bills out of the well; sometimes counting them multiple times which causes more delays as do the every two or three dealer fills...... sigh.

anyhow the guy eventually gets $2 more on the table and it's cards in air again and when it is i river a winning jack high flush with JJ to move ahead about $35 or "slightly more than one buy-in" to about half of my opponents, lol. :rolleyes:

about 30 minutes later paceadvantage's own track collector shows up behind my table. he's only passing through on non-poker business so i don't have any results for him although (as usual) his presence brings me good luck as i flop a set of sevens.

flop: 763

a jack on the turn is pretty safe here but even with the luck of track collector it's never an easy game as i somehow survive a 4 on the river and move ahead about $80.

it seems like i spend the next ten hours losing with AT and AK but overall i end up gaining $3 more and when the game starts to slow down i decide to cash out and head over to maryland live!.

in the middle of it all i do notch a win with KK to even my record at 5-5 on the year with the cowboys. :)

game +83 (3/6)
year -276 (4-6)
kk 1-0 (5-5)
promo 45 (450)
tier 3460 (69.2 hrs, -3.99/hr)

[proximity]

over at mdlive! for some late night/early morning 4/8 limit hold em action!

i'm warmly greeted at the table by a cutie with a batman shirt but with AA from the big blind my welcome isn't as warm.

flop:922

AA is good at showdown until one villain flips over 62 from middle position.

i see the 62 on the table but play dumb asking "what's he have?" and adding "62?? but i was in the big blind" for good measure. :rolleyes:

with A9s though it's me who gets lucky when i'm outkicked by AJ until a 9 hits the river to give me the winning two pair.

it's more big blind misfortune however when i call a raise with T9s and flop the low end of a straight. (KQJ)

with the bettor in late position i plan to check-raise here but the flop ends up checking around and when a nine hits the turn i end up chopping with T8.

half way through though i get aces again and this time they hold up and move me over $80 ahead and before it's over i'll win another pot with QQ, eventually finishing +95.

i never thought i could feel sympathy for a guy who cracks my aces with 62 but before i leave mr 62 suffers a horrible beat.

after turning quad tens mr 62 is in terrific position to win the $500 hourly high hand bonus until a player at another table gets a straight flush with just 17 seconds left in the hour. :faint:

brutal.

game +95 (4/8)
year -181 (5-6)
kk 0-0 (5-5)
promo 45 (495)
tier 3585 (71.7 hrs, -2.52/hr)

[Rookies]

"i'm warmly greeted at the table by a cutie with a batman shirt"

And a blizzard in the offing?

Opportunity came knocking there, Proximity! :rolleyes:

[proximity]

"i'm warmly greeted at the table by a cutie with a batman shirt"

And a blizzard in the offing?

Opportunity came knocking there, Proximity! :rolleyes:

lol, i think i was about the ugliest prospect in the room at that point.

maybe second ugliest if we include dealers? :D

[salty]

Does anyone have any good reading material on 7 card stud hi?

I'm trying to take a break from nl holdem. Health people would refer to it as a cleanse/detox. I just played 1-5 stud live for the first time ever and enjoyed the change of pace.

So far I haven't found any advanced thoughts anywhere.

[proximity]

salty,

i really enjoyed winning 7-card stud by ashley adams and have thought about playing this at borgata.

i've never read the "advanced" book from 2+2.

charm city whizz could possibly add some insights about stud hi as i believe he usually plays 40/80 on trips to connecticut...

prox

[salty]

Thanks I'll have to check that out. Hopefully whizz does have some suggestions since foxwoods is where I'm going to be playing.

[proximity]

tier 3585 (71.7 hrs, -2.52/hr)

it's been a slow start to the year so far but in a rare break caesar's has awarded me a 700 tier credit bonus, the infusion bringing our total up to 4285.

i made an adjustment to my result spreadsheet to account for this so the "hours" data will still be correct.

--proximity

[proximity]

our next outing starts a little later than usual and when i finally arrive at the horseshoe i spend the first 90 minutes losing.

eventually though i flop middle pair with 65s from the button.

the small blind flops top pair (Q63) but the action checks around to me and i bet and ultimately win the pot after turning a second 6.

when the big blind comes around i flop top two with QJ and despite the slow start actually move ahead $7.

meanwhile "shooter" from previous reports enters the game and turns a baby flush (spades) and despite the board pairing he seems happy when the dealer slams down a second king on the river.

however, one player didn't act on the hand and the king has to be reshuffled.

shooter isn't pleased but rules are rules and you'd think he'd be dead in the water when the new river card is the ace of spades..... but not at horseshoe, where he even rakes in a few extra bets. :faint: :faint: :faint:

at+$7 i'm hoping to get a flush of my own and extend my lead but when i do my queen high flush is beaten out by a king high flush and i fall behind yet again.

one final chance with AA but the hand gets overtaken on the turn by 87 (bb) and ultimately on the river by a Q9 that called two cold pre flop.

didn't sklansky, miller, and malmuth say you should almost never cold call a raise? :rolleyes:

game -56 (3/6)
year -237 (5-7)
kk 0-0 (5-5)
promo 45 (540)
tier 4462 (75.24 hrs, -3.15/hr)

[proximity]

back again at horseshoe for a longer session to boost my average daily play.

once again i start cold as ice.

flush draws and open ended straight draws are missing but about an hour in i look to get on the board with AA. :cool:

a stunning young lady at the far end of the table has other plans in mind however, as she calls two cold with dolly parton off suit. (95)

flop: Q93 turn: 5 :rolleyes: and of course they never.... EVER get counterfeited on the river (k). :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

that's ok though because ten minutes later i'm going to strike with.... KK. :cool:

there's a problem though as both my kings are black and we see a flop of three diamonds. i'm still leading at this point but another diamond on the turn puts me out of my misery.

ten minutes after this however, i look down at two black kings yet again. :cool: :confused:

this time, however, i turn a set and drag my first pot of the contest; cutting my deficit to about $60. wins with AJs and AA get me to within $20 of even and provide some optimism before i hit yet another major 2016 cold spell.

eventually with AKs i flop a king that's tons the best in a hand that was four or five bet preflop and my deficit is again cut to only double digits (<$100).

two wins with AQ put me to within $65 of even but AA gets cracked by a guy who limped utg with Q7 off and we're off and running on yet another downward spiral.

QQ is winning following a flop of KT9 but when a buffalo hits the turn i drop the pot to a chaser who stays with 55. :rolleyes:

later KT actually gets folded to me on the button and i raise first in.

the big blind folds but the small blind called with J3 and of course sees a jack high flop.

everything's going wrong but "only" minus $127 i'm still within range to mount a comeback but instead continue to slide downhill.

KK loses to a dominated hand that (of course) hits a flush and when a set of sevens fall to a runner-runner straight i find myself down over $200.

i hang tough however and do win some hands to start to possibly, maybe creep back into it.

when i'm dealt AK though the king hits my hand, flips over, and has to be burned after it's replaced with an offsuit rag.

i fold.

flop: AKx. turn: x river: k. :bang:

finally with QJ from late position i see a flop of AKJ and check behind when the action is checked to me.

turn: ten!! :) (i bet and two players call)

river: queen :faint: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :faint: :rolleyes:

"just check it" i blurt out (hoping not to drive up the rake) as an early position player moves for his chips..... but he tosses them in anyhow.

thanks alot. :rolleyes:

game -146 (3/6)
year -383 (5-8)
kk 1-2 (6-7)
promo 80 (620)
tier 5274 (88.98 hrs, -$4.30/hr)

[proximity]

on an upcoming friday (or possibly saturday, feb 13) i will be having a diamond dinner at horseshoe baltimore casino and would like to take this time to invite any readers (with established posting histories :rolleyes: ) who live in the baltimore area or will be visiting the area during this time.

no $$ required; caesar's total rewards and proximity cover it all.

last year pa members ronsmac and wiffleball whizz joined me at binions for great food and racing conversation. fun times!! :ThmbUp:

please post here or pm me if interested.

--proximity

[ManU918]

on an upcoming friday (or possibly saturday, feb 13) i will be having a diamond dinner at horseshoe baltimore casino and would like to take this time to invite any readers (with established posting histories :rolleyes: ) who live in the baltimore area or will be visiting the area during this time.

no $$ required; caesar's total rewards and proximity cover it all.

last year pa members ronsmac and wiffleball whizz joined me at binions for great food and racing conversation. fun times!! :ThmbUp:

please post here or pm me if interested.

--proximity

WPT Deepstacks are at Parx from 2/10-3/3. Event 1 Day 1's are 2/10-2/13 making day 2 2/14. Maybe I'll play on Wednesday (2/10) and if need be Thursday (2/11) and shoot down and meet up Friday or Saturday. I've been looking for a reason to hit up the horseshoe in Baltimore.

If I cant make it and you're around during the WSOP circuit at the horseshoe from 3/24-4/06 let me know as I'm sure I'll be heading down for a few events.

Just curious can you bet horses at the horseshoe?

[proximity]

Just curious can you bet horses at the horseshoe?

yes!! and in fact just about a month ago i was standing in the racebook with ccw when i looked up and actually saw one of those rare "free" or "automatic +ev" races at the meadowlands where the pool % bet on scott zeron is > the takeout!! :D

[ManU918]

McKeehen continues his ridiculous run... Just final tabled the WPT WPO Main Event... Final table starts tomorrow at noon.

[charm city whizz]

on an upcoming friday (or possibly saturday, feb 13) i will be having a diamond dinner at horseshoe baltimore casino and would like to take this time to invite any readers (with established posting histories :rolleyes: ) who live in the baltimore area or will be visiting the area during this time.

no $$ required; caesar's total rewards and proximity cover it all.

last year pa members ronsmac and wiffleball whizz joined me at binions for great food and racing conversation. fun times!! :ThmbUp:

please post here or pm me if interested.

--proximity


Count me in👍👍👍👍👍👍

[charm city whizz]

In my casino career finally dealt the big one on a lazy Tuesday morning

Preflop raise is $10 with 4 callers....

Flop Kd Ks Qd

Seat 2 fires out $35 with only 8 seat left he calls the $35

Turn: the ever elusive Jack of diamonds💎💎💎

Seat 2 bets $50 and the 8 seat cuts out 50 in red and calls


River for good measure is the 9 of diamonds

Seat 2 says Check and the 8 seat says check

Seat 2 shows A-10 diamonds for the Royal flush
Seat 8 throws over pocket kings for quads

The mega bad beat is hit and table sits in shock as how does it go check check on my second to last hand of the day lololololo

Guy with Royal flush wins $17500 +500 for the Royal

Quad Kings wins 35,000 and $100 for the Royal flush table bonus😭😭

Other 8 players whack up roughly 17500 and get about 2187 + 100 table bonus for Royal flush

I've heard story's of these hands but never seen it with my own eyes, game was shut down for 15 minutes For verification and when the official light went on after verified game resumed as nothing happened just wierd lololo

Really think the check check on the river killed the suspense of the raise-re raise all in drama with a bad beat type board that you often see

[_______]

In my casino career finally dealt the big one on a lazy Tuesday morning

Preflop raise is $10 with 4 callers....

Flop Kd Ks Qd

Seat 2 fires out $35 with only 8 seat left he calls the $35

Turn: the ever elusive Jack of diamonds💎💎💎

Seat 2 bets $50 and the 8 seat cuts out 50 in red and calls


River for good measure is the 9 of diamonds

Seat 2 says Check and the 8 seat says check

Seat 2 shows A-10 diamonds for the Royal flush
Seat 8 throws over pocket kings for quads

The mega bad beat is hit and table sits in shock as how does it go check check on my second to last hand of the day lololololo

Guy with Royal flush wins $17500 +500 for the Royal

Quad Kings wins 35,000 and $100 for the Royal flush table bonus😭😭

Other 8 players whack up roughly 17500 and get about 2187 + 100 table bonus for Royal flush

I've heard story's of these hands but never seen it with my own eyes, game was shut down for 15 minutes For verification and when the official light went on after verified game resumed as nothing happened just wierd lololo

Really think the check check on the river killed the suspense of the raise-re raise all in drama with a bad beat type board that you often see

How were the tips afterwards? I'd hate to think either of the involved parties stiffed you.

[ManU918]

In my casino career finally dealt the big one on a lazy Tuesday morning

Preflop raise is $10 with 4 callers....

Flop Kd Ks Qd

Seat 2 fires out $35 with only 8 seat left he calls the $35

Turn: the ever elusive Jack of diamonds💎💎💎

Seat 2 bets $50 and the 8 seat cuts out 50 in red and calls


River for good measure is the 9 of diamonds

Seat 2 says Check and the 8 seat says check

Seat 2 shows A-10 diamonds for the Royal flush
Seat 8 throws over pocket kings for quads

The mega bad beat is hit and table sits in shock as how does it go check check on my second to last hand of the day lololololo

Guy with Royal flush wins $17500 +500 for the Royal

Quad Kings wins 35,000 and $100 for the Royal flush table bonus😭😭

Other 8 players whack up roughly 17500 and get about 2187 + 100 table bonus for Royal flush

I've heard story's of these hands but never seen it with my own eyes, game was shut down for 15 minutes For verification and when the official light went on after verified game resumed as nothing happened just wierd lololo

Really think the check check on the river killed the suspense of the raise-re raise all in drama with a bad beat type board that you often see

I hope you walked with a minimum of 5 dimes if not more for dealing it.

[charm city whizz]

Yes tips were good didn't get to 5 dimes as I was hurt by the big winners being paid with checks, the guy who had the big share really did me good as did the players who got a table share

And the next 2 hours I was stuck on the Table is was basically $5 every hand I was happy


On a side note the February promotion is pretty good, top 4 hands of the hour wins a share of $2016 with a minimum of aces full of 2s

In the rare event you're the only qualifier you win 2016 if there is 3 winners 2 winners or 4 winners it gets split, very good for the players

[ManU918]

Yes tips were good didn't get to 5 dimes as I was hurt by the big winners being paid with checks, the guy who had the big share really did me good as did the players who got a table share

And the next 2 hours I was stuck on the Table is was basically $5 every hand I was happy


On a side note the February promotion is pretty good, top 4 hands of the hour wins a share of $2016 with a minimum of aces full of 2s

In the rare event you're the only qualifier you win 2016 if there is 3 winners 2 winners or 4 winners it gets split, very good for the players

Had I been the guy with the quad kings I would have taken the cash and waited for you to finish your shift and handed you 7 dimes cash in the parking lot. I hate cheap people.

[proximity]

Count me in👍👍👍👍👍👍

planning on next saturday, feb 13 for now.

i'll be down in a few hours if you're playing today!!

[Rookies]

In my casino career finally dealt the big one on a lazy Tuesday morning

Preflop raise is $10 with 4 callers....

Flop Kd Ks Qd

Seat 2 fires out $35 with only 8 seat left he calls the $35

Turn: the ever elusive Jack of diamonds💎💎💎

Seat 2 bets $50 and the 8 seat cuts out 50 in red and calls


River for good measure is the 9 of diamonds

Seat 2 says Check and the 8 seat says check

Seat 2 shows A-10 diamonds for the Royal flush
Seat 8 throws over pocket kings for quads

The mega bad beat is hit and table sits in shock as how does it go check check on my second to last hand of the day lololololo

Guy with Royal flush wins $17500 +500 for the Royal

Quad Kings wins 35,000 and $100 for the Royal flush table bonus😭😭

Other 8 players whack up roughly 17500 and get about 2187 + 100 table bonus for Royal flush

I've heard story's of these hands but never seen it with my own eyes, game was shut down for 15 minutes For verification and when the official light went on after verified game resumed as nothing happened just wierd lololo

Really think the check check on the river killed the suspense of the raise-re raise all in drama with a bad beat type board that you often see

THAT is the ultimate Poker story! :ThmbUp: Very cool! Congrats on being part of it.

[dilanesp]

Under the right conditions, sure. Let's take your question to the extreme. An expert is playing a table full of donkeys at penny ante hold 'em. Who is throwing in their cards at a penny raise? No one. Therefore, everyone will play every hand no matter the odds. How does the expert gain the advantage under that circumstance? He doesn't. It becomes a game of pure chance.

If one were to move that scenario back a little to 3/6 limit, then more donkeys will fold than if it were penny poker, but there will still be some players that stay in because the game is still 'cheap' to them. That is what I was saying. The serious player wants to play lousy players at the price point where poker psychology gives you confidence that the price to play will cause the appropriate fight or flight response. To me, low limit hold 'em does not get you there.

Well, low limit hold 'em is problematic because of high rakes.

But your reasoning is dead wrong, and is the standard mistake of 95 percent of poker players. This is a game of math, not psychology. (ESPECIALLY limit, but even no limit, to a great extent.)

Every time someone calls pre-flop with a range that has less than its fair share of equity against the rest of the field, that player is donating money to the other players. Every. Single. Time.

So if a player is playing 85 percent of her hands pre-flop in a full ring game, probably more than 50 percent of the time she is putting money into the pot with a less than proportionate share of the equity. Which means that at least 40 percent of the hands played feature a pot with extra money in there because she made a donation to the rest of the table.

That is pure math. And that's what you want.

In contrast, a bad post-flop player isn't going to be an issue anywhere near 40 percent of the time. First of all, most of the time he won't make a hand at all and will fold it. (As Phil Laak says, it's hard to make a pair in hold 'em.) Second, sometimes he will make the best hand, see showdown, and maximize value (or come close to it). So it's probably less than 5 percent of the time that an issue comes up where the bad post-flop player is going to make a significant mistake that you get to exploit. Most hold 'em hands play themselves.

No, if you put me at a table with 8 players who play post-flop PERFECTLY and play more than twice as many hands as they should pre-flop, and let me play 10,000 hands against them, I will clean their clocks, and for far, far more money than I will ever make against anyone who has post-flop leaks but plays pre-flop reasonably well.

[proximity]

after taking a freshening and missing my first promo chips of the year, a reinvigorated proximity returned to horseshoe for more exciting 3/6 limit action!!

after a couple folds, with two dimes in the pocket i raise first in and drive out most of the field..... but one cowboy hangs in with Q3s and still stays when i bet a flop of 844 rainbow.

turn: Q.

twice i flop top pair in straddled pots but end up losing and by 6:00 i'm down almost $100.

thirty minutes later, however, i turn three 8s and river a boat to pull to within $50 of even.

at 7:00 though KK loses to a turned flush and i head for the diamond lounge to take a short break.

when i return miss betty childs has jumped into the dealer's box and forgets to make me post. (never gave me a missed blind button!)

i don't say anything about this and it doesn't take long for bad karma to find me as i endure a series of ridiculous beats that ends with me down $187 and taking the "walk of shame" to the atm.

when i get back to the table i win a nice pot with AJ but KK falls to a 62 off suit hand that was limped from early position.

meanwhile our dealer has locked up two seats for a couple that disappear into the casino.

"i don't see them at the cage?" i mutter to no one in particular.

but they do return and i'll end up being glad that they did.

i get KK again and wonder if i'll strike out on three pitches or if the third time will end up being a charm in a pot that ends up being four or five bet pre-flop?

with an ace high flop it looks like i'm gonna strike out and i check from early position.... but the flop checks around.

absolute total rag on the turn and i fire out a bet.

one player folds, another player folds, but the man of the new couple suddenly RAISES.

a solid player calls (i put him on a draw), another player folds, and i call.

another complete rag on the river.

i check and the man bets.

the solid player folds his draw.

i make the crying call and then the villain utters the four most beautiful words a poker player will ever hear:

"i don't have anything!!!!!!!!!!"

and just like that i'm right back in it!!

with 99 the same villain raises pre with J8.

8 high flop and he raises the turn again but the nines hold.

with AT i see an ace high flop and he raises the turn yet again.

but the ace is good and i move ahead to stay!!

thanks for reading and hope to see YOU next week at our diamond celebration dinner!!

game +22 (3/6)
year -361 (6-8)
kk 1-2 (7-9)
promo 45 (665)
tier 5935 (99.70 hrs, -3.62/hr)

[thaskalos]

Well, low limit hold 'em is problematic because of high rakes.

But your reasoning is dead wrong, and is the standard mistake of 95 percent of poker players. This is a game of math, not psychology. (ESPECIALLY limit, but even no limit, to a great extent.)

Every time someone calls pre-flop with a range that has less than its fair share of equity against the rest of the field, that player is donating money to the other players. Every. Single. Time.

So if a player is playing 85 percent of her hands pre-flop in a full ring game, probably more than 50 percent of the time she is putting money into the pot with a less than proportionate share of the equity. Which means that at least 40 percent of the hands played feature a pot with extra money in there because she made a donation to the rest of the table.

That is pure math. And that's what you want.

In contrast, a bad post-flop player isn't going to be an issue anywhere near 40 percent of the time. First of all, most of the time he won't make a hand at all and will fold it. (As Phil Laak says, it's hard to make a pair in hold 'em.) Second, sometimes he will make the best hand, see showdown, and maximize value (or come close to it). So it's probably less than 5 percent of the time that an issue comes up where the bad post-flop player is going to make a significant mistake that you get to exploit. Most hold 'em hands play themselves.

No, if you put me at a table with 8 players who play post-flop PERFECTLY and play more than twice as many hands as they should pre-flop, and let me play 10,000 hands against them, I will clean their clocks, and for far, far more money than I will ever make against anyone who has post-flop leaks but plays pre-flop reasonably well.

Most LIMIT holdem hands play themselves. In NO LIMIT...the emphasis swings decisively to the post-flop side.

[proximity]

busy day but saw on bravopokerlive.com that the monthly 2-4 limit game was still running at the local racino and headed out for a brief session.

the game was short handed (not my specialty) but i was in great position to win when i turned top two pair on the very last hand.

with $20 in the pot i raise to $28 to offer 7/2 to the two flush draws that are now out as well as a (somewhat discounted) straight draw. (actually worse than 7/2 when you consider the rake, bad beat, and dealer tip)

an offsuit straight draw from the small blind does make the call though and rivers a six high straight to drag the pot and deal me my first home racino limit loss in ppt history. :(

i take a depressing walk around a vibrant (but comp-less) casino where everyone but me seems to be having fun before heading for the exit.

it's been a terrible start to 2016 but there's still A LOT of time to turn it around.

game -21 (2/4)
year -382 (6-9)
kk 0-0 (7-9)
promo 0 (665)
tier 5935 (100.2; -$3.81/hr)

[dilanesp]

Most LIMIT holdem hands play themselves. In NO LIMIT...the emphasis swings decisively to the post-flop side.

It only does if you are in the top 5 percent (or maybe even 1 percent) of players.

An average player who calls a raise with J8 offsuit on the button in a no limit game, for instance, is not going to be able to make up the equity deficit. A brilliant player with encylopedic memory of her opponents' tendencies could do it, because she will be folding a lot of pairs and bluffing when correct to do so. But most players do not have that encyclopedic memory and the skills to exploit it.

And even those that do have the ability to overcome the equity deficit are not making a lot of money. It isn't as though they are getting players' stacks all the time. Rather, they are losing a bit less and winning a bit more over time.

For anyone who is not a no limit expert, pre-flop is still the single most important aspect of the game.

[thaskalos]

For anyone who is not a no limit expert, pre-flop is still the single most important aspect of the game.
If the pre-flop portion of the no-limit game is as important as you say...then, why are these limit "experts" having such a difficult time making the switch from limit to no-limit? They have perfected the pre-flop aspect, so...making the transition to no-limit should be just a minor adjustment.

[proximity]

everything's important in no-limit.

skills like being able to shift gears quickly and suddenly being able to plan a hand from start to finish (in seconds) after sitting on your hands for an hour is maybe something that could catch a decent limit player off guard.

your typical limit donkey that plays almost every hand will bust out so quickly in no limit that pre flop is the most important thing for them.

for most players that'll be at the table with you for any length of time though it'll come down to post flop. not even knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em but also more subtle stuff like making value bets that are as close to the line as possible. or in a bluff situation (you both miss a draw is a good one) making a bet that's just large enough (or even sometimes maybe just small enough) to get the fold.

jmo.

[thaskalos]

everything's important in no-limit.

skills like being able to shift gears quickly and suddenly being able to plan a hand from start to finish (in seconds) after sitting on your hands for an hour is maybe something that could catch a decent limit player off guard.

your typical limit donkey that plays almost every hand will bust out so quickly in no limit that pre flop is the most important thing for them.

for most players that'll be at the table with you for any length of time though it'll come down to post flop. not even knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em but also more subtle stuff like making value bets that are as close to the line as possible. or in a bluff situation (you both miss a draw is a good one) making a bet that's just large enough (or even sometimes maybe just small enough) to get the fold.

jmo.

Dilanesp contradicts himself...IMO. Pre-flop may be the most important aspect of the game in LIMIT, where the hands practically "play THEMSELVES" during the latter streets...but it can hardly be said that the hands play themselves in NO limit. I'd travel a long way to play with a guy who thinks that the no-limit hands "play themselves".

[proximity]

Dilanesp contradicts himself...IMO. Pre-flop may be the most important aspect of the game in LIMIT, where the hands practically "play THEMSELVES" during the latter streets...but it can hardly be said that the hands play themselves in NO limit. I'd travel a long way to play with a guy who thinks that the no-limit hands "play themselves".

while there can be short stack situations where the nl hand will kind of play itself, more often the stacks can be so deep that you could be facing (or making) a turn or river bet that dwarfs your initial raise and i guess you could say it's at that point where the hand truly begins.

[proximity]

some of this stuff we're talking about is what makes no limit such a great game but possibly the one thing i don't like about poker in general can make it a bad game and that's other players influencing the game.

i've already posted at least a couple times here in 2016 about this happening in limit with donkeys re-opening the betting (when the bettor hasn't raised since kent desormeaux was still in maryland) or one (sometimes two :faint: ) players "value owning" the table when the eventual winner never makes a move.

in no limit though other players can really influence the stack sizes and even if you buy in for the max you could still be hundreds of dollars short of half the table (plus) and this just gives them extra shots to take at you if you're going to be in the game for any length of time. an example is the 8-2 hand from angel largay's book where he sat at a $100 max 1-2 table where half the players had stacks of $300-$600.....

[ManU918]

Over the next few weeks I'll be playing in some of the upcoming Parx Big Stax XV - WPT Deepstack events. Honestly my track record in these events suck. Three times over the past 3 years in the opening event on Day 1 I have been the chip leader at the dinner break and have failed to make it to day 2. Bad timing and players who were just simply better than me took my chips. These events are the breeding grounds for upcoming stars in the game. The list of players I have played with over the years at Parx in these events is impressive. I hope to now change roles and have someone this time next year say "I played with him at Parx and he's gone on a massive heater and has shipped all of these events". If you Hendon Mob - Joe McKeehen, Asher Conniff or Thai Ha you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

Event 1 Day 1A is Wednesday. Hopefully I can report back Thursday saying I'll be playing in Day 2 on Sunday (4 Day 1's). If not maybe I'll fire bullets on Day 1B-1D to try to "Bop my way home". That's a Warriors reference.

[dilanesp]

If the pre-flop portion of the no-limit game is as important as you say...then, why are these limit "experts" having such a difficult time making the switch from limit to no-limit? They have perfected the pre-flop aspect, so...making the transition to no-limit should be just a minor adjustment.

I'm not sure the premise is true. Plenty of great limit players, like Jennifer Harman, Daniel Negreanu, David Sklansky, etc., are also great no limit players.

But pre-flop play in no limit and limit is also very different. For instance a limp re-raise is basically never correct in a full ring limit game, but it can be in a full ring no limit game. Cold calling first in is also basically never correct in limit and is often correct in no limit. Blind defense is totally different-- you should play your blinds a lot tighter in no limit than you should in limit.

So it's totally possible that limit players may not be able to transition to no limit and vice-versa because the strategy is different.

But while pre-flop play is DIFFERENT, that doesn't mean it isn't IMPORTANT in no limit.

As I said, if you are one of the top 5 percent of no limit players in the world, fine, feel free to get out of line pre-flop, especially in position. If you are not, play correctly because pre-flop is going to cost you a ton of money, even in no limit, if you don't.

Here's a simple version of it: calling a raise with a hand that you should fold is going to cost you 3 1/2 big blinds or more, depending on how much the raise is. A typical excellent no limit player's winrate (i.e., a player in the top echelon) in a live game is going to be around 5 or 6 big blinds per hour. So one bad pre-flop call is going to cost you almost an hour's worth of correct play.

[dilanesp]

while there can be short stack situations where the nl hand will kind of play itself, more often the stacks can be so deep that you could be facing (or making) a turn or river bet that dwarfs your initial raise and i guess you could say it's at that point where the hand truly begins.

I think you are underestimating the number of no limit hands that are clear calls or clear folds in the post-flop action.

[thaskalos]

I think you are underestimating the number of no limit hands that are clear calls or clear folds in the post-flop action.
And I think you are underestimating the complexity of the no limit game.

[proximity]

I think you are underestimating the number of no limit hands that are clear calls or clear folds in the post-flop action.

maybe i am but i feel we're kind of talking in circles and that maybe i'm caught up in some kind of dick measuring contest between you and thask? idk? :confused:

all i'm saying is that in limit if i raise AK and bet an ace high flop that's as dry as a desert; i don't even bat an eye at flop or turn calls.

in no limit it's different though. i bet my ace and thaskalos calls the flop.... this means something. what it means maybe i can apply math to but it's not an automatic chips in hand situation like it is in limit. this is ALL i'm saying.

peace.

[proximity]

Over the next few weeks I'll be playing in some of the upcoming Parx Big Stax XV - WPT Deepstack events. Honestly my track record in these events suck. Three times over the past 3 years in the opening event on Day 1 I have been the chip leader at the dinner break and have failed to make it to day 2. Bad timing and players who were just simply better than me took my chips. These events are the breeding grounds for upcoming stars in the game. The list of players I have played with over the years at Parx in these events is impressive. I hope to now change roles and have someone this time next year say "I played with him at Parx and he's gone on a massive heater and has shipped all of these events". If you Hendon Mob - Joe McKeehen, Asher Conniff or Thai Ha you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

Event 1 Day 1A is Wednesday. Hopefully I can report back Thursday saying I'll be playing in Day 2 on Sunday (4 Day 1's). If not maybe I'll fire bullets on Day 1B-1D to try to "Bop my way home". That's a Warriors reference.

good luck manu and be sure to keep us posted!!

btw, i think a good idea for this event would be a side tournament between the parkettes and the royal flush girls. :cool:

[thaskalos]

maybe i am but i feel we're kind of talking in circles and that maybe i'm caught up in some kind of dick measuring contest between you and thask? idk? :confused:

all i'm saying is that in limit if i raise AK and bet an ace high flop that's as dry as a desert; i don't even bat an eye at flop or turn calls.

in no limit it's different though. i bet my ace and thaskalos calls the flop.... this means something. what it means maybe i can apply math to but it's not an automatic chips in hand situation like it is in limit. this is ALL i'm saying.

peace.
I am not interested in getting involved in any "dick-measuring" contests. I know what I know, and I am just putting it out there...and others are welcomed to disagree.

IMO...there are no set-in-stone rules in lo limit. When I play, my emphasis isn't on getting dealt "favorable cards"; my emphasis is on getting involved in "favorable situations". In no limit, the cards that you hold are not the most significant thing...because these cards do not lead to "cut-and-dried" decisions. Good players can force you into a mistake in NL...or they can take the play away from you. Limit players don't believe this...but when "good players" congregate for a NL game, the hands don't usually reach the showdown stage. In NL, the player isn't on autopilot...as he is in limit.

As Doyle Brunson said: "No limit is to limit what chess is to checkers".

[proximity]

I am not interested in getting involved in any "dick-measuring" contests. I know what I know, and I am just putting it out there...and others are welcomed to disagree.

IMO...there are no set-in-stone rules in lo limit. When I play, my emphasis isn't on getting dealt "favorable cards"; my emphasis is on getting involved in "favorable situations". In no limit, the cards that you hold are not the most significant thing...because these cards do not lead to "cut-and-dried" decisions. Good players can force you into a mistake in NL...or they can take the play away from you. Limit players don't believe this...but when "good players" congregate for a NL game, the hands don't usually reach the showdown stage. In NL, the player isn't on autopilot...as he is in limit.

As Doyle Brunson said: "No limit is to limit what chess is to checkers".

this.

[dilanesp]

maybe i am but i feel we're kind of talking in circles and that maybe i'm caught up in some kind of dick measuring contest between you and thask? idk? :confused:

all i'm saying is that in limit if i raise AK and bet an ace high flop that's as dry as a desert; i don't even bat an eye at flop or turn calls.

in no limit it's different though. i bet my ace and thaskalos calls the flop.... this means something. what it means maybe i can apply math to but it's not an automatic chips in hand situation like it is in limit. this is ALL i'm saying.

peace.

That's all true, but even in no limit, a lot of decisions are pretty obvious.

My hypothetical player calls J8 preflop, flop Q62, there's a c-bet and a,call, easy fold. But the preflop call still cost money. It does every time.

Also, most players who play both games well would say limit is just as hard as no limit. And certainly tournament no limit is easier than a limit cash game.

[dilanesp]

I am not interested in getting involved in any "dick-measuring" contests. I know what I know, and I am just putting it out there...and others are welcomed to disagree.

IMO...there are no set-in-stone rules in lo limit. When I play, my emphasis isn't on getting dealt "favorable cards"; my emphasis is on getting involved in "favorable situations". In no limit, the cards that you hold are not the most significant thing...because these cards do not lead to "cut-and-dried" decisions. Good players can force you into a mistake in NL...or they can take the play away from you. Limit players don't believe this...but when "good players" congregate for a NL game, the hands don't usually reach the showdown stage. In NL, the player isn't on autopilot...as he is in limit.

As Doyle Brunson said: "No limit is to limit what chess is to checkers".

The best no limit players i know, who crush the ganes, are highly mathematical and try to identify an optimal play for any situation. Adjustments are important but need to be made from a mathematically sound basis, and there certainly IS a most correct play based on the information you have.

Cliffs: do more math and be more disciplined.Even in no limit.

[thaskalos]

Also, most players who play both games well would say limit is just as hard as no limit. And certainly tournament no limit is easier than a limit cash game.
The word "certainly" is not a good fit in these types of discussions, IMO. what is "certain" to can easily sound absurd to me.

You downplay the importance of post-flop play in limit holdem...because the hands in the latter streets play themselves. And then you tell us that limit is just as hard to play as no limit. If limit is essentially a PRE-flop game...then, how hard of a game do you suppose it is to play? Is it difficult to memorize and follow a starting-hand recommendation chart? Do you suppose that memorizing and sticking to such a chart will make someone a winner in no limit?

Cliffs: Get into a couple of serious no limit games...and then get back to us. What sounds good in "theory" often fizzles out it real practice.

[no breathalyzer]

That's all true, but even in no limit, a lot of decisions are pretty obvious.

My hypothetical player calls J8 preflop, flop Q62, there's a c-bet and a,call, easy fold. But the preflop call still cost money. It does every time.

Also, most players who play both games well would say limit is just as hard as no limit. And certainly tournament no limit is easier than a limit cash game.

Is it that simple in the games you play?

Limit poker is as auto pilot as it gets in the poker world

[charm city whizz]

Not sure who is going to the shoe friday but I have a new phone and number...

443-221-1121

[dilanesp]

Is it that simple in the games you play?

Limit poker is as auto pilot as it gets in the poker world

If limit poker is easy, how come 96 percent of the players who play it lose? (We know this from Table Ratings.)

Limit hold 'em is very hard to play well. It is scrupulously mathematical and requires great discipline. Good players try to teach the game to others all the time, and it rarely works.

[proximity]

Not sure who is going to the shoe friday but I have a new phone and number...

443-221-1121


i will be there thursday, friday, and saturday.

you're coming to the diamond dinner saturday, right??

[thaskalos]

If limit poker is easy, how come 96 percent of the players who play it lose? (We know this from Table Ratings.)

Limit hold 'em is very hard to play well. It is scrupulously mathematical and requires great discipline. Good players try to teach the game to others all the time, and it rarely works.

Is the player success rate higher at the NL tables?

I have a hunch that the financial outlook of both types of players would improve if the vast majority of them didn't linger at stakes where the rake eats them up.

[charm city whizz]

If limit poker is easy, how come 96 percent of the players who play it lose? (We know this from Table Ratings.)

Limit hold 'em is very hard to play well. It is scrupulously mathematical and requires great discipline. Good players try to teach the game to others all the time, and it rarely works.

I'll be there tonight for sure........might meet my father at Delaware park tommorow night but that's not official rather just stay close to home

Plan on putting in a 10 hour session tonight but in reality can't see myself playing for more then a hour.....Gonna push for a pink game tonight

[proximity]

I'll be there tonight for sure........might meet my father at Delaware park tommorow night but that's not official rather just stay close to home

Plan on putting in a 10 hour session tonight but in reality can't see myself playing for more then a hour.....Gonna push for a pink game tonight

going over now with a goal to last until the chinese concert at 12:30. pretty tired though. :confused:

not sure if anyone is coming tomorrow? :confused: :confused:

if no diamond dinner, i'll still be there playing. hopefully i get some sleep tonight and can get there earlier. :)

[Track Collector]

I'm in!! Hope some others can make it as well.

[thaskalos]

A friend suggested to me that I visit an illegal gambling hall operating in the Chicago North Side...and I went there last night. A social club/coffee shop was operating at ground level...and the illegal gambling was held in the basement. Seven or eight tables where poker, blackjack, gin-rummy, coon-can, and barbut were taking place. The thing that struck me was that everyone there was smoking...and the smoke was thick enough to be cut with a knife.

I found the proprietor of the place...and told him that there were laws prohibiting indoor smoking throughout the state. He replied to me that, if he had any regard for the state laws...he wouldn't have opened the gambling hall in the first place.

[proximity]

A friend suggested to me that I visit an illegal gambling hall operating in the Chicago North Side...and I went there last night. A social club/coffee shop was operating at ground level...and the illegal gambling was held in the basement. Seven or eight tables where poker, blackjack, gin-rummy, coon-can, and barbut were taking place. The thing that struck me was that everyone there was smoking...and the smoke was thick enough to be cut with a knife.

I found the proprietor of the place...and told him that there were laws prohibiting indoor smoking throughout the state. He replied to me that, if he had any regard for the state laws...he wouldn't have opened the gambling hall in the first place.

believe it or not i was able to use my deep connections in the poker world to get some footage of this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOnX4Z-WxQc

nice hand thask!!!! :cool: (errr i mean :ThmbUp: ) :)

[Track Collector]

A huge THANK YOU to proximity for his Diamond Dinner hospitality!! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

I am usually a rather reserved individual, but yesterday I was really wound up sharing the company of valued PA-member friendships. :jump:

(Nice to see Ronsmac and his special girl Patty as well.). Unable to get Charm City Whizz, so hopefully at a future gathering.

Proximity was one of the very first PA-members that I met, and it is not too often circumstances allow some prolonged one-on-one horseracing and poker discussion time with a modest, yet highly intelligent individual. Happy turf and felting my friend!!

[proximity]

A huge THANK YOU to proximity for his Diamond Dinner hospitality!! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

I am usually a rather reserved individual, but yesterday I was really wound up sharing the company of valued PA-member friendships. :jump:

(Nice to see Ronsmac and his special girl Patty as well.). Unable to get Charm City Whizz, so hopefully at a future gathering.

Proximity was one of the very first PA-members that I met, and it is not too often circumstances allow some prolonged one-on-one horseracing and poker discussion time with a modest, yet highly intelligent individual. Happy turf and felting my friend!!

it was my pleasure and congratulations on the wins.

off topic, but did you see this:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/97781/plan-for-timonium-otb-parlor-causes-a-stir?source=rss

i don't think there should be a casino at timonium but idk how much of a "secret" this really was? weren't the hightops people already talking about this last year at the fair???

[dilanesp]

This was a fun one from online. The opponent is a 65/18/1.5, meaning that she plays 65 percent of his hands pre-flop, raises 18 percent of the time, and is very aggressive post-flop for someone who plays that many hands.

And it's a very nice demonstration of why you can't win at poker if you are playing 65 percent of your hands. Indeed, that sort of play tends to induce you to make even bigger errors postflop.

I'm in the big blind with JdJc.

It folds to the cut-off, where she open limps, the button folds, the small blind completes, and I raise and they both call.

The flop comes 8d4s4c

SB checks, I bet, the CO calls, the small blind folds.

Turn is a Ks, I bet, CO raises, I call

River Kh, check-check.

She shows Qs5s

The hand is pretty standard (though I can discuss what I think is the obvious turn call if you want).

But think about what this tells us about our opponent. She's obviously playing too many hands (65 percent is ridiculous, something like three times as many hands as she should be playing), and of course Qs5s is something she should be snap-folding in the cut-off.

But what is she thinking? Well, she's clearly thinking "I'm in position and will be able to take down pots when my opponents miss or bluff scare cards."

The problem is this. If you are playing 65 percent of your range, this means that most of the time you are going to have garbage. Which in turn means that against a good player you can't bluff so much. (Indeed, even against a bad player you can't bluff all that much.) You are going to get looked up, because your range is too weak. To bluff successfully, you have to have credibility-- i.e., enough strong hands in your range that you play the same way that your opponent thinks that you are going to have it a significant percentage of the time. This player has no chance of creating this image for herself.

Good post-flop play is not some organically separate thing from good pre-flop play. They are connected. And that allows you to represent good hands in situations when you don't have them and have credibility, because much of the time you have what you are supposed to have.

If you want to play well post-flop, the first step really is to play well pre-flop. Don't walk into that cardroom thinking you can get away with playing anything in position because of your brilliance. Yes, the best players can get away with making some adjustments and opening up their ranges in position. But if you consistently have a weak range because you don't have any pre-flop discipline, your bluffs will rarely be credible.

[dilanesp]

Is the player success rate higher at the NL tables?

I have a hunch that the financial outlook of both types of players would improve if the vast majority of them didn't linger at stakes where the rake eats them up.

It was 96 percent ONLINE, with low rakes.

The number who lose in live raketrap games is actually likely higher.

[proximity]

This was a fun one from online. The opponent is a 65/18/1.5, meaning that she.....

65/18?

she's tag where i play! ;)

[thaskalos]

This was a fun one from online. The opponent is a 65/18/1.5, meaning that she plays 65 percent of his hands pre-flop, raises 18 percent of the time, and is very aggressive post-flop for someone who plays that many hands.

And it's a very nice demonstration of why you can't win at poker if you are playing 65 percent of your hands. Indeed, that sort of play tends to induce you to make even bigger errors postflop.

I'm in the big blind with JdJc.

It folds to the cut-off, where she open limps, the button folds, the small blind completes, and I raise and they both call.

The flop comes 8d4s4c

SB checks, I bet, the CO calls, the small blind folds.

Turn is a Ks, I bet, CO raises, I call

River Kh, check-check.

She shows Qs5s

The hand is pretty standard (though I can discuss what I think is the obvious turn call if you want).

But think about what this tells us about our opponent. She's obviously playing too many hands (65 percent is ridiculous, something like three times as many hands as she should be playing), and of course Qs5s is something she should be snap-folding in the cut-off.

But what is she thinking? Well, she's clearly thinking "I'm in position and will be able to take down pots when my opponents miss or bluff scare cards."

The problem is this. If you are playing 65 percent of your range, this means that most of the time you are going to have garbage. Which in turn means that against a good player you can't bluff so much. (Indeed, even against a bad player you can't bluff all that much.) You are going to get looked up, because your range is too weak. To bluff successfully, you have to have credibility-- i.e., enough strong hands in your range that you play the same way that your opponent thinks that you are going to have it a significant percentage of the time. This player has no chance of creating this image for herself.

Good post-flop play is not some organically separate thing from good pre-flop play. They are connected. And that allows you to represent good hands in situations when you don't have them and have credibility, because much of the time you have what you are supposed to have.

If you want to play well post-flop, the first step really is to play well pre-flop. Don't walk into that cardroom thinking you can get away with playing anything in position because of your brilliance. Yes, the best players can get away with making some adjustments and opening up their ranges in position. But if you consistently have a weak range because you don't have any pre-flop discipline, your bluffs will rarely be credible.

If she is looking to use her position edge against the possibility that her opponents hit the flop...why not open-raise instead of open-limping from the cut-off seat, so she could try to take down the pot right there...or at least secure the button against the blinds? When you play a speculative hand in position, you want a multi-pot hand...and a hand that's folded to the cut-off seat is the antithesis of what you are looking in that spot.

This lady had no business anywhere NEAR a poker tables...unless we are talking micro-limits here.

[proximity]

it's time again for my annual car inspection/ charles town trip and i take off early for the southern pa dealership where i bought my ford focus.

i'm such a caveman that we're lucky i can even text on my phone but i drag my laptop into the dealership waiting area so i can read the great posts that you all make here on paceadvantage.com. however, dealership internet apparently blocks gambling sites so i'm forced to watch hollywood access live on the dealership tv.

weal housewife of new joisey teresa giudice is today's guest and there's talk of her pre-incarceration stwip search, pwison secks in the "boom boom woom," her thoughts on donald trump, and of course her husband big joe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIso_s5OCVI

the car passes with no issues and it's back on 81 south.

this year however, when i get to hagerstown, md i turn east on route 70 towards the beautiful new horseshoe baltimore.

while variety is the spice of life and i do love charles town itself, pen gaming hasn't earned my business. equation:

no comps + no promo chips + no gifts = no trip to charles town.

out on scenic 70 some lady almost runs me off the road but i arrive at horseshoe safely and sprint out to a quick lead.

about 45 minutes in though KK falls after seeing a flop of AJ5. i bow out on the turn here but had a couple more outs as i was beaten by a limped J5, not the ace.

an hour later, after losses with JJ and AJ (two pair) i fall behind for the first time since the beginning of the game.

i storm back though with AK and JJ winning nice pots and putting me up over $100.

that's it though as i stay a few more hours, but don't win a single hand.

up three digits, the game could've went better but it was at least good to start the trip with a win. horseshoe comps and promo chips don't hurt either.

game +38 (3/6)
year -344 (7-9)
kk 0-1 (7-10)
promo 45 (710)
tier 6205 (105.6 hrs; -3.26/hr)

[thaskalos]

If she is looking to use her position edge against the possibility that her opponents hit the flop...why not open-raise instead of open-limping from the cut-off seat, so she could try to take down the pot right there...or at least secure the button against the blinds? When you play a speculative hand in position, you want a multi-pot hand...and a hand that's folded to the cut-off seat is the antithesis of what you are looking in that spot.

This lady had no business anywhere NEAR a poker tables...unless we are talking micro-limits here.

"Multi-WAY hand"...is what I meant.

[tucker6]

"Multi-WAY hand"...is what I meant.
Movie quote I heard yesterday I think:

"your incompetence is becoming most taxing"

:lol:

[dilanesp]

If she is looking to use her position edge against the possibility that her opponents hit the flop...why not open-raise instead of open-limping from the cut-off seat, so she could try to take down the pot right there...or at least secure the button against the blinds? When you play a speculative hand in position, you want a multi-pot hand...and a hand that's folded to the cut-off seat is the antithesis of what you are looking in that spot.

This lady had no business anywhere NEAR a poker tables...unless we are talking micro-limits here.

Thas, raising is better than limping, but folding's 100 times better than raising.

The fundamental problem is the one I identified-- that when you are playing this weak a range, you have to adjust your bluffing frequency downward, and if you have to adjust your bluffing frequency downward, you end up imbalanced and unable to take advantage of your position.

This is also why you can't steal 100 percent. Even a GTO bot playing a heads up game, which is going to have the widest possible stealing range, folds some of the very worst hands.

You have to play well pre-flop to play well post-flop.

[thaskalos]

"your incompetence is becoming most taxing"

:lol:
SRU has already pointed that out to me. :)

[thaskalos]

Thas, raising is better than limping, but folding's 100 times better than raising.

The fundamental problem is the one I identified-- that when you are playing this weak a range, you have to adjust your bluffing frequency downward, and if you have to adjust your bluffing frequency downward, you end up imbalanced and unable to take advantage of your position.

This is also why you can't steal 100 percent. Even a GTO bot playing a heads up game, which is going to have the widest possible stealing range, folds some of the very worst hands.

You have to play well pre-flop to play well post-flop.

It's obvious that this hand had to be tossed away. In my several years of online limit poker, I don't think I ever met a player who played a hand the same way as this player in your example played hers...unless it happened at the micro-stakes.

This is where we disagree on pre-flop play:

You try to paint a similarity between limit and NL holdem...and no similarity between these two poker forms exists. This isn't just me talking...I gotta hunch that every serious NL player would agree with me here.

In the NL game..."psychology" plays a much bigger role than you allow in your thinking. There are certain elements of the NL game which totally change the game's objective...and also change the optimal strategy that the different situations demand. For instance, stack size is never a concern for the limit player...but it is always a MAJOR concern for the NL player. The sizes of the stacks around the table are a consideration which often gains prevalence over some pre-determined starting-hand chart. The competent NL player targets his opponent's entire STACK...and he uses different strategies than the limit player does - whose objective is more modest. I may elect to play a certain hand in a certain position that you would NEVER consider holding on to, and you would chastise me for doing so...but my reasoning might be very valid. In NL...the competent player will even make an OBVIOUSLY wrong move, so he could present a certain image to the table from which he looks to benefit later-on in the poker session. In NL...not enough hands get to the showdown stage, and a player doesn't get enough chances to display the proper "table image" to his opponents. He sometimes has to force things along.

You would criticize a player for opening UTG with pocket deuces...but this is a great move in "deep" games, with a certain texture. The same could be said about a hand like 7-8 suited. What appears to be a glaring pre-flop mistake to the limit player may be a great play to his NL counterpart, because they have different objectives...and they follow different rules.

NL holdem is a game of FEAR...and I want my opponents to fear me even if the flop looks harmless. If I don't sometimes show down a harmless-looking starting hand...then, how could I accomplish that? Am I supposed to advertise my SKILL?

[dilanesp]

NL holdem is a game of FEAR...and I want my opponents to fear me even if the flop looks harmless. If I don't sometimes show down a harmless-looking starting hand...then, how could I accomplish that? Am I supposed to advertise my SKILL?

The thing is, mathematically, it's really easy to go overboard on that. The no limit players I have most respect for DO open their games up a bit when they have position against weaker opponents, but only a bit. And the reason is what I explained-- if your range post-flop is bluff-heavy, and you are constantly taking shots on dry boards, your opponents are going to start picking off your bluffs. Every opponent, even the bad ones, are going to know you aren't hitting every 844 flop.

So the proper adjustment is to expand your range by a moderate amount, and to increase your bluffing frequency a bit on dry boards. The best players will mathematically model that situation and figure out exactly how much to increase their range, to the point that they are, say, playing Q8 suited 25 percent of the time or something.

But most players don't do that math. And falling back on tired rhetoric about psychology is a really good way to get yourself in the situation where you have too wide a range and too many bluffs, because you didn't bother to do the math.

[thaskalos]

The thing is, mathematically, it's really easy to go overboard on that. The no limit players I have most respect for DO open their games up a bit when they have position against weaker opponents, but only a bit. And the reason is what I explained-- if your range post-flop is bluff-heavy, and you are constantly taking shots on dry boards, your opponents are going to start picking off your bluffs. Every opponent, even the bad ones, are going to know you aren't hitting every 844 flop.

So the proper adjustment is to expand your range by a moderate amount, and to increase your bluffing frequency a bit on dry boards. The best players will mathematically model that situation and figure out exactly how much to increase their range, to the point that they are, say, playing Q8 suited 25 percent of the time or something.

But most players don't do that math. And falling back on tired rhetoric about psychology is a really good way to get yourself in the situation where you have too wide a range and too many bluffs, because you didn't bother to do the math.

When you play online, and you utilize player-tracking software to analyze the betting patterns of your opposition...then you can "mathematically model" these situations. The same thing could be done when you play the "nose-bleed" stakes...where the player pool is relatively small, and you play with the same players over and over. But, when you sit down at a 2/5 NL game at a major casino for a 6-hour session, the player pool is too large to allow you to properly track your competition, and the player turnover is too great for you to discern particular betting patterns...because you don't get to see the players' starting hand often enough.

That's why we say that "theory" and "practice" are different things. ANYONE can sound smart when mouthing off empty theoretical concepts. Ask him to put that theory to actual practice, however...and all you get in return is excuse after excuse..

[proximity]

here's a good video from horseshoe pro cuserounder that shows some of the no limit complexities:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49372086&postcount=11

i'd be interested in hearing dilane's thoughts about how the hand would play at different levels of limit though. at 3/6 (low level) there almost has to be a point where you're almost definitely beat and have to drop anchor especially with the "tag" between you and the three bettor. (we're also getting less odds at my level because of rake, bb, and tip) at your level though dilane am i wrong to assume there exists a decent population of three bettors who could be making a move to drive you out?? :confused:

[thaskalos]

The thing is, mathematically, it's really easy to go overboard on that. The no limit players I have most respect for DO open their games up a bit when they have position against weaker opponents, but only a bit. And the reason is what I explained-- if your range post-flop is bluff-heavy, and you are constantly taking shots on dry boards, your opponents are going to start picking off your bluffs. Every opponent, even the bad ones, are going to know you aren't hitting every 844 flop.

So the proper adjustment is to expand your range by a moderate amount, and to increase your bluffing frequency a bit on dry boards. The best players will mathematically model that situation and figure out exactly how much to increase their range, to the point that they are, say, playing Q8 suited 25 percent of the time or something.

But most players don't do that math. And falling back on tired rhetoric about psychology is a really good way to get yourself in the situation where you have too wide a range and too many bluffs, because you didn't bother to do the math.

I never said to constantly take shots with speculative holdings...or to go after every dry flop. In NL...even the infrequent "mistake" gets stock in the opponents mind. Limp with pocket aces UTG even ONCE...and it will be remembered for the rest of the night.

The words constantly and every dry flop are words that YOU have chosen to use...so you can deflect the argument from your original point...which was that the pre-flop portion of the NL game is the most significant part of it. It is a totally ERRONEOUS assertion...and all the serious NL players would back me up on that. NL is basically a POST-flop game...and every single serious NL player in existence would acknowledge that fact.

[thaskalos]

here's a good video from horseshoe pro cuserounder that shows some of the no limit complexities:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49372086&postcount=11

i'd be interested in hearing dilane's thoughts about how the hand would play at different levels of limit though. at 3/6 (low level) there almost has to be a point where you're almost definitely beat and have to drop anchor especially with the "tag" between you and the three bettor. (we're also getting less odds at my level because of rake, bb, and tip) at your level though dilane am i wrong to assume there exists a decent population of three bettors who could be making a move to drive you out?? :confused:

Proximity,

Why don't you ask cuserounder if NL is essentially a pre-flop game? :)

[tucker6]

SRU has already pointed that out to me. :)
haha, yes indeed. I like you though.

[proximity]

Proximity,

Why don't you ask cuserounder if NL is essentially a pre-flop game? :)

it's $100 an hour for information like that, although i think we're the only phillies fans who play at horseshoe so maybe i could get a discount? :D

[thaskalos]

it's $100 an hour for information like that, although i think we're the only phillies fans who play at horseshoe so maybe i could get a discount? :D
Maybe we can work out a trade agreement. He answers our poker questions...and we answer his horse racing questions. :)

[dilanesp]

When you play online, and you utilize player-tracking software to analyze the betting patterns of your opposition...then you can "mathematically model" these situations. The same thing could be done when you play the "nose-bleed" stakes...where the player pool is relatively small, and you play with the same players over and over. But, when you sit down at a 2/5 NL game at a major casino for a 6-hour session, the player pool is too large to allow you to properly track your competition, and the player turnover is too great for you to discern particular betting patterns...because you don't get to see the players' starting hand often enough.

That's why we say that "theory" and "practice" are different things. ANYONE can sound smart when mouthing off empty theoretical concepts. Ask him to put that theory to actual practice, however...and all you get in return is excuse after excuse..

Thas, you should understand, it's entirely possible to mathematically model different player profiles. I do a fair amount of calculation of ranges in my head and combination counting when I am playing in limit, and I do it in no limit when I play it as well. You are acting as if the fact that it's impossible to have an exact number also means it is impossible to estimate, and that's not true.

I think that someone who doesn't go through the effort of trying to figure out, for instance, how much it affects your opening range that your opponents are closer to VPIP50 or VPIP100 is going to be making pretty big pre-flop errors, especially if their ego tells them that they are so brilliant at psychology that they don't need to do the math.

But then, maybe you disagree. People who disagree with math have a very bad track record, though. :)

[proximity]

Maybe we can work out a trade agreement. He answers our poker questions...and we answer his horse racing questions. :)

:D :D :D

cuse: when you're 250 bb deep post flop may possibly be a tad more important than pre...

thaskimity: when you see a racing form, don't walk the other direction... RUN....

[dilanesp]

I never said to constantly take shots with speculative holdings...or to go after every dry flop. In NL...even the infrequent "mistake" gets stock in the opponents mind. Limp with pocket aces UTG even ONCE...and it will be remembered for the rest of the night.

The words constantly and every dry flop are words that YOU have chosen to use...so you can deflect the argument from your original point...which was that the pre-flop portion of the NL game is the most significant part of it. It is a totally ERRONEOUS assertion...and all the serious NL players would back me up on that. NL is basically a POST-flop game...and every single serious NL player in existence would acknowledge that fact.

Thas:

Exactly how often you should be bluffing on that board is a math question (although it can of course be informed by your reads on your opponents). Optimal bluffing frequencies are an actual thing, you know. (And, as I said, they depend on what you are playing pre-flop-- play too much garbage and you are going to be in a situation where you can't bluff optimally.)

It simply amazes me that you think that there's some way to play this game well while avoiding calculations, just because it's no limit and you think of yourself as a brilliant "psychologist".

[dilanesp]

:D :D :D

cuse: when you're 250 bb deep post flop may possibly be a tad more important than pre...

Prox, what do you mean by "more important"?

Do you understand my point that they are related, and that it's actually very hard to "play badly pre-flop and well post-flop" because of what that does to your ranges?

So how is post-flop play "more important", even in a 250bb deep postflop game (especially since your opponents in such games are going to tend to be good enough to recognize unbalanced ranges)?

[dilanesp]

here's a good video from horseshoe pro cuserounder that shows some of the no limit complexities:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49372086&postcount=11

i'd be interested in hearing dilane's thoughts about how the hand would play at different levels of limit though. at 3/6 (low level) there almost has to be a point where you're almost definitely beat and have to drop anchor especially with the "tag" between you and the three bettor. (we're also getting less odds at my level because of rake, bb, and tip) at your level though dilane am i wrong to assume there exists a decent population of three bettors who could be making a move to drive you out?? :confused:

No limit, the bet sizing analysis is beautiful. Note how mathematical he is, even though he is a no limit player. He's thinking in terms of relation to pot size, relation to stack size, AND his opponents' ranges and combo counting the nit's range. Very little of this is psychology, really. It's all math.

Now, back to your question. I don't want to say there's never a situation where you should fold kings in limit on a dry board, but really the starting point is that you should never fold kings in limit on a dry board, at least unless you are facing calling 2 additional turn bets cold or something. So if you are facing a raise and a call on the flop, you are generally always going to 3-bet absent a sick read, at ANY level.

And if you have the sick read, the next level isn't to fold. It's to call the flop and then call down the turn and the river. Against a real nit raiser, that's what I would do, at any level, again.

To fold-- well, when are you proposing to fold your kings? One of the issues here is that you have decent equity against 97 suited, and that hand's going to show up some in a limped pot. Indeed, it's much more likely to show up than sets, because most idiots don't raise the flop with sets in multi-way pot (even at 40-80!). At lower limits, 97 offsuit shows up more and more as well.

And if you put 97 in anyone's range here, the only time you can possibly fold is on the river (not the actual river here, of course, which was the yahtzee card :) ). And why are you ever going to fold a river with a pair of kings getting a jillion to one closing the action?

Limit is basically a game of paying off, and this type of situation shows why. You are usually getting semi-reasonable odds to call, you are usually drawing live when you are behind, and often times the only time you "know" you are behind is on the river when you only have to be good occasionally to justify a call.

So this situation basically plays the same in any level of limit. It's much more difficult as a no limit hand-- although it's a math problem, not really a psychology problem, either way.

[proximity]

Prox, what do you mean by "more important"?

Do you understand my point that they are related, and that it's actually very hard to "play badly pre-flop and well post-flop" because of what that does to your ranges?

So how is post-flop play "more important", even in a 250bb deep postflop game (especially since your opponents in such games are going to tend to be good enough to recognize unbalanced ranges)?

cuse: rock solid pre flop play is paramount!! absolutely essential lest you slowly donk off your stack and consistently put yourself in difficult spots......

proxkalos: top shelf pace adjusted speed figures are the bedrock of successful handicapping. brisnet will give you winners but lead a trail to the poorhouse. we recommend the milkowski ratings at timeform usa......

(i didn't "mean" anything. just a lite-hearted response to thask's trade agreement scenario.....peace )

[proximity]

No limit, the bet sizing analysis is beautiful. Note how mathematical he is, even though he is a no limit player. He's thinking in terms of relation to pot size, relation to stack size, AND his opponents' ranges and combo counting the nit's range. Very little of this is psychology, really. It's all math.

Now, back to your question. I don't want to say there's never a situation where you should fold kings in limit on a dry board, but really the starting point is that you should never fold kings in limit on a dry board, at least unless you are facing calling 2 additional turn bets cold or something. So if you are facing a raise and a call on the flop, you are generally always going to 3-bet absent a sick read, at ANY level.

And if you have the sick read, the next level isn't to fold. It's to call the flop and then call down the turn and the river. Against a real nit raiser, that's what I would do, at any level, again.

To fold-- well, when are you proposing to fold your kings? One of the issues here is that you have decent equity against 97 suited, and that hand's going to show up some in a limped pot. Indeed, it's much more likely to show up than sets, because most idiots don't raise the flop with sets in multi-way pot (even at 40-80!). At lower limits, 97 offsuit shows up more and more as well.

And if you put 97 in anyone's range here, the only time you can possibly fold is on the river (not the actual river here, of course, which was the yahtzee card :) ). And why are you ever going to fold a river with a pair of kings getting a jillion to one closing the action?

Limit is basically a game of paying off, and this type of situation shows why. You are usually getting semi-reasonable odds to call, you are usually drawing live when you are behind, and often times the only time you "know" you are behind is on the river when you only have to be good occasionally to justify a call.

So this situation basically plays the same in any level of limit. It's much more difficult as a no limit hand-- although it's a math problem, not really a psychology problem, either way.

the highlighted part is what i'm saying with the great possibility that you're facing a cap here.

[thaskalos]

Thas:

Exactly how often you should be bluffing on that board is a math question (although it can of course be informed by your reads on your opponents). Optimal bluffing frequencies are an actual thing, you know. (And, as I said, they depend on what you are playing pre-flop-- play too much garbage and you are going to be in a situation where you can't bluff optimally.)

It simply amazes me that you think that there's some way to play this game well while avoiding calculations, just because it's no limit and you think of yourself as a brilliant "psychologist".

You will never be able to find a single post of mine where I recommend "avoiding" mathematical calculations. I, on the other hand, can find several erroneous posts of YOURS...where you state that the pre-flop portion of the NL game is its most important aspect. You probably now realize how wrong this original opinion of yours was...and you are now deflecting by pretending that I recommend "consistently" playing rags pre-flop...or, "attaching every dry flop"...or , "never using mathematical calculations". I, of course have NEVER made such statements.

All I've ever done here is disagree with your absurd assertion that the pre-flop portion of the NL game is its most significant aspect. You say that YOU are amazed by my opinion? What am I supposed to be...when I see a supposedly advanced poker player like yourself declare that NL holdem is essentially a pre-flop game?

If you think that the NL hands "play themselves in the latter streets", like they do in LIMIT...then you and I must play in different universes.

[thaskalos]

No limit, the bet sizing analysis is beautiful. Note how mathematical he is, even though he is a no limit player. He's thinking in terms of relation to pot size, relation to stack size, AND his opponents' ranges and combo counting the nit's range. Very little of this is psychology, really. It's all math.

Now, back to your question. I don't want to say there's never a situation where you should fold kings in limit on a dry board, but really the starting point is that you should never fold kings in limit on a dry board, at least unless you are facing calling 2 additional turn bets cold or something. So if you are facing a raise and a call on the flop, you are generally always going to 3-bet absent a sick read, at ANY level.

And if you have the sick read, the next level isn't to fold. It's to call the flop and then call down the turn and the river. Against a real nit raiser, that's what I would do, at any level, again.

To fold-- well, when are you proposing to fold your kings? One of the issues here is that you have decent equity against 97 suited, and that hand's going to show up some in a limped pot. Indeed, it's much more likely to show up than sets, because most idiots don't raise the flop with sets in multi-way pot (even at 40-80!). At lower limits, 97 offsuit shows up more and more as well.

And if you put 97 in anyone's range here, the only time you can possibly fold is on the river (not the actual river here, of course, which was the yahtzee card :) ). And why are you ever going to fold a river with a pair of kings getting a jillion to one closing the action?

Limit is basically a game of paying off, and this type of situation shows why. You are usually getting semi-reasonable odds to call, you are usually drawing live when you are behind, and often times the only time you "know" you are behind is on the river when you only have to be good occasionally to justify a call.

So this situation basically plays the same in any level of limit. It's much more difficult as a no limit hand-- although it's a math problem, not really a psychology problem, either way.
Yes...but you have also said that limit poker is just as complicated to play as NL. Do you suppose that NL is also basically a "game of paying off"?

[thaskalos]

Thas, you should understand, it's entirely possible to mathematically model different player profiles. I do a fair amount of calculation of ranges in my head and combination counting when I am playing in limit, and I do it in no limit when I play it as well. You are acting as if the fact that it's impossible to have an exact number also means it is impossible to estimate, and that's not true.

I think that someone who doesn't go through the effort of trying to figure out, for instance, how much it affects your opening range that your opponents are closer to VPIP50 or VPIP100 is going to be making pretty big pre-flop errors, especially if their ego tells them that they are so brilliant at psychology that they don't need to do the math.

But then, maybe you disagree. People who disagree with math have a very bad track record, though. :)

I don't disagree with math. I disagree with those who don't realize their limitations when attempting to solve complex problems by utilizing incomplete and even erroneous data.

I was playing with a famous pro in a NL cash game once. I saw very few starting hands of his at the showdown, as is usually the case with great players...so, my opinion about his playing style was hazy by game's end. But I noticed that he limped UTG with pocket aces at one point in the game. If this were an ordinary player...then I might have made the mistake of thinking that this was a typical play of his...when, in reality, it was just a one-time-thing...to prove a point.

Math IS important...but so is psychology. When we talk about "reads", "stack-sizes", "game-flow", and "bet-sizing"...these aren't just "mathematical maneuvers". They are "psychological" considerations as well.

In NL, the player who ignores "psychology" pays for it. We are not playing with idiots or robots out there.

[proximity]

ok poker fans, we are back with game number 2 of our 2016 car inspection/ horseshoe baltimore trip.

it's pyrex 8-piece mixing bowl set day at 'shoe and because i'm a compulsive gambler the casino throws in four nice horseshoe glasses as well!!

http://www.amazon.com/Pyrex-Smart-Essentials-8-Piece-Mixing/dp/B000FBUMLQ

THANK YOU HORSESHOE!!

i make several good folds in the first hour of the game but it's a slow start as i'm not winning any pots. eventually though i strike with a set of 8s and when i flop a flush with A5s i move ahead about $60 for the contest.

paceadvantage member track collector is in the house and stops over for a brief visit before heading home with a $65 score! he has his division champion washington redskins jacket on and i think up a little song:

hail track collector!
hail victory!
promo chips and free gifts
so long
to old CT !! :)

when track collector departs though i think he takes my luck with him as i pretty much get curb stomped for the next seven (plus) hours. about halfway through this misery i lose with a turned set of kings and when i lose with a set of 8s i find myself down $150 for the game.

shortly after midnight, however, i start to rally when i get a win with AA before dragging a monster limit pot when i complete a backdoor flush with AK of diamonds.

the wins put me back within $45 of even and i have a great chance when i table top pair (AQ) at showdown against a novice player.

the villain stares at the board for (easily) over thirty seconds, however, before finally tabling a rivered two pair with 86 off. :mad:

i can't really be mad at a player who is clearly new to the game but i am frustrated nonetheless at the situation which was the longest slow roll i've ever been beaten by. some days just aren't your day i guess. :)

next: diamond dinner!!

game -75 (3/6)
year -419 (7-10)
kk 0-1 (7-11)
promo 45 (755)
tier 6799 (117.48 hrs; -3.57/hr)

[proximity]

it should go without saying that before we play the games we have to arrive safely at the casinos but this is yet again proving to be a problem on our annual car inspection trip. before the first game of the trip a lady almost runs me off the road on 70 east while today i only have to dodge half of a big wooden desk laying, oh, just dead center in the middle of I-95. :rolleyes:

anyhow after employing some serious nascar skills i arrive at horseshoe and today's contest proves to be a back and forth affair.

as usual it's more back than forth to begin but eventually sets on back to back hands turn the tide back in my favor before two losses with pocket nines put the issue in doubt once again.

in the waning moments though KT flops two pair from the big blind and turns a boat and we pull ahead to stay.

out in the casino it's proximity poker tour diamond celebration dinner time and i'm joined by paceadvantage members track collector and ronsmac as well as ronsmac's beautiful girlfriend patty.

track collector flips a coin and binion's prevails over guy fieri's for the dinner, however, the absolute dime at the binion's desk informs me that we can't get in until...... 10:45. :eek:

since we're only in the middle of an important poker tour that's followed by pace handicappers all over the internet here, 10:45 is just going to be maybe a tad too late so it's guy fieri's by default and this proves to be an excellent alternative.

whenever you're around ronsmac and track collector you can bet your bottom dollar that the conversation will turn to rebates and of course it does. ronsmac teases his girlfriend about whether she favored irg or rgi but of course it always comes back to those pesky tonkawa indians!! i consider mentioning my own humble rebate roots (pony up bet, wy) but think better of it; the scene reminding me of a brief moment in jaws where chief brody quickly looks at but stays silent about a small wound on his stomach while hooper and quint are comparing scars from shark bites. :) about 1:53 in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1vDjZmb4lE

in about 25 years i can picture an elderly track collector at timonium telling a young horseplayer about the glory days of rebates:

......i'll never pick up a racing form again. so 1100 accounts went into the adw's, 316 came out, and the source market fees took the rest..... anyway, we got the rebates!! :D

seriously though, my deepest thanks to ronsmac, patty, and track collector for making it out although i greedily wish more paceadvantage members could've made it (we didn't even spend the whole food voucher) and implore all of our poker readers to consider coming in 2017!!

game +17 (3/6)
year -402 (8-10)
kk 0-0 (7-11)
promo 0 (755)
tier 7322 (125.44 hrs; -3.20/hr)

[ronsmac]

it should go without saying that before we play the games we have to arrive safely at the casinos but this is yet again proving to be a problem on our annual car inspection trip. before the first game of the trip a lady almost runs me off the road on 70 east while today i only have to dodge half of a big wooden desk laying, oh, just dead center in the middle of I-95. :rolleyes:

anyhow after employing some serious nascar skills i arrive at horseshoe and today's contest proves to be a back and forth affair.

as usual it's more back than forth to begin but eventually sets on back to back hands turn the tide back in my favor before two losses with pocket nines put the issue in doubt once again.

in the waning moments though KT flops two pair from the big blind and turns a boat and we pull ahead to stay.

out in the casino it's proximity poker tour diamond celebration dinner time and i'm joined by paceadvantage members track collector and ronsmac as well as ronsmac's beautiful girlfriend patty.

track collector flips a coin and binion's prevails over guy fieri's for the dinner, however, the absolute dime at the binion's desk informs me that we can't get in until...... 10:45. :eek:

since we're only in the middle of an important poker tour that's followed by pace handicappers all over the internet here, 10:45 is just going to be maybe a tad too late so it's guy fieri's by default and this proves to be an excellent alternative.

whenever you're around ronsmac and track collector you can bet your bottom dollar that the conversation will turn to rebates and of course it does. ronsmac teases his girlfriend about whether she favored irg or rgi but of course it always comes back to those pesky tonkawa indians!! i consider mentioning my own humble rebate roots (pony up bet, wy) but think better of it; the scene reminding me of a brief moment in jaws where chief brody quickly looks at but stays silent about a small wound on his stomach while hooper and quint are comparing scars from shark bites. :) about 1:53 in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1vDjZmb4lE

in about 25 years i can picture an elderly track collector at timonium telling a young horseplayer about the glory days of rebates:

......i'll never pick up a racing form again. so 1100 accounts went into the adw's, 316 came out, and the source market fees took the rest..... anyway, we got the rebates!! :D

seriously though, my deepest thanks to ronsmac, patty, and track collector for making it out although i greedily wish more paceadvantage members could've made it (we didn't even spend the whole food voucher) and implore all of our poker readers to consider coming in 2017!!

game +17 (3/6)
year -402 (8-10)
kk 0-0 (7-11)
promo 0 (755)
tier 7322 (125.44 hrs; -3.20/hr)Thanks a million Proximity. I had a blast. I still can't believe how many people were playing poker at the Shoe the other night. It was 14 degrees out and the place was still packed.

[proximity]

one final game on our 2016 car inspection trip and i start off hot when after a few early folds i look down at our old friend kk. :cool:

i fold out most of the field and eventually drag the pot but my lead is short lived when i see a flop of k85 with kj.

i bet, but a player named del stays with a limped 65 off and turns his little five.

i come right back though with TT beating del despite two overs on the board.

and the game continues back and forth like this. win with big pair, lose with small pair, win with big pair, lose with big cards, win with big pair,......

one hand with QQ though i flop a set but make a mistake on the turn.

it's down to three of us when a straight card hits the turn and the small blind suddenly bets out. a high percentage of the time at 'shoe this is a straight and a girl in middle position calls and i just call.

but wait a second.

the bettor only has $6 left in his stack and since i'm not going to fold the river i should've raised and got $6 more from the girl.

sure enough she folds the river and i do drag the pot when the small blind tables slow played aces...... but i can't be too happy as i recognize that i did make a bad limit hold em mistake.

it's getting late and i guess i'm getting tired, but do i smell too?

one girl moves away from me to "see the cards better" and i give my arm a quick sniff. i did shower before the game (and even used soap this time) and i still seem ok but the table has concerns about another regular prowling the room named geyser who has allegedly been there for two days (plus) without leaving.

geyser moves to an adjacent table and i don't notice any foul odor but there is an outburst as geyser suddenly erupts about another horseshoe poker controversy.

the floor is called and geyser is spewing from the mouth and i'm wondering how in the hell did i ever get myself into this environment but then remember that it sure beats the solitude of penn national's racing clubhouse.

thank you to horseshoe baltimore for the comps, promo chips, pyrex bowls, glasses and diamond celebration dinner!!

game +52 (3/6)
year -350 (9-10)
kk 2-0 (9-11)
promo 0 (755)
tier 7705 (130.06 hrs; -2.68/hr)

[Red Knave]

as geyser suddenly erupts about another horseshoe poker controversy. Pure Gold. :D

[Rookies]

Pure Gold. :D

Smelly, 2 day old street peeps, losing it?

PLATINUM, Sir! ;)

[Track Collector]

he has his division champion washington redskins jacket on and i think up a little song:

hail track collector!
hail victory!
promo chips and free gifts
so long
to old CT !! :)



This is VERY clever, and brought a huge smile!

I did go to CT last night because of a very late start, and fortunately had a very nice night. Most of the +$ came when I held AKs vs. another player's all in on the river with AQo on an A-high flop. Still slightly down for the year though.

That said, the above jingle has a lot of truth to it. Looks like my comps level is increasing to $40 worth of promo chips a week in March, and I have already "reserved" a $40 Shell gift card on a giveaway in early March. What a place!! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp::jump: CT does have free water/soda (when you tip the waitress.). :rolleyes:

[proximity]

three deep on a slow moving list i'm relaxing at a vacant horseshoe table while reading a copy of ante up magazine. inside there's a review of eddie miller's latest release the course where the author tells about a player he knows who is using the course to crush 1-3 and 2-5 right here at horseshoe baltimore!!

"too bad i'm not using ed's small stakes hold 'em to crush 3-6" i think but when the words "proximity for 3/6 hold 'em" suddenly come over the loudspeaker i'll get yet another chance.

today we start fast.

i flop a set of deuces in the very first hand and hold on for dear life, somehow winning the pot. and five minutes later it appears i'm headed for my second win of the contest when i raise KQ and seem to be in control of the hand following a flop of KT5 (two spades) with a red 8 on the turn.

red queen on the river gives me top two and i lead out again but i'm raised by one of the o'shortstack brothers and a veteran player makes it $18.

i stop to think and this frustrates o'shortstack who basically gives up his hand. the veteran player probably has AsJs and backed into the straight but he could also be using the momentum provided by o'shortstack to make a move at the pot.

i call and win the pot when he tables KJ.

five minutes later i win with QQ from the small blind and move ahead over $120, my hottest start in recent memory!!

as seen in the above KQ hand, "other" players can frequently influence the action at horseshoe. fortunately i made it through that hand but about three hours later with 52 from the big blind i wouldn't be so lucky.

four players limp, the small blind calls, and i check the option. the six of us see a flop of AQ4 rainbow. the small blind leads out with QX and i fold my gutshot straight draw. the next player raises (he has a limped AQ) and everyone calls. note here that if the small blind doesn't basically donk middle pair weak kicker into a field of five players behind him i get 11-1 (a little less with rake, bb, and tip) and could've called and won the pot here when my three hit the turn. but that is life at horseshoe and you gotta take the good with the bad.

fortunately today we're mostly getting the good.

about six hours in i flop a sets of tens and jacks and one dealer even misses my big blind again!! almost everything is going right!!

about an hour later i flop trip aces with A2 (bb) and get lucky again when the board pairs on the river to give me a chop!! a win with AQ puts me up over $300 but for the next two hours i go cold and don't win a single pot.

late in the game though i get back on track with AA, AQ, and JJ all winning to move me ahead $350 and back to even for the year. A2s though misses completely from the button and another orbit doesn't yield a playable hand.

overall though a much needed great game after what has been a horrible start to 2016. :)

game +343 (3/6)
year -7 (10-10)
kk 0-0 (9-11)
promo 45 (800)
tier 8352 (141.04 hrs; -0.05/hr)

[thaskalos]

Great job, Proximity! I knew that it was only a matter of time! :ThmbUp:

Now that you are flush with cash...how about springing for that Ed Miller book? :)

http://www.amazon.com/Course-Serious-Strategy-Smart-Players/dp/1511768320/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456089931&sr=1-1&keywords=ed+miller

[Track Collector]

I did buy the Ed Miller book (and I play at the Horseshoe).

Apparently I did not study the chapter close enough that goes into re-raising all in pre-flop with pocket Aces vs. an opponent's pocket Queens, and having a Queen show up in the flop. :( Need I tell you the results of my Saturday session? :bang:

Seriously though, that's why it is 80/20 and not 100/0.

Great results proximity, I hope they are the start of a prolonged roll! :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

I did buy the Ed Miller book (and I play at the Horseshoe).



Is it worth the $45?

[LottaKash]

[QUOTE=proximity]game +343 (3/6)
year -7 (10-10)
[QUOTE]

:jump: :jump: :jump:

[Rookies]

Good one, Proximity!

Make it Bk2Bk! :ThmbUp:

[Track Collector]

Is it worth the $45?

For someone at my level, yes.

For someone at your level, only if you are looking to add to your current poker book collection.

[proximity]

cuse.... :cool:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49416273&postcount=3950

[Track Collector]

cuse.... :cool:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49416273&postcount=3950

I am seriously thinking about getting some coaching from this guy during the next few months. I do recognize that coaching is not magical, as the level of learning will come from how much hard work I am willing to do away from the table and coaching sessions.

On the outside, coaching always seems costly, until we consider how many buy-ins we end up losing because of dumb and/or uneducated play. :)

[garyscpa]

cuse.... :cool:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49416273&postcount=3950

I started reading his thread when it was posted in the 2015 thread. Only up to page 130 so far, but pretty interesting.

[proximity]

with a 1-6 record and $603 of losses our 2016 tour didn't exactly start like we wanted but failure isn't getting knocked down, it's staying down and my faith in the mission never wavered. finally last time we were able to put together a good game and get back within $7 of even but minus seven isn't ahead and winning our next game and finally getting ahead for 2016 would be the goal for today's contest.

early on the cards weren't cooperating.

two missed straight draws, flopped trips beaten by a backdoor flush, a couple misses with suited aces; and an hour in we're down $81 without winning a single hand.

a lot of folding in the second hour and still no winners but about 2:10 into the game JJ finally puts me on the board despite a flop of KQQ.

what are these people calling with?

eventually losses with 77, KJ, and TT put me down three digits again but JTs goes runner-runner diamonds to win a big straddled pot and just like that we're within only $30.

around the four hour mark i go on a small surge to pull ahead $40+ but the next two hours are cold and i fall behind again heading into the game's final hour.

but both 75 and 86 flop two pair from my big blinds and trip kings hold this time to put us ahead to stay when my jack kicker plays over a villain's nine!!

the $57 win moves us ahead for the first time in 2016 but it's no license to get cocky as we won't soon forget this nightmare from right after we pulled back ahead on the 2015 tour:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1868722&postcount=198

for here and now though we're back where we belong.

back on top.

hopefully to stay.

thank you for reading!!

game +57 (3/6)
year +50 (11-10)
kk 0-0 (9-11)
promo 45 (845)
tier 8723 (148.46 hrs; +0.34/hr)

[fmhealth]

Here's the schedule for the 2016 WSOP.

http://www.wsop.com/tourney/tourneydetails.asp?groupID=1232

[garyscpa]

Here's the schedule for the 2016 WSOP.

http://www.wsop.com/tourney/tourneydetails.asp?groupID=1232

One small step for man, one giant leap for proximity. :D

[charm city whizz]

That's a crazy tier score proximty!!!!

May be rolling to parx Sunday to play in the mixed game there for a change of pace....pink game looked to be rolling at shoe im going there now, though Prob won't play in it with fear of breaking

Hope everybody as has a great weekend

[proximity]

That's a crazy tier score proximty!!!!

May be rolling to parx Sunday to play in the mixed game there for a change of pace....pink game looked to be rolling at shoe im going there now, though Prob won't play in it with fear of breaking

Hope everybody as has a great weekend

i left around 2:30 and think it was still going like 5 or 6 handed and i think they were playing hore (no stud hi)??

side note: unbelievable (35 and under) line to get in there at..... three o'clock in the morning! :eek:

[proximity]

the $57 win moves us ahead for the first time in 2016 but it's no license to get cocky as we won't soon forget this nightmare from right after we pulled back ahead on the 2015 tour:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1868722&postcount=198


we last left off with a $57 win which moved us ahead for the year and were looking to avoid a repeat of the above mentioned 2015 disaster when we returned to horseshoe for more exciting limit hold 'em action.

instead of another slow proximity poker tour start though, today we would blast out of the gate getting wins with both AA and AK in my very first orbit at the table.

and before i could catch my breath, i'd book another win with AA to move ahead over $140 just a half hour into the game!!

over the next three and a half hours though the game struggled to stay full and as it lost momentum, so did i.

eventually my lead would fall to just over $50 but two more quick wins with AA would put me up three digits yet again..... this time to stay.

as the night progressed i had some setbacks but was pretty much getting hit with the deck.

i ended up with five or six wins with AA (lost count) and finished 2-1 with KK.

late in the contest i flopped a straight with 76s (flop 985) from the button and looked to set a new proximity poker tour record by moving ahead over $400 for the game.

however, the board runs out J-T and i'm beaten on the river by Q7 and have to settle for a mere $309 win.

it's cold outside but in february we're always red hot here on the proximity poker tour. yet another great second month of the year. **

game +309 (3/6)
year +359 (12-10)
kk 2-1 (11-12)
promo 45 (890)
tier 9405 (159.6 hrs; +2.25/hr)

** i would like to dedicate this game to my grandma who (just days short of her 100th birthday) died in the hospital friday while it was being played. thank you grandma for.... EVERYTHING. ** :(

[tucker6]

we last left off with a $57 win which moved us ahead for the year and were looking to avoid a repeat of the above mentioned 2015 disaster when we returned to horseshoe for more exciting limit hold 'em action.

instead of another slow proximity poker tour start though, today we would blast out of the gate getting wins with both AA and AK in my very first orbit at the table.

and before i could catch my breath, i'd book another win with AA to move ahead over $140 just a half hour into the game!!

over the next three and a half hours though the game struggled to stay full and as it lost momentum, so did i.

eventually my lead would fall to just over $50 but two more quick wins with AA would put me up three digits yet again..... this time to stay.

as the night progressed i had some setbacks but was pretty much getting hit with the deck.

i ended up with five or six wins with AA (lost count) and finished 2-1 with KK.

late in the contest i flopped a straight with 76s (flop 985) from the button and looked to set a new proximity poker tour record by moving ahead over $400 for the game.

however, the board runs out J-T and i'm beaten on the river by Q7 and have to settle for a mere $309 win.

it's cold outside but in february we're always red hot here on the proximity poker tour. yet another great second month of the year. **

game +309 (3/6)
year +359 (12-10)
kk 2-1 (11-12)
promo 45 (890)
tier 9405 (159.6 hrs; +2.25/hr)

** i would like to dedicate this game to my grandma who (just days short of her 100th birthday) died in the hospital friday while it was being played. thank you grandma for.... EVERYTHING. ** :(
condolences Proximity

[ronsmac]

we last left off with a $57 win which moved us ahead for the year and were looking to avoid a repeat of the above mentioned 2015 disaster when we returned to horseshoe for more exciting limit hold 'em action.

instead of another slow proximity poker tour start though, today we would blast out of the gate getting wins with both AA and AK in my very first orbit at the table.

and before i could catch my breath, i'd book another win with AA to move ahead over $140 just a half hour into the game!!

over the next three and a half hours though the game struggled to stay full and as it lost momentum, so did i.

eventually my lead would fall to just over $50 but two more quick wins with AA would put me up three digits yet again..... this time to stay.

as the night progressed i had some setbacks but was pretty much getting hit with the deck.

i ended up with five or six wins with AA (lost count) and finished 2-1 with KK.

late in the contest i flopped a straight with 76s (flop 985) from the button and looked to set a new proximity poker tour record by moving ahead over $400 for the game.

however, the board runs out J-T and i'm beaten on the river by Q7 and have to settle for a mere $309 win.

it's cold outside but in february we're always red hot here on the proximity poker tour. yet another great second month of the year. **

game +309 (3/6)
year +359 (12-10)
kk 2-1 (11-12)
promo 45 (890)
tier 9405 (159.6 hrs; +2.25/hr)

** i would like to dedicate this game to my grandma who (just days short of her 100th birthday) died in the hospital friday while it was being played. thank you grandma for.... EVERYTHING. ** :(Sorry about your Grand Mother. 100 years. What a long life. She could probably tell a million stories about the good old days.

[Track Collector]

Add my condolences about your grandmother. Her age was remarkable, but that still does not replace the hurt of having to say goodbye.

[proximity]

thank you for the condolences guys. despite her age it was somewhat unexpected, at least to me.

there will be a funeral on thursday and we'll look to make our return to the horseshoe felt on friday for shell gift card giveaway day. :)

[Red Knave]

** i would like to dedicate this game to my grandma who (just days short of her 100th birthday) died in the hospital friday while it was being played. thank you grandma for.... EVERYTHING. ** :(
Sad news indeed. She obviously meant a lot to you. My condolences to you and the family.
Make her proud. :ThmbUp:

[Rookies]

** i would like to dedicate this game to my grandma who (just days short of her 100th birthday) died in the hospital friday while it was being played. thank you grandma for.... EVERYTHING. **

:ThmbUp: :)

[ronsmac]

Add my condolences about your grandmother. Her age was remarkable, but that still does not replace the hurt of having to say goodbye.So true.

[proximity]

greetings poker fans!!

we return today with more exciting hold 'em action from the beautiful horseshoe baltimore!!

no promo chips today but the gifts keep rolling in as the shoe gives me a $50 shell gift card!! baltimore newcomer track collector even gets an impressive $40 as he continues his march towards caesar's total rewards platinum status!!!! :cool:

unfortunately track collector runs AA into QQQ and suffers a rare 'shoe loss.

meanwhile i've been on a winning streak at horseshoe and looked to extend it with 88.

flop: A86 :)

turn: A :cool:

but when yet another ace falls on the river i chop with.... wait for it.... 84 off, and even politely tell the villain to flip over his other card when he only tables the eight. :rolleyes:

what a joke!!

KK falls to T6 in another vintage horseshoe hand although the cowboys later drag a small pot with a flopped set.

despite being aided by a chronic straddler on my right, other big pairs were not as fortunate:

** i raise JJ to $9. K9 off calls three cold and flops a king.

** i raise AA to $9. QTs calls three cold and turns a flush. (of course my redraw to the nuts misses completely on the river)

** i raise TT to $9, j8 off calls three cold and flops a jack.

** i raise QQ to $6. multiple players call the raise with 6x...... :rolleyes:

fortunately though about halfway through the contest i flop an ace high (nut) flush and get in against two other flopped flushes!!!!

unfortunately a player with a king high flush ends up all in when the turn gets capped but the river still goes to $24 and despite all the category one sklansky losses our winning streak continues on!!

game +59 (3/6)
year +418 (13-10)
kk 1-1 (12-13)
promo 0 (890)
tier 9783 (167.16 hrs; +2.50/hr)

[proximity]

cuse.... :cool:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49416273&postcount=3950


damn..... :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49542158&postcount=3979

[Red Knave]

damn..... :eek: :eek: :eek:
Double damn http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/03/09/robbers-allegedly-tracked-gambler-with-gps-they-hid-on-car.html

Proximity, did you hear about this?
You should maybe stop posting your wins. :)

[Rookies]

Double damn http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/03/09/robbers-allegedly-tracked-gambler-with-gps-they-hid-on-car.html

Proximity, did you hear about this?
You should maybe stop posting your wins. :)

WOW! Sharp crooks :eek:

Who woulda thunk it?

[thaskalos]

WOW! Sharp crooks :eek:

Who woulda thunk it?

The same thing happened at our local OTB a couple of years ago. One of the unsavory characters in the place attached a GPS device to the car of the most frequent customer there. That's how it was discovered that this regular patron was living in his car.

[Rookies]

The same thing happened at our local OTB a couple of years ago. One of the unsavory characters in the place attached a GPS device to the car of the most frequent customer there. That's how it was discovered that this regular patron was living in his car.

:eek: :eek:

Unforeseen turn of events... :rolleyes: :blush:

[TJDave]

The same thing happened at our local OTB a couple of years ago. One of the unsavory characters in the place attached a GPS device to the car of the most frequent customer there. That's how it was discovered that this regular patron was living in his car.

I won't ask how this became common knowledge. ;)

[proximity]

our next game report brings us back to maryland with plans to pick up some promo chips and a quick win at horseshoe before heading over to maryland live! for another win before stopping back at horseshoe to get some more promo chips on my way out of town.

i arrive safely at horseshoe and get my first promo chips but i'm struggling with the "quick win" part. that usually requires winning some pots and at two hours in i haven't pulled in a single one.

a new player named anna nicole enters the game and quickly wins her first ever pot in a live casino game and five minutes later she wins another.

it's an easy game and an easy life as she's going to college and studying nuclear science and loves her classes and has a crazy teacher who wears dark glasses and things are going great and are only getting better.

i guess i should be happy for her but how happy can a gambler really be when he's losing to donkeys at the horseshoe in the middle of the night?

finally, however, shortly after anna nicole's second lifetime win i get on the board with AKs and a chop and two outright wins later it's a new ballgame as i'm back within $5 of even with my sights set on pulling ahead and moving my tack over to maryland live!.

for the next two hours though i take another pounding and fall behind over $100. the trip to live! is going to be cancelled but there's still hope for this game when i turn a straight to drag a big pot that again puts me in striking distance at minus twenty dollars.

down the stretch though i lose pretty much every hand i'm involved in. KK is leading on a nine high flop but a jack on the turn gives J9 top two. no luck on the river and we finish 0-1 with the cowboys. six o'clock (more promo chips are available then) can't get here soon enough. :bang:

game -165 (3/6)
year +253 (13-11)
kk 0-1 (12-14)
promo 90 (980)
tier 10145 (174.4 hrs, +1.45/hr)

[proximity]

sorry if the reports are getting groundhog day boring with the same trip to horseshoe over and over and over again but this is a casino that clearly deserves my business with the tremendous benefits that they give and rumor has it that they could get even better with a possible 50% tier credit bonus coming for april, may, and june!! and it even looks like "bonus" tier credits will get the extra bonus too which (at least in my caesar's career) is unprecedented!!

for today's marathon session i'd love to mix it up and take a trip to charles town but it's hard enough to look at my ugly mug in the mirror every morning without having to live with the added shame of knowing i bent over for pen gaming. what a sad and sorry joke of an operation they are!!

anyhow i'm back at horseshoe for a marathon session and unfortunately it's another slow start. i quickly lose with kk and a couple missed draws later i'm down $80. after three wins with AQ however, i surge ahead for the first time in the game. meanwhile track collector is struggling over at table 59 and i go downstairs to buy us some kit kats. (it's a cheat day on the poker isometrics diet ;) ) we hear the name "robert m" several times over the loudspeaker but never do see the legendary borgata tournament dealer.

track collector departs early with a rare baltimore loss while back at the limit tables i manage to keep my head slightly above water until about 11:00 when i flop a set of 8s (854 flop) . running dimes though give a bigger full house to a villain who limped with T5 off and i fall behind.

yes, people play hands like T5 off at horseshoe and in fact one pot was even chopped with two players continuing with 83 off.... and NOT from the blinds. :rolleyes:

in the next five hours i do drag a small win with KK and flop a boat with A7s but overall it's another "suck down" as i lose hand after hand after hand after hand.....

around 5:00 am AQ loses to a dominated AJ and i toss my last $6 in on KT and miss completely. by this point the game is running shorthanded but one or two players don't want to break so i opt not to rebuy and instead take a depressing walk around the casino until i can get my next promo chips at 6:00.

overall it's shaping up as yet another bad month of march on the proximity poker tour. in a positive note though $35 of promo chips do put me over $1000 on the year in that category. :)

game -200 (3/6)
year +53 (13-12)
kk 1-1 (13-15)
promo 35 (1015)
tier 11025 (189.5 hrs; +0.28/hr)

[proximity]

sorry for my extended absence poker fans. unfortunately my mom has been really sick and i haven't been going to the casinos but yesterday i was able to make a return to horseshoe baltimore for a special diamond renewal day!!

special thanks to horseshoe for another free gift, this time it was a nice eddie bauer soft shell jacket with the total rewards logo on one shoulder. it woulda been REALLY cool if there was a diamond (or 7 stars) on the other shoulder but that is just nit-picking as this was very generous of the casino to do this.

they also gave us special diamond parking passes to hook on our rear view mirrors but since i (habitually) don't park in the elite diamond spaces i thought of giving it to track collector as a belated birthday gift.

stuff like that can get you in trouble at the casinos though. for example, rumor has it that another "regular" has been suspended (?) for using/ swiping another player's total rewards card. the bottom line is that in the middle of a 50% tier credit bonus (combined with the already tremendous horseshoe benefits)....it just isn't worth it to cheat. and track collector will be diamond soon enough anyhow!! :cool:

unfortunately on the felt i picked up where i left off..... losing.

i can't even say i won ten hands in eleven hours of play. i won one early with AJ and then with AA about two hours in, but there were long gaps between wins in this one. 76 s from late position flopped two pair (765) and beat a guy who limped 75 off from early position and JT off (very overrated hand) turned a straight from a big blind.

late in the game i had one final chance to pick up a good pot when i flopped a set of 2s but couldn't pair the board against my neighbor who flopped the ace high flush.

third consecutive big loss puts me behind again for the year. :bang:

game -205 (3/6)
year -152 (13-13)
kk 0-0 (13-15)
promo 45 (1060)
tier 11,710 (200.7 hrs; -0.76/hr)

[PaceAdvantage]

Welcome back! And here's hoping your mom is on the road to feeling 100% again.

[Track Collector]

I spoke with proximity in person for about 20 minutes at the Horseshoe yesterday.

Definitely keep he and his mom in your prayers, for it is a very difficult situation.

[tucker6]

I'll be thinking of you and your mom today Proximity.

[proximity]

thank you everyone for the thoughts and prayers. as track collector mentioned it isn't a very good situation but i'll still try to make it out to the casinos and post reports when i can.

track collector mentioned sunday's game and i started off slow in that one. KK lost to a turned gutshot to drop to 13-16 (w-l)for the year and i lost several times with pocket 8s. in the end though i hang tough and rally for a $6 victory... not enough to move back ahead for the year, but at least it wasn't another three digit loss.

it's dirt devil express v6 day at horseshoe and i decide to take this gift instead of free slots play.

another generous gift from the casino but the v6 doesn't seem to have much suction power. maybe i should've read some reviews first??

http://dirtdevil.com/products/details/bd10200/express-v6-cordless-bagless-handheld-vacuum/

game +6 (3/6)
year -146 (14-13)
kk 0-1 (13-16)
promo 35 (1095)
tier 11,953 (205.56 hrs; -0.71/hr)

[proximity]

thank you everyone for the thoughts and prayers. as track collector mentioned it isn't a very good situation but i'll still try to make it out to the casinos and post reports when i can.

i am sorry to report that my mom died peacefully late last night with me and my family by her side.

i would like to thank everyone here who offered thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to me since she was first hospitalized late in our 2014 poker tour thread.

it is hard on me because growing up i always thought we would have a lot more time but i also know that i was lucky to have the time with her that i did. and what a great time it was.

right now i can't say when i'll be back to poker but even if it isn't until may there is still plenty of time to grind to my 2016 goals of 40,000 caesar's tier credits, thousands of dollars of profits, and lots of fun times along the way.

as always, thank you for reading.

--proximity :)

[garyscpa]

Condolences.

[tucker6]

Sucks to get on here and read your post Proximity, but your perspective is in the right place so I know you'll be just fine. My condolences to you and your family.

[PaceAdvantage]

i am sorry to report that my mom died peacefully late last night with me and my family by her side.

i would like to thank everyone here who offered thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to me since she was first hospitalized late in our 2014 poker tour thread.

it is hard on me because growing up i always thought we would have a lot more time but i also know that i was lucky to have the time with her that i did. and what a great time it was.

right now i can't say when i'll be back to poker but even if it isn't until may there is still plenty of time to grind to my 2016 goals of 40,000 caesar's tier credits, thousands of dollars of profits, and lots of fun times along the way.

as always, thank you for reading.

--proximity :)So very sorry to read this. I lost my mom in 2013 far sooner than I ever expected, so I know what you're going through...always thinking you'll have a lot more time together on this plane of existence.

My deepest sympathy to you and yours...

[Rookies]

i am sorry to report that my mom died peacefully late last night with me and my family by her side.

i would like to thank everyone here who offered thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to me since she was first hospitalized late in our 2014 poker tour thread.

it is hard on me because growing up i always thought we would have a lot more time but i also know that i was lucky to have the time with her that i did. and what a great time it was.

right now i can't say when i'll be back to poker but even if it isn't until may there is still plenty of time to grind to my 2016 goals of 40,000 caesar's tier credits, thousands of dollars of profits, and lots of fun times along the way.

as always, thank you for reading.

--proximity :)

My condolences, Proximity.

My Dad died when he was 51 & I 12. That was 52 years ago.

It was a life altering event.

[Red Knave]

Sorry to have missed this earlier. We were visiting my 93 yr old mother and I was thinking the same things you are Prox. Enjoy your family whenever and wherever you can. Life can suck sometimes.

My deepest condolences to you and your family. Looking forward to reading about your battles in the future.

Peace.

[ronsmac]

i am sorry to report that my mom died peacefully late last night with me and my family by her side.

i would like to thank everyone here who offered thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to me since she was first hospitalized late in our 2014 poker tour thread.

it is hard on me because growing up i always thought we would have a lot more time but i also know that i was lucky to have the time with her that i did. and what a great time it was.

right now i can't say when i'll be back to poker but even if it isn't until may there is still plenty of time to grind to my 2016 goals of 40,000 caesar's tier credits, thousands of dollars of profits, and lots of fun times along the way.

as always, thank you for reading.

--proximity :)I'm so sorry to hear this sad sad news. My condolences Shayne.

[proximity]

thank you to everyone here for the condolences that you posted and texted.

tuesday we had a funeral and after a lot of sleep i decided to take off for bally's atlantic city on wednesday night in an attempt to try and ease back into becoming normal grinding proximity again.

i arrive at bally's around 11:00 and there are about a dozen people in line to check in, but no one is in the diamond line. back in baltimore we may take our diamond cards for granted but in atlantic city the diamonds are rare and it is good to have the card and experience more of the benefits.

apparently bally's doesn't have my non-smoking king room that i reserved in the curtisonthebay tower but (after disappearing for a few minutes into the back) the woman at check in upgrades me to a bally's tower suite. in the morning i actually see that the suite is "smoking" but you can't really tell and although i don't need the extra space the room has a great view of the ocean, beach, and boardwalk. thank you, bally's!!

after settling in and checking the phillies score i head down to the poker room and jump right into some exciting 246 limit hold 'em action. five minutes in i turn a set with our old friend KK and sprint out to a $31 lead. after a couple losses with AQ, however, the lead falls to only $13. before long, i get KK again but another player turns a straight and the game breaks before i can get back on track.

game -6 (246 lim)
year -152 (14-14)
kk 1-1 (14-17)
promo 0 (1095)
tier 12,021 (206.39 hrs; -0.74/hr)

[proximity]

greetings poker fans!!

we are back again at exciting bally's atlantic city for more intense 2-4-6 limit hold 'em action!!

it's a sad afternoon at bally's as music legend prince has died, but there are $350 hourly high hands to pay out so the games must go on.

now i'm just trying to dip my toes back into poker's icy waters here in atlantic city and never suspected that i was about to sit down in maybe the best seat of my poker "career."

for today's game i'm positioned to the immediate left of a player i'll call "raisey" and i can't believe i'm typing this but i think this guy is even worse than maryland legend aunt hortense! (see past reports) :faint: :faint: :faint:

raisey is baaaad. so bad that no words i type will do the depths of his game justice. you'll just have to take my word for it.

"raise" is apparently the only poker term he knows. first to act post flop he'll toss his two dollars out and say "raise." dealers quickly stop even trying to correct him and the crusty but wise old ac "regs" don't even think of saying anything.

"just keep firing those bets in, pal."

naturally, i don't even get a hand to play against this guy until about thirty minutes in... when i do get a hand: AA. :cool:

raisey does what he always does and of course i re-pop it to $6.

some of the "regs" raise their eyebrows that i'm finally playing a hand but a few call three cold anyhow before raisey caps the pre-flop betting at $8.

flop: AcKcQ :)

turn: Q :) :)

river: Jc :) :) :) (possible royal with Qc Tc)

and then raisey and i get into a raising war.

we're going back and forth. i'm only beaten by quad queens or a royal flush and with this many raises you'd expect 99% of villains to have one of those hands.

"what a sick loss this is going to be," i think, as most of my play is at horseshoe baltimore where losing would get me a $2500 bad beat for this hand.... while here in ac i'll get nothing.

eventually i just call and scoop the pot when the new worst player in mid-atlantic limit hold 'em just flips over a non-club ten for a humble straight. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

unfortunately i don't do much else in the game but thanks to the big hand against raisey i hold on for a $73 win and bally's gives me a $15 food voucher since i played more than five hours in the session.

i'd say "thank you bally's" but i soon find out that i'll really need that $15 to help pay my bill at noodle village where i purchase possibly the most expensive general tso's on the entire east coast.

then out in the casino i fall for another scam when i sit down for some $10 blackjack. :bang: :bang: :bang:

i'm playing at a table with ice cube, yukon cornelius ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUteEurBtqU ), and leather tuscadero from happy days.

now it's not like i'm ken uston or anything, but these players are baaad.

ice cube is getting mad at leather for hitting 15s against 8s, leather is standing on soft 17s, and let's just say that yukon cornelius did not exactly strike bally's blackjack gold.

fortunately i get up with a small win and, still not believing all the bad poker and blackjack play, in morning count my money to make sure it wasn't all a crazy casino dream.

game +73 (246)
year -79 (15-14)
kk 0-0 (14-17)
promo 0 (1095)
tier 12,135 (211.72 hrs; -0.37/hr)

[proximity]

after an interesting thursday in atlantic city i wake up friday morning to a beautiful view from my bally's tower suite.

i take a morning walk from bally's down to taj mahal and then all the way back to tropicana where i stop for some breakfast at country kitchen by days inn.

back at bally's i check out of the hotel and down in the wild west poker room i jump back in to another 2-4-6 limit game. unfortunately raisey is nowhere to be found. i am a couple seats left of a younger player who doesn't seem too good but overall this table is pretty tight and quite different from what i've been facing in maryland.

i start slow, missing with several promising draws, but look to get on the board with KK facing 74 heads up.

but 74 takes it down and after an hour of play i still haven't won a hand.

five minutes later though i again look down at KK and this time the cowboys hold up and i'm on the board.

thirty minutes later though i drop another one with KK and fall behind over $50 in this tightly played contest. there's probably been more chopped blinds in this one game alone than i've seen in maryland all year. this game is TIGHT and i start to worry about whether i'll be able to come back.

finally around 5:00 though i get KK yet again and win a nice pot to move me back to even for the game!!

when i get a flush with 86s from the big blind though i'm beaten by a ten high flush and the issue is again in doubt.

in the game's waning moments though JJ flops a jack and rivers a boat to pull me back ahead to stay!!

game +6 (246 lim)
year -73 (16-14)
kk 2-2 (16-19)
promo 0 (1095)
tier 12,170 (215.92 hrs; -0.34/hr)

[proximity]

we are back in beautiful atlantic city where a late set of jacks that filled up on the river just helped us survive a tight afternoon 2-4-6 tilt.

after the game i take a stroll down the boardwalk to see what's going on at the taj. is the poker room really reopening? are the rumors true??

unfortunately a light drizzle doesn't keep the panhandlers from pouncing. to me this is the worst part of atlantic city. a good walk ruined, if you will. i develop a technique where i ask them for $3, but really just gtf away from me.

down at taj there's some construction going on in the poker room and a sign that says that they WILL be reopening in may. olivia newton john is scheduled to appear at 9:00 and i make up a little song:

a casino
where nobody dared to go
the scum on the chips
did grow
they call it taj ma-hal

and now
open your eyes and see
the new opening is real
this may at taj ma-hal

a million lights are dancing
and there you are
a poker star
an everlasting game
with worm and mikey
eternally
taj ma-hal
taj ma- haaaalll....


back at bally's i'm stuck on a short list for 2-4-6 and take a lap around the casino where out in the "wild west" section i spot our old friend from timonium fair, the mechanical bull!!!

multi-sport star jd acosta is nowhere to be found and one fat guy tries to ride the bull without paying but immediately falls off. like timonium, it's $5 to ride at bally's and i joke to a stoic young security girl that i'm not sure i would ride the thing if bally's paid me $5. she's not impressed with my attempt at humor. fortunately back in the poker room it's finally game time.

i start slow in this one but eventually get on the board with KQ flopping top pair (q) and turning trip queens.

with QQ though i'm leading a big field on the flop but a no limit expert with JJ turns a jack and i fall behind again. AK then flops top two but falls to a limped KK and it looks like i'll be leaving atlantic city on a losing note.

late in the contest though i notch wins with AA and then 54 from the big blind!! i suffer one final a.c. loss with AQ but in the end hold on for another mini win.

game +3 (246 lim)
year -70 (17-14)
kk 0-0 (16-19)
promo 0 (1095)
tier 12,205 (219.92 hrs; -0.32/hr)

[proximity]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49928263&postcount=4089

is anyone here still following the cuserounder thread on 2+2??

i find it incredibly hard to believe that 'cuse would even for a second consider folding this hand at horseshoe baltimore??????? :confused: :confused:

i know he's the real deal, but wow. hopefully he'll elaborate more on the circumstances of the hand....

[Red Knave]

i find it incredibly hard to believe that 'cuse would even for a second consider folding this hand at horseshoe baltimore??????? :confused: :confused:
Worried about TT? I don't follow 2+2 but if you find out let us know.

[garyscpa]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49928263&postcount=4089

is anyone here still following the cuserounder thread on 2+2??

i find it incredibly hard to believe that 'cuse would even for a second consider folding this hand at horseshoe baltimore??????? :confused: :confused:

i know he's the real deal, but wow. hopefully he'll elaborate more on the circumstances of the hand....

I'm only up to page 152.

[charm city whizz]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49928263&postcount=4089

is anyone here still following the cuserounder thread on 2+2??

i find it incredibly hard to believe that 'cuse would even for a second consider folding this hand at horseshoe baltimore??????? :confused: :confused:

i know he's the real deal, but wow. hopefully he'll elaborate more on the circumstances of the hand....


Oh god now I gotta start reading this thresd on 2+2

Other good one is "from aids to paid the story of Randall graves"

[proximity]

Oh god now I gotta start reading this thresd on 2+2

Other good one is "from aids to paid the story of Randall graves"

you probably deal to cuserounder a lot.

"from aids to paid," i'm afraid to click on.

i didn't play last week and don't know if i'll make it thursday or friday but i'm going to try and have a big day (1000 tier credits) at horseshoe on saturday.

[Track Collector]

I'm going to try to hit the Horseshoe tomorrow, likely in the late afternoon or early evening.

Last Thursday I hit a high hand promo worth $300. It was only AAAJJ but happened literally just seconds before the time period. Thank you Horseshoe! :jump:

I'm Platinum now, but a ways to go to Diamond. Going to try to get in as much play as possible thru June where they have accelerated/bonus Tier Credits.

Maybe I'll be hosting a Diamond Dinner in 1Q17. :)

Good to hear from Charm City Whizz too. Hope you are doing well buddy, and only about 4 1/2 months until you can add to your consecutive "Timonium Fan of the Day" award!

[proximity]

for some reason (maybe the blackjack at bally's?) caesar's has added 119 tier credits to my total. so i now have 12,324 entering today's action!!

updated stats:

year -70 (17-14)
kk 16-19-0
promo 1095
tier 12,324 (219.92 hrs; -0.32/hr)
__________________

[proximity]

as promised we return to horseshoe baltimore for a marathon session; our goal to earn 1,000 tier credits which triggers an immediate 1,000 tier credit bonus with the combined 2,000 tier credits eventually earning another 1,000 tier credits for the spring bonus which will be paid off in july!!

so a potential 3,000 tier credit day!!

i arrive at horseshoe early and hop on the list for a 3/6 game that's already runnning due to the popular "high hand" bonus that is going on. my first goal is to earn 100 tier credits on slots and blackjack by noon and then grind out the rest on poker. before long however i'm called for a brand new game and it's cards in the air at 10:52am.

i'm holding my own early. around 1:00 aunt hortense enters the fray but i can't get in any pots with her and when she leaves around 3:00 i'm only down $2 but spend the next three plus hours getting pounded. at minus 146 i take a break to get a bowl of chili before the derby but i'm stranded in line behind two ladies who are ordering for what seems like half the casino. just when you think the order is over they shout for brenda over at piezetta; "brendaaaaa what kind of smoothie to you want......"

rinse and repeat. finally when i do get to order they "don't have chili anymore" although it's still on the menu. another great day in the life of proximity. :rolleyes:

after the derby i get on board with AK and then channeling my inner "cuse" make a hero call with ace high. the villain immediately mucks and i'm back to "only" minus 83.

after 7:00 though things go bad again. i lose with sets of 2s, Ks, and eventually 5s to fall behind $200 at midnight.

with AK i flop an ace but a cutie at the other end of the table has A6 and also flops a six. no help on the turn or river and we're minus 260.

before 1:00 though i win a pre-flop capped pot with AA to move back to only minus 158.

but then the losing resumes and i'm down $220 around 3:15 when my neighbor, a horseplayer who hours earlier hit the 13-11 exacta, splashes the pot.

the floor is called and he's told to put the chips into the pot in a "gentlemanly manner" when betting or raising.

"but i was just calling," the horseplayer replies, causing the floor to erupt about playing semantics. :D

win, lose, or draw you gotta love live poker!! :)

eventually a set of 4s actually wins and gets me back to within $200 of even.

and then around 4:00 i turn trip aces and bet again after i got a lot of calls on the flop. everyone folds to my turn bet though and for a second i wonder if i just should've checked behind to try to river a high hand..... a play that's completely at odds with one of my main horseshoe tenets: BET THE TURN!

in the end i decide that i made the right play though, especially since some of my high hand focused opponents probably wouldn't expect me to bet the aces and would be even more prone to call here. oh well.

finally around 5:00 there's controversy at the table when a young fireman is offended when he mocks a casino employee (bbj/rake drop security) and is told to "focus on the cards."

the fireman says he couldn't get away with this at the firehouse and he's not going to be treated like that by someone making "$8.50 an hour" and proceeds to hunt down a "supervisor" to rat the guy out.

this is a molehill if there ever was one but horseshoe management assures the kid that they're taking it seriously (lol) and want the fireman to fill out a report. eventually though he settles for an apology and the flames of his rage are doused. at minus $190 i wish the same could be said for me but there's still business to be done out in the casino where i grind out the rest of my tier credits on a quarter slot.

it is at least a safe trip home and i will sleep through the sadness of 2016 mother's day. :(

game -190 (3/6)
year -260 (17-15)
kk 0-1 (16-20)
promo 85 (1180)
tier 14,330 (238.25 hrs; -1.09/hr)

[proximity]

really interesting ted forrest thread on that other site:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/ted-forrest-754316/

recent action picks up around page nine. "cuse" thinks the guy's ok but not everyone seems to agree. really interesting post by uphillbothways on page 21:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49991954&postcount=303

any high/mid stud or mixed rollers here ever play this guy? whizz?? dilane?? anyone??

[proximity]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50003294&postcount=1882

good post just this morning by 'cuse on downswings and the "abyss."

he says he's had 500 hour live downswings and thinks even a good no limit player could go for 1,000......

[Track Collector]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50003294&postcount=1882

good post just this morning by 'cuse on downswings and the "abyss."

he says he's had 500 hour live downswings and thinks even a good no limit player could go for 1,000......

Yuck! So if one plays 10 hours a week, the downswing could be 2 YEARS!

Now if you are a bad player, the downswing amounts would be even much worse.

[charm city whizz]

really interesting ted forrest thread on that other site:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/ted-forrest-754316/

recent action picks up around page nine. "cuse" thinks the guy's ok but not everyone seems to agree. really interesting post by uphillbothways on page 21:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=49991954&postcount=303

any high/mid stud or mixed rollers here ever play this guy? whizz?? dilane?? anyone??


Think I know this guy but not his name.....Ted Forrest is trash, but better player then this guy makes him out to be in limit holdem....seen him steamroll 200/400 on more then one occasion

[charm city whizz]

Can't wait to start playing again....even Gonna get coached by a player I think since I can't find stud action and my no limit game is at best sub par

[proximity]

Yuck! So if one plays 10 hours a week, the downswing could be 2 YEARS!


fortunately our casino has our backs!! :)

[proximity]

Can't wait to start playing again....even Gonna get coached by a player I think since I can't find stud action and my no limit game is at best sub par

don't know about plain stud high games but do you think you might find some decent mixed action when the mgm opens???

[charm city whizz]

don't know about plain stud high games but do you think you might find some decent mixed action when the mgm opens???

No.....its just a lost cause, maybe 75/150 limit holdem but the mixed game era in the low-mid level stakes are a thing of the past

thaskalos doesn't post here anymore I've been reading about 5 card draw...was wondering of he or anybody here had any war stories as no limit draw just fascinates me

Hmmmmm....bet 1200 take no cards and then bet 3000 and you got trip kings what do you do....poker in its purest form

[proximity]

after waking up incredibly late on thursday i should probably cancel my poker plans and just wait until friday to play but i'm itching for action and eventually get my car pointed towards baltimore for an all night session.

the orioles-tigers game is just letting out as i turn onto russell street but i'm actually worried about the phillies score. velasquez was cruising (again) through six when suddenly the humble braves quickly put up a four spot to tie the game as i cross the mason-dixon line and lose the signal. :bang:

unfortunately at the table though i have a lot of time to check the scores as i'm folding rags for the first thirty minutes of the game. i find out that the phillies did end up winning and i look to do the same when i look down at KK. :cool:

i raise to six from the button but can't fold out a small blind that completes with J8 off and turns a lousy straight after i flop a set. :faint: (of course) no help on the river and we're down $51 when the game breaks and i'm sent to a table of COMPLETE amateurs.

unfortunately though it's more rags at the new table until i call a donkey's straddle with A9 from the big blind.

a big field checks a board of Q55 ? J until "donkey" bets the river from late position. i'm pretty sure this is a bluff and i can't let this pot go and make the call. it turns out i'm right and my ace high does beat the bettor but another player behind me, a girl named peppermint patty (in town on business from milwaukee) also called with Jx to win the pot.

i immediately realize that i made a terrible mistake here by not raising and quietly blurt out "i should've raised there" in frustration.

but peppermint patty hears me and says she woulda called the two cold with her Jx and the bettor still to act behind her, so maybe i saved $6? i'm not sure i believed her but she did lose that pot AND the rest of her stack in the next fifteen minutes..... so who knows for sure?

anyhow i think good players raise there so i'm kicking myself for letting the pot slip away.

eventually i get back close to even with 88 but KK loses AGAIN to a straight and a set of tens fall to another donkey who hits a gutterball with 63 off suit from middle position. then around 2:00 the game breaks!! :faint:

what a disaster!

game -78 (3/6)
year -338 (17-16)
kk 0-2 (16-22)
promo 40 (1220)
tier 14,481
(241.27 hrs; -1.40/hr)

[proximity]

well another bitter loss at horseshoe and then the game breaks at only 2:00? :bang:

i won't get any caesar's tier credits from it but i decide to drive over to 'shoe rival maryland live! to collect my thoughts and play a little 4-8 before i can get my next horseshoe promo chips at 6:00 am.

maryland live! isn't much busier than 'shoe but at least there's a game going and i walk around the casino a few times before my name is called for some blue chip ($2) 4-8 limit hold 'em excitement.

the first 95 minutes of the game aren't very exciting for me though. i do win one small pot with KQ but i'm mostly folding 62 and Q4. eventually though i flop top pair with AQ and end up rivering another queen to make a full house after the board paired on the turn.

suddenly i'm back in contention when i flop BIG with KdJd:

flop: Ad Qd Tx !!!!!

i get a lot of resistance from two opponents here and decide to cap the betting on the flop. worst case scenario one (or both) have KJ and i'll need my diamond. best case scenario they both have sets or two pair with some of the other player's outs. dream scenario: i hit the ten of diamonds to win the hourly $500 high hand and the card fills someone up or gives them quads for a bad beat jackpot!!!!

boring reality: the board bricks out and i drag a nice pot.

so no high hand or bbj but i'm suddenly up three digits in the game and now ahead for this overnight maryland run.

in the last orbit though i have another shot at a high hand with Qs Js. any king, eight, or non board pairing spade will at least win the pot for me but i miss completely and have to settle for a $71 win at live! and $7 total loss on the night. :sleeping:

game +71 (4/8)
year -267 (18-16)
kk 0-0 (16-22)
promo 40 (1260)
tier 14,481 (243.37 hrs; -1.10/hr)

[proximity]

just got back from a nearly fifteen hour session at horseshoe baltimore. we'll review the session with a report later but there could be trouble in paradise as my tier credits and reward credits ( both of which should've taken a huge jump) advanced at at an atlantic cityesque snail's pace. there's also a new post on 2+2 (9:00 am) where a guy says he too got a pathetic $1 an hour and only 108 tier credits for a recent six hour session. :confused:

the loss of these great comps would be a huge blow to maryland players like me, track collector, and whizz. hopefully it's just a mistake or delay? :confused:

[charm city whizz]

just got back from a nearly fifteen hour session at horseshoe baltimore. we'll review the session with a report later but there could be trouble in paradise as my tier credits and reward credits ( both of which should've taken a huge jump) advanced at at an atlantic cityesque snail's pace. there's also a new post on 2+2 (9:00 am) where a guy says he too got a pathetic $1 an hour and only 108 tier credits for a recent six hour session. :confused:

the loss of these great comps would be a huge blow to maryland players like me, track collector, and whizz. hopefully it's just a mistake or delay? :confused:

We will be hearing about the 3 of clubs falling from the sky!!!!!!! What a pot it made mt Everest look like the Great Plains!!!!

[proximity]

WELL, I CAN'T GET IN 2+2 RIGHT NOW, BUT YES HORSESHOE HAS INDEED DONE IT. THEY'VE DRASTICALLY REDUCED OUR COMPS. :mad:

and yes, i'm gonna brag a little (it's all i have left) and remind everyone that THIS CORNER was FIRST to mention that the comps were almost definitely a mistake and more importantly: NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT. loose lips sink ships and first two rules of fight club people. :faint:

MARCH 2015:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1793211&postcount=51

overall though the dealers do a solid job and horseshoe Baltimore is a great place to play!! it does annoy me though that supposedly intelligent 2+2 posters openly talk about the relatively generous comps instead of keeping their mouths shut and collecting. a smart guy like cuserounder even emails the poker director about horseshoe giving more comps than tr casinos in atlantic city.

first two rules of fight club people.....

[proximity]

top nl player cuserounder comments tonight on the comps:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50066567&postcount=2348

one thing i will say is that i don't think live's comps are as flexible as horseshoe's..... the comps i got at live! i could JUST use for food.

being a top live! employee maybe whizz can correct me and tell us about some of the other benefits at live! two plus two says it's 5+2 rake there? is that true? was/is there some kind of program where you play so many hours and live! gives you cash/chips/slot play? and then doubles it if you repeat your hours the next year? is this true? what are the details?

[charm city whizz]

top nl player cuserounder comments tonight on the comps:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50066567&postcount=2348

one thing i will say is that i don't think live's comps are as flexible as horseshoe's..... the comps i got at live! i could JUST use for food.

being a top live! employee maybe whizz can correct me and tell us about some of the other benefits at live! two plus two says it's 5+2 rake there? is that true? was/is there some kind of program where you play so many hours and live! gives you cash/chips/slot play? and then doubles it if you repeat your hours the next year? is this true? what are the details?


I'll get all the benifits of live tommorow....there are many perks to playing there, horsehoe Gonna get buried with these new rules

[proximity]

I'll get all the benifits of live tommorow....there are many perks to playing there, horsehoe Gonna get buried with these new rules

they were very generous to us and i'm sorry but there must be some punishment for these actions. can't wait for the next survey they email me. :faint:

[proximity]

top nl player cuserounder comments tonight on the comps:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50066567&postcount=2348


The whole casino was giving too many tier credits and comps, and I think casinos in other markets were complaining. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole casino was on a 3x multiplier maxing at 50 TC/hr, unbeknownst to the poker room. I'm hearing this is a casino-wide adjustment.

We all talked about it too much, but I was guilty of that initially too - it seemed like such an obvious thing that they just HAD to know, but they likely didn't, at least in poker.

this is part of what cuserounder said and if i had to guess i'd say people talking about this on the harrah's atlantic city thread at "that other site" a few weeks ago (early may) could be responsible for triggering this.

[proximity]

We will be hearing about the 3 of clubs falling from the sky!!!!!!! What a pot it made mt Everest look like the Great Plains!!!!

plans to meet the milkowski's and some other paceadvantage members at fred and margie's fizzle out and instead i spend late afternoon getting crushed in this 3/6 hold 'em contest at the shoe.

i lose with an amazing five sets in the game and i'm down three digits when we come to this big hand. it's well after dark and two neophytes who have absolutely no clue how to value hands have entered the game and are raising a lot with very weak holdings. when i finally get a playable hand (Ac 5c) i grit my teeth and jump into one of their bloated pots. i flop a backdoor flush draw and alert whizz when i turn another club.

"hey whizz, look at this hand!!"

despite another horrible horseshoe start the whole game turns on a dime when wsop bound brittney slams down the three of clubs on the river.

the pot makes friggin' mt everest look like the great plains and against all odds, puts me ahead for the game!!

just before 7:00 am i finally cash out with a $97 win but out in the casino my tier credits look low when i check them on a slot machine. my instincts tell me this could be trouble and when i wake up later that night i see that it is.

like i said there will have to be some kind of punishment for this and i doubt i'll play a single hand at horseshoe at least until i earn a gold card at maryland live! and maybe longer. on our reports i'll still track promo chips but will no longer list tier credits. also since i'm not really interested in hours and $ per hour ( and thaskalos has stopped posting) i won't list that either.

game +97 (3/6 lim)
year -170 (19-16)
kk 0-0 (16-22)
promo 95 (1355)

[Track Collector]

Looks like it is back to Charles Town for me. (The very generous comps made it worth my while to drive 154 miles r/t to the Horseshoe vs. 65 miles r/t to CT).

I'll make an occasional trip to the Horseshoe to use up my food credits.

[charm city whizz]

Thur or fri night Charlestown trip Gonna be the norm going forward

[tucker6]

it does annoy me though that supposedly intelligent 2+2 posters openly talk about the relatively generous comps instead of keeping their mouths shut and collecting.

I will probably go to my grave trying to make sense of people who do that stuff. It's a form of boasting that somehow they're smarter than everyone else, when everyone else is smart enough to keep their mouths shut.

[charm city whizz]

Horsehoe well aware of what they were giving out......all of that is written and submitted to the maryland lottery for approval saying anything or not saying anything would have made no difference....

On a side note played horses and baccarat tonight got buried friend was on 1/3 table I atually ran 100 up to 487 for a rare win

[tucker6]

Horsehoe well aware of what they were giving out......all of that is written and submitted to the maryland lottery for approval saying anything or not saying anything would have made no difference....

On a side note played horses and baccarat tonight got buried friend was on 1/3 table I atually ran 100 up to 487 for a rare win
I'm sure you're right, but it still doesn't make the chatter okay in my book.

[proximity]

Horsehoe well aware of what they were giving out......all of that is written and submitted to the maryland lottery for approval saying anything or not saying anything would have made no difference....

On a side note played horses and baccarat tonight got buried friend was on 1/3 table I atually ran 100 up to 487 for a rare win

so you went out to rocky gap to play 1-3? :rolleyes:

i doubt they told the lottery commission that people were sometimes getting $8 an hour plus (with a multiplier) to play poker? really? :confused:

[proximity]

I will probably go to my grave trying to make sense of people who do that stuff. It's a form of boasting that somehow they're smarter than everyone else, when everyone else is smart enough to keep their mouths shut.

people may disagree but i'll even go as far to say that 2+2 moderators (who supposedly play at these casinos) should have been smart enough to stop any talk about this from the beginning by deleting posts. all conversation should have been through pm.

again imo talking about it on a horseshoe thread that management clearly had no interest in is also different than talking about it on a thread dedicated to harrah's flagship casino, lol. and it's my best guess that they turned horseshoe in to caesars.

of course whatever happened doesn't really matter now. it is what it is and we'll go on to get our gold cards at live! and try to mix it up more between the casinos. variety is the spice of life! :)

[proximity]

the whole thing actually reminded me of goodfellas when jimmy conway told everyone to lay low but yet you had yahoos buying new caddys and expensive fur coats. here we had 3/6 players going on free vacations to the bahamas and stuff. i should be surprised the benefits went on as long as they did! :faint:

[charm city whizz]

Looks like it is back to Charles Town for me. (The very generous comps made it worth my while to drive 154 miles r/t to the Horseshoe vs. 65 miles r/t to CT).

I'll make an occasional trip to the Horseshoe to use up my food credits.

We will welcome you with open arms at maryland live!!!!!!! Give it a go there one time you will love it, great promotions and a better atmosphere

[proximity]

We will welcome you with open arms at maryland live!!!!!!! Give it a go there one time you will love it, great promotions and a better atmosphere

live! would be better for him in couple ways i think:

1. doesn't have to deal with 695 or 95.

2. 1-2 (instead of 1-3) without the $15 mississippi straddles.

[Rookies]

I will probably go to my grave trying to make sense of people who do that stuff. It's a form of boasting that somehow they're smarter than everyone else, when everyone else is smart enough to keep their mouths shut.

Like when the dealer pays you up & down for a BJ, but the Goober of your buddies, believes he's the only one to notice and is going to open his yap, before he receives a well placed foot stomp under the table.

[tucker6]

Like when the dealer pays you up & down for a BJ, but the Goober of your buddies, believes he's the only one to notice and is going to open his yap, before he receives a well placed foot stomp under the table.
Bingo!!

[Track Collector]

We will welcome you with open arms at maryland live!!!!!!! Give it a go there one time you will love it, great promotions and a better atmosphere

Sounds like you have an inside connection! ;)

I've been there once, but it was sometime ago. It is slightly more driving distance than the Horseshoe, but I'll give it a try.

What kind of promotions are going on?

[proximity]

gotta love "that other site" lol.

'shoe takes away 2/3 of the comps and one sperg there wants to play 15/30 mix on thursday at 2:00? :rolleyes:

very nice!! :D


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/199/poker-venues/horseshoe-baltimore-baltimore-md-faq-op-added-2014-09-09-a-1469944/index96.html

[charm city whizz]

Sounds like you have an inside connection! ;)

I've been there once, but it was sometime ago. It is slightly more driving distance than the Horseshoe, but I'll give it a try.

What kind of promotions are going on?


June promos not out yet but may had top 4 high hands of hour win a share of $2016 rare but if you were the only one go get aces full or better you would win the whole 2016, otherwise it would be split between 2 3 or 4 players

Royal flush 500, other players at table 100

2am-8am $500 high hands

[proximity]

greetings poker fans!!

we are back with another thrilling game report and this time we are coming to you from maryland live! at arundel mills mall in hanover, md where we are striving for prestigious gold card status!!

as i'm arriving for the game however i receive word that a departing paceadvantage member (who will remain nameless, lest he not sneak me into a certain state fair this year ;) ) is lost in the cavernous live! parking garage.

being the good poker ambassador that i am i race to the garage to try to help our friend find his car but security is on the case and the pair actually almost run me over with a golf cart. fortunately i dive out cart's path just in time and, after wiping most of the grease and oil off of me, settle in for some 4/8 hold 'em excitement.

it's back and forth early.

QT from the big blind flops top pair (T98) and unfortunately turns top two pair. no help on the river and we fall behind.

in another big blind however, J4 flops trips and is probably headed for a chop with J6 before a four hits the turn to give us the pot.

around this time a new player sits down to my right who is struggling with relating to the rules of the game and the dealer. the dealer doesn't really do anything abnormal but i guess it's the kid's first time playing and when the dealer lobs some chips (change) in his direction the kid tells him he's gonna kick his ass (?) or knock him out (?) or something if he ever throws chips at him again. he's arguing with the dealer almost every other hand and the whole scene reminds me of the movie grease where the coach is giving travolta try outs in all the different sports:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1waPNwf_ns

anyhow the kid doesn't stay long and the game moves on.

i'm flirting with a three digit lead and look to put the game away when i flop a straight with KJ (QT9 rainbow). however when the board runs out 9d 4d i'm beaten by both a backdoor diamond flush and a full house with 94 off suit. :faint:

very nice. :rolleyes:

around 4:30 i'm flirting again with a three digit lead when an attractive dealer named christine enters the box and i note that this girl is fast. very fast and possibly on par with our own "whizz."

with 22 i look to put the game out of reach again when christine deals a flop of T23. however when she puts another ten on the turn i'm beaten by T2 from the big blind. i lose the minimum here but it's yet another frustrating defeat as i seem to be losing with almost every set i get.

and after this loss the game continues downhill. in my final hand i raise JJ from utg but can't fold out QXs. three small cards flop but the villain hangs in and turns his queen. it's time to leave and i head out to the parking lot to see if i can find my car.

thank you for reading. :)

game +7 (4/8 lim)
year -163 (20-16)
kk 0-0 (16-22)
promo 80 (1435)

[tucker6]

The 2's over t's loss to t's over 2's would have me muttering under my breath. What a bad beat.

[charm city whizz]

2am-10am at live as good as it gets👍👍👍👍👍👍

Glad all had a good time

[proximity]

2am-10am at live as good as it gets👍👍👍👍👍👍

Glad all had a good time

when can we expect to see you back?? :)

[proximity]

our next game report finds me up early and not planning to play. but when i find myself reading a monster "other site" thread about a girl getting "motor-boated" after an episode of "poker night in america" i start to feel ashamed because..... poker players PLAY POKER. they don't sit around all weekend reading 100 page gossip threads.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/what-happened-jaclynn-moskow-poker-night-america-1591640/

so i gather myself and point my car towards maryland live! casino where i'm pursuing prestigious gold card status!!

i arrive at live! around 1:00 (pm this time :) ) and struggle to get in a game. by 1:30 i've moved from fifth to second on the list. i know who the player ahead of me is so it's surprising when i see someone else get sent to one of the games?? maybe it's a table change?? :confused: then the player ahead of me is called but never gets up from the omaha game she's in..... so the hold 'em seat should be mine.... but it just disappears and i'm still on the list and now i notice that suddenly another new name has popped up ahead of mine. WTF? :confused: :confused: :confused:

before i can even ask wtf is going on though we're all called for a new game and at 2:00 it's cards in air!!

the game doesn't go well.

by 5:00 i'm down $180 and still haven't won a hand but when a nice older lady beside me gets up to walk around i suddenly strike twice with AA in fifteen minutes!!

when my neighbor returns though i go back to losing and when she finally taps out at 7:12 she departs without seeing me drag one single pot. :faint:

after she leaves though i win the very next hand :D but my good fortune is short lived as i quickly lose with a set of sevens and by 8:00 i'm down $247 and "all in" with TT.

the dimes hold though and i stay alive. around 9:00 i look to continue my comeback with AA. i'm leading following a flop of KT8 with two diamonds but a kid hangs in with 22 and turns the longshot deuce. :faint: five minutes later i flop a full house with 22 (552) but the kid's in with K5 off.

turn: 5. :faint:

ten minutes later i have an ace high flush draw in a decent pot. an early position player turns a straight and bets and the kid raises. i'm still priced in but could face a reraise or even a cap here which makes my decision to call less clear. i end up calling (there's no reraise) and (of course) i miss my flush. at showdown the table is amazed to see that the kid raised with nothing and that the straight didn't reraise. i jokingly ask the winner if i can have the extra $8 (that the kid cost me) back but he decides to keep it. thanks kid. :bang:

it's bad enough that "the kid" is sucking out on me every other hand and bloating pots (with nothing) for other players but our table (and most of the room) is also cursed with having to listen to an obnoxious big mouth at an adjacent table who is loudly telling us his every thought.

he's (probably, lol) the best poker player in maryland and he's on par with ivey while another player at his table is "good" but more on moneymaker's level. not that that's bad though because he tells us that moneymaker is better than we think though......

"DO YOU WANNA HEAR A SECRET?" he shouts and i ask our dealer if he thinks we actually have a choice, lol. :rolleyes:

at this point i'm down over $200. two wins with AA (both over KK) get me back within $120 but other than that i can't pick up a hand down the stretch and shortly after midnight i opt to call it.

terrible day and night at maryland live! in what has so far been a frustrating 2016 tour.

thank you for reading.

game -142 (4/8)
year -305 (20-17)
kk 0-0 (16-22)
promo 0 (1435)

[tucker6]

You didn't get a bad beat payday for the boat that lost to the 4 of a kind?

[Rookies]

You didn't get a bad beat payday for the boat that lost to the 4 of a kind?

Indeed!

That was pretty bad.

[proximity]

You didn't get a bad beat payday for the boat that lost to the 4 of a kind?

no, i'll let whizz answer but i believe you need aces full of tens beaten for a mini at live! and quad jacks or better beaten for the mega jackpot?

almost always too you need to be beaten by BOTH of the other player's hole cards and in many situations involving 4 of a kind the rule is that the villain must have a pocket pair (no 3 on the board and kicker).

for the high hand there i actually don't know the specific rules so maybe whizz can fill us in on that too? at horseshoe i've seen a player win a high hand who actually LOST the hand!! :eek:

[charm city whizz]

no, i'll let whizz answer but i believe you need aces full of tens beaten for a mini at live! and quad jacks or better beaten for the mega jackpot?

almost always too you need to be beaten by BOTH of the other player's hole cards and in many situations involving 4 of a kind the rule is that the villain must have a pocket pair (no 3 on the board and kicker).

for the high hand there i actually don't know the specific rules so maybe whizz can fill us in on that too? at horseshoe i've seen a player win a high hand who actually LOST the hand!! :eek:

At live u can hit a mini bad beat using 1 from your hand but kicker has to play, and yes at live you can win a high hand even you didn't win the pot, seen it a few times, example

AAA95 board

Player A: A7
Player b: 66

Players wins hand with quad aces with a 7 but kicker don't play but player B weasels on high hand board with AAA66


Hope that helps....

And as a post script nobody here wants to hear proximity saying he isn't a good player and this and that, you can play limit as good as anybody your just not running well rite now, these things happen....lose 16 sessions in a row like me then reevaluate your game, until then go bury these horrid players everyone on here rooting for you

PPS.....

Charm city whizz 5/5 last 5 sessions.....not a brag but miracles do happen😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[proximity]

And as a post script nobody here wants to hear proximity saying he isn't a good player and this and that, you can play limit as good as anybody your just not running well rite now, these things happen....lose 16 sessions in a row like me then reevaluate your game, until then go bury these horrid players everyone on here rooting for you

PPS.....

Charm city whizz 5/5 last 5 sessions.....not a brag but miracles do happen😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

i can dance the tango and drive a ferrari better than anyone you've ever seen?

i'm no damn good charlie and i never have been!!

[Track Collector]

PPS.....

Charm city whizz 5/5 last 5 sessions.....not a brag but miracles do happen😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Glad you pretty much stayed away from our table the other night until I decided to go home.............it would have been very hazardous to my bankroll! :)

BTW I suspect you are much better than you give yourself credit for, as you are a sharp guy!! :ThmbUp:

[proximity]

greetings poker fans!!

we are back tonight with yet another exciting game report from the great state of maryland!!

it's late thursday night and downtown baltimore traffic is a little slow as the crowd is just filing out of camden yards where the hometown orioles defeated the boston redsox 12-7.

12-7? :confused: being a phillies fan i didn't even know such scores were possible!! :rolleyes:

anyhow i'm patiently sitting in the gridlock and about to turn onto greene street when the ritz cabaret shuttle pulls up beside me and one of their lovely performers (LP) leans out the passenger window.

LP: hey baby are you busy tonight??

ME: actually i am busy, you see there's this big 4/8 limit game i need to win at....

LP: you should come to the ritz!!

ME: what's the ritz?

LP: it's a gentlemen's club...

ME: ok, you talked me into it!! i'll drive over after i get my horseshoe promo chips!! save me a seat by the stage. my initials are SRU....

now as bad as things have been going i probably should have taken the night off and blown my bankroll at the ritz. being a glutton for punishment though i picked up my 'shoe promo chips and then headed off to maryland live! casino where i'm chasing prestigious gold card status!!

i arrive at live! around 11:30 and around midnight i (finally, it's been awhile)
get a visit from an old friend: KK. :cool:

my humble 16-22 w-l record with cowboys is lagging far behind dilane's 71% online win rate with the hand but tonight they hold up and we're off to a positive start.

it wouldn't last.

AJ is beaten several times and despite the win with KK i fall behind.

meanwhile game conditions are deplorable.

a chronic cougher sits beside me which wouldn't even be so bad if he'd square up with his cup holder. several players are repeatedly leaving and returning to the table and at one point we're playing four handed. three of us order drinks.... but the waitress only brings two. what am i.... a mirage? the real SRU would take out his piece and blast her in the foot!!

at 3:00 i lose with AA and fall behind three digits and the game starts getting short again but i launch a rally; actually winning with a set of 2s! :faint: :faint: :faint:

eventually at a new table i move ahead and shortly after 5:00 i leave with another mini $8 win.

thank you for reading.

game +8 (4/8)
year -267 (21-17)
kk 1-0 (17-22)
promo 90 (1525)

[proximity]

game +8 (4/8)
year -267 (21-17)
kk 1-0 (17-22)
promo 90 (1525)

should be -297 for the year.

sorry for the error. :blush:

[tucker6]

So LP was coming on to you, and you decide that winning $8 is better? Either she isn't pretty or you have messed up priorities. :D

Love the SRU initials. I expect to see more conspiracy thoughts in your postings as a result.

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back with more excitement from maryland live! casino at arundel mills mall where we are chasing prestigious gold card status!!

after taking a scenic route to get to live! i get on a short list for 4/8 limit hold em and before too long get seated in a game right beside THE most notorious slow roller in mid-atlantic (and probably worldwide) poker.

now maybe i'm just bitter because "terrence" (despite being a lousy player) is an incredibly lucky guy and i'm not? he's hit multiple bad beats (big ones) and numerous high hands while i lose to double digit long shots almost every other hand of the few i'm involved in.

going back a few years i remember terrence hitting one of the first bad beats in charles town poker history. with 55 terrence stays after a flop of three high cards. the board runs out 5-5 and terrence loses the hand but wins the jackpot which must have been 50-60k at the time. terrence then stiffs the dealers and charles town responds by upping the bbj requirements to quad 7s or better beaten, lol. sigh......

back at live! we're only twenty minutes in when terrence commits his first slow roll of the day.....or at least his first since i sat down. :rolleyes:

forty minutes later he slow rolls another guy and when the guy gets mad and leaves the game another player tries to educate terrence on the etiquette of the game but of course you can't teach an old dog new tricks. and for terrence it's way too late in the game.

in my game i notch a few wins with AJ but miss completely on several good draws. late in the contest though i turn one of the missed draws into a rare limit hold 'em bluff and it's good enough to get me another baby win at exciting maryland live! casino!!

thank you for reading.

game +11 (4/8 lim)
year -286 (22-17)
kk 0-0 (17-22)
promo 45 (1570)

[Rookies]

OMG! :lol:

What beat him? A Royal?

Sounds like this is all part of his shtick. Maybe, change your name to Mr. T & grab one of those BBJ. ;)

[charm city whizz]

Maybe proximlty still cashing out from saturday night, last 2 times I seen him in action won pots that were the size of mt Everest gets 2 pair to hold up like a magician👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[proximity]

we return to exciting maryland live! casino for a special $500 every twenty minutes high hand promotion!!

the classic poker movie rounders begins with the statement that "if you can't spot the sucker in your first thirty minutes at the table.... then you are the sucker."

fortunately in this game it doesn't take too long to spot the sucker(s) as there are several pathetic missed turn bets and free cards given.

unfortunately though it's back to business as usual for me.

with KK from the big blind i'm leading on an extremely dry flop but a donkey with no connection to the board goes runner-runner and rivers a gutshot straight.

the very next hand i flop a set of tens from the small blind (T75 r). i bet right out and face a raise from late position. i reraise and another donkey in middle position calls the two bets with 96 and turns an eight for his gutterball. unfortunately he doesn't even raise me on the turn because another nickel falls on the river to give me the winning boat and move me ahead for the game.

eventually i will have to go to horseshoe to get my promo chips but this could prove to be a problem as some players at the table inform me that there's going to be a big beyonce concert at m&t bank (ravens) stadium at 9:00. this stadium is basically right beside horseshoe and the friday traffic is bad enough without everyone rushing to russell street to see beyonce.

with AdJd i see a flop of QQdXd. king of diamonds on the turn to give me an ace high flush but mr 96 suddenly leads out. i fear the worst but with a possible $1000 bonus ($500 high hand and $500 royal bonus) i have to call and pray for the ten of diamonds on the river. but the river blanks out and mr 96 has indeed limped with KK. yet another drooler rewarded for his pathetic play. :rolleyes:

eventually i get a win with KK to get back in the game but down the stretch i miss with every small pair in the deck and head for the exit to try and beat the beyonce traffic.

game -40 (4/8 lim)
year -326 (22-18)
kk 1-1 (18-23)
promo 45 (1615)

[tucker6]

OMG! :lol:

What beat him? A Royal?

Sounds like this is all part of his shtick. Maybe, change your name to Mr. T & grab one of those BBJ. ;)
must have been a straight flush and/or royal. Nothing else could beat him.

[proximity]

must have been a straight flush and/or royal. Nothing else could beat him.

i can't remember the specifics except that he had unders; ie vintage low limit donkey call getting 6-1 while being 23-1 to improve. :rolleyes:

[proximity]

ok poker fans, we are back and after an afternoon loss at maryland live! casino we takeoff for horseshoe; fighting both friday rush hour and beyonce traffic.

100w is already gridlocked so i sneak off onto 295n and it's smooth sailing until about a half mile from the casino. when i arrive it's already $40 to park but my diamond card gets me in for free and i join a 3/6 game featuring maryland legend aunt hortense!! :cool:

:cool: at least until i raise KQ and she calls two cold and beats me with 63 off suit. :cool: until i reraise QQ to $9, another donk shoves for $11, and she calls $11 cold and wins with KJ off suit.

with T9s though i flop a double gutshot (Q86) and turn a seven! :cool:

i bet. aunt hortense raises. i reraise to $18.

river: 7.

aunt hortense: Q7 off. :faint:

down three digits i go for a walk downstairs to grab a sandwich and collect my thoughts. i'm losing (badly) to aunt hortense but there's a coffee "special" at heavy seas burger.... six dollars a cup!!!! :faint:

am i at horseshoe or penn national?? :rolleyes:

what a great gambling experience!! :rolleyes:

back upstairs the bloodbath continues as aunt hortense beats me with 72... although it was suited.

around 11:30 though i actually win with a set of dimes and we're back within $100 of even.

nine minutes later though i flop a set of nickels but lose to another gutshot straight.

i spend most of the next hour totally missing flops with good hands. finally around 12:35 i raise AK but a donkey calls two cold with 82s and turns a flush.

i grab my $6 stack and run for the exit but out in the parking garage it's complete chaos. total gridlock with cars facing every direction. back inside i grind out 75 tier credits on slots. of course i lose.

in the elevator a 300 pound beyonce fan steps on my foot.

she apologizes but i tell her that it's ok. it was actually the highlight of my day. :bang:

game -194 (3/6 lim)
year -520 (22-19)
kk 0-0 (18-23)
promo 0 (1615)

[proximity]

i arrive early at horseshoe baltimore to play my remaining promo chips on blackjack. afterwards i'm sitting in ruby 8 restaurant over a plate of general tso's. i'm running terrible in both poker and life. my nerves are about totally shot. i pray to god for both "normal" cards and for forgiveness if i'm wrong for asking. i text our friend charm city whizz to see if he's coming out for the belmont? this could be my final game.

just before 3:00 i get called for a new game and position myself just two seats to the left of aunt hortense. if this is indeed it, i'm going to give myself every advantage. naturally she draws the button and i'm stuck coming in on the big blind. everything continuing to go wrong.

i grab an early win with KK but then aunt hortense turns on her game. i flop two pair but she turns a gutshot and then she stays with bottom pair to suck out on my top pair.

eventually i grab a couple small pots though to close to within $25. the table has all the vibrancy of a mausoleum and when some of the belmont card comes on nbc sports (?) i ask our dealer "miss aesthetics" if she has anyone in the big race?

"i haven't cashed a belmont ticket since secretariat in '73...... to show," i try to joke but naturally this goes over like a lead balloon. miss aesthetics of course doesn't get the joke and another player says she wasn't even born then and that it was seattle slew in 73....... sigh.

back on the felt with KK i stack aunt hortense and take a small lead in the game until my AA gets cracked by another player's KK to put me behind $7.

after going downstairs for a kit kat though i go on a tear getting wins with AK, AQ, and lani to show in the belmont. a few hours later aunt hortense returns (on my immediate right) and when i turn a straight with QJ i take her to valuetown and move ahead over $200 for the game.

it's back to losing though for the next three hours. i'm barely hanging on to a $100 lead when charm city whizz arrives in the poker room. sans the rainbow jacket he's dressed like rodney dangerfield in caddyshack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phagxOal7_A

after having won big on the belmont (doubles, pick 4s) he's now come out for some late night harness action and is betting our dealer (who already owes whizz 3500) on whether flops will come out red or black.

under the gun i raise with AKs, and the fact that i haven't played a hand in maybe 45 minutes doesn't stop the whole table from calling.

flop: AKJ and i alert whizz to watch this pivotal hand.

for once blanks on the turn and river and we move back ahead over $200!!

an hour later i raise AQs and turn a queen following a flop of QJX.

"shooter" (see early 2016 reports) is all-in and moaning on the turn that he bets none of us have an ace and is again upset when my ace outkicks his Q2s (that he called two cold with pre) at showdown.

so now i guess we can't play AQs? shooter really needs to decide if i'm a "good" player..... or not.

it's great to finally have a winning game but deep into the night i raise with QQ and get beaten by a player who calls two cold with 74 off. KT flops two pair but loses to a player who turns a flush with suited rags. the game isn't fun anymore and i quit for the casino where i win back my beyonce losses on a double diamond machine.

i would like to dedicate today's report in memory of horseplayer and penn national fan wp. we will miss you, my friend. :(

game +230 (3/6 lim)
year -290 (23-19)
kk 2-1 (20-24)
promo 90 (1705)

[tucker6]

"i haven't cashed a belmont ticket since secretariat in '73...... to show," i try to joke but naturally this goes over like a lead balloon. miss aesthetics of course doesn't get the joke and another player says she wasn't even born then and that it was seattle slew in 73....... sigh.

You know, a girl on farmersonly.com would have laughed at your joke. You can't be talking to no city girls Prox. :D

[Rookies]

Originally Posted by proximity

"i haven't cashed a belmont ticket since secretariat in '73...... to show," i try to joke but naturally this goes over like a lead balloon. miss aesthetics of course doesn't get the joke and another player says she wasn't even born then and that it was seattle slew in 73....... sigh. "

Prox, I need to introduce you to one of my younger buddies. No, he isn't even a Clooney look alike, but this guy must have 2PHDs in 'communication' with women and knows 1,000 funny, polished lines which he gives with exuberance and charm.

I once brought him with us to the Spa, along with the rest of my cynical, hard boiled, posse. They were rolling their eyes prior to the trip, but ohhhh... they got a schooling!

During the car trip there, he already had the number if the cute waitress in Rochester. While in his room, he was talking to some GF from Florida and had hooked up with a visitor to the Casino we were staying at. (Of course, he had yet to talk with his wife. :rolleyes: )

When we got to Saratoga, I reminded him that there were a lot of fish in this sea and he didn't have to snag one in the first 15 minutes.

Took him 30 :lol: AND during the next 2-3 days he spent with her, even drawing others to our seats, like moths to the flame. That same woman would find us for the next couple of years, to enquire whether he had come again! ;)

My buddies were gob smacked.

He used to invite me yearly to St. Paddy.'s Day shenanigans in Rochester. They were all younger and I knew not only what was going to go on, but that I might not be alive by weekends' end. ;) I declined. During one trip, one of them met a woman and got laid IN the Airport terminal.

Personally, neither I nor others, understood why he ever got married. He is the mold for Mad Men.