2016 Poker Discussion Thread

[proximity]

t6,

i'm banned from farmersonly for cow tipping. :rolleyes:

rookies,

i'm not trying to hook up with players or dealers in the middle of the game or impress anyone. just trying to breathe a little life into a stale table. i failed..... again.... just like everything in my life and poker going wrong to this point in the year. that is why i added this part to the report. to show that just when i didn't think things could get worse, they do.

i toss out a little self-depreciating humor and people don't know who secretariat is? i wasn't born when babe ruth was around.... does that mean i shouldn't know who he is? it's not like i'm dilane throwing citation or whirlaway at them. it's a disney movie beach ball lobbed over the center of the plate!!

if i play tonight it's only because of the promo chips as i'm just burned out on the whole game.

[Rookies]

t6,

i'm banned from farmersonly for cow tipping. :rolleyes:

rookies,

i'm not trying to hook up with players or dealers in the middle of the game or impress anyone. just trying to breathe a little life into a stale table. i failed..... again.... just like everything in my life and poker going wrong to this point in the year. that is why i added this part to the report. to show that just when i didn't think things could get worse, they do.

i toss out a little self-depreciating humor and people don't know who secretariat is? i wasn't born when babe ruth was around.... does that mean i shouldn't know who he is? it's not like i'm dilane throwing citation or whirlaway at them. it's a disney movie beach ball lobbed over the center of the plate!!

if i play tonight it's only because of the promo chips as i'm just burned out on the whole game.

Ahhh... hang in there. There is ebb and flow in life.

I once, when my 30 something, attractive, female friends were 20 somethings, rolled out the otherworldly..."Squeal like a pig" line.

BLANKS. :rolleyes:

You know... Deliverance?

Blank 2! :lol: (they were born in the late 70s)

Amazing, the stuff people miss on, if they just have slightly different or younger lives.

[proximity]

yeah, that's what i'm talking about rookies. we broke what i call the rule of roxy roxborough: never talk to squares.

[proximity]

after a brief return to horseshoe, today's action finds us back at exciting maryland live! casino for more exciting 4/8 limit hold 'em action!!

we start quickly winning with AA and AJ in the very first two hands i'm dealt in!! with T4 from the big blind i'm trailing T9 after a flop of TT8 but a four on the turn gives me the winning boat and moves me $113 ahead only twenty minutes into the game!!

there's controversy at the table as a player tries to rebuy for less than $40 and another player just moves the button. meanwhile i'm on cruise control but run into trouble when i flop two pair with T8 from another big blind. four on the turn and i'm beaten not by J9 or QT but by a set of fours. yes, yet another terrence-esque longshot comes in against me.

about an hour in there are multiple rules violations in one hand. a player returns to the game and the FLOOR rules that he can take chips from another player's stack (ala worm and mike @ taj in rounders)!! i'd rather not play short handed so i'm fine with it, but can't believe both the dealer and floor allowed this. then another player gets dealt in on the button despite the new dealer being told and then reminded not to do this.

sure there are some great dealers there like whizz, christine, and a few others but the twoplustwo propaganda that all live! dealers are great while all 'shoe dealers are bad is far from true.

when the game continues i drop hands with AA and AK and despite the blazing start, i end up falling behind.

meanwhile late night game conditions at live! are again deplorable. three players get knocked out in a single hand and the other three know each other so instead of propping up this silly short handed game i head out for the casino.

another miserable day in the life of proximity!!

game -17 (4/8 lim)
year -307 (23-20)
kk 0-0 (20-24)
promo 45 (1750)

[proximity]

after surviving some blackjack at maryland live! i return for some more 4/8 limit hold 'em excitement after the high hands get started again.

after an early loss with AK i pull ahead with AJ but lose every hand the rest of the way. once again the game starts getting short and two players on an extended break don't look like they're coming back anytime soon. usually i wouldn't mind this but when a goofball tries to straddle my big blind in these short-handed conditions i just get up and leave. i'm about done with maryland live!.

$69 loss for the game in what was another terrible trip to maryland live!. of course when i go back to 'shoe to get my promo chips their full table (with waiting list) was running all night. :faint: fml!!

game -69 (4/8 lim)
year -376 (23-21)
kk 0-0 (20-24)
promo 45 (1795)

[proximity]

just some updated thoughts as we approach the halfway point of the 2016 season at 23-21 but down $376.

it is embarrassing to be losing to these players this deep into the year but i still believe in my own game. for now i guess i'll still keep going to maryland although that could change if horseshoe takes away my promo chips. i'd like to go to atlantic city more and even play some higher stakes limit at borgata but at -376 i am worried that a pounding at 10/20 could put me behind permanently for the year.

______'s wsop thread has inspired me to start thinking about possibly going to vegas for a change of scenery for vacation especially since maryland is just too much like work for me anymore to be considered a vacation.

it looks like i could get a good deal at bally's or flamingo and play a lot at bellagio? maybe i could aim for 10/20 at bellagio but again a big loss at such stakes could put me behind permanently for the year, so who knows?

just some updated thoughts as i continue to struggle to turn around my poker results and my life.

--proximity

[Red Knave]

thinking about possibly going to vegas for a change of scenery for vacation
it looks like i could get a good deal at bally's or flamingo and play a lot at bellagio?
Your status at Horseshoe should get you some excellent deals at any Caesar's casino hotel. Your best room deal may be at the Linq or Harrah's where it's also less expensive to eat. Neither of them have great poker rooms but Caesar's, Bellagio, Wynn, Aria are all nice rooms and easily walkable. They also run decent tournaments from $80 to $150 which might interest you too (there are less expensive tourneys around also).
And you can bet on horses and baseball too! :)

[proximity]

Your status at Horseshoe should get you some excellent deals at any Caesar's casino hotel. Your best room deal may be at the Linq or Harrah's where it's also less expensive to eat. Neither of them have great poker rooms but Caesar's, Bellagio, Wynn, Aria are all nice rooms and easily walkable. They also run decent tournaments from $80 to $150 which might interest you too (there are less expensive tourneys around also).
And you can bet on horses and baseball too! :)

thanks red knave and would love to hear more about this.

without putting in any special codes on the tr site, bally's came up lowest for me at $17 a night for nine nights......although yesterday it was $14. :mad: i was looking at bravo yesterday too and saw that flamingo was the only caesar's property that had any limit games going, which is all i've played so far this year although idk how long that streak will last.

[proximity]

after wasting all of wednesday and thursday on pipe dreams of vegas i'm up early on friday and hungry for some actual poker action. although there's another special friday "mystery" promo chip voucher (usually $45) waiting for me at horseshoe baltimore, i'm just not motivated to go and instead point my car towards...... charles town.

charles town??

sitting around thinking of vegas all the time and now going to a comp-less hollywood property? obviously i'm becoming completely unhinged. perhaps i've been the victim of one too many suckouts? maybe two too many?

anyhow after stopping for some breakfast at the chambersburg denny's i arrive early at charles town and around 11:30 cards are in the air for a new game of 3/6 limit hold 'em!!

i get some cards early on but unfortunately can't win a pot. finally with 8d3d from the big blind i flop a diamond draw but there's a problem as i get a strong feeling on the turn that another player (who has a strong resemblance to judge gene marinacci from rounders) is also drawing to diamonds and the two diamonds on the board (along with my 8 and 3) are low.

so i check a nine of diamonds on the river and cringe as judge marinacci leads out for the first time in the hand. incredibly though he has 7d5d and my crying call is good!!

later when QQ turns a set and rivers a boat i move ahead for the game and in a sparsely populated charles town room i actually get on the board for a high hand. unfortunately another player at my table passes me with aces full and i don't survive the hour but a few hours later i flop quad jacks and do make it the whole way!!

for today's high hands charles town had eight envelopes. four with $100, two with $250, and two with $500. one or two $100s and a $250 were already picked so my chances at a nice bonus were good but of course (in vintage proximity poker tour luck) i pick one of the remaining 100s but it's better than nothing and after tipping our dealer bob $10 i'm on the board with my first "bonus" money of the year!!!

unfortunately after the four jacks i go on a three hour losing streak. when AA falls to a limped QQ i'm behind $62 but thirty minutes later i start a rally with KK and eventually move back ahead.

despite the change of scenery the game itself is getting stale and i decide to quit and head outside to get some fresh air and take in the chalky end of charles town's racing card. another baby win though and a $90 bonus to finally get on the board in that category so a good day overall!!

game +14 (3/6)
year -362 (24-21)
kk 1-0 (21-24)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 90 (90)

[Track Collector]

Hey proximity!

I "enjoyed" an evening of poker after about a month of vacation (due to a temporary work opportunity) on Saturday, so I missed you by a night.

The cards were not very kind to me, but it could have been much worse. I won 2 hands over 5 hours, but only dropped $26. The table was relatively quiet with few raises, so that allowed the limping in of a few more hands than usual. (I know, limping is BAD!!). I felt like I was in a haze, and not really thinking very clearly. Maybe that is what a significant layoff will do to one. No comps, but it was nice putting 90 less miles on the vehicle.

Time to do some more work on my poker game. :)

[_______]

thanks red knave and would love to hear more about this.

without putting in any special codes on the tr site, bally's came up lowest for me at $17 a night for nine nights......although yesterday it was $14. :mad: i was looking at bravo yesterday too and saw that flamingo was the only caesar's property that had any limit games going, which is all i've played so far this year although idk how long that streak will last.

Stay at Bally's. It's a great corner. Go across the freeway to Rio. Check Bravo for WSOP, not Rio. Go to the pavilion and after your eyes finish rolling back in your head and you can get off your knees just cross yourself and head to the green section.

If you go, let me know. I'm looking for a reason to go again this year.

[proximity]

Hey proximity!

I "enjoyed" an evening of poker after about a month of vacation (due to a temporary work opportunity) on Saturday, so I missed you by a night.

The cards were not very kind to me, but it could have been much worse. I won 2 hands over 5 hours, but only dropped $26. The table was relatively quiet with few raises, so that allowed the limping in of a few more hands than usual. (I know, limping is BAD!!). I felt like I was in a haze, and not really thinking very clearly. Maybe that is what a significant layoff will do to one. No comps, but it was nice putting 90 less miles on the vehicle.

Time to do some more work on my poker game. :)

i looked for you there, but not too hard since i figured you were still in florida.

i did see rw, who asked if i'm still with nhp. :)

[proximity]

Stay at Bally's. It's a great corner. Go across the freeway to Rio. Check Bravo for WSOP, not Rio. Go to the pavilion and after your eyes finish rolling back in your head and you can get off your knees just cross yourself and head to the green section.

If you go, let me know. I'm looking for a reason to go again this year.

let's face it, i'll probably be playing 2-4 at this flamingo place the whole time. :sleeping:

right now though i'm shooting for aug 10-18/19 and will pm you and any other paceadvantage regulars the details if i end up going.

all the best flights for me seem to be with this cheap spirit airlines and i'm a little worried about them messing up the trip, although at this point i'm getting used to everything going wrong. :)

[Red Knave]

let's face it, i'll probably be playing 2-4 at this flamingo place the whole time. :sleeping:
It's a pretty dumpy room and the dealers will make Live! look good (well, you know ...) but you should do it for the experience.
You should really make a point of at least traveling to the other strip casinos or to the Rio, Orleans etc. across the hwy ( there is/was a shuttle to Orleans and Gold Coast from Bally's and there is one to Rio from Harrahs). You owe it to yourself to see a swank poker room like Bellagio, Venetian, Aria or even Caesar's.

right now though i'm shooting for aug 10-18/19 and will pm you and any other paceadvantage regulars the details if i end up going.
Bring shorts, flip flops and a tank top for walking outside and a snowmobile suit and gloves for inside. Seriously, I always had a heavy hoodie with me in every poker room. You won't always need it but it's bad form when your teeth are chattering and you're trying to bluff.

all the best flights for me seem to be with this cheap spirit airlines and i'm a little worried about them messing up the trip, although at this point i'm getting used to everything going wrong. :)
I will assume you also checked with Jet Blue and Southwest. I have used them both at different times for different routes and they work fine. I've only heard about Spirit and the owner even brags about the nickel and dimeing they do although, even after that, they are still pretty reasonable.

[_______]

let's face it, i'll probably be playing 2-4 at this flamingo place the whole time. :sleeping:

right now though i'm shooting for aug 10-18/19 and will pm you and any other paceadvantage regulars the details if i end up going.

all the best flights for me seem to be with this cheap spirit airlines and i'm a little worried about them messing up the trip, although at this point i'm getting used to everything going wrong. :)

Good luck on the trip. I will be backpacking in the Sierra's 8/12-8/17 so can't go if those are your dates but keep me in mind if it's another date.

[proximity]

It's a pretty dumpy room and the dealers will make Live! look good (well, you know ...) but you should do it for the experience.
You should really make a point of at least traveling to the other strip casinos or to the Rio, Orleans etc. across the hwy ( there is/was a shuttle to Orleans and Gold Coast from Bally's and there is one to Rio from Harrahs). You owe it to yourself to see a swank poker room like Bellagio, Venetian, Aria or even Caesar's.


Bring shorts, flip flops and a tank top for walking outside and a snowmobile suit and gloves for inside. Seriously, I always had a heavy hoodie with me in every poker room. You won't always need it but it's bad form when your teeth are chattering and you're trying to bluff.


I will assume you also checked with Jet Blue and Southwest. I have used them both at different times for different routes and they work fine. I've only heard about Spirit and the owner even brags about the nickel and dimeing they do although, even after that, they are still pretty reasonable.

don't worry i'll probably have to try to balance a compulsion to try and play at every casino with a need to relax and enjoy the trip. IF the trip goes off i'll probably end up sticking to mostly strip casinos but may try the orleans, rio, and palace station too.

so far i just googled flights from bwi and the times of the spirit flights really work for me.

some minor concerns i'm reading about:

1) taxi longhauling

2) 6/5 blackjacks

3) i have to rent my own pool chair at bally's??

[Red Knave]

some minor concerns i'm reading about:

1) taxi longhauling
I've never had this happen. Just make sure they go Swenson from the airport i.e. not 215/15.

2) 6/5 blackjacksYeah, lots of those now. There may still be some 3/2 around off the strip or downtown.

3) i have to rent my own pool chair at bally's??:) It's a resort, not a hotel. I doubt you'll be sitting out much, except maybe at night. It gets over 100 often that time of year.

[_______]

don't worry i'll probably have to try to balance a compulsion to try and play at every casino with a need to relax and enjoy the trip. IF the trip goes off i'll probably end up sticking to mostly strip casinos but may try the orleans, rio, and palace station too.

so far i just googled flights from bwi and the times of the spirit flights really work for me.

some minor concerns i'm reading about:

1) taxi longhauling

2) 6/5 blackjacks

3) i have to rent my own pool chair at bally's??

With WSOP over, there will be no reason to go to Rio. The poker room is a carbon copy of any small room on the strip.

Gold Coast across the street has a 4 deck blackjack game (they deal out less than 2 decks) that pay's 3-2. It's also the only non-smoking table in a casino geared toward the Asian customer so there is a LOT of smoking everywhere else.

All the poker rooms recommended by Red Knave are must visits. Check Bravo for limit games which might be harder to find at the low end.

[proximity]

:) It's a resort, not a hotel. I doubt you'll be sitting out much, except maybe at night. It gets over 100 often that time of year.

no disrespect meant to bally's lv. i'm sure it's very nice and they'll probably get my business if i end up going.

i'd MUCH rather be hot than cold and want to make it a priority to spend at least some time on this vacation relaxing and getting some natural sunlight. maybe just sit by the pool for an hour or so in the mornings reading drf or something??

[proximity]

All the poker rooms recommended by Red Knave are must visits. Check Bravo for limit games which might be harder to find at the low end.

i'll probably have to break out my no limit game for the trip. in the 30 months since i've been reporting on here i lose an average of $2.07 a game in no limit so it's not like i'm a horrible player or anything. my limit record (while not great) is just better.

i see this afternoon luxor didn't have a game going and monte carlo, linq, and treasure island each had only one.

[Track Collector]

I played poker consecutive nights (Friday and Saturday) for the first time in a long time, going to comp-less Charles Town for some 1/2 NL action.

Friday I played what might have been my best poker ever, not because of the end result, but because I actually had some good reads on a number of players, and used some of that information to my advantage. It didn't hurt that I had some good hands too. Net result was +$124.

Saturday was an interesting night though. The table was pretty quiet except for the constant banter by a player who reminded me of a heavier version of Law and Order's Jerry Orbach. He also had his 85 year old mother sitting behind him, who he often included in his conversation (or perhaps better termed monologue). First he ordered a massage for his mother (which I don't know if she took it), then followed up with one for himself. His play was on the loose but aggressive side, and along with some of the constant banter, one could sense a number of other players at the table just waiting to get a hand and take his money. It didn't hurt that he had a few drinks, and was trying to hit on the attractive cocktail waitress as well. Slowly but eventually his money disappeared, and away he went to get something to eat, destined not to return.

My evening started with good cards and in the first hour I won a few small hands and sprinted out to profit of about $60. The next 30 minutes saw the following happen to me twice:

Board flop has 2 of the same suit and I have the two of the same suit including the Ace.
The turn pairs the board.
The river puts trips on the board, but gives me the nut flush.
Both times my opponents had pocket pairs and I stack off about 40% of my chips. :faint:

The next 2 1/2 hours are followed by being completely card dead.

The following hour has me unsuccessful set-mining pre-flop raises 3 times.

My $300 buy-in has dwindled down to $55, and with a $5 straddle before me I go All-in with AK off-suit and get one call. No aces or kings on thru the river, but I dodge a bullet when my opponent says "King high", which results in having about $130 in chips.

A few hands later the following happens:

I limp in with J10 off-suit.
The flop comes J Q 3 rainbow.
One player leads out with $10 and I am the only caller.
Turn is J. The other player leads out with $10 and I call.
River is a J!!!
Other player checks and I bet $25
He check-raises to $50
I re-raise All-in and he calls short.
I win of course and he mucks his hand.
Knowing there is absolutely no risk to re-opening the hand, I ask to see his cards, which where KQ off-suit.

So after about 5 1/2 hours I (happily) leave down $47, knowing that I very much could have been looking at $-290. :jump:

[proximity]

I played poker consecutive nights (Friday and Saturday) for the first time in a long time, going to comp-less Charles Town for some 1/2 NL action................ :jump:

great report tc except the title needs a little work.

with the jerry orbach theme (instead of law and order) i woulda went dirty dancing and called it nobody puts track collector in a corner
!!

did you get a high hand for the jacks? or wasn't it going???

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back with more excitement; this time from the beautiful harrah's atlantic city!!

it's a smooth ride down to the shore and when i arrive it gets even better as harrah's upgrades me to a tremendous suite on the 44th floor of the waterfront tower!!

before i checkout i do notice two ashtrays by entrance so i guess the suite was "smoking" but you couldn't tell at all and this was by FAR the nicest room i've ever had in atlantic city so major thank you to harrah's ac!!

instead of jumping right into the poker action i decide to spend opening night relaxing with some blackjack. there's some wild action at the table. one high roller is betting hundreds a hand while me and his kids are betting the table minimum $15. another guy is betting $65 a hand while occasionally consulting a basic strategy chart in his pocket. with 2-2 against a nine he studies the table hard before starting to reach for the chart. i lightly tap the table a couple times to help him which elicits a little smile from our dealer. in the end, with help from a miss-pay and a $25 tip from the high roller, i grind out a $200 win which could be a big help with my spirit airlines ticket to las vegas!!!! :)

eventually the next afternoon i make my way down to the poker room and jump into a very passive 2/4 limit hold 'em contest.

i quickly lose with a set of nines and then raise AK but get beaten by a limped AA. after an hour and a half of play i've only managed a single chop and am down $52.

a few hours later i'm at minus $78 in what is turning out to be yet another horrible game in 2016. in back to back hands i lose with trip queens from the big blind and miss both straight and flush draws from the small blind to fall behind over $100.

these players are bad, but it's a different kind of bad from what i'm used to at horseshoe. they aren't going to drop a half dozen big bets an hour like some of your horseshoe donkeys but since they don't value bet without the nuts they aren't going to win much money on their good hands either.

in one hand with A8s i flop middle pair and lead the flop and turn betting. i'm leading the hand until a limped AQ rivers a queen. i check the river and she checks behind? uhh??

in another hand i raise AQ and get a call from KTo. i guess the guy never heard about dominated hands, but whatever. i flop a queen (Qxx) and take the lead. the board runs out TT and i lead out again.... and why not? i mean, what's going to beat me here?..... especially after the villain JUST CALLS on the river!!

thanks for the $4 but how do i lose a showdown there?? i'm about to explode jk simmons "whiplash" style with a "i didn't know they allowed retards to play at harrah's" but i compose myself and stay in the game.

with Q9s i'm about to see a flop from late position when suddenly the only other good player in the game (and possibly the whole casino) raises with AK.

i fold but would've turned a winning flush. sigh....

game -80 (2/4 lim)
year -442 (24-22)
kk 0-0 (21-24)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back in foggy atlantic city where we checkout of harrah's and head over to the beautiful borgata for some 3/6 hold 'em excitement!!

things don't start well in this one.

i raise AJ in the very first hand of the game and see a flop of A85 rainbow.

unfortunately the big blind hangs in with T8 off and turns a second eight and we're down $21 right off the bat.

however with my own T8 off in the big blind i flop a straight 967 and even get raised on the turn!! the straight holds up and i move ahead $29. before i can post my small blind though i'm called for another game.

and it's a game we've been waiting for. :cool:

tomorrow: high stakes in the marina!! :eek:

game +29 (3/6 lim)
year -413 (25-22)
kk 0-0 (21-24)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

[Track Collector]

did you get a high hand for the jacks? or wasn't it going???

Only the tournament had a high hand promo (using only one of your cards too).

I just got back from Pocono Downs (Mohegan Sun Casino), making the decision on Sunday to add this new harness track to my visit collection.

I held my own for a while with the locals, until booking a losing session with losses from a straight vs. a flush and a player who hit a 3rd jack on the turn after I went All-in with pocket aces after the flop. I enjoyed about half of the live 16-race card, although the rains that I was thinking might not arrive until Tuesday came. (The better weather forecast caused me to choose going to Pocono Downs over The Meadows).

One more new track to the list though. :ThmbUp:

[proximity]

alleged poker night in america "motorboater" nolan dalla on spirit airlines:

http://www.nolandalla.com/dear-spirit-airlines-f***-you/

(fill in *** with the letters and blog will show)

[proximity]

back in exciting atlantic city where i've just been called for a new game at the borgata.

it's a game we've been waiting for.

a class jump to 10/20 limit hold 'em in the "high stakes" section of borgata's room.

i buy in for $500 and thanks to a chop with AK i'm out to a $5 lead when i'm moved from our "must move" table to the main game where i immediately make a mistake by posting the big blind. i didn't know you could come in after or maybe i did know and my nerves just got the better of me? anyhow a $15 lesson, it happens.

it's another bad start as A9s flops an ace but loses to A7 (two pair). next pocket aces get cracked and suddenly i'm down $200. and after dropping another hand with 99 i'm down $300.

i flop an ace with AJ and if i lose it'll be -$400 but my kicker plays over two smaller aces and i start to rally back. both 66 and 76s turn three sixes after uncontested flops and i'm back in the game!!

a win with JJ pulls me back ahead before losses with QQ and KK put the issue in doubt once again.

down the stretch though i notch a pair of wins with AQ to move back ahead!!

finally, utg with 77 i raise and see a great flop of 654. another four on the turn and i lead out again and survive another five on the river to drag my last pot of the game. at showdown i laughed a little inside when i heard another player whisper "he raised with pocket sevens." i would like to dedicate that hand to our resident limit expert dilanesp!! :)

game +191 (10/20 lim)
year -222 (26-22)
kk 1-1 (22-25)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

[Red Knave]

That rant by Dalla is pretty good. Spirit seems to be the focus of more rants than anyone else. And you noticed what they charge for a single bag! So far Southwest still doesn't charge for 2 bags.

finally, utg with 77 i raise
Pairs are hard to get. :)

[proximity]

That rant by Dalla is pretty good. Spirit seems to be the focus of more rants than anyone else. And you noticed what they charge for a single bag! So far Southwest still doesn't charge for 2 bags.

good news! this trip is pretty much a go. i'm thinking of changing to dulles instead of bwi though and maybe going with united?

Pairs are hard to get. :)

thought we'd get more feedback about this game but i guess the forum has lost faith in me??

in general it was a good experience.

i wasn't quite used to paying time ($5 a dealer) as opposed to the usual rake but i thought i adjusted well overall. part of the adjusting was completing and defending a few more blinds than usual. there was one value bet that i chided myself for missing but overall i was easily able to identify stronger and weaker players and thought i played well.

borgata "tier matched" my caesar's diamond card by giving me one of their black cards so i hope to go there and play more 10-20 (and higher) in the future!!

[tucker6]

Holiday week prox. Time diversions limit posting.

[proximity]

unfortunately i'm just not getting enough sleep here in atlantic city so after my successful 10/20 debut i head up to the roof of borgata's parking garage to take a power nap in the back of my car. it's actually pretty relaxing but there's still work to be done inside.

first however i head downstairs to check out borgata's newly renovated cafeteria, now called the marketplace.

the marketplace seems much more alive than the old cafeteria. i grab a general tso's at the asian fusion (?). there's no broccoli with it but overall it's a pretty good deal for $8.99. on the otherside though $3.29 for a bottle of snapple raspberry in the market section seems way out of line. win some, lose some.... just like poker i guess?

upstairs in the card room i plan to wind down with some 2/4 limit action.

things don't go well.

twenty minutes in AA and AK are beaten in back to back hands. forty five minutes in i raise QJ first in from the button and lose. i raise AQ and lose.

eventually i win some small pots but two hours in i'm down $52. when the high hands end our table breaks but my luck isn't much better at the new table where i rarely see a turn. whizz would've loved these players though as they sympathized with our dealer because "high stakes" 20/40 and 40/80 players don't consistently tip quarters and redbirds. i just kept my mouth shut.

game -89 (2/4 lim)
year -311 (26-23)
kk 0-0 (22-25)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

[dilanesp]

back in exciting atlantic city where i've just been called for a new game at the borgata.

it's a game we've been waiting for.

a class jump to 10/20 limit hold 'em in the "high stakes" section of borgata's room.

i buy in for $500 and thanks to a chop with AK i'm out to a $5 lead when i'm moved from our "must move" table to the main game where i immediately make a mistake by posting the big blind. i didn't know you could come in after or maybe i did know and my nerves just got the better of me? anyhow a $15 lesson, it happens.

it's another bad start as A9s flops an ace but loses to A7 (two pair). next pocket aces get cracked and suddenly i'm down $200. and after dropping another hand with 99 i'm down $300.

i flop an ace with AJ and if i lose it'll be -$400 but my kicker plays over two smaller aces and i start to rally back. both 66 and 76s turn three sixes after uncontested flops and i'm back in the game!!

a win with JJ pulls me back ahead before losses with QQ and KK put the issue in doubt once again.

down the stretch though i notch a pair of wins with AQ to move back ahead!!

finally, utg with 77 i raise and see a great flop of 654. another four on the turn and i lead out again and survive another five on the river to drag my last pot of the game. at showdown i laughed a little inside when i heard another player whisper "he raised with pocket sevens." i would like to dedicate that hand to our resident limit expert dilanesp!! :)

game +191 (10/20 lim)
year -222 (26-22)
kk 1-1 (22-25)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

Good play. Prox, I've played 20 in the Borgata and it was literally 8 fish and me. I can't imagine you will have any problem beating 10 there long term.

[proximity]

Good play. Prox, I've played 20 in the Borgata and it was literally 8 fish and me. I can't imagine you will have any problem beating 10 there long term.

thanks. win or lose it was at least fun to be in something resembling an actual poker game for once. :)

[proximity]

after a pair of twenty plus big bet 2/4 limit drubbings in atlantic city we return home to grantville for today's low limit contest.

early on i jump out to a small lead thanks to wins with AJ and AQ but about three hours in i fall behind after a loss with 22.

twenty minutes later though, in what's become a recurring theme this week, i turn three sixes after another tepidly played flop. and when KQ turns three queens i move ahead over $50.

six compless hours later though i lose with KK and fall behind.

but AQ sees a flop of Q54 and somehow survives a run out of 3-6. the win pulls us back ahead and we hold on for a $2 profit!! :jump:

game +2 (2/4 lim)
year -309 (27-23)
kk 0-1 (22-26)
promo 0 (1795)
bonus 0 (90)

[proximity]

don't know if anyone is still following the cuserounder thread on that other site but he's currently in the wsop main event:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-amp-challenges/2014-i-aint-trying-survive-im-trying-live-no-limit-1406092/index166.html?highlight=#post50398910

down to 40k

[garyscpa]

don't know if anyone is still following the cuserounder thread on that other site but he's currently in the wsop main event:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-amp-challenges/2014-i-aint-trying-survive-im-trying-live-no-limit-1406092/index166.html?highlight=#post50398910

down to 40k

Did you buy a piece of him?

[garyscpa]

Yes, I'm all caught up in the thread but he was catching a lot of flak for his markup, not that the flak was deserved.

[proximity]

Did you buy a piece of him?

no, all my money's tied up in my own vegas trip!! :)

i'm rooting for the guy though.

(down to 30k)

[proximity]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-amp-challenges/2014-i-aint-trying-survive-im-trying-live-no-limit-1406092/index166.html?highlight=#post50398910

down to only 12k (20bb):

12,100 going in the bag. It's a ****ing miracle I survived that onslaught. I'll have 20bb coming back, so I gave myself a chance on Day 2. Pretty damn proud I fought through that with any chips left.

a lot of this describes my whole year; both on the felt and off.

and there are no guarantees that things will ever turn around.

but there is still time.

still hope to come back and win.

and that is all a gambler needs. ;)

[thaskalos]

...and that is all a gambler needs. ;)
That...and an understanding wife. :)

[proximity]

That...and an understanding wife. :)


whoa!! GREAT to see you back!!!! :cool:

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back for more mid-atlantic excitement with a trip to the great horseshoe baltimore!!

it's a horrible drive through northern maryland as a steamy rain is falling and visibility is poor. i would've beat this storm if i hadn't stopped for lunch in york, but what's done is done. eventually i get to the casino safely but a vintage 2016 start makes me wish i'd stayed for dessert.

i drop hands with AQ, AK (twice), JJ, and (of course) KK.

two and a half hours in we're down $50 but look to narrow the gap with KQ.

flop: K86

turn:6.

two donks have a six here but i river another king to drag the pot and get back in the game.

next i pick up wins with KK and QQ before dropping another one with JJ.

at a new table AA trails a flopped heart flush but another heart on the river gives me the win and moves me ahead three digits for the game!!

successful return to horseshoe baltimore!!

game +101 (3/6 lim)
year -208 (28-23)
kk 1-1 (23-27)
promo 35 (1830)
bonus 0 (90)

[proximity]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-amp-challenges/2014-i-aint-trying-survive-im-trying-live-no-limit-1406092/index168.html

aces cracked in the cuserounder thread. :bang:

down to about ten bb.

if he doesn't do it though there is still hope for the charm city that i can "represent" by taking down some 2/4 grinders at flamingo or maybe silver sevens next month!! :cool:

[proximity]

i too admit to being a little curious about the A2 big blind call for 1/3 stack on the cuserounder thread but i saw some posters did ask about this and cuse said it was an easy call so what do i know?

obviously more than most llnl players to only lose 1 bb a game over the last 30 months but i'm still behind in nl and i'm not sure vegas is the place and time to get back into it? so to keep the schedule there manageable i'm thinking of just staying with limit games on the strip? bellagio, excalibur, flamingo, monte carlo, and the mirage seem to consistently have at least one limit game going? it looks like an easy walk to silver sevens too? i guess if there's no game i could at least get a $7.77 buffet or a $3.49 breakfast?

no poker this week as i took a break to get non-gambling stuff done and work on my tan for vegas. i did get a lot of stuff done but only managed a very uneven sunburn.... but it's a start.

so far i'm at bally's but thinking maybe i should've went flamingo?

bally's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Kg6SO3qBs

flamingo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_KrId9QRE

those guys have to be paceadvantage members!! :lol:

[thaskalos]

Amazon.com offers a subscription service to their kindle users, which they call Kindle Unlimited. For $9.99 a month, the subscribers get to borrow from a list of hundreds(thousands?) of books that Amazon has pre-selected for this promotion. And...why am I telling you this here in Proximity's poker thread? Because a new poker book has surfaced which -- even though it carries a hefty price-tag -- can be borrowed and read for free as part of the Kindle Unlimited subscription program. It is, IMO, the best poker book for the non-professional player that's ever been published.

https://www.amazon.com/Grinders-Manual-Complete-Course-Online-ebook/dp/B01GBFF890/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469209032&sr=1-1&keywords=the+grinder%27s+manual

[Track Collector]

Amazon.com offers a subscription service to their kindle users, which they call Kindle Unlimited. For $9.99 a month, the subscribers get to borrow from a list of hundreds(thousands?) of books that Amazon has pre-selected for this promotion. And...why am I telling you this here in Proximity's poker thread? Because a new poker book has surfaced which -- even though it carries a hefty price-tag -- can be borrowed and read for free as part of the Kindle Unlimited subscription program. It is, IMO, the best poker book for the non-professional player that's ever been published.

https://www.amazon.com/Grinders-Manual-Complete-Course-Online-ebook/dp/B01GBFF890/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469209032&sr=1-1&keywords=the+grinder%27s+manual

How well do you feel it translates to Live full-ring poker?

[thaskalos]

How well do you feel it translates to Live full-ring poker?

What separates this book from all the others is the meticulousness with which it has been put together. The author starts with the basics, and then proceeds step by step to a detailed explanation of the more advanced aspects of the game. No-where else can a player find this much information so well presented...without the overly-mathematical jargon found in the "advanced" books that we see today. The book delves deeply into the math of the game, mind you...but the reader needn't be a mathematician to follow along.

Yes...the shorthanded online games are the book's main focus...but this book is so well written and presented, that ALL the no-limit players benefit greatly by reading it.

The book is 600 pages long without counting the appendix.

[tucker6]

What separates this book from all the others is the meticulousness with which it has been put together. The author starts with the basics, and then proceeds step by step to a detailed explanation of the more advanced aspects of the game. No-where else can a player find this much information so well presented...without the overly-mathematical jargon found in the "advanced" books that we see today. The book delves deeply into the math of the game, mind you...but the reader needn't be a mathematician to follow along.

Yes...the shorthanded online games are the book's main focus...but this book is so well written and presented, that ALL the no-limit players benefit greatly by reading it.

The book is 600 pages long without counting the appendix.
limit and no limit usefulness? Where is the emphasis? I am a no limit guy, but prox likes a net under him.

[thaskalos]

limit and no limit usefulness? Where is the emphasis? I am a no limit guy, but prox likes a net under him.

This is a no-limit book. Limit is an entirely different animal.

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back with another trip to baltimore where i pick up $45 of promo chips at horseshoe and instead of heading over to maryland live! (to continue my "grind to gold") i end up just staying and playing 3/6 limit at 'shoe.

after a bit of a slow start i flop a set of sevens and end up filling up when the board runs out jj.

i build about a $70 lead and look to extend it when i flop top pair with KJ.

but a straight comes on the river and my lead falls to about $40.

a loss with jj drops me down to +$12 and after flopping aces with AJ and ATs i'm outkicked by AQ and AK and fall behind.

some rare limit bluffs keep me in range of profitability when we come to a KQ hand in middle position.

this is a "category 4" hand in my "system" but i will frequently raise with it in these circumstances.... although i don't raise here and end up beaten by a new player on my left with T9.

as the game goes on for some reason i get a feeling that i could've raised my neighbor off the T9 hand and i'm silently cursing myself when (in similar position) i'm dealt AJ.

i raise and my neighbor thinks about it and makes the call.

i bet a flop of JT8 rainbow and my neighbor raises.

his preflop hesitation had me thinking heavily towards AQ or 99 at this point and i call the raise but come out betting when another dime falls on the turn.

he calls and another eight comes on the river.

i hesitate and decide to check this card. the villain bets and wins the hand with T4s. (yes ten-four)

the good news is i probably saved $3 earlier because he's calling with T9.

the bad news is i lost.... again.

game -85 (3/6 lim)
year -293 (28-24)
kk 0-0
promo 45 (1875)
bonus 0 (90)

[tucker6]

did you go to Vegas?

[proximity]

did you go to Vegas?

me?

i'm going august 10-18 if i still have a bankroll. :bang:

[dilanesp]

ok poker fans we are back with another trip to baltimore where i pick up $45 of promo chips at horseshoe and instead of heading over to maryland live! (to continue my "grind to gold") i end up just staying and playing 3/6 limit at 'shoe.

after a bit of a slow start i flop a set of sevens and end up filling up when the board runs out jj.

i build about a $70 lead and look to extend it when i flop top pair with KJ.

but a straight comes on the river and my lead falls to about $40.

a loss with jj drops me down to +$12 and after flopping aces with AJ and ATs i'm outkicked by AQ and AK and fall behind.

some rare limit bluffs keep me in range of profitability when we come to a KQ hand in middle position.

this is a "category 4" hand in my "system" but i will frequently raise with it in these circumstances.... although i don't raise here and end up beaten by a new player on my left with T9.

as the game goes on for some reason i get a feeling that i could've raised my neighbor off the T9 hand and i'm silently cursing myself when (in similar position) i'm dealt AJ.

i raise and my neighbor thinks about it and makes the call.

i bet a flop of JT8 rainbow and my neighbor raises.

his preflop hesitation had me thinking heavily towards AQ or 99 at this point and i call the raise but come out betting when another dime falls on the turn.

he calls and another eight comes on the river.

i hesitate and decide to check this card. the villain bets and wins the hand with T4s. (yes ten-four)

the good news is i probably saved $3 earlier because he's calling with T9.

the bad news is i lost.... again.

game -85 (3/6 lim)
year -293 (28-24)
kk 0-0
promo 45 (1875)
bonus 0 (90)

KQ in an unraised pot is a raise from any position. It's one of the easiest hands to play multiway and it almost always has its fair share of equity.

[proximity]

KQ in an unraised pot is a raise from any position. It's one of the easiest hands to play multiway and it almost always has its fair share of equity.

i'll start raising it all the time on your say so. (seriously)

ironically i'm reading a book middle limit holdem poker by ciaffone and brier and just "missed" my first question (#3) on page 41 (if you have this book) i said "raise" on (what's usually considered a similar hand) AJ but ciaffone and brier said "call."

what's your take on this???

[thaskalos]

KQ in an unraised pot is a raise from any position. It's one of the easiest hands to play multiway and it almost always has its fair share of equity.
KQ isn't a premium holding...and it plays better in a multi-way pot. So...why raise with it UTG?

[proximity]

our next report finds me up early to grab some more promo chips at horseshoe before making the relaxing drive over to charles town to play in their 3/6 limit game.

it's a good start for once as i actually win the very first two hands of the game!!

about an hour in i flop a set of queens and hold off the draws to move ahead $76 but when i take a short break to get a sandwich i see the sad news on tv that harrisburg native dennis green has died.

back on the felt i raise AKs but a donkey calls two cold with J5s and hits a jack.

i think "these charles town donkeys are (still) who i thought they were!!" and console myself that at least i raised preflop and didn't "let them off the hook."

as my bankroll continues to go south a new player named jon enters the game. if jon isn't the best small stakes limit player on the circuit, he's right up near the top.

"you lost the minimum," jon says after i drop yet another hand.

"the problem is i'm losing the minimum every other hand," i reply.

whenever i play jon we usually end up talking about the hockey movie youngblood and today is no exception. we're quoting the movie back and forth and (quoting dean's big brother kelly) i blurt out "remember you're just another wetback crossing the border to play their game."

of course as things continue to go wrong in 2016, this ends up offending a charles town regular named mindy who says she is canadian and worked hard to become a u.s. citizen and........ sigh.

since mindy's in one of her final charles town games before moving to the west coast, there's no use explaining that it was actually the american (youngblood) who was the "wetback" crossing the border to play the canadian game (hockey)..... let alone that it's a quote from the friggin' movie. sigh.

overall though i always thought mindy was one of the better players at charles town and was kind of sad to hear she's leaving. about twenty minutes later though when she limps under the gun with T6s (wtf?), flops a flush draw that misses, but hits running sixes to crack my JJ...... maybe i'm not that sad to see her go afterall? :rolleyes:

the loss to mindy's T6s leaves me ahead just a handful of chips and by the time i take another short break to get a racing program i've fallen behind. :bang:

meanwhile jon, who basically plays the same range as i do, is CRUSHING the table. another good player has entered the game across from me but three HORRIBLE players are basically giving him their chips. finally one of the guy's wakes up with AA but jon flops a set of queens!! it's been a horrible season for me but just ONE good game like that could turn the whole year around so it's good to see that it's possible.

i've already dropped jj to canadian native cindy but there's still plenty of time to win back my losses against two mexican backstretch workers..... provided i can get a hand before they lose their net worths to jon.

following a flop of KJX, my K8 (bb) is leading felipe who has limped with J2. another jack on the turn though and i'm beaten but with KQ i still have hope against pedro's KT that has no connection to the board following a queen high flop.

pedro's not going anywhere though and when the board runs out A-J i've had about enough of being a poker pinata. fortunately the game breaks and i can head out to a relaxing evening of live racing.

thanks for reading. :)

game -105 (3/6 lim)
year -398 (28-25)
kk 0-0 (23-27)
promo 35 (1910)
bonus 0 (90)

[dilanesp]

i'll start raising it all the time on your say so. (seriously)

ironically i'm reading a book middle limit holdem poker by ciaffone and brier and just "missed" my first question (#3) on page 41 (if you have this book) i said "raise" on (what's usually considered a similar hand) AJ but ciaffone and brier said "call."

what's your take on this???

I always raise AJ, and always 3-bet it except against really tight raisers.

[dilanesp]

KQ isn't a premium holding...and it plays better in a multi-way pot. So...why raise with it UTG?

Because both of your premise statements are wrong, and because you basically should not open limp anything in limit and should not fold a hand that usually has an equity advantage. And once we eliminate limping or calling, we have 1 remaining option. :)

[thaskalos]

Because both of your premise statements are wrong, and because you basically should not open limp anything in limit and should not fold a hand that usually has an equity advantage. And once we eliminate limping or calling, we have 1 remaining option. :)

I didn't imply to open-limp; I would fold KQ under the gun in a full game. And, when you say that "both my premise statements are wrong"...are you suggesting that KQ is the premium sort of hand for the UTG to be open-raising with? And if so...WHY?

[dilanesp]

I didn't imply to open-limp; I would fold KQ under the gun in a full game. And, when you say that "both my premise statements are wrong"...are you suggesting that KQ is the premium sort of hand for the UTG to be open-raising with? And if so...WHY?

KQ is easy to play out of position and with initiative multiway. If you hit a king or queen you bet.

The probability of anyone having AQ or AK, even 10 handed, is very low. So your reverse implied odds (the reason you fold something like A8 off in early position) are very low.

And KQ is a big equity leader against 9 random hands. Which makes it a premium hand.

This is pretty basic- top pair good kicker wins a lot in holdem, and you want to make big pots with hands that can make TPGK. You do that by raising pre-flop.

[proximity]

I always raise AJ, and always 3-bet it except against really tight raisers.

here's one where you 3 bet KJ...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36499759&postcount=13

and btw you were treated VERY unfairly in the thread. your section 1 part f was one of the best posts EVER on that site which as charm city whizz told us before.... is filled with liars.

[thaskalos]

KQ is easy to play out of position and with initiative multiway. If you hit a king or queen you bet.

The probability of anyone having AQ or AK, even 10 handed, is very low. So your reverse implied odds (the reason you fold something like A8 off in early position) are very low.

And KQ is a big equity leader against 9 random hands. Which makes it a premium hand.

This is pretty basic- top pair good kicker wins a lot in holdem, and you want to make big pots with hands that can make TPGK. You do that by raising pre-flop.

What do you do when you open-raise with KQ out of position...and you DON'T hit a king or a queen? The odds say you won't.

[proximity]

did you go to Vegas?

i checked bravo around 4:15 vegas time today and sans wsop the town looked really dead.

zero games at excalibur and luxor? i think only like nine games at aria??

seventeen games at bellagio with only a 4/8 and two 20/40s in limit hold 'em and an 80/160 mix? no wonder roy cooke went to 2/5!! :D

there were at least some small stakes games at flamingo, mirage, and monte carlo.

i'm still excited for the trip though!!

[proximity]

What do you do when you open-raise with KQ out of position...and you DON'T hit a king or a queen? The odds say you won't.

i'm sure it depends on the texture of the flop and the size and makeup of the remaining field but i'm sure he c-bets it more than we do. he's a notoriously aggressive player as shown in the KJ 3-bet example i posted above. :)

[dilanesp]

What do you do when you open-raise with KQ out of position...and you DON'T hit a king or a queen? The odds say you won't.

The same thing you do with AK when it misses.

[thaskalos]

i'm sure it depends on the texture of the flop and the size and makeup of the remaining field but i'm sure he c-bets it more than we do. he's a notoriously aggressive player as shown in the KJ 3-bet example i posted above. :)

To be honest...I don't take Dilanesp seriously when it comes to poker. I used to...until I read his assertion that no-limit holdem is essentially a pre-flop game. That was about as ludicrous a comment as I've ever heard.

[thaskalos]

The same thing you do with AK when it misses.

You are right. The two hands are almost identical. :rolleyes:

[proximity]

To be honest...I don't take Dilanesp seriously when it comes to poker. I used to...until I read his assertion that no-limit holdem is essentially a pre-flop game. That was about as ludicrous a comment as I've ever heard.

i enjoy most of his limit posts but am not too familiar with his no limit theories.

possibly much of his nl experience is in short buy in games at commerce (?) as opposed to the deeper stacked nl games we're more familiar with? idk? :confused:

[proximity]

in some ways in an overcard situation i'd rather hit the turn with KQ than AK/AQ but i'm sure that's not a foreign concept to anyone here....

[dilanesp]

i enjoy most of his limit posts but am not too familiar with his no limit theories.

possibly much of his nl experience is in short buy in games at commerce (?) as opposed to the deeper stacked nl games we're more familiar with? idk? :confused:

After my no limit posts and Thas' criticism I talked to a couple of the no limit pros I know- they basically said that one of the biggest leaks of fish they play against is playing too loose pre-flop- that it essentially puts you into extremely difficult hand reading situations post-flop which is fine if you are Tom Dwan and a sick hand reader but not if you are not. In other words, they agree with me that for most players, preflop mistakes are tremendously important. Which is all I said.

I don't want to get into a big flame war here but lets just say I have a similar opinion of thas' poker knowledge as he does of mine. Specifically I don't think he understands the math. :)

[dilanesp]

You are right. The two hands are almost identical. :rolleyes:

Two hands don't have to be identical for the correct play to be the same. I mean, balance, unexploitability, all that math stuff. :)

[thaskalos]

After my no limit posts and Thas' criticism I talked to a couple of the no limit pros I know- they basically said that one of the biggest leaks of fish they play against is playing too loose pre-flop- that it essentially puts you into extremely difficult hand reading situations post-flop which is fine if you are Tom Dwan and a sick hand reader but not if you are not. In other words, they agree with me that for most players, preflop mistakes are tremendously important. Which is all I said.

I don't want to get into a big flame war here but lets just say I have a similar opinion of thas' poker knowledge as he does of mine. Specifically I don't think he understands the math. :)
It's a good thing you have your law degree to fall back on... :)

[proximity]

I don't want to get into a big flame war here......

that's good. obviously this year's thread isn't as good as past threads here and i have to take a lot of responsibility for that. maybe it'll get better when i go to vegas, but i can't promise anything because it isn't just poker but a (much) needed vacation for me.

in the meantime thaskalos didn't post for awhile and there was an obvious void with his absence so i'm thankful he's back. as winning gamblers in multiple disciplines i'm sure you guys probably have a lot more similarities than differences irl but even winners can have different ways of doing things, so....

[Donttellmeshowme]

Stupid or not?


Playing in a $500 buy in tourney. Start with 15K in chips. Slow played QQ and AK and got beat on the river. My fault for slow playing. Heres the scenario.


4 hrs in and im down to 7K in chips. Im looking to shove with any Ace or pocket pair. Antes and blinds in the pot is like $1300. Guy raises to $1500 and has 2 callers and action is on me. Im like damn theres almost 6K in the pot maybe its time to shove, I pick up Q-10 offsuit. Im like its not the best hand to shove with especially with 3 people already in the hand for $1500 each. But im thinking if i go all in and get one caller im probably a 2/1 dog but im thinking Q-10 is 2 live cards. No? yes? So i shove all in . First guy thinks and thinks and thinks and after awhile he calls. Next 2 guys fold and its just me and him. He flips over A-K. King hits on the flop and i still dont have a straight draw after that and turn and river dont help me. Bad time to shove?

[thaskalos]

that's good. obviously this year's thread isn't as good as past threads here and i have to take a lot of responsibility for that. maybe it'll get better when i go to vegas, but i can't promise anything because it isn't just poker but a (much) needed vacation for me.

in the meantime thaskalos didn't post for awhile and there was an obvious void with his absence so i'm thankful he's back. as winning gamblers in multiple disciplines i'm sure you guys probably have a lot more similarities than differences irl but even winners can have different ways of doing things, so....

God forbid. :)

[dilanesp]

God forbid. :)

I'm a decent handicapper but no winner.

But I'm a pretty successful poker player. And while I don't really enjoy no limit, i did pretty well in 5-5 $500 games (ie, not shallow stack shove-fests) when i did play it.

My general thinking about the poker world is that most players lose because they don't care about math in its various forms, while some of the folks who talk about poker online are great at the math but overly dismissive of discipline issues, which are what destroy a lot of good players.

Meanwhile there are a small number of us who do care about math, do care about discipline, and don't make a lot of pre-flop mistakes. We take most of the money out of the games that doesn't go down the rake hole.

Finally there are a small number of superstars who care about the math, have the discipline, and are so brilliant at putting their opponents on accurate ranges that they can play a preflop strategy that would kill the rest of us. Those are the no limit superstars.

[proximity]

Stupid or not?


Playing in a $500 buy in tourney. Start with 15K in chips. Slow played QQ and AK and got beat on the river. My fault for slow playing. Heres the scenario.


4 hrs in and im down to 7K in chips. Im looking to shove with any Ace or pocket pair. Antes and blinds in the pot is like $1300. Guy raises to $1500 and has 2 callers and action is on me. Im like damn theres almost 6K in the pot maybe its time to shove, I pick up Q-10 offsuit. Im like its not the best hand to shove with especially with 3 people already in the hand for $1500 each. But im thinking if i go all in and get one caller im probably a 2/1 dog but im thinking Q-10 is 2 live cards. No? yes? So i shove all in . First guy thinks and thinks and thinks and after awhile he calls. Next 2 guys fold and its just me and him. He flips over A-K. King hits on the flop and i still dont have a straight draw after that and turn and river dont help me. Bad time to shove?

i quit tournaments while i was ahead (which was just luck) so if you routinely play them, you probably know better than me. it seems we're mostly cash players here but maybe manu918 will see your post and comment (although outside of golf "sweats" he's been pretty quiet here lately) as seems to play in some of the tougher tournaments at parx and borgata and also knows some top players.

in cash i think jt and qt are the most overrated hands but obviously your situation was different with the blinds rising and your stack shrinking......

[thaskalos]

I'm a decent handicapper but no winner.

But I'm a pretty successful poker player. And while I don't really enjoy no limit, i did pretty well in 5-5 $500 games (ie, not shallow stack shove-fests) when i did play it.

My general thinking about the poker world is that most players lose because they don't care about math in its various forms, while some of the folks who talk about poker online are great at the math but overly dismissive of discipline issues, which are what destroy a lot of good players.

Meanwhile there are a small number of us who do care about math, do care about discipline, and don't make a lot of pre-flop mistakes. We take most of the money out of the games that doesn't go down the rake hole.

Finally there are a small number of superstars who care about the math, have the discipline, and are so brilliant at putting their opponents on accurate ranges that they can play a preflop strategy that would kill the rest of us. Those are the no limit superstars.

Here is what I think:

MOST of the poker players realize that both the math AND the discipline are prerequisites for success in this game...but realizing something isn't the same as actually putting it into practice. To be successful...it isn't enough to "know" what to do. You have to actually DO it. I may not be the best poker "theorist", but I am unflappable at the poker table...and that in itself puts me in the small minority among poker players.

IMO...what defeats the vast majority of the "sound" players is that, although they win when they play their "A" game...they have a "B", a "C", and a "D" game as well. I play my "A" game all the time...and I hazard to guess that, if your friends and you ever cross my path at the poker table...you aren't likely to walk away with any of my money. :)

[thaskalos]

Stupid or not?


Playing in a $500 buy in tourney. Start with 15K in chips. Slow played QQ and AK and got beat on the river. My fault for slow playing. Heres the scenario.


4 hrs in and im down to 7K in chips. Im looking to shove with any Ace or pocket pair. Antes and blinds in the pot is like $1300. Guy raises to $1500 and has 2 callers and action is on me. Im like damn theres almost 6K in the pot maybe its time to shove, I pick up Q-10 offsuit. Im like its not the best hand to shove with especially with 3 people already in the hand for $1500 each. But im thinking if i go all in and get one caller im probably a 2/1 dog but im thinking Q-10 is 2 live cards. No? yes? So i shove all in . First guy thinks and thinks and thinks and after awhile he calls. Next 2 guys fold and its just me and him. He flips over A-K. King hits on the flop and i still dont have a straight draw after that and turn and river dont help me. Bad time to shove?

Yes...it wasn't a good time to shove. But your earlier blunders with AK and QQ sealed your fate...and left you way short-stacked and with few future options. With an early raiser and two callers in front of you, Q-10o was in bad shape...but your situation would have been just as bad if you held the Ax that you were looking for.

You made bad mistakes with the two premium hands...and you paid for them.

[dilanesp]

Here is what I think:

MOST of the poker players realize that both the math AND the discipline are prerequisites for success in this game...but realizing something isn't the same as actually putting it into practice. To be successful...it isn't enough to "know" what to do. You have to actually DO it. I may not me the best poker "theorist", but I am unflappable at the poker table...and that in itself puts me in the small minority among poker players.

IMO...what defeats the vast majority of the "sound" players is that, although they win when they play their "A" game...they have a "B", a "C", and a "D" game as well. I play my "A" game all the time...and I hazard to guess that, if your friends and you ever cross my path at the poker table...you aren't likely to walk away with any of my money. :)

Well on any given night players can even walk away with Phil Ivey's money. That's why fish play poker.

But you are correct about discipline. It fells the players that should know better.

[thaskalos]

Well on any given night players can even walk away with Phil Ivey's money. That's why fish play poker.

But you are correct about discipline. It fells the players that should know better.

I was kidding about not respecting your poker knowledge, by the way. As it turns out, I have a friend who actually knows you...and he has told me some good things about you.

I still think you should stay away from no limit though... :)

[thaskalos]

Well on any given night players can even walk away with Phil Ivey's money. That's why fish play poker.



I know. That's why I said "not likely" instead of "never".

[Donttellmeshowme]

Yes...it wasn't a good time to shove. But your earlier blunders with AK and QQ sealed your fate...and left you way short-stacked and with few future options. With an early raiser and two callers in front of you, Q-10o was in bad shape...but your situation would have been just as bad if you held the Ax that you were looking for.

You made bad mistakes with the two premium hands...and you paid for them.



Yea i could of waited for a better hand to shove all in but when they were 3 guys who were in for $1500 each my mind was like wait a minute heres a chance to get back in maybe double or triple up.

On my earlier hand i had AK and flopped two pair. The flop came A-K-and rag all rainbow. me and other guy are heads up. I check he bets i call. i thought about raising but said i want to get more money out of him and dont want to scare him off so i just called his bet. keep in mind theres no flush draw on the board after the flop. Turn comes and its a rag spade. i make a nice bet cant remember and he calls. River comes and its another spade. Long story short he hits runner runner for his flush. He hits the flush he showed K-9 of spades which meant going to the river he had a pair of Kings and a flush draw. After that happened i said im not slow playing anything no more. Could i of done something different in that hand?

[tucker6]

The goal of every hand is to win it, not necessarily to maximize the return each hand. Yeah, it's nice to squeeze a few more bucks from the table, but often times the risk of continued play is greater than the reward. Take the pot down if you have the chance.


As for your last hand, you were still playing your past mistakes in your mind and trying to play catch up rather than play the hand in front of you.

[thaskalos]

Yea i could of waited for a better hand to shove all in but when they were 3 guys who were in for $1500 each my mind was like wait a minute heres a chance to get back in maybe double or triple up.

On my earlier hand i had AK and flopped two pair. The flop came A-K-and rag all rainbow. me and other guy are heads up. I check he bets i call. i thought about raising but said i want to get more money out of him and dont want to scare him off so i just called his bet. keep in mind theres no flush draw on the board after the flop. Turn comes and its a rag spade. i make a nice bet cant remember and he calls. River comes and its another spade. Long story short he hits runner runner for his flush. He hits the flush he showed K-9 of spades which meant going to the river he had a pair of Kings and a flush draw. After that happened i said im not slow playing anything no more. Could i of done something different in that hand?

Did you raise pre-flop with the A-K as I assume you did? And if you did...then you should have led out with a 3/4 pot bet on the A-K flop. Checking an A-K flop after raising pre-flop is a mistake, IMO...because this is exactly the sort of flop that you should be betting. A smart opponent will just check right behind you there if you check...and take the free card on the turn. When you led out as the rag hit on the turn...how big a bet did you make relative to the pot? Did you make the sort of bet which might have discouraged him from trying to hit his flush on the river...or were you still milking him for more money?

Also...what was your reasoning for slow-playing pocket queens?

[Donttellmeshowme]

Did you raise pre-flop with the A-K as I assume you did? And if you did...then you should have led out with a 3/4 pot bet on the A-K flop. Checking an A-K flop after raising pre-flop is a mistake, IMO...because this is exactly the sort of flop that you should be betting. A smart opponent will just check right behind you there if you check...and take the free card on the turn. When you led out as the rag hit on the turn...how big a bet did you make relative to the pot? Did you make the sort of bet which might have discouraged him from trying to hit his flush on the river...or were you still milking him for more money?

Also...what was your reasoning for slow-playing pocket queens?



Dont think i raised pre flop. Usually when i raise pre flop i always continuation bet if action is on me most of the time. Cant remember the bet on the turn but i think it was a good sized bet. After the turn he wasnt going anywhere i dont think he had flush draw with a pair of Kings. I should of raised him after the flop was my mistake but i was trying to milk him for more money because there was no flush draw on the board after the flop.

On the QQ i cant remember the hand just know i slow played it and got beat out on the river.

[thaskalos]

Dont think i raised pre flop.

Then you probably didn't raise preflop with the pocket queens either. When you limp in with hands like this in a tournament setting...then you are looking for trouble. And you found it.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Then you probably didn't raise preflop with the pocket queens either. When you limp in with hands like this in a tournament setting...then you are looking for trouble. And you found it.



yep and after i lost those 2 hands i said no more slow playing

[thaskalos]

yep and after i lost those 2 hands i said no more slow playing

Yes, but by then you got way short-stacked...and you got desperate. And the Q-10o looked a lot stronger to you than it really was.

[dilanesp]

The goal of every hand is to win it, not necessarily to maximize the return each hand. Yeah, it's nice to squeeze a few more bucks from the table, but often times the risk of continued play is greater than the reward. Take the pot down if you have the chance.


As for your last hand, you were still playing your past mistakes in your mind and trying to play catch up rather than play the hand in front of you.

Well in cash games the goal is to make the best EV play. Which sometimes means either losing or risking a loss. Fish actually win more pots than winning players.

But in tournaments, the goal is to stay alive, which is somewhat different.

[dilanesp]

I was kidding about not respecting your poker knowledge, by the way. As it turns out, I have a friend who actually knows you...and he has told me some good things about you.

I still think you should stay away from no limit though... :)

I do. I tried it out for about a year. My absolute winrate in 5/5 $500 no limit was actually very similar to what i do in an 8/16 limit gane, but i hated it. No limit is boring and full of Hollywooding and time wasting.

I wonder, based on what other people post in other fora, if $500nl in California plays like $200nl elsewhere. Because it was really full of bad players and I do not consider myself any sort of no limit strategist at all.

[tucker6]

Well in cash games the goal is to make the best EV play. Which sometimes means either losing or risking a loss.
Yes, but that isn't what happened here. By not risking enough of his stack pre and post flop, he invited the risk that eventually cost him both hands. He didn't make the best EV play. My poorly worded comment to him was meant to convey that one should not slow play hands most of the time because of the value proposition. As you are fond of saying, it's all in the math. Although there is more to it than math.

[dilanesp]

Yes, but that isn't what happened here. By not risking enough of his stack pre and post flop, he invited the risk that eventually cost him both hands. He didn't make the best EV play. My poorly worded comment to him was meant to convey that one should not slow play hands most of the time because of the value proposition. As you are fond of saying, it's all in the math. Although there is more to it than math.

Well in a cash game you only exploitatively slow play when the EV against your opponent's range on a later street exceeds the EV against her range on this street.

A GTO player in a cash game may also slowplay to balance his checking / calling range.

I don't know about tournaments though. Seems to me it is a lot more costly to lose a hand, which should point towards less slow play.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Well in a cash game you only exploitatively slow play when the EV against your opponent's range on a later street exceeds the EV against her range on this street.

A GTO player in a cash game may also slowplay to balance his checking / calling range.

I don't know about tournaments though. Seems to me it is a lot more costly to lose a hand, which should point towards less slow play.



EV?

GTO?

[dilanesp]

EV?

GTO?

EV is expected value. The expected value is the amount of money that you would average winning or losing if you made the play over and over again against the various hands in your opponent's range. In other words, over the long term, will this play make you money?

In a cash game, your goal is to make +EV plays, i.e., plays that will make you money, on average, over the long term.

So if you are trying to exploit your opponents through slow play, when should you do it? Well, you should do it in a situation where you make more money, in the long run, delaying your bet or raise than you do if you just bet or raise now.

GTO is "game theory optimal" play. That is a style of playing poker that, in theory, makes it impossible for your opponents to exploit your mistakes. It is the style you want to approach when playing against better players. Essentially, you want a "balanced" range with respect to your actions so they can't read your hands. So a GTO player might slowplay a hand for a different reason than the player attempting to exploit his opponents would. The GTO slowplays so that when he checks or calls, his opponent does not know whether he is checking or calling with a weak hand or checking and calling with a strong hand. That is called "balance".

The thing is, balance is only really important against strong observant opponents who can read your hands. Against most opponents, it's much more important to bet your strong hands for value (because they call too much) than it is to balance your range. So against most opponents in cash games, you shouldn't slowplay very much because in the long run, you miss value by doing it.

As I noted above, though, in tournaments, you have a different object-- to stay alive, not to maximize your return on any particular hand. Which probably suggests even less slowplay still, because it's such a catastrophic result to lose a big pot where you let someone get there.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Played in another small tourney this weekend and lost a huge hand when i got rivered with a Queen to cripple my stack. Has 3-3 he had K-Q thought it would hold up but it didnt. Kind of like playing in these small tourneys.

[proximity]

Played in another small tourney this weekend and lost a huge hand when i got rivered with a Queen to cripple my stack. Has 3-3 he had K-Q thought it would hold up but it didnt. Kind of like playing in these small tourneys.

sounds like you had a good read on him at least?

did he have other outs or just the overs?????

[Donttellmeshowme]

sounds like you had a good read on him at least?

did he have other outs or just the overs?????



Just the overs. Flop came Ace-low card-low card he had no draws straight or flush. Yea ive played with him before i put him on Ace with any card figured it was a flip.

[proximity]

Just the overs. Flop came Ace-low card-low card he had no draws straight or flush. Yea ive played with him before i put him on Ace with any card figured it was a flip.

suffered an unplanned setback of my own tonight.

i was "driving knish's truck" (sins of the past) and planned to just go home to bed when i got a call from a friend and his wife that they're going out to the racino. wells....

now i have to be careful there because word is your trainer buddy is going to attack me because posts here from a guy named shemp howard are allegedly hurting his business (but 35%-40% rival trainers had no influence, lol) but since i'm such a compulsive gambler i decided to "risk" it anyway. :rolleyes:

so i settle in for some $15 blackjack in the "party pit."

now being "mr basic strategy" i'm not going to win long term, although in a year where, ironically i'm getting drubbed in poker, i've won at blackjack i think about every single time i've played.

wells needless to say when the dealer gets eleven blackjacks before you get one, defeat is pretty much imminent.

finally, down to $32.50, i push out another $15 and double a nine against the dealers six. of course i get a three, which is pretty much par for the night.

two new players to my left have 13 and 14 and a high roller at third base has a 12.

now the high roller stands but....

13 HITS.... and busts with a ten. :bang:

14 HITS ....and busts with another ten. :bang: :bang:

wells, you KNOW what the dealer did and i fling my sweatshirt halfway across the casino and storm to the cage to cash my pink chip.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! :mad:

[tucker6]

suffered an unplanned setback of my own tonight.

i was "driving knish's truck" (sins of the past) and planned to just go home to bed when i got a call from a friend and his wife that they're going out to the racino. wells....

now i have to be careful there because word is your trainer buddy is going to attack me because posts here from a guy named shemp howard are allegedly hurting his business (but 35%-40% rival trainers had no influence, lol) but since i'm such a compulsive gambler i decided to "risk" it anyway. :rolleyes:

so i settle in for some $15 blackjack in the "party pit."

now being "mr basic strategy" i'm not going to win long term, although in a year where, ironically i'm getting drubbed in poker, i've won at blackjack i think about every single time i've played.

wells needless to say when the dealer gets eleven blackjacks before you get one, defeat is pretty much imminent.

finally, down to $32.50, i push out another $15 and double a nine against the dealers six. of course i get a three, which is pretty much par for the night.

two new players to my left have 13 and 14 and a high roller at third base has a 12.

now the high roller stands but....

13 HITS.... and busts with a ten. :bang:

14 HITS ....and busts with another ten. :bang: :bang:

wells, you KNOW what the dealer did and i fling my sweatshirt halfway across the casino and storm to the cage to cash my pink chip.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! :mad:
I'm not a big fan on doubling a 9 in that position.

[proximity]

I'm not a big fan on doubling a 9 in that position.

can't remember if it was a 54, 63, or 72 but this chart seems to give doubling a 12-13% edge over hitting?:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/8ds17r4/

obviously in this particular hand i should've surrendered. :D

anyhow i shoulda saved it for vegas and not poker related but a crazy hand with not one, but two squares taking the dealer's bust card so i thought i'd share it. :)

[Donttellmeshowme]

suffered an unplanned setback of my own tonight.

i was "driving knish's truck" (sins of the past) and planned to just go home to bed when i got a call from a friend and his wife that they're going out to the racino. wells....

now i have to be careful there because word is your trainer buddy is going to attack me because posts here from a guy named shemp howard are allegedly hurting his business (but 35%-40% rival trainers had no influence, lol) but since i'm such a compulsive gambler i decided to "risk" it anyway. :rolleyes:

so i settle in for some $15 blackjack in the "party pit."

now being "mr basic strategy" i'm not going to win long term, although in a year where, ironically i'm getting drubbed in poker, i've won at blackjack i think about every single time i've played.

wells needless to say when the dealer gets eleven blackjacks before you get one, defeat is pretty much imminent.

finally, down to $32.50, i push out another $15 and double a nine against the dealers six. of course i get a three, which is pretty much par for the night.

two new players to my left have 13 and 14 and a high roller at third base has a 12.

now the high roller stands but....

13 HITS.... and busts with a ten. :bang:

14 HITS ....and busts with another ten. :bang: :bang:

wells, you KNOW what the dealer did and i fling my sweatshirt halfway across the casino and storm to the cage to cash my pink chip.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! :mad:



Wow they both hit on 13 and 14 thats when you need to get up from the table and quit and just find another table.

[proximity]

Wow they both hit on 13 and 14 thats when you need to get up from the table and quit and just find another table.

with only $2.50 left i didn't have much choice. :)

you're right for the high roller though.

he musta had about $400 in green out on that bet and a couple hands later he stormed off angry too.......

[Donttellmeshowme]

with only $2.50 left i didn't have much choice. :)

you're right for the high roller though.

he musta had about $400 in green out on that bet and a couple hands later he stormed off angry too.......



was it a 6 deck chute or was it a two deck pitch game?

I like the 2 deck pitch game.

[proximity]

was it a 6 deck chute or was it a two deck pitch game?

I like the 2 deck pitch game.

pen has otherwise good rules with surrender and stand on soft 17 but is all eight deck shoes and six deck csms. last night blackjack seemed to be all eight deck shoes with csms being spanish 21.

[proximity]

btw you'll see an even halfway decent spanish 21 player there about as often as you'll see kim kardashian splitting firewood. it is comedy gold.

[proximity]

now an mgm:

https://www.theborgata.com/mgm

some rare 2016 good news as i'll be able to take my borgata black card to vegas and get an m life gold.... so i'll pretty much be set for the strip!!!! :cool:

[proximity]

another question about middle limit holdem poker page 84 question 19:

villain limps early. hero raises AQs from middle. big blind calls. villain calls. 6 2/3 small bets in the pot (15-30 limit).

flop T98 rainbow. (no spade)

bb check
early check

hero:??

i know this is a terrible flop but while i might check this at horseshoe or sands 3/6 against atc, my gut here said to take advantage of ciaffone/brier's tight image and bet? (they checked)

my instinct was that i could get a fold a high enough percentage of the time here and especially not give a free card to a category 4 sklansky hand like KQ that might have limped early here. :confused: (it almost seems like a check is inviting a bet on the turn from certain players)

it's mostly theory for me as idk if i'll ever get to play middle limit with any consistency but i'm continuing to enjoy the book. :)

[proximity]

i guess an important sub-theme of the problem is that c-betting every three way flop that's checked to me will make me too predictable so it's better to have some criteria about when to do this..... but still my instincts tell me i could get 14% folds here (and probably even at 3/6 where stuff like 22 will even call all the way down sometimes) and be profitable even if i forfeited the hand after any CALL. i'm also holding one queen that J? is looking for. idk??

[Donttellmeshowme]

another question about middle limit holdem poker page 84 question 19:

villain limps early. hero raises AQs from middle. big blind calls. villain calls. 6 2/3 small bets in the pot (15-30 limit).

flop T98 rainbow. (no spade)

bb check
early check

hero:??

i know this is a terrible flop but while i might check this at horseshoe or sands 3/6 against atc, my gut here said to take advantage of ciaffone/brier's tight image and bet? (they checked)

my instinct was that i could get a fold a high enough percentage of the time here and especially not give a free card to a category 4 sklansky hand like KQ that might have limped early here. :confused: (it almost seems like a check is inviting a bet on the turn from certain players)

it's mostly theory for me as idk if i'll ever get to play middle limit with any consistency but i'm continuing to enjoy the book. :)



Are you the hero in the scenario

[proximity]

Are you the hero in the scenario

i'm not a big 2+2 guy, but i believe that's how they phrase it....

[proximity]

back for one final game at horseshoe baltimore before the big vegas trip!!

after getting crushed on a double diamond machine i head over to the poker room and jump into some exciting 3/6 limit action.

in just my second hand at the table i raise TT and get several callers.

i correctly sense i'm leading following a flop of 554 and bet again. two players call and i fold when the under the gun player suddenly bet a king on the turn. he went on to win the hand with a limped K9 off suit.

next i raise KK and again get several callers.

i'm leading following a flop of Q95 rainbow but a girl who called my raise from the small blind turned a 4 for two pair with 94. yes, 9-4. unfortunately i continued to bet this hand..... although she just called and tabled the 94 at showdown.

i raise AK and my neighbor calls two cold with QT off. flops a ten and turns a second one.

i raise AQ and finish a distant fifth to cold callers with TT and 75 as well as limpers with 98 and QQ.

losses with AJ and AT complete my "big ace" cycle of death and i've had about enough.

i do win one small pot from the big blind and (other than kk) get out of most of the hands early but it's yet another losing game.

out in the casino i pick up $100 of promo chips to put me up to $2010 for the year. i play the chips at blackjack and get a rare 2016 break when i get back $1042.50 to beat the ev.

overall it's been an extremely depressing year and i can't say how much more of this i'm going to play after i get back from vegas? right now though i'm just thankful for the opportunity to have this new life experience. hopefully it will be both profitable and exciting!!

thank you for reading! :)

game -49 (3/6 lim)
year -447 (28-26)
kk 0-1 (23-28)
promo 100 (2010--->1042.50)
bonus 0 (90)

[Donttellmeshowme]

back for one final game at horseshoe baltimore before the big vegas trip!!

after getting crushed on a double diamond machine i head over to the poker room and jump into some exciting 3/6 limit action.

in just my second hand at the table i raise TT and get several callers.

i correctly sense i'm leading following a flop of 554 and bet again. two players call and i fold when the under the gun player suddenly bet a king on the turn. he went on to win the hand with a limped K9 off suit.

next i raise KK and again get several callers.

i'm leading following a flop of Q95 rainbow but a girl who called my raise from the small blind turned a 4 for two pair with 94. yes, 9-4. unfortunately i continued to bet this hand..... although she just called and tabled the 94 at showdown.

i raise AK and my neighbor calls two cold with QT off. flops a ten and turns a second one.

i raise AQ and finish a distant fifth to cold callers with TT and 75 as well as limpers with 98 and QQ.

losses with AJ and AT complete my "big ace" cycle of death and i've had about enough.

i do win one small pot from the big blind and (other than kk) get out of most of the hands early but it's yet another losing game.

out in the casino i pick up $100 of promo chips to put me up to $2010 for the year. i play the chips at blackjack and get a rare 2016 break when i get back $1042.50 to beat the ev.

overall it's been an extremely depressing year and i can't say how much more of this i'm going to play after i get back from vegas? right now though i'm just thankful for the opportunity to have this new life experience. hopefully it will be both profitable and exciting!!

thank you for reading! :)

game -49 (3/6 lim)
year -447 (28-26)
kk 0-1 (23-28)
promo 100 (2010--->1042.50)
bonus 0 (90)




Wow she called a raise with 9-4. Thats the kind of people you want to stay at the table all nite long.

[charm city whizz]

Hero and villain😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


Best of luck in Vegas!!!

[proximity]

Wow she called a raise with 9-4. Thats the kind of people you want to stay at the table all nite long.

in another hand i wasn't involved in she called two big bets cold on BOTH the turn and river with 5789 on the board!!! 66, 6x, and 6x chopped her money minus rake, bad beat, and tips.

they were all bad players but the fact is that i lost.... again.

[proximity]

Best of luck in Vegas!!!

thanks man, you're one of the good guys in the game. not everyone is.

where do you play out there? any recommendations??

[dilanesp]

another question about middle limit holdem poker page 84 question 19:

villain limps early. hero raises AQs from middle. big blind calls. villain calls. 6 2/3 small bets in the pot (15-30 limit).

flop T98 rainbow. (no spade)

bb check
early check

hero:??

i know this is a terrible flop but while i might check this at horseshoe or sands 3/6 against atc, my gut here said to take advantage of ciaffone/brier's tight image and bet? (they checked)

my instinct was that i could get a fold a high enough percentage of the time here and especially not give a free card to a category 4 sklansky hand like KQ that might have limped early here. :confused: (it almost seems like a check is inviting a bet on the turn from certain players)

it's mostly theory for me as idk if i'll ever get to play middle limit with any consistency but i'm continuing to enjoy the book. :)

This is not a terrible flop. That's your first mistake.

Put your opponents on ranges and run it through equilab. I will bet dollars to donuts you have more than 33 percent equity and can thus bet this flop for value. (And then add the fact that you can sometimes get 22 or 33 to fold....)

[proximity]

This is not a terrible flop. That's your first mistake.

Put your opponents on ranges and run it through equilab. I will bet dollars to donuts you have more than 33 percent equity and can thus bet this flop for value. (And then add the fact that you can sometimes get 22 or 33 to fold....)

thanks for the response.

i'm trying to follow/apply the themes of the book while answering the questions quickly. i take it you aren't a big fan of this book??

anyhow i'm probably not going to take the book with me to vegas. i do hope to play 10/20 again there but it's not looking good right now. i've been trying to follow it on bravo and it seems like it ran for only an hour or two yesterday while most other days just go from 4/8 straight to 20/40 now. :confused:

[dilanesp]

thanks for the response.

i'm trying to follow/apply the themes of the book while answering the questions quickly. i take it you aren't a big fan of this book??

anyhow i'm probably not going to take the book with me to vegas. i do hope to play 10/20 again there but it's not looking good right now. i've been trying to follow it on bravo and it seems like it ran for only an hour or two yesterday while most other days just go from 4/8 straight to 20/40 now. :confused:

I think there are board textures that you should check 3-way with AQ unimproved.

But T98 isn't one of them.

Bellagio spreads 10/20 almost every day. I live 3 hours from Vegas and go all the time. You should be able to crush that game.

[proximity]

i'm only seeing two 20/40s a 4/8 and a 4/8 1/2 kill? :confused:

4 person list for 40? :confused:

at any rate there's no backing out now.

[proximity]

anyone know anything about this flamingo tournament???

WEEKLY FREEROLLS 12 HOURS TO QUALIFY - $6,000 PRIZE POOL HELD FRIDAYS @ 10AM 1ST - 10TH = $300 EACH 11TH - 20TH = $200 EACH 21ST - 30TH = $100.

it seems like they only have a handful of games going everyday?

do different locals move in and out of the games, get twelve hours, and then all show up on friday morning?? :confused:

[Track Collector]

It should go without saying that we wish you the best on your trip to Vegas, and there is going to be a lot of disappointment if we do not get at least daily reports!

Hoping to see you at Timonium a few times too, so hopefully you don't return from Vegas exhausted, and your work schedule is agreeable. (I'm making Timonium a racing day / poker night doubleheader on at least the Fridays and Saturdays, but no decision has been made yet in regard to which venue. It could be Horseshoe one night and/or MDLive the next.). Unless the poker bankroll takes a big hit, it is hard to turn down a playing session that is about 15 miles or less from the Fairgrounds. It might even be nice to stay the night, but that probably would not earn any points with the wife. :)

[proximity]

It should go without saying that we wish you the best on your trip to Vegas, and there is going to be a lot of disappointment if we do not get at least daily reports!

i'm just taking my flintstone's era flip phone but maybe i'll sneak on a diamond business center computer one day if i can?

Hoping to see you at Timonium a few times too, so hopefully you don't return from Vegas exhausted, and your work schedule is agreeable. (I'm making Timonium a racing day / poker night doubleheader on at least the Fridays and Saturdays, but no decision has been made yet in regard to which venue. It could be Horseshoe one night and/or MDLive the next.). Unless the poker bankroll takes a big hit, it is hard to turn down a playing session that is about 15 miles or less from the Fairgrounds. It might even be nice to stay the night, but that probably would not earn any points with the wife. :)

i usually go 1-3x. always a good time!!

[proximity]

here are some stats heading into the trip:

2016
season 28-26 (-447)

p.a.
career 153-115 (+254)

no limit
career 60-47 (-222)

limit
career 93-68 (+476)

low
limit 92-68 (+285)

mid
limit 1-0 (+191)

hs
balt 53-35 (+1171)

[Red Knave]

WEEKLY FREEROLLS 12 HOURS TO QUALIFY - $6,000 PRIZE POOL HELD FRIDAYS @ 10AM 1ST - 10TH = $300 EACH 11TH - 20TH = $200 EACH 21ST - 30TH = $100.
Most casino card rooms do something like this. Play live for some number of hours in a week/month and you can get into one of these.

it seems like they only have a handful of games going everyday?I would suggest that you look elsewhere for your daily play. From your location, Mirage or Caesar's is where I would look first. For higher level play, Bellagio, Venetian, maybe Aria. Even Orleans if you can get there. The free rolls there are pretty well attended and their rewards (Boyd Gaming) seem better than on the strip (Caesars, MGM).

do different locals move in and out of the games, get twelve hours, and then all show up on friday morning?? :confused:Pretty much. It disrupts the regular cash games and tournaments a bit. Casinos try to have these tourneys on different days and times from each other. If they actually had much more than 3 full tables in this tournament I would be surprised.

[charm city whizz]

thanks man, you're one of the good guys in the game. not everyone is.

where do you play out there? any recommendations??


Only one place to play.....the Venetian

Haven't been there Prob since 2010 but they at the time had 4-8 and 8-16....play was horrid, and my play was horrid😂😂😂😂😂😂

Good luck!!

[charm city whizz]

thanks man, you're one of the good guys in the game. not everyone is.

where do you play out there? any recommendations??


Also rembember going off strip with gf and believe it or not the Orleans has great limit action and promos.....

Small indicator but a good one at 8:30am they have a 8-16 omaha game and a 4/8 game....should be lots more as day goes on

On bravo reading something about 4 of a kind bonuses

You may like this place, hit them in 4/8 then play 8/16 you should do well, and expect the games to be very passive with locals there

[thaskalos]

Bellagio spreads 10/20 almost every day. I live 3 hours from Vegas and go all the time. You should be able to crush that game.

I know that you have a general disdain for the "psychological" aspects of poker...but there is a HUGE mental adjustment to be made when leaping from the 3/6 game that proximity has been playing, to the 10/20 game that you are suggesting. Up'til now, proximity has only experienced losses of the $200-range...and a $100 loss in a game appears sizeable to him. I can imagine his reaction when he starts losing $100+ in a single HAND...and finds himself down $1,000+ in a single game.

Am I saying that proximity has no chance of "crushing" the 10/20 game? Of course not. But, as Joey Knish would tell you...you need at least $2,000 in your pocket in order to sit and play right in that game. My advice is for proximity to expose himself to the 5/10 game first.

[charm city whizz]

I know that you have a general disdain for the "psychological" aspects of poker...but there is a HUGE mental adjustment to be made when leaping from the 3/6 game that proximity has been playing, to the 10/20 game that you are suggesting. Up'til now, proximity has only experienced losses of the $200-range...and a $100 loss in a game appears sizeable to him. I can imagine his reaction when he starts losing $100+ in a single HAND...and finds himself down $1,000+ in a single game.

Am I saying that proximity has no chance of "crushing" the 10/20 game? Of course not. But, as Joey Knish would tell you...you need at least $2,000 in your pocket in order to sit and play right in that game. My advice is for proximity to expose himself to the 5/10 game first.

Could not agree more.....my times between 10/20 and 20/40 limit games are about 2-3 months a clip, when I catch a bad hand the 100-300 loss in the hand are jarring and that's a regular bet and raise hands, as opposed to losing 12 or 17 in no limit when u miss a flop

I am in the same camp as thank, you need money in pocket to play these games, I can't go drive to ac with 400 to play 10/20

For the night if I go play 10/20 I bring 1500 (plus other gaming)
20/40 im Gonna need 2500 on me to play right, I don't always have that pending how I've been blowing money in horses and sports (sad but true)


Don't care what Anybody says u need 2500 your able to lose to play in 20/40...

[thaskalos]

Don't care what Anybody says u need 2500 your able to lose to play in 20/40...
That's why I like you, whizz...you tell it like it is. There are many guys who put a sizable amount in their pocket and sit down at the poker table. But you have to be able to LOSE that money, without having the loss impact your life too negatively...otherwise you sabotage your winning chances right from the start.

I wish you would post more often. :ThmbUp:

[dilanesp]

I know that you have a general disdain for the "psychological" aspects of poker...but there is a HUGE mental adjustment to be made when leaping from the 3/6 game that proximity has been playing, to the 10/20 game that you are suggesting. Up'til now, proximity has only experienced losses of the $200-range...and a $100 loss in a game appears sizeable to him. I can imagine his reaction when he starts losing $100+ in a single HAND...and finds himself down $1,000+ in a single game.

Am I saying that proximity has no chance of "crushing" the 10/20 game? Of course not. But, as Joey Knish would tell you...you need at least $2,000 in your pocket in order to sit and play right in that game. My advice is for proximity to expose himself to the 5/10 game first.

Anyone whose mind is as weak as you posit should not play poker to make money at all.

You actually need at least $6k to play 10-20 seriously. But I assume prox wouldn't play if he wasn't properly rolled. In terms of psychology, though? Come on.

[dilanesp]

Could not agree more.....my times between 10/20 and 20/40 limit games are about 2-3 months a clip, when I catch a bad hand the 100-300 loss in the hand are jarring and that's a regular bet and raise hands, as opposed to losing 12 or 17 in no limit when u miss a flop

I am in the same camp as thank, you need money in pocket to play these games, I can't go drive to ac with 400 to play 10/20

For the night if I go play 10/20 I bring 1500 (plus other gaming)
20/40 im Gonna need 2500 on me to play right, I don't always have that pending how I've been blowing money in horses and sports (sad but true)


Don't care what Anybody says u need 2500 your able to lose to play in 20/40...

If losing a few hundred is "jarring", quit poker. Seriously.

[charm city whizz]

If losing a few hundred is "jarring", quit poker. Seriously.

To the average player..... but just another classic comment by the best gambler on the forum, if everybody played like you every 10/20 pot would be $15


Not sure why you haven't wrote 5 books with all your game theory

[thaskalos]

Anyone whose mind is as weak as you posit should not play poker to make money at all.

You actually need at least $6k to play 10-20 seriously. But I assume prox wouldn't play if he wasn't properly rolled. In terms of psychology, though? Come on.

I don't know a thing about proximity...I go strictly by what he writes on this board. And he hasn't posted ANYTHING that would make me think that he is currently "properly rolled" for a 10/20 game. I would have thought that a "highly perceptive" poker player such as yourself would have realized this as well. But then again...maybe you choose to concentrate on your amusing replies...instead of paying close attention to what other posters have to say.

[charm city whizz]

That's why I like you, whizz...you tell it like it is. There are many guys who put a sizable amount in their pocket and sit down at the poker table. But you have to be able to LOSE that money, without having the loss impact your life too negatively...otherwise you sabotage your winning chances right from the start.

I wish you would post more often. :ThmbUp:

Thank you sir!!!!! Always love reading your replies on gambling as a whole as I know you have been through your share of battles in non holdem games......

seriously doubt the know it all in this thread has any clue about cards outside of holdem....I gotta take heat cuz I don't like losing 300 in a hand😂😂😂😂😂😂

[thaskalos]

Thank you sir!!!!! Always love reading your replies on gambling as a whole as I know you have been through your share of battles in non holdem games......

seriously doubt the know it all in this thread has any clue about cards outside of holdem....I gotta take heat cuz I don't like losing 300 in a hand 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Well...Dilanesp supposedly has a law degree to fall back on...so, $300 ain't a big deal to him. The rest of us have a little more respect for the money. ;)

[dilanesp]

To the average player..... but just another classic comment by the best gambler on the forum, if everybody played like you every 10/20 pot would be $15


Not sure why you haven't wrote 5 books with all your game theory

The point is, even at 3/6, losing a few hundred dollars is totally standard even if you play well. So if someone's finamces or willpower is such that such a loss would pose a psychological burden, it's not a good idea to play poker even if you are an expert strategist.

Prox knows some of the math and is willing to take the risk in 10/20. He should play it.

[dilanesp]

Well...Dilanesp supposedly has a law degree to fall back on...so, $300 ain't a big deal to him. The rest of us have a little more respect for the money. ;)

Has nothing to do with that. It's built into the game and cannot be avoided . It's like someone who is afraid of heights doing BASE jumping. If losing a few hundred hurts you, you can't play poker.

[thaskalos]

The point is, even at 3/6, losing a few hundred dollars is totally standard even if you play well. So if someone's finamces or willpower is such that such a loss would pose a psychological burden, it's not a good idea to play poker even if you are an expert strategist.

Prox knows some of the math and is willing to take the risk in 10/20. He should play it.

Sure...there is no reason why proximity shouldn't attack the 10/20 game. After all...he has read 82 pages of Bob Ciaffone's book.

[dilanesp]

Sure...there is no reason why proximity shouldn't attack the 10/20 game. After all...he has read 82 pages of Bob Ciaffone's book.

He has posted hands here for years. He appears disciplined, and seems to play sensibly. Those akills are sufficient to beat Bellagio 10.

[thaskalos]

He has posted hands here for years. He appears disciplined, and seems to play sensibly. Those akills are sufficient to beat Bellagio 10.

Before assuring him -- TWICE -- that he could beat the 10/20 at the Bellagio...have you bothered to ask him if he has an adequate BANKROLL for the endeavor? Or is this a minor consideration, in your opinion?

[proximity]

I would suggest that you look elsewhere for your daily play. From your location, Mirage or Caesar's is where I would look first. For higher level play, Bellagio, Venetian, maybe Aria. Even Orleans if you can get there. The free rolls there are pretty well attended and their rewards (Boyd Gaming) seem better than on the strip (Caesars, MGM).

i don't have any set itinerary but i'll probably go to mirage and bellagio a lot. word now is i can get a mlife(?) gold card with my borgata black card.

apparently there is some kinda shuttle to orleans but idk if i'll do that or not?



Pretty much. It disrupts the regular cash games and tournaments a bit. Casinos try to have these tourneys on different days and times from each other. If they actually had much more than 3 full tables in this tournament I would be surprised.

this is what i'm getting at..... it looks like an overlay.

[proximity]

Only one place to play.....the Venetian

Haven't been there Prob since 2010 but they at the time had 4-8 and 8-16....play was horrid, and my play was horrid😂😂😂😂😂😂

Good luck!!


only saw 4/8 once out of all the days i was monitoring bravo. it looks really nice though so i'll probably go and check it out anyway.

[proximity]

I know that you have a general disdain for the "psychological" aspects of poker...but there is a HUGE mental adjustment to be made when leaping from the 3/6 game that proximity has been playing, to the 10/20 game that you are suggesting. Up'til now, proximity has only experienced losses of the $200-range...and a $100 loss in a game appears sizeable to him. I can imagine his reaction when he starts losing $100+ in a single HAND...and finds himself down $1,000+ in a single game.

Am I saying that proximity has no chance of "crushing" the 10/20 game? Of course not. But, as Joey Knish would tell you...you need at least $2,000 in your pocket in order to sit and play right in that game. My advice is for proximity to expose himself to the 5/10 game first.

here's a link to my first mid-limit game last month at borgata:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2012111&postcount=277

while i'm trying (and failing) to build up a bankroll from just game winnings alone money and psychology was no object.

the only negative about this is that i like to have winning years when i gamble and any decent loss at this level could really put me behind the 8 ball for that because the stakes aren't consistently available to me.

possibly this fall i could get to borgata more but horseshoe's always tempting because it's closer, there aren't any tolls, and i get promo chips almost every time i go there.

[proximity]

Could not agree more.....my times between 10/20 and 20/40 limit games are about 2-3 months a clip, when I catch a bad hand the 100-300 loss in the hand are jarring and that's a regular bet and raise hands, as opposed to losing 12 or 17 in no limit when u miss a flop

I am in the same camp as thank, you need money in pocket to play these games, I can't go drive to ac with 400 to play 10/20

For the night if I go play 10/20 I bring 1500 (plus other gaming)
20/40 im Gonna need 2500 on me to play right, I don't always have that pending how I've been blowing money in horses and sports (sad but true)


Don't care what Anybody says u need 2500 your able to lose to play in 20/40...

20/40 is too much for me.

at borgata i bought in for a rack of red (seemed standard) and was prepared to lose up to $300 more.

[proximity]

To the average player..... but just another classic comment by the best gambler on the forum, if everybody played like you every 10/20 pot would be $15


Not sure why you haven't wrote 5 books with all your game theory

i guess he can be a little acerbic but overall he's an excellent player and i enjoy his posts on both our site and "that other" site. :)

$15 pots?? :confused: idk as it seems he's one of the most aggressive players over there?

[thaskalos]

here's a link to my first mid-limit game last month at borgata:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2012111&postcount=277

while i'm trying (and failing) to build up a bankroll from just game winnings alone money and psychology was no object.

the only negative about this is that i like to have winning years when i gamble and any decent loss at this level could really put me behind the 8 ball for that because the stakes aren't consistently available to me.

possibly this fall i could get to borgata more but horseshoe's always tempting because it's closer, there aren't any tolls, and i get promo chips almost every time i go there.

I read this when you initially posted it...but I couldn't determine by it if you are sufficiently capitalized for the 10/20 game. Yes...you bought in for $500...and you weathered the storm when you fell $300 behind in the game...winning $191 in the process. Is this supposed to show me that "money is no object" to you? When I asked you last year why you were buying in so short in the 1/2 NL games, you told me that you didn't want to risk the additional funds...and you even brought up some car troubles that you were having...which were causing you considerable distress. If things dramatically improved financially for you within the last year, then you have my congratulations...and my best wishes for your future poker endeavors. But if you think that it only gets bad enough to be down $300-$400 in a 10/20 game...then you are greatly mistaken.

Nothing would please me more than to assure you, as dilanesp has done, that you could "crush" the 10/20 game. But I can't do that and still live with myself. You have to EARN the right to move up in stakes, IMO...and, although it pains me to say it, you haven't yet proven that you can handle the "rise in class". At least wait until you finish Ciaffone's book.

[proximity]

Sure...there is no reason why proximity shouldn't attack the 10/20 game. After all...he has read 82 pages of Bob Ciaffone's book.

it's basically the next step up. 6/12 rarely goes in the region.

i certainly don't want to be cocky and while i'm not at the near world class level of dilane, i am a very good player and expect to win any game i sit in.

[thaskalos]

it's basically the next step up. 6/12 rarely goes in the region.

i certainly don't want to be cocky and while i'm not at the near world class level of dilane, i am a very good player and expect to win any game i sit in.

I don't doubt your playing ability. I am just wondering why you can't beat the 3/6 game. Do you feel that the rake is doing you in?

[proximity]

I read this when you initially posted it...but I couldn't determine by it if you are sufficiently capitalized for the 10/20 game. Yes...you bought in for $500...and you weathered the storm when you fell $300 behind in the game...winning $191 in the process. Is this supposed to show me that "money is no object" to you?

no, it's supposed to show that i wasn't a psychological wreck because of $20 big bets.

again, limit hold em is an interest and since mid limit isn't consistently available to me i don't need to be sufficiently capitalized. it's something i wanted to try for a long time though and so i did and will again.


When I asked you last year why you were buying in so short in the 1/2 NL games, you told me that you didn't want to risk the additional funds...and you even brought up some car troubles that you were having...which were causing you considerable distress. If things dramatically improved financially for you within the last year, then you have my congratulations...and my best wishes for your future poker endeavors. But if you think that it only gets bad enough to be down $300-$400 in a 10/20 game...then you are greatly mistaken.

it's different as i could win five hands and then lose my whole stack in no limit, a game where i need(ed) more experience as i never considered myself a solid player. and sure i'm doing better than when i started financially as in addition to my admittedly minimal game profits i got a lot of bonus money, promo chips, and reward credits from the casinos.

Nothing would please me more than to assure you, as dilanesp has done, that you could "crush" the 10/20 game. But I can't do that and still live with myself. You have to EARN the right to move up in stakes, IMO...and, although it pains me to say it, you haven't yet proven that you can handle the "rise in class". At least wait until you finish Ciaffone's book.

apparently i'm one of the only winners at low stakes but i haven't earned the right to play 10/20 on rare trips to borgata or bellagio??

[thaskalos]

apparently i'm one of the only winners at low stakes but i haven't earned the right to play 10/20 on rare trips to borgata or bellagio??

How are you a "winner at the low stakes"? Aren't you down for the year...after playing 3/6 exclusively?

[proximity]

I don't doubt your playing ability. I am just wondering why you can't beat the 3/6 game. Do you feel that the rake is doing you in?

many people say NOBODY can beat it.

as posted i am still ahead in it although i admit i'd like to be winning more.

among mid atlantic players who have played 100+ games of this over the last three years i'm probably still near the top despite this being a bad season for me.

the rake, bad beat, and tip hurt a lot but i don't want to make excuses and overall i always enjoyed the game. certainly more than freezing alone in the penn national racing clubhouse.

[proximity]

How are you a "winner at the low stakes"? Aren't you down for the year...after playing 3/6 exclusively?


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2027755&postcount=374

[thaskalos]

many people say NOBODY can beat it.

as posted i am still ahead in it although i admit i'd like to be winning more.

among mid atlantic players who have played 100+ games of this over the last three years i'm probably still near the top despite this being a bad season for me.

the rake, bad beat, and tip hurt a lot but i don't want to make excuses and overall i always enjoyed the game. certainly more than freezing alone in the penn national racing clubhouse.

I am pulling for you in your Vegas journey...and I wish you a lot of luck. I never said that you had no business trying the 10/20 game on an infrequent basis. I originally directed my comments at Dilanesp...who said he was sure that you could crush the 10/20 at the Bellagio (post #369). To occasionally dabble in the 10/20 is one thing; to attempt to CRUSH it is something else entirely. You need at least $6,000 (I would say $10,000) in order to make a serious attempt at beating that game...and it isn't rare to have a $2,000 session loss...even after playing the "right way".

[thaskalos]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2027755&postcount=374

You are +$476 in your posting career at limit...but you are -447 this year, after 52 sessions. Your results are ambiguous, IMO...and hardly aspire confidence at the 10/20 level. It isn't about "playing ability", proximity. It's about having an adequate bankroll...so you could be mentally prepared to play according to whatever skill you might possess. Don't listen to me...listen to your friend Whizz (post #379).

[proximity]

I am pulling for you in your Vegas journey...and I wish you a lot of luck. I never said that you had no business trying the 10/20 game on an infrequent basis. I originally directed my comments at Dilanesp...who said he was sure that you could crush the 10/20 at the Bellagio (post #369). To occasionally dabble in the 10/20 is one thing; to attempt to CRUSH it is something else entirely. You need at least $6,000 (I would say $10,000) in order to make a serious attempt at beating that game...at it isn't rare to have a $2,000 session loss...even after playing the "right way".

if i wanted to drive to borgata every week and play "full time" (i don't) i'd just take $6000 out of racing and do it. i don't want to do that although i would like to get more established there and possibly start getting some rooms. who even knows what kind of offers current regular players will get though with this switch to mgm??

dilane is a great player and very confident.

it seems to me consistency builds confidence but that's hard for a 3/6 player because of the tremendous variance that facing fields of 8+ going to the flop will yield. he wins 71% with KK = consistency ---> confidence.

jmo

[dilanesp]

You are +$476 in your posting career at limit...but you are -447 this year, after 52 sessions. Your results are ambiguous, IMO...and hardly aspire confidence at the 10/20 level. It isn't about "playing ability", proximity. It's about having an adequate bankroll...so you could be mentally prepared to play according to whatever skill you might possess. Don't listen to me...listen to your friend Whizz (post #379).

3/6 is often tougher to beat than 10/20. DUCY?

[dilanesp]

I am pulling for you in your Vegas journey...and I wish you a lot of luck. I never said that you had no business trying the 10/20 game on an infrequent basis. I originally directed my comments at Dilanesp...who said he was sure that you could crush the 10/20 at the Bellagio (post #369). To occasionally dabble in the 10/20 is one thing; to attempt to CRUSH it is something else entirely. You need at least $6,000 (I would say $10,000) in order to make a serious attempt at beating that game...and it isn't rare to have a $2,000 session loss...even after playing the "right way".

Actually a $2000 session loss at 10/20 would be extremely rare for any sort of decent player. I have never had a session loss of more than $3500 in 20/40, and I have had only one session loss of $1600 in 8/16, over more than 14,000 hours of live poker. 100BB losses are highly uncommon. But had you said $1000 or even $1250, your point would be valid.

I'll post something longer about money and how y'all have to think about it if you want to be good at poker. Suffice to say, Prox understands money's psychological role in poker a lot better than you do (even though you do understand bankroll requirements).

[thaskalos]

3/6 is often tougher to beat than 10/20. DUCY?

This may well be true. But it doesn't ensure that a 3/6 winner could beat the 10/20 game. If such was the case...then there would be a lot more 10/20 games out there.

[proximity]

You are +$476 in your posting career at limit...but you are -447 this year, after 52 sessions. Your results are ambiguous, IMO...and hardly aspire confidence at the 10/20 level. It isn't about "playing ability", proximity. It's about having an adequate bankroll...so you could be mentally prepared to play according to whatever skill you might possess. Don't listen to me...listen to your friend Whizz (post #379).

i did respond to him that 20/40 would be too much for me but i wasn't uncomfortable at all with the stakes or competition at 10/20. i wasn't used to some of the "mechanics" (posting, time,...) of the game but consider that a learning experience.

btw, he goes to foxwoods and plays 20/40 to 40/80 stud.... :)

[thaskalos]

Actually a $2000 session loss at 10/20 would be extremely rare for any sort of decent player. I have never had a session loss of more than $3500 in 20/40, and I have had only one session loss of $1600 in 8/16, over more than 14,000 hours of live poker. 100BB losses are highly uncommon. But had you said $1000 or even $1250, your point would be valid.

I'll post something longer about money and how y'all have to think about it if you want to be good at poker. Suffice to say, Prox understands money's psychological role in poker a lot better than you do (even though you do understand bankroll requirements).

Don't do it on my account. This may surprise you...but I've managed to survive in games where you would be scared SHITLESS to sit in.

[thaskalos]

I'll post something longer about money and how y'all have to think about it if you want to be good at poker. Suffice to say, Prox understands money's psychological role in poker a lot better than you do (even though you do understand bankroll requirements).

Judging by your posts here...I'd be more perturbed if you PRAISED me.

[dilanesp]

Don't do it on my account. This may surprise you...but I've managed to survive in games where you would be scared SHITLESS to sit in.

I'm not surprised that you claim that.

I do not, however, believe that you are anything close to a winning long-term poker player.

[dilanesp]

This may well be true. But it doesn't ensure that a 3/6 winner could beat the 10/20 game. If such was the case...then there would be a lot more 10/20 games out there.

Certainly in Southern California, any player good enough to beat 3/6 would be a huge winner in 8/16 and a significant winner in 20/40. Might be a little less true in Las Vegas due to the smaller rakes, but it wouldn't be MUCH less true.

[ReplayRandall]

I'm not surprised that you claim that.

I do not, however, believe that you are anything close to a winning long-term poker player.

Idiotic push-button post #1......

[proximity]

It should go without saying that we wish you the best on your trip to Vegas, and there is going to be a lot of disappointment if we do not get at least daily reports!


if this thread gets locked while i'm gone should i just start a new "vegas trip report" thread? :lol:

[thaskalos]

Idiotic push-button post #1......

You expected more from the guy who proclaimed that NL holdem is essentially a "pre-flop" game? :)

[thaskalos]

Certainly in Southern California, any player good enough to beat 3/6 would be a huge winner in 8/16 and a significant winner in 20/40. Might be a little less true in Las Vegas due to the smaller rakes, but it wouldn't be MUCH less true.

Why stop there? Those 3/6 winners may even be strong favorites in the 40/80 games. All they have to do is find someone to stake them in the higher limits...so they could cope with the psychological pressure of putting a great deal of their own money at risk.

Sounds good to me. :ThmbUp:

[dilanesp]

You expected more from the guy who proclaimed that NL holdem is essentially a "pre-flop" game? :)

I never claimed that.

I did claim that except for elite players, the math shows very convincingly that they do not actually make up for their pre-flop mistakes with post-flop play, though they all believe they do.

BTW, I did some research on this and looked up my old table ratings data dumps. Now, granted this was online play, but basically there were zero full ring no limit winners who played above about 25/21. (That means 25 percent voluntarily putting money into the pot, 21 percent pre-flop raises.) And the vast majority of the top players were clustered between 17/11 and 20/15. In other words, the category of "post-flop genius who can make money despite overly loose pre-flop play" was essentially a null set. Meanwhile the winning players all obviously worked a ton on pre-flop.

So many of Thas' beliefs about poker are basically things bad players who don't keep records and think they make much more money than they actually do, believe. I just find it sad and pitiful.

[dilanesp]

Why stop there? Those 3/6 winners may even be strong favorites in the 40/80 games. All they have to do is find someone to stake them in the higher limits...so they could cope with the psychological pressure of putting a great deal of their own money at risk.

Sounds good to me. :ThmbUp:

Do I have to explain this in detail, thas?

To beat a typical live 3/6 game long term, you would need to basically run at 7 or 8BB/100 hands just to beat the rake. Only a fairly small handful of poker players can beat ANY game at 7 or 8BB/100. So anyone who actually beat a 3/6 game at a significant rate over a significant sample would be a very, very good player who could beat fairly high limits.

In truth, nobody actually beats 3/6. The players who could are of course playing much higher.

[thaskalos]

I never claimed that.

I did claim that except for elite players, the math shows very convincingly that they do not actually make up for their pre-flop mistakes with post-flop play, though they all believe they do.

BTW, I did some research on this and looked up my old table ratings data dumps. Now, granted this was online play, but basically there were zero full ring no limit winners who played above about 25/21. (That means 25 percent voluntarily putting money into the pot, 21 percent pre-flop raises.) And the vast majority of the top players were clustered between 17/11 and 20/15. In other words, the category of "post-flop genius who can make money despite overly loose pre-flop play" was essentially a null set. Meanwhile the winning players all obviously worked a ton on pre-flop.

So many of Thas' beliefs about poker are basically things bad players who don't keep records and think they make much more money than they actually do, believe. I just find it sad and pitiful.

And if I ask you to name a few of those "so many" erroneous beliefs of mine...you won't be able to list a single one. Face it, Dilane...you never pay attention to what others say here...you are too preoccupied with the amusing replies that you intend to post. That's why you continually claim that I downplay the importance of the "math" in the holdem games...even though I never made such a comment myself.

You want to know what I consider "sad and pitiful"? When I see a poker player come to an anonymous online forum, and proclaim that he is one of the most successful players in his choice of game...while fully realizing that there is no way for those listening to verify the veracity of his claims. Know who I am talking about? :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

Do I have to explain this in detail, thas?

To beat a typical live 3/6 game long term, you would need to basically run at 7 or 8BB/100 hands just to beat the rake. Only a fairly small handful of poker players can beat ANY game at 7 or 8BB/100. So anyone who actually beat a 3/6 game at a significant rate over a significant sample would be a very, very good player who could beat fairly high limits.

In truth, nobody actually beats 3/6. The players who could are of course playing much higher.

Not true. Our very own proximity is a winner in the 3/6 game. Would you like to stake him in the 20/40 game? If what you say is true...then this could be a very profitable arrangement for the BOTH of you. :ThmbUp:

Are you forgetting that the winning 3/6 player is only soundly beating other 3/6 players? Do you suppose that he will face similar competition in the 20/40 games?

[proximity]

Are you forgetting that the winning 3/6 player is only soundly beating other 3/6 players? Do you suppose that he will face similar competition in the 20/40 games?

when i played at borgata some players were talking about 10/20 being comparable to 4/8 but i really didn't see it. overall i found it to be more tight aggressive and certainly lacking the "family pots" prevalent at low limit. there were a couple players who were basically wealthier 2/4 players and most of the profits seemed to come from them.

they seemed to indicate also that 20 to 40 marked the jump to "real" poker where sometimes multiple aggressive players in a hand can put more pressure on.

for me two areas that i had to pay closer attention to (and play more) were overcards and blinds. i'm going to fold these a lot against larger fields, legitimate raises, and 1/3 small blinds of 3/6 so i don't have as much experience in this area but i was cognizant of this going in and thought i adapted well.

[proximity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHl-sd9aU0

here's a 20/40 i've posted before from 2005 that i'd most likely beat.

would i beat it today? idk? we could ask dilane and i wouldn't be offended if he said "no" or "not right away, son" because times change and the game and conditions evolve.

[Track Collector]

I can see dilanesp's point about how it is certainly is not out of the realm of possibility for a successful 3/6 Limit player to do better moving up because the absolute winnings would do a better job of covering the rake. That said, Thaskalos is spot on saying there most certainly is a psychological element to be overcome when moving up in class in addition the larger required bankrolls (both session and overall). Ideally something in between 3/6 and 10/20 would seem logical if those games can be found. Assuming one plays technically correct, I see nothing wrong though with giving 10/20 a try on a finally realized vacation to Vegas for a short duration AS LONG AS one recognizes that short term variance can be a boom or bust to your bankroll.

Two final thoughts.........
(1) I'm rooting, like others, for proximity to have a financially successful trip.
(2) Regardless of the financial results at the 10/20 limit game level, they are going to have little significance at this point in time as to the assessment of proximity's ability in that game. (Darn that Live Poker, it takes tons of hours at a given level to be statistically significant.).

[Donttellmeshowme]

Could not agree more.....my times between 10/20 and 20/40 limit games are about 2-3 months a clip, when I catch a bad hand the 100-300 loss in the hand are jarring and that's a regular bet and raise hands, as opposed to losing 12 or 17 in no limit when u miss a flop

I am in the same camp as thank, you need money in pocket to play these games, I can't go drive to ac with 400 to play 10/20

For the night if I go play 10/20 I bring 1500 (plus other gaming)
20/40 im Gonna need 2500 on me to play right, I don't always have that pending how I've been blowing money in horses and sports (sad but true)


Don't care what Anybody says u need 2500 your able to lose to play in 20/40...



Shit you might need more than $2500. I would bring as much as i could to the table in a 20/40 game. Game could get crazy if you got some loose players.

[proximity]

I can see dilanesp's point about how it is certainly is not out of the realm of possibility for a successful 3/6 Limit player to do better moving up because the absolute winnings would do a better job of covering the rake. That said, Thaskalos is spot on saying there most certainly is a psychological element to be overcome when moving up in class in addition the larger required bankrolls (both session and overall). Ideally something in between 3/6 and 10/20 would seem logical if those games can be found. Assuming one plays technically correct, I see nothing wrong though with giving 10/20 a try on a finally realized vacation to Vegas for a short duration AS LONG AS one recognizes that short term variance can be a boom or bust to your bankroll.

Two final thoughts.........
(1) I'm rooting, like others, for proximity to have a financially successful trip.
(2) Regardless of the financial results at the 10/20 limit game level, they are going to have little significance at this point in time as to the assessment of proximity's ability in that game. (Darn that Live Poker, it takes tons of hours at a given level to be statistically significant.).

lol, i'd say 3/6 with her silly $3 flop bets and family pots is MORE stressful.

10/20 had a nice balance to it.

20/40 is too much for me as i don't usually carry that much cash around the casinos.

[Donttellmeshowme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHl-sd9aU0

here's a 20/40 i've posted before from 2005 that i'd most likely beat.

would i beat it today? idk? we could ask dilane and i wouldn't be offended if he said "no" or "not right away, son" because times change and the game and conditions evolve.





Are you mostly a No Limit player or a Limit player?

Personally i cant stand to play Limit?

[proximity]

Shit you might need more than $2500. I would bring as much as i could to the table in a 20/40 game. Game could get crazy if you got some loose players.


charm city is actually a pretty tight card player believe it or not.

of course i recon he probably carries a lot for golf action on the trips. :)

[proximity]

Are you mostly a No Limit player or a Limit player?

Personally i cant stand to play Limit?

i think i'm at 161 limit and 107 no limit in the games i've posted here.

i started in limit with sklansky's little yellow book (not the best choice) and always enjoyed it. after awhile though, playing a lot at penn national, i got more into no limit. :)

[proximity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHl-sd9aU0

.

6:40..... the guy's folded AA preflop?

those tricky 20/40 players!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[proximity]

. Would you like to stake him in the 20/40 game?

my source isn't very reliable but i heard a rumor dilane had a bad staking experience before at 20 that soured him on the practice.

word is that he staked vicky in this game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHl-sd9aU0

if you listen very closely you can hear a faint voice coming from across the casino when she gives ramona a free card at 8:18...

"you don't know the maaaaaaath......"

when he gets to the table at 12:48 though and she unleashes that smile, he decides maybe she knows a little more math than he originally thought. :)

[charm city whizz]

Shit you might need more than $2500. I would bring as much as i could to the table in a 20/40 game. Game could get crazy if you got some loose players.

2500 is safe for 20/40.....for whatver reason when I play 20/40 stud I buy in for 700 in red and 400 in green, if I blow off 2500 it's time to leave lololololo

20/40 holdem which plays much bigger I buy in for all red, and its always a shoot out and rarely a bad game, I just really can't afford to play it and in my opinion has a stronger player pool, lots of weak players but too many machines in my opinion

again im sure dilane just jump in and tell everybody what the right buy in is and all the other game theory

[charm city whizz]

And if I ask you to name a few of those "so many" erroneous beliefs of mine...you won't be able to list a single one. Face it, Dilane...you never pay attention to what others say here...you are too preoccupied with the amusing replies that you intend to post. That's why you continually claim that I downplay the importance of the "math" in the holdem games...even though I never made such a comment myself.

You want to know what I consider "sad and pitiful"? When I see a poker player come to an anonymous online forum, and proclaim that he is one of the most successful players in his choice of game...while fully realizing that there is no way for those listening to verify the veracity of his claims. Know who I am talking about? :rolleyes:

Dilanes speeches on this forum are pathetic.....west coast legend, no way of verifying claims, rather listen to yours proximitys and track collectors story's that I know are at least real

[dilanesp]

I can see dilanesp's point about how it is certainly is not out of the realm of possibility for a successful 3/6 Limit player to do better moving up because the absolute winnings would do a better job of covering the rake. That said, Thaskalos is spot on saying there most certainly is a psychological element to be overcome when moving up in class in addition the larger required bankrolls (both session and overall). Ideally something in between 3/6 and 10/20 would seem logical if those games can be found. Assuming one plays technically correct, I see nothing wrong though with giving 10/20 a try on a finally realized vacation to Vegas for a short duration AS LONG AS one recognizes that short term variance can be a boom or bust to your bankroll.

Two final thoughts.........
(1) I'm rooting, like others, for proximity to have a financially successful trip.
(2) Regardless of the financial results at the 10/20 limit game level, they are going to have little significance at this point in time as to the assessment of proximity's ability in that game. (Darn that Live Poker, it takes tons of hours at a given level to be statistically significant.).

The problem with this analysis is a player freaked out by short term losses is going to have a hard time winning at any level at all, because it correlates with other leaks.

So the number of actual players who could beat 3/6 but not move up is going to be zero.

[dilanesp]

Dilanes speeches on this forum are pathetic.....west coast legend, no way of verifying claims, rather listen to yours proximitys and track collectors story's that I know are at least real

A simple question that can get at the issue here. Does Thas know how many hours of live poker he has played in the last, say, 5 years?

If the answer is no, my point about him is irrefutable (because it means he has no idea of how well he actually plays statistically).

And all of you have a standing invitation to come play limit with me in Southern California. I am the real deal.

[charm city whizz]

A simple question that can get at the issue here. Does Thas know how many hours of live poker he has played in the last, say, 5 years?

If the answer is no, my point about him is irrefutable (because it means he has no idea of how well he actually plays statistically).

And all of you have a standing invitation to come play limit with me in Southern California. I am the real deal.

To be fair I don't think I'm a factor in limit holdem anymore, i do think I am going out there in October would love to go Play in southen Cali with you, A friend just got back and heard nothing but good things about the action

[thaskalos]

A simple question that can get at the issue here. Does Thas know how many hours of live poker he has played in the last, say, 5 years?

If the answer is no, my point about him is irrefutable (because it means he has no idea of how well he actually plays statistically.

I have played 5,500 hours of live poker over the last five years...and I have a pretty good idea of how well I play. I also spend a significant amount of time working on my game AWAY from the table...to ensure that my "poker knowledge" remains as current as possible.

And you'll never see me declaring that I am the "real deal". I find that it is only significant when such comments about us are uttered by OTHERS...who know what we do, and how we do it. What a player says about himself means nothing of consequence...IMO.

PS--

I will be relocating to Las Vegas in 5 weeks; in fact...I am packing as we speak. The poker acquaintance between the two of us is virtually guaranteed.

[thaskalos]

A simple question that can get at the issue here. Does Thas know how many hours of live poker he has played in the last, say, 5 years?

If the answer is no, my point about him is irrefutable (because it means he has no idea of how well he actually plays statistically).


If you were as attentive as you THINK you are, then you would know that it was I who suggested to Proximity, at the very start of this thread (post #9), that he should keep an hourly record of his playing time at the table. Would I have suggested that to him if I didn't do that myself?

NOW do you see why I say that you don't really listen to what others say here...choosing instead to concentrate only on your own amusing replies?

[dilanesp]

If you were as attentive as you THINK you are, then you would know that it was I who suggested to Proximity, at the very start of this thread (post #9), that he should keep an hourly record of his playing time at the table. Would I have suggested that to him if I didn't do that myself?

One has little to do with the other, Thas.

So, what's the exact number of hours you have played in the last 5 years (or some similar period)? 5500 is a round number. Should just be a sum function on a spreadsheet (as it is for me) or a quick look at your tracking software.

[dilanesp]

I have played 5,500 hours of live poker over the last five years...and I have a pretty good idea of how well I play. I also spend a significant amount of time working on my game AWAY from the table...to ensure that my "poker knowledge" remains as current as possible.

And you'll never see me declaring that I am the "real deal". I find that it is only significant when such comments about us are uttered by OTHERS...who know what we do, and how we do it. What a player says about himself means nothing of consequence...IMO.

PS--

I will be relocating to Las Vegas in 5 weeks; in fact...I am packing as we speak. The poker acquaintance between the two of us is virtually guaranteed.

Good luck in Vegas, Thas.

[thaskalos]

One has little to do with the other, Thas.

So, what's the exact number of hours you have played in the last 5 years (or some similar period)? 5500 is a round number. Should just be a sum function on a spreadsheet (as it is for me) or a quick look at your tracking software.

What's yours? I have played exactly 5,500 hours.

[proximity]

I will be relocating to Las Vegas in 5 weeks; in fact...I am packing as we speak. The poker acquaintance between the two of us is virtually guaranteed.

guess i better start packing for my morning flight!! :eek:

can you tell us more?

like where do you think most of your play will be??

[Red Knave]

guess i better start packing for my morning flight!! :eek:

All the best Proximity.

[dilanesp]

What's yours? I have played exactly 5,500 hours.

Stored in my current phone is 2446.5 hours since March 17, 2014. I would need to pull up my archived databases to go back further.

[proximity]

All the best Proximity.

thank you and thank YOU.

you were very helpful with suggestions about this trip and even going all the way back to when i was going for caesar's diamond the first time.

you said it would be worth it for me.

it was!!!

[thaskalos]

guess i better start packing for my morning flight!! :eek:

can you tell us more?

like where do you think most of your play will be??

I have bought a condo right on the Las Vegas strip...and I plan to go where the poker action is; mostly the Bellagio and the Aria.

[proximity]

I have bought a condo right on the Las Vegas strip....

the great real estate agent roy cooke wasn't involved in the deal was he? :)

[thaskalos]

the great real estate agent roy cooke wasn't involved in the deal was he? :)

No...but when I run into him, I'll relay dilanesp's regards.

[proximity]

No...but when I run into him, I'll relay dilanesp's regards.

i plan on taking his whole bankroll and telling him to "learn the math" if he sits at ten. otherwise it's up to you to take him at 2/5!! :)

[dilanesp]

No...but when I run into him, I'll relay dilanesp's regards.

I'm sad he found it so difficult to beat the limit games at Bellagio that he had to switch over to no limit. I was always happy to play against someone who had read his bad advice in Card Player. :)

[Donttellmeshowme]

I have bought a condo right on the Las Vegas strip...and I plan to go where the poker action is; mostly the Bellagio and the Aria.



So are you going to play poker for a living? Maybe you already do im just asking.

[thaskalos]

So are you going to play poker for a living?

Too early to tell...I'll have to see how it goes. In a few years, I'll either ply my trade in Bobby's Room...or I'll head back to Chicago in the dark of night.

[dilanesp]

Too early to tell...I'll have to see how it goes. In a few years, I'll either ply my trade in Bobby's Room...or I'll head back to Chicago in the dark of night.

Thas, that binary is not a good way to think about playing professionally.

Above a certain limit, there are very few good games available and they are only good sporadically. Which means almost nobody is really sure whether they are beating those games or just outrunning variance for awhile.

Meanwhile a lot of people take shots in those games with inadequate bankrolls and get wiped out. Indeed, the really nosebleed-level pros I know are often scrounging around for funding and staking.

The really successful pros I know tend to stay away from that level and simply find a more modest level where there are always good games and play a ton of hours and grind out a good income. In limit, for instance, you will find far more successful pros playing 2000 or more hours of 20-40 up to 80-160, year after year, than you will find in the 500-1000 games that occasionally show up.

So you really don't have to move up to Bobby's room at all. If you are a good enough no limit player, you can play in the midstakes 5-5 and 5-10 and 10-20 games which regularly go, either in Vegas or in Southern California, and make very decent money doing it. And avoid the possibility of playing too high and either getting wiped out or getting stuck in games that really aren't that good a lot of the time.

Just find a limit you can beat, be properly rolled and disciplined, and play a ton of hours. Don't worry about the nosebleeds-- they are poker's version of the sucker bet.

[thaskalos]

Thas, that binary is not a good way to think about playing professionally.

Above a certain limit, there are very few good games available and they are only good sporadically. Which means almost nobody is really sure whether they are beating those games or just outrunning variance for awhile.

Meanwhile a lot of people take shots in those games with inadequate bankrolls and get wiped out. Indeed, the really nosebleed-level pros I know are often scrounging around for funding and staking.

The really successful pros I know tend to stay away from that level and simply find a more modest level where there are always good games and play a ton of hours and grind out a good income. In limit, for instance, you will find far more successful pros playing 2000 or more hours of 20-40 up to 80-160, year after year, than you will find in the 500-1000 games that occasionally show up.

So you really don't have to move up to Bobby's room at all. If you are a good enough no limit player, you can play in the midstakes 5-5 and 5-10 and 10-20 games which regularly go, either in Vegas or in Southern California, and make very decent money doing it. And avoid the possibility of playing too high and either getting wiped out or getting stuck in games that really aren't that good a lot of the time.

Just find a limit you can beat, be properly rolled and disciplined, and play a ton of hours. Don't worry about the nosebleeds-- they are poker's version of the sucker bet.

I was only joking with that Bobby's Room remark. I will be 55 years old this November...and time isn't on my side as far as wild aspirations of this sort are concerned. In fact...at this stage of my life, grinding for a ton of hours in order to secure a good income doesn't appeal to me much. The truth be told...SPORTS betting is the main reason for my decision to move to Vegas. I have developed a liking for betting baseball and basketball, and I have reason to believe that I could derive a good investment return from those venues...if a hospitable climate for this sort of betting avails itself to me. That's where Vegas comes in.

As gamblers go, I am an anomaly of sorts. I am not a "specialist", as other "successful" gamblers appear to be...nor do I have an affinity for any one particular gambling game. I bet horses, sports, poker...and even trade commodity futures when the mood strikes. Wherever I perceive an edge...I am there. I believe that even the gamblers ought to live "balanced lives". :)

[dilanesp]

I was only joking with that Bobby's Room remark. I will be 55 years old this November...and time isn't on my side as far as wild aspirations of this sort are concerned. In fact...at this stage of my life, grinding for a ton of hours in order to secure a good income doesn't appeal to me much. The truth be told...SPORTS betting is the main reason for my decision to move to Vegas. I have developed a liking for betting baseball and basketball, and I have reason to believe that I could derive a good investment return from those venues...if a hospitable climate for this sort of betting avails itself to me. That's where Vegas comes in.

As gamblers go, I am an anomaly of sorts. I am not a "specialist", as other "successful" gamblers appear to be...nor do I have an affinity for any one particular gambling game. I bet horses, sports, poker...and even trade commodity futures when the mood strikes. Wherever I perceive an edge...I am there. I believe that even the gamblers ought to live "balanced lives". :)

Well, if I were a good sports bettor (I am not and basically never bet on sports other than horse racing), I could definitely see the appeal of moving to Vegas.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Proximity where you at? He might be busy winning too much money in Vegas to report back here.

[tucker6]

Proximity where you at? He might be busy winning too much money in Vegas to report back here.
Maybe he's in the kitchen paying for his lunch.

[PaceAdvantage]

I have bought a condo right on the Las Vegas strip...and I plan to go where the poker action is; mostly the Bellagio and the Aria.You're the man Gus...I hope nothing but the best for you out west. :ThmbUp:

[proximity]

Too early to tell...I'll have to see how it goes. In a few years, I'll either ply my trade in Bobby's Room...or I'll head back to Chicago in the dark of night.

from what i saw you should do fine. nice combination of pure tourists and semi to half decent players.

sports betting isn't my bailiwick, and maybe it was just a coincidence, but there were a couple occasions where i was quite impressed by the "smart" money.

saw some condos for sale by aria/cosmo.... is that you? :cool:

[ReplayRandall]

from what i saw you should do fine. nice combination of pure tourists and semi to half decent players.

sports betting isn't my bailiwick, and maybe it was just a coincidence, but there were a couple occasions where i was quite impressed by the "smart" money.

saw some condos for sale by aria/cosmo.... is that you? :cool:

Proxy, what happened to you, since you left for Vegas on August 9th? Where were the updates of your trip? Why are you making the above post, when we're expecting details of your 10-20 exploits from the tables in Vegas?...:confused:

[proximity]

Proxy, what happened to you, since you left for Vegas on August 9th? Where were the updates of your trip? Why are you making the above post, when we're expecting details of your 10-20 exploits from the tables in Vegas?...:confused:

i took some notes on my phone and will start to piece together the reports when i get some free time here.

i didn't get to play 10/20. it wasn't even close to going on most days. saturday it seemed like it was close to going and then sunday it finally went but i was over at the mirage and just walked in as the game was breaking.

overall vegas was a great experience that i recommend to everyone here. :)

[proximity]

everything that happens in the reports is basically true. names or player descriptions are frequently changed to protect the innocent.... and sometimes the not so innocent. ;)


ok, i'm almost ready to begin.

in the spirit of "what happens in vegas, stays in vegas" i've posted the above quote from the beginning of the thread.

before we start ripping each other's guts out i'd like to emphasize that this was a MUCH NEEDED VACATION.

sun, relaxation, and gambling were the priorities IN THAT ORDER.

i will try to post how i, PROXIMITY, found vegas to be which may differ from your own experiences and tastes.

it is not my intention to offend anyone with my blu pool comments. some of our posters may be thinking "get your perverted mind out of the gutter" while others will be asking how housekeeping didn't find me tied up and handcuffed, naked, backwards, and upside down several days later? now maybe that did happen but i will try to keep things somewhere between a pg and r rating. maybe a little of what happens in vegas, stays in vegas goes for ol' proximity too? ;)

as always thank you for reading and for all of your posts that make paceadvantage such a great gambling site!!!!!!!!!

---proximity

[RunForTheRoses]

ok, i'm almost ready to begin.

in the spirit of "what happens in vegas, stays in vegas" i've posted the above quote from the beginning of the thread.

before we start ripping each other's guts out i'd like to emphasize that this was a MUCH NEEDED VACATION.

sun, relaxation, and gambling were the priorities IN THAT ORDER.

i will try to post how i, PROXIMITY, found vegas to be which may differ from your own experiences and tastes.

it is not my intention to offend anyone with my blu pool comments. some of our posters may be thinking "get your perverted mind out of the gutter" while others will be asking how housekeeping didn't find me tied up and handcuffed, naked, backwards, and upside down several days later? now maybe that did happen but i will try to keep things somewhere between a pg and r rating. maybe a little of what happens in vegas, stays in vegas goes for ol' proximity too? ;)

as always thank you for reading and for all of your posts that make paceadvantage such a great gambling site!!!!!!!!!

---proximity

What happens in Pahrump stays in Pahrump Bro!

[proximity]

What happens in Pahrump stays in Pahrump Bro!

in his classic gambling book blackjack autumn our great paceadvantage brother bmeadow just "tasted the wine" there!! :)

[proximity]

after weeks of planning, dreaming, and reading countless posts on vegasmessageboard.com it's finally wednesday morning and i'm ready to depart on my non-stop united flight to LAS VEGAS!!!

i select an aisle seat for this flight and i'm sitting beside "wang" from caddyshack. actually, i sit beside wang's wife who spills green tea on me about halfway though the flight while wang's in the window seat taking pictures of clouds. when i'm not getting up so the wang's can take leaks :rolleyes: i read some previews of top teams like the colts and steelers in a football magazine i brought along and get some extra sleep. i have a feeling i'm going to need it.

finally after a little more than four hours we begin to descend and las vegas comes into view. wang is furiously snapping pictures at the window and his wife leans forward and i lean forward a little more to catch a glimpse.

suddenly las vegas comes into view, rising out of the sand like a mirage.... or maybe THE mirage. how many people over the years have seen this view and thought.... here is where i'll make my fortune. not many people have made that fortune, though many have lost one. what dreams this view must have evoked, and what disappointments must have followed. ------ barry meadow, blackjack autumn (9-17-98)

after landing i take a taxi to bally's and don't get "long-hauled." inside there's a special diamond check-in room and although it's only about 11:00 am in vegas and i'm staying eight nights i decide to see if i can check-in early.
it's no problem and i'm sent right up to my king room on the 24th floor of the indigo tower. i've been in nicer rooms recently in atlantic city but the room is clean, spacious, and comfortable. i have no complaints.

my first order of business is to bet the phillies. there's an afternoon game at the dodgers and i'm surprised to see we're +190 with hellickson pitching? i bet us to win the whole game (there's five inning lines and 1.5 run lines) and go outside to investigate.

my first impression is that las vegas isn't that much different from home. i see more penn state shirts than any other college and WAY more steelers shirts than any other nfl team...... with the raiders a distant second. just like home there's a cvs right on the corner and i buy some sunscreen and water.

bally's has a food court with a johnny rockets, asian, nathan's hotdogs, subway, and sbarro. i start off with an orange chicken and mixed vegetables at the asian counter. no rice because i want to keep my "abs" for the....

BLU POOL

the phillies quickly fall behind 1-0 as i head out for my first day at the bally's blu pool. after spending countless hours reading trip advisor, vegasmessageboard, and other sites i was worried that the blu pool would be rather tame with just me and a few seniors lounging around. maybe other vegas pools are better but there turned out to be plenty of eye candy most days at the blu pool, which easily exceeded my expectations.

resort guests can reserve lounge chairs for $10 but i never did and never had a problem getting one any day of the trip.

i'd say this video represents a below average day at blu pool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9wzq67DPFo

overall there were plenty of better girls with smaller bikinis!!

back inside bally's the phillies have turned things around, erupting for a 6-2 win after kazmir left the game for l.a.!!

the win moves me to 1-0 lifetime in my baseball "career." :D

after doing a little more exploring however the gambling takes a bad turn.

i drop $95 on blackjack at bally's and head over to flamingo to try to start possibly grinding twelve hours of poker to qualify for friday's free roll.

i might be able to use my diamond card to move to the top of a medium sized list at flamingo but always found the practice to be rude and elect to play some more blackjack.

flamingo has some beautiful girls dealing at this $10 table but everything else about the game is ugly. pathetic 6/5 blackjacks all over this greatest of gambling cities? even out of continuous shufflers? you could at least stand on soft 17s. even hollywood casinos have better games than this! :bang:

i start out doing ok playing with a (shocker) steelers fan from atlanta before a drunk green bay fan enters the game and starts loudly expressing his every thought. meanwhile (to steal a line from barry meadow) the dealer's pulling out more dead hands than a grave robber. i lose another $192 to be down nearly $300 for the day.

back over at bally's things don't start much better. i'm down another $100 on blackjack before suddenly mounting a furious rally to pull back ahead for the day with a +$307 session!!

before calling it a night i try to find earl of sandwich over at planet hollywood. i can't find this place (it is there) but take a good walk around the casino and mall area. it's amazing that i'm finally here in vegas! what a great idea!!!!! :cool:

[Tall One]

I have bought a condo right on the Las Vegas strip...and I plan to go where the poker action is; mostly the Bellagio and the Aria.




Remember you mentioning this as a possibility awhile back...Good stuff, Thaskalos... :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[tucker6]

Prox, your story telling is grade A. :ThmbUp:

I agree with you about your video. There's better candy at most pools. I was kinda disappointed.

[RunForTheRoses]

Great to read this Vegas trip report. I really loathe flying, may one day spring for 1st class as sitting with the hoi poloi is the pits, planes are germ factories with people coughing and sneezing all over you, tugging on the seat back, constantly getting upto leak...but to get out to west coast in 5 hours there is no other way.
Ballys is cool with that in the back, separate R ans S book. I did go to Earl of Sandwich last time, its near the poker and was pretty good. PH has some nice black jack dealers scantily clad.

Did you go to In and Out Burger? Valley of Fire or Red Rock Canyon?

[barn32]

I don't know a thing about proximity...I go strictly by what he writes on this board. And he hasn't posted ANYTHING that would make me think that he is currently "properly rolled" for a 10/20 game. I would have thought that a "highly perceptive" poker player such as yourself would have realized this as well. But then again...maybe you choose to concentrate on your amusing replies...instead of paying close attention to what other posters have to say.
You need a $180,000 bankroll to play 10-20 No Limit Hold'em for a living.

If you're talking about 10-20 limit Hold'em you need about a $64,000 bankroll.

[dilanesp]

You need a $180,000 bankroll to play 10-20 No Limit Hold'em for a living.

If you're talking about 10-20 limit Hold'em you need about a $64,000 bankroll.

The second statement is wrong. There are certainly debates about how much you need, but as long as the bankroll is untouchable (i.e., you don't pay your living expenses out of it), $7,500 at 10-20 sets your risk of ruin at very close to zero. Downswings of more than 375BB are incredibly rare among good limit players.

If you want to say you need $10,000, or even $15,000, I wouldn't argue. But $64,000 is 3200BB. That's ridiculous.

[thaskalos]

It all depends on what is really meant by "playing poker for a living". If it means that the poker player's entire income is to be earned at the poker table...then, IMO, a simple "bankroll" isn't enough. As a no limit "professional" with no additional income...I would also need at least 6 months living expenses to be put aside from the outset...in order to ensure that my bills get paid on a regular basis, without any undue stress. And if the player is of the more "aggressive" variety, or has a family to support...then a YEAR'S living expenses put aside from the start is advisable.

[barn32]

It all depends on what is really meant by "playing poker for a living". If it means that the poker player's entire income is to be earned at the poker table...then, IMO, a simple "bankroll" isn't enough. As a no limit "professional" with no additional income...I would also need at least 6 months living expenses to be put aside from the outset...in order to ensure that my bills get paid on a regular basis, without any undue stress. And if the player is of the more "aggressive" variety, or has a family to support...then a YEAR'S living expenses put aside from the start is advisable.1 years living expenses is part of my formula.

[dilanesp]

It all depends on what is really meant by "playing poker for a living". If it means that the poker player's entire income is to be earned at the poker table...then, IMO, a simple "bankroll" isn't enough. As a no limit "professional" with no additional income...I would also need at least 6 months living expenses to be put aside from the outset...in order to ensure that my bills get paid on a regular basis, without any undue stress. And if the player is of the more "aggressive" variety, or has a family to support...then a YEAR'S living expenses put aside from the start is advisable.

I 100 percent agree with this. (Indeed, I would say a year, not six months. Downswings can last six months.) But that's usually a separate concept from "bankroll", which is what you need to play.

[proximity]

Prox, your story telling is grade A. :ThmbUp:

I agree with you about your video. There's better candy at most pools. I was kinda disappointed.

thanks tucker!! i remember most of the days pretty well. it was sad at the end when i got the text that i could check in for my flight home but it was a great trip and i'm excited to go back!!!

[proximity]

Great to read this Vegas trip report. I really loathe flying, may one day spring for 1st class as sitting with the hoi poloi is the pits, planes are germ factories with people coughing and sneezing all over you, tugging on the seat back, constantly getting upto leak...but to get out to west coast in 5 hours there is no other way.
Ballys is cool with that in the back, separate R ans S book. I did go to Earl of Sandwich last time, its near the poker and was pretty good. PH has some nice black jack dealers scantily clad.

Did you go to In and Out Burger? Valley of Fire or Red Rock Canyon?

thanks run4! the flight wasn't as bad as i made it sound. the wang's were actually pretty nice people. there were a lot of pool players on the plane heading out for a big tournament and even the following week i still saw people carrying around cases with their cues.

"in and out" was on my unofficial itinerary but i forgot about it and then i even forgot that i forgot..... so thanks for reminding me so hopefully i won't miss it next time. :)

[proximity]

a couple things i will mention (without spoiling the daily reports):

(1) for the most part i thought the people there were really nice. the one big exception was that they were kind of inconsiderate to drivers trying to pull in and out of some of the little alleys/driveways on the strip. i wouldn't want to drive there.... especially at night!!

(2) there were a lot of homeless people there but they weren't pushy at all and FAR less obnoxious than in atlantic city. some were even entertaining. one guy had a sign that said "just looking at butts." :D ONE day a kid (not sure if he was even homeless) asked me for the odd amount of 49 cents but that was it.

[tucker6]

thanks tucker!! i remember most of the days pretty well. it was sad at the end when i got the text that i could check in for my flight home but it was a great trip and i'm excited to go back!!!
Hopefully it recharged your batteries. They were getting low lately.

[proximity]

we are up early on thursday morning and ready to head outside and explore south strip!!

my pre-trip studies reveal the presence of several denny's restaurants in town but as i approach the south strip franchise i see that my plan to grab an original grandslam is far from an original idea. the line is literally out the door!!

in my travels to mandalay bay i make a mistake as continue on the east side of the strip past tropicana instead of crossing at mgm grand and going through nyny, excalibur, and luxor to get to mandalay.

my errant path does yield a good view though as it puts me behind three young ladies..... one of which is practically naked under her long t-shirt that i can see right through!!

the first prostitutes i see in town??

NO!! they're european girls speaking a language i don't recognize!!

mandalay bay is quiet but beautifully landscaped outside and dark but elegant inside. luxor seemed even darker but i thought it was kinda neat how you could see up to each level of rooms from inside the pyramid.

to me excalibur was the pleasant surprise of the trip.

going in, i didn't think i'd like this place but i ended up loving it. their castle walk food court had plenty of familiar and inexpensive options including popeyes, pizza hut express, breakfast & burgers, and a favorite from home; tropical smoothie cafe.

despite its medieval theme excalibur, as jean girard said of ricky bobby's kiss, "tasted of america".... and that was fine with me!!

another thing i loved about excalibur was the central location of the poker room. there wasn't any action going yet but a nice floor woman (yone?) gave me a sheet about their tournaments and (ahem..) SPREAD LIMIT GAME...which i KNEW i would absolutely have to play!!

newyork newyork was bright and clean and i was shocked to find some $5 blackjack. the food smelled great although i was still working on my tropical smoothie from excalibur so i just continued on to monte carlo which was a little smaller than i thought and is supposedly soon undergoing a name change.

aria was set back a little off the strip and i skipped it until later in the trip. classy place though.

blu pool

back at the blu pool where our star of the day is an incredible european milf whose amazing body really put the younger girls to shame. her diminutive bikini left little to the imagination but i did marvel about how she popped out her child..... who fortunately made her stay at the blu pool for hours and hours!! another day that was better than these youtube videos and web reviews led me to believe but this woman was really the star of the show. :cool:

poker..... east coast represent!!

today's beef and broccoli at the asian counter wasn't that good and i head over to the flamingo to dip my toes in the vegas poker waters.

i'm in 2/4 limit company and playing beside a nice dealer from atlantic city but find myself rather card dead.

eventually i strike with a set of jacks. the river show a board of j3265 so any four beats me but we're heads up and i see the villain holding the chips over the line ready to call. this seems like the case jack to me so i bet for value and he indeed makes the call and doesn't show when i table the jacks.

later though with QQ the same villain has 85 (limped early) on a flop of 88x. someone says he got lucky but he says that i got lucky with the set of jacks because he had pocket aces..... although i did ALL of the raising and betting in the hand!!

overall i'm pretty card dead but hold on for a $14 win in my first las vegas poker action!!

after yesterday's $192 drubbing i feel like "buckner walking back into shea" when i sit at a flamingo blackjack table but i grind out a $20 win to complete another small winning day of gambling.

back across flamingo road i walk around paris and back at bally's i grab a slice of pizza at sbarro.... i'm not a big pizza eater but i find this much better than our pennsylvania turnpike sbarro's. :)

game +14 (2/4)
trip +14 (1-0)
kk 0-0 (0-0)

[tucker6]

back at the blu pool where our star of the day is an incredible european milf whose amazing body really put the younger girls to shame. her diminutive bikini left little to the imagination but i did marvel about how she popped out her child..... who fortunately made her stay at the blu pool for hours and hours!! another day that was better than these youtube videos and web reviews led me to believe but this woman was really the star of the show. :cool:

You give us a video of the not so nice blu pool one day, and then stiff us on a video when you describe the "star of the show" the next. Putz comes to mind.

[tucker6]

after yesterday's $192 drubbing i feel like "buckner walking back into shea" when i sit at a flamingo blackjack table but i grind out a $20 win to complete another small winning day of gambling.


I thought you eked out a $7 win the first day?

[proximity]

You give us a video of the not so nice blu pool one day, and then stiff us on a video when you describe the "star of the show" the next. Putz comes to mind.

sorry to disappoint t6 but i hafta be careful what i post as i'm currently "1a" here to shemp howard's "1" and can't afford to be banned because i'm just too damn old to join mr sklansky's romper room site.

like here, those boys only date dimes, but they also never have losing months. an honest poster there is one with a new screen name.

[proximity]

I thought you eked out a $7 win the first day?

day one:

baseball
phillies +19

blackjack
bally's -95
flamingo -192
bally's +307

[tucker6]

sorry to disappoint t6 but i hafta be careful what i post as i'm currently "1a" here to shemp howard's "1" and can't afford to be banned because i'm just too damn old to join mr sklansky's romper room site.

like here, those boys only date dimes, but they also never have losing months. an honest poster there is one with a new screen name.
I can't imagine that you are near Pace's cut line. I can name 10 off the top of my head that play over the line and they're still here. Anyway, I was just razzing you.

[proximity]

I can't imagine that you are near Pace's cut line. I can name 10 off the top of my head that play over the line and they're still here. Anyway, I was just razzing you.

it's all in good fun, speaking of which stay tuned for our "day 3" report later tonight.

hope everyone has enjoyed the first two days!! :)

[thaskalos]

it's all in good fun, speaking of which stay tuned for our "day 3" report later tonight.

hope everyone has enjoyed the first two days!! :)

A $307 turnaround at Bally's...and nary a word about it?

[proximity]

A $307 turnaround at Bally's...and nary a word about it?

more than that because i started down about $100.

$15 tables at night so not an uncommon swing though.

[barn32]

I just walked through the Orleans and there were five 1-3 no-limit games going.

They also have a $78,000 jackpot, if you're so inclined.

[dilanesp]

I just walked through the Orleans and there were five 1-3 no-limit games going.

They also have a $78,000 jackpot, if you're so inclined.

Last time I was in Vegas, I was forced to play at Orleans because my friends were staying there. So I played some of their NL. The action was quite good and as you note, they have the jackpot. Certainly was nothing wrong with it if you are into low stakes no limit.

[barn32]

Last time I was in Vegas, I was forced to play at Orleans because my friends were staying there. So I played some of their NL. The action was quite good and as you note, they have the jackpot. Certainly was nothing wrong with it if you are into low stakes no limit.They also have twice daily tournaments in the $75-$125 range with a weekly high points prize, and if you play enough hours there are periodic free-rolls for cash game players.

Not sure but I think their player comps are either $1 or $2 an hour.

[proximity]

ok poker fans, i can't believe it but we are back in exciting las vegas for day number three of our annual poker vacation!!

today we explore north strip.

i skip over the cromwell, flamingo, and linq and begin my north strip tour with harrah's. i was expecting a solid property here but was disappointed and felt this harrah's fell well short of its atlantic city brother. casino royale also failed to impress but sands property the venetian was another story. i found the venetian to be a good looking, spacious, and well lit casino. most of the poker room was curtained off but it was still open and seemed to be one of the town's larger rooms?

i skip the palazzo and come to the nicest casino i've ever seen: the wynn. the wynn featured beautiful landscaping outside and inside with an amazing flower carousel and flower garden. two prostitutes loitering on some slot machines (one with her goods hanging out) seem out of place there and the poker room seemed kinda like an afterthought but overall a great property!!

i assume the encore is just another wynn tower (?) and don't go in it.

across the street i find the treasure island to be uninspiring. i was expecting better. the mirage was smaller than i thought but bright and energetic. i liked it. i didn't like caesar's palace at first but as i approached the race and sports book section it started to grow on me. of course an earl of sandwich in the food court secures it a passing grade from this corner!!

back at bally's i grab the phillies at +125 hosting the rockies and the colts +2.5 visiting the bills.

BLU POOL

one of the weaker days at the blu pool.

there are two hotties behind me and one younger latina that seems to be checking me out (she's only about a "six", nothing you james bond types here would be into) but unfortunately i lose track of her. the water "features" some drunk grandmas. (you definitely don't want a video of this t6) they're about my age but i seem so much younger. if life has passed me by, then so be it i guess?

hang in there blu pool fans, things will get better!! ;)

POKER

two games today and we begin at the bellagio where we hope to battle the great roy cooke in 10/20 limit action. :D there are only two players on the 10/20 list though and one of them drops off. the game isn't going to go and i jump into a 4/8 limit with 1/2 kill contest.

i strike quickly with 96s in my first big blind flopping a straight and easily holding on to win the pot. when 85 flops two pair from my next big blind, i win again and move out to about a $70 lead.

overall though i'm again pretty card dead. i grab a win with QQ before losing twice with KJ. 66 is between middle and bottom pair but i'm leading a husband and wife team and bet both the flop and turn.

"i think they're tag teaming you" the dealer surprisingly says after the turn and he may have been right as the husband tables a hand he really shouldn't have stayed with after the wife rivers the winning flush and i check behind them. i guess it didn't make a difference in that particular hand since she wasn't going anywhere with an ace high flush draw, but......

anyhow, outside of the blinds those are about the only hands i get in the entire game and i eventually quit ahead $28 when it starts to get short.

outside i see that the underdog phillies have won again but i can't find the colts score? (eventually i learn that the game is actually on saturday, but luckily have locked in the +2.5 as colts money will eventually drive it down to +0.5 by kickoff.)

after the bellagio game i have an itch that needs to be scratched and wander down to excalibur to see if this 2-6 spread limit is going?

it is and there's one seat open. the manager looks at me like i have two heads when i say $200 red (instead of $100 white) but they'll see i mean business in the very first hand when i look down at JJ from the cutoff.

two players have limped after the single $2 blind that this great game features and the hijack raises to $8. i reraise to $14 and fold out the blind but surprisingly both limpers call as does the hijack.

flop: QXX and i fire out $6 when everyone checks to me.

everyone calls but i still sense that i'm ahead and fire out another six after a blank falls on the turn.

everyone calls again and i start to get concerned and am even more concerned when a king on the river puts another overcard on the board and gets an "oh no" from the second limper..... giving me the impression that he has the queen.

i check behind everyone but the jacks are good!!

later i get another win with 77 but unfortunately this game breaks rather quickly. i bag a $78 win and vow to return!!

blackjack

it's been a perfect day so far with the phillies, bellagio, and excalibur wins.

over at new york new york however things will take a turn for the worse at a $10 blackjack table.

again i thought the people were really nice here but tonight the only thing more miserable than our apathetic dealer is the cards she's flipping over. eventually i have enough of this girl and just pick up my chips and move to another table with a happier dealer. playing heads up i quickly start to mount a comeback but when other players enter the game things slow down and i hit another bad swing. i get down about $300 but rally late to get back within $60 but after a couple more bad hands decide to call it a session at -$95.

overall another small winning day in vegas!!

poker

bellagio +28 (4/8*)
trip +42 (2-0)
kk 0-0 (0-0)

excalibur +78 (2/6**)
trip +120 (3-0)
kk 0-0 (0-0)

[tucker6]

It was hard to read through your latest story after you admitted betting a preseason game. What kind of degenerate bets that? :D

[proximity]

It was hard to read through your latest story after you admitted betting a preseason game. What kind of degenerate bets that? :D

the house took such a pounding that the lights flickered when we stopped buffalo's two point conversion!! there are a lot of us sickos out there! :D

[Red Knave]

the house took such a pounding that the lights flickered
Classic. :)

[dilanesp]

It was hard to read through your latest story after you admitted betting a preseason game. What kind of degenerate bets that? :D

In my experience, every football bettor.

And it's seriously degenerate (though proximity gets a pass because he was on vacation :) ). People are actually betting on games that the coaches and players are not trying to win, because they lack the discipline, patience, and self-control to wait a few weeks for the regular season to start.

[proximity]

In my experience, every football bettor.

And it's seriously degenerate (though proximity gets a pass because he was on vacation :) ). People are actually betting on games that the coaches and players are not trying to win, because they lack the discipline, patience, and self-control to wait a few weeks for the regular season to start.

as a colts fan we sometimes wonder if pagano's trying to win the regular season games too, so..... :)

[proximity]

ok poker fans we are back in exciting las vegas and up early so we can get a chair on this special saturday at.....

BLU POOL

again no problem getting a free chair although i do see several with "reserved" signs on them.

it's a calm morning at the pool and i'm on my lounge chair reading about the afc west when i decide to jump in the pool. i'm relaxing over at the edge when suddenly a group of young lonestar cuties enter the pool. it's been a little over 100 all week but the temperature suddenly rises towards 110 and the blu pool starts to bubble when one member of the group who looks better than selena gomez and jennifer lopez combined enters the water!! i'll probably dream of this goddess wading through those blu pool waters until my final day. i hope i do. she should be on the new dallas breaking the hearts of both john ross and christopher ewing. even j.r. and cliff barnes could've agreed on her beauty!!

i'm talking to one member of the group who looks like a younger hilary swank. (was she wearing a bikini or a saddle cloth? i can hear t6 thinking :) )
i think i'm "mr big" with my total rewards diamond card but the lifeguard blows her whistle anytime a non seven stars member gets within ten feet of selena lopez. rumor is you have to be a seven stars member who crushes 80/160 limit or above to get within two yards of this dimepiece. i think only phil ivey, doug donkey, lawdude, and sklansky himself qualify? but imagine the lifeguard immediately going to her whistle if sklansky would even enter the water.....

anyhow, planning a double blu pool session i say goodbye to the next karate kid and scratch another itch by taking a walk down flamingo road to....

SILVER SEVENS....

i wonder if any diamond (and now mlife gold!!) members like to slum it up more than me when i take a walk down flamingo road to silver sevens?

this is a smaller property, maybe a brighter version of maryland's rocky gap sans the lake, golf course, and hiking trails. there's a 2/4 limit game that's going short handed and i decide to grab some lunch and wait for it to fill up a little.

upstairs i eat a nice turkey dinner but downstairs the game is still short so i play some $5 blackjack.... which OMG :rolleyes: is actually 3/2!!!!! :rolleyes:

our first dealer is possibly the slowest blackjack dealer in the world. he's so slow that i could've walked halfway back to bally's between hands. they probably get more hands per hour at the poker table than what this guy deals. amazing. the next dealer is actually pretty good but the poker game seems to be filling up so i color up ahead by $20.

POKER (2/4 lim, silver 7s)

i strike quickly in this one winning with QQ and then KK in my very first two hands at the table!!

other than that however, i'm again rather card dead and this game never really gets strong. one player is doing a lot of raising and i think this is maybe one of those spots where he should ease off a little bit before he ends up breaking the game?

with KQ i flop trip queens and pound the table when j2s rivers a flush on me. :blush: (calm down proximity!! it's just silver sevens!!)

later though i "redeem myself" with KQs and quit with a $10 win when the game starts to get short again for like the umpteenth time.

back at bally's i already have my colts ticket but get the underdog phillies again and go upstairs to get ready for the second half of my blu pool doubleheader.

unfortunately i'm starting to get a bad headache though and just end up collapsing on the bed. hours later the headache won't go away. i walk over to bellagio and see a "ten" interest list but go back to bally's and take another bayer. when i finally feel better i decide to spend my vegas saturday night at a strip club on the way to silver sevens callled club platinum.


CLUB PLATINUM

there's no cover charge at club platinum and i get an inexpensive drink at the bar. this is the highlight though. no one is naked or even topless. one guy is getting a "dance" along a dark wall. i wait awhile for someone to take the stage but i'm wasting my time. maybe i didn't stay long enough but club platinum doesn't even merit a james harrison participation trophy, let alone vegas gold. on the way back to bally's though i decide to checkout.....

TUSCANY

another small "rocky gap" size casino on flamingo road. there's no poker but like silver sevens tuscany has 3/2 $5 blackjack and i end up settling in for the rest of the night sipping free drinks while trying to finish above even.

it's a pretty relaxed atmosphere at tuscany but at one point seemingly the whole casino is distracted by a gorgeous girl in a tight red dress that is rolling craps. high priced escort at the tuscany?? she's more beautiful than sharon stone's "ginger" character in casino as everyone's head is turned to see if her tremendous tatas will stay in the dress as she rolls!!

this has to be some kind of croupier-esque distraction i think and i guard my wallet closely. but at the tuscany? the thieves are going to grab a bunch of greens out of the tray??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

in the end i drop $12 at tuscany but at least got 3/2s...

poker

silver sevens +10 (2/4)
trip +130 (4-0)
kk 1-0 (1-0)

[proximity]

sorry to interrupt the thread when we're only halfway through the vegas trip but thought i'd post this link to a thread on vmb about post vegas trip depression:

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/post-vegas-trip-depression.134304/

do i have the post trip depression along with the urge to go back??

ABSOLUTELY!!!

[charm city whizz]

Give me the dogs I can care less what season it is in NFL.......if u can do your homework preseason may have more +EV then regular season

[RunForTheRoses]

Give me the dogs I can care less what season it is in NFL.......if u can do your homework preseason may have more +EV then regular season

Yeah, I know back in the day if you studied you could make money betting preseason NFL. I think Marv Levy always tried, Parcells either the same or the opposite I forget. But it was a moneymaking opportunity.