2016 Poker Discussion Thread [Archive] - Page 3 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

dilanesp

08-25-2016, 04:55 PM

Yeah, I know back in the day if you studied you could make money betting preseason NFL. I think Marv Levy always tried, Parcells either the same or the opposite I forget. But it was a moneymaking opportunity.

With things like this, I always go back to my poker math. In a mathematically closed game (limit hold 'em), you need at least 15,000 hands, and often more like 35,000 hands, before you know you are making a profit.

I'm skeptical of the sample sizes of regular season sports bettors. Pre-season, I'm even more skeptical. So much of what seems like an edge is actually just rungood.

I mean, people can convince themselves that they have an edge in all sorts of situations. But there's a reason, for instance, that horseplayers don't like it when the jockeys aren't trying to win. (Heck, poker players don't like it when other players aren't trying to win either.) I don't think that changes when it's a football game instead.

proximity

08-25-2016, 07:35 PM

greetings loved ones. let's take a journey....---snoop dogg, california gurls

ok poker fans we are back in fabulous las vegas for day number five of our annual poker vacation!!

i get up early today and take another walk down to silver sevens for breakfast. there's a pancake special but i stick with the scrambled eggs so i can keep my "abs" for the....

BLU POOL

a plan to move to a lounge chair at the opposite end of the blu pool pays immediate dividends as i get to meet california cuties steph, holly, and the marvelous marissa!!

no "secondhand steinways" here col. slade!! it's all "greek columns" that lead straight to heaven!! especially my new love marissa!! indeed her lithe legs and captivating caboose will probably haunt my memories forever or at least until tomorrow at the blu pool when we meet.....

for today though it's west coast represent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57P9C4SAW4

POKER

the plan for today is to play at the mirage and i carry out that plan but miss out on the action at the bellagio where "ten" finally goes.

it's a long wait to get into the game at the mirage but there's a blackjack table right outside the room where i can pass the time. i start quickly at this $10 table before losing a bunch of hands in a row when a new dealer comes in. eventually i rebound and book a $31 win before going to the poker room where my name has made it to the top of the list.

the glory days of mr sklansky grinding "ten" at the mirage are apparently long gone. today the only limit game is 3/6 and i take a seat.

i'm pretty card dead again here in vegas but eventually see a flop with Q9s from late position. the flop of JXX checks around and a nine on the turn checks to a very loose player on my right who bets. i raise to $12 and am a little concerned when a passive asian girl calls from early position. the three of us see what appears to be a blank on the river but i'm not entirely sure. i check behind and we're off to a good start when my queen outkicks the loose player's 9x.

utg i fold as does the rest of the table. the blinds chop and i put out my big blind for the next hand. the table folds again but this time the small blind, a bad local we'll call "donkey death," raised my big blind instead of chopping!!

yes, i realize nobody is ever obligated to chop, but what a d*ckhead.

you know what? your little "bonus hand" isn't going to see a flop. i fold, donkey death.

with AK (ace of clubs) however i'll river the nut flush when four clubs come on the board. the river checks to me on the button and two early players call my $6. then donkey death ("i have a flush!!") pays back my blind when he too calls with the 8c!! i thought these vegas regs were supposed to be good? :rolleyes:

this pot moves me back ahead about $60 but it's slim pickings the rest of the way. KK falls to AK (and i believe AQ) and AK flops a king but loses to donkey death's TT when he stays the whole way to river his two outer.

i thought these vegas regs were supposed to be good?

well, some of them are and they start to fill in on my right. eventually donkey death leaves the game and i rack up with an $11 win at the mirage.

meanwhile "ten" is finally going over at the bellagio but the game broke when i walked in. caesar's though has an earl of sandwich and i grab a holiday turkey sandwich before heading out for a night of....

BLACKJACK

i start out playing $5 (6/5) blackjack at a small but very elegant caesar's casino called the cromwell. the cromwell is directly across flamingo from bally's and is small but classy. a bank of "goonies" slots seem out of place. our first dealer is yet another horrible vegas blackjack dealer but the next two are actually pretty good. the last guy is a bears fan from arizona and we discuss the jerrell freeman pickup and he entertains us with stories of different nfl players coming to the 'well.

while the blackjack odds aren't that good at the cromwell, "players" may have a better chance upstairs at drais (?) nighclub. there is a dress code and i since i only brought pumas with me we'll have to skip that this time.

i make $30 at the cromwell and a quick $52 at the linq before dumping back $77 at harrah's after which i quit for the night to see what's going on back over at bally's...... ;)

poker

the mirage +11 (3/6)
trip +141 (5-0)
kk 0-1 (1-1)

RunForTheRoses

08-25-2016, 09:15 PM

RunForTheRoses

08-25-2016, 09:18 PM

With things like this, I always go back to my poker math. In a mathematically closed game (limit hold 'em), you need at least 15,000 hands, and often more like 35,000 hands, before you know you are making a profit.

I'm skeptical of the sample sizes of regular season sports bettors. Pre-season, I'm even more skeptical. So much of what seems like an edge is actually just rungood.

I mean, people can convince themselves that they have an edge in all sorts of situations. But there's a reason, for instance, that horseplayers don't like it when the jockeys aren't trying to win. (Heck, poker players don't like it when other players aren't trying to win either.) I don't think that changes when it's a football game instead.

In the long run we are all dead!

I hear ya. Recently read
https://www.amazon.com/Toms-River-Story-Science-Salvation/dp/055380653X

great book, and the author showed how hard it is to prove causation. TR was eventually confirmed as I think, one of two Cancer Clusters in the US. Good read.

proximity

08-26-2016, 07:30 AM

<<<i start out playing $5 (6/5) blackjack at a small but very elegant caesar's casino called the cromwell.

The Cromwell was formerly the dumpy but fun Barbary Coast.

Enjoying the report, will go out there soon if I don't qualify for the BCBC.

How did you like the oppressively hot weather? (Back east it was probably worse with the humidity) Sounds like you are walking a lot, how did the feets hold up?

the heat didn't bother me at all. i did walk a lot and i could see where people can underestimate this because you're doing as much walking around inside the casinos as you are to get to the front doors. feet were fine though.

you gotta give us a report if you go. it would be great to hear more about vegas trips from paceadvantage members!!

proximity

08-26-2016, 08:18 AM

we are back in amazing las vegas poker fans for day number six of our gambling vacation!!

we start out with a steak and eggs for breakfast at tuscany.... which along with excalibur was the pleasant surprise of the trip.

BLU POOL

back at bally's it's a windy day at blu pool where i've again selected a chair at the opposite end. this again pays dividends as i meet kansas city girls tara, toni, and the raspy voiced michelle who talks like and like a young joan rivers. we're in the blu pool itself when the (much) quieter tara subtly moves the group over towards me. had michelle herself led the charge it probably would've scared me off to the baby pool. fortunately my football magazine doesn't blow away while all this is going on. :)

BLACKJACK

after blu pool i walk down to excalibur to see what's going on. it's a bit early for spread limit poker action so i join a $5 (?) blackjack table which proves to be an awful experience. i'm playing with a slow-playing loudmouth and yet another bad dealer, felipe. we have to hear every thought that goes through this guy's head...... he just can't wave over two picture cards and be done with it. "should i split? hmm?" then felipe will have a three up, flip over a picture, pick up the next card, slowly gaze at it for thirty seconds, hold it on the table, and finally flip over the eight. :bang:

i quickly lose patience with this and storm off to a ten dollar table where i play with good dealers and good players but experience similar losing results.
eventually however things turn around. i'm playing with a california "raiders nation" version of our own ronsmac and hey..... who is that at third base? it's our buddy wang from caddyshack!!

now we're rockin' and rollin'!! blackjacks are coming and the dealer is busting. i'm high fiving and fist bumping with ronsmac and wang and when felipe comes to our table to deal; surprise, surprise.... he can actually deal a decent game. from nearly $200 down i rally back to win $10.

back at bally's i could use a pepsi and grab a quick bite down at johnny rockets before ultimately heading back to excalibur for...

POKER

it's monday night poker at excalibur and i'm in 2-6 spread limit company against some rod stewart fans. i raise KK to $8 and don't see a flop. of course the small win is better than i usually do with the hand, so.....

with 87 from the (single $2) blind i'm heads up against a rod stewart fan and we see a flop of TT8. i bet and she calls.

turn: 8. i bet. she calls again. hmm?

the river is what i think is a blank and i check it but it gives her a flush that she thinks is good and she bets $6. of course i call and win with my boat. :cool:

AQ is outkicked by AK but with two aces on the board my A9s outkicks A8 and i'm starting to build a decent lead.

when AK sees a flop of KK7 a run out of 5-5 has to be another case of bad luck for me doesn't it? especially when we're three way?

but it's actually just the opposite as one villain flopped a boat with 77 and the second doesn't even have the case king!! :jump:

KK drags a nice pot; just the overpair holding up but our friend wang from caddyshack has joined the table and isn't having such good luck. when his AA gets cracked he does get to spin excalibur's wheel but he's not quite understanding and isn't getting much help from the (otherwise excellent) excalibur staff.

wang gives the wheel a half hearted spin (i think bob barker would say "spin again") and just walks out of the room!!

the dealer chuckles when i tell the floor that wang said i could have the spin, but they're not going for it. win some, lose some i guess? :)

poker

excalibur +141 (2/6 sl)
trip +282 (6-0)
kk 2-0 (3-1)

proximity

08-27-2016, 12:43 AM

ok poker fans, we are back in las vegas for day seven of our poker vacation and we start this tuesday morning with a walk to the stratosphere casino on the far north part of the strip.

there's a denny's on the way to the stratosphere with no line out the door so i stop for breakfast. my waiter (yet another steelers fan) is polite enough but it takes quite awhile for my grandslam breakfast to come out of the kitchen.

while the stratosphere is walkable, it's a depressing vegas walk and i probably won't do it again. along the way i pass the final remains of the iconic riviera, whose last remaining structure (monte carlo tower?) was just imploded at 2:30 in the morning. i do get to visit the circus circus and the dumpy slots a fun on the way to the stratosphere which seems nice enough although i decline a chance to go to the top and have "the best" view of vegas for $20.

BLU POOL

quiet day overall at blu pool at least until the end when two barbie dolls who could pass for penthouse pets start sashaying around the pool. two cool cats who look like gronkowski (he did miss practice that day) and brady won't even go near these dames. in fact, only one guy, a young four year old boy goes and sits near them. to me it's an amazing case of biology. the kid.... yet to be rejected, confused, or led on by the female species just does what comes naturally to him. he doesn't "know" any better. just a theory, who knows for sure? :confused:

POKER

we're back in 2/4 limit company again at the flamingo and despite a loss with KK i'm still holding on to a $25 lead about two hours into the game.

when i flop a straight with J9 (flop kqt) though my utg neighbor who limped with kx fills up after the board runs out T-K and i fall behind.

about this time a young oregon state graduate enters the game two seats to my left and this donkey just pounds me with too many dominated hands to mention. it starts when i raise QQ and he calls two bets cold with 8s7s. we see a flop of JTX with two diamonds (i have the queen) and of course he stays to hit his gutshot 9. the nine's a diamond but of course i get no help on the river.

in another memorable hand i raise KJ first in from the cutoff and he completes the small blind with 7c 4c. the big blind folds. flop: kc xc xc. :faint:

between losses to "the kid" i'm leading with pocket aces on a flop of K x x.

turn: k :bang:

of course the kid loses all my money to the rest of the table and eventually goes totally broke. not long after he leaves i quit in frustration down $129. it's frustrating that we HAVE to have one of these horrible games EVERY year on the vacation. but it is what it is and i try to win the money back over at bally's on...

BLACKJACK

i start out hot winning my first two hands but two kids, who must have learned to play at penn national, hit on 13s against a six and the dealer makes a hand to beat me instead of busting. in the long run these bad plays can help you as easily as they can hurt you but in tonight's "short run" it hurts me as the dealer goes on to make hand after hand after hand...... in the end i drop $200 on blackjack and a bet on the phillies as one horrible night of gambling ruins everything and i fall behind overall for the trip. :mad:

how foolish you are to think you can make money playing blackjack. how utterly foolish.--- barry meadow, blackjack autumn (9/23/98 las vegas)

poker

flamingo -129 (2/4)
trip +153 (6-1)
kk 0-1 (3-2)

charm city whizz

08-27-2016, 02:22 AM

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/22920-vegas-slot-token-coins/

Pretty cool article on the slot tokens we talked about at timonium today....

El cortez
The plaza
Circus circus/slots of fun
East side cannery
Gold strike

All use coins still.....im only around since "Tito" machines game out but those coin buckets would be seen all over the place at stores restaurants everywhere,had to be a pain lugging around buckets of coin

proximity

08-28-2016, 06:18 PM

ok poker fans, after a horrible day seven we are back in wonderful las vegas for day number eight of our vacation.

i'm up early on this wednesday morning and wander back over to the flamingo where i join a more relaxing 2/4 game against a field of mostly locals or "regs."

i fold for a half hour before running JJ into two players with AA. no jack comes and i'm behind again at the flamingo.

an hour later i raise AT first in from the button and can't fold out the small blind who calls with 96. i flop top pair (T84) but she stays to hit her gutshot seven and our boat is again drifting away from the shore.

a win with KK reduces my deficit to only $23 but i'm completely card dead for the next three and a half hours. in one hand i do flop a straight with 65 from the big blind but only manage a chop with one of the "regs" who limped in early with the same hand.

around 3:00 i'm down $56 and finally wave the white flag so i can head back to bally's for my final session at.....

BLU POOL

there's again some decent eye candy at blu pool although most of today's girls seem to be with their boyfriends. i try to start reading about the nfc west in my football magazine but end up falling asleep for a few minutes. when i wake up the sun is starting to move behind bally's. every day at blu pool they'd play lana del rey's summertime sadness and when i get a text from united, i don't just hear summertime sadness, i feel it too. my boarding pass is ready to print. it's almost time to go home. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akhmS1D2Ce4

poker

flamingo -56 (2/4)
trip +97 (6-2)
kk 1-0 (4-2)

garyscpa

08-28-2016, 10:37 PM

But you had fun, right?

proximity

08-29-2016, 12:23 AM

But you had fun, right?

i had a great time but definitely have the post-trip depression they talked about on vegasmessageboard. wish i could go back right now.

thaskalos

08-29-2016, 12:38 AM

i had a great time but definitely have the post-trip depression they talked about on vegasmessageboard. wish i could go back right now.

For the gambling...or for the pool?

proximity

08-29-2016, 01:08 AM

ok poker fans we are back in exciting las vegas for our final night.

i don't need "abs" for the blu pool anymore so i carb up with a spaghetti dinner at sbarro in the bally's food court. i decide my final night is going to be spent on spread limit at the excalibur. i absolutely LOVED this game as it really punishes the donkeys who have no discipline and like to play a lot of junk.

as i walk across the pedestrian bridge connecting new york new york with excalibur i stop to see one final sunset over the beautiful mountains. i will really miss this amazing view and the many others that the vegas experience provides.

in the spread limit game i start out hot from the (single $2) blind, winning with both J4 and then J3. the next time the blind comes around though i run into trouble with 98. i get a free card when a flop of KJT checks around. i turn my seven but a woman at the other end of the table has slow played AQ and i fall back to about even.

in my next blind i flop top pair with K9 and lose but when the blind comes around again i flop a winning flush with 86s.

outside of these blind hands i'm folding almost everything but when a new player comes in and raises his first hand, i look down at QQ and three bet.

heads up i bet a flop of AT9 and i also bet a jack on the turn. i check behind a seven on the river and the donkey tables J7 off for a rivered two pair!! :faint:

in recent months it seems like i'm doing a great job of betting when i'm ahead and pulling back when behind but unfortunately it's not showing in the results. on this trip i'm even getting some big advantages heads up and not holding up. it's frustrating, but it is what it is and this loss to J7 drops me below even for the game.

later i get another chance with QQ and i raise to $8 and am heads up against a new player on my left who has cold called with A3s.

of course he flops a flush and yes, i have the queen of his suit. :bang:

queens are ruining my spread limit kingdom here at excalibur and it's getting late but king proximity, the wayne allyn root of las vegas spread limit, isn't surrendering his throne without a fight.

with T9s i turn trips and hold off the drawing donkeys on the river. the pot moves me back ahead and i cash out undefeated on the trip at excalibur!!

although it's been a winning trip on poker and sports i'm still down overall thanks to blackjack. back at bally's i give the game one final chance to pay me back.

i lose my first hand at this $15 table but win the next three.

the next hand is a big one for the other two players at the table who both get to split and re-split/double at least once against the dealer's four.

i have an easy stand with a thirteen but in some ways the hand is even bigger for me. if he busts, i move back ahead for the trip!!

the dealer flips over an eight and then from my third base seat i see the glorious site of paint coming out of the shoe!!

it's a 22 and i color up and head to the cashier! :)

poker

excalibur +22 (2/6s)
trip +119 (7-2)
kk 0-0 (4-2)

proximity

08-29-2016, 01:18 AM

For the gambling...or for the pool?

i probably miss just going out and walking on the strip more than any of that.

hope to get a chance to meet you next time thaskalos and wish you the best of luck out there!!

ReplayRandall

08-29-2016, 01:28 AM

i probably miss just going out and walking on the strip more than any of that.

I'm surprised that you didn't ride the monorail from Bally's south to the MGM, or north to the Sahara. One-day pass is just $10.....The entrance at Bally's was right by the BLU POOL

thaskalos

08-29-2016, 01:29 AM

i probably miss just going out and walking on the strip more than any of that.

hope to get a chance to meet you next time thaskalos and wish you the best of luck out there!!

The feeling is mutual, Proximity. On your next Vegas trip...I promise to be your host for a truly memorable experience. But don't take too long before returning out west...because I might find stormy weather out there, and beat a hasty retreat. :)

proximity

08-29-2016, 02:08 AM

The feeling is mutual, Proximity. On your next Vegas trip...I promise to be your host for a truly memorable experience. But don't take too long before returning out west...because I might find stormy weather out there, and beat a hasty retreat. :)

i think you'll do good. there are a lot of options in no limit where if you see too many familiar faces you can easily move.

sports, i don't know anything about as obviously my strategy of betting my favorite teams isn't a long term winner. i did develop a respect for the "smart" money. the game i lost was a good example as the phillies were +140 when i left bally's, +145 when i got to circus circus, and +165 when i got back to bally's. "they" almost seemed to know the dodgers were going to win? :confused:

Donttellmeshowme

08-29-2016, 04:50 PM

i think you'll do good. there are a lot of options in no limit where if you see too many familiar faces you can easily move.

sports, i don't know anything about as obviously my strategy of betting my favorite teams isn't a long term winner. i did develop a respect for the "smart" money. the game i lost was a good example as the phillies were +140 when i left bally's, +145 when i got to circus circus, and +165 when i got back to bally's. "they" almost seemed to know the dodgers were going to win? :confused:

Circus Circus is still around? Thought they demolished that place?

RunForTheRoses

08-29-2016, 06:22 PM

Time went by quick prox, even reading it. Vegas is cool, sure there's gambling almost everywhere but East Coast gambling can't compare to the edge of the world desert Vegas experience.

While on the Vegas thing check out cocktaildoll's websites, I don't think either are updated but there's a bunch of stuff there to peruse to get over the Vegas depression.

http://www.cocktaildoll.com/

http://cocktaildoll.blogspot.com/

proximity

08-29-2016, 07:53 PM

just read "step off bitch."

cocktaildoll seems feisty. :)

ReplayRandall

08-29-2016, 08:47 PM

I'm surprised that you didn't ride the monorail from Bally's south to the MGM, or north to the Sahara. One-day pass is just $10.....The entrance at Bally's was right by the BLU POOL

In addition, since you went to the Linq, what did you think of the High Roller at the Linq, which, at 550 feet tall, is the highest Ferris wheel in the world? Staying at Bally's right across the street, it's really quite beautiful, all lit up at night, or didn't you notice? BTW, since Bally's and the Paris are linked together, what did you think of the night sky inside the Paris casino, the unbelievable Le Village Buffet, and did you ride to the top of the Eiffel Tower? All Gold and Diamond card players get free passes from the Bally's reward center......

proximity

08-29-2016, 09:29 PM

i didn't do any of that stuff. you could see the wheel from my floor but not my room which faced paris, (some of) bellagio, and hilton grand vacations(?). someone said it takes an hour for it to go around??? :confused:

i think i only walked through paris one night. i was looking for some ice cream but didn't find any.

i thought about going to x burlesque at flamingo or x country at harrah's but didn't do that either. i also wanted to play blackjack at more casinos but the crazy swings of the first day kinda slowed me down on it some.

saturday could have been better planned and silver sevens and stratosphere will probably be out on future trips.

proximity

08-30-2016, 12:43 AM

i'm up early on thursday morning and grab some french toast at bally's buca di beppo before taking one final walk down to mandalay bay. when i get back it's off to mccarran for my flight back to dulles.

every year we've ended our poker vacation at charles town and 2016 won't be an exception.

i sleep soundly thursday night and get up early to head over to the racino where they usually start their limit game around 11:00.

it's a rocky start.

about thirty minutes in i lose with KK and losses with TT and AK follow. a little over two hours in i raise KQs from early position and the whole table calls!! i'm down $85 after this loss.

i hang tough though and finally move ahead with KK about three hours later.

wins with AK, QQ, and 77, followed by another win with KK move me ahead nearly $100.

but AT loses twice to rags and i'm about ready to leave for live racing when we come to one final hand: KK.

flop: KsTs6 :cool:

turn: 6s :cool: :confused:

good: one player has As Js

bad: he's all in.

ugly: another player has 66. :bang:

this is almost worth it though. as we have two outs for a six digit bad beat.

but a blank on the river kills the dream and i rack up with a $17 win in the final game of our 2016 vacation.

i go outside and watch a couple live races before watching a disciplined track collector fold for a couple orbits of no limit.

on the drive home i think of the two outer for the big money and shake my head.

almost heaven, west virginia?

or was it?

regular readers of my reports might recall the story of terrence who stayed to hit one of the first charles town jackpots with the underpair 55..... after which charles town upped the jackpot to quad SEVENS or better beaten!! :faint:

so i needed the case king, to win only the pot!! :bang:

at least it was a winning trip this year. :)

thank you for reading!!

game +17 (3/6)
vacation +136 (8-2)
kk 2-2 (6-4)

proximity

08-30-2016, 03:45 AM

i was lucky. i could (...) easily have lost...... but i didn't lose. i won. and now i'm home. -- barry meadow, blackjack autumn (afterword)

sun, relaxation, and gambling were the priorities IN THAT ORDER.

and that was the right order because if there was one thing that i learned, las vegas isn't maryland live or horseshoe baltimore. if you're spending eighteen hours a day at a poker table there.... you're doing it wrong.

overall this trip was a GREAT idea and i can't wait to go back!

special thanks to the staff and management of bally's for a clean and comfortable stay. you were great.

also thanks to euromilf, hilary, selena, marissa, tara, and all of the blu pool beauties. i miss you girls.

finally a huge thank you to everyone here in the paceadvantage poker forum for reading my reports and for your comments and suggestions. before the year started i was considering moving the reports to another site. i'm glad i didn't do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-pUaogoX5o

proximity

09-11-2016, 11:19 PM

after finishing the vacation 8-2 for +$136 and 6-4 with kk, we head into september with these updated stats:

year -311 (36-28)
kk (29-32)
promo (2010--->1042.50 cashed)
bonus (90)

proximity

09-11-2016, 11:42 PM

ok poker fans, our next game finds me back at historic charles town where we kickoff september with some exciting 3/6 limit action!!

despite a pair of early losses with JJ, our good buddy KK strikes twice and i jump out to a $103 lead.

kt though falls to 93 (and not from the blinds), J7 flops top pair from the big blind but falls to a straight, and a loss with 55 quickly reduces my profits to $47.

A9 of diamonds flops a flush draw and turns a gutshot straight. naturally though another player has T9 and no diamonds come. this loss and a loss with 66 drop my lead to only $16.

AT flops a ten for top pair and a backdoor nut flush draw but a guy with a red king stays in to turn the king of spades. of course there's no spade, ace or ten on the river and just like that my three digit lead is all but gone.

i raise AK but both 64 and QJ off suit call two cold to beat me and of course to add insult to injury i turn another four flush that keeps me in the hand.

J8 flops a straight from the big blind but there are only two other players in the hand (very rare for ct) and they both fold to my flop bet.

with the game starting to get a little shaky i get JJ again. i figure this one's gonna end how it started but raise anyhow. fortunately though the jacks hold up this time and i move back ahead and finish with yet another mini win.

game +8 (3/6)
year -303 (37-28)
kk 2-0 (31-32)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

ReplayRandall

09-11-2016, 11:48 PM

despite a pair of early losses with JJ, our good buddy KK strikes twice and i jump out to a $103 lead.

With the game starting to get a little shaky i get JJ again. i figure this one's gonna end how it started but raise anyhow. fortunately though the jacks hold up this time and i move back ahead and finish with yet another mini win.

game +8 (3/6)

Tough to quit when you were up $103, still thinking the game was good? How long was the time interval between your high point, and when the game started to get shaky?

proximity

09-12-2016, 12:20 AM

Tough to quit when you were up $103, still thinking the game was good? How long was the time interval between your high point, and when the game started to get shaky?

i usually open that game when i'm there but i arrived a little late that day and had to wait a bit to get in. i probably hit my peak around 4:00 and the game broke around 6:30?

sometimes a game will get what i call a weak constitution. there was only one limit table running at this time but sometimes you'll be in a room with multiple games going and maybe your table has eight players and the other two tables have seven..... but your table has unenforced third man walking, or a "hold my seat while i go get cash but never return," and or some very short stacks that are a threat to quickly tap out and totally break your "eight player" game while the floor is seating new players in the "shorter" seven player games.

at ct i didn't mind this game breaking because i was about to leave for live racing anyhow but it can be frustrating sometimes.

dilanesp

09-12-2016, 08:22 PM

Tough to quit when you were up $103, still thinking the game was good? How long was the time interval between your high point, and when the game started to get shaky?

"Quit while you are ahead" is a correct strategy for losing players who do not plan to play again for awhile. In that instance, quitting your session locks up your win whereas your expectation is negative if you keep playing.

In contrast, a winning poker player should do one of two things: play a set number of hours, win or lose (what I do) or play as long as the player has the time and an advantage in the game (what most pros do). (I prefer the set number of hours because I don't trust myself, or most players, to make honest judgments about the game. The psychological tendency is to play like a fish and lock up your wins and chase your losses.)

Session results are meaningless. As long as you are playing long term winning poker, it doesn't matter one bit whether you leave a particular session with more or less money in your pocket. As the great poker author David Sklansky says, "life is one long session".

ReplayRandall

09-12-2016, 08:56 PM

"Quit while you are ahead" is a correct strategy for losing players who do not plan to play again for awhile. In that instance, quitting your session locks up your win whereas your expectation is negative if you keep playing.

In contrast, a winning poker player should do one of two things: play a set number of hours, win or lose (what I do) or play as long as the player has the time and an advantage in the game (what most pros do). (I prefer the set number of hours because I don't trust myself, or most players, to make honest judgments about the game. The psychological tendency is to play like a fish and lock up your wins and chase your losses.)

Session results are meaningless. As long as you are playing long term winning poker, it doesn't matter one bit whether you leave a particular session with more or less money in your pocket. As the great poker author David Sklansky says, "life is one long session".

You're up 17 big blinds in a game that might be shaky, thus the question to Proxy. Some players are strongest only in full ring-games, getting weaker as the game gets short-handed and/or fills with props to hold it together. It's always a good idea to analyze where you are at in a game at all times.....Always be honest with yourself, if not, it'll cost you money, both short and long term. Booking wins is good for the soul, no matter your skill level...;)

proximity

09-13-2016, 12:12 AM

dilanesp

09-13-2016, 02:22 AM

You're up 17 big blinds in a game that might be shaky, thus the question to Proxy. Some players are strongest only in full ring-games, getting weaker as the game gets short-handed and/or fills with props to hold it together. It's always a good idea to analyze where you are at in a game at all times.....Always be honest with yourself, if not, it'll cost you money, both short and long term. Booking wins is good for the soul, no matter your skill level...;)
'
Booking wins is NOT good for the soul. It's chickening out.

It's succumbing to emotion at the expense of math. And it's making the fundamental mental mistake of all poor poker players-- caring about the short term rather than the long term.

NEVER book a win in a good game. If you can make an HONEST assessment that a game has become bad or that you are tired, fine, leave for that reason-- BUT ONLY IF YOU WOULD ALSO LEAVE IF YOU WERE BEHIND.

And if you can't do that honestly, play to a set time and rely on the number of hours you play to establish your winrate. That's what math dictates, and math governs poker.

(I could make a very partial exception for NO limit players-- I could see a player booking a win at a good table if the only player with as deep a stack as he or she has is another good player. But that's because such a situation increases the variance a lot, not because it is good to book wins.)

thaskalos

09-13-2016, 03:02 AM

Booking a win only makes sense to me if I am planning on quitting poker for good once the current session is over. If I intend to continue playing the game...then what difference does it make if the next poker hand is dealt next week...or next minute?

You are at the track, and you have pocketed what you consider to be a great day's pay...but you have more solid bets that you intended to make later on in the afternoon. Do you just pack up your belongings and go home?

barn32

09-13-2016, 05:50 AM

Quit when you feel it slipping away.

dilanesp

09-13-2016, 12:24 PM

thaskalos

09-13-2016, 12:58 PM

Take note, when thask and me, who have very different approaches to poker, agree on something....

When you are right...we are bound to agree. :)

ReplayRandall

09-13-2016, 01:06 PM

When you are right...we are bound to agree. :)

Of course, if you both agree, then it must be true..:D....I'll take more notes when this ever happens again..:cool:

thaskalos

09-13-2016, 01:41 PM

Of course, if you both agree, then it must be true..:D....I'll take more notes when this ever happens again..:cool:
If Dilanesp starts thinking more sensibly...then I expect us to agree with alarming regularity. :cool:

ReplayRandall

09-13-2016, 01:49 PM

If Dilanesp starts thinking more sensibly...then I expect us to agree with alarming regularity. :cool:

Holding your breath with that statement ever coming to pass, and you'll never see Vegas...ALIVE..:lol:

proximity

09-13-2016, 06:07 PM

Holding your breath with that statement ever coming to pass, and you'll never see Vegas...ALIVE..:lol:

did you arrive yet thaskalos?? how's it going so far??

proximity

09-13-2016, 11:21 PM

ok poker fans our next game finds us back at horseshoe baltimore for a short game after another exciting timonium card!!

after falling behind early i win my first (and only) hand of the game when Ad7d turns an ace against two wild players.

i cash out with another mini win but the real meaning of this trip is promos.

i'm supposed to get (1) $35 of promo chips, (2) 1000 reward credits ($10), (3) possibly an additional 1250 reward credits since i have a september birthday, and (4) an additional promo chip voucher since they're out of foreman grills.

i get my 1000 reward credits on a slot machine but in a new change there aren't anymore promo chips; instead you take the vouchers from the machine directly to the tables and they must be played within 24 hours..... no more hoarding.

the machine spits out a ten and twenty five dollar voucher for me and i lose both bets. :mad:

the birthday promotion says i need a coupon but (for the second year in a row) i was never sent a coupon so i go to the rewards center to ask about this.

"you have xxx,xxx reward credits and you want another 1250?" the "customer service" representative asks me.

"well, since they said i could get it for my birthday..... yes, i do."

well it turns out my birthday isn't "registered" (which of course doesn't make sense since how would caesars know to send me this offer if it wasn't) but the woman allegedly "puts it in" and says i can come back another time or something.

at this point i just give up and i go to get my other promo chip voucher(s) since they're out of foreman grills. in a rare break however, they still have some grills and after several missed attempts in my horseshoe career i FINALLY get my hands on one of these grills.

hopefully it works better than the incredibly weak dirt devils horseshoe gave me and track collector before. :D

game +10 (3/6)
year -293 (38-28)
kk 0-0 (31-32)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-14-2016, 10:11 PM

today on our poker tour it's proximity's birthday and we take off for exciting atlantic city to celebrate!!

it's a relaxing ride down to the shore and i arrive at bally's around midnight. i've booked a non-smoking king in their curtisonthebay tower for two nights and plan to see if i can stay a third night at a decent rate.

the trip starts bad when bally's doesn't have any more king rooms and i take a two double room in the bally's tower section. a third night will be $204 but the girl at check-in tells me the price will probably go down if i check again tomorrow and that i could possibly even be comped...... so i just keep my two nights and head up to what is easily the worst room i've ever had at a caesar's property. the room is hot, smells bad, has "all or nothing" faucets,........ i should've complained but instead just turned on the ac and headed down to the casino to relax with some blackjack and a jack and coke.

but the cocktail waitress is nowhere to be found and i'm losing on the blackjack like i was at the flamingo. our nerdy dealer is trying to pry into my life's details as she continues to make hand after hand while i'm stuck with a bunch of sixteens. but i'm just another loser playing ten dollar blackjack in the middle of the night at bally's. i don't want to think about my life's details. it's my birthday and all i want is just to hit and stand in peace. please.

the next morning i wake up and i was hoping that the night was just all one bad dream. but the room still smells and a large chunk of the money i had for 10/20 is gone. so i take the walk of shame to the atm and then stop to check on friday's rates at the desk. but today's worker CAN'T SEE IF THE ROOM'S AVAILABLE (yes, from inside the hotel!!!)...... I HAVE TO CALL AN 800 NUMBER!!! :faint:

what a joke!!

after a relaxing afternoon on the beach i finally hit the poker room for some 2-4-6 limit action. i run like a turtle in a game that's moving like molasses. late in the contest i river a flush with AQ to make it respectable but still end up with an eleven dollar loss.

it's miss america weekend and i don't have a "diamond" card there but down the boardwalk tropicana gives me a room on friday for almost half the price of bally's. note however that they can't book it for me at the desk.... i have to walk across the lobby and use a special phone by the bell desk. wtf is with this town??? :bang:

game -11 (2-4-6)
year -304 (38-29)
kk 0-0 (31-32)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-15-2016, 08:27 PM

ok poker fans we return to the bally's wsop poker room on the famous atlantic city boardwalk for more 2-4-6 limit drama!

i'm getting a lot of practice folding in what is yet another gem of a game here at bally's.

eventually i flop top pair and am leading despite a paired board. when the river puts out a fourth club however i'm gunned down by the table drunk who called down with a two high flush draw. yes, two high.

after this i suffer yet another loss with QQ (seems to be the new KK?) but a flopped flush with QJs holds up and i'm back to within seven dollars of even.

i look to move ahead when AK sees a flop of KK8 rainbow but our friendly table drunk strikes again with...... pocket 3s..... yes, pocket 3s..... when a three hits the turn. i should probably be thankful that he never raised after hitting this miracle card but i'm just not in a very thankful mood this week at bally's.

maybe things will go better tomorrow at tropicana? :)

game -26 (2-4-6)
year -330 (38-30)
kk 0-0 (31-32)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

dilanesp

09-16-2016, 12:35 PM

proximity

09-16-2016, 02:46 PM

I can show you the math on this, but in many situations and against many ranges, it is correct to call a turn bet heads up with a one-card 2 high flush draw, even on a paired board.

WRT to the 33 hand, if there are upwards of 20 bets in on the flop, it's correct to call a single bet trying to hit the 2 outer.

Not saying the table drunk is going to know any of this. But it's worthy of discussion.

i'll be honest, it's hard to remember all of this because there were five games after this one, but i recall this being a shorter field (four to the flop) where he was barely getting the pot odds to call for any flush (and certainly not to go runner, runner after the flop, lol) and of course you have to subtract out the rake, bad beat, and dealer tip.

in the AK hand he wasn't getting anywhere near 20-1 or i wouldn't have posted the hand.

proximity

09-16-2016, 03:03 PM

also if you're hellbent on calling down with this two high draw i'd say the reverse implied odds (?) against you are a big consideration too.

jmo.... and i'll try to get the first tropicana report up a little later for those who are interested. :) :) :)

proximity

09-16-2016, 06:57 PM

while we wait for me to check-in @ tropicana here is a video of what some of this experience looks like for readers who are unfamiliar with atlantic city:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjk2RAXc1jk

this young couple is at the tropicana from roughly 1:17 to 3:00.......

proximity

09-16-2016, 08:22 PM

back in exciting atlantic city poker fans where it's been a rough start so far on this special proximity birthday trip.

later today i'll be checking in at the tropicana and i decide to give this property some play to see if i can trigger any future offers?

we're again in 2-4-6 limit company and it's another bad start as JJ falls to a tepidly played AK.

i raise KQ and hit two pair but end up finishing about sixth place in the hand. :rolleyes: this loss puts me down about $35 but 97 from the big blind turns a straight and i'm back in the game.

but KK runs into two sets in the same hand and then KT flops top two (KT4) but falls to 47 when a third four hits the river. i win one late with KQ but overall i'm card dead the rest of the way.

outside on the boardwalk they're setting up for the miss america contestants to parade while inside at tropicana i have a fast check in. there's heavy security to get to my room in the humble west tower and the room has an uninspiring view of the chelsea but it doesn't smell and is much cleaner than the room at bally's.

next: let's make america great again!!

game -51 (246)
year -381 (38-31)
kk 0-1 (31-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-18-2016, 09:59 PM

after relaxing for a bit in the heavily guarded tropicana west tower we're back in the card room for more 2-4-6 limit action!!

with AT in my very first hand (big blind) i flop an ace. at showdown for some reason the table seems surprised that i have an ace. what exactly they thought i was betting with second to act..... i have no idea? but it's a rare positive start and even after QQ falls to a set of 3s i'm still ahead $20 in the early going.

i'm playing beside a diehard trump supporter named brad who is making sure the whole table's voting for trump...... which fortunately seems to be the case since brad's laying it on a little thick. i'm a registered republican but i have to stop short of sending trump $500 like brad did.... i think i'd just fly to vegas again with that kinda cash just laying around.

losses with AJ and AK drop my lead to single digits but the phillies have come all the way back to tie washington at four.

next i hit a flush with KJs to move back ahead nearly $40 but washington wins the game with two outs in the bottom of the ninth.

meanwhile, possibly our first democrat has joined the table and he's trying (in vain) to get brad to cut the politics talk.

QQ falls again, this time to T4 :rolleyes: but AA>KK and we're threatening to win back our earlier tropicana losses. JTs is leading following a ten high flop but T9 catches up with a nine on the turn and we have to settle for a $28 win.

out in the casino i try a little blackjack and some quarter slots. fortunately i win a little on both games. maybe the tide is turning here in atlantic city? hopefully i can at least trigger some future room offers at this festive casino? :)

game +28 (246)
year -353 (39-31)
kk 0-0 (31-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-21-2016, 01:05 AM

ok poker fans we are back in exciting atlantic city where the 2017 (yes 17) miss america's are about to parade on the boardwalk. (personally i favored miss maryland hannah brewer in this contest but miss arkansas savvy shields ended up taking home the crown.)

i get up early and take a walk down to resorts to get the blood flowing and have a cup of dunkin' donuts coffee. it's going to be a long day of poker and the action kicks off back at tropicana with a brand new game of 246 limit hold em!!

it's a slow start but i hope to reverse things when i turn a straight with KT from late position. the turn card put three diamonds on the board and there's a bet from a player we'll call grandma and there's not going to be any cheap cards for any rag of diamonds this time; i raise to $8.

but of course a rag of diamonds calls and grandma raises to $12. without a diamond i fold and grandma indeed did have the flush..... which they almost always (or maybe even always) do. i think the old atlantic city ace wiffleball whiz that used to post here said you're 1000-1 in this situation and he's probably right.

J9s misses an open ended straight draw and we're down about $50 but AK flops an ace and i look finally drag a pot and get back in the game. but grandma has A9 and turns two pair and i'm still searching for a win.

eventually i find that win with AQ which wins twice to start to rally me back before i miss some more oesds and then lose twice with AJ.

i grab wins with AA and KK but the game breaks and it's time to step out of the kiddie pool and maybe make a move on johnny chan over at..... THE BORGATA!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

game -38 (246)
year -391 (39-32)
kk 1-0 (32-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-21-2016, 03:17 AM

[IMG]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14141670_1110999138992462_7207407181784697700_n.jp g?oh=43507ce77afc41892be5cd00f396991c&oe=5838562E

miss maryland tries to pick me up at it'sugar on the atlantic city boardwalk!! ;)

Trips

09-21-2016, 10:32 AM

proximity

09-21-2016, 10:15 PM

ok poker fans we are back in exciting atlantic city and it's time to make our way over the king of east coast poker rooms: the borgata!!

i park on the roof and down in the casino i stop at some slots to "color up" my bankroll. this proves to be a good decision as i strike with a double diamond-double diamond-7 on a quarter machine!! in fact, i win every single time i stick money in a machine and arrive at the poker room with over $100 more than i came in with!!

i'm next up on the 3/6 list and about midway down the 10/20 list but before i even leave the desk in the front i'm being called for 3/6 and i can't tell where the call is coming from. i go to the back middle and tell one of the many floor people that they called me and ask where this game is? i get my seat over the person they were about to seat ahead of me but as one of the top poker rooms (and possibly the nicest) in the world YOU CAN'T BE GIVING AWAY A PLAYER'S SEAT ONLY FIFTEEN SECONDS AFTER YOU CALL HIM AND TWENTY SECONDS AFTER THEY FIRST GET ON THE LIST..... especially in a room so large. fortunately i'm a fast walker but this is just ridiculous and extremely poor customer service by the borgata. :bang:

anyhow, i take my seat in this relatively competitive 3/6 contest where queens seem to be coming out on every board. QQ itself has really been hurting me lately but when i raise a pair of these ladies the borgata table trend continues..... queen right on the flop!! :cool:

eventually i drag another pot with QQ and build up a $44 lead when the loudspeaker suddenly booms "PROXIMITY FOR 10-20, PROXIMITY FOR 10-20!!"

game +44 (3/6)
year -347 (40-32)
kk 0-0 (32-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

09-22-2016, 06:06 PM

ok poker fans we are back in atlantic city at the beautiful borgata where we've just been called for the main event of this birthday trip: exciting 10-20 limit hold 'em action!!

an early win with KK wouldn't even be worth mentioning since everyone folded to my pre-flop raise but with this score the "cowboys" have clawed their way back to .500 on the season. (33-33) congratulations KK!!

the KK "score" puts us up a red chip but the blinds are coming around fast. from the big blind QJ flops a queen but a player we'll call "norman bates" stays with Kx and turns a king and we fall behind before wins with TT and AK move us back ahead.

QQ isn't going to beat much in an aggressively played hand but when the villain table JJ we drag a big pot and move up about $300 for the game.

99 is leading AK but another king comes on the turn to beat us. i raise KQ (dilane style) and flop a queen but still lose heads up to norman bates and our lead plummets towards the two-digit range.

a win with AA however puts me back ahead over $200 and the game starts to slow down some. when the dust finally settles i cash out $275 to the good; another exciting "ten" win at the borgata!! :)

thank you for reading!!

game +275 (10/20)
year -72 (41-32)
kk 1-0 (33-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

charm city whizz

09-22-2016, 07:04 PM

proximity

09-23-2016, 01:12 PM

Awesome score in one of the hardest games in poker 10/20 limit at the borgata.....only good thing is solid play should get you to victory lane

Keep up these winning sessions I'll live vicariously through these reports

Side note "Patrick chan" is now the manager at horseshoe baltimore and your boy cuse rounder is ripping him to shreds......not looking good for that poker room

love me or hate me there are two things you'll ALWAYS get from this corner:

(1) an honest effort at the tables and..

(2) an honest report about the games.

in my opinion there is more unjustified complaining about the horseshoe baltimore on "that other site" than possibly any other topic on the entire internet. FIFTY TIER CREDITS AND THREE COMP DOLLARS AN HOUR..... UNPRECEDENTED PROMO CHIPS AND TABLE PLAY.... FOREMAN GRILLS, BLENDERS, TEA KETTLES, DIRT DEVILS**.... what other casino in this region EVER gave so generously????.... and yet they still cried (and lied) like babies over there!!

cuserounder? i don't agree with his politics or 100% of his views but i do believe he's a very good player and that he's one of the most honest posters over there. he provided an excellent thread there and yet you still have kids coming out of the woodwork and speculating that he's tapped out and criticizing his health, while implying that they're at this burgeoning 5/10 level (doesn't even consistently go at 80% of casinos) looking down at him..... the place is f#$%ing pathetic!!

just some thoughts! :)

**the dirt devil's actually don't work that well, but it's the thought that counts. :)

thaskalos

09-23-2016, 01:22 PM

cuserounder? i don't agree with his politics or 100% of his views but i do believe he's a very good player and that he's one of the most honest posters over there. he provided an excellent thread there and yet you still have kids coming out of the woodwork and speculating that he's tapped out and criticizing his health, while implying that they're at this burgeoning 5/10 level (doesn't even consistently go at 80% of casinos) looking down at him..... the place is f#$%ing pathetic!!

How you could stand it at that "other" site is beyond my comprehension. I haven't browsed there for over a year...because I got a headache every time I visited there. The only good thing that ever came to me as a result of that "other" site is that I was cured of my delusion that the horseplayers were the biggest liars in cyberspace.

Track Collector

09-23-2016, 03:27 PM

love me or hate me there are two things you'll ALWAYS get from this corner:

(1) an honest effort at the tables and..

(2) an honest report about the games.

in my opinion there is more unjustified complaining about the horseshoe baltimore on "that other site" than possibly any other topic on the entire internet. FIFTY TIER CREDITS AND THREE COMP DOLLARS AN HOUR..... UNPRECEDENTED PROMO CHIPS AND TABLE PLAY.... FOREMAN GRILLS, BLENDERS, TEA KETTLES, DIRT DEVILS**.... what other casino in this region EVER gave so generously????.... and yet they still cried (and lied) like babies over there!!

cuserounder? i don't agree with his politics or 100% of his views but i do believe he's a very good player and that he's one of the most honest posters over there. he provided an excellent thread there and yet you still have kids coming out of the woodwork and speculating that he's tapped out and criticizing his health, while implying that they're at this burgeoning 5/10 level (doesn't even consistently go at 80% of casinos) looking down at him..... the place is f#$%ing pathetic!!

just some thoughts! :)

**the dirt devil's actually don't work that well, but it's the thought that counts. :)

Love you or hate you <-- The Former!!

You are genuine, and that is rare in today's world.

Re: Dirt Devil giveaways. HaHa. I've read negative reviews about how "good" they are. Received one earlier in the year, but have not taken it out of the box yet. Would have received another one in a "random prize giveaway", but eagerly traded it with someone else for their portable folding metal rod chair! :)

Haven't checked on cuserounder for a while. Is he now back to playing regularly at the Horseshoe and at other local area poker rooms? For someone who is playing as a professional to earn their livelihood, it will naturally raise concerns when they are not seen for long periods of time. That said, people tend to be resentful or jealous of another's success.

proximity

09-24-2016, 09:54 PM

Side note "Patrick chan" is now the manager at horseshoe baltimore and your boy cuse rounder is ripping him to shreds......not looking good for that poker room

i see 'cuse is saying mr chan's primarily a table games man and that he's the one who was responsible for taking away 2/3 of our tier and reward credits. he also claims that mr chan had the credits at penn national levels (zero) in new orleans? i can't believe caesars would go for that though??? :confused:

dilanesp

10-07-2016, 05:32 PM

How you could stand it at that "other" site is beyond my comprehension. I haven't browsed there for over a year...because I got a headache every time I visited there. The only good thing that ever came to me as a result of that "other" site is that I was cured of my delusion that the horseplayers were the biggest liars in cyberspace.

There really are very few winners in the poker world. When I was online we had table ratings and the number was 4 percent of limit hold 'em players. It's actually probably lower in live games because the rake is higher.

And there are very few winners in horse racing either.

Plus, at least some winning players never post anything online, for various reasons.

The reality is that there's no way that the vast majority of posters on any gambling forums aren't going to be losers.

The thing about "the other site" though is this. I'm definitely not a great limit hold 'em strategist-- I'm just passable on strategy and do what I do mostly through extreme discipline. But I do follow the discussions there, and 99.99 percent of what you would need to become a better limit hold 'em player than I am is posted on that site somewhere. It's really that good-- it's better than any book and any video. You just have to seek it out and work REALLY hard.

thaskalos

10-07-2016, 08:50 PM

The thing about "the other site" though is this. I'm definitely not a great limit hold 'em strategist-- I'm just passable on strategy and do what I do mostly through extreme discipline. But I do follow the discussions there, and 99.99 percent of what you would need to become a better limit hold 'em player than I am is posted on that site somewhere. It's really that good-- it's better than any book and any video. You just have to seek it out and work REALLY hard.

IMO...not all poker players have the same objective. Some are just trying to improve to a point where they can find a game that they can consistently beat...and then they keep playing at those stakes forever. I belong to the SECOND group of poker players...who want to see how high they can get on the poker ladder. When you are on the path of constant "improvement"...then books, videos and chat rooms can only help in the INITIAL stage of your journey. The bulk of the work needs to be done while you play the game as much as you can...and then properly analyze your play, AWAY from the table.

Discipline counts more than "theory", IMO...because my experience tells me that few of the great poker "theorists" are able to remain composed enough to properly implement their theory consistently. As Mike Tyson said..."Everybody's got a plan...until they get hit in the mouth".

proximity

10-08-2016, 05:13 AM

IMO...not all poker players have the same objective.

i think it's great that guys like you and dilane have defined your objectives because driving home from a long game tonight i was thinking about not really knowing where i'm going with this? i guess the variety of traveling around to different places is a big part of the enjoyment for me because the thought of committing to a single path is depressing. it's weighing what i enjoy doing in the game against what i can most consistently do.

ultimately i think sacrifices (like my caesar's diamond status) may have to be made? :confused:

hope you are doing well in vegas!!

dilanesp

10-08-2016, 05:39 PM

IMO...not all poker players have the same objective. Some are just trying to improve to a point where they can find a game that they can consistently beat...and then they keep playing at those stakes forever. I belong to the SECOND group of poker players...who want to see how high they can get on the poker ladder. When you are on the path of constant "improvement"...then books, videos and chat rooms can only help in the INITIAL stage of your journey. The bulk of the work needs to be done while you play the game as much as you can...and then properly analyze your play, AWAY from the table.

Discipline counts more than "theory", IMO...because my experience tells me that few of the great poker "theorists" are able to remain composed enough to properly implement their theory consistently. As Mike Tyson said..."Everybody's got a plan...until they get hit in the mouth".

Thas, if you really want to go as far as you possibly can, you get into the realm of advanced math. The truly great players, the Phil Ivey's and Annette Obrestad's of the world, probably understand advanced mathematics on the same level as an Ivy League or MIT math professor. In limit, the handful of people who crush nosebleed stakes online or who win boatloads of money in heads-up games are just absolutely brilliant at high level math, and use it not only to construct balanced ranges against good players to avoid exploitation but also to make the absolutely optimal adjustments against the particular ranges of poor players.

Believe it or not, SOME of that math is actually on "the other site". Especially if you visit the "poker theory" sub-board.

But the math that isn't on the site is basically proprietary-- the only way for someone who does not themselves possess an advanced math degree would be to learn it from someone who has it and uses it, through coaching.

The people who put in this amount of work-- and it is an amazing amount of work-- just dominate at high stakes, with the players who think they are decent and who beat up lower stakes games constituting some of their most reliable customers. If that is your goal, you really have to seek that knowledge out.

Honestly, I don't think it's worth it unless you are a math nerd to begin with who is really fascinated by such things. Much better to just find a level you can reliably beat and remain there while slowly getting better.

thaskalos

10-08-2016, 09:40 PM

Honestly, I don't think it's worth it unless you are a math nerd to begin with who is really fascinated by such things. Much better to just find a level you can reliably beat and remain there while slowly getting better.

Give me a year to acclimate myself to the surroundings...and I make it odds-on that they'll be talking about another "Greek" in Vegas, before long. :cool:

proximity

10-09-2016, 02:06 AM

Give me a year to acclimate myself to the surroundings...and I make it odds-on that they'll be talking about another "Greek" in Vegas, before long. :cool:

can you tell us ANYTHING about how it's going so far?

the lifestyle? what and/ or where you're playing? the sports/horses?

we're starving for info about this move!!

proximity

10-09-2016, 07:37 PM

we last left off with another trip to atlantic city and while we were there i got a pin number for my borgata account and was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of free room offers which i decided to take advantage of with a two night stay.

it's a relaxing ride down to atlantic city and my room, while clean, is possibly a little underwhelming and it occurs to me how spoiled i'm becoming!!

the poker room is dead so i relax with some slots and blackjack. i lose, but nowhere near as much as on my recent birthday trip and after a morning trip over to the boardwalk i return to borgata for an afternoon of 10/20 limit holdem action!

this table is tight and tough. i can't spot the sucker in the first thirty minutes and you know what that means, right?

i'm holding my own though. wins with 77 and AJs put me ahead as the table begins to fill up.

as the afternoon goes on i flop sets with KK and 99 but the table's so tight that i don't win much at all.

first in late i raise 22 and win to move ahead over $120 and facing a raise i look down at JJ. i pump it up to $30 and get heads up against the raiser who flops an ace with AJ.

i'm clinging to a small lead after this setback but i raise another small pair (33) first in from late position again and this time i get to raise the turn when i flop a set. wins with KT (straight) and AK get me up almost $200. with 55 i make a nice check on the river to get the villain to attempt a steal and pick up an extra $20 before finally going a little cold to finish at +200 even.

another good game at the borgata but there's still a lot of poker to be played on the trip as i continue to get experience in this new game and venue!!

thank you for reading!!

game +200 (10/20 lim)
year +128 (42-32)
kk 1-0 (34-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

dilanesp

10-10-2016, 03:23 PM

as the afternoon goes on i flop sets with KK and 99 but the table's so tight that i don't win much at all.

Start thinking about exploitative adjustments when you face this situation.

proximity

10-10-2016, 07:11 PM

Start thinking about exploitative adjustments when you face this situation.

dilane can you comment on playing against a raise at these stakes vs the small stakes games?

proximity

10-11-2016, 05:32 AM

ok poker fans we are back again at the exciting borgata; this time for a relaxing (?) night of 2-4 limit holdem action!!

KTs sees a ten high flop and turns a flush draw. blank on the river but the ten is good and we're off to a positive start.

with AA though i flop a set but four spades come on the board and i lose to a ten high flush.

an angry short stacked terrorist joins the game to my right with intentions to declare jihad on our humble table.

with AT i see another ten high flop and our new friend doesn't like it much when i raise his KT.

that's just too damn bad though and if bin laden doesn't want me to raise there's an easy solution for him...... don't bet.

but osama can't help himself and a half hour later he taps out with J7 off in a capped pot pre flop.

so there's an open seat and that seat is filled by a "reg" who doesn't have a hard time convincing some other regs that i look like a cat named lil jon. ***

"he must be a good looking guy!" i joke.

(crickets chirping at table) :) :rolleyes: :D

shortly after this though i'm the ugliest guy with the prettiest cards as QQ flops a set and turns every regs dream: a high hand!! (QQQ88)

it's $250 every 15 minutes tonight and there's five minutes left in a sparsely populated (for borgata) room.

with just nine seconds left on the clock though we hear the "high hand" cry from across the room though as i'm overtaken by KKK22. :bang:

it's a frustrating beat but in the end i book another win and head up to my classic borgata room to retire as a poker winner for the first night in quite awhile. :)

game +59 (2/4)
year +187 (43-32)
kk 1-0 (35-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

*** not the lil jon you were probably thinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYH7_GzP4Tg

proximity

10-12-2016, 06:43 AM

ok poker fans we are back at atlantic city's amazing borgata for more exciting holdem action!!

at the podium in the front i sign up for 2/4 (8th on list) and 10/20 (18th on list) limit holdem and am quickly called for a new 2/4 game.

i sprint to the table like usain bolt only to find ten "regs" already seated and cards practically in the air. :confused:

some players are threatening to start a new 3/6 limit game at the table right behind where i'm supposed to be so i don't make a fuss about 2/4 only to find out that there's also a list for 3/6 and since i'm not on it i may not get a low limit seat at all..... :rolleyes:

when not everyone shows for the game i do get to play and start off fast with AJ flopping two pair. with KT also on the board at the river though i'm forced to make a crying call which turns out to be good when the villain doesn't have a queen but rather a lower two pair with KT.

Q9 from the big blind sees a queen high flop but i'm outkicked by a tepidly played KQ.

meanwhile a new 10/20 game has been called which will drop me to 8th on the list with two tables running.

but i guess not everyone shows and the next time i get a chance to peek at the list it's completely blank. they didn't even call my initials. :bang:

it's just one frustration after another trying to get into these games at the borgata. sure it's a big poker room, BUT I'M ALWAYS RIGHT IN THE ROOM AND ACTUALLY PLAYING IN ONE OF THEIR GAMES. it's not like i'm down in the cafeteria eating french fries. :rolleyes:

so i quit 3/6 and go camp out right beside the 10/20 tables. sigh....

next: haters rejoice.....

game +19 (3/6 lim)
year +206 (44-32)
kk 0-0 (35-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

dilanesp

10-12-2016, 11:11 AM

dilane can you comment on playing against a raise at these stakes vs the small stakes games?

I will comment a bit more generally.

In a typical 3-6 game like the ones you play in, your raises have no fold equity. Everyone or almost everyone calls, and you end up playing 6 ways for two bets instead of one. In that situation, your raising ranges should be completely honest and should be limited to hands that both have an equity advantage and don't get hurt in a raised pot. That means big pairs, big aces, unpaired broadways, and, if you are first in, good suited connectors and one and two-gappers (say 87s+ 97s+ T7s+). Small and medium pairs prefer a limped pot to a raised pot, because you usually can't win unimproved and want to keep the implied odds down for setmining.

In a 10-20 game, a couple of different things can happen. What you seemed to describe is a game where you picked up fold equity. People were folding and you made very little money even from pocket kings. In this situation, you want to try to open up your raising range, and if you get heads up against a player who makes big laydowns postflop, you want to start bluffing parts of your range.

In other 10-20 games, people will do what they are supposed to do, which is 3-bet or fold in a raised pot (except from the BB). That plays out a bit different. You have to figure out the ranges that are 3-betting you. If they are 3-betting you light, you have to be willing to check-raise bluff some flops and turns with parts of your range to take them off of hands. On the other hand, if they are 3 betting you honest, then you have to play them honestly post-flop.

Finally, many 10-20 games play just like 3-6. In those games, don't change a thing.

As far as when you face a raise, you should never cold-call first in at either limit. So if you are facing a raise, you should generally 3-bet in position if your hand plays well against the raiser's range and fold if it doesn't. (If the player folds a lot post-flop, you can 3-bet lighter.) If you are facing a raise and a call, or a call and a raise, in general you are just looking to play hands that play well in that situation-- 3-bet the top of your range, hands that do well against the raiser, and call with hands that play well multi-way like suited connectors and small and medium pairs.

proximity

10-12-2016, 09:35 PM

I will comment a bit more generally.

In a typical 3-6 game like the ones you play in, your raises have no fold equity. Everyone or almost everyone calls, and you end up playing 6 ways for two bets instead of one. In that situation, your raising ranges should be completely honest and should be limited to hands that both have an equity advantage and don't get hurt in a raised pot. That means big pairs, big aces, unpaired broadways, and, if you are first in, good suited connectors and one and two-gappers (say 87s+ 97s+ T7s+). Small and medium pairs prefer a limped pot to a raised pot, because you usually can't win unimproved and want to keep the implied odds down for setmining.

In a 10-20 game, a couple of different things can happen. What you seemed to describe is a game where you picked up fold equity. People were folding and you made very little money even from pocket kings. In this situation, you want to try to open up your raising range, and if you get heads up against a player who makes big laydowns postflop, you want to start bluffing parts of your range.

In other 10-20 games, people will do what they are supposed to do, which is 3-bet or fold in a raised pot (except from the BB). That plays out a bit different. You have to figure out the ranges that are 3-betting you. If they are 3-betting you light, you have to be willing to check-raise bluff some flops and turns with parts of your range to take them off of hands. On the other hand, if they are 3 betting you honest, then you have to play them honestly post-flop.

Finally, many 10-20 games play just like 3-6. In those games, don't change a thing.

As far as when you face a raise, you should never cold-call first in at either limit. So if you are facing a raise, you should generally 3-bet in position if your hand plays well against the raiser's range and fold if it doesn't. (If the player folds a lot post-flop, you can 3-bet lighter.) If you are facing a raise and a call, or a call and a raise, in general you are just looking to play hands that play well in that situation-- 3-bet the top of your range, hands that do well against the raiser, and call with hands that play well multi-way like suited connectors and small and medium pairs.

thank you for answering and your last paragraph is what i'm talking about.

more pots are raised at 10/20 and with as little as 55 or AT so it seems (especially with no rake) that a wider range should be played against these raises but yet the advice in a book like ciaffone and brier's (which i was mocked here for only being up to page 82 on) seems to be to play just as tight (if not tighter) than against grandma smith's (obvious QQ+) raise at 2/4? :confused:

proximity

10-12-2016, 11:03 PM

ok poker fans we are back at the borgata for another game of exciting 10/20 holdem action!!

we're several hours in an me and another player at my end of the table are just getting pummeled. my friend has a chance with an ace high flush draw when two clubs flop.

fortunately he doesn't hit it because i have the king high draw.

the board runs out K K and i'm finally on the board.

i switch seats to get position on some players and Q9 despite the hours of losing, Q9 from the big blind gives me a chance to get right back in the game when she flops two pair.

ten on the river though and i'm overtaken by QT.

QQ can't fold out a big blind of 85.

8 high flop and another 8 on the river.

at the 3:30 mark i'm down almost $600 before a sudden rally with AA, AK, and AQ gets me back to almost within $200 of even.

when i get AQ again though i lose despite turning two pair and i head to the main game down about $330.

it's back and forth for several hours.

meanwhile a shocking donald trump tape has been released on tv. i'm not sure if a tape of this magnitude has been released since reverend bubba flavel and the county commissioners were caught watching pornos at the end of porky's 2?

one woman's for clinton and says her husband would never talk like that.

several guys though speak out for trump. he seems to be a clear winner among new jersey poker players. the rest of the state; i'm not so sure.

but there's no time to play wolf hannity here. my undefeated "ten" record's in jeopardy, the clock is ticking, and unless you call 92 a hand......

eventually though i raise AJ and seemingly strike gold:

flop AJ3. :)

villain: 33. :bang:

it's been a horrible game but a little more than eleven hours in i have one final chance to turn it around.

an early position player raises my big blind and almost the whole table calls.

i call with 76.

flop: 985 :cool:

but the board runs out A A and when the original raiser tables 55 i'm denied an ENORMOUS pot.

instead i suffer the largest (financial) loss in proximity tour history. :bang:

since i'd just pulled back ahead for the year the game reminded me a lot of 2015's "vacation" drubbing at maryland live!. it was a hard report for me to write and it sucks, but it is what it is. before the haters pile on too high though note that i'm still ahead at the limit and i'm getting valuable experience as well as free rooms and comp $ at the borgata.

thank you for reading.

game -553 (10/20 lim)
year -347 (44-33)
kk 0-0 (35-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

thaskalos

10-12-2016, 11:29 PM

thank you for answering and your last paragraph is what i'm talking about.

more pots are raised at 10/20 and with as little as 55 or AT so it seems (especially with no rake) that a wider range should be played against these raises but yet the advice in a book like ciaffone and brier's (which i was mocked here for only being up to page 82 on) seems to be to play just as tight (if not tighter) than against grandma smith's (obvious QQ+) raise at 2/4? :confused:

I knew that you took offense at my comments here...that's why I stopped posting in your thread. My prime motivation when making that comment wasn't to "mock you"...nor was it I who recommended that book to you. What did you want me to do...encourage you to jump into the 10/20 game when every indication that you had given us here was that you were underfunded for that sort of game? I told you that you may not be ready for the swings that you were going to experience in the 10/20 game, because I saw how despondent and discouraged you would get over a $100 loss in the lower limits...and you told me that you felt you handled yourself pretty well in your initial journey into the higher limits...as if one or two sessions in the 10/20 game really MEANS anything.

It doesn't matter what happens in the short run in poker, Proximity...the LONG run is what counts. You talk to us about particular hands, and you seem to be asking for "advice"...but you don't tell us anything about where your bankroll stands in all of this. You need MONEY in order to play regularly at the 10/20 game...regardless of what you think about your "skill level". You kept on telling us about your car problems...and about how you would drive hours to the casino with only a single buy-in in your pocket...and I am supposed to think that you are ready for regular ventures into the 10/20 game?

If you wanted me to stroke your ego with words of encouragement about jumping into a 10/20 game without an adequate bankroll...then, I am sorry to have disappointed you. When I give someone an opinion, I pay him the compliment of addressing him seriously...and telling him the truth, as I see it. And, please...don't tell me again that you have enough money to play in such a game...because I just saw you spend 9 days in Vegas without playing a single hand of 10/20 poker...even though you talked non-stop here about playing in that game, before you left. You said that you couldn't find a regular 10/20 game in Vegas...and yet, I haven't walked into a single cardroom here without virtually tripping over exactly such a game.

proximity

10-12-2016, 11:55 PM

I knew that you took offense at my comments here...that's why I stopped posting in your thread. My prime motivation when making that comment wasn't to "mock you"...nor was it I who recommended that book to you. What did you want me to do...encourage you to jump into the 10/20 game when every indication that you had given us here was that you were underfunded for that sort of game? I told you that you may not be ready for the swings that you were going to experience in the 10/20 game, because I saw how despondent and discouraged you would get over a $100 loss in the lower limits...and you told me that you felt you handled yourself pretty well in your initial journey into the higher limits...as if one or two sessions in the 10/20 game really MEANS anything.

It doesn't matter what happens in the short run in poker, Proximity...the LONG run is what counts. You talk to us about particular hands, and you seem to be asking for "advice"...but you don't tell us anything about where your bankroll stands in all of this. You need MONEY in order to play regularly at the 10/20 game...regardless of what you think about your "skill level". You kept on telling us about your car problems...and about how you would drive hours to the casino with only a single buy-in in your pocket...and I am supposed to think that you are ready for regular ventures into the 10/20 game?

If you wanted me to stroke your ego with words of encouragement about jumping into a 10/20 game without an adequate bankroll...then, I am sorry to have disappointed you. When I give someone an opinion, I pay him the compliment of addressing him seriously...and telling him the truth, as I see it. And, please...don't tell me again that you have enough money to play in such a game...because I just saw you spend 9 days in Vegas without playing a single hand of 10/20 poker...even though you talked non-stop here about playing in that game, before you left. You said that you couldn't find a regular 10/20 game in Vegas...and yet, I haven't walked into a single cardroom here without virtually tripping over exactly such a game.

i did take offense to that. not so much that i'm not rooting for you and interested in your move to vegas because i'd LOVE to hear about it and i'm sure everyone else here would too. it really is great and i'm happy and excited for you.

since even at this level i seem to be one of the tightest players (if not thee tightest) when i read a book i'm looking for tips to make me looser; both less exploitable and to get thinner value. it seemed that you didn't respect my ability to make a quick judgement about the book being somewhat tagfishy for my goals? similarly in your above post you have to remind me that gambling is a long term game?? really?

i shared stuff about my car and different situations in the past because it adds context and some interest to the posts..... not to have "implications" about my finances shoved back in my face years later. sometimes everything goes right in life and gambling and other times when it rains it pours. i thought these things added a little spice to the stories other than just talking about folding J6 off suit all night?

finally anyone can look on bravo and see when a 10/20 limit game is running in vegas. it sometimes goes at the bellagio, but where else?? most of the time i was there the limit at bellagio went straight from 4/8 to 20/40. ten went on sunday when i was there and i missed it. life goes on.

ReplayRandall

10-13-2016, 12:14 AM

i did take offense to that. not so much that i'm not rooting for you and interested in your move to vegas because i'd LOVE to hear about it and i'm sure everyone else here would too. it really is great and i'm happy and excited for you.

since even at this level i seem to be one of the tightest players (if not thee tightest) when i read a book i'm looking for tips to make me looser; both less exploitable and to get thinner value. it seemed that you didn't respect my ability to make a quick judgement about the book being somewhat tagfishy for my goals? similarly in your above post you have to remind me that gambling is a long term game?? really?

i shared stuff about my car and different situations in the past because it adds context and some interest to the posts..... not to have "implications" about my finances shoved back in my face years later. sometimes everything goes right in life and gambling and other times when it rains it pours. i thought these things added a little spice to the stories other than just talking about folding J6 off suit all night?

finally anyone can look on bravo and see when a 10/20 limit game is running in vegas. it sometimes goes at the bellagio, but where else?? most of the time i was there the limit at bellagio went straight from 4/8 to 20/40. ten went on sunday when i was there and i missed it. life goes on.

Proxy, this post by Thaskalos isn't a "I told you so" post. I'm vouching for Gus because he KNOWS and so do I. Whatever you do, don't take this advice lightly, it's absolute straight fire. Believe it or not, Gus is here to help by telling you the truth about the game. I humbly have as much experience of dealing, supervising and playing limit hold'em at this level, and the highest of levels, as anybody on this board.....We're here to give professional advice with helpful intentions, ONLY, and for no other reason. You're a straight-shooter and a good guy, we both want you to succeed....BTW, I also believe Dilan does too.

proximity

10-13-2016, 12:29 AM

1-3 NL HOLDEM 5
1500-3000 MIXED 1
40-80 HOLDEM 1
5-10 NL HOLDEM 2
20-40 HOLDEM 1
4-8 Holdem 1/2 Kill 1
20-40 OMAHA 8/B 1/2 KILL 1
10-20 NL HOLDEM 1
20-20 CHINESE POKER 1
2-5 NL HOLDEM 6
80-160 MIXED 1

bellagio. wednesday 9:00 pm.

there's a 9-18 list with one name on it. :bang:

proximity

10-13-2016, 12:53 AM

Proxy, this post by Thaskalos isn't a "I told you so" post. I'm vouching for Gus because he KNOWS and so do I. Whatever you do, don't take this advice lightly, it's absolute straight fire. Believe it or not, Gus is here to help by telling you the truth about the game. I humbly have as much experience of dealing, supervising and playing limit hold'em at this level, and the highest of levels, as anybody on this board.....We're here to give professional advice with helpful intentions, ONLY, and for no other reason. You're a straight-shooter and a good guy, we both want you to succeed....BTW, I also believe Dilan does too.

i find some of his jabs to be condescending but i do like and respect the guy and all of you guys really here on poker.

and you talk about truth. i love truth.

my personal truth (that i guess i'm a sucker for admitting on the internet) is that i'm DONE as a gambler. the money (relatively) as a horseplayer has just gotten too smart for me (although i'm again hanging on by a thread to another calendar year win, albeit with severely reduced handle). i had a good run. nothing to be ashamed of for sure but any glory days are basically over.

in gambling "retirement" i'd like to win $2000 a year(in the games) as a poker player. i have more talent and enjoy limit poker more than no limit but i have to admit i'm probably not going to do this at 3/6. (probably dilane would even struggle) given my long history of results at 3/6 it figures i will sometimes lose 3x as much at 10/20. so there WILL potentially be $900-$1000 losing sessions..... although overall it seems to be a (much) lower variance game.

thaskalos also commented about me getting despondent about losing $100 at 3/6. the $100 doesn't bother me but i'm a competitive person so the 16-17 big bet loss DOES bother me, especially against bad players but of course it's just part of the game.

thaskalos

10-13-2016, 01:22 AM

i find some of his jabs to be condescending but i do like and respect the guy and all of you guys really here on poker.

and you talk about truth. i love truth.

my personal truth (that i guess i'm a sucker for admitting on the internet) is that i'm DONE as a gambler. the money (relatively) as a horseplayer has just gotten too smart for me (although i'm again hanging on by a thread to another calendar year win, albeit with severely reduced handle). i had a good run. nothing to be ashamed of for sure but any glory days are basically over.

in gambling "retirement" i'd like to win $2000 a year(in the games) as a poker player. i have more talent and enjoy limit poker more than no limit but i have to admit i'm probably not going to do this at 3/6. (probably dilane would even struggle) given my long history of results at 3/6 it figures i will sometimes lose 3x as much at 10/20. so there WILL potentially be $900-$1000 losing sessions..... although overall it seems to be a (much) lower variance game.

thaskalos also commented about me getting despondent about losing $100 at 3/6. the $100 doesn't bother me but i'm a competitive person so the 16-17 big bet loss DOES bother me, especially against bad players but of course it's just part of the game.

I have no particular need to be "liked or respected" by the people with whom I don't regularly associate. If I wanted to be liked and respected on this board, then I would tell everybody exactly what they wanted to hear...and they would all reply by telling me how smart they think I am. I have spent an entire LIFE in the different gambling arenas, and I have seen too much maiming and bleeding taking place...a lot of it occurring to ME! I didn't have a "knack" for gambling...nor was I some sort of "gifted" player. I made myself the way I am PIECE BY PIECE...and it wouldn't have been as arduous or as bloody a journey if I had someone that I could depend on to teach me the ropes. I have spent a lot of time on this board, and have written thousands of lengthy posts...with only one objective in mind: To tell the truth as I see it...and to try to provide the sort of advice that I wish I myself had when I needed it the most. And if I am called "condescending" at times, or am told that I "throw things in people's faces"...then so be it. When it comes to serious gambling...the end justifies the means, IMO. If even ONE poster here has a slightly less turbulent gambling journey as a result of what I say...then I am willing to risk having the occasional post of mine interpreted as a "jab"...or to receive a jab or two in return.

proximity

10-13-2016, 01:45 AM

I have no particular need to be "liked or respected" by the people with whom I don't regularly associate. If I wanted to be liked and respected on this board, then I would tell everybody exactly what they wanted to hear...and they would all reply by telling me how smart they think I am. I have spent an entire LIFE in the different gambling arenas, and I have seen too much maiming and bleeding taking place...a lot of it occurring to ME! I didn't have a "knack" for gambling...nor was I some sort of "gifted" player. I made myself the way I am PIECE BY PIECE...and it wouldn't have been as arduous or as bloody a journey if I had someone that I could depend on to teach me the ropes. I have spent a lot of time on this board, and have written thousands of lengthy posts...with only one objective in mind: To tell the truth as I see it...and to try to provide the sort of advice that I wish I myself had when I needed it the most. And if I am called "condescending" at times, or am told that I "throw things in people's faces"...then so be it. When it comes to serious gambling...the end justifies the means, IMO. If even ONE poster here has a slightly less turbulent gambling journey as a result of what I say...then I am willing to risk having the occasional post of mine interpreted as a "jab"...or to receive a jab or two in return.

full card simulcasting, two racing forms a day. handicapping, betting, pace figures and trips. was never much into trainers but their importance obviously rose over time. rinse and repeat. i think most of us here have seen our fair share or more of blood.

granted i was never into all the different gambling that you are as the above schedule was enough for me so i do respect where you're coming from whether you care if i do or not. i'm not another poster on here just saying stuff. it is what it is.

barn32

10-13-2016, 06:32 AM

more pots are raised at 10/20 and with as little as 55 or AT so it seems (especially with no rake) that a wider range should be played...I'm not really following this thread too closely, but this line did jump out at me when I was skimming through, so I may have missed the context.

No rake? Is this true, and where exactly are you talking about?

Thanks

proximity

10-13-2016, 11:25 AM

I'm not really following this thread too closely, but this line did jump out at me when I was skimming through, so I may have missed the context.

No rake? Is this true, and where exactly are you talking about?

Thanks

it's a time game. $5 a dealer.

DeltaLover

10-13-2016, 12:29 PM

....
game -553 (10/20 lim)
year -347 (44-33)
kk 0-0 (35-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

Although I have no experience of holdem games lower than 20-40 limit, my feeling is that the lower you get the more unbeatable the game becomes due to the rake and probably the passiveness of the players.

There is nothing strange or uncommon about your recent loss in the 10 game.

If you want to become successfull in poker you need to become familiar with the related statistics that explain the behaviour of bankroll and its peaks and valleys.

Even if you are a winning player (which most likely you are not) your standard deviation will be large enough to justify your loss of $500 like a very expected and natural outcome.

Assuming that you are a very good 10 player who can squeeze a one big bet proffit per hour, your standard deviation will be around 10 times larger than this or 10 X 20 = $200. What this means is that a $600 swing is completely justified and it will happen relatively often (it can go both ways of course, either winning or losing). Please keep in mind that we are talking about per hour swings, something that means that playing longer can very well increase this levels.

thaskalos also commented about me getting despondent about losing $100 at 3/6. the $100 doesn't bother me but i'm a competitive person so the 16-17 big bet loss DOES bother me, especially against bad players but of course it's just part of the game.

At this point it should be clear that the 16-17 BB loss is absolutely normal and it does not need to concern you at all.

since even at this level i seem to be one of the tightest players (if not thee tightest) when i read a book i'm looking for tips to make me looser; both less exploitable and to get thinner value. it seemed that you didn't respect my ability to make a quick judgement about the book being somewhat tagfishy for my goals? similarly in your above post you have to remind me that gambling is a long term game?? really?

Been one of the tightest players (especially in such a low limit as 3-6), should alarm you. Playing tight is by no means the way to make money especially in today's games.

Very friendly I believe that you should rethink your game and try to understand your leaks and improve in things like hand reading, theory of poker, bluffing, game theory, range over range, tells etc.

lamboguy

10-13-2016, 12:42 PM

Although I have no experience of holdem games lower than 20-40 limit, my feeling is that the lower you get the more unbeatable the game becomes due to the rake and probably the passiveness of the players.

There is nothing strange or uncommon about your recent loss in the 10 game.

If you want to become successfull in poker you need to become familiar with the related statistics that explain the behaviour of bankroll and its peaks and valleys.

Even if you are a winning player (which most likely you are not) your standard deviation will be large enough to justify your loss of $500 like a very expected and natural outcome.

Assuming that you are a very good 10 player who can squeeze a one big bet proffit per hour, your standard deviation will be around 10 times larger than this or 10 X 20 = $200. What this means is that a $600 swing is completely justified and it will happen relatively often (it can go both ways of course, either winning or losing). Please keep in mind that we are talking about per hour swings, something that means that playing longer can very well increase this levels.

At this point it should be clear that the 16-17 BB loss is absolutely normal and it does not need to concern you at all.

Been one of the tightest players (especially in such a low limit as 3-6), should alarm you. Playing tight is by no means the way to make money especially in today's games.

Very friendly I believe that you should rethink your game and try to understand your leaks and improve in things like hand reading, theory of poker, bluffing, game theory, range over range, tells etc.the first job i had in Vegas was dealing a 1-4 game at the Sahara Hotel. it was a no ante low man brings in the bet for $1. there were guys that sat there all day waiting for suckers to sit down. in this 7 stud game they would only play kings and aces, if they had a pair of kings and an ace came up in someone's hand and that person bet he was an automatic fold. those guys used to sit there for 10 hours a day and made an average of $25 a day going against a 10% chop. on a good day i made more in tips.

DeltaLover

10-13-2016, 12:45 PM

the first job i had in Vegas was dealing a 1-4 game at the Sahara Hotel. it was a no ante low man brings in the bet for $1. there were guys that sat there all day waiting for suckers to sit down. in this 7 stud game they would only play kings and aces, if they had a pair of kings and an ace came up in someone's hand and that person bet he was an automatic fold. those guys used to sit there for 10 hours a day and made an average of $25 a day going against a 10% chop. on a good day i made more in tips.

What you describe here consists an extremely weak and pathetic approach to the game and definitely an example to avoid. Poker is way more complicated and requires way more sophisticated skills to be beaten.

thaskalos

10-13-2016, 12:49 PM

...similarly in your above post you have to remind me that gambling is a long term game?? really?

Yes...when you declare that you get "bothered" when some "inferior" players beat you out of 17 big blinds in a sitting...then I feel I need to remind you that gambling is a long-term game. When you say that you are "looking for advice"...then people will offer you ADVICE...and some of it might sound "condescending" to you. If you are simply fishing for compliments here...then just say so.

dilanesp

10-13-2016, 12:50 PM

dilanesp

10-13-2016, 12:59 PM

thaskalos

10-13-2016, 01:24 PM

The best way to make money in poker is to not care about it.

EXACTLY!...and this goes DOUBLE in the NL games, where the money is lost in big chunks.

Proximity started his poker journey by playing NL...and he would buy in for $60 in the 1/2 NL games. This in itself isn't necessarily bad, because short-stack play can be an advantage...but it has to be part of a well thought-out playing strategy. Proximity would lose $35 in an early bad beat, and he would continue playing while nursing a $25 stack...without reloading. When I told him that he has to reload in cases such as this...he would tell me that he "isn't made of money"...and that he is "trying to limit his risk".

The poker gods don't give a shit about how much we need the money that we have in our pocket when we sit down at the poker table. When we sit down to play poker, then we have to play the game as well as we possibly can...and no one can be effective at the poker table when he is afraid of losing the money that he has in front of him.

Someone hears me say this, and he might conclude that I am being "condescending", while giving the impression that I am "made of money". But I am only stating a FACT.

proximity

10-13-2016, 01:26 PM

BTW, thask is right about long term versus short term.

I will tell you, don't feel bad. There are players I consider to be very good players playing in 20/40 and 40/80 games in LA who have this leak. I really never had it only because I had a substantial amount of experience playing online before Black Friday. Seeing a swing play out over 12,000 hands is enough to convince anyone that nothing that happens over a 6 hour session (about 200 hands) is remotely significant.

But you do have to basically just treat the thing like a baseball season. The chips are just the scorecard, and there are 162 games to play. And nobody, not even the best players, goes 140-22 or anything like that. If you feel horrible about losing money in the short term, you just can' t play poker. If you can teach yourself to not care one bit what happens in a session other than whether you played well and made good decisions, you will be well on your way. The best way to make money in poker is to not care about it.

i do feel bad (not extremely bad, lol) because i'm a bum who is repeatedly told here that i can't beat 3/6 because of the rake and that i can't beat 10/20 because i'm not good enough and don't have a "bankroll" to go to the borgata for a handful of sessions a month. :rolleyes:

unlike yourself i don't see me and nine fish at borgata tables. but it's not like the table's filled with players who could even duplicate my results at 3/6. i wouldn't say i'm outclassed at all but there's certainly room for improvement and at least i know what to look for.

i don't feel "horrible" driving home from losing sessions but i confess that i'm not exactly happy about it. i wouldn't say it's a "leak" though until it starts causing me to tilt..... which it doesn't.

DeltaLover

10-13-2016, 01:30 PM

EXACTLY!...and this goes DOUBLE in the NL games, where the money is lost in big chunks.

Proximity started his poker journey by playing NL...and he would buy in for $60 in the 1/2 NL games. This in itself isn't necessarily bad, because short-stack play can be an advantage...but it has to be part of a well thought-out playing strategy. Proximity would lose $35 in an early bad beat, and he would continue playing while nursing a $25 stack...without reloading. When I told him that he has to reload in cases such as this...he would tell me that he "isn't made of money"...and that he is "trying to limit his risk".

The poker gods don't give a shit about how much we need the money that we have in our pocket when we sit down at the poker table. When we sit down to play poker, then we have to play the game as well as we possibly can...and no one can be effective at the poker table when he is afraid of losing the money that he has in front of him.

Someone hears me say this, and he might conclude that I am being "condescending", while giving the impression that I am "made of money". But I am only stating a FACT.

:ThmbUp:

Whoever doubts that you are stating a FACT obviously needs to go back to the whiteboard and reevaluate his knowledge.

proximity

10-15-2016, 10:26 PM

breaking news from that other site:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/199/poker-venues/bellagio-las-vegas-nv-1153406/index15.html

"ten" is dead in vegas. :(

i saw "nine" did run until about 7:00 today @ bellagio although there was no list so idk how strong this game was?

bellagio also had 2 20s and a 40 but other than that there wasn't a lhe game higher than 4/8 in the whole town.

no wonder roy cooke moved to nl.....

proximity

10-18-2016, 05:55 PM

https://www.mgmnationalharbor.com/en/community/grand-opening-date.html

charles town soon to be reduced to just a handful of locals rooting for joseph schneider horses.

the mile long waiting lists and insane plo action fade to a mere speck the rearview mirror.

proximity

10-20-2016, 06:48 PM

too many bad days on this year's tour; both on the felt and off.

and this is yet another one as i struggle to find a decent pair of dress pants at jc penney. i'm looking for some haggar's but almost everything on the rack is a 42" waist. :bang:

finally i settle on a cheap pair of lee's and head out to hollywood penn national for some exciting 24 action.

i lose several times with AJ and AK as well as with trip aces.

meanwhile a friend from racing enters the game and scores a quick hit and run with trip tens.

an hour later i win my only pot of the game when KJ turns two pair after a jack high flop. fortunately i was up against an aggressive small blind who had QJ but still this one pot wasn't enough.

i lose $13 and join my friend and his wife for some ice cream. the ice cream is about the only value left at penn national but i noted that the prices seemed to sneak up a bit?

first a "my cousin vinnie" menu in the racing clubhouse and now rising ice cream prices in the casino?

maybe penn national's trying to keep my blu pool abs from growing into 42" haggar's??

thanks for looking out for me guys!!

game -13 (2/4)
year -360 (44-34)
kk 0-0 (35-33)
promo 0 (1042)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

10-22-2016, 10:14 PM

ok poker fans we're back with more excitement from the mid-atlantic felts and for today's action we return to maryland.

with 2017 caesar's diamond status already locked up i grab some promo chips at horseshoe (the chips are back) before heading down to maryland live! where i hope to upgrade my humble red card to the still humble, but better, GOLD CARD.

blue chips are apparently gone and i buy $200 red for this overnight 4/8 affair.

things don't go well.

i flop an ace with AQ and AK twice but lose all three hands.

with QQ i turn a set but end up losing this hand as well.

charm city whiz is in the house and looks on as i win one of my only hands of the contest.

with 88 i channel my inner dilane and three bet to $12. only one player calls the three cold and the original raiser is all in. i survive a ten high flop and my river bet even gets called when another dime falls on the river. no ten or over pair is out and i get to actually experience dragging a pot!!

unfortunately this game starts to get short and i rack up with a $145 loss.

i do have a nice crab and eggs breakfast at phillips so the trip isn't a total loss. and back at horseshoe i win $50 out of $80 of promo chips to get going in the promo category again.

thank you for reading!

game -145 (4/8)
year -505 (44-35)
kk 0-0 (35-33)
promo 50 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

10-26-2016, 02:58 AM

my all-time favorite trip in gambling is the drive to charles town and fearing for the poker future of this racino, for today's report i decide to head down to possibly experience one of my final games there.

i know i've said this before but it seems more real now that an opening date has finally been revealed for the new mgm national harbor. on the drive down i curse pen gaming once and then vow just to enjoy the day.

things start out well as i win twice each with big pairs AA and KK!!

but the locals dig in. A7s flops two pair and holds off the flush draws but can't fold out 99. turn: 9. :mad: 54s flops a five and a flush draw from the big blind. i miss the flush but turn a four that's not enough as it gives 73o (limped early!!) a gutshot straight. :mad: AQ flops a queen but 86o (also limped early!!) hangs in to river three sixes. :mad:

down $45 i'm about to break the game as the table's getting short. but when another player suddenly show up i agree to stay to keep the game going. this time my good deed is rewarded as i storm back to finish with an $8 win!!

out at the track luck is on my side as i win the first two races but get lucky both times.

i start with a filly named ormond moon against brandon kulp's open pit. i watch in frustration as my price goes down and then ormond moon can't get by open pit.

but there's an inquiry and objection. one horse went down as BOTH open pit and ormond moon seemed to come in at the start. ultimately though the stewards blame open pit and elevate ormond moon to first!!

in the second i prefer the price on out of towner jump for kitten but note that local arkaybee will be tough. i miss the exacta when arkaybee comes out of the gate several lengths slow but his misfortune helps me collect $15.60 on jump for kitten. lucky again!!

i was tempted to bet against ap shipper ulysses in the 8th (he lost) but unfortunately didn't pull the trigger and ended up passing the rest of the card.

one thing that's always amazed me about this trip is this beautiful ann margret looking girl that works the late shift at a mcdonald's on the way home.

poor man's ann seems as out of place as the queen of england in a porta potty and i've always been curious about what she's doing there. but is there ever a good time to ask what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?

maybe i'm just mc chicken to ask her any questions beyond why the ice cream machine's always broken after 10:00?

anyhow no mcdonald's tonight as i drive straight home and it's a good thing since i collapse exhausted in bed before the local bars have even closed.

my "emd" days would feature ten race cards, french toast at the mountainview, and drinks and dances at the huddle club/divas.

now a little poker and a mere eight racer wipes me out??

thank you for reading.

game +8 (3/6)
year -497 (45-35)
kk 2-0 (37-33)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

11-02-2016, 04:45 AM

anyone watching the tournament??

what a hand that was!!

AQ vs Qs5s!!

proximity

11-06-2016, 11:23 PM

ok poker fans we are back in action with another exciting trip to wonderful atlantic city!!

we begin our trip with a two night stay at caesars.

this is actually my first ever time staying at caesars and i've booked a comp room with a view of the atlantic in the aptly named ocean tower. of course when i arrive i'm switched to the centurion tower. :bang:

now i don't complain..... although it makes no sense that my reserved room is not available on a very slow wednesday night at caesars? :confused:

anyhow my centurion room is nice enough and after spending the night grinding out a few dollars at caesars we head over to bally's thursday morning to kick off the poker with some 246 limit action.

( for readers who have never played there bally's and caesars are connected and basically the same large casino. the poker room is in the "wild west" section of bally's that's just feet from an escalator that connects to caesars.)

today's game is a very passive affair and i fall behind immediately when i raise 77 only to be beaten at showdown by a limped QQ.

99 falls to Q3 but AA beats a KK that doesn't three bet me!! like i said, it's a VERY passive game today at bally's!!

in yet another passive hand with 88 i raise a limped KK and fortunately flop a set!! and when ATs turns a flush i hold off two sets to move ahead $66.

after this however i'm card dead for hours and hold on for a frustrating $26 win. in a nice gesture my play earns me a $15 food credit from bally's which i use towards a delectable general tso's chicken at bally's noodle village.

no more poker on this stay as i spend the night relaxing with some double diamond slots and a crown and cola.

next: return to borgata!! :eek:

game +26 (246 lim)
year -471 (46-35)
kk 0-0 (37-33)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

Track Collector

11-07-2016, 01:32 PM

proximity

11-07-2016, 06:25 PM

I had the following hand the about 3 weeks ago:

Flop comes 8 K 3 rainbow.

A moderately loose and aggressive player on my right with a stack size of about $800 goes all-in. I recall something like about $40 in the pot before the all-in decision. I have pocket 3's and call the balance of my $300 starting stack.

Turn is an 8.

River is an 8.

Villain tables AKo.

Just goes to show how tough it can be to win at this game.

Now I just have to try to grind out enough +EV decisions to recoup.

i'm sorry to read about this horrible, horrible hand.

the poker can be a depressing and lonely existence but at the same time addicting as the excitement builds for the next big game.

are you going to mgm on december 8th??

proximity

11-08-2016, 04:34 AM

ok poker fans we are back in atlantic city where we move our game over to the amazing borgata!!

just a one night stay....this time in their "water club" tower... but we'll get in two full days and nights of play starting off with another intense 10/20 limit contest.

we start off hearing some bad news that a borgata regular has died. our dealer confirmed that he was indeed a "ten" regular and very diplomatically described the deceased as an "action player." anyhow, i was just sitting beside the guy (to his left ;) ) the last time i was there and never suspected it was the last time i'd see him playing. so this was sad to hear.

back on the felt i start off bad in this one. especially from late position where i'm seeing plenty of J3 and J4 off suits. eventually though i make a small rally and look to move ahead when i turn a straight with 77. however another seven hits the river to put a straight on the board and i settle for a frustrating chop. and it's mostly downhill from there.

AK falls to T8 which rivers two pair against me. i'm quickly dealt AK again but this time run into AA. KQ also runs into AA. losses with 77, AJ, and AK (again) follow and i move from this must move table to the main game down $230.

in the main game i look to get back into it with KK and get help when another player three bets!! however another "action player" calls $30 with 43 and turns a straight against me. :bang:

unfortunately after this run of losses with good cards i go completely card dead again. eventually i flop top pair in a hand but the same action player sucks out against me again.... this time with 63. :bang:

a loss with JJ put me down well over $600. eventually i rally with a flush but it's way too little too late.

i probably should have kept my chips on the table but instead cash out completely to go check into my water club room. unfortunately it's another bad pounding at the borgata.

next: you're playing what?? :eek:

game -579 (10/20 lim)
year -1050 (46-36)
kk 0-1 (37-34)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

dilanesp

11-08-2016, 02:57 PM

in the main game i look to get back into it with KK and get help when another player three bets!! however another "action player" calls $30 with 43 and turns a straight against me. :bang:

This reminds me of a day I spent at an Indian casino. They had a single table of 20/40 full kill with a bunch of players who obviously knew each other and played each other once a week when the game went.

On the first orbit, the kill was on (so the hand was 40/80), and an aggressive player raised from early position, and I 3-bet QQ. A passive player on the button cold-called the three bets, the killer and the blinds folded. The flop came 645, I bet out and the cold-caller raised very confidently. the initial raiser folded, and I called down as two bricks hit on the turn and the river.

The player turned over 32 offsuit, looked at me, and said "we gamble here".

proximity

11-09-2016, 08:37 PM

The player turned over 32 offsuit, looked at me, and said "we gamble here".

lol a guy like that probably folds for $20 there. :rolleyes:

unfortunately i have more of these hands on the trip and this is pretty much how 2016's been going for me from the beginning.

proximity

11-09-2016, 09:07 PM

ok poker fans we're back at the borgata where it seems the whole world's against me after another 10/20 massacre.

i've left the game to check into my water club room which is very new and features a great view of the marina, ocean, and city!!

after getting some supper and a snapple in borgata's newly renovated downstairs cafeteria section i return to the poker room and get on 3/6 and 10/20 limit lists which don't budge an inch as i patiently walk around with my chips.

eventually i break down and make my season debut in what i call america's game: 1-2 no limit texas hold'em. :eek: :eek: :eek:

i get a "lite" feeling as i approach the open seat.

despite spending a long day playing three bet rag calling "action players" it seems like i'm taking a class drop when i sit down here?

i strike quickly with 77 from the big blind.

an early player raises, the small blind calls, and i call.

despite just losing to 43 in the big 10/20 game i toss out a series of small bets following a flop containing a jack and two cards smaller than seven. eventually the raiser folds the river and we're off to a positive return in no limit play!!

with AA i face a field of limpers from late position and raise to $15, getting heads up with a player who limped AQs behind several of the earlier limpers.

the villain flops two hearts and i bet and shove when a third heart misses the turn. he tables the draw and ultimately folds.

although this ends up being a successful return to no limit play i should've just kept my chips on the 10/20 table and simply missed an orbit to check into the water club. and now i make a second mistake by leaving this relaxing no limit game when my 3/6 seat opens in the back of the room.

uhh? everyone's going to quit that game when the high hand promotion ends at 10:00 proximity!!

i've got to get it together here at borgata. :bang:

game +68 (1/2 nl)
year -982 (47-36)
kk 0-0 (37-34)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

11-11-2016, 12:35 AM

ok poker fans we are back at the exciting borgata where i've just broken down and played my first no limit game of the year. at least it was a win.

our next contest is a late evening 3/6 limit game that starts to get a little short after the high hand period ends.

i start out fast in this one with an early flush but it's all downhill from there.

a bloated roberts blossom (home alone, christine,....) lookalike enters the game (these guys are ubiquitous in casinos) and two seats to my left calls every raise i make. sometimes he has dominated hands and sometimes pure rags but one thing is consistent: he wins every single time. :bang:

game -70 (3/6 lim)
year -1052 (47-37)
kk 0-0 (37-34)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

JohnStones

11-11-2016, 05:13 PM

Track Collector

11-12-2016, 03:55 AM

I experienced this hand tonight while playing 1/2 NL at Hollywood Casino at Charles Town Races:

I raise $10 preflop from early position and get 4 callers.

Flop comes up 6 8 2 rainbow.

I bet $25, and the player to my left goes all in with their remaining $62.
I call the $37 balance.

Turn is a 6.

River is a K.

My opponent turns over pocket deuces, then I table pocket Kings.

Kind of evens out the previously mentioned tough-luck hand. :)

davew

11-12-2016, 04:20 PM

How many watched this year WSOP FT? Quite entertaining final it was, worth checking. Here's one hand before the final table, fiery action I would say :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBtdBd0u-jA

I watched quite a bit, even 3 days of final. I liked Kassouf, but not sure I would being at the same table if he took 5 minutes every hand...

proximity

11-12-2016, 05:20 PM

Kind of evens out the previously mentioned tough-luck hand. :)

not really.

sure it was a bad river card, but 22 is a fold pre-flop with that stack size.

proximity

11-15-2016, 06:43 AM

RunForTheRoses

11-17-2016, 03:39 PM

dilanesp

11-17-2016, 06:50 PM

Wow they called some real bad hands against you in 10/20, 2 4?

The average 10/20 or similar live game is ridiculously easy for a good player. The only issue is rake.

proximity

11-17-2016, 07:42 PM

Wow they called some real bad hands against you in 10/20, 2 4?

I think the worst, at least for me, is when you have AK and a King flops, along with that Jake. Situations like that, especially if it were NL, can be big losers for me.

Still enjoy your posts, it just goes to show it ain't easy.

there are some really bad players there. so far they have my number but it won't last forever. i'm more concerned about the better players and making sure i'm getting enough value in my hands against them. since they aren't usually the ones putting the bad beats on me the potential leaked bet here or there is more subtle.

glad to hear you like the posts and hope others still do as well!!

proximity

11-17-2016, 07:51 PM

The average 10/20 or similar live game is ridiculously easy for a good player. The only issue is rake.

so far i've lost $397 in six games there so the time rake is beating me.

i've been studying your posts on "that other site" and a six-max internet book called winning short-handed strategies by borer, mak, and tanenbaum to try to make some adjustments without getting too far away from my normal system.

you seem to be even more aggressive in ring than they are at 6 max but i'm making it all work.

i'm thinking of getting this poker-genius bot program to practice some situations. does anyone have any experience with this?? :confused:

ReplayRandall

11-17-2016, 08:06 PM

i've been studying your posts on "that other site" and
you seem to be even more aggressive in ring than they are at 6 max but i'm making it all work.

I always knew we were getting Dilan's "leftovers", here at PA.....:lol:

proximity

11-17-2016, 08:32 PM

I always knew we were getting Dilan's "leftovers", here at PA.....:lol:

:D :D :D

hey, belated birthday wishes rr!! :)

dilanesp

11-17-2016, 10:48 PM

so far i've lost $397 in six games there so the time rake is beating me.

i've been studying your posts on "that other site" and a six-max internet book called winning short-handed strategies by borer, mak, and tanenbaum to try to make some adjustments without getting too far away from my normal system.

you seem to be even more aggressive in ring than they are at 6 max but i'm making it all work.

i'm thinking of getting this poker-genius bot program to practice some situations. does anyone have any experience with this?? :confused:

I think a much better idea is to make a small deposit into one of the US-facing online sites that has limit. (I play on Carbon, but I hear there are better games on Ignition.)

You will find that online low-stakes 6-max is about 5 times more difficult than 10/20 at Borgata, and it's a great way to learn.

Use a HUD, and start using Equilab or PokerStove to experiment with opponents' ranges, and you will get better still....

proximity

11-18-2016, 08:53 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ykAHWM9s8

ok poker fans we are back in grantville and with $30 of penn national chips i'm waiting in line at the casino cage. but when a process that should take only seconds drags on for what seems like eternity i have to go "nicholas cage" on an old man in a luxury scooter who is holding up the line with a series of ridiculous requests to the cashier.

"who made that smartass comment?"

"i did, you're holding up the line...."

"i'm a player here too, sir," he cries.

"oh, you're an experienced player? THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE A BETTER GRASP OF CASINO ETIQUETTE!! THERE'S NO EXCUSE!!"

sigh....

upstairs in the clubhouse (finally) there's actually a good card at penn national with several twelve horse races. unfortunately i can't pick a winner though and (pre-rebate) end up falling behind for the year on horses. :bang:

the no-limit win in at borgata brought my nl record to 61-47 -$154 over the three year history of our poker tour here and down in the poker room i looked to get back in the no-limit black with a win in pen's 1-2 game.

i grab an early win with JJ to move to a short lead but i'm ice cold the rest of the way and end up losing $100 to fall behind on no-limit for the year.

i may be a hero to the eighteen people waiting behind me in line at the penn national cage but after losses in both horses and poker it's too bad my "outburst" didn't land me in racino jail. :rolleyes:

thank you for reading! :)

game -100 (1/2 nl)
year -1083 (48-38)
kk 0-0 (39-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

Track Collector

11-18-2016, 11:16 AM

game -100 (1/2 nl)
year -1083 (48-38)
kk 0-0 (39-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

Here are the results of my journey so far this year:

year -1317 (1/2 or 1/3 NL) --> -5.23/hr
promo/comps +1000.39 (Still have a few promo chips which might turn in to a few real dollars).
Net to me --> ~ -317

Far from favorable results (if one is looking to "make" money, and consider the time spent doing so), but I am still studying and having a good time! :)

Track Collector

11-18-2016, 11:28 AM

Amazon.com offers a subscription service to their kindle users, which they call Kindle Unlimited. For $9.99 a month, the subscribers get to borrow from a list of hundreds(thousands?) of books that Amazon has pre-selected for this promotion. And...why am I telling you this here in Proximity's poker thread? Because a new poker book has surfaced which -- even though it carries a hefty price-tag -- can be borrowed and read for free as part of the Kindle Unlimited subscription program. It is, IMO, the best poker book for the non-professional player that's ever been published.

https://www.amazon.com/Grinders-Manual-Complete-Course-Online-ebook/dp/B01GBFF890/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469209032&sr=1-1&keywords=the+grinder%27s+manual

Just purchased this book a few days ago and REALLY like it!!

Of course it is going to take a great deal of time and study to master and absorb the material. One significant challenge is learning how to apply to live full-ring (like 9-10 players), and subject material relies on software tracking statistics, and strategies are based on 6-max ring.

DeltaLover

11-18-2016, 12:52 PM

ok poker fans we are back in atlantic city for our second day at the exciting borgata.

i start out with a nice breakfast in the marketplace cafeteria (casa taco?) before heading to the poker room for a long day of 10/20 limit holdem.

i get aces cracked early, but also crack aces..... and win with kings!!

as the hours pass i get three "action players" on my right and i'm generally doing well. i build up a $419 lead before moving from this must move table to the main game.

the main game starts well enough as i get another win with KK and a small rally pushes me ahead almost $600.

but the game suddenly turns.

*AA falls to K4 when a third king hits the river.

*i raise JJ and my neighbor calls with 42. flop: Q42

*after a loss with AK i flop a big draw (743ss) with A5s against 99.
blanks come on the turn and river.

*i raise AA and my neighbor calls with AT off suit. ten high flop. ten on the turn.

* i raise AK against JJ. flop: kjx.

* i raise AK and my neighbor calls with 54 and hits a four.

* i raise KK, a solid player three bets, and an action player calls $30. on the river any six will make a straight and i almost have to be good when the action player calls my bet.

i flip over the kings. he looks at my hand. he looks at the board. he looks at his hand. he looks across the room..... he flips over 76 off suit.

game +69 (10/20 lim)
year -983 (48-37)
kk 2-1 (39-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

Based on the fact that all of the hands you are describing are prime holdings, you give the impression that you are following a very tight strategy. If this is true, you need to rethink your game and understand that "reading" your opponent's hand and also making it difficult for him to “read” yours is the most important than simply trying to start with prime holdings.

Bluffing is also extremely important in your strategy and based in your postings you do not seem to bluff enough thus you need to understand better its dynamics and how it can be used to improve your approach.

You should be able to play a wide range, mixing up your starting requirements so it will not be easy for your opponents to put you in a very narrow range of hands based on your position and betting patterns.

What makes the difference in poker are close decisions when you are either a little ahead or behind rather than having the nuts or clear air. Playing poker 101 by waiting for good hands and bet with the nuts and muck when you have nothing is simply not a winning strategy; instead it is a recipe for disaster, unless you play against completely clueless opponents.

To improve your game you need to start thinking in a non “result oriented” way. What happens in a session or even a week's of play is dictated by variance and must not affect you as you must be thinking in terms of EV and become capable of ignoring the short term variance concentrating in always making the best decision and trying to think exactly one level ahead of your opponent.

ReplayRandall

11-18-2016, 01:47 PM

:D :D :D

hey, belated birthday wishes rr!! :)

Thanks Proxy for noticing....Had a good one, +2K....:ThmbUp:

thaskalos

11-18-2016, 01:55 PM

Thanks Proxy for noticing....Had a good one, +2K....:ThmbUp:

Your wife gave you MONEY this year? :p

ReplayRandall

11-18-2016, 02:04 PM

Your wife gave you MONEY this year? :p

Yessss.....Among other gifts..;)

thaskalos

11-18-2016, 03:10 PM

Just purchased this book a few days ago and REALLY like it!!

Of course it is going to take a great deal of time and study to master and absorb the material. One significant challenge is learning how to apply to live full-ring (like 9-10 players), and subject material relies on software tracking statistics, and strategies are based on 6-max ring.

The best NL book out there...IMO.

proximity

11-19-2016, 12:36 AM

Based on the fact that all of the hands you are describing are prime holdings, you give the impression that you are following a very tight strategy. If this is true, you need to rethink your game and understand that "reading" your opponent's hand and also making it difficult for him to “read” yours is the most important than simply trying to start with prime holdings.

Bluffing is also extremely important in your strategy and based in your postings you do not seem to bluff enough thus you need to understand better its dynamics and how it can be used to improve your approach.

You should be able to play a wide range, mixing up your starting requirements so it will not be easy for your opponents to put you in a very narrow range of hands based on your position and betting patterns.

What makes the difference in poker are close decisions when you are either a little ahead or behind rather than having the nuts or clear air. Playing poker 101 by waiting for good hands and bet with the nuts and muck when you have nothing is simply not a winning strategy; instead it is a recipe for disaster, unless you play against completely clueless opponents.

To improve your game you need to start thinking in a non “result oriented” way. What happens in a session or even a week's of play is dictated by variance and must not affect you as you must be thinking in terms of EV and become capable of ignoring the short term variance concentrating in always making the best decision and trying to think exactly one level ahead of your opponent.

without getting into specifics i'm looser and more aggressive than ciaffone and brier and tighter and more passive than dilane. i'm going to assume ciaffone and brier could (still) beat ten at the borgata and dilane is simply a bigger and better player than me with far more experience at the stakes.

one big area where i'm going to naturally be too tight at borgata is blind defense as there are more raised pots and steal attempts. also in my own limit statistics i have a winning record in low (relative to the big bet) blind games 3/6, 2-4-6, and 2-6 spread while i'm losing in 2/4, 4/8 and now 10/20.

this trip was a nice getaway where i left wednesday night to arrive at caesars and played thursday at bally's and basically all afternoon and evening on friday and saturday at borgata. it's a lot of poker and i try to remember key hands as well as i can. in this game though the last aa, ak, and ak were back to back to back with only another half dozen hands before the kk debacle..... so this quick downturn was pretty easy to remember. raising and losing to cold calls (some of them were three bet after my raise) with hands like k4, 42, 54, and 76 at the higher level was a theme of the report. i guess it happens but a lot of that is even folded at horseshoe, lol.

proximity

11-19-2016, 12:45 AM

Here are the results of my journey so far this year:

year -1317 (1/2 or 1/3 NL) --> -5.23/hr
promo/comps +1000.39 (Still have a few promo chips which might turn in to a few real dollars).
Net to me --> ~ -317

Far from favorable results (if one is looking to "make" money, and consider the time spent doing so), but I am still studying and having a good time! :)

it is a lot of fun and we shouldn't take that for granted. hopefully the traffic or whatever helps some games to keep going at charles town but i do worry about the room and dealers. a lot of good people there.

dilanesp

11-20-2016, 06:46 PM

Based on the fact that all of the hands you are describing are prime holdings, you give the impression that you are following a very tight strategy. If this is true, you need to rethink your game and understand that "reading" your opponent's hand and also making it difficult for him to “read” yours is the most important than simply trying to start with prime holdings.

Bluffing is also extremely important in your strategy and based in your postings you do not seem to bluff enough thus you need to understand better its dynamics and how it can be used to improve your approach.

You should be able to play a wide range, mixing up your starting requirements so it will not be easy for your opponents to put you in a very narrow range of hands based on your position and betting patterns.

What makes the difference in poker are close decisions when you are either a little ahead or behind rather than having the nuts or clear air. Playing poker 101 by waiting for good hands and bet with the nuts and muck when you have nothing is simply not a winning strategy; instead it is a recipe for disaster, unless you play against completely clueless opponents.

To improve your game you need to start thinking in a non “result oriented” way. What happens in a session or even a week's of play is dictated by variance and must not affect you as you must be thinking in terms of EV and become capable of ignoring the short term variance concentrating in always making the best decision and trying to think exactly one level ahead of your opponent.

At 10/20 limit, other than the advice of not being "results oriented", this is extremely bad advice.

In fact, in every single small and midstakes live limit game in the US that I have ever seen, other than raketraps, it is possible to profit without bluffing at all and playing an extremely tight range, and an optimal exploitative strategy will have very few bluffs other than continuation bets and semi-bluffs on big draws, and will feature an only somewhat looser range.

This is because such games are dominated by players who play way too many hands and see way too many showdowns.

proximity

11-29-2016, 05:53 AM

ok poker fans, we are back with yet another exciting game report; this time coming from horseshoe baltimore where it's shell gas card giveaway day!!

newcomer mgm national harbor promises luxury on a grand scale but they will be hard pressed to match the generous giveaways, promo chips, and flexible comps that horseshoe has consistently awarded the players over its brief history.

thank you horseshoe!!

we are in 3/6 company for today's contest although while waiting for the game to start my eyebrows were raised a couple times watching a 2/5 game. i will not give a public scouting report but i'm not surprised at all that the great cuserounder cleans up so much there.

it's a slow start over at 3/6 as i'm shut out for the game's first eighty minutes. eventually though i get on the board with our old friend KK.... our 40th win of the year with cowboys against 35 losses!!

the next two hours are a back and forth affair.

finally though i strike on back to back sets to move ahead nearly $100!!

down the stretch any hand with a king in it is pretty much good and eventually i call it a night with $130 profit and two shell gas cards in my wallet!

thank you for reading!!

game +130 (3/6 lim)
year -953 (49-38)
kk 1-0 (40-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

dilanesp

11-30-2016, 07:11 PM

it's a slow start over at 3/6 as i'm shut out for the game's first eighty minutes. eventually though i get on the board with our old friend KK.... our 40th win of the year with cowboys against 35 losses!!

Based on my online databases you are running somewhat bad with your kings. A 60 percent winrate (which would be 45 wins against 30 losses in 75 hands) is about average in a full ring game.

tucker6

12-01-2016, 09:21 AM

Based on my online databases you are running somewhat bad with your kings. A 60 percent winrate (which would be 45 wins against 30 losses in 75 hands) is about average in a full ring game.
As you'll agree, not statistically significant from his results at 75 hands.

proximity

12-01-2016, 09:26 PM

ok poker fans we are back with more mid-atlantic hold'em excitement and today's action finds us back at horseshoe baltimore.

loyal readers of this corner may recall that earlier in the year horseshoe dropped both our tier and reward credits 67% and in a fit of disgust i vowed to punish the shoe by going to maryland live! to earn my live! gold card.

well i hate to fail on a goal, but it's just not working out and i've decided to change my avatar to the borgata..... another casino that has been really generous to me, especially with the comp rooms.

hopefully in 2017 i can find a proper balance between staying diamond at horseshoe (caesar's) while continuing to get to the borgata for long sessions.

back at horseshoe i'm again in 3/6 company. last time it took me 80 minutes to get on the board but today i strike right away with ATs hitting the flop and holding off the draws.

with A5 in the big blind there are six limpers before the small blind raises. i call and eight of us see a flop of K55. :cool:

blank on the turn but i'm still against multiple opponents.

river: k. :mad:

it's amazes me how many of these horrible turn and river cards have thrown water on my fires this year. but possibly the only thing more amazing is how many times i've still been good. :faint:

A5 takes it down!! :cool:

so it's a good start today and i look to expand my lead when i look down at TT against a straddle.

i raise to $9 but of course 76 calls three cold and turns a gutshot.

"back to the vintage 'shoe i know and love :rolleyes: ," i'm thinking but two hands later i look down at QQ and raise again.

almost the whole table calls and apparently i'm losing to 65 (called two cold) when this time our dealer slams down a queen on the river!! :)

with almost the whole table behind me i look to checkraise here but incredibly no one (not even two pair 65) bets!! :bang:

still i win a nice pot, but damn it, i wanted more!

game +217 (3/6 lim)
year -736 (50-38)
kk 0-0 (40-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

LottaKash

12-01-2016, 09:42 PM

Glad to hear that you had a good nite out... :jump: Go Prox !!!...

proximity

12-05-2016, 12:00 AM

i've said it before: today's action finds us back at historic charles town for possibly the final game.

this time it seems more real.

the truth is that probably nobody knows what the future holds for charles town poker after mgm national harbor opens its doors on thursday night at 11:00 pm. maybe they'll be nothing left but cockroaches and 3/6 players after mgm drops the bomb? maybe the game will go on forever?

but with three players (myself included) on the list it's not looking like it.

my hair growing like a weed since vegas i sneak out to get it cut.

located in a nearby strip mall trackside barber & beauty doesn't sound like a place for an old fashioned gambler but it proves to be a pleasant surprise. three old school barbers staff the place. you get the feeling they were there for shenandoah downs. costy caras. jiva coolit vs cortan. four year old emd4me at the paddock with his turn times. i'm jealous.

at least i was there for the live poker boom. maybe someday some young card player will be jealous of that?

back at the racino the list has grown and eventually starts flashing. not everyone answers the call but we start five handed and before long the table starts to fill up.

the calendar has flipped to december but for some reason charles town has the ac on in the room which is freezing even by poker room standards. (they are usually pretty cold)

i start out fast with JTs flopping a four flush (876) and turning a nine to give me a winning gutshot!! KK notches its 41st win of the year and i'm up about $50 before my cards turn almost as cold as the room.

QQ is leading Q9 after a flop of 944. 9 on the turn. :bang:

AA falls to QT and i fall behind for the game.

i've lost about a hundred times with AQ on the afternoon but finally it hits a flop (AQ7) and wins a nice pot against A7 and A3 to put me back ahead to stay!!

the game breaks shortly after six o'clock and i go to the food court to thaw out with some hot chicken noodle soup.

over at live racing i need one good winner to move back ahead for the year.

i decide to focus on a mare named red spring in the 4th and she does not disappoint, paying $10.40 to win!!

it's been a nice day at charles town.

hopefully not my last.

game +81 (3/6)
year -655 (51-38)
kk 1-0 (41-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

Track Collector

12-06-2016, 03:11 PM

Saturday (or was it Friday?) I saw an "Interest" list 2-deep at CT for 10/20 Limit! :eek:

proximity

12-07-2016, 12:54 AM

Saturday (or was it Friday?) I saw an "Interest" list 2-deep at CT for 10/20 Limit! :eek:

u going to mgm?? :)

Track Collector

12-07-2016, 08:55 PM

u going to mgm?? :)

No. It is going to be crazy for a number of months.

Don't know about Limit, but the low level max buy-ins are 500, which is 200 higher than the other local venues.

proximity

12-10-2016, 01:40 PM

No. It is going to be crazy for a number of months.

Don't know about Limit, but the low level max buy-ins are 500, which is 200 higher than the other local venues.

no list but 3/6 still breathing....

Description # of Tables
2-5 NL HOLDEM 1
3-6 Limit Hold-em 1
1-2 NL HOLDEM 5
Game # Players Waiting
1-2 NL HOLDEM 4
2-5 POT LIMIT OMAHA 1
2-5 NL HOLDEM 4
10-20 Limit Hold-em 1 :D :D :D

ronsmac

12-10-2016, 08:51 PM

u going to mgm?? :)A nice fight broke out on opening night. It was better than some of the recent boxing matches on HBO.

proximity

12-11-2016, 12:14 AM

A nice fight broke out on opening night. It was better than some of the recent boxing matches on HBO.

probably paid cordish "thugs" like some of those anti-'shoe posters on that other site. ;)

charm city whizz

12-11-2016, 12:28 AM

No. It is going to be crazy for a number of months.

Don't know about Limit, but the low level max buy-ins are 500, which is 200 higher than the other local venues.

What up guys!!!! Just for the record it's not hard to get on a game at MGM the lists move pretty fast, most people sign up then don't come back, you guys will love it there and now borgata and MGM national harbor are paired up!!!!

the players who that have played there love it, can't wait for you guys to come and check it out........$2 a hour comps too👍👍

proximity

12-11-2016, 09:00 PM

What up guys!!!! Just for the record it's not hard to get on a game at MGM the lists move pretty fast, most people sign up then don't come back, you guys will love it there and now borgata and MGM national harbor are paired up!!!!

the players who that have played there love it, can't wait for you guys to come and check it out........$2 a hour comps too👍👍

u jumped ship?? :confused:

proximity

12-12-2016, 11:38 PM

ok poker fans we are back with another trip to exciting atlantic city.

for this trip we have a two night stay at bally's. i arrive late wednesday night (technically thursday morning) and get a clean room in bally's tower. in the morning i take a long and frosty walk down to ventnor city and back up to resorts where i hit the dunkin' donuts for some breakfast.

after some shopping at the puma outlet, we're back at bally's for some 2/4/6 limit action in their wsop poker room in the wild west section of the casino.

this turns out to be a really passive game. i'm relatively card dead but fortunately steal enough to grind out a $10 win. i note that bally's is starting to remind me of a less extreme flamingo where it was mostly tight players in the morning and "action" players at night.

some players in the game were talking about the bally's diamond lounge and i decide to try this out after the game.

i wasn't expecting much but ended up being pleasantly surprised as this lounge proved to be MUCH better than horseshoe's.

i stuffed myself with chicken and vegetables and then rammed a cupcake down my throat for good measure. word is i got in for free because i had 27,000+ tier credits in 2015? if i had less than 25,000 i'd apparently be charged 1000 reward credits??

of course this year i'm (only) approaching 24,000 and with the calendar rapidly approaching january my days of free atlantic city diamond lounge gluttony are likely numbered. but they were fun while they lasted!

thank you for reading. :)

game +10 (246 lim)
year -645 (52-38)
kk 0-0 (41-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

12-13-2016, 09:51 PM

the big excitement this week at bally's is the construction of the soon to be opened dunkin' donuts in the hotel lobby!!

hopefully this branch will be "one-to-one" comps (not everything in ac is) but it should at least provide a needed late night snack option at bally's.

indeed 2017 could be a banner year for bally's gluttony if only i could reach 25,000 caesar's tier credits and continue to get free admission to the diamond lounge!! of course with all this eating i'll probably have to extend my ac walks to margate city if i want to stay in any kind of shape for the vegas bally's blu pool. :cool:

back in 2016 i'm behind by $645 for the year but look to cut into that in 2/4/6 limit company at bally's.

i start off fast in this passive contest and look expand on my lead when JTs turns a flush. however the board pairs on the river and gives another player known as "the professor" the winning boat. i'm still ahead $15 though and a few hours later i turn a boat of my own with 33 and expand my lead to $66.

with ATs i flop an ace and dodge a bullet when AA is all-in. i comeback with a brief rally but a quick series of losses with 88 and AK followed by an open ended straight flush draw that sees complete blanks come on the turn and river puts me back to +44. i stay even the rest of the way before retiring to the diamond lounge for another free meal.

thank you for reading. :)

game +44 (246 lim)
year -601 (53-38)
kk 0-0 (41-35)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

12-17-2016, 12:28 AM

ok poker fans we are back at exciting bally's atlantic city where my fat butt is parked in a 26 limit company after another excessive feeding at my trough in the diamond lounge.

a quick win with AK gets us off to a fast start and i look to extend this lead with Q3 in the big blind.

flop: 633. :cool:

but when the board runs out kd td my neighbor, who has limped utg with 7d5d misses his gutshot but backs into a diamond flush. at least he doesn't raise my river bet. :rolleyes:

i fold a lot of small blinds in these low limit games but when the whole table's in a hand i complete with 54.

flop: 543 :cool:

turn: 4 and i get to check raise!! :jump:

this win puts me back ahead but losses with AT (flops an ace) and our old friend KK (also flops an ace :mad: ) put the issue in doubt once again.

A9s though also flops an ace in a six way straddled pot and this time i'm good and back ahead to stay.

88 flops a set and i look to move ahead three digits with AK when i flop a king. but 86 off ends up turning a gutshot. usually they don't have the odds to go for these hands in my reports but unfortunately this time my pre flop raise ended up bloating the pot enough that the villain was legitimately priced in. win some, lose some.

thank you for reading.

game +71 (246 lim)
year -530 (54-38)
kk 0-1 (41-36)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

12-18-2016, 11:15 PM

ok poker fans we are back with another exciting trip to atlantic city!!

we again arrive in town late wednesday night and get a room at caesar's.

this is only my second ever stay at caesar's, where i'm again in the centurion tower. some of the halls seem a little worn but overall the rooms seem fresher than at neighboring bally's. the casino's pretty dead and i win a little at blackjack before heading up to bed for the night.

in the morning i join just a handful of other gamblers at the palace court buffet (cafe roma is closed for minor renovations) where i load up on a plate of cold scrambled eggs. there's a brief moment of excitement when a girl catches the toaster on fire, but overall it's a quiet morning at caesar's ac.

after checking out of the hotel i take a long (and extremely cold) walk up to resorts and then down to ventnor city and finally back to bally's where it's time to play some hold 'em in their wsop poker room in the wild west section of the casino.

there's a list for 26 limit so i decide to dive into their 1-2 "super" no limit game while i'm thawing out from that frigid boardwalk stroll.

i've been thinking a lot about no limit lately; specifically about pot control and maybe raising more hands but less money?

with TT i raise to $8 and get a call from late position, the big blind, and a limper. the two early players check to me following a flop of AXX rainbow and i throw out a small c-bet of like $12. when both the button and one of the early players call i know i'm toast. fortunately a dime doesn't come on the turn because the late player had AA and just called my pre flop and flop bets.

with AJ i raise to $7 and six of us see a ragged jack high flop. i throw out a bet of $20 here and fold everyone out.

with QQ though i raise and get heads up but lose to (i think?) A4?

after a loss with AK i do comeback and four bet KK all in (the villain folded) but in the end i can never get ahead and leave for a new limit game with a $9 loss.

game -9 (1/2 nl)
year -539 (54-39)
kk 1-0 (42-36)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

12-22-2016, 03:06 PM

ok poker fans we are back at exciting bally's atlantic city where we've just started a brand new game of 2/6 limit hold 'em!!

a win with AK starts us off well enough but losses with 99, QQ, TT, and TT (again) put us behind almost $30.

a rivered straight with j9 from the big blind gets us right back in it though and when the blinds come around again 87 sees a miracle flop of 965 rainbow!!

(too) many of our flopped straights have been overtaken on this tour but this one holds and eventually we exit the session with a $15 win!!

after the game i head straight to the diamond lounge where i enjoy some hot noodle soup. i appear to be relaxing with my soup by a nice fireplace but inside my mind i'm plotting my strategy for another big game.

next: return to borgata...

game +15 (2/6 lim)
year -524 (55-39)
kk 0-0 (42-36)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (90)

proximity

12-22-2016, 03:20 PM

dlivery

12-22-2016, 06:33 PM

I'm currently in Toronto Ontario
But have you ever wonders what we have here!
A nightmare if your above ground. Robots
Just to add to coversation :lol:
Thank You

Track Collector

12-22-2016, 10:25 PM

ATTENTION MID-ATLANTIC PACE HANDICAPPERS!!

i've received an email from caesar's total rewards that i have another diamond dinner to use by january 31st and i would like to extend an invitation to ALL pace advantage members to attend.

it'll probably be on a friday or saturday at the beautiful HORSESHOE BALTIMORE casino.

in the past we've been joined by great members like charm city whiz, ronsmac, ronsmac's girlfriend patty, track collector, and wiffleball whiz.

it is always a good time with good conversation about poker, horses, and especially rebates!!!

please keep this event in mind and i'll try and come up with a date where we can get the most people!!

merry x-mas!

--proximity

Rebates? We don't need no stinkin rebates! :liar:

A great time it was last year. Fridays are out for me, unless one wants to eat an early breakfast at 11:00 P.M. Saturdays in January currently work for me, and hopefully work for you and a majority of others as well.

In the meantime, I hope to be felting at the Tampa Bay Downs card room with some success on Wednesday. Although he has no interest in poker, I'll be meeting up with the Track Collecting King SCANMAN for the live race card. :jump:

proximity

12-23-2016, 02:18 AM

I'm currently in Toronto Ontario
But have you ever wonders what we have here!
A nightmare if your above ground. Robots
Just to add to coversation :lol:
Thank You

toronto's a long way to come, even for the delectable crab at horseshoe.

but if you've gotten rebates for over ten years..... and especially if you played through TONKOWA..... we'd love to see you there!!

:D

proximity

12-23-2016, 02:21 AM

Rebates? We don't need no stinkin rebates! :liar:

thought for a second emd hijacked your account.... then i saw the :liar: symbol. :D

proximity

12-23-2016, 02:43 AM

ok poker fans we are back in frigid atlantic city where we've made our way over to the amazing borgata for another big game of 10/20 limit hold 'em!!

early wins with AK and KQ get me out to a $125 lead but TT falls to JJ and when AK comes again i lose and my lead is reduced to $20.

with A2s from the big blind though i see an amazing flop of 222. i win this hand to extend my lead to $159 and take the lead in the high hand with nine minutes to go. this time my high hand holds and i collect a $250 bonus (net $225 after tip)!!

this is the start we need... but it's the last hand i win.

77 falls to AA, 66 loses, AJ loses.... everything loses until we come to AA in the big blind.

an early player raises, gets three bet, another player calls three cold and i cap it with the rockets.

on a flop of KT5 i'm up against 55 and KT. :bang:

thank you for reading.

game -205 (10/20 lim)
year -729 (55-40)
kk 0-0 (42-36)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 225 (315)

RunForTheRoses

12-23-2016, 03:12 PM

ATTENTION MID-ATLANTIC PACE HANDICAPPERS!!

i've received an email from caesar's total rewards that i have another diamond dinner to use by january 31st and i would like to extend an invitation to ALL pace advantage members to attend.

it'll probably be on a friday or saturday at the beautiful HORSESHOE BALTIMORE casino.

in the past we've been joined by great members like charm city whiz, ronsmac, ronsmac's girlfriend patty, track collector, and wiffleball whiz.

it is always a good time with good conversation about poker, horses, and especially rebates!!!

please keep this event in mind and i'll try and come up with a date where we can get the most people!!

merry x-mas!

--proximity

Whiffleball Whiz and Charm City Whiz in the same room? I thought those two fellas hated each other.

Very nice offer, I hope y'all have a good time.

proximity

12-23-2016, 03:46 PM

Whiffleball Whiz and Charm City Whiz in the same room? I thought those two fellas hated each other.

Very nice offer, I hope y'all have a good time.

they were once inseparable, but mgm has done damage irreparable.... :D

proximity

12-23-2016, 06:26 PM

caesar's has started a new QUEST FOR REWARDS program:

QUEST FOR REWARDS
Congratulations! You’ve started your Quest for Rewards. Bookmark this page and check back often. As you visit Total Rewards destinations and earn 25 Tier Credits at each, you’ll see your badges appear here.

If you earn all 36 badges, you’ll receive the maximum rewards of a 13,500 Tier Credit Bonus and 54 entries in a drawing for over 60 great prizes, including a Tier Status upgrade to Seven Stars (our highest and most elite level) or up to 1 million Reward Credits!

Simply visit at least two properties and earn 25 Tier Credits at each to qualify for the Quest for Rewards and begin tracking your progress.*

Learn More 2 Badges needed to begin earning Quest rewards. 0 out of 36 Total Entries earned for drawing: 0 Total Tier Credit Bonus earned: 0
LAS VEGAS (0/9)Up Arrow
Caesars Palace Badge
Caesars Palace
Planet Hollywood Badge
Planet Hollywood
Rio All-Suite Hotel & Casino Badge
Rio All-Suite Hotel & Casino
Harrah's Las Vegas Badge
Harrah's Las Vegas
Paris Las Vegas Badge
Paris Las Vegas
Flamingo Las Vegas Badge
Flamingo Las Vegas
Bally's Las Vegas Badge
Bally's Las Vegas
The LINQ Hotel & Casino Badge
The LINQ Hotel & Casino
The Cromwell Badge
The Cromwell
ATLANTIC CITY (0/3)Down Arrow
RENO/TAHOE (0/3)Down Arrow
TUNICA (0/2)Down Arrow
NEW ORLEANS/BILOXI (0/2)Down Arrow
COUNCIL BLUFFS (0/2)Down Arrow
BOSSIER (0/2)Down Arrow
OTHER (0/12)Down Arrow
BALTIMORE (0/1)Down Arrow
NO PURCHASE OR PLAY NECESSARY TO WIN. Must be Total Rewards® member who is US or Canadian resident (excl. Quebec and all US territories) and 21+. Ends 3/31/17. For Official Rules, including odds, entry periods, prize descriptions and free mail-in entry instructions, visit Total Rewards.com/Quest. Mathematical skill-testing question required for residents of Canada. Sponsor: Caesars Enterprise Services, LLC.
*It can take up to 10 days for badges to appear.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

proximity

12-24-2016, 01:42 AM

ok poker fans we are back at the beautiful borgata for one final 2016 shot at 10/20 limit hold 'em.

after an early win with JJ the rout is on.

KK gets heads up twice. first against Q7 and then against A4.

i lose both times.

TT gets heads up against KJ but i can't fold out the villain. four low cards come followed by a jack on the river.

99 is rivered by A7.

two pair falls to a straight.

everything is going wrong.... AGAIN.... and i'm down $300 just eighty minutes into the action.

finally i grab a couple wins with TT and KK but then it's right back to the losing. 87s flops top pair from the small blind and loses and 88 follows with a loss in the big blind.

AK loses to AQ but there's hope when K9s flops a four flush and an open ended straight draw with the nine. a red seven on the turn gives me a straight but then of course a red nine comes on the river to force a three way chop. at least no one had a queen. :rolleyes:

with AQ i three bet and get heads up with AJ. naturally a jack comes.

despite all the bad beats though i get back in it quickly when KQ rivers a straight and KK evens its record at 2-2 on the day.

i'm back within $70 of even but then i go totally card dead for the next hour.

meanwhile there's big 400-800 mix action going just a few tables away. the table features philly pro john hennigan who played the evil poker villain ralph kaczynski in cringeworthy movie lucky you.

back at 10/20 i eventually get some hands.

i lose with both 99 and JTs but raise JJ and get heads up with ATo who called two cold before the flop which comes out TT9.

finally with 33 a couple early limpers are raised by a very solid player who i believe used to be one of whiz's bosses over at revel? usually i just fold this hand but if i call i can see almost the whole table getting involved. i do call and almost the whole table does come along.... so i was right about that but at the same time i'm wondering if i'm starting to crack?

flop: Q83.

turn: 9. i raise here and get heads up against the pfr.

river: Q.

he bets. i raise. he three bets. it's gotta be 99. i should take my $14 and RUN out of the borgata. never to return.

i call.

it's 99.

it's over.

thank you for reading.

game -500 (10/20 lim)
year -1229 (55-41)
kk 2-2 (44-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

tucker6

12-24-2016, 06:34 AM

you were damned if you do, damned if you don't in that last hand. Hard to fold a full house with only two hands that can beat you, 88 and 99.

proximity

12-27-2016, 06:16 AM

ok poker fans we're back at borgata where i just lost in my biggest game of the year. :bang:

after taking a dinner break i throw $40 down on a 2/4 table.

i quickly lose twice with AK and half my stack is gone.

a couple hours later AA is rivered by a gutshot.

and that's it.

my tail between my legs, i head for the exit.

back in grantville i'll play out the string and look forward to a fresh start in 2017.

thank you for reading.

game -40 (2/4 lim)
year -1269 (55-42)
kk 0-0 (44-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

garyscpa

12-27-2016, 03:52 PM

So are you going to try more no limit this year?

proximity

12-27-2016, 08:44 PM

So are you going to try more no limit this year?

yes, in fact that last report will probably be my final limit game of 2016.

next year i'll probably go back to horseshoe and try to grind my way back to diamond again. it'll be a lot of 3/6 but i'll probably mix in some 1/3 too.

overall i thought i played well down at borgata but after the first couple games it seemed that everything bad that could happen..... happened. losing repeatedly with AA and other big pairs. three betting dominated hands..... they hit their card. improbable chops.... some three way. in the end though the bottom line is the bottom line and thaskalos was right....10/20 made me a poker loser.

proximity

12-28-2016, 02:51 AM

ok poker fans.

our flashy borgata avatar is gone.

head down, tail between legs, not even stopping for a final free meal at the bally's diamond lounge..... we depart atlantic city and when we finally get up the nerve to sit down at a card table again it's back at humble penn national.

we are playing out the string in "america's game" 1-2 no limit.

from the button i try to raise 77.

every cruddy limper at the table calls and every high card in the deck falls.

i don't pay off a single chip but when i raise KQs every limper at the table calls again.

flop: Q4X. a $25 bet folds out half the field.

turn: another 4. $50 narrows it down to one player behind me.

river: A. and i chop with QJ off suit. :bang: :bang:

after this though i score a win with KK and with AT of hearts i see a beautiful ten high flop with two hearts!!

i just checked and called here which almost had to be some kind of mistake but when the action got back to me it was just too tempting to take the free card.

turn: x

i do decide to lead out here but can't fold out my neighbor who misreads reads the board and goes on to river a (non-heart) gutshot. :bang: so maybe i saved money on the flop? :confused:

with TT a loose, wild, and not very good player leads for his standard $25.

i raise to $50 to isolate.

flop: T x x!!!

with AT off suit he does all the work for me and i catch my first break in what seems like five years. :rolleyes:

it's good to win a pot but we're playing no limit and this is a situation where i could have gotten more had i won the KQs and ATs pots and had a larger stack. i'll probably start buying for more too as i begin to get my sea legs under me again here.

i grab a win with JJ on my way out the door and end up with a $166 win but it could have been so much more if it wasn't for the two bad river cards.

thank you for reading.

game +166 (1/2 nl)
year -1103 (56-42)
kk 1-0 (45-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

proximity

12-29-2016, 12:51 AM

ok poker fans we are back at penn national for more 1-2 no limit excitement.

after early losses with 99 and AK i finally grab a win with AK to get almost back to even. eventually i move ahead with QQ but when AA comes i bet fold the turn (villain had a set of tens) and the issue's in doubt once again.

with one foot out the door it's gonna be another of our famous mini wins when i look down at JJ from early position and raise to $10.

a player two seats to my left calls and i bet out on a flop of J87.

he raises.

i shove.

he calls.

with $106 effective stacks and several players behind him he called a $10 raise with T9 off suit. :bang:

no help on the turn or river.

thank you for reading.

game -100 (1/2 nl)
year -1203 (56-43)
kk 0-0 (45-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

proximity

12-29-2016, 04:55 PM

ok poker fans today's action finds us back at hollywood casino at penn national races where we're playing out the string.

i arrive around post time only to find that pen is out of daily racing programs (currently $4, but going up to $5 january 1st). no one in their right mind is going to spend $10 for a daily racing form :faint: but they're giving out free pps for turfway and charles town and selling $2 pen programs for the live card.

the free programs turn out to be a joke with many of the races only including one to three pacelines per horse and the live book isn't much better with one race only including four lines per horse. then upstairs in the freezing clubhouse (uhh? it's december guys???) the snack bar is shuttered and i have to walk all the way down to "celebrity grill" in the casino to get a $4.23 bowl of soup. :bang:

what a total disgrace to gambling this operation is!!

back in the freezing clubhouse i have a good discussion with high school harness guru ray cotolo about the demise of everyone's favorite tv show pa harness week and also mourn pompano's loss of that curvy cuban cutie gigi diaz and her little pick 4 party patrol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbDNxWFe_w

always up on everything to do with harness, young ray informs me that gigi has moved on to radio. pompano and pick 4s will never be the same. :(

down in the card room losses with T9s and AJ take half my stack and facing a raise and call with TT i shove in my final $49.

the original raiser calls and as does the cold caller and we see a flop of k x x.

the original raiser shoves, folds out the caller, and flips over (it's all the way at the other end of the table) i believe QQ but it could've been KQ.

blank on the turn but a glorious dime on the river saves the day!! :jump:

the rest of the game finds us trading money with AK before we finally retire with a $42 win.

thank you for reading.

game +42 (1/2 nl)
year -1161 (57-43)
kk 0-0 (45-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

proximity

12-30-2016, 04:54 PM

ok poker fans we're back with more exciting 1-2 action from hollywood penn national!!

while i end up rallying for a $28 win in this game i played one hand so poorly that i really didn't even deserve to walk out of the racino a "winner."

on the button with 88 i raised a couple limpers to $10. four of us end up seeing a flop of 654 with two diamonds. (approximately $40 in the pot)

the flop is checked to me and i fire out $20, narrowing the field down to me and a player who limp/ called pre with A7 off suit (no diamonds) and called the flop with eleven (shaky) outs.

he's played bad so far but on the turn my own ineptitude will overshadow all of his early street sins.

turn:8

this card gives him a straight with any seven and he checkraises a pathetic blocker bet by me that's not even large enough to price out a diamond draw. with the set i've picked up ten outs that were certainly stronger than his outs on the flop but he's bet enough that i should fold.... but instead i don't even shove, but call and then pay off the remainder of my small stack when i miss the river.

it is embarrassing to type such a lousy hand but that's how i played it and thus it has to go in the thread here at paceadvantage.

to my credit i gather myself and grind my way back to a profitable night but it was still a frustrating drive home. at least from penn national though i didn't have too far to go. :)

thank you for reading!

game +28 (1/2 nl)
year -1133 (58-43)
kk 1-0 (46-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

proximity

12-31-2016, 07:31 PM

ok poker fans we are back at exciting hollywood casino at penn national for one final game on our poker tour.

we're playing "america's game" 1-2 no limit hold 'em and i buy a little deeper for this 2016 finale.

i strike quickly in this one with our old pal KK on the very first hand of the game. wins with 55 and AA follow and i've sprinted out to a $178 lead.

but 99 falls to AA and A5s misses both flush and straight draws.

75s flops both flush and straight draws (4s3s 2) and rivers a flush.... but loses to a higher flush and our lead is reduced to just $25.

i stay for another five and a half hours but only win a couple small pots before quitting with a $124 loss.

i'd like to thank everyone here who read the reports and offered advice and encouragement over the last three years. happy new year and best of luck to you all. :)

---proximity

game -124 (1/2 nl)
year -1257 (58-44)
kk 1-0 (47-38)
promo 0 (1092)
bonus 0 (315)

proximity

01-06-2017, 08:48 PM

well, three years of game reports here on paceadvantage really flew by. it was A LOT of fun!! :)

here are some stats from the 2014, 2015, and 2016 poker tours...

rank.....casino.....$$....w-l
(1)horseshoe balt.......+1528 (56-35)
(2)showboat (ac)........ +311 (5-0)
(3)penn national.........+284 (51-35)
(4)excalibur (lv)..........+241 (3-0)
(5)rocky gap (md).......+206 (1-0)
(6)parx.......................+125 (2-0)
(7)bally's (ac)................+91 (17-12)
(8)harrah's (ac)..............+31 (2-5)
(9)bellagio (lv)................+28 (1-0)
(10) golden nugget (ac)....+21 (1-0)
(11)the mirage (lv)...........+11 (1-0)
(12)silver sevens (lv).........+10 (1-0)
(13)taj mahal (ac)..............-30 (2-1)
(14)flamingo (lv)................-171 (1-2)
(15)tropicana (ac)..............-373 (3-5)
(16)charles town................-508 (12-15)
(17)sands.........................-725 (3-5)
(18)maryland live!.............-737 (7-9)
(19)borgata......................-899 (14-9)

proximity

01-06-2017, 08:53 PM

here are the three year stats by game:

(1) 3-6 limit........... +1252 (74-47)
(2) 2-6 spread limit... +241 (3-0)
(3) 1-3 no limit...........+208 (2-0)
(4) 2-4-6 limit..............+204 (16-10)
(5) 1-2 no limit...............-7 (59-47)
(6) 2-4 limit...................-173 (14-11)
(7) 1-1 no limit...............-452 (3-4)
(8) 4-8 limit...................-727 (8-10)
(9) 10-20 limit...............-1102 (4-4)

dilanesp

01-13-2017, 03:15 PM

proximity

01-14-2017, 03:07 AM

Prox, what's the average length of one of your sessions, in hours?

i don't keep track of that but probably about 7 or 8 hours.

dilanesp

01-15-2017, 09:30 PM

proximity

01-16-2017, 11:17 PM

4.9BB/100 at the 3-6, over about 4,200 hands. That's very good, though not a statistically significant sample.

If we combine all your limit results, you are 0.29BB/100, over about 6,000 hands. That's basically breaking even; still not a statistically significant sample.

-13.3bb/100 in no limit, over 4,025 hands. Obviously you had a bad year, and this also demonstrates how these hand samples aren't statistically significant.

I really don't know how to deal with spread limit or 2-4-6, though you clearly made small amounts of money at those limits.

in no limit i lose about one big blind a game. the mid limit shot is where i got killed.

for this year i'm trying to go to horseshoe as much as possible and i'm throwing in some no limit where i'm trying to buy deeper like thaskalos said.

my humble goals are to grind 15,000 tier credits to become caesars diamond again while moving ahead in no limit and continuing to win at 3/6, ultimately getting up over $2000 lifetime at 'shoe.

i'm also trying to get there as much as possible for promo vouchers and gifts.

how did your year end up going??