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12-16-2012, 12:46 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Low Rollers, Rollers, and High Rollers
With my wager size about to increase, the question comes up -- what a roller grouping is? It was said, somewhere in the eighties or nineties, that the average gambler put somewhere around a $150 (if memory serves) through the window at the track. Based on that would it be about $200 today. If so, taking +/- 20%, would a roller be between $160 to $240 today for a race card or 10 races anywhere? At $200 for 10 races, we talking about $20 a race. But then it gets more complicated, like anything else to do with horse racing, is a capper that puts down only one $200 bet in 10 races a high roller or just a regular roller? I'd have to favor what goes through the window at the end of the day and, therefore, call the one $200 bet a day guy just a roller with balls. How do you rate them?
Here are my categories for a typical card or 10 races:
- under $160 low roller
- $160 to $240 a roller
- over $240 a high roller
Or should we be talking whales for high rollers?
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
Last edited by Capper Al; 12-16-2012 at 12:47 PM.
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12-16-2012, 01:08 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Just found this on the DRF website:
TRACK ATTENDANCE IN PAST 12 MONTHS
Twice a week or more .....60.8%
Once a week ....................13.6
Twice a month .................7.5
Once a month ...................6.6
WHEN YOU GO TO THE TRACK,
HOW MUCH DO YOU BRING TO BET OR WAGER?
Up to $49 ...................................7.5%
$50-$99 .......................................11.7
$100-$249 ...................................37.2
$250-$499 ...................................19.0
$500-$999 ...................................10.3
$1,000-$2,499 ..............................7.1
$2,500 or more ...........................2.4
Average .....................................$441.00
That changes everything. Using the +/- 20% we now have the following:- Low roller under $352.80 -- let's say $350
- Roller (average) -- between $350 and $530
- High roller -- over $529.20 -- Let's say $530
- Whales over $2,500 -- our top two percent
How's that?
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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12-16-2012, 02:57 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 7,706
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If the term "high roller" is meant to measure or indicate one's tolerance for risk, I agree that it can be discussed in terms of absolute bet size (as you have suggested). But I think that it can be even more validly considered as a percentage or proportion of one's own total available capital (either discretionary or aggregate), regardless of what specific bet amount that might involve. A person with limited capital who is willing to risk a higher percentage of it per bet may well be (by propensity) a higher roller than someone with greater resources who might wager more dollars, but bet a much smaller share of bankroll.
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12-16-2012, 03:44 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,915
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I believe there are THOUSANDS of players that bet $50 per race or more.
I would guess that there are a couple hundred players who bet $10m per year or more.
I think you need to scale your estimates up sharply.
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12-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,069
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I would say a whale is at least a 10 million dollar a year player.
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12-16-2012, 05:37 PM
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#6
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 515
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You could probably add those betting much less per year but selectively making large wagers when the opportunity strikes. Same effect on the pools.
I'd say you'd have to be betting 1000's a race to be considered a high roller at a major track. Doesn't mean its all on one horse either.
This was the bet level 20 years ago in NY among the big players.
Think of it this way, if you made 1000 $200 bets and got creamed , losing 10% of your handle, you'd only be losing 20k.
Would take you quite a while and 20k is not exactly big money.
Last edited by MightBeSosa; 12-16-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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My assertions are now based on what DRF posted on their website. So I stand with the average roller being between 350 and 530 and a whale being over 2500. The ldea of whales putting over a 100,000 on a race on a regular basis is just BS.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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12-17-2012, 02:01 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Capper Al
My assertions are now based on what DRF posted on their website. So I stand with the average roller being between 350 and 530 and a whale being over 2500. The ldea of whales putting over a 100,000 on a race on a regular basis is just BS.
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Al, with all due respect...the thought that the high-roller brings $350 to $530 with them to the track for a day of betting is LAUGHABLE...regardless of what the DRF has posted. The high-roller bets that on one race.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
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#9
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Remember this guy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/03/ma...ted=all&src=pm
He
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bets somewhere between $10 million and $18 million a year.
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__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-17-2012, 02:31 PM
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#10
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Vancouver Island
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,747
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How can he be good when he was no use at arithmatic 
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12-17-2012, 03:09 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Sorry, Al...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Al, with all due respect...the thought that the high-roller brings $350 to $530 with them to the track for a day of betting is LAUGHABLE...regardless of what the DRF has posted. The high-roller bets that on one race.
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I apologize for misreading your post, Al.
IMO...there is no way the average player has $500 in his pocket when he goes to the track. I think he has more like $250.
Here is my own estimate for what each group of bettors typically bring to the track (I am talking BETTING money. Not any other money he might happen to be carrying...which he doesn't intend to bet with):
Low Roller.............$100-$125 in his pocket.
Average Roller.......$250-$300 in his pocket.
Serious Roller.........$500-$1000 in his pocket.
High Roller.............$2,000+ in his pocket.
Whale....................Carries his money in a bag.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 12-17-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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12-17-2012, 03:44 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Al, with all due respect...the thought that the high-roller brings $350 to $530 with them to the track for a day of betting is LAUGHABLE...regardless of what the DRF has posted. The high-roller bets that on one race.
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Sorry you read it that way. I had 4 groupings: - low roller under $350.
- roller between $350 and $530
- high roller over $530 but under $2500
- whale $2500 and over.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Capper Al
Sorry you read it that way. I had 4 groupings: - low roller under $350.
- roller between $350 and $530
- high roller over $530 but under $2500
- whale $2500 and over.
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Yeah...I made a mistake reading it, but could not change my reply.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-17-2012, 03:50 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
I apologize for misreading your post, Al.
IMO...there is no way the average player has $500 in his pocket when he goes to the track. I think he has more like $250.
Here is my own estimate for what each group of bettors typically bring to the track (I am talking BETTING money. Not any other money he might happen to be carrying...which he doesn't intend to bet with):
Low Roller.............$100-$125 in his pocket.
Average Roller.......$250-$300 in his pocket.
Serious Roller.........$500-$1000 in his pocket.
High Roller.............$2,000+ in his pocket.
Whale....................Carries his money in a bag.
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That's the way I would have it seen had I not found the DRF data.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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12-17-2012, 03:52 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 6,330
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This could be true, if so there isn't many like him.
__________________
"The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Anatole France
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