No trip? No whip!

[mountainman]

My new outcry against jockeys who botch the ride and then make the horse pay for their transgressions. Don't punish the animal after YOU break on its mouth, check repeatedly, swing wide when the rail is open, misjudge the pace..etc..etc. Just keep the stick uncocked, dismount and slink back to the jocks room. And hope the horse doesn't hit YOU for your incompetence.

Not a fan of heavy whipping to begin with-have seen too many bad riders literally BEAT the momentum right out of a horse. And when they butcher the trip and still batter the poor animal, my blood boils.

Yes, I realize this isn't practical or enforceable, but riders, don't demand that a horse give ITS best unless you've given YOUR best.

[BMustang]

I have always felt that the use of the whip is overrated
I get a kick out of horseplayers who stand in front of a TV screaming "Hit him, hit him" when the jock may be giving the horse a masterful hand ride. Too often bad riders will resort to repeated whipping through the stretch in lieu of getting up on the horses head and "helping" him to the wire, only to have a jock pumping and driving a horse past him at the wire.

While this will not be a popular statement, I think Channing Hill is one of the strongest hand riders in the country. There are times when I will lose a race to someone doing the same thing, over and over again (whipping him) and expecting different results - the definition of insanity - and know that Hill could have gotten the same horse home with a strong hand ride.

I'm sure there are many good hand riders out there, who use the whip as a tool to their advantage, but depend on a strong hand ride to win races. Unfortunately, the many jocks that I talk to here in Ohio/Kentucky say that if they don't use the whip with regularity, they don't get mounts. Bad mentality.

[Some_One]

Didn't an Aussie study recently find the whip to have little to no effect, if the horse is out of gas, whipping it won't matter. I can maybe see if you need to it to regain the attention of the horse, try to get it to switch leads, but that's it IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by mountainman

have seen too many bad riders literally BEAT the momentum right out of a horse.

This is one of my pet peeves as a player who occasionally bets across the board.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by mountainman

My new outcry against jockeys who botch the ride and then make the horse pay for their transgressions. Don't punish the animal after YOU break on its mouth, check repeatedly, swing wide when the rail is open, misjudge the pace..etc..etc. Just keep the stick uncocked, dismount and slink back to the jocks room. And hope the horse doesn't hit YOU for your incompetence.

Not a fan of heavy whipping to begin with-have seen too many bad riders literally BEAT the momentum right out of a horse. And when they butcher the trip and still batter the poor animal, my blood boils.

Yes, I realize this isn't practical or enforceable, but riders, don't demand that a horse give ITS best unless you've given YOUR best.

I have always thought that these regrettable incidents are a part of the "maneuvering" that certain trainers like to do...especially at the minor tracks.

I sometimes see horses, who are fully capable of running within 5 lengths of the pace of the race, taken waaaaay back...to a point where the horse has almost lost contact with the field.

The jockey then proceeds to make a 12-wide move turning for home, while furiously whipping the helpless horse...as he puts on a show for the bewildered fans, trying to convince them that he is doing his "best" to win the race.

Shameless...

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I have always thought that these regrettable incidents are a part of the "maneuvering" that certain trainers like to do...especially at the minor tracks.

I sometimes see horses, who are fully capable of running within 5 lengths of the pace of the race, taken waaaaay back...to a point where the horse has almost lost contact with the field.

The jockey then proceeds to make a 12-wide move turning for home, while furiously whipping the helpless horse...as he puts on a show for the bewildered fans, trying to convince them that he is doing his "best" to win the race.

Shameless...

True dat. I am sooooooooo tempted to start a thread about subtle tipoffs that a jock isn't trying. I have on- air euphemisms for such incidents, but it's dangerous territory for an in-house handicapper. It's a tad easier (and far less risky) to imply that a trainer has "set one up," or likes to "cash a ticket."

Either way, i can rarely resist going there on the show, and that may someday end me as an analyst. Oh well.

[Itamaraca]

yeah. this definitely needs to be a topic over at the Capper's Corner. I'd love to see what Thaskalos, Traynor, DaveSchwartz, Capper Al, TrifectaMike, Raybo, etc. have to say on the topic. This game is so multi-faceted.

[bob60566]

This subject which i agree about the jocks skill and trainer intent is there for all to see and interpret and show in the running lines in PP.
But as posted in the past no computer will pick it up.Lokk for a horse that has no workouts in last three months and look at recent running lines good place to start.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by mountainman

True dat. I am sooooooooo tempted to start a thread about subtle tipoffs that a jock isn't trying. I have on- air euphemisms for such incidents, but it's dangerous territory for an in-house handicapper. It's a tad easier (and far less risky) to imply that a trainer has "set one up," or likes to "cash a ticket."

Either way, i can rarely resist going there on the show, and that may someday end me as an analyst. Oh well.

When you believe a jockey hasn't tried in a race, do you report it to the stewards?

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

When you believe a jockey hasn't tried in a race, do you report it to the stewards?

Most horses in the lower classes are raced into shape and they are not sent out to win until they are race fit.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Most horses in the lower classes are raced into shape and they are not sent out to win until they are race fit.

I've owned about 20 horses over time, most of which would fit the "lower class" category, and I really couldn't disagree more. But that's just me.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I've owned about 20 horses over time, most of which would fit the "lower class" category, and I really couldn't disagree more. But that's just me.

Did they have regular workouuts

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Did they have regular workouuts

If they'd missed time, absolutely. We never sent a horse into a race not trying to win. I had no interest in finishing second or third. None. Of course we did lose about 80% of the time, which is probably why I don't own horses currently! If they were racing every few weeks, they weren't worked between races. If you have a 6-yr-old gelding that's raced 60 times and he's racing every few weeks, there's typically ZERO reason to work the horse between races. They just ain't getting anymore fit.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

When you believe a jockey hasn't tried in a race, do you report it to the stewards?

No. I'm just an ast racing sex, and neither that, nor my experience as a handicapper or analyst, empowers or qualifies me to presume I've seen something the stewards missed, or that my opinion is more valid than that of anyone else who watched the same race.

[5k-claim]

Originally Posted by mountainman

No. I'm just an ast racing sex, and neither that, nor...

Yikes.

I am planning on shipping in with a nice little filly next Sunday. Please stay away from the receiving barn if I wander off to the casino to get something to eat... I need this filly happy and eager, not traumatized.

BTW.... special request... can you bring back that F&M NW4L going 7.5f Turf for $15k ?? You ran it June 26, race 4.

Thanks!
.