Creating Lottery-level Payoffs for Horseracing

[VastinMT]

Saw this description of two ideas for how to create huge wins in horseracing and make some "life-altering" buzz that surrounds a big gambling payday:

Additions to the wagering model

I like the second idea better than the first (a kind of top-to-bottom super-duper-fecta that only pays out on one ticket, with rollover), but would be curious to know what everyone here thinks about the ideas and the possibility of them being implemented at thoroughbred tracks.

[Tom]

So you end up with one very rich guy, who probably never goes to the track again, and thousands of broke players not able to bet any more.

[OTM Al]

To get lottery level payoffs, you need lottery level odds of winning. So why not just play the lottery then? Too many way too difficult to win bets running around out there already.

[Jay Trotter]

The first idea would never work. The horses are assets and owners aren't going to participate that puts their valuable asset into the hands of some random schmuck driver/rider. I would think this would be especially more so with the trotters, as many of the drivers are also owner/trainers. They would want to control their own entry.

The second idea has some merit but I don't think it's going to draw in any non-traditional fans.

[therussmeister]

To get lottery level payouts, you need a lot of people to bet the gimmick before there is a lottery level payout sized pool. People don't want to do that. That's why almost no tracks can run a pick 6 of any consequence anymore.

[salty]

What terrible ideas

How about making cheap claiming races have a minimum of 14 entries to create some ridiculous payoffs. That way you have lots of inconsistent horses that will produce large tri and super payoffs. And even better, make it the start and end of every pick 6

[Robert Goren]

That was the idea behind pick 6s when they started. But lottery figured out a way to get bigger and bigger. People with large amounts of capital figured out a way to swoop in and win pick 6s when the pots got big. That idea is a failure as of today. I know of several bettors who "lucked" into some 100k+ pick 6s in the 80s. They put almost all of it back into the pools. I doubt if any of them has/had a positive balance sheet for their lifetime of betting. I seriously doubt that racing can ever compete with the lottery again.
Its main competition use to be slot machines. They are cheap and easy to play and in the short run give a player a better(although still awful)of coming out a grand a head for the night. Not so anymore. Horse racing has moved on from trying to compete with slots too. It has stopped trying to compete with any other form of gambling . Betting the ponies has somehow to turned itself into an intellectual game to prove to yourself (and less likely others) how smart you are by winning money. It for the most part has left the luck behind as part of its appeal. This has hurt the sport in its attempt to draw more people to the track. The fact that the ponies are so hard to beat is both its greatest appeal and its greatest disincentive. Now back to trying figure out a way to pick a winner.

[nearco]

They have a bet in Sweden called the V75. It's basically a pick-7. Lot of people in Sweden play it every weekend, even people that would not normally be betting folk. It's kind of like their lottery. The minimum wager is the equivalent of 10 cents.

[Pacingguy]

The V75 is very popular overseas because you can buy the tickets where we buy lottery tickets.

As for where the drivers are randomly assigned horses, you may have to restrict it to certain drivers. Perhaps the 'A' drivers only, or if you want to have races for second class drivers, you would need to offer a higher purse.

As for having to pick all the horses in a race in order and to be the only ticket, I do think it would gain some attention. Though perhaps it would have to be offered as a game jointly with the state lottery, with a percentage going towards the purse account and racetracks. People can randomly pick their tickets at the lottery window, or they can make the wager at the track where they can make their own selection. They could even be too separate pools with the lottery pool being paid out each drawing where tickets with the combination was sold and the track having an only one winning ticket rule.

No, we can't compete with the lottery, but you need to remember some people quit racing because they couldn't stand the $2.40 or $5 payoffs for win. If they get word of the big payoffs a bet like this can pay, they may come back. Either way, what is the harm of trying it.

However, I do admit there are too many Pick 4s, Pick 5s, Supefectas, etc. I have no problem with the wagers, but you need to place them strategically and not in every race. You need to keep the churn going.

[racingfan378]

if you had full fields of 10+ horses over 6 races and the playing field was level (as in no 3/5 shots), the bettors would have a field day chasing a big PK 6 payout everytime. Twin tri, Tri Supers, etc are a thing of the past

look at GP with the pick six paying $753k on a $2.40 ticket in Las Vegas!!

Thats great F-ing public relations for this sport right there...

Spend (practically) $2.50 and hit 3/4 of a million dollars!

I do agree on the overkill of pk4,5 supers etc

I love the old CA racing rule, you must have 8 horses for a super. Nowadays, CA runs a field of 4 and STILL offers the damn bet. Greed 101 right there!

[VastinMT]

What I'm hearing is that a lottery-level payoff (and the buzz it would create among non-players) is not likely to occur. Because there's a lottery. And slots.

So is the consensus here that we don't need any different kinds of bets in horseracing to attract newcomers and grow the game?

Given the low general interest in horseracing in the US, how does this game keep going?

The V75 is an interesting idea. So how does racing grow in those countries where it is healthy? How is the game in those countries different? What is the competition in those places?