5 important lessons

[Dave Schwartz]

I saw this today and really like it.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[boxcar]

Good stuff, Dave!

Boxcar

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

......... that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

The last line is where we are, I'd say....Plain as day to me...(sadly)

best,

[horses4courses]

These may be important lessons according to you, Dave.
No doubt, you will also receive plenty of support from subscribers on here.
Your arguments, however, are flawed.

The biggest flaw is that higher taxes for the top 5-10% of earners in the U.S. will never affect their prosperity.
Does it reach into their pocketbook? Yes.
Does it lower their living standard? Not to any noticeable degree.

There is always talk about taking away from those who have earned their wealth.
None of that focus is ever upon those with unlimited wealth who have never worked a day in their lives.

My family and I are comfortably off, but by no means big earners.
Am I willing to pay taxes to contribute to running the system, at both local and federal levels? Yes, I am.
So are most people in a civilized society.

Are there those within society who take advantage of the system? Yes.
Could the system be more equitable and efficient to benefit those who truely deserve aid? Yes.
Where I think we agree is that there must be a higher incentive to work, and to achieve, than there is at present.

One must remember, also, that the majority of our tax dollars are not direct handouts. They go towards maintaining that which runs our daily lives, such as infrastructure, etc. Is there waste and mismanagement? Of course.

A society where only the strongest survive borders on catastrophic.
Is there a need to widely re-distribute wealth in this nation?
I don't believe so. No need for a socialist takeover - just some common sense.

The system needs a lot of tweaking, though, and that would best be started by higher tax levels for the very top level earners, imo.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I saw this today and really like it.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
This might be true if that were the goal. The object is to get the wealthy to give up some of their prosperity to aid the country as a whole. We do this by imposing minimum wages, by strengthening unions, and by not allowing corporations to influence elections. When we do all this things (and others) we find that we all prosper including the wealthy.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
Some people receive more than they deserve for their work; some people deserve more than they receive. The deck is stacked against the poor.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Government exists to level the playing field. Money is power. Think of harness racing. Imagine if their were no breaking rule. Why would anyone go to see a race in which anyone could win just by not maintaining the proper gait. Government keeps the contest fair.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
Yes we can!! I mean yes you can. If fact dividing wealth is the best way of multiplying it. Keeping wealth concentrated in a few hands stagnates it. Spreading it out ensures that it will be used; that it will multiply.

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

This one goes back to the belief that because almost half the people don't pay one type of federal income tax, that half the people aren't working. That is patently false. The unemployment rate is now 8.5% not 50%. Most of that 50% are working and are working very hard. They just are not getting paid very much for their labor.

I know that you think a person who earns $1m a year by sitting in an office deciding to move a factory to Mexico and layoff a thousand workers is working harder than a person who earns $20K a year at McDonalds. I do not.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

The system needs a lot of tweaking, though, and that would best be started by higher tax levels for the very top level earners, imo.

You almost got something right. The "system" is broken and needs to be replaced -- not merely tweaking. Thanks, though,, for confirming for us that social engineering schemes that were constructed on the basis of contrived civil rights that people are entitled to own this thing, that thing or something else leave very much to be desired.

Punishing success with taxation is hardly the answer.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by mostpost

This one goes back to the belief that because almost half the people don't pay one type of federal income tax, that half the people aren't working. That is patently false. The unemployment rate is now 8.5% not 50%. Most of that 50% are working and are working very hard. They just are not getting paid very much for their labor.

I know that you think a person who earns $1m a year by sitting in an office deciding to move a factory to Mexico and layoff a thousand workers is working harder than a person who earns $20K a year at McDonalds. I do not.

The real rate is much higher than 8.5%. What about all the unemployed whose unemployment benefits have expired and are no longer counted because they have fallen off the radar screen? Or what about all the underemployed?

Boxcar

[Tom]

Real life unemployment is far higher than the 9% we have had reported.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by Tom

Real life unemployment is far higher than the 9% we have had reported.

A simple way to keep score these days, may simply be, to track the numbers of people now living beneath the bridges of the big roads, or in the alleyways, or deserted buildings of Amerika....They are growing by the day in my neck of the woods....Out of work, out of money, out of housing, and out of hope....That is what I see....

So F- all the graphs and such.....We must get real, you can't fake this aspect...

best,

[Ocala Mike]

Here's another important lesson:

You can't win an election in 2012 by IGNORING the high unemployment/underemployment figures and OBSESSING on things like gun control, a state's right to ban contraception, gays marrying, and which R is greedier than the other. This seems to be the takeaway from this primary fight. Republicans forget what happened in 1992.


Ocala Mike

[Tom]

Is that the fault of the candidates or the morons who call themselves moderators? I have not yet seen one single moderators worth a damn.

I have not yet seen one real debate.

You can't win an election in 2012 by IGNORING the high unemployment/underemployment figures and OBSESSING on things like gun control, a state's right to ban contraception, gays marrying

This all can apply equally to Obama. And he very well might win it by doing these very things. When voting him out of office will mean an end to the free ride 40% of the urban population enjoys in key electoral states, the results are pretty much inevitable.

[bigmack]

Show the post from Mostpost to a team of doctors. A consensus of recommended institutionalization would burst forth from the lot of 'em.

This guy needs to be in a protective environment with thoughts like those.

[sammy the sage]

Everybody posting in THIS thread is debating the "Tip/Top" of the iceberg...which is ONLY 10% of THE problem...

The 90% just like the iceberg is below THE surface...

That would be....what you ask....

The CREATION of fiat money outta thin air...it's DOUBLED since 2007...just like the national debt or if you will...the price of gas or gold...

Oh and the upper 1% FILTHY rich DID it...period...

The outlay for social programs PALES when compared TO this crap...

I had two customers in today...both w/Master's degrees coming from college...backing Ron Paul...I said to them...to bad he's un-electable...and if he was to win....there'd be an accident...

The BIG banks CONTROL all...

sorry to interrupt...remember...don't take yourself so seriously....you just gonna die anyways

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Here's another important lesson:

You can't win an election in 2012 by IGNORING the high unemployment/underemployment figures and OBSESSING on things like gun control, a state's right to ban contraception, gays marrying, and which R is greedier than the other. This seems to be the takeaway from this primary fight. Republicans forget what happened in 1992.


Ocala Mike

So, you have noticed how the media moderators in these "debates" have been ducking this embarrassing issue on behalf of their man child. They ask all these stupid questions about secondary issue, while the avoiding the big problems in our country today.

Boxcar

[sammy the sage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, you have noticed how the media moderators in these "debates" have been ducking this embarrassing issue on behalf of their man child. They ask all these stupid questions about secondary issue, while the avoiding the big problems in our country today.

Boxcar

Ask yourself...who CONTROLS the media...why that's be...in other words...don't matter if Romney or Obama wins...just so's it not Paul