No research shows that Salix masks other medications or effects bone strength!!

[andymays]

Education Early Focus of Medication Summit | BloodHorse.com

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ication-summit

Excerpt:

Questions from the audience focused on Salix’s effect on performance, its impact on bone strength, and whether the drug is capable of masking illegal drugs in racehorses. A panel of veterinarians—Dr. Ed Robinson, Dr. Stephen Reed, and Dr. Rick Sams—concluded there was no research that showed Salix affected bone strength, and that research has shown the drug does not effectively mask other medications.

[OTM Al]

I have no doubt this is correct. However, why should it affect bones? It sucks the liquids right out of their bodies. I would be much more concerned about what it does to their muscles, hearts and kidneys. When is the last time you saw a horse urinate before a race? I never have and the reason is that this stuff dries them out so completely BEFORE they are about to physically exert themselves. You wonder why a sweating horse is such a bad thing? It's because they are losing even more moisture from their bodies beyond the nervousness and energy being lost. It's like a wrestler cutting weight drastically before a bout. Done correctly it gives an advantage, but go too far and it does great damage and the line is fine between the two.

[Rise Over Run]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

IHowever, why should it affect bones? It sucks the liquids right out of their bodies. I would be much more concerned about what it does to their muscles, hearts and kidneys. When is the last time you saw a horse urinate before a race? I never have and the reason is that this stuff dries them out so completely BEFORE they are about to physically exert themselves.

I knew it was a diuretic, but I never thought about it that way. At the track, you never see one of the racehorses urinating. Spend a day at the zoo and you see about one type of every animal relieving themselves.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Is it a myth that Lasix will make someone pass a drug test?
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=&q=la...w=1400&bih=879

I'm wondering what studies were done that prove that Lasix doesn't mask other drugs. Were they cited?

Also, I don't think too many vets would be supporting a drop in use of drugs whether it is Lasix or anything else. I don't see them saying "I think we should make a heck of a lot less money than we are making right now."

I'd like to see some real studies done by objective people.

[Jasonm921]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I have no doubt this is correct. However, why should it affect bones? It sucks the liquids right out of their bodies. I would be much more concerned about what it does to their muscles, hearts and kidneys. When is the last time you saw a horse urinate before a race? I never have and the reason is that this stuff dries them out so completely BEFORE they are about to physically exert themselves. You wonder why a sweating horse is such a bad thing? It's because they are losing even more moisture from their bodies beyond the nervousness and energy being lost. It's like a wrestler cutting weight drastically before a bout. Done correctly it gives an advantage, but go too far and it does great damage and the line is fine between the two.

Good point.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Is it a myth that Lasix will make someone pass a drug test?
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=&q=la...w=1400&bih=879

I'm wondering what studies were done that prove that Lasix doesn't mask other drugs. Were they cited?

Also, I don't think too many vets would be supporting a drop in use of drugs whether it is Lasix or anything else. I don't see them saying "I think we should make a heck of a lot less money than we are making right now."

I'd like to see some real studies done by objective people.

Maybe it's a question of whether your testing urine or blood. With a urine test I can see where a diuretic might help, you're increasing the volume of liquid, reducing the concentration of any one thing. With a blood test, if it's there in an effective dose, it's detectable.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I have no doubt this is correct. However, why should it affect bones? It sucks the liquids right out of their bodies. I would be much more concerned about what it does to their muscles, hearts and kidneys. When is the last time you saw a horse urinate before a race? I never have and the reason is that this stuff dries them out so completely BEFORE they are about to physically exert themselves.

This is why I've always wondered why Lasix use is so prevalent, even among horses who haven't demonstrated a NEED for the drug.

[5k-claim]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Maybe it's a question of whether your testing urine or blood. With a urine test I can see where a diuretic might help, you're increasing the volume of liquid, reducing the concentration of any one thing. With a blood test, if it's there in an effective dose, it's detectable.

That is an excellent point that makes so much sense that I wish I had thought of it, but I didn't.

Maybe this is why if you win the very last race on a late-night card and everyone in the test barn just wants to go home and is tired of waiting on your horse to give a urine sample they can just take the blood sample and go on with it...

From the reports of the meetings at Belmont today it appears as if the actual Lasix study that was done may ultimately lose out to "PUBLIC PERCEPTION" and polls.

Good job, everybody.

.

[Gallop58]

I have seen a substantiated 'net reference to a vet who demo'd how he had a horse pass a drug test (bute I think) when on Lasix with the med clearly given well within the usual withdrawl times published. When I read the above Belmont statement, I was surprised, because such a statement implies a whole range of testing was done and Lasix was never able to turn what should have been a fail into a pass. I seriously doubt that is the case.


Will post reference if I can find it.

[andymays]

Trainers, vets on summit panels support use of race-day Salix - Thoroughbred Times

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...day-salix.aspx

Excerpt:

Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (G1)-winning trainer Graham Motion said if Salix (furoesemide) were removed as a treatment option for horses who bleed during racing, he would have to retire several Thoroughbreds currently in his stable.

[FenceBored]

On the other hoof, breeding bleeders to bleeders gets you more bleeders.

“The heritability estimates...epistaxis (bleeding from the nostril) fitting both the animal and sire models were 0.23 and 0.40, respectively, which indicated that epistaxis as associated with EIPH in Southern African Thoroughbred sires has a strong genetic basis,” the study stated. “Genetic trends indicating an increase in epistaxis were also found.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1PIqYtvCD

[Tenacross]

This debate was hashed out years ago when lasix first came around. Lasix won out because it is a human treatment for bleeding in race horses. The more the drug was used with no ill effects, it also became to be used as preventative. Horseman had methods to try and control bleeding pre-lasix also. Like twisting a wire tight enough to cut off circulation at the base of the horse's tail to theoretically reduce blood pressure and to withhold feed and WATER for 24 hours before a race.

[Idrivetrotters]

There is a South African study that tracked horses from 1986 to 2002 and the report came out in 2004, that clearly states that bleeding is an inherited trait from the sire.

Here is a link to the article and a recap on the study:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...nherited-trait

It didn't name names, but was pretty clear the imported US stallions are weakening the gene pool due to the overuse of lasix.

South Africa is looking into banning stallions that bleed from standing stud, which Germany already has done.

I'm not against a horse racing on lasix, but they should be taken out of the gene pool, you race on lasix you cant breed. Would definitely cut down on 2 yos and 3yos from just automatically getting lasix (which is what a lot of trainers do).

Older mares and geldings who race, bless them, get your dose and race away. Would keep geldings and mares not suiteable for breeding racing and we would have a fantastic handicap division!

This rule would definitely weed out horses pretty quickly, and the trainers who use it as a crutch.