Crazy Early Money in the Pools

[menifee]

Anybody notice at the smaller tracks, there has been a lot of really crazy early money in the pools? Mountain Race 9 was a good example. Early on 6000k was in the win pool on the eventual 4/5 favorite. Right before post though the horse 1-9 because of the early money. It's happening a lot at CT too.

[menifee]

As I type, it's happening now at CT. 9/5 ml bet down to 1/9 in the early money. 5k in the win pool on the 7. This guy's been doing this quite a bit lately. Screwing up the win pools because sometimes right before the gate opens, he cancels the wager.

[ArlJim78]

Yes I have noticed this a few times very recently, like in the last week or so.
As they're going in the gate a horse is 1-9, after the break and final odds update, the horse pops back up to something like even money.

[PaceAdvantage]

How liberal are some of the ADW cancellation policies. I remember when YouBet first introduced their cancellation feature, there was a bet size limit and a "number of times you could do it in a week" limit. Of course, that latter limit also applies to other areas in life now that I read it back...

[takeout]

Some kind of booster play, maybe?

[Ocala Mike]

This goes on a lot at "shithouse" tracks where the Mutuel Manager is letting the clerks run wild with their cancellations. At a well run venue, the activity reports for the clerks are examined, and "outliers" who have way too many cancellations are "counselled" about it. In many cases, the clerks are doing it in complicity with some big bettors to influence the betting illicitly.

Used to go on at Yonkers in the late 80's until the Mutuel Manger found out about it and put a stop to it.


Ocala Mike

[Viruss]

I seen fri night MNR 1st race 5k win pool and 10k show ..later that night there was a race with over 150k in the show pool seems crazy to me.

Earl J

[Ocala Mike]

OK, well my post above has only to do with the win pool. Those moves in place and show pools are obviously "bridgejumper" moves and have nothing to do with oddsboard "gaming for fun and profit."

I hadn't considered, either, the possibility that the large win bets could be coming in from an offtrack site through a "hub" and are then cancelled by the bettor himself. This is an interesting subject, and something that I thought was supposed to be "fixed" after that P/6 fiasco in the Breeders Cup that those Drexel guys jobbed. Don't know what the different cancellation rules are for all the ADW's out there, but it's probably something that needs looking into.


Ocala Mike

[lamboguy]

BEAVER is back from an extended vacation

[Robert Fischer]

DAM

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Yes I have noticed this a few times very recently, like in the last week or so.
As they're going in the gate a horse is 1-9, after the break and final odds update, the horse pops back up to something like even money.

If a person wants to bet 1k on a horse who figures to be 3-5, he can bet 5k to win on that horse and make him 1-9 which will force other bettors to bet on someone else.....then, he cancells 4k of his 5k at the end when its too late and he gets even money on his pick instead of 3-5. Its brilliant strategy.

[menifee]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

If a person wants to bet 1k on a horse who figures to be 3-5, he can bet 5k to win on that horse and make him 1-9 which will force other bettors to bet on someone else.....then, he cancells 4k of his 5k at the end when its too late and he gets even money on his pick instead of 3-5. Its brilliant strategy.

I think this is what's happening. This bettor is trying to screw with others and the pricing in the pool. I have to imagine if he can time it perfectly, he can keep others out of the win pool on his horse than cancel a portion of the wager and get the true odds he is looking for. It really screws everything up. At CT, I liked a horse and was getting ridiculous odds on this horse (over 15-1). This guy had come in on somebody else. I dropped a lot on him, more than I would do if the horse had been priced accurately. Suddenly the gates open and the odds dropped tremendously. My value bet lost its value. The horse lost and I lost more than I would have on the race if the true price of the horse had not been masked.

[Ocala Mike]

OK, the above two posters probably reflect what is going on, so my question is why can't the rules on cancellations be tightened up; i.e., once the bet is reflected in the tote it can't be cancelled or else other restrictions on the number of times or the amounts?

Probably explains a lot of those cases where a horse is 6-1 at post time, and drops to 7-2 during the race.


Ocala Mike

[GaryG]

At one time earlyor unusual betting action was a positive sign, but in today's environment it means nothing. IMO it is a waste of time to worry about it.

[lamboguy]

when a horse breaks through the gate prior to the race, that horse neve wins. people with cancel buttons are able to cancel the almost sure losing ticket. the people that can't cancel are trapped like rats. this is one of the inefficiencies of this game. when i see this happen, if i am involved and the horse is short priced, i not only cancel, but i pick something else. this is truly unfair, but it exists today.

since i have been betting at this game for awhile, i know most of the time where the money is coming from and who is betting the money. in this particular instance the guy that is betting all the money on the b-tracks is sitting in a casino in las vegas, and he is not cancelling his tickets. he is bullying the pools. he does the same thing with cold exacta's. he is usually only going in on high rebate tracks, but i did see him make a move in belmont's first race friday for $20k and the winner paid $2.30.