Horse Players and The Generation Gap

[twindouble]

While posting here last night I became acutely aware of how old arguments and opinions have been recycled here and on the old DRF forum. That's going back 12 to 15 years. Not that it didn't cross my mind many times during that period but what struck me last night was how long it's been going on. Back in the DRF forum days I was also aware of gap between us old timers and the new kids on the block. My thoughts were, there's no way in hell these computer geek's will replace traditional handicapping or the language that goes with it and I resented the very thought of it, still do today.

Racing to me has an historical and cultural bond that in my mind shouldn't be messed with and it would wrong to attempt to change it. At times I considered maybe I'm just being a stubborn old goat, only because I have over the years excepted some changes in the game and I was quick to set aside my hand tools and go for the power tools. I never bought those tools until they proved to be, durable, practical and a tool that produced. That's the way I looked at the Daily Racing Form, my "bible".

That tool (DRF) put me into my 50th year playing the horses. Why would I want let that go or incorporate it into a computer program? As I've said and many here, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". The modern handicappers perpetuate that generation gap by promoting the idea that computer technology is the in thing. To me that was and still is an assault on racing's traditions because I believe new players wouldn't appreciate the true essence of the game. The OTB experience is doesn't come close to the track experience 50 TV'S showing 8 different tracks, bar rooms with a name over the door (The Paddock), screaming patrons in a small building with lousy acoustics that's painful to the ears. Boy, that was a great leap forward after the tracks and fairs closed up around us.Sure there's a few left that put up with OTB just across the line in NY but I doubt that will be there next year.

At one time you couldn't go anywhere around here without bumping into many people, with a racing form or connected to racing in one why or another. Today they don't exist and the kids know nothing about racing. That gap and eliminating the cultural connection was the primary reason why there's not a new generation of players in this area. Can the modern media replace that? That remains to be seen but even it did work to some extent, those new players will never understand or feel the heart beat of racing in their communities. How many tracks have closed and will close in the near future? Sitting at this computer offers very little compared to those days. So, I come here to drive you guy's nuts. Yes, I've touched on this subject before.

Today, I'm at the point where I think if the racing industry doesn't care about the long standing traditions or the cultural effect on the fan base by closing up shop, why should I care at my age. The young will takeover anyway, whatever form racing takes or if it even survives.

I'll end this by saying that the most profound and long lasting lessons I learned as a child came from the elderly. Here's a link. Watch it, then come back and tell me I should dump my traditional thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueFbT3L7Yzw

[Greyfox]

Excellent video.

Tell you to dump your traditional thinking? I wouldn't do that. However, this is 2010 and I know that new ideas evolve when old men die.
There's no going back to the past. However, the past of that track is probably the future of several across this land.

(By the way, it's amazing more of those old barns across America didn't go up in flames. They were accidents waiting to happen.)

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Excellent video.

Tell you to dump your traditional thinking? I wouldn't do that. However, this is 2010 and I know that new ideas evolve when old men die.
There's no going back to the past. However, the past of that track is probably the future of several across this land.

(By the way, it's amazing more of those old barns across America didn't go up in flames. They were accidents waiting to happen.)

That's right, old isn't necessarily good when it comes to safety but extract tradition from anything of value, and it will disappear.

[twindouble]

However, this is 2010 and I know that new ideas evolve when old men die. Quote; Greyfox;

Like I said, I don't buy into new ideas just because they are new or changing what has worked for millennium. I like to cook, if I bought everything that was "new" and innovative in kitchen appliances and gadgets over the last 50 years, that would have been a dumb thing to do, 95% of it turned out to be junk in a short time. To me the dot com's were a joke from day one. How many survived after the crap hit the fan? I stay with what works and I would never buy into having a computer take over the basic functions of my truck like breaks and accelerator. Common sense to me. New and inovative ideas can do you in, not just make things better.

Digital horse racing for morons that have no idea what racing is all about. Anyone who thinks that's the ticket help save racing has more than one screw loose. I can see it all now 500 machines that will pay a jackpot, go ahead pick one that's about to payoff if you handicap it right, if you want to call it handicapping.

Why do think back in the 30's and 40's slot machines were called "one arm bandits". Smart common sense people didn't play them. It's beyond me why the racing industry didn't think their product couldn't compete with slots or poker. They didn't take them on. Freaking dummies. I'm not going hash over all the dumb ass things they did or didn't do, everyone here knows anyway and they are still at it.

[Dave Schwartz]

TwinDouble,

This is a really good point that you have made.

My outlook on racing is different from yours. Racing has always been a means to an ends. That said, I still understand where you are coming from.

Perhaps an even better place to draw this analogy is baseball. Many of us who were enjoying baseball in the 50s-60s-70s are very disappointed with the baseball game of today; the way it has evolved and dare I say "ruined" by free agency and drugs.


It is obvious that the racing of tomorrow (or at least the day after tomorrow) is likely to be far different than what you and I remember and liked about racing when we got started.

Racing must change to survive. I think we all get that. Have you ever been to the Racing Museum in Saratoga? What bothers me is how distant the feel of racing today is from what we "feel" at that museum. It promises to be worse tomorrow.

Thanks for bringing this up.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[46zilzal]

NOTHING stays the same. The Chinese have a daily ritual in that honor in the study of the I CHING.

Racing is no different. I f you study the early part of the century racing was outlawed in NY and California (the latter from 1912-14 to after prohibition was repealed). Why do you think Caliente came into being?

It will happen again and as painful as it will be, the roots of it will persist even though in a much reduced scope and form.

The deal with the devil (the dreaded Racino) has gone about as far as it can go and the bubble is now starting to break in both NY and California again. The NBA goons who now runs racing are akin to letting a fox manage the chicken house, or more correctly a sheet metal worker called in to manage a farm. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Nothing in racing happens for the first time.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Takeouts were around 10% back in the 30's. You could only bet WPS (not sure when exactors, quinellas, doubles came into the picture (but if any were available back then, we are talking one dd and one ex or quinella daily.

As for horse racing's reputation. It has always had a cheating (race fixing and/or drugs) element associated with it, and the bettors have always been seen by the general public as most degenerate gamblers, especially those who deem themselves to be regulars.

The general public doesn't perceive horse race bettors any different than slot players, football bettors, blackjack players, etc.

[QuarterCrack]

The old ways and methods were also new at one time.

Everyone is different; as long as everyone has something that works for them, that's what counts. If someone is happy with a pen-and-paper method, then great. If someone prefers software or databases, then great. We have a large proliferation of data right now, in many many forms. This is good from a standpoint of having a lot of options available to the player.

On the subject of your post, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Do you feel like someone is trying to change your handicapping ways? I don't see how that is possible - you can handicap off the Form as long as you want. Who is trying to make you dump your traditional thinking? Nobody can do that - only you can change your thinking.

As for the cultural connection, I hate to say it, but it's gone and is never coming back. Not only is racing now a couple generations removed from being a bigtime gambling outlet, with lotteries, casinos, etc. taking the forefront, but the whole sporting element of it is gone, as well. Nobody cares about racing from a sporting standpoint anymore. Racing shot itself in the foot by not setting its own mark at the beginning of the media age, and as subsequent generations don't pick up the torch, racing drifts further and further away from relevance.

That ship has sailed, and I'm not sure what the answer is. In my opinion, they should promote the sport 100% from the gambling side of things, as opposed to sport or pageantry. That is the only chance they have of coming back. Sports will fall off the map over time, but gambling has always been here and will always be here. It just takes different forms. Racing just needs to get back on track with establishing itself as a prominent form of gambling outlet.

And when it does come back, you'll be right there with your pen and paper and your Form, and I'll be there with my computer software. And everything will be right with the world!

[46zilzal]

Where race track execs MISS the boat completely is in explaining how one can pick and choose in a parimutuel system as opposed to you take what you get in regular gambling.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

NOTHING stays the same. The Chinese have a daily ritual in that honor in the study of the I CHING.

Racing is no different. I f you study the early part of the century racing was outlawed in NY and California (the latter from 1912-14 to after prohibition was repealed). Why do you think Caliente came into being?

It will happen again and as painful as it will be, the roots of it will persist even though in a much reduced scope and form.

The deal with the devil (the dreaded Racino) has gone about as far as it can go and the bubble is now starting to break in both NY and California again. The NBA goons who now runs racing are akin to letting a fox manage the chicken house, or more correctly a sheet metal worker called in to manage a farm. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Nothing in racing happens for the first time.

46; I wrote at least ten paragraphs on another forum on how " Racing has changed over the years". Things that I had to adapt to and the things that I liked that made me money. So I have been well aware that everything changes over time, good handicappers know when to take advantage of those changes. I only slept 6 hrs a day and some days no sleep at all, never slept all day every day. LOL. 4:30 AM to get the form before anyone else, tipping the driver. I can except change but it upsets me when some think racing can be turned into some it's not.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by twindouble

46; I wrote at least ten paragraphs on another forum on how " Racing has changed over the years". Things that I had to adapt to and the things that I liked that made me money. So I have been well aware that everything changes over time, good handicappers know when to take advantage of those changes. I only slept 6 hrs a day and some days no sleep at all, never slept all day every day. LOL. 4:30 AM to get the form before anyone else, tipping the driver. I can except change but it upsets me when some think racing can be turned into some it's not.

I have not bought a form in years....The fact that I work at the track allows me free access to them anyway, but ON LINE they are both cheaper and far handier than the bulky paper

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by QuarterCrack

The old ways and methods were also new at one time.

Everyone is different; as long as everyone has something that works for them, that's what counts. If someone is happy with a pen-and-paper method, then great. If someone prefers software or databases, then great. We have a large proliferation of data right now, in many many forms. This is good from a standpoint of having a lot of options available to the player.

On the subject of your post, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Do you feel like someone is trying to change your handicapping ways? I don't see how that is possible - you can handicap off the Form as long as you want. Who is trying to make you dump your traditional thinking? Nobody can do that - only you can change your thinking.

As for the cultural connection, I hate to say it, but it's gone and is never coming back. Not only is racing now a couple generations removed from being a bigtime gambling outlet, with lotteries, casinos, etc. taking the forefront, but the whole sporting element of it is gone, as well. Nobody cares about racing from a sporting standpoint anymore. Racing shot itself in the foot by not setting its own mark at the beginning of the media age, and as subsequent generations don't pick up the torch, racing drifts further and further away from relevance.

That ship has sailed, and I'm not sure what the answer is. In my opinion, they should promote the sport 100% from the gambling side of things, as opposed to sport or pageantry. That is the only chance they have of coming back. Sports will fall off the map over time, but gambling has always been here and will always be here. It just takes different forms. Racing just needs to get back on track with establishing itself as a prominent form of gambling outlet.

And when it does come back, you'll be right there with your pen and paper and your Form, and I'll be there with my computer software. And everything will be right with the world!

I've been trying to drive home how important the cultural thread is in racing when it comes to creating and preserving fans. The day racing is no longer perceived as a sport and just a gambling venue, well you can kiss it good by. There's to many involved on the other side that would disagree with you, the very ones we support at the windows. Those are the elites of the game including all the writers of the "sport". Sure there are hard core gamblers in the game but they will all be interested in the out come of the Blossom and those two horses will end up the hall of fame. That's another thing over the years I've driving home, it is and should be all about the horse, historically that's a fact.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

I have not bought a form in years....The fact that I work at the track allows me free access to them anyway, but ON LINE they are both cheaper and far handier than the bulky paper

agree, there's is benefits being on this computer, hell I wouldn't be able to find a form here any longer anyway, all the tracks closed up like I said and no one around here is interested in racing any longer. Forget the young ones, like I said, they know nothing about racing. There just a few OTB old goats left. Online wagering kept me going, don't have to drive a long distance every day getting to a track, saves money and time. That don't mean I wouldn't go to a track with one close by, it's a better social environment than sitting in this closet, that's why I'm here.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by twindouble

I've been trying to drive home how important the cultural thread is in racing when it comes to creating and preserving fans. The day racing is no longer perceived as a sport and just a gambling venue, well you can kiss it good by. There's to many involved on the other side that would disagree with you, the very ones we support at the windows. Those are the elites of the game including all the writers of the "sport". Sure there are hard core gamblers in the game but they will all be interested in the out come of the Blossom and those two horses will end up the hall of fame. That's another thing over the years I've driving home, it is and should be all about the horse, historically that's a fact.

There used to be a culture that used horses for transportation. It is over with.
As long as racing doesn't realize it is a gambling venue and not about the horses, racing will continue to die.
Sorry, but Willoughby only exists in the past (that is a Twilight Zone reference).

Today, for horse racing to grow it needs to appeal to the younger bettors and potential bettors, and then a new culture can form.

[QuarterCrack]

The cultural experience is something that develops AFTER someone is already into the game. Maybe it's important when it comes to keeping fans intrigued with the sport, but when it comes to attracting new fans, it's totally irrelevant.

I mean, when you take someone to the track for the first time, you're not doing it from the standpoint of, "Hey, let's spend the day at the track so we can watch horses run and enjoy the pageantry and history of the sport". You instead present it as, "Hey, let's spend the day at the track - we can bet some ponies and maybe win a few bucks."

Nobody was drawn to poker, for example, because of its cultural history. It was about winning money. Once they became immersed in the game, then perhaps they came to appreciate the cultural significance, etc. of the game. But it was not what drew them in.

I agree with what was posted above - the only way for horse racing to grow is to appeal to potential bettors. You said yourself - the people who put money through the windows are the ones who support the people on the backstretch. So the ultimate goal is bringing in bettors.

Look at it the other way - say I was a huge horse racing fan who loved it for the sport itself and its history, etc. But I never wagered a single dime on the races. How am I helping grow the sport? I'm not.

That's why the gambling aspect must be the main draw if racing is going to grow in the future.