Gulfstream Park and Santa Anita

[BobD]

Is anybody familiar with the signal distribution arrangements for these two Magna tracks for this upcoming season?

I've heard that there are issues but I don't know if the issues relate to specific ADWs (twinspires.com for example) or the general distribution.

I'd like to proactively establish a new ADW account if I need to before the start of these racing dates.

[Jeff P]

Whether or not you are impacted depends on your state of residence... see this thread:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=63953

Along the lines of proactively establishing a new ADW account... If you are interested in being treated well (with access to just about all track signals) by a rock solid parimutuel ADW willing to earn your business by offering the best rebates out there...

Contact me privately (private message or email) and I'll put you in touch with somebody uniquely qualified to answer your questions, evaluate your situation, and help you find a "home" matching your specific needs.


Jeff Platt

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[slew101]

Twin Spires will be offering Santa Anita and Gulfstream. They are a rock solid operation. Easy withdrawal, despoit methods.

Their bonus program is mostly geared to the really big players, so you won't make much back in their rewards program, but even a little something back is better than nothing.

[Jeff P]

CDI/Twinspires will treat you well in a lot of different areas... high quality video, free past performances, etc.

But philosophically I can't support them.

CDI/Twinspires is behind Tracknet which has a history of doing a lot of things behind the scenes that are player unfriendly.

Take the current Mid Altantic signal impasse for example. Tracknet is the side trying to drive prices up.

Quietly behind the scenes, for about the past two years - Tracknet has been forcing non CDI/Twinspires ADWs to accept signal contracts with ever higher signal fees - effectively driving up the wholesale cost of a wager.

This has an effect. It leaves ADWs with less room margin wise to give incentives back to the everyday player.

This creates a domino effect. As track signal fees go up, ADWs have no choice but to cut rebates... which in turn causes players to bet less... which in turn means lower handle... which in turn leads to purse cuts... which in turn leads to owners pulling out of the game... which in turn leads to smaller fields... which in turn leads to players betting even less... which feeds back into the cycle... causing the seemingly never ending loop that we find ourselves in.

It would be different if CDI/Twinspires were doing something proactive about better pricing for the everyday player. But that's not the case.

Want rebates? Tracknet has a long standing policy. In order to qualify for rebates, players must meet a min handle threshhold of $1 million a year. That averages out to about $4k a day if you play every day. Fail to meet that and you are out of luck.

Even if you meet it for an extended time period -- if you decide to take a break - and allow your play to fall off as a result -- Tracknet subjects ADWs to audit. If their auditors notice that you took an extended break causing your play to drop off -- Tracknet will force your ADW to cut off your rebates... further feeding the cycle described above.

Think I am making this up? It happened to Barry Meadow.

CDI/Twinspires will treat you well in a lot of different areas... but philosophically they are doing a lot of things behind the scenes that are unfriendly to the everyday player.

As a result, I can't support them.


-jp

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[rrpic6]

Well said Jeff. I'll sum up your post: Twinspires=beancounters extroidinaire.

RR

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

CDI/Twinspires will treat you well in a lot of different areas... high quality video, free past performances, etc.

But philosophically I can't support them.

CDI/Twinspires is behind Tracknet which has a history of doing a lot of things behind the scenes that are player unfriendly.

Take the current Mid Altantic signal impasse for example. Tracknet is the side trying to drive prices up.

Quietly behind the scenes, for about the past two years - Tracknet has been forcing non CDI/Twinspires ADWs to accept signal contracts with ever higher signal fees - effectively driving up the wholesale cost of a wager.

This has an effect. It leaves ADWs with less room margin wise to give incentives back to the everyday player.

This creates a domino effect. As track signal fees go up, ADWs have no choice but to cut rebates... which in turn causes players to bet less... which in turn means lower handle... which in turn leads to purse cuts... which in turn leads to owners pulling out of the game... which in turn leads to smaller fields... which in turn leads to players betting even less... which feeds back into the cycle... causing the seemingly never ending loop that we find ourselves in.

It would be different if CDI/Twinspires were doing something proactive about better pricing for the everyday player. But that's not the case.

Want rebates? Tracknet has a long standing policy. In order to qualify for rebates, players must meet a min handle threshhold of $1 million a year. That averages out to about $4k a day if you play every day. Fail to meet that and you are out of luck.

Even if you meet it for an extended time period -- if you decide to take a break - and allow your play to fall off as a result -- Tracknet subjects ADWs to audit. If their auditors notice that you took an extended break causing your play to drop off -- Tracknet will force your ADW to cut off your rebates... further feeding the cycle described above.

Think I am making this up? It happened to Barry Meadow.

CDI/Twinspires will treat you well in a lot of different areas... but philosophically they are doing a lot of things behind the scenes that are unfriendly to the everyday player.

As a result, I can't support them.


-jp

.

How about Churchill shutting down TSN and saying the hell with all of you customers that have supported TSN all these years.

This group of bean counters at Churchill could care less about their customer base.

I refuse to support any, and all their tracks now and in the future.

________
David-LV

[lsosa54]

I haven't been this ticked off in quite awhile. Because of the dispute with Tracknet, NJ Bets is NOT taking the SAX, GP, or OAK signals. Living in NJ, NJ Bets is the only ADW I can legally use. This is literally the 1st time since I started 'capping in late 1988 that I CAN NOT BET SAX, period. I have to tell you that opening day is always a favorite of mine. What the hell happened to freedom of choice?!

Thank you Magna, Tracknet, CDI, and NJ Bets for not giving a #@%* about racing or your customers.

If anyone knows a way around this that doesn't involve offshore companies keeping in mind my NJ address, please PM me. Thanks.

I'm still flabbergasted.

[bettheoverlay]

If you live in Jersey, there is no internet alternative, outside of off shore.

[castaway01]

This situation is ridiculous---the sides need to just meet in the middle and not deny the bettors in NJ, Del, PA, Md. and VA a chance to bet. There are plenty of other options these days, in every sense of the phrase---offshore, other tracks, or just not wagering at all. When times are tough, you need to make things EASIER for people who might otherwise not wager to do so, not harder. Shame on all companies involved.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Daruty and Tracknet are the bad guys.

They are a middleman in charge of a product and have absolutely no regard for customers or horse racing.

[lsosa54]

4NJBets finally got a message up today upon login (should have been there yesterday!) that due to a contractual dispute, SAX and GGX are not available for wagering. Of course, nothing about "we apologize" or "sorry for the inconvenience", etc.

[RichieP]

Welcome back Al Capone

[Pacingguy]

Being an exclusive harness player, this impasse doesn't bother me; this time. But here is my question:

I realize we all have our favorite tracks. If my faves are not available, then I will go on to my next favorite track. What if the Mid-Atlantic Cooperative just said "Thank you but no Thanks" and just stopped negotiating with Tracknet and featured other tracks? I realize these may be "B' tracks but if they featured a "B" track and all the tracks in the cooperative took wagers on say, Hawthorne, wouldn't Hawthorne's handle get big enough to be worth wagering on?

I realize retaliation may take place in that the Magna and Churchill Downs tracks may refuse to take the signal from Mid-Atlantic Coop tracks but if MAC tracks played hardball, Tracknet may fold quicker. Also, if Tracknet tried to withhold their signal or charge more to tracks that took Mid-Atlantic Coop track signal's, they would definitely run afoul of anti-trust legislation.

Perhaps I am thinking to simple but sometimes the obvious is missed.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by lsosa54

4NJBets finally got a message up today upon login (should have been there yesterday!) that due to a contractual dispute, SAX and GGX are not available for wagering. Of course, nothing about "we apologize" or "sorry for the inconvenience", etc.

I know it's impossible to ever defend njbets, but if it's not their fault, maybe that's why they didn't apologize? From what I've read in the past 24 hours, Tracknet seems to be the culprit here.

[njcurveball]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I know it's impossible to ever defend njbets, but if it's not their fault, maybe that's why they didn't apologize?

In a service business, you always need to treat the customer with respect and appreciation. Two words not in the vocabulary of Racing Management.

If you order a steak and it is not cooked correctly, the waitress will apologize. Certainly she did not cook it, the point being that whoever is in contact with the customer has to convey respect and appreciation.

I can tell you 100% they did not even realize they were not carrying Golden Gate until I contacted them. A week or two ago they completely forgot to put Remington into the system. I waited all night, just to see if they would catch it. After the last race I wrote them for a reason. The reason was basically they forgot.

Their business is very simply, people betting. If they were run as a service business, they would have contacted all customers before the Fair Grounds meet, made every thing clear on what would happen and why they are the mercy of a group of slot machine Managers who could care less about racing.