The State of Big 10 Football - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

CBedo · 11-14-2009, 10:00 PM

Ohio State is headed back to the Rose Bowl after barely getting by Iowa in overtime. They have two losses, to Purdue & USC. I think USC was playing a little better earlier in the year, but they now have 3 losses, including getting pounded by Stanford today.

It seems to me that overall from top to bottom, none of the conferences seem that strong this year, but as usual, the Big 10 has to be among the worst.

cj's dad · 11-15-2009, 08:34 AM

Big 10 - at one time the premier conf. in the US. What the hell happened??

Michigan ?? where are you ??

OTM Al · 11-15-2009, 08:48 AM

I have heard several reasons for this which probably all play a part. First and foremost we have the population movement in the US to the south and west. With the shifts in manufacturing, the midwest just isn't what it used to be. Second, southern and western teams have built themselves as marquee programs and strong routes to the pros. A more conservative element has remained in the Big 10, though that may be changing. Finally, from top to bottom, Big 10 schools are better academically than most any other conference other than the Pac 10, which is also quite good. Let us just say the SEC and the Big 12 don't quite have the standards there.

Overlay · 11-15-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Finally, from top to bottom, Big 10 schools are better academically than most any other conference other than the Pac 10, which is also quite good.

That reminds me of a suggested football cheer I heard one time that was designed for use by schools with more brains than brawn when it came to the gridiron: "Popcorn! Popcorn! Munch, munch, munch! We send 82.7% of our players to graduate school!"

(By the way, if anyone knows the rest of the actual "traditional" cheer that comes after the "Popcorn" introduction, I'd appreciate it if you'd pass it on. I've never heard it or run across it.)

rrbauer · 11-15-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I have heard several reasons for this which probably all play a part. First and foremost we have the population movement in the US to the south and west. With the shifts in manufacturing, the midwest just isn't what it used to be. Second, southern and western teams have built themselves as marquee programs and strong routes to the pros. A more conservative element has remained in the Big 10, though that may be changing. Finally, from top to bottom, Big 10 schools are better academically than most any other conference other than the Pac 10, which is also quite good. Let us just say the SEC and the Big 12 don't quite have the standards there.

Hey Al, in your quest to explain, you neglected to mention that you are a graduate from a Big-10 school. Full disclosure, eh?

OTM Al · 11-15-2009, 05:39 PM

Indeed I am and I am also a graduate from one of the largest private schools in the country that doesn't even have a Div 1 program, except for Fencing.... I think I can support my statements however as I have been involved with frequent research on school quality enough to say the weakest members of the Big 10 schools, Iowa, Mich St and Ohio St, are much on par with any SEC school other than Vandy and any Big 12 school other than, perhaps, Texas. Schools like Michigan, Northwestern, Minnesota, and Purdue (my alma mater) are top flight nationally.

As the Northwestern kids used to chant when the teams were really bad "SAT! SAT!"

sandpit · 11-15-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I have heard several reasons for this which probably all play a part. First and foremost we have the population movement in the US to the south and west. With the shifts in manufacturing, the midwest just isn't what it used to be. Second, southern and western teams have built themselves as marquee programs and strong routes to the pros. A more conservative element has remained in the Big 10, though that may be changing. Finally, from top to bottom, Big 10 schools are better academically than most any other conference other than the Pac 10, which is also quite good. Let us just say the SEC and the Big 12 don't quite have the standards there.

Go here for a really good year by year analysis of college athletes' grad rates. You're right about the big 10 being above most conferences, but it's the ACC that is stronger at the top than any other conference. Most surprising thing to me was Florida's 2008 rate, which would put them second if they were in the Pac 10. Plenty other good info if you're interested...

rrbauer · 11-16-2009, 08:37 AM

Great link Sandpit. Problem is that it's even worse (grad rate disparity between blacks/whites and between athletes/overall) than I had expected.

OTM Al · 11-16-2009, 09:21 AM

Don't wish to disparage grad rates as they are important, but they are only half the story and can be deceptive. If the courses the team members are taking are extremely easy and they are getting extra "help" then they better be graduating. What I am more pointing to is admissions standards combined with rigor of academic coursework. Florida may appear to have great graduation rates, but if the level of the work being done is weak, then such a result is to be expected.

wisconsin · 11-16-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlay

That reminds me of a suggested football cheer I heard one time that was designed for use by schools with more brains than brawn when it came to the gridiron: "Popcorn! Popcorn! Munch, munch, munch! We send 82.7% of our players to graduate school!"

(By the way, if anyone knows the rest of the actual "traditional" cheer that comes after the "Popcorn" introduction, I'd appreciate it if you'd pass it on. I've never heard it or run across it.)

Munch! Munch! Munch! The ref went out to lunch. Eat it ref! Eat it!

Then there's:

Rah! Rah! Rah! Kick him in the knee! Shish! Koom! Bah! Kick him in the other knee!

CBedo · 11-16-2009, 02:44 PM

I don't know the exact numbers, but I suspect Al is correct about entrance standards. I remember that Texas had much higher standards than the Big 8 schools when the Big 12 was formed, and they would not budge on lowering them, threatening not to join if others didn't raise their standards somewhat. The Big 8 caved and did raise entrance standards, but not up to the level of the Southwest Conference schools.

CBedo · 11-16-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

In terms of conferences as a whole, the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) ranked first in average IQ for students and athletes, while the Big Ten conference took first for football players, with an average of 94.7. The Big 12 conference had both the athletes and football players with the lowest average IQ, at 97.1 and 93.3 respectively. The Big East had the students with the lowest IQ, averaging 102.7. Conference-USA and the Western Athletic Conference (WAC) are not included in that ranking as only one school was represented from each.

http://jesuswarehouse.com/2009/01/football-iq/