Woodbine Suspends Turbo Charged Pick 6 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 02:33 PM

They lost around $420,000 on it in three weeks. And now more people than ever are aware of Woodbine's huge track takeouts.

TORONTO, July 8 - Woodbine Entertainment Group (WEG) is suspending its Turbo-charged Pick 6 wager promotion...for now.

"We're putting the Turbo-charged aspect of the Pick 6 wager on hold, but are considering bringing it back for special events or something more regular later in the season," said Sean Pinsonneault, WEG's Vice-President of Wagering Services.

The Turbo-charged Pick 6, a bet in which horseplayers are asked to select the winners of six consecutive races, was offered over three straight Sundays, beginning on June 21, the day of the 150th edition of the Queen's Plate.

As promotion for the Turbo-charged Pick 6, WEG added $150,000 to the carryover. If the Pick 6 was won, the pool was re-seeded with another $150,000 for the following week.

"We wanted to promote our Pick 6 wager and felt seeding the pool with $150,000 would raise eyebrows, and it sure did," continued Pinsonneault. "It created the buzz we were looking for and encouraged racing fans and horsemen that weren't already familiar with the Woodbine Thoroughbred product to experience our racing with consistently large fields and one of the largest purse structures in North American racing."

The Turbo-charged Pick 6 was paid out on each Sunday the added $150,000 was offered.

On the first afternoon (June 21) of the bet, one fan, from the United States, collected $203,499.40. On June 28, another American hit it for $153,884.20. On July 5, four happy fans, three from Canada and another from the U.S., had the Pick 6 for $46,982.90 each.

"It would have been nice to see it carryover a few days from our perspective but clearly some pretty savvy players were able to walk away with some significant jackpots," said Pinsonneault, "and that's ultimately what we were trying to create. We're happy for those that cashed tickets on the Turbo-charged Pick 6."

A $2 Pick 6 wager will remain on the Woodbine betting menu every Sunday without the seeded carryover beginning July 12 and continue to cover the final six races on the Thoroughbred card.

Woodbine racing is available Wednesdays at 6:45 p.m. and Thursday through Sundays at 1 p.m. until December 6.

Watcher · 07-08-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangamble

On June 28, another American hit it for $153,884.20.

What's the takeout on this promotion? Seems like little was bet if this was the payoff after a re-seed of $150k?

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watcher

What's the takeout on this promotion? Seems like little was bet if this was the payoff after a re-seed of $150k?

25%.

They averaged around 75,000 in new money a week.

But if you do the math, and assume half came from outlets that bought Woodbine's signal, and you take the horsemen into consideration, the bottom line is that they wound up with around 9k a week, and maybe not even that.

turfnsport · 07-08-2009, 02:47 PM

Instead of suspending the wager, why didn't they think to just raise the takeout?

rrbauer · 07-08-2009, 03:40 PM

It speaks to the lack of understanding that Woodbine management has concerning the game and the game's customers. They were creating a pool that was primarily made up of "found money". If they wanted to get carryovers going they should've added like $10K every day that it wasn't hit until the pool reached $100K. Then the growth of the pool and the players who left money in previous days plus new players coming in would give them the carryover fever that they were looking for. Instead they created an overnight bonanza and the players picked their pocket. I'd like to know the ticket sizes of the winning plays.

macguy · 07-08-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrbauer

It speaks to the lack of understanding that Woodbine management has concerning the game and the game's customers. They were creating a pool that was primarily made up of "found money". If they wanted to get carryovers going they should've added like $10K every day that it wasn't hit until the pool reached $100K. Then the growth of the pool and the players who left money in previous days plus new players coming in would give them the carryover fever that they were looking for. Instead they created an overnight bonanza and the players picked their pocket. I'd like to know the ticket sizes of the winning plays.

See here:

Quote:

On the first afternoon (June 21) of the bet, one fan, from the United States, collected $203,499.40. On June 28, another American hit it for $153,884.20. On July 5, four happy fans, three from Canada and another from the U.S., had the Pick 6 for $46,982.90 each.

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrbauer

It speaks to the lack of understanding that Woodbine management has concerning the game and the game's customers. They were creating a pool that was primarily made up of "found money". If they wanted to get carryovers going they should've added like $10K every day that it wasn't hit until the pool reached $100K. Then the growth of the pool and the players who left money in previous days plus new players coming in would give them the carryover fever that they were looking for. Instead they created an overnight bonanza and the players picked their pocket. I'd like to know the ticket sizes of the winning plays.

The first ticket was hit by someone who bet 5 G's, the second one was scooped up by someone who bet just over $500. Not sure about the 4 winners last week.

rrbauer · 07-08-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangamble

The first ticket was hit by someone who bet 5 G's, the second one was scooped up by someone who bet just over $500. Not sure about the 4 winners last week.

Maybe you know the players and can vouch for the amounts, however what happens often is that we hear about the size of the ticket that held the winning combination and not the size of the play that the winning ticket was part of.
The latter situation is very difficult to find out unless you know the principals
involved.

Most serious P6 players play many different tickets that are put together under the mantra that "all of the horses don't have the same chance of winning". Ergo, horses with the greatest chances of winning (according to the player's assesment) will find their way on to the most number of combinations/tickets. This is not to say that there aren't still players who will put in a single large ticket that does not differentiate the chances of winning of the horses being used and that might be the case with the $5K ticket.

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 05:11 PM

I heard WEG broadcasters on Saturday or Sunday divulge the info.
In fact, it verifies this article about the $500 ticket:
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog...harged-pick-6/

InsideThePylons-MW · 07-08-2009, 05:54 PM

Once again, the racetracks go way above the call of duty to help the horseplayer and the horseplayer gives them the finger!

rrbauer · 07-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangamble

I heard WEG broadcasters on Saturday or Sunday divulge the info.
In fact, it verifies this article about the $500 ticket:
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog...harged-pick-6/

The fact that this ticket ended with two singles, makes me think that it was part of a larger play and that there were companion tickets that mixed the horses differently with an "end game" involving more than two singles. Again, only the winning ticket is made public and not the winning PLAY.

However, a lot of players go deep early in order to keep their play alive and then "gamble" in the end game. A contrarian strategy would limit the selections in the early game and then spread towards the end, the idea being that if you get there, you want to make sure you take down the prize.

I understand CG that you're simply reporting what is on the airwaves for public consumption....my point being that it may not be the whole story.

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Once again, the racetracks go way above the call of duty to help the horseplayer and the horseplayer gives them the finger!

Excuse me. They did this for themselves. This is the same organization that marks up takeouts from Churchill from 19% to 27%.
This brainchild of an idea was to try to suck more people into playing their 27% takeouts. Nothing but a bait and switch.

You really think they did this to help the player????? Maybe if it was Keeneland. But not an organization that goes out of its way to make sure Canadians are FORCED to play with them and their marked up takeouts.

Cangamble · 07-08-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrbauer

The fact that this ticket ended with two singles, makes me think that it was part of a larger play and that there were companion tickets that mixed the horses differently with an "end game" involving more than two singles. Again, only the winning ticket is made public and not the winning PLAY.

However, a lot of players go deep early in order to keep their play alive and then "gamble" in the end game. A contrarian strategy would limit the selections in the early game and then spread towards the end, the idea being that if you get there, you want to make sure you take down the prize.

I understand CG that you're simply reporting what is on the airwaves for public consumption....my point being that it may not be the whole story.

I spent $24 that day, and had the first five winners. The last four were chalk. I keyed three of them, and tried to beat the chalk in the last with two horses.
I think it was probably his only ticket.

InsideThePylons-MW · 07-08-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrbauer

However, a lot of players go deep early in order to keep their play alive and then "gamble" in the end game. A contrarian strategy would limit the selections in the early game and then spread towards the end, the idea being that if you get there, you want to make sure you take down the prize.

C'mon Richard....get your P-6 jargon updated

The funnel ticket and the Christmas tree ticket

InsideThePylons-MW · 07-08-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangamble

Excuse me. They did this for themselves. This is the same organization that marks up takeouts from Churchill from 19% to 27%.
This brainchild of an idea was to try to suck more people into playing their 27% takeouts. Nothing but a bait and switch.

You really think they did this to help the player????? Maybe if it was Keeneland. But not an organization that goes out of its way to make sure Canadians are FORCED to play with them and their marked up takeouts.

C'mon CG...put your sense of humor hat on.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...598#post708598