Credit Card Reform

[Overlay]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30829066/

I see at the above link that, in order to "punish" credit-card issuers for the penalty fees and interest charges that they have collected from people who often should not have been extended credit in the first place, Congress has placed limits on those fees and rates. As a result, "good" customers who have consistently paid their credit-card bills in full and on time will find themselves with annual fees for cards that used to be free; interest charges on purchases from the moment the transaction registers, with no grace period until the end of the monthly billing cycle; and fewer (or no) cash-back or rewards programs for credit-card use. And, once again, the government has reprieved people from learning the basic life lesson that actions have consequences, while doing it at the expense of those who "played by the rules" all along.

Coincidentally or not, I was listening to a speech today by Michael Steele, the new chairman of the Republican National Committee, in which he cited the following quote (from 1942) by William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian minister and public speaker. (The quotation was used more recently by Ronald Reagan in his address to the 1992 Republican convention.)

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

I think I'm going to paste those words in a prominent place in our home where I can read them at the start of every day.

[ArlJim78]

Yes we can bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
Yes we can strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
Yes we can help little men by tearing down big men.
Yes we can lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
Yes we can help the poor by destroying the rich.
Yes we can establish sound security on borrowed money.
Yes we can further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
Yes we can keep out of trouble by spending more than we earn.
Yes we can build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
And yes we can help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

with only minor editting it becomes an Obama campaign speech.

[chickenhead]

I don't like it -- but it's also obvious that a very large portion of population can't seem to handle having credit cards. It's like giving alcohol and guns to little children. (Which is only ok on holidays and special occasions.)

[Overlay]

Minor correction: The quote dates back to 1916. 1942 was the year in which it was erroneously attributed to Abraham Lincoln.

[kenwoodallpromos]

if people should do for themselves, what are business subsidies and what is a "LLC" in a company name?

[The Judge]

jump all over the credit card industry if all they were doing was collecting fees from those who were late paying? Its because thats not what the credit card companies were doing. They were making up fees and penalties as soon as you got use to one set of rules they instituted another. They were collecting "special fees" from 35% of their customers.

Here is what is being proposed its seems reasonable even modest to me. Its mainly about giving the customer information they can read and understand. They aren't punishing the innocent as far as they are concern there are no innocent only lambs to be fleeced. So they are fleecing the lambs while they still can, they use reform as an excuse to gouge everyone for old time sakes that means me and you. http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/co...es/004292.html

[acorn54]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I don't like it -- but it's also obvious that a very large portion of population can't seem to handle having credit cards. It's like giving alcohol and guns to little children. (Which is only ok on holidays and special occasions.)

my personal obsevations about people today is that they are short sighted and have to be treated like children because they act like children, hence government has to step in and take care of them.

[Tom]

Some practices by the C companies were outright unacceptable and needed to be regulated. As long were are nationalizing everything, though, let's just declare all CC balances to be zero and see how that stimulates the economy! Woo Hoo!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by acorn54

my personal obsevations about people today is that they are short sighted and have to be treated like children because they act like children, hence government has to step in and take care of them.

And have your "personal obsevations" (sic) also told you that you people (including yourself) can't think for themselves and, therefore, need the state to do it for them? And have your "personal obsevations" (sic) also told you that you can't spell a lick and that the state really needs to help you out in this area, too?

Boxcar

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I don't like it -- but it's also obvious that a very large portion of population can't seem to handle having credit cards.

Bingo except I'd leave out the word "cards". Many people cannot handle credit----period. The card companies have every right, IMO, to raise rates on those with lousy credit. Why should the rest of us be penalized. We are living in a damned blameless society....just listen to the ads, whether its for people who've been foreclosed and gotten into financial trouble, or overweight people who can't say no, the message is "its not your fault". Ah, yes it is.

[acorn54]

i am an accountant by training and i am very careful with my expenses. however at a local supermarket that i now work at i had a conversation with the deli clerk who said he was glad the supermarket now has direct deposit for our paychecks. he said it is better for him since now he can't get his hands on his paycheck money because he spends it all when he use to get it at the supermarket payroll counter.
i never realized some people really have a hard time handling money. it seems like some sort of disease like compulsive gambling.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Bingo except I'd leave out the word "cards". Many people cannot handle credit----period. The card companies have every right, IMO, to raise rates on those with lousy credit. Why should the rest of us be penalized. We are living in a damned blameless society....just listen to the ads, whether its for people who've been foreclosed and gotten into financial trouble, or overweight people who can't say no, the message is "its not your fault". Ah, yes it is.

Years ago I carried a balance , I don't anymore . My house is paid for , that wasn't the case at one time . Now its time to sacrifice so others can do the same . Its simply the on-going pattern . In a socialist state , everyone is thrown into the same melting pot . This administration is determained to release the wrecking ball . Whatever you've worked for , regardless of your education , if you haven't yet made it for yourself and secure with your future , throw it out the window because its not going to matter much longer . The longer this " milking of America " goes on the less I like this POS of a president . I'm not quite there yet but close , as you can see I didn't spell it out .

[jballscalls]

credit is a tough deal. Everything is so expensive now, cost of living, vehicles, power/gas etc, somebody on a teachers salary 30/40k instead of being middle class is downright poor.

its pretty easy to see how people are reliant upon their credit cards. I have friends that are buried, because it was either use the credit cards to pay the rent while they were looking for work after being laid off, or go homeless. it's a tough scenario.

[chickenhead]

the debate about these issues like how much interest is too much has been going on since long before Jesus' time, and it'll be going on as long as humans beings are around -- as they'll always be trying to bum money from each other and getting into trouble. There is an ebb and flow to these things, so getting too bent over minor changes here and there seems like a waste of time.

And I wouldn't let the banks of the hook either. There is a ton of money made on transactional volume -- that used to be all there was. It is a very very profitable bizness, without any lending whatsoever. They decided to go ahead and forward huge lines of unsecured credit to pretty much anyone, and everyone blows themselves up, normal people and the banks. I guess my point is, there is not some rule of the universe that everyone needs to have $50K in unsecured credit lines. That's not some American right, or the "way things have always been". It's a brand new experiment, and it's gone pretty horribly awry imo.

I'd say the fact people have such a hard time handling credit -- is the perfect evidence at how new of an experiment it is -- never in the history of man was it so easy to blow oneself up financially. So I'd say the outlier, the "new experiment", is not taking a step back to the olden times -- the outlier is where we just were. We're taking a step back to normalcy.

[acorn54]

a week or so ago i read a little bit in a new book about human nature and how human's handle money. basically it said that human's think short term by nature and don't fully realize the consequences of their financial actions. so it seems the experiment of giving people credit was a bad idea assuming the author is correct.