Something wrong with SBSW?? - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Sea Biscuit · 09-10-2008, 01:46 PM

On a day when Lost Bliss (race 1 Sept 6 at Mohawk) raced off the pace from a 1/2 of 55 and 3/4 of 123 to a final time of 150.2 in NW 13000 L6 just 1 tick less than SBSW and after reading Randall Waples, one of Mohawk's top drivers, statement on a different forum, I tend to believe something is definitely wrong with this horse.

This is what Randall Waples had to say and I Quote:

"Opinion..#1 maybe someone forgot to ask the horse if he was sick or maybe he just didn't want to tell anyone..you know the show must go on..sometimes the horse has to show a bad race to tell if he needs to be scoped hence finding him full of mucous..sometimes they eat fine,and train fine and run no temp. and the blood is fine and they warm up sharp then race flat crawling to the wire..scope to find out the reason why?? and they find a horses wind pipe all but closed down because he's congested with mucous...but he wins anyway

#2..believe it or not but most horses who scope bad pull al lot harder in a race because they are probably only getting part of their air and I feel they panic and instead of rating a mile they'll take the bit refuse to relax(panic) and go all out till they tire..it probably sounds like a fairy tale to you but if I had a dollar for everytime that a trainer has told me a potential winner has warmned up super sharp and they could barely hold them in the warmup only to go out and score down an unmanageable horse then when in the race, have the horse unwilling to relax and then find out later that they scoped full..I wouldn't have to work again...if anyone was also at Mohawk last night didn't you also notice Paul jogging SBSW rather fast in the score down last night??..I smelled something bad was up then..then watching him leave a quarter in 25.4 off the rail ...thats like a quarter in 24 flat from the middle of the gate ( theres a reason no one picks the rail in stake finals because its a tough position to leave out of)..it looks to me that Paul was a passenger last night to the 3/4's..and on vapours the last quarter..I'm not making excuses for a horse who has only lost once in his life in probably the greatest mile any of us has seen and still won faster last night than any other race went..he doesn't need me to.... just stating facts and observations. .rock on Beach

Thanks I thought they were legitimate questions that I thought I could help with...one more thing has any horse ever won a race in 50 and change and ever looked so poor in doing it???..I mean what does the time of 1.50 mean to this horse?? I know what it means to Deuce and Mohegan Pan and Badlands Nitro and Santanna and Horatio it means all out but what does it say about a horse who wins in 50 and looks like shit??.. "

Any opinions?

Sinner369 · 09-10-2008, 05:57 PM

Don't know about sickness or injury...........but wasn't the 3/4M of 120.3 the fastest in Mohawk history?.............Could that have taken something out of the
horse?

botster · 09-11-2008, 01:45 AM

I have heard this excuse for a poor performance of a horse after a race about 500 thousand times.In this case however, I believe it to be 100% accurate.This is a superhorse, and only superhorses overcome such perils on, and off the racetrack.Lets all remember this was not a warm night and Mohawk has a deeper surface do to the poor draining of the track.

The teletimer saw the fastest 3/4 mile time in the its history, and if he wasn't sick he would have came home in 28,and the track record would have been history.

Randy Waples was so right when he commented that SBSW's defeat in the M1 pace was the greatest race he ever witnessed.That defeat MUST put this horse into the SUPER category, and for that reason I believe he did race sick that evening.

I have a feeling we are going to see one unbelievable time trial from this horse.Lets all remember CAMBESTS trial was a joke with Freddy Grant being exposed with the shake.

Sea Biscuit · 09-11-2008, 02:11 AM

Hey Bots: Agree with you 100%. I just hope the horse gets over his ailment before his next race which i am not sure when that will be.

Your posts are always appreciated at PA and please do post more often.

LottaKash · 09-11-2008, 04:16 AM

Hey Guys, I agree that SBSW is one helluva Champ.....One of the best I have ever seen........

But to reiterate something that I had mentioned in previous post, is that in his last start at Flamboro, his last part of the mile was incredible (pip-wise), as his adjusted 3/4 split was converted to 1.21 a phenomenal 3/4 time for any 1/2-miler......and his final time converted to 1.47........with a 26.3 last 1/4 for good measure.......I suspect more than being sick he was a llttle sore after that Blast of speed at Flamboro, going that fast on those sharp corners will test any horse including the very best ones.......I think if SBSW could have talked last Sat. he would've told Macdonell, "Ouch Boss that hurts a little"........Just shows you what a Champ he really is, to be sore and still post a 1.20 split speaks volumes on the greatness of this horse, but that slow 30-sec last 1/4 is a sure sign of a mini-bounce.....I believe he will be back to top form very soon, as all the great ones have this toughness about them.......

Looking at it from a pip perspective.......let me say this.....his adjusted pip from flamboro, was 6317......if you notice that there was a change of -3 then a -2 and then a -4 in his splits....Not many horses can make those three changes and live to tell about it......not many......a -4 from any horse will (class dependent) usually knock him off form......(bounce)

Well that is my take on this situation...

best,

Overcall · 09-11-2008, 08:01 PM

SBSW is eligible to the Blue Grass and the Tattersall. Bet he retires after those.

TimesTheyRAChangin · 09-11-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcall

SBSW is eligible to the Blue Grass and the Tattersall. Bet he retires after those.

That would be a crying shame.
I'd love to see him race as a 4 year old,and take on Auckland Reactor once he gets used to North American racing.

Ray2000 · 09-12-2008, 07:05 AM

Elevated white blood cell count, was definitely sick

If they go the "Time Trial" way, they better put a driver up who can rate a 26-27-27-26- mile?

or what would be the best fractions?

Do they still use 2 thorobreds who aren't allowed to head SBSW?

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=66949

Sea Biscuit · 09-12-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray2000

Elevated white blood cell count, was definitely sick

If they go the "Time Trial" way, they better put a driver up who can rate a 26-27-27-26- mile?

or what would be the best fractions?

Do they still use 2 thorobreds who aren't allowed to head SBSW?

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=66949

Cambest's fractions in his time trial on August 14, 1993 were:

26.1 51.4 119 146.1

26.1 25.3 27.1 27.1

You can watch it here and the poor prompter was not even in the picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GYAOBYdJ_w

Sea Biscuit · 09-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Should be a piece of cake for SBSW at the Red Mile a lightening fast track!!!

If he is fit and fine that is.

MutuelClerk · 09-12-2008, 01:32 PM

I'm hoping Art Official wins the Jug. and then heads down to Lexington and kicks SBSW ass in the Tattersall.

Overcall · 09-12-2008, 03:09 PM

Whooops..... I forgot, he's probably eligible to the Breeders Crown at M, late November.

Postime · 09-12-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MutuelClerk

I'm hoping Art Official wins the Jug. and then heads down to Lexington and kicks SBSW ass in the Tattersall.

Not sure I would put in those terms, but he is being called great without taking on the best in his age group. Harness racing could have had a great summer and Fall with national exposure,but the owners chose to hide there horse's form each other.
The decision not to race SBSW in the Jug is a direct slap in the face of Harness racing fans. May the owners of SBSW ride there horse for everything he's worth,but don't call him great around me.

Sea Biscuit · 09-12-2008, 04:56 PM

Hey Postime: SBSW is a great horse make no mistake about it. I care not if he does not race in the Jug.

Anytime a horse wins 15 times and places only once in 16 starts has to be great.

The Meadowlands Pace was probably the greatest race I have ever witnessed.

LottaKash · 09-12-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postime

Not sure I would put in those terms, but he is being called great without taking on the best in his age group. Harness racing could have had a great summer and Fall with national exposure,but the owners chose to hide there horse's form each other.
The decision not to race SBSW in the Jug is a direct slap in the face of Harness racing fans. May the owners of SBSW ride there horse for everything he's worth,but don't call him great around me.

Hey Postime, I agree whoeheartedly with you.....I can't get over the SBSW connections not wanting to race in the most Prestigious race (other than the Meadowlands) of the year for 3yo Pacers....."The Jug".....

Add to that, this year in particular, except for two or three others, the 3yo crop was one of the most ordinary in recent memory.........

Take heart Folks there have been some fast 2yo's coming...........

Shame on you SBSW..........

best,