Woodbine Is Really Going Down The Toilet

[Cangamble]

If it wasn't for slots, the racing execs there would be lining up for jobs at McDonalds.

Here is what I wrote on Jen Morrison's Blog this morning:

A $40,000 carryover going into last night. Very little betting competition, and they could only add another $15,000 (before payouts and takeout)????
Woodbine only did $1.3 million in handle last night. Less than $2 million on Sunday.
Something is broken.
When a government wants to stimulate the economy what do they do? They lower interest rates in most cases.
Seems Woodbine has sucked their non growing fan base dry and they are unable to attract new bettors because it is impossible for people to win because of extraordinarily high takeouts. No winners equals no buzz.

******************************************
Today they did just under 1.4 million in handle, and they added another $7,000 to the Pick 7 Pool for tomorrow(probably meaning that only around 12,000 was bet today on it).

A $50,000 carryover at Santa Anita would generate probably an additional $100,000 or $150k added to the pool (I'm guessing).

Fort Erie did over $1 million in handle for Monday and Tuesday and there is an allowance race at Woodbine on Saturday that is almost equal to what Fort Erie purses pay out in a day.

[46zilzal]

A lot of us aren't going anywhere with a track that one can figure out...
Both Ontario tracks are a pleasure to play...

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

A lot of us aren't going anywhere with a track that one can figure out...
Both Ontario tracks are a pleasure to play...

are you trying to say. please enlighten this poorly educated person.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

are you trying to say. please enlighten this poorly educated person.

That is what I'd like to know too. Great racing is racing that no one wants to bet on?

[maxwell]

Why would anyone waste their time trying to win a so-called Super 7 for peanuts when they can bet into SoCal's Pick Six?

WO used to have the odd decent S7 pool ( 500K ) but they have totally ruined the wager.

Last week's SoCal P6 :

87k
400k
1.2 m
3.9 m ... in four days!

Super tough to hit for a big score but damn worth the effort.

[onefast99]

I wish every racetrack treated owners like they treated us on June 11th when we shipped in for a stakes race there. What a pleasure to have edible food, great service and a top class facility. As far as the takeouts go that may be an issue they probably need to focus in on a little bit more especially when the addition to the pool is that weak!

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I wish every racetrack treated owners like they treated us on June 11th when we shipped in for a stakes race there. What a pleasure to have edible food, great service and a top class facility. As far as the takeouts go that may be an issue they probably need to focus in on a little bit more especially when the addition to the pool is that weak!

The problem is that Woodbine has always catered to the owners, and mostly the high profile owners first, and almost exclusively.
Now they do cater to high profile trainers too, something that has evolved over the last 30 years bit by bit.
From the days of EP Taylor, Jack Stafford, Conn Smythe to the Willmots, the Samuels, the Hindmarshes, etc.
It has a tradition of catering to the monocle/top hat crowd.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

are you trying to say. please enlighten this poorly educated person.

I like Ontario tracks, I do well there and see no reason not to continue to place wagers there.

[parlay]

WO is my home turf. I have spent more time there
than with my wife of 29 years. I am and always will
consider myself a horseplayer, but
I have pulled back the time/money i devote to
horseracing by 75% and WO is almost off my radar.
Yes the facility is excellent and i am occasionly overcome
by nostalgia and make the trip out to the track.
The racing surface was the final straw for me and
any attention i do pay is to the Turf racing.
Poker has become the focus of my dollars/time.
I can play from anywhere, anytime. I can risk the
same dollars and get into great tournaments with
LARGE payouts. I play tournaments exclusively.
Yes is enjoy poker, but i love racing. I am greatly
disappointed in the industry, they have made it
impossible for a junky like me to continue with
my passion. I have 2 sons in there 20's, neither
of which goes to the track. They both play poker
online. We share that interest and enjoy discussing
and playing. I used to look forward to passing my
handicapping knowledge on to them, explaining
breeding and spending a day running from the paddock to the post parade.
I made a decision years ago not to involve them in
a dieing game. It pains me greatly, but i am not
in control of the direction this industry is going.
I am a mature adult and i realise that everything
changes and nothing is forever.
I hoped that racing was.As the opening of
Saratoga draws closer i wonder if this will be yet
another year of decline in this once CLASSIC meet.
I have thought about taking the boys before this
experience disappears completely, but i just can't
muster the enthusiasm. How sad!
Michael Gotkin
Life long horseplayer

[MONEY]

Originally Posted by parlay

Poker has become the focus of my dollars/time.

That is exactly what the Racinos want you to do. Forget the horse racing, play poker and pull on those slots. The race tracks & local governments don't make enough money on racing. They would love for the public to lose all interest, so that they can tear down the tracks and build hotels, shopping malls, casinos and high priced condos.

Money

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by MONEY

That is exactly what the Racinos want you to do. Forget the horse racing, play poker and pull on those slots. The race tracks & local governments don't make enough money on racing. They would love for the public to lose all interest, so that they can tear down the tracks and build hotels, shopping malls, casinos and high priced condos.

Money

In Ontario, racetracks don't have poker....yet. Poker at casinos like Niagara Falls do not make the government much money at all. Too labour intensive. You need more security for table games, especially black jack.
Horse players are not slot players, that is where the government make their biggest score.
A Racino would probably want a player to lose at horses over slots. The track only gets 10% of the profits from slots, while they get around 8-10% of what is bet on horses.
In theory if someone goes to the racino and blows $100. If he blows it on slots the track only makes $10, if he blows it on horse racing the track makes $40-45 after the horsemen and government get their cut. In Ontario, the government only gets 1.3% per bet btw. Of course, horse racing is way more labour intensive. Tracks pay little for the slots (I think the OLG pays almost all the expenses, not the track).
But once the player arrives at the racino, the track would rather have him or her bet on horses.

[MONEY]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

A Racino would probably want a player to lose at horses over slots. The track only gets 10% of the profits from slots, while they get around 8-10% of what is bet on horses.

It is a lot easier to attract slot players than horse bettors. So while the tracks may be making a smaller percentage from the slots the total profits are much higher than the money that they make from horse racing.

Money

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by MONEY

It is a lot easier to attract slot players than horse bettors. So while the tracks may be making a smaller percentage from the slots the total profits are much higher than the money that they make from horse racing.

Money

I acknowledge that, plus slots are open close to 24/7. In Fort Erie, the horsemen who get 10% of slot profits as well, get around half their purse money from slots and the other half from betting.
But still, if a slot player could be swayed to change his or her mind once at the track to bet horses instead, the track would do better on that individual.

[thruncy]

Every wooden racetrack in Chicago--Arlington, Washington, & Hawthorne-- has burned down. New Orleans Fairgrounds was allowed to burn down with employees complaining about natural gas leaks all over the building months before the fire....Think these people are upstanding, forthright citizens? They use fronts & diversionary tactics to mask their greed. Duch-bag capitalized on the Viet Nam war. Krantz got really carried away after the fire & got caught cheating the horsemen for which the State of Louisiana divested him of his racetrack. Doesn't anybody pay attention? These people prey on what they perceive as addiction...exactly the same as drug dealers. The only way to deal with their antics is to remove the demand or control it with an inscrutable commission. Ah, but the profit motive is the thing here. And tampering with that would spark the usual outcries about government control. So let us just let horseracing languish in and die a natural death in their "30 Tons...." Another Krantz run racetrack--Jefferson Downs--dumped their "30 Tons" in the infield. And they still came!...in droves at first. *Bill Veeck's book about owning Suffolk Downs

[Zman179]

Pick 7? Too damn hard to do. I could care less if the carryover is $4 million, I won't put a dime into a bet in which I have no shot to win. It appears that quite a few others may feel the same way.