New here

[Nacumi]

Hi all,
I'm new to the board, and a thoroughbred breeder/owner in PA. We have a small string of homebreds stabled with our trainers on the farm. Our focus is primarily "long on the lawn", though we've had some success on the dirt, too. We race from NY to VA.
I look forward to talking with all of you about the business and our industry.

[Tom]

Welcome....looking forward to your thoughts on the game.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Nacumi

Hi all,
I'm new to the board, and a thoroughbred breeder/owner in PA. We have a small string of homebreds stabled with our trainers on the farm. Our focus is primarily "long on the lawn", though we've had some success on the dirt, too. We race from NY to VA.
I look forward to talking with all of you about the business and our industry.

Why don't they ever try long on the dirt? All the stamina any longer is on the green. Keep that up and no one will know where dirt stamina sires are located.

[Nacumi]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Why don't they ever try long on the dirt? All the stamina any longer is on the green. Keep that up and no one will know where dirt stamina sires are located.

They can all go long on the dirt, too, just not as fast. We've had most of our maiden breakers on the dirt. Our theory was based on pedigrees, penchants, strides and training regimen. We can work ours over thousands acres of hilly grass gallops (track trainers can't), so it's our only real advantage shipping in to race.
Our next challenge will be seeing whether they can handle going long on the TapetaPolyCushion. Being race fit for the turf sometimes doesn't translate on deeper, softer surfaces.

[boomman]

Welcome to the board Nacumi! The pace advantage members are really becoming proactive in bettering the sport (see our petition) and we look forward to your prospective and hopefully your support from a horsemen's view...

Boomer

[DanG]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Why don't they ever try long on the dirt? All the stamina any longer is on the green. Keep that up and no one will know where dirt stamina sires are located.

That is 46’s way of welcoming you aboard in his unique & charmimg style.

Welcome!

PS: Here’s hoping some of your turf stock can take advantage of the new Tapeta course at Presque Isle Downs.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by DanG

That is 46’s way of welcoming you aboard in his unique & charmimg style.

If the fellow came to this board, where we discuss all manner of horse racing, then a question regarding his opening statement is par for the course.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Nacumi

Our next challenge will be seeing whether they can handle going long on the TapetaPolyCushion. Being race fit for the turf sometimes doesn't translate on deeper, softer surfaces.

Of those three, I hear the "scuttlebutt" that Tapeta is the best. What has been your experience???

[Dave Schwartz]

Nacumi,

Welcome. Hope you enjoy yourself here.



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Nacumi]

Hi Boon,
Your petition is what got me reading this forum. It's an awful conundrum that the "business" has become, now made more complicated because of signals being held for ransom and fans getting the short shrift. I would offer one additional comment: without the owners (manufacturing) retaining skin in the game, none of the other businesses would exist, pure and simple. We create the content from which selling agencies, venue operators, trainers, jockeys, vets, backside workers, TV distribution and wagering platforms all make their money, their "vig." If we stop breeding to race, it all goes away.

What chaps my hide is that the big time breeding and racing businesses (unlike the small time folks like us who breed our own stock to race) are COMPLETELY disconnected now. It's what has led to early retirements for lucrative stud deals. Pay too much for a yearling, flip it to some other eager buyer, race it into the ground and retire it to stud at 3, having made all your money on the early transactions, instead of investing in the horse recovering or staying in training for a longer racing career. Lather, rinse, repeat.
One solution might be to stop incenting owners who buy overpriced 2yos. to run in zillion dollar races before their stock's fully grown. In other words, stop the hyped overpaying first. The only way right now to recover your ROI is to push too fast, too soon. The 2yo. in training sales are a bizarre practice. How does running a single furlong under tack foretell the ability to run a route later that fall, or the following spring? Why do people buy into that hooey? Here's a wild idea: how about incenting at the other end instead, building up the pay scale up for handicap and distance horses? How about writing races so that a stallion actually has to be 5 or older to have its get compete? You'd certainly halt the early retirement rut in which we seem to be with our superstars these days, in addition to the problem of stallions with later maturing babies getting "unfashionable" (by current industry standards) quickly. In every other business, you're supposed to earn more as you get older and more experienced, aren't you? The cry for stamina and router influences will continue to go unheard if the industry demands and only pays for speed, speed, speed and sprinting sires for precocious two year olds. When did thoroughbreds become quarterhorses? Did I miss a memo?

There is nothing more intoxicating than the winner's circle: to have it be with a horse you raised from birth is extraordinary. Just getting a homebred to the races is an accomplishment in and of itself, given how many others don't ever get there. I think a lot of the "mercenaries" in our industry have lost touch with that old-fashioned "sportsmen" mentality, leaving it to the starry-eyed dreamers like us.
Ah well. Just my opinion; I could be wrong. For my next rant, I'd like to discuss rampant drug abuse, steroids and out of competition testing.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Nacumi

The cry for stamina and router influences will continue to go unheard if the industry demands and only pays for speed, speed, speed and sprinting sires for precocious two year olds. When did thoroughbreds become quarterhorses? Did I miss a memo?

Here…here brother.

Excellent post!

[46zilzal]

If someone or some group does not take up the call to bring back stamina, the breed will be lost. I have been harping on this since I had a letter to the editor published in Unbridled's Derby edition of the Bloodhorse. Many industry people recognize that stamina is eroding, but DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

There are only a handful of 10 furlong races left (mostly three year old contests) and a single 12. All the true tests, like the Jockey Club Gold Cup and old Sunset Hdcp, the Display and many others are just footnotes in old American Racing Manuals.

If there is yin without yang the continuity is lost.

Also I am of the strong belief that two year olds should be limited to 6 starts maximum as babies, maybe even 5 and only after June 15th.

[46zilzal]

Stamina has been an age related phenomenon. Many a three year old cannot compete longer until there is enough bottom to learn to apportion their speed over a long trip. Chief's Crown and Holy Bull come to mind as they won the Traver's after failing at classic distances earlier. These colts were at the top of the game whereas many lesser ones take longer to attain that ability.

Look at stamina sports in humans. I recall that most long distance skiers, the world class ones, are all in their 30's. Most long distance runners in marathons fall into that same age range.

Someone, some where is going to have to clang the bell and remind all who participate as to what the thoroughbred was traditionally bred to do: run and run at distances. I am a speed handicapper, but I realize that speed without a dose of stamina is a dead end proposition. Fragile legs, faint lungs, shorter racing life...it all goes together to inhibit, not promote the game.

[Horsefan]

Welcome to the board Nacumi

[boomman]

Originally Posted by Nacumi

Hi Boon,
Your petition is what got me reading this forum. It's an awful conundrum that the "business" has become, now made more complicated because of signals being held for ransom and fans getting the short shrift. I would offer one additional comment: without the owners (manufacturing) retaining skin in the game, none of the other businesses would exist, pure and simple. We create the content from which selling agencies, venue operators, trainers, jockeys, vets, backside workers, TV distribution and wagering platforms all make their money, their "vig." If we stop breeding to race, it all goes away.

What chaps my hide is that the big time breeding and racing businesses (unlike the small time folks like us who breed our own stock to race) are COMPLETELY disconnected now. It's what has led to early retirements for lucrative stud deals. Pay too much for a yearling, flip it to some other eager buyer, race it into the ground and retire it to stud at 3, having made all your money on the early transactions, instead of investing in the horse recovering or staying in training for a longer racing career. Lather, rinse, repeat.
One solution might be to stop incenting owners who buy overpriced 2yos. to run in zillion dollar races before their stock's fully grown. In other words, stop the hyped overpaying first. The only way right now to recover your ROI is to push too fast, too soon. The 2yo. in training sales are a bizarre practice. How does running a single furlong under tack foretell the ability to run a route later that fall, or the following spring? Why do people buy into that hooey? Here's a wild idea: how about incenting at the other end instead, building up the pay scale up for handicap and distance horses? How about writing races so that a stallion actually has to be 5 or older to have its get compete? You'd certainly halt the early retirement rut in which we seem to be with our superstars these days, in addition to the problem of stallions with later maturing babies getting "unfashionable" (by current industry standards) quickly. In every other business, you're supposed to earn more as you get older and more experienced, aren't you? The cry for stamina and router influences will continue to go unheard if the industry demands and only pays for speed, speed, speed and sprinting sires for precocious two year olds. When did thoroughbreds become quarterhorses? Did I miss a memo?

There is nothing more intoxicating than the winner's circle: to have it be with a horse you raised from birth is extraordinary. Just getting a homebred to the races is an accomplishment in and of itself, given how many others don't ever get there. I think a lot of the "mercenaries" in our industry have lost touch with that old-fashioned "sportsmen" mentality, leaving it to the starry-eyed dreamers like us.
Ah well. Just my opinion; I could be wrong. For my next rant, I'd like to discuss rampant drug abuse, steroids and out of competition testing.

Nacumi: You have come to the right place! Your comments are right on the button and we frequently discuss the issues at the bottom of your thread, so fire away!

Boomer