An old method [ POPS & TIPS ]

[John]

Hi Guys,

I just came across a 1980 method called POPS & TIPS by TOM WORTH. This copy is pretty faded but as far as I can understand POPS Stands for [ profitable odds patterns ] past odds in the past performances.TIPS are tipoffs by the connections such as workouts and jockey changes,claims ,recency. etc. The examples shown in the workout show great prices. I would like to do some research on this and would like to ask if anyone has ever heard or came across this.Also how it worked for He or She. Tom Worth I think has passed on So I can't ask him. Any information on the above will be appreciated.............Thanks

[andicap]

I've heard of it, but never known anyone who's used it. From what I know it's a bit of work figuring it out every race.
Had decent rep as far as those things go.
One of those things that went out of style and because of that is worth looking into? Or piece of junk?
Good luck on research.

andicap

[BMeadow]

Pops And Tips is a collection of angles. In many races, many of the entrants show a number of these angles--so, as usual, you still have to handicap.

Tom Worth's business is now run by his son, John Farnsworth. Address is PO Box 7054, Warwick, RI 02887. Last listed phone I have is 401 732-2139.

[John]

Thanks Andicap and Barry

I am amazed at the 40 or so tips [ angles ] to look for. ] Mr. Worth said to find 5 0r 6 of them and if their is a pop[ Odds ] it is a play . What amazes me is He never mention pace or speed and still picks winners, Good prices. I guess what the Author intended is to make think like a trainer and point out trainer intention. I wonder if Mr. Worth's son ever programmed this for a computer. I will have to call some time and ask Him. He must have E-mail or a web site.........

[Dick Schmidt]

Somewhere in the Vast Morass I too have a copy of Pops and Tips, though I haven't thought of them for years. The first handicapping program I ever was part of was similar. I helped write it with Dick Mitchell. It showed a good ROI, but was agony to use. 40 minutes of data input per race! Of course we had no downloads back then. You should hope that no one has ever computerized this; then you can do it and use an approach that is being ignored right now.

Dick

[John]

Dick,

Your right, As I started to read this I knew it was old but yet it was like a breath of fresh air, No mention of speed rating or pace rating just old fashion angles. The one I love is " WUT " wound up tight. via races and workouts in a specified time. Makes a lot of sense to me.

A man in Massachusetts e-mailed me and said that he has been using Mr. Worth tips for ten years and has profited by them.He has tried to program. He said it is not the same and their will never be a computer program that will do the job. at least the way he does it with paper and pencil. He said that he has found a way to arainge the tips in a chronicle manner. He can now remember most of them.A compleat card at Belmont 4 hours. He and I are going to work with each other if any thing comes out of this I will post it.

[SAL]

I have an email address for Tom Worth Publishing Co., I don't know how current it is:

tipsreport@aol.com

As far as I know, they are still in business and publish material based on the angles mentioned above.

[Dick Schmidt]

Rocajack,

Good luck with the project. Two thoughts:

1 - Four hours per track is a LOT of work. That is about half an hour per race. It can certainly be done (I've done it for long periods of time) but I think that it sure takes a lot of the pleasure out of racing, not to mention limits the number of tracks you can play.

2 - Anything rule based can be programmed. Maybe the gent in MA can't do it, but it can be done. The advantages would be considerable; you could play multiple tracks and it would take the "sting" out of sitting down with a Racing Form and working for hours.

I've converted paper and pencil methods to computer several times, and it can be hard. You need to be very clear about how each rule is applied and note each exception. You can never do this the first time, or even the tenth. Be prepared to keep going back into the program to add exceptions and make changes. If you were talking about just another pace or speed program, I'd tell you that it isn't worth the time and effort, but here I think you have a chance to look at factors that almost everyone has forgotten about using.

Again, good luck. You'll need it, but the results should be worthwhile.

Dick

[John]

Thanks Sal , I will try to e-mail

[John]

Dick,

I will go with the paper and pencil. If I make a few buck and think I like it. I will need to find someone who would be willing to do a program.

Thanks for your good luck wishes..........

[Jake]

Ask John about this. Someone took a shot at programming all the their stuff into a single program, which was going to be offered for sale.

I've checked out many of the so-called tips and pops. Think you drilling a dry hole there, but wish you luck with your efforts.

Originally posted by rocajack


Dick,

I will go with the paper and pencil. If I make a few buck and think I like it. I will need to find someone who would be willing to do a program.

Thanks for your good luck wishes..........

[witchdoctor]

Long long time ago I to looked at TIPS and POPS because I was just learning to handicap and the method was highly recommended by the Phillips Racing Newsletter. (I didn't know that they recommended almost everything that came down the pike at that time.) The couple of times I tried it out it did OK but took forever. I called Mr Worth several years ago to see if anyone had made a program with the data and he said no. The more I know(think I know?) about handicapping I am not sure that the system would hold up in general. However I do think if someone had a database of a large number of races that you could find trainer specific patterns that would be profitable. Are you listening Dave? Sure would give you something to do in your free tome<G>

Rick

[Tom]

I used to use this method to some degree-I incorporated it into my basic (then) methodology which was simply every rule in Tom Ainsle's Complete Guide.
Then sepreating every horse with 10,000 plus factors he had in the back of the book, then checking out most of the simple systems he also had in there. then I went throught the TIPS and the 8 or 9 million additional plus factors I added to the original list. Then I paced-rated the contenders. Played about three races a week-only on Saturdays-no Sunday racing back then, and the Racing form came the day of the races, about two hours before the first post. Used to show up at the track for the 7th-9th races. Too late to pay admission. Then usually found out that my two-hour selcection had been scratched-no way to get scratches off track back then.
A losing streak of 10 races could last a month easy.
Thus began the "Beer Years."
Guess things aren't so bad these days after all.
Good luck-I am going to look for my old copy and give it a fresh read this weekend.
Tom

[John]

Thanks TOM
I was waiting to hear from you. After you reread TIPS. Please give me your comments. I would like to hear from you............

[Tom]

Happy Birthday (2 days late!)

Tom