show a profit?

[HIGH ROLLER]

hi, can anyone with the paper and pencil method tell me a few of the key rules?

[PaceAdvantage]

For free?

[Speed Figure]

Why not just buy the program, it's only $125.

[HIGH ROLLER]

don't want to start a flame thread, but when will you fools understand the world has changed? people are free to exchange idea's, we are not robots beholden to the corporate mentality, besides rpm is one of the worst rip=off outfits that has ever been.

if two people exchange ideas its no ones business, so please find something else to do.

[betchatoo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HIGH ROLLER
[B]don't want to start a flame thread, but when will you fools understand the world has changed? people are free to exchange idea's, we are not robots beholden to the corporate mentality, besides rpm is one of the worst rip=off outfits that has ever been.

Show- A- Profit is the property of Jon Worth of TIPS Reports. Jon is one of the most honorable people in this business. People do exchange ideas here all the time, but if you want someone's system, buy it

[HIGH ROLLER]

yea, i see where they are all HONORABLE people on the PA board that are knocking ME for what THEY do themselves! show me a guy that sez he has NEVER received a pirated(FREE) piece of horsey software or a FREE copy of a paper and pencil method and i'll show you a FREAKING LIAR!

[RonTiller]

HIGH ROLLER,

You don't want to start a flame thread but...
1. The Subject title is "Fools".
2. You address your remarks to "you fools".
3. You SEEM to imply that at least SOME people on this message board are "robots beholden to the corporate mentality" (whatever that is).
4. You state that RPM "is one of the worst rip=off outfits that has ever been".

Imagine if you actually WANTED to start a flame thread!!!

I'll second the thoughts by betchatoo concerning Jon Worth. I've had dealings with Jon in the past, both as a customer (buying his systems and subscribing to his TIPS Newsletter) and as a potential business associate. I have no evidence to the contrary that Jon is anything other than an honorable, honest, decent hardworking man who loves handicapping and puts out very well designed and produced products. The time and work that goes into his products is almost certainly only partially offset by the money he charges for them. And I might point out that he is carrying forward the TIPS methodology that was originally developed in the 1950s (I believe) by his father Tom Worth. No fly-by-night, corporate, rip-em-off-and-don't-leave-a-return-address operation this is.

For sure, there is no shortage of people who include under the mantle of "free exchange of ideas" the free exchange of other people's ideas, purchased as copyrighted products. And there is no shortage of justifications (or rebuffs to those who disagree): free speech, breaking free of robotized corporate mentality, they screwed us so we'll screw them, it's none of your business, etc.

To everybody on this message board who eschews this way of thinking (which apparently is most), good for you.

From a robotized, corporate mentalitied fool,

Ron Tiller
HDW

PS: If anybody has some time, can you post the complete text of Dave Schwartz's pars on the message board.

[CapperLou]

I would suggest that you purchase the software directly from Jon Worth. His phone number is listed in an earlier post on this thread. I did that and am satisfied with it. It is $100 plus S&H if you get it directly from him.

It seems to be a decent piece of software if it is used in the right situations. Research has shown that it is best used in maiden claiming races only. AND--you should play selections when they are 3-1 to 12-1 to win or win and place. I do not play to show, but some people who use it do.

Hope this helps you!!!

All the best,

CapperLou

P.S. I use this software to compliment Equisim and when I come up with the same horse in a md claimer race--I have what might be called an even stronger chance of winning.

[Jeep]

In the mid to late 60's a guy named Tarbox using the name Jack Carson used to buy up all the systems on the market and put 6 or 7 together monthly and sell them. He was eventually sued by some system writer and lost, so had to quit. Tom Worth sold systems back then and the Carson thing, called "The Fidelity System Book" had many of his systems in it. In the November-December 1968 book there was a system called The "Combination Method" by Ira Johnson. This system is a whole lot like the TIPS thing. I still have many of the old books and have the "Combination Method". My point is, is that Tom Worth got his idea for the TIPS thing from someone else, this was not his brain child, unless Ira Johnson took his Combination thing from Mr. Worth.

[BillW]

Originally posted by RonTiller


PS: If anybody has some time, can you post the complete text of Dave Schwartz's pars on the message board.

Ron,

You know the ole saying "Careful what you ask for ..."

Bill

[RonTiller]

Jeep,

Wow, I thought we were the only ones with copies of these old "Uncle" Jack Carson Fidelity Systems books. I dug around among the boxes of systems we have in the back and found the Nov-Dec 1968 issue, with the Combination Method by Ira Johnson.

You are certainly right in pointing out the similarities in the basic ideas behind Tips and the Combination Method. For those in the dark, they involve identifying certain factors involving the trainer, horse and jockey. These are added up for a tip count in Tips. Ira Johnson has major and minor power factors, which are added up for a "rating".

I am certainly no expert in Tips, the genesis and development of Tips, or the history of handicapping in America. We do have 4 boxes of systems and methods in the back room at HDW, many dating from the 1950s, including the Gambler's Book Store's original Systems and Methods, with Huey Mahl's wonderfully acerbic reviews (0 to 4 horseshoe ratings). By the way, it is absolutely incredible how many people promise 80% winners with no handicapping. It's also incredible how many have medievally complex rules that are obviously ad hoc and backfitted to the small sample presented as the "workout".

Without getting into a who invented calculus, Leibniz or Newton, or who first came up with the idea of the evolution of species by natural selection, Darwin or Wallace, I guess I can make a few observations.

First, as our boxes of systems testify, from the 1950s on, virtually all these factors were utilized by others in some combination or another. Even Ira Johnson mentions that he picked up some of his ideas from others.

Second, without knowing any of the history of Tom Worth's long stint as a turf writer and system developer, I suspect Jon Worth is the only person now alive that could illuminate the genesis of the Tips methodology.

Third, even if it turned out that Tom Worth got the idea of adding up various trainer and jockey factors for a point score from Ira Johnson's method, it is fair to say that Tom Worth and his customers certainly took that concept and ran. This much is obvious from reading the highly disorganized Tips manual published by Tom Worth and probably still available from his son. The 2002 Tips Update, published by Jon Worth, contains over 80 tips, along with various clusters of tips that are deemed especially significant and several methods of using the tips.

Well, so what? I don't have a good answer to that. Sigh...

BillW: Regarding "Careful what you ask for ..." Ok, I'll bite, I hereby ask for a million dollars and a sensitive, intelligent woman who likes to take long walks on the beach at sunset (which of course ensures that I'll have evenings all to myself, while she's on the beach!).

Ron Tiller
HDW

[Tom]

Does John Worth have a website? I think he used to, but I lost the URL.

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by HIGH ROLLER
hi, can anyone with the paper and pencil method tell me a few of the key rules?

1) There's no free lunch in this business!

2) There's not free lunch in this business!

And yes, finally:

3) There's no free lunch in this business!



NDJ

[Secretariat]

And people ask why vendors add restocking fees?

To cover guys who pirate like this guy....Jeez....

[BillW]

Originally posted by RonTiller


BillW: Regarding "Careful what you ask for ..." Ok, I'll bite, I hereby ask for a million dollars and a sensitive, intelligent woman who likes to take long walks on the beach at sunset (which of course ensures that I'll have evenings all to myself, while she's on the beach!).

Ron Tiller
HDW

Unfortunately it doesn't always work, I tried the other night on a juicy trifecta and it fell flat on its face