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Old 02-23-2018, 10:42 AM   #1
jay68802
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The All Play

In multi race bets or horizontal bets, when do you use All?

I have been experimenting with this lately and it seems that the best use of a All play is either in the first or last position. The advantages are easy to see. You are turning a Pick 3 into a double, or a Pick 4 into a Pick 3. The disadvantage is that it costs $$$$.

When doing this I am also tracking my picks for the race that I used All in. Although it is a small sample, my picks have won 70% of the races. But the payouts on the races where my picks did not win have been worth the extra money won.

So, do you use the All play, if so when, where, and why?
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:30 AM   #2
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This almost dovetails into a discussion about ones contender elimination percentages.

My feeling is if I am hitting all it better had be a complete chaos race that for whatever reason my normal handicapping process cannot eliminate my customary non contenders.

But if you are hitting all, and you are not beating a solid favorite in another leg, I see no advantage gained by the added combinations.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:01 PM   #3
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'ALL' is both overused, and underused by horseplayers.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
This almost dovetails into a discussion about ones contender elimination percentages.

My feeling is if I am hitting all it better had be a complete chaos race that for whatever reason my normal handicapping process cannot eliminate my customary non contenders.

But if you are hitting all, and you are not beating a solid favorite in another leg, I see no advantage gained by the added combinations.
Can agree with this, for a lot of reasons. But Pick 3 goes 8/5, 6/5, 60/1 and pays over $1000.00 tells me it might not all being about beating favorites.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:44 PM   #5
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All.

Use it when:

1) you want/have to play the horizontal and you have zero clue in the race. no law that says you cant play the faves an extra time or two to protect against a small payout.

2) you hate the chalk(s), but can't figure out who the winner might be
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:15 PM   #6
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Here are the three ways I will punch the all button. Hopefully these are ways you wouldn't have thought of previously, and the reason you made this thread


1. PICK 4 - For comfort, piece of mind, and to cash more often, I will often times use ALL in the last leg of a pick4 ticket. ESPECIALLY the late pick4 as the last race of the day tends to lean towards chaos.

2. ALMOST ALL - I love to use what I will call the Almost All button in one situation. If there are two heavy favorites in a race, I love one of them on top, and can't stand the other one to run second. These situations typically happen in shorter 6-8 horse fields. Normally I will key the horse I like one of two ways.

Option A: Use the probables to adjust each horse in second place to have the possible score at X amount of dollars.

Option B: Will just key the horse with everyone except second chalk on $10 exacta

3. DOUBLE - Probably my favorite and longest running all ticket.... I can remember hitting this way at some of the more wide open meets ( Gulfstream winter, Keeneland, and Saratoga )

If I have a strong opinion on a long shot in back to back races ( Example in leg A, in leg B. )

$1 dbl / ALL
$1 dbl ALL /
$1-$2 Dbl Fav, / Fav,

If you hit one of your Longshots you are golden, even if the favorite runs in the other leg because you will have multiple times. IF you are lucky enough to hit both longshots you are GETTING PAID

An example of this happened to me playing Hollywood park right before it closed ( I miss that track so much )



December 21, 2013
Race 5

I liked the 31-1 horse drawing the inside he dueled all the way around the track to just hold off the favorite, the next race looked wide open as well. The horse I keyed for the All / X double was nowhere to be seen, but luckily I had the all button as the 43-1 wins ( who I wouldn't have used on the ticket in 100 years ) triggering one of the largest $2 payoffs in Hollywood Park History


2.00 DB (PWHL) 1 / 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Bet $24 $3,728


The all button can be your friend if you know how to use it, and can catch a little bit of luck every once in a while. Hope this helps,
Jason
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:28 PM   #7
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I should prefece my comments to be multi race only, in trifectas and superfectas i think the all is very viable and something i use all the time.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:41 PM   #8
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I don't think you should ever go All. True, you might get that 60 to 1 that one time and make a good score but in the long run it is a bad strategy. You are playing horses you don't like. I can see (and do) going deep in a race but if you can pare down at least the ones you'd be shocked at...
You can always pass the sequence if you find it inscrutable. ALL tickets get expensive.
This really only regards P3s etc. I sometimes will go All on a dime super for 3 or 4th.

Last edited by RunForTheRoses; 02-23-2018 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:23 PM   #9
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The horizontal bettor who uses the ALL-button is implying that every single horse in the race is a legitimate win-contender. I don't think that I've ever encountered such a race in my entire horse-playing life.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
The horizontal bettor who uses the ALL-button is implying that every single horse in the race is a legitimate win-contender. I don't think that I've ever encountered such a race in my entire horse-playing life.

In theory you are correct, however jay68802 asked of ways to use the all button, and as I posted it is a good way to chase payouts, which I for one am ok with doing while maybe not being best for the long run, the day I start trying to grind out 5-2 winners will be the day I quit gambling.

Once again just my opinion, that is why this sport is so fun, everyone is allowed to have one.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si2see View Post
In theory you are correct, however jay68802 asked of ways to use the all button, and as I posted it is a good way to chase payouts, which I for one am ok with doing while maybe not being best for the long run, the day I start trying to grind out 5-2 winners will be the day I quit gambling.

Once again just my opinion, that is why this sport is so fun, everyone is allowed to have one.
I wasn't suggesting that you were in some way "wrong" in the post that you submitted. Nor am I trying to change anyone's mind when I state an opinion of my own here. I too refuse to grind out 5-2 winners...but I don't need the all-button in order to do that. IMO...the use of the all-button is a wasteful practice for the horizontal bettor...because at least a couple of horses in every race can always be eliminated from win-consideration...usually at first glance.

Of course...those who are having fun with the all-button are welcomed to keep using it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I wasn't suggesting that you were in some way "wrong" in the post that you submitted. Nor am I trying to change anyone's mind when I state an opinion of my own here. I too refuse to grind out 5-2 winners...but I don't need the all-button in order to do that. IMO...the use of the all-button is a wasteful practice for the horizontal bettor...because at least a couple of horses in every race can always be eliminated from win-consideration...usually at first glance.

Of course...those who are having fun with the all-button are welcomed to keep using it.


I couldn't agree more. Solid post

This could be an interesting thread, I wish it would've included a a vote because I wouldn't be surprised if it is split down the middle. It has always seemed to me people love or hate the ALL BUTTON
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:22 PM   #13
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If the *ALL BUTTON is a tool, try to have an idea or plan of what you want to do with it.

Magnify? = You have value in another leg and hope to magnify it

Connect? = Trying to link multiple opinions, and you have a competitive/chaotic race in the middle of the sequence

Focus? = When the *ALL race happens to be the focus itself, and you are content to link public contenders to this race


*Hitting the 'MOST' button is usually preferable to the 'ALL' button.

ALL - Impossibles = Most

Sometimes you have a short competitive field, or the longest shots have something(e.g. wire-to-wire threat) in addition to a big price, or the longest shots are unknowns (e.g. FTS), and you use all.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:03 PM   #14
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just my thoughts. if I come to a race where I feel I need to hit the all button I will pass the race. I have never used all but there have been times where I lost out on a nice score by not putting out the cash but also not sure in the long run if I did this every time I thought I needed the all I would be ahead of the game anyway.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si2see View Post
I couldn't agree more. Solid post

This could be an interesting thread, I wish it would've included a a vote because I wouldn't be surprised if it is split down the middle. It has always seemed to me people love or hate the ALL BUTTON
Logic dictates that the "All" is usually a waste of money and "betting on chaos" rather than having an opinion. However, early in my horse racing career I had hit the first two legs of a Pick 3 at decent prices. In the last leg I had 10 of 12 horses. One of the two I didn't have won at 30-1, and the Pick 3 paid $3500 for $1. Considering my income at the time, it definitely made me think.

I think how I saved $12 that day by not going "All" and it cost me several thousand. So, while logic dictates not using All, for peace of mind sometimes you have to do it. Or I do anyway. And let's face it---if you're betting 8 or 9 or 10 of 12 horses, you don't really have an opinion other than that the favorites are trash, so why not go for the All?
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