semi-interesting tidbit

[Afleet]

I run up to the track to cash my tri on the Bar of Gold race. I run it through the machines just to see what happens (would have been a signer earlier in the year and computer would not have paid it) it pays and I print the voucher and bring it to a teller. A manager comes up and says they need to see my social security card. I ask why-its not a signer(spent $72 on the tri wheel). They said the feds REQUIRE they record my SSN.

The manager takes a photocopy of my SSN, I complain again (identity theft, so forth and so on) and I'm starting to lose my temper. I get my cash and am leaving the window, the manager stops me and asks to see my player card and shows me the names of two people who won a handicapping contest over the past weekend. I didn't even know there was a handicapping contest. I came in 2nd even though the winners I bet straight up on Saturday where made threw a different outlet. A players appreciation employee, young woman, comes up and states we have to go downstairs to get the money and fill out a W-9. I said fine and collected another $500 for coming in 2nd place in the contest. I tried to tip her a c-note and she stated she couldn't take it. They knew I was from out of town and comped me lunch for my long drive home.

That was the first time I ever went to a racetrack and never made a bet-saved money

Interesting day to say the least

[Franco Santiago]

Originally Posted by Afleet

A manager comes up and says they need to see my social security card. I ask why-its not a signer(spent $72 on the tri wheel). They said the feds REQUIRE they record my SSN.

It is disconcerting that the federal government requires your social security number. Why? Is that requirement in the bill that was passed? So, even though you no longer have to get handed a W-2G, they in effect, are keeping track of the bets you cash that hit at 300-1 or greater? For audit purposes?

I think it stinks.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I don't know for sure, but if it is a transaction over 10K, the Feds may require some documentation, like at the banks....was your trifecta hit for a buck or more base wager, and therefore over 10K payoff in this case...?

[RunForTheRoses]

Does anyone know what to do with signers from earlier in the year? That is, will the filing of my taxes be seamless, I have my doubts with the IRS.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I don't know for sure, but if it is a transaction over 10K, the Feds may require some documentation, like at the banks....was your trifecta hit for a buck or more base wager, and therefore over 10K payoff in this case...?

it was less than $10k

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses

Does anyone know what to do with signers from earlier in the year? That is, will the filing of my taxes be seamless, I have my doubts with the IRS.

The new rules didn't change anything as far as previous signers or filing of taxes.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by toddbowker

The new rules didn't change anything as far as previous signers or filing of taxes.

Let's ask the most important question:

What does it take to cash and not have to do anything but take the cash and walk away? A bet lower than 10k return?

If so, it still makes sense to do small tickets, when taking the big picture into account.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Let's ask the most important question:

What does it take to cash and not have to do anything but take the cash and walk away? A bet lower than 10k return?

If so, it still makes sense to do small tickets, when taking the big picture into account.

Be careful. Engaging in a series of similar cash transactions to avoid the $10k reporting requirement is "structuring", a felony. It is what they went after Dennis Hastert for when he was paying his accuser.

[chiguy]

I am wondering if the request for the SS card was for the contest win. I know that a local casino here does these drawings at different times during the evenings and I was surprised to find out that if your name is drawn for a 1k drawing you had to sign and show your SSN. If you won $1199.99 on a machine you could just cash it out no questions asked.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by chiguy

I am wondering if the request for the SS card was for the contest win. I know that a local casino here does these drawings at different times during the evenings and I was surprised to find out that if your name is drawn for a 1k drawing you had to sign and show your SSN. If you won $1199.99 on a machine you could just cash it out no questions asked.

nope; they caught me as i was leaving and advised about the contest win, after the other incident

[Franco Santiago]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Be careful. Engaging in a series of similar cash transactions to avoid the $10k reporting requirement is "structuring", a felony. It is what they went after Dennis Hastert for when he was paying his accuser.

Is it still structuring if you don't hit the bet?

I'll bet there isn't a Pick-4 player alive that has not "structured" a bet.

Imagine going to the window and betting $2.00 base bets instead of 50 cent base bets because you didn't want to be accused of structuring! Laughable, IMO.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Franco Santiago

Is it still structuring if you don't hit the bet?

I'll bet there isn't a Pick-4 player alive that has not "structured" a bet.

Imagine going to the window and betting $2.00 base bets instead of 50 cent base bets because you didn't want to be accused of structuring! Laughable, IMO.

You aren't thinking about this right.

The bet isn't a $10k cash transaction. Cashing them is.

Cashing $10k of tickets on the same combination or horse separately to avoid reporting it is structuring. If you cash the separate tickets together and they are reported there is no structuring.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

You aren't thinking about this right.

The bet isn't a $10k cash transaction. Cashing them is.

Cashing $10k of tickets on the same combination or horse separately to avoid reporting it is structuring. If you cash the separate tickets together and they are reported there is no structuring.

Back to the main question, do you believe that the SSN was requested because it was a $10k payout? I buy that. So in a sense (as in a casino) they have a least some track on you if you cash a $10k+ wager, regardless.

What's funnier, if I'm getting your gist, is that you would cash two $8k tickets in a row if you had 2 identical winners (who would be stupid enough to do that); even if they were $12k each, you wouldn't just have someone else also cash it, while you cash ticket 2?

If I have this right, there is NO withholding, but they ARE withholding your SSN for payouts above $10k. Correct?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Back to the main question, do you believe that the SSN was requested because it was a $10k payout? I buy that. So in a sense (as in a casino) they have a least some track on you if you cash a $10k+ wager, regardless.

What's funnier, if I'm getting your gist, is that you would cash two $8k tickets in a row if you had 2 identical winners (who would be stupid enough to do that); even if they were $12k each, you wouldn't just have someone else also cash it, while you cash ticket 2?

If I have this right, there is NO withholding, but they ARE withholding your SSN for payouts above $10k. Correct?

It's two separate laws. One is tax withholding which has been discussed to death here. The other is federal reporting of any cash transaction of over $10k, taxable or not, which is really as much about money laundering as taxation.

And structuring occurs whenever you intentionally structure your transactions to ensure that each transaction is less than 10k to avoid reporting.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It's two separate laws. One is tax withholding which has been discussed to death here. The other is federal reporting of any cash transaction of over $10k, taxable or not, which is really as much about money laundering as taxation.

And structuring occurs whenever you intentionally structure your transactions to ensure that each transaction is less than 10k to avoid reporting.

Currency Transaction Report (CTR) are the issue here. Thousands of these are filed every day. It seems that only if you have that happening a lot or are a shady person, will it elicit by definition a look in. Best to keep your tickets and losses in case, anyway. I wonder what would be more "suspicious", reporting a $10k win with losses of $10k as well, or just not reporting it if you hit for $12k and it's only a CTR.