Democrats=no ideas

[JustRalph]

http://nypost.com/2017/07/09/why-dem...-war-of-ideas/

Interesting poll results in this article

[lamboguy]

we already know the republicans have no clue, now we know we are in big trouble.

[chadk66]

all of congress is nothing but a big dog and pony show.

[MutuelClerk]

Idea is a four letter word.

Not allowed in D.C.

Greed.

Works.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

http://nypost.com/2017/07/09/why-dem...-war-of-ideas/

Interesting poll results in this article

The Theme of the NY Post column linked above is that even a crappy idea is better than no idea at all. That would not be true even if there were no other ideas on refugee admission out there. The fact is the refugee admissions process right now is quite stringent and quite effective.

Every Applicant is subjected to several intensive interview conducted by the FBI, USCIS and the CBP. Background checks, Biographical checks and biometric checks are conducted which include information supplied by the National counterterrorism Center; TECS; DEA; HHS; FBI wanted Persons File; FBI Immigration Violators File; FBI Foreign Fugitive File; FBI Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File.

Persons from Iraq Afghanistan and Syria are subjected to additional scrutiny.

The Trump travel ban does accomplish a few things. It keeps innocent Muslims from entering the United States without due process. It reinforces the image of the US as arrogant and anti Muslim. It is a great recruiting tool for ISIS and Al Qaeda.

Since almost all of the Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil since 2001 were carried out by perpetrators who were born in this country or lived here since childhood, it does not solve a problem that does not exist.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by mostpost

The Trump travel ban does accomplish a few things. It keeps innocent Muslims from entering the United States without due process.

How are people who are neither citizens or legal residents of this country, in fact are not even in this country, entitled to any due process other that what the government decides is in the best interest of the country?

Are you claiming that every person in the world is entitled to 5th Amendment protection of due process?

Even if someone wants to argue that the 5th Amendment applies to every person in the world, what it says is that no person shall be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". How does not letting such a person enter the country deprive him of life, liberty, or property?

[zico20]

Originally Posted by mostpost

The Theme of the NY Post column linked above is that even a crappy idea is better than no idea at all. That would not be true even if there were no other ideas on refugee admission out there. The fact is the refugee admissions process right now is quite stringent and quite effective.

Every Applicant is subjected to several intensive interview conducted by the FBI, USCIS and the CBP. Background checks, Biographical checks and biometric checks are conducted which include information supplied by the National counterterrorism Center; TECS; DEA; HHS; FBI wanted Persons File; FBI Immigration Violators File; FBI Foreign Fugitive File; FBI Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File.

Persons from Iraq Afghanistan and Syria are subjected to additional scrutiny.

The Trump travel ban does accomplish a few things. It keeps innocent Muslims from entering the United States without due process. It reinforces the image of the US as arrogant and anti Muslim. It is a great recruiting tool for ISIS and Al Qaeda.

Since almost all of the Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil since 2001 were carried out by perpetrators who were born in this country or lived here since childhood, it does not solve a problem that does not exist.

Why shouldn't the USA be arrogant. We are the greatest nation this earth has ever seen. At least until you and your liberal nut case friends destroy it and turn us into a third world hell hole. It is not a great recruiting tool for ISIS. They just promise 72 virgins for blowing yourself up and thousands join.

You really do believe everyone on the planet has not only due process rights but also every Constitutional right Americans have.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by zico20

Why shouldn't the USA be arrogant.

Because arrogance is, at the very least, a microaggression which can trigger emotional trauma, and might even give some sensitive people the vapors. That's why every person on the face of the globe has a right to a safe space. And as the great country we are, we have the duty and obligation to make the world safe against being offended.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Because arrogance is, at the very least, a microaggression which can trigger emotional trauma, and might even give some sensitive people the vapors. That's why every person on the face of the globe has a right to a safe space. And as the great country we are, we have the duty and obligation to make the world safe against being offended.

Please wake me when this happens, even for... oh, let's say 24 hours.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Please wake me when this happens, even for... oh, let's say 24 hours.

Rest easy. It won't happen until the Chelsea Clinton administration.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Clocker

How are people who are neither citizens or legal residents of this country, in fact are not even in this country, entitled to any due process other that what the government decides is in the best interest of the country?

Are you claiming that every person in the world is entitled to 5th Amendment protection of due process?

Even if someone wants to argue that the 5th Amendment applies to every person in the world, what it says is that no person shall be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". How does not letting such a person enter the country deprive him of life, liberty, or property?

You have the wrong amendment and I had the wrong clause-although "Due Process could work. It's the 14th amendment and the clause is nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There are some very important words there. First notice that it does not say any citizen or any resident. It says any person within its jurisdiction. But jurisdiction does not only mean the physical confines of the state or country. It can also mean anywhere that a law of the United States impacts a person. Such as a law or laws defining how a person is allowed to enter this country. A law that allows a person of one country to enter under different rules than a person from a different country is a law that denies one of those people equal protection of the law. The fact that both are outside the boundaries of the United States is not only not mitigating, it is extremely germane.

Just so the slow minded-not you-understand this. A person in Romania, accused of a crime in Romanian courts, does not enjoy the protection of the US Constitution. A person in Romanian attempting to emigrate to the US does.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by zico20

Why shouldn't the USA be arrogant. We are the greatest nation this earth has ever seen. At least until you and your liberal nut case friends destroy it and turn us into a third world hell hole. It is not a great recruiting tool for ISIS. They just promise 72 virgins for blowing yourself up and thousands join.

You really do believe everyone on the planet has not only due process rights but also every Constitutional right Americans have.

In what way is the USA the "greatest nation on earth"? Are its citizens the "happiest"? Are they the "healthiest"? Are they the "smartest"? Do they live the LONGEST? Do they enjoy the best "standard of living"?

What "constitutional rights" do you suppose the Americans have which are denied to, say...the citizens of Switzerland...or Denmark...or England...or Australia...or even Canada?

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by zico20

Why shouldn't the USA be arrogant. We are the greatest nation this earth has ever seen. At least until you and your liberal nut case friends destroy it and turn us into a third world hell hole. It is not a great recruiting tool for ISIS. They just promise 72 virgins for blowing yourself up and thousands join.
We should be proud; not arrogant. There is an enormous difference. Being proud means we acknowledge the great things this country has done, but recognize progress has come from all over the globe. Being arrogant means we think that we are the only country that has ever accomplished something and all the other countries are backwater hell holes. Being proud means that we think-and I do-that the United States is the best place in the world to live, and yet we recognize that people in other countries around the world think the same way about their countries. Being arrogant means we have an attitude of superiority towards other countries and the people who live in them.


As for that 72 virgins nonsense, I would be willing to bet you any amount of money that not a single suicide bomber did so because he believed he would have 72 virgins in heaven. Of course we have never been able to interview a successful suicide bomber, but I have seen summaries of interviews with terrorists and I have never heard one who said he did it so he could have 72 virgins. They joined the cause because they did not like the way the US was treating Muslim nations. Anyway, what is the big deal with virgins? I would rather have a woman with experience.



You really do believe everyone on the planet has not only due process rights but also every Constitutional right Americans have.

Where do you get these goofy ideas? It is not nearly as simple as that. Someone in an opposing military-or quasi military force does not have those rights. Someone involved in terrorist attack against Americans in a foreign land does not have those rights. He/she has whatever rights he is entitled to in whatever country he/she is tried in.

Someone involved in a terrorist attack in the United States should have every Constitutional right regardless of his citizenship status. Someone who, regardless of his physical location on the planet, is affected by any laws of the United States, should enjoy those rights.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by mostpost

You have the wrong amendment and I had the wrong clause-although "Due Process could work. It's the 14th amendment and the clause is nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The 14th Amendment, Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The wording about due process here is exactly the same as in the 5th Amendment, and means exactly the same thing. The last clause prohibits discrimination, such as racial or sex. Like the 5th, it refers only to people within the jurisdiction of the state.

There are some very important words there. First notice that it does not say any citizen or any resident. It says any person within its jurisdiction. But jurisdiction does not only mean the physical confines of the state or country. It can also mean anywhere that a law of the United States impacts a person.

You are just restating your original claim that every person on the planet must be accorded the same rights as a citizen or resident of a state and the country. That by expressing a desire to come here, one has established the rights as if he was already here.

If there is any doubt as to the meaning of a law or the Constitution, that doubt is settled by case law and by court decisions. You made the ridiculous statement that anyone and everyone in the world is entitled to due process here, contrary to basic logic and the plain language of the Constitution. Please cite any case law or SCOTUS decision that backs up your claim.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

In what way is the USA the "greatest nation on earth"? Are its citizens the "happiest"? Are they the "healthiest"? Are they the "smartest"? Do they live the LONGEST? Do they enjoy the best "standard of living"?

What "constitutional rights" do you suppose the Americans have which are denied to, say...the citizens of Switzerland...or Denmark...or England...or Australia...or even Canada?

Gus, were you born in the United States? You see where the next question will come from? Anyone can make it here if they have the drive and determination. The success of those who were not born here have been well documented, the drive and determination often lacking in many native born being a factor. Here there are no guarantee that your expectations will be realized, everything depends on you. Over the last couple of decades social engineers have made great strides in removing the stairs that enable those who want to climb and instead replaced those stairs with mediocre one size fits all attempts. For everyone who has failed they at the very least tried, and personally know many who did not fail. Back up your feelings with what you know to be true.