TUP fires back!!

[fmhealth]

Worth a read.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...eud/323835001/

[MONEY]

Here is the most revealing sentence in the above article.

Turf Paradise maintains a five-day-a-week schedule for its horsemen.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

There are two important points Francia didn't bring up that also underlie the problem. First is that fact that Jerry Simms and the Commissioners have an unnaturally close relationship. How do you fairly regulate someone when you are regularly socializing with them on and off the track? Second, the qualifications of the Commissioners reflect the political nature of appointments. Instead of appointing people with experience beyond being a racing fan, you can be sure being a buddy of Jerry Simms had a lot to do with their ending up in the job.

The Arizona Republic article brought out a legitimate point. The state has spent 3/4 of a million dollars in lawyer expenditures as a result of the Simms brothers dispute. That's not exactly chump change.

The effect of the Indian casinos can't be discounted, but that doesn't change the problem of regulators being in bed with the regulated. I'd love to hear the TuP solution to their problem because the Indian casinos are going nowhere.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The Republic was nice enough to wait until just after the meet closes to run the article - the last week of the meet being the moneymaker with the Derby - and for some reason there was a need to respond with more of the same. Ah yes, things are just wonderful at Turf Paradise, it's just that nearly everyone else has it completely wrong. Really, this thing would have died on the vine within a matter of days, if that long. A 'response' from Mr. Mayor here seems very counterproductive as it only perpetuates the attention they don't want.

[Jeff P]

Francia also didn't mention that at 20.75% takeout for WPS, Turf Paradise is arguably fleecing its on track customers.

The greater Phoenix area has undergone tremendous population growth over the past 30 years.

Yet at the same time all the charts and data clearly show that Turf Paradise's business keeps shrinking.

I grew up in the Phoenix area and I remember how fun and vibrant and crowded things were at Turf Paradise in the early 1980's.

Something must be driving those customers away.

I would argue, at the very least, that 20.75% WPS takeout makes it incredibly difficult for Turf Paradise to retain new fans long enough to convert them into horseplayers.

And that precisely because of their high takeout:

Almost every new fan who just moved to the Phoenix area who gives betting on horses a try at Turf Paradise quickly discovers (from a how fast does my gambling stake disappear perspective) that their money lasts longer at the casino than it does at Turf Paradise.

In the article it seems like Francia is asking for a slots subsidy so he can turn Turf Paradise into a racino.

At some point horse racing is going to have to stand on its own two feet if it hopes to survive.

In my mind the way forward isn't to ask for a slots subsidy or bailout -- but rather to start making horse racing attractive to the public from a gambling perspective.


-jp

.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Francia also didn't mention that at 20.75% takeout for WPS, Turf Paradise is arguably fleecing its on track customers.

The greater Phoenix area has undergone tremendous population growth over the past 30 years.

Yet at the same time all the charts and data clearly show that Turf Paradise's business keeps shrinking.

I grew up in the Phoenix area and I remember how fun and vibrant and crowded things were at Turf Paradise in the early 1980's.

Something must be driving those customers away.

I would argue, at the very least, that 20.75% WPS takeout makes it incredibly difficult for Turf Paradise to retain new fans long enough to convert them into horseplayers.

And that precisely because of their high takeout:

Almost every new fan who just moved to the Phoenix area who gives betting on horses a try at Turf Paradise quickly discovers (from a how fast does my gambling stake disappear perspective) that their money lasts longer at the casino than it does at Turf Paradise.

In the article it seems like Francia is asking for a slots subsidy so he can turn Turf Paradise into a racino.

At some point horse racing is going to have to stand on its own two feet if it hopes to survive.

In my mind the way forward isn't to ask for a slots subsidy or bailout -- but rather to start making horse racing attractive to the public from a gambling perspective.


-jp

.

as a former employee at TuP and someone who travels around the country to see races...I rarely go to TuP, once every 5 years maybe. I never bet it, that would be insane do to the takeout. I dont want it to go anywhere though, with it would be the ability to bet over the phone on the rest of the country.

[maliksealy210]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

as a former employee at TuP and someone who travels around the country to see races...I rarely go to TuP, once every 5 years maybe. I never bet it, that would be insane do to the takeout. I dont want it to go anywhere though, with it would be the ability to bet over the phone on the rest of the country.

That is a key point to make. This is a commission that does not allow us to use a computer or mobile app to bet via ADW. We have to use touch tone systems. What is funny is that with every touch tone ADW, we have to go online to cancel bets. It is a really messed up system.

I go out once a year when I get a Groupon for the deal in the Turf Club, where I tune my monitor to other tracks and place wagers around the country. I will support them being in business, but not with my gambling dollars with the lack of quality, honest horsemen left, and the insane takeout.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

The takeout is one of the reasons I never bet the place or even visited. TP was about 1.5 hours from me when I was in Tucson for two years and never once made the trip.