Form Points

[Tom]

There has been some talk about this book byTom Hamblton. I bought it and thought it was a good lesson on current form. The method is a point "system" for various types of races, and although I didn't actually calculate the horse's score every race, the ideas behind the points were enlightening. With today's downloadable PPs it would probably be possible to
write a program to figure out the points for each horse.
Tom is a good writer and he makes his ideas easy to read and understand. I alway enjoyed the presentations
the he and Dick Schmidt put on at Sartin seminars.
Form Points is a good read.
Tom

[andicap]

Tom,
the problem I have with generating the Form Points by computer is that you don't see what goes into the points. Not all "16s" are alike if you know what I mean.
Also, the act of calcuating the points gives you insight into races by itself. Unfortunately it was too time-consuming and I had to give it up.
Hambleton also advocates 'modeling" form points for each track.

andicap.

[Dick Schmidt]

Not only is it possible to computerize form points, it has been done. Tom and Michael Perry did it in some of the programs they developed, and the current edition of Synergism has a form point calculation that is very similar to Tom's.

Dick

[Larry Hamilton]

Please define form in a Hambleton sense.

I think it means a horse is at the top of his game, I am extremely interested in finding something that measures that. That, afterall, is the key to picking the right race from the pp's

[Dick Schmidt]

Essentially what Tom developed was a way to aproximate current form for a horse based on a point system. Two points for this, minus two for that. I'm afraid I no longer remember the exact system, nor would I post it on the internet as it does not belong to me. If you want a copy, you might try American Turf Monthly or one of the other racing book sites. GBC might be able to find you a used copy. Or someone might know where Tom is living. If so, please send me a private e-mail, as I would like to get in contact with him.

Dick

[hdcper]

Hi Everyone,

I also believe form points are available in the Allways program if I remember right (not really a user of that program). However, it should be easy to check by downloading the free version from Bris and looking at the datafile that is included.

Hdcper

[Dick Schmidt]

Allways may have some type of form points, but they are not the ones developed by Tom Hambleton.

Dick

[Myhorse1_X]

Tom:

Hambleton did program some software that uses the FormPoint theory. I think if you contacted Hambleton, he might sell you a copy. I don't think it was very expensive.

MyHorse1

[Lefty]

No one seems to be able to contact Tom Hambelton. A
few yrs ago Ron Ambrose disappeared, now Hambelton... Aliens?

[hdcper]

Dick,

Sorry but i think you are wrong. Your post made me pull up my copy of Allways and it has a report called "Form by the numbers" which lists Hambleton form points at the bottom of the page and even breaks them down.

Also their manual discusses Hambleton form points on page 47.

Just thought you might like to know,

Hdcper

[Dave Schwartz]

Hdcper,

Actually, I think you are both right. (Do I have a future in diplomacy, or what?)

I believe that the Allways site has made a few minor mods to the original form points. But it IS the essence of Tom's Form Points.

And, yes, Dick, it may well be a copyright infringement. (But that's not my biz.)

[andicap]

Originally posted by Dick Schmidt
Not only is it possible to computerize form points, it has been done. Tom and Michael Perry did it in some of the programs they developed, and the current edition of Synergism has a form point calculation that is very similar to Tom's.

Dick

Dick, you missed my point. I never said it was impossible to computerize form points. I've seen it done. I just wondered how valuable it was to see a stark number but not the work that went into it. Doing it yourself gives you more than just a number: The exercise itself is extremely valuable. And I'm sure at some tracks some parts of form points work better than at others.
For example, take layoffs. There are meets where almost every horse comes off a layoff so their FP are going to be lower. In some meets layoff horses have an advantage over horses who have been racing all year and are tired. Doing the FP by hand lets you identify those meets.

BTW, I only heard of Michael Perry's passing a few months ago. I worked with him and Bill Burns on the original ThoroVision manual and I met Tom and Jim Cramer once through them though I have not been in touch with any of those people.

I will say I thought ThoroVision was one of the best pieces of software I have ever used especially for pace players. It is still around -- HDW updates the pars -- and I recommend it very highly. I don't use it because of my work I don't have enough time to bet enough to justify paying $100 a month for any software. If I did I'd recommend ThoroVision and Colts Neck (a pace/speed figure service) as the two best I've ever seen.


andicap

[Lefty]

Dave, ALLWAYS is a mish-mosh of stuff seemingly lifted
from several prgms. Lookout, yours may be next.

[Dave Schwartz]

Lefty,

(Why do they call you that? <G>)

I look forward to being next.

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... Let them flatter.

Remember that much of what we do is "Open Source."

[Dick Schmidt]

Considering how many programs feature the Total Pace Ratings that Tom developed, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that someone ripped off his Form Points as well. I didn't realize that they were now using Tom's numbers. The only programs that actually have permission from Tom to use either TPR or Form Points are Synergism and of course his own programs that he wrote with Michael Perry.

As for the "art vs. science" argument of using computer generated numbers as opposed to making them yourself one at a time, the whole idea is that form is a balance of many factors, and that one offsets another. A 16 point horse is a 16 point horse no matter how the points are earned. The whole idea was to augment the pace numbers generated for each horse and stop the player from backing a horse that was far out of shape. Carry the "hands on is best" argument to its logical conclusion and you'll be back using pencil and paper. I gave up the search for perfection long ago, and settled for winning money. I'm sure hand crafted numbers are best, but try doing them for seven tracks, every race, every horse for a month and then see if you don't agree that a computer approximation is good enough to work with.

Dick