Thoughts on Sartin Programs?

[Gunshy]

Firstly, let me thank everyone who replied to my post "Searching for Best Software". Half of you suggested that I search through the previous posts which discussed the various software. I did, and I was surprised by the number of potentially excellent programs that are available. Also, I was surprised at the number of different approaches and methodologies that software developers and user-handicappers have taken. I am focusing on the software that is highly regarded by the experienced users here. I will post the preliminary results of my search in a few days.

The other half recommended that I read and study as much as I can about handicapping before I get that software so that it will match my own style. That is the subject of my question to the group - Has anyone heard of a program called Speculator?

I have been studying the Sartin Methodology and it’s evolution and derivatives, along with the update done by Brohamer in Modern Pace Handicapping. I have come across a relatively unknown DOS program called Speculator which was written by the programmer who wrote the software used by Dr. Sartin. Speculator is proclaimed to be an updated version of the last generation of Sartin’s software, the Validator series. Speculator is not marketed except by word of mouth and is highly regarded on a Yahoo group started by followers of Dr. Sartin, who retired due to health problems several years ago, and users of his programs.

If anyone has any experience with Speculator or any opinions on programs that use or have incorporated Dr. Sartin's handicapping philosphies, I would appreciate your input. Thank you.

[shanta]

Gunshy,
These are MY opinions ok?
1) Do NOT get validator 3( if you could even find it). It is basically validator 2 with a bell or whistle added That I think will not help you get even 1 extra winner.

2) validator 2 is a winner in the hands of someone who can enter reasonably representative pacelines for horses and who can also stay OUT of races where there are a lot of mix and match horses( sprinters, routers) in the same race.

3) Regarding Speculator I know 2 people who have it and both are very happy with the program. It uses the same trackmaster download as the above mentioned programs. One of the major diiferences is that the Speed ratings used are not Trackmasters but are rather based on "in house par times" created by the programmer Guy Wadsworth.

4) HSH is a program that I have been using for about 6 weeks now. It incorporates a lot of Sartin readouts in a couple of its "modules". It also allows the user access to database queries.
Neural nets "training" is another feature that you can utilize. There are like 6 different programs in HSH but you did ask specifically about Sartin and this does have a lot of Sartin's stuff in it ok? Being a "newbie" user I probably have not done the program justice or described it accurately Gunshy. If you are interested you can contact Dave Schwartz at www.horsestreet.com . I DO know that the customer service is second to none.

Good hunting!
Richie Pizzicara

[Gunshy]

Thanks for the input, Richie.

You have confirmed what I felt about the Sartin programs, Validator (which is no longer available unless you find a user who wants to sell) and Speculator -- you have to be an "expert" in the Sartin Methodology and pace handicapping to use them properly, and if you interpret them correctly you get good results.

My concern is that there are so many handicapping methods that I don't want to be unduely limited to use only one method or use a program that only supports one handicapping method.

I appreciate your comments on HSH. I am giving it serious consideration, along with TB5 and Power Online.

[Dave Schwartz]

Check out this eBay item:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5104478321

[witchdoctor]

If you had to choose between TB5 and HSH, go with HSH. Dave wrote both but supports only HSH. He sold TB5 to a group known as PRI many years ago. HSH has many ways to attack the races and last time I looked TH5 uses only AI. I can't comment about Pwer Online.

[sq764]

Gunshy, you do not have to be an expert in the Sartin methodology by any means!!!

Ask Richie, he showed me how to use Validator in a week and now I wouldn't use any other program out there. I have been given almost every piece of software to test out and this is the most effective one I have personally seen. (I will say I have never tried HSH or HTR, so I cannot comment on them, except for the expensive data)

You need to figure out how much time and money you have to spend first.. If you are into a database program, it's going take a lot of time and effort (and money) to build one that is effective.. Also, if you are going to purchase software that uses HDW files, it's going to be pricey.

Good luck whichever avenue you go.

[Dave Schwartz]

Actually, I wrote TB1, TB2, TB3 and TB4. I did not write TB5.

But you should still go with HSH. <G>


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[trying2win]

Dave,

It appears that on the ebay ad for HSH, that you don't want any potential Canadian customers. Part of the ad reads:

SHIPS TO UNITED STATES ONLY.

In the past whenever I've been interested in bidding on an ebay item and I see that line about SHIPS TO UNITED STATES ONLY, I've contacted the seller. A lot of the sellers have told me that was an oversight and should have included CANADA as well. In some cases, the seller was willing to make an exception for a potential Canadian buyer who has a good "buyer" record at ebay.
Then again, some U.S. sellers may have had bad experiences with the postal system in the past, when shipping to Canada. If that's the case, I can understand why they would put that designation of SHIPS TO UNITED STATES ONLY.

In case there was any oversight, could you clarify the shipping part of the ebay ad, for any Canadian PA members who might be interested in HSH?

Thanks,

T2W

[Crosley]

You need to figure out how much time and money you have to spend first.. If you are into a database program, it's going take a lot of time and effort (and money) to build one that is effective.. Also, if you are going to purchase software that uses HDW files, it's going to be pricey.

Any recommendations on a Software package for a player that mostly plays on weekends, whose current level of play would only justify buying data files as needed, maybe several a week?

If HSH offered single file purchases would it be a worthwhile program or is the database function critical to it's operation?

Bill

[Dave Schwartz]

T2W,

I will work on that immediately!

Thanks.

Dave

[sq764]

Crosley, if you are a weekend player, it might not be a good idea to tie up $130 a month in data costs, but that is up to you. I know nothing about HSH, only that the data is a little costly for a part time player.

You might want to start with a simple program with small data costs.. (Trackmaster, Bris, TSN files, etc...)

[Crosley]

sq...

Yes, but which one, any recommendations? Val is out I'd really like a Windows based program.

I fool around a bit with Quickhorse and struggle somewhat with Speculator, just haven't found the right one that suits me yet.

Bill

[sq764]

Um, Speculator is a dos program too..

[Crosley]

Right, that's part of the reason I'm struggling with it, printing problems, speed, etc.... very cumbersom and I'm not getting the results others seem to be; I guess my paceline selectins aren't up to par.

[Tom]

Crosley,
Two that come to mind are MPH by Brohammer-from TrackMaster.
Great pace velictiy program.
The other is Multicaps (or Procaps, the TSN version)
Multi is a nice program with lots of differnet things in it, whatever suits your fancy. It is free, and uses BRIS files, which can be purchased as singles. I do not like the modeler part of it because it breaks races down way to fiite to ever get a meaningful model, but if you only play on weekends, it is probably good to jsut model weekend races by hand.