Is it Possible SIMMSTOWN turned a .23 final quarter

[NorCalGreg]

I'm just casually looking at charts this morning..and SIMMSTOWN leapt off the page. I'm not a student of internal fractions, but I'm thinking, even though the actual pace was near par...this final quarter-mile seems outstanding. The early pace was hot--this one maintained his running postion--then seemed to explode in the final qtr.

To those who DO STUDY fractional times--do you find this often with low level claimers?? --the rest of the field seems rather ho-hum...

6th race penn national Thursday 2/11
6 Furlongs. Clm 15000n1y Purse $19,000 (PLUS UP TO 40% PABF) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NOT WON A RACE SINCE AUGUST 11.

[EMD4ME]

Hand timed it myself once informally. All Q's seem right.

Was about 7 1/2 back after 1/2, made up 6 in last Q. Was the only mover in the last 1/4 & was finishing well.


DRF has the final Q in 23.81 which makes sense as the winner came home (1st over, 1 back trip) in 24.65.

After checking the charts, it was the fastest come home (individual horse) of the night and visually it supports it.

To answer your question, I believe he came home in 23.81

[hopbet]

NCG,
I just watched the REPLAY. To combine this , with your LAST post "horses to watch". The BOTTOM LINE, you are putting in the time(work). I read your post (mostly all of them ) and form my opinion prior to wagering.

HOPBET " STILL CHASING MY LOSSES"

[cj]

We have the last 1/4 at 24.04

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by cj

We have the last 1/4 at 24.04

pfffft....lawdy-da.....We have the last 1/4 at 24.04

If people nowadays still did things the old-fashioned way--the same way my pappy taught me how to handicap--based on sound mathematical principles--you would calculate it thusly:

The final qtr--for the race--was run in 25 seconds--my horse gained 6.5 lengths during that 25 seconds. There are, and always has been--5 fiths in a second's elapsed time--always been that way.
Deduct 6.5 fiths from 25 seconds, and you will see it comes to comes to 23 & 4/5ths----or, a final qtr-mile in exactly 23.8 seconds.

So my initial calculation was faulty, I was too low-- but I see EMD and his tried and true methods came up with EXACTLY the same time.

Seriously (yes, that old-timey calculation thing was tongue-in-cheek) had hoped to get a conversation going about fractional times, final quarters under 24 seconds, and the grandaddy of them all...ROUTES with a final 8th under .12...and final 1/16th under 6 seconds.

Seems technology has rendered alot of the thinking-for-yourself---obsolete.

[ultracapper]

Seriously (yes, that old-timey calculation thing was tongue-in-cheek) had hoped to get a conversation going about fractional times, final quarters under 24 seconds, and the grandaddy of them all...ROUTES with a final 8th under .12...and final 1/16th under 6 seconds.

Seems technology has rendered alot of the thinking-for-yourself---obsolete.[/QUOTE]

Even though, with technology today proving it's irrefutable that a thoroughbred runs closer to 6 lengths per second than 5, the old standards that your grandaddy followed still can carry the water. If you use the old 5 lengths per second and a horse breaks those benchmarks that I extracted from your post, you have a runner to be taken very seriously.

The ability of the number makers to be as concise as they are today just makes it possible to split hairs in relation to timing races and individual trips. However, a 10th of a second here or there rarely gives a horseplayer an advantage. You see a horse like your subject horse here blowing up down the stretch, and calculating it using G-Pa's method, it tells you enough to know he made a real impact in that race, and it makes him real dangerous in his next race. The real key is the fact the subject horse was the only horse in that field making that move. He did something unique to the field, and that's what's really important. It gives you a great idea that it wasn't a product of a very fast stretch or a wind aided charge. If it would have been something of that nature, one or more of the other horses in the race would have made some kind of move in the stretch that would have made the subject horse's move not look as visually impressive as it did.

In this case, 23.82, 24.04, is academic, and frankly, I find it to be academic in most cases. Anyhow, I wouldn't disregard the significance of that move just because he may have, in reality, stopped the clock a smidge over 24, therefore not conforming to the benchmark. It's obvious he put in an exceptional stretch run.

I play the maidens and N2Ls in Socal, and the granddaddy of all internal fractions in those sprint races is the 1/4 pole to the 1/8 pole in sub 12 for the race, and any horse making up ground into that is a potential rent payer next out. If that horse is brought back in a timely manner at the same trip, LOOK OUT. One caveat, because the LosAl 1/4 pole is in the home stretch, I look for sub 11.4 for the 1/4 pole to 1/8 pole. They are running that entire furlong straight, and if the horse changes leads properly, is entering that furlong at a full run. You always have to be a bit tougher on the stretch run times at LosAl because of that long straight away.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

Seriously (yes, that old-timey calculation thing was tongue-in-cheek) had hoped to get a conversation going about fractional times, final quarters under 24 seconds, and the grandaddy of them all...ROUTES with a final 8th under .12...and final 1/16th under 6 seconds.

Seems technology has rendered alot of the thinking-for-yourself---obsolete.

Even though, with technology today proving it's irrefutable that a thoroughbred runs closer to 6 lengths per second than 5, the old standards that your grandaddy followed still can carry the water. If you use the old 5 lengths per second and a horse breaks those benchmarks that I extracted from your post, you have a runner to be taken very seriously.

The ability of the number makers to be as concise as they are today just makes it possible to split hairs in relation to timing races and individual trips. However, a 10th of a second here or there rarely gives a horseplayer an advantage. You see a horse like your subject horse here blowing up down the stretch, and calculating it using G-Pa's method, it tells you enough to know he made a real impact in that race, and it makes him real dangerous in his next race. The real key is the fact the subject horse was the only horse in that field making that move. He did something unique to the field, and that's what's really important. It gives you a great idea that it wasn't a product of a very fast stretch or a wind aided charge. If it would have been something of that nature, one or more of the other horses in the race would have made some kind of move in the stretch that would have made the subject horse's move not look as visually impressive as it did.

In this case, 23.82, 24.04, is academic, and frankly, I find it to be academic in most cases. Anyhow, I wouldn't disregard the significance of that move just because he may have, in reality, stopped the clock a smidge over 24, therefore not conforming to the benchmark. It's obvious he put in an exceptional stretch run.

I play the maidens and N2Ls in Socal, and the granddaddy of all internal fractions in those sprint races is the 1/4 pole to the 1/8 pole in sub 12 for the race, and any horse making up ground into that is a potential rent payer next out. If that horse is brought back in a timely manner at the same trip, LOOK OUT. One caveat, because the LosAl 1/4 pole is in the home stretch, I look for sub 11.4 for the 1/4 pole to 1/8 pole. They are running that entire furlong straight, and if the horse changes leads properly, is entering that furlong at a full run. You always have to be a bit tougher on the stretch run times at LosAl because of that long straight away.[/QUOTE]

You are correct technology have moved the needle forward in measuring the distance of
the lengths between racehorses during a race.

However the real movement is understanding that in a horserace time is constant and distance is variable.

Therefore the time value of a length becomes 1/6 seconds or ,17 decimal seconds.

What this does is get away from a fixed distance value for a length (which I formerly used) to a variable distance for a length.

[NorCalGreg]

Now Cratos, even you, yourself can see that--figuring pace fractions using old-style "1length = 1/5th"...my figure of 23.8 final qtr-- was remarkably similar to EMD's figure, (23.81) which he arrived @ with DRF info, and his own hand-timing of the race.

I'm almost positive CJ will come back, and explain how his Timeform figs are indusputable---that's fine. But obviously someone is wrong--why is it necessarily "human error" DRF makes use of electronic readings of running positions, and lengths behind/ahead.

The question of whether a length =1/5th seconds or 1/6th, wouldn't accout for the discrepancy between 23.8-- & the 24.04 reading Timeform came up with.

[cj]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

Now Cratos, even you, yourself can see that--figuring pace fractions using old-style "1length = 1/5th"...my figure of 23.8 final qtr-- was remarkably similar to EMD's figure, (23.81) which he arrived @ with DRF info, and his own hand-timing of the race.

I'm almost positive CJ will come back, and explain how his Timeform figs are indusputable---that's fine. But obviously someone is wrong--why is it necessarily "human error" DRF makes use of electronic readings of running positions, and lengths behind/ahead.

The question of whether a length =1/5th seconds or 1/6th, wouldn't accout for the discrepancy between 23.8-- & the 24.04 reading Timeform came up with.

I don't think it makes much difference, was never trying to imply that. I would never rely on last 1/4 mile times alone anyway. That measure doesn't have much value by itself, particularly in dirt sprints. But sometimes it does---such is horse racing

[thaskalos]

If you base your sprint wagers on the last fractions of the horse's...not only won't you be able to "pay the rent"...but you stand a great chance of getting EVICTED.

[Speed Figure]

I have it as 23.6

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If you base your sprint wagers on the last fractions of the horse's...not only won't you be able to "pay the rent"...but you stand a great chance of getting EVICTED.

And therefore "potential" rent payer, is the proper viewpoint.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If you base your sprint wagers on the last fractions of the horse's...not only won't you be able to "pay the rent"...but you stand a great chance of getting EVICTED.

Well thask...this is like the umpteenth time you've found a post/statement etc of mine--sifted through it...and apparently concluded that I really don't have a clue. I really just started this thread to get a discussion going on internal fractions....this horse happened to stand out.

Thanks for your feedback, either way.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

I have it as 23.6

That middle 1/8th---11.5, is pretty impressive SF. Ultracapper, as he mentioned maiden 'capping.. would probably run to the windows if he caught that split in a SOCAL MD...and we're talking 12.5K claimers in this race.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

And therefore "potential" rent payer, is the proper viewpoint.

Potential living in a big cardboard box down by the library is more like it