MURRAY KRAM SOFTWARE - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

mike · 01-06-2002, 01:51 AM

HI, I WOULD LIKE TO E-MAIL ANYONE WHO HAS KRAM'S ULTRA-PICK PLUS OR ULTRA-PICK ULTIMATE

mike · 01-08-2002, 05:28 AM

IT REALLY AMAZES ME HOW THIS GUY CAN CONTINUE TO SELL PROGRAMS THAT ARE LARELY A SHAM AND WRITTEN IN SUCH A SHODDY MANNER.

WHERE DOES HE FIND THE SUCKERS TO PAY $600 OR 700 DOLLARS FOR THIS JUNK?

NoDayJob · 01-08-2002, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike
IT REALLY AMAZES ME HOW THIS GUY CAN CONTINUE TO SELL PROGRAMS THAT ARE LARELY A SHAM AND WRITTEN IN SUCH A SHODDY MANNER.

WHERE DOES HE FIND THE SUCKERS TO PAY $600 OR 700 DOLLARS FOR THIS JUNK?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Murry is a master of the con. Years ago I bought a library from a lady that had his $5k trifecta program. I paid $300 for the whole shooting match. She paid $5k for that one program. It is pure garbage.

He tells everybody that his son is the programmer just like he tells everybody he was a trainer. In his best year as a trainer his horses raked in less than $100k. If his handicapping skills are as good as his training and programming skills it beats me how he ever won those contests he brags about. CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!

Lefty · 01-08-2002, 12:34 PM

Gordon Jones says Kram uses multiple entries to win the contests and won one by mistake. He sent his son to put in ticket and son comes back with wrong horse and Kram cusses him out because no time to change. Wrong play wins at $60+ and Kram advertises his skills win it.

sq764 · 01-08-2002, 05:50 PM

Who in God's name would pay $5,000 for software? That is just very sad that people would do that. When I first started handicapping, I was so enthralled with software, wanted to see everything I could. But I made it a point to test everything first. I still am that way, and I think that if the seller does not even offer a trial period on his software, then its not worth the time. That tells me that they don't have much confidence in their software.

Just my opinion of course..

Scott

Tom · 01-08-2002, 07:04 PM

This is the age old question, like which came firs, the chicken or the egg. I once order cordon bleau and an omlet at the same time,but they came on the same plate, so no answer there.
~G!~

But anyways, if I had $5000 I wouldn't have to play the horses.
Or is it, If I didn't play the horses, I would have $5000???
This game is deep!

Tom

Lefty · 01-09-2002, 12:39 PM

If I remember Krams' DRF ads correctly he advertises at $5000 then makes a special at $169 or something of that sort.
Still too much. I traded for one back in old Dos days and while I can't tell you who has the best prm or prms I can say Kram has the worst.

Richard · 01-10-2002, 09:11 PM

I just cant help but wonder if Mr. Kram has viewed this messsage board.It would be most interesting to see if he might log-in and defend himself.No one is keeping him from doing so.

PaceAdvantage · 01-10-2002, 09:24 PM

I've never used the program, or seen the program, but I find it very interesting that the people coming on here and trashing the man and his programs haven't provided one single example of why they think his stuff is more worthless then anything else that's out there.....

You'd think that such condemnation would prompt those who hate to want to tell why they hate...I know *I* would....

==PA

Lefty · 01-11-2002, 08:57 PM

PA, been a long time since I looked at Kram's prgm but if memory serves you had to go through GW-Basic just to run the thing and next it came up with reasons to play just about every horse in the race; nothing solid to sink your teeth into.
Also, an independant computer tester tested it for PRN and said no way Kram used his pgm to win any contests.
Let's put this way, anybody like the prgms he puts out?

PaceAdvantage · 01-11-2002, 09:13 PM

Simply asking if anyone likes or hates the program does little for me. The example you provided (going through GW-basic) is what I was looking for from someone jumping to tell me why a program isn't any good. You provided a concrete (I assume) example of why you didn't like his program.

Now, if others would come on here and provide concrete examples as to why they don't like a particular piece of software, I'd think we'd all be better off...instead of just shooting off generalities like "It sucks" or "It's the worst...."

==PA

Tom · 01-12-2002, 12:08 AM

PA,
Good point. I would suggest that more often than not, it is not the program that sucks but rather the handicapping skills of the
person failing to win with it.
I have used a lot of different programs and won wtih them, yet others have done nothing but complain about them. Did I get d differnet version than they did?
HSH and HTR have loyal followings, yet they are the subject of ridicule over at Trash 'n Cash.
It would benifit everyone if more descriptive examples of how the program runs and what the output is like.
Fortune Hunter gets a lot of grief over HDM, but he backs it up with performance statistics. It was this that got me interested - I found some areas where it looked promising, tried it out, and am very happy using the sheets. You occasionally post a print out of your software - I can see what it does and I don't need anyone's opinions.

Tom

(love these guys!)

ranchwest · 01-12-2002, 12:39 AM

Over fifteen years ago, I wrote a program on a TI-99/4A and gave it to a friend of mine. He kept asking what the numbers meant and I kept trying to tell him that I was still trying to figure it out myself. It was mph compartmentalized by points of call, which would include what we today call turn time except it was expressed in MPH. I didn't know what it was called or what it was for at the time. Had I known, my friend might have thought it was really good software. As it was, he just always had questions for which I didn't have a good answer. I just always told him it was an aid, not something to pick winners.

I sometimes got value out of the numbers myself, but I didn't have a full understanding of how to use them, due in part to the fact that I didn't have a database to analyze the numbers in various situations and in other than a single horse context.

So, PA, you are right. We need to know the specific flaws in products.

NoDayJob · 01-13-2002, 12:15 AM

PA if you have the time and the money my suggestion is you buy it, try it and then tell us what you think about it and/or them. I frankly have better things to do with my time then testing software. I have yet to see any commerically produced software that will win in the long run. If you tell me that no two people use the software in the same way I am going to puke. If judgement is necessary then a racing form, pencil and paper are all you need to handicap the horses. I did it for years long before computers were available. -NDJ

PaceAdvantage · 01-13-2002, 12:56 AM

I think you missed my point NDJ. I was simply requesting that those who come on here and state that so-and-so's software "sucks"....please tell me WHY it sucks....not simply that it sucks.

You stated that Krams software was pure garbage. That tells me nothing. I am someone who has never seen his software. Tell me why it sucked. What was it based on?? How poorly did it perform? How hard was it to install and use?? Get my drift? YOU were the one who stated you used it and it was garbage, not me. I'm simply asking for a little more detail.

Your stance on Kram's software as well as others would gain much more credibility with a little bit more in the way of specific details.

Same would go for those who like to pop up on boards and say "I use so-and-so's program and it rocks!!"

==PA