CC AND THE TRI COWN

[NY BRED]

here is my takeaway from the Derby.

A couple of guys do great breeding analysis and either have a freak
as a result of their expertise and/or luck and have made
a mockery of the myth of spending millions of $$ in an effort to
compete and win Graded races.

It will be interesting to see the impact of this horse at the various
auctions ,especially if he wins the Preakness and gets to compete
in the Belmont.

Based upon the easy win in the Derby, and despite the slow last quarter,
CC"s very well could be the much needed great story of the year for
the thoroughbred world.

In short, we now have a hero for the public who will applaud
this horse and his connections.

[tanner12oz]

Its truly an amazing story and reading it in my am paper I thought to myself this is EXACTLY what racing needs....i would love to see him win at pimlico to at least have a shot

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

here is my takeaway from the Derby.

A couple of guys do great breeding analysis and either have a freak
as a result of their expertise and/or luck and have made
a mockery of the myth of spending millions of $$ in an effort to
compete and win Graded races.

It will be interesting to see the impact of this horse at the various
auctions ,especially if he wins the Preakness and gets to compete
in the Belmont.

Based upon the easy win in the Derby, and despite the slow last quarter,
CC"s very well could be the much needed great story of the year for
the thoroughbred world.

In short, we now have a hero for the public who will applaud
this horse and his connections.

There have always been modestly-bred horses who make good. This is nothing new, and it doesn't change the fact that a buyer's chances of getting a good horse are increased substantially by a horse's breeding and conformation. Nothing will change at the sales.

[SecretAgentMan]

What Coburn & his partner got was very lucky.....the odds of what happened to them is higher than winning the lottery. If Chrome wins the crown, it will make for one heck of a movie & I'm sure people will go out & try to replicate what these guys have done & it won't be able to happen.

What we saw & continue to see is an anomaly that won't be able to be replicated very often, if at all. The best way to try & get your horse to the derby is to genuinely have decent breeding & that costs money & then a good trainer.

Sherman is a great trainer & was given a once in a life time opportunity & it paid off big time.

Baffert almost won the crown with Real Quiet & he was bought cheap as well. He lost by a nose at Belmont. One thing I love about horses is they don't know the value of money, if their pedigree was good & so on.

[PaceAdvantage]

Chrome winning the TC will do little for racing. Everyone always says a great horse will save racing, or help it immensely. Zenyatta was a racing superstar. Loved by many from coast to coast. Appealed to the ULTRA-casual fan and NON-fan...even had her own 60 Minutes piece...

And she didn't do squat for racing in the long run...because here we are, only a few short years after Zenyatta, pining for another "savior..."

It's a myth that a superhorse will save racing.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Chrome winning the TC will do little for racing. Everyone always says a great horse will save racing, or help it immensely. Zenyatta was a racing superstar. Loved by many from coast to coast. Appealed to the ULTRA-casual fan and NON-fan...even had her own 60 Minutes piece...

And she didn't do squat for racing in the long run...because here we are, only a few short years after Zenyatta, pining for another "savior..."

It's a myth that a superhorse will save racing.

It takes a group effort to save this struggling game. The horses have always done their part...but their heroic efforts have always been sabotaged by the callous and selfish nature of the humans.

Pity...

[clocker7]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It takes a group effort to save this struggling game. The horses have always done their part...but their heroic efforts have always been sabotaged by the callous and selfish nature of the humans.

Pity...

Total BS, what dramatics. The proliferation of other forms of legalized gambling has been the bane of the sport. Nothing else is even in the same ballpark.

You could swap every trainer with Mother Teresa, lower the take 2 or 3 percent, and have $1 beer days three times a week, and yet the fans would still continue to pursue other action. The overhead intrinsically makes it a non-competitive betting venue, and the time between races dulls the senses of the modern video-game culture. It's a niche activity and an acquired taste that will appeal to a tiny minority from here on out.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by clocker7

Total BS, what dramatics. The proliferation of other forms of legalized gambling has been the bane of the sport. Nothing else is even in the same ballpark.

You could swap every trainer with Mother Teresa, lower the take 2 or 3 percent, and have $1 beer days three times a week, and yet the fans would still continue to pursue other action. The overhead intrinsically makes it a non-competitive betting venue, and the time between races dulls the senses of the modern video-game culture. It's a niche activity and an acquired taste that will appeal to a tiny minority from here on out.

Sir...I don't know in what capacity you are involved in this game...but I would bet my bottom dollar that you are not a serious bettor. If you WERE a serious bettor...then you would know first-hand that there is no way in the world that a serious horseplayer would EVER give up this game for the mindless gambling games that the casinos have to offer. This comment of yours, that "the proliferation of other forms of legalized gambling has been the bane of the sport", is nothing but a lame excuse...to take away the blame which rightly belongs on the shoulders of the totally incompetent people who are currently running this game.

It is the sad state of the GAME today that has made the serious player turn his back on this game...not the other forms of legalized gambling.

Tell me Mr Horseplayer...which casino game would YOU be willing to trade horseracing for?

When this game is run competently, it is the greatest gambling game in the world...and it fears no competition from other gambling venues.

But when it's run as incompetently and irresponsibly as it's been run today, then it becomes the worst gambling game in existence...and it deserves no customers at all.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by clocker7

Total BS, what dramatics. The proliferation of other forms of legalized gambling has been the bane of the sport. Nothing else is even in the same ballpark.

You could swap every trainer with Mother Teresa, lower the take 2 or 3 percent, and have $1 beer days three times a week, and yet the fans would still continue to pursue other action. The overhead intrinsically makes it a non-competitive betting venue, and the time between races dulls the senses of the modern video-game culture. It's a niche activity and an acquired taste that will appeal to a tiny minority from here on out.

You got me so riled up...I forgot to say what I originally intended to say.

The OVERHEAD is what makes this game a non-competitive betting venue? This argument held water in the pre-slots era, my friend...but it is just another lame excuse today. Do you realize that the mighty CHDN is in the Louisiana courts as we speak...because they are unwilling to invest even 10% of their casino profits to help improve the dilapidated condition of Fairgrounds racetrack? These tracks are ringing up enough casino profits to EASILY make this game competitive with other gambling venues...but they just don't give a shit.

And this other excuse of yours about the time between the races "dulling the senses" REALLY has me puzzled. You do know that we currently have races going off every few minutes...right? Why...we even have races which often go off simultaneously. There is hardly enough time for a horseplayer to make his bets. And you are telling us that this game is too boring?

Talk about BS...

[ArlJim78]

I don't think anyone is likely to give up horse racing for casinos, but casinos with their bright lights and constant action are siphoning off most of the young would-be horseplayers. they never get a chance to know and develop as a horseplayer because they've been drawn to cheap thrills at the casino.

[burnsy]

Its such a complicated deal that both of you make good points. A REAL horseplayer can't even really play those slots, its boring. The same goes for your average slot player.....they don't have the time, will or interest in handicapping a horse race. The numbers are a whole different animal and sports betting is pretty much a monopoly unless you go underground (bookie).

The (illegal) numbers back in the day used to be based on race results and payouts. This was done so everyone in the street knew it was legit and they could look it up in the paper. The formula for the daily number is spelled out in the book Street Corner Society research written by William Whyte when horse racing was a leading sport (late 30's). Everyone that played numbers in Boston or NYC knew how to look it up. So when numbers became legal the state sort of took a chunk of racing with that. That's all racing really is....numbers. Too bad they never got into that legally and of course now that will never happen either. If the results were not printed in the "city" papers back then. The printer would probably be run out of town. Because of the "numbers racket" people would play daily doubles or a certain combo of numbers on horses every day. There is not that "casual betting" interest in horse racing........its gone. So is the coverage. That casual, water cooler talk is what brings mass interest.....gone.

Clocker 7 is right that legalized gaming has taken a bite out of horse racing, you can't deny it. But at the same time as Thaskolos states racing has not done itself any favors and many sports have left horses in the rear view mirror. In the world of sports the derby is almost already forgotten. Mike and Mike mentioned it, so did ESPN but most of the coverage this time of year is NHL and NBA playoffs and baseball season. If this horse wins two more, horse racing maybe in the news for about a week.....maybe? Both are right, its a niche but the horse racing business actually does its best to make that niche smaller. He's also right about the "human" element...its hard to catch a machine cheating but with humans you can't tolerate any BS. If you don't punish severely. Casual people think the whole thing is crooked. 1. Competition. 2. No coverage 3. Bad perception by many in the public. A real trifecta.....that they (Track Mgt.) have taken almost 30 years to admit to and many still won't admit to it.

[SecretAgentMan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Chrome winning the TC will do little for racing. Everyone always says a great horse will save racing, or help it immensely. Zenyatta was a racing superstar. Loved by many from coast to coast. Appealed to the ULTRA-casual fan and NON-fan...even had her own 60 Minutes piece...

And she didn't do squat for racing in the long run...because here we are, only a few short years after Zenyatta, pining for another "savior..."

It's a myth that a superhorse will save racing.

Did Zenyatta win the Kentucky derby or triple crown? The Kentucky derby is the only race the public watches & knows about.. ......



If this horse wins the triple crown it will do tons for horse racing & so will the stories of the people around this horse.

[clocker7]

You'll get an idea how much bite the PETA malarkey really had when the (faux) Woodlawn Vase presentations are made at Pimlico 12 days from now.

Maryland is one of the bluest of the blue states politically, and if all the bigwig politicians are absent from the podium, it probably means that horse racing has become a leper amongst the touchy-feelie set. But, otoh, if they are there, then it means that it was a nothingburger.

We'll find out. What is your guess.

[clocker7]

Originally Posted by burnsy

Its such a complicated deal that both of you make good points. A REAL horseplayer can't even really play those slots, its boring. The same goes for your average slot player.....they don't have the time, will or interest in handicapping a horse race. The numbers are a whole different animal and sports betting is pretty much a monopoly unless you go underground (bookie).

The (illegal) numbers back in the day used to be based on race results and payouts. This was done so everyone in the street knew it was legit and they could look it up in the paper. The formula for the daily number is spelled out in the book Street Corner Society research written by William Whyte when horse racing was a leading sport (late 30's). Everyone that played numbers in Boston or NYC knew how to look it up. So when numbers became legal the state sort of took a chunk of racing with that. That's all racing really is....numbers. Too bad they never got into that legally and of course now that will never happen either. If the results were not printed in the "city" papers back then. The printer would probably be run out of town. Because of the "numbers racket" people would play daily doubles or a certain combo of numbers on horses every day. There is not that "casual betting" interest in horse racing........its gone. So is the coverage. That casual, water cooler talk is what brings mass interest.....gone.

Clocker 7 is right that legalized gaming has taken a bite out of horse racing, you can't deny it. But at the same time as Thaskolos states racing has not done itself any favors and many sports have left horses in the rear view mirror. In the world of sports the derby is almost already forgotten. Mike and Mike mentioned it, so did ESPN but most of the coverage this time of year is NHL and NBA playoffs and baseball season. If this horse wins two more, horse racing maybe in the news for about a week.....maybe? Both are right, its a niche but the horse racing business actually does its best to make that niche smaller. He's also right about the "human" element...its hard to catch a machine cheating but with humans you can't tolerate any BS. If you don't punish severely. Casual people think the whole thing is crooked. 1. Competition. 2. No coverage 3. Bad perception by many in the public. A real trifecta.....that they (Track Mgt.) have taken almost 30 years to admit to and many still won't admit to it.

If you have put that much time into reading the history of the sport, then you must know 1. that racing is cleaner now than it was in its heydays, and 2. that the public perception back then was even worse than it is now. Public attitudes about gambling in general have relaxed greatly; where horse racing can't capitalize on it has to due with all of the other glitzier and less punishing options being out there.

I doubt that a single track operator in the last 10-15 years has been under the illusion that racing will return to the old days anytime soon. They have been active trying ANYTHING to get the bleeding to stop, and to keep the sport on life support. Yes, even trying experiments in cutting the handle in certain spots, which for some reason doesn't seem to build any momentum in that direction.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by clocker7

You'll get an idea how much bite the PETA malarkey really had when the (faux) Woodlawn Vase presentations are made at Pimlico 12 days from now.

Maryland is one of the bluest of the blue states politically, and if all the bigwig politicians are absent from the podium, it probably means that horse racing has become a leper amongst the touchy-feelie set. But, otoh, if they are there, then it means that it was a nothingburger.

We'll find out. What is your guess.

Martin O'Malley pass up an opportunity for national TV exposure - that's funny.