True or false?

[thaskalos]

You are playing blackjack at an Illinois casino, and you find yourself losing $9,500. You take another $5,000 in cash out of your pocket, and you ask the dealer for additional chips.

At this point, a pit boss approaches and informs you that you are not a registered player...and that you have exceeded your loss limit as an "unknown". He asks you for your identification...in order to allow you to keep playing longer. You kindly inform him that you have forgotten to bring identification with you on this particular day.

He confiscates the additional $5,000 cash that you have just taken out of your pocket...and tells you that you will get the money back whenever you return with proper identification.

This obviously doesn't sit well with you...and you tell the man that you would like your $5,000 returned to you, and -- since they don't want you to play any longer -- you'd stop playing for the day and go home.

You are unceremoniously told that you have two options available to you:

Either leave without your $5,000 and come back later with proper identification, in order to get it back...or be arrested on the spot.

True or false?

[lamboguy]

my guess says its true. and thank you once again for the PATRIOT ACT.

on another note, i don't know who went to bed one night and and got up in the middle of the night and came up with the perfect tool for the government to destroy whatever rights were left to the people that live here, and to make sure that this country goes down in flames like a few other great empires before. that's your PATRIOT ACT.

[HUSKER55]

probably true. casinos are a cash business so I would have a hard time imagining them walking away from $5K. since you have done nothing wrong and they don't suspect you of any wrong doing, otherwise they would have detained you for the authorities, which they didn't.

Since you are in illinois there is only one reason this took place. The government wants to know whose taxes to audit and who to fine to pay for the screw ups by BO, meaning who has surplus money. That means they are looking for fresh meat.

Guess who is in the sandwhich?

[elysiantraveller]

True.

They need to run you through the AML (Anti-Money Laundering) Database to make sure you aren't attempting to wash cash. $10k is the limit.

Your bank will do the same thing only difference is they already have your personal information on file and probably recognize you.

Not having your ID is a immediate red flag.

[Greyfox]

If true, then it's very very wrong.

1. Why did the Casino let you play as an unregistered player

2. If anyone takes money that wasn't gambled from a player, that is theft

3. What guarantees are being given that the player will ever get the $5000 back

4. Arrested for what?

The situation is so flawed and unbelievable that it is probably true.

But if this were a Quiz show question I'd say FALSE. ( I do not play cards.)

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

If true, then it's very very wrong.

1. Why did the Casino let you play as an unregistered player

2. If anyone takes money that wasn't gambled from a player, that is theft

3. What guarantees are being given that the player will ever get the $5000 back

4. Arrested for what?

The situation is so flawed and unbelievable that it is probably true.

But if this were a Quiz show question I'd say FALSE. ( I do not play cards.)

I'm not saying I agree with it but...

1. You can play as someone that isn't registered but if you are a registered player they already have your ID information on file and have no reason to bother you... they can just submit the inquiry.

2. Not true. They have to confiscate it just like a gas station has to confiscate your fake ID if you are underage and buying tobacco/alcohol.

3. You will get it back just bring in your ID so they can run a check on your and you will get your money back, assuming OFAC/AML kicks it back clean.

4. I don't know what you would be arrested for... probably the law you are about to break staying on the premise arguing with the staff.

Any Money Service Business (MSB) has to submit to these regulations. Here is why: Say Thask is a terrorist and he has his 10,000 in dirty money that he needs washed. He goes into the casino, exchanges his cash for chips at a window, plays a couple of hands, then heads to a different window to cash out but this time asks for a check....

... money-laundering.

The law is after $10,000 the MSB must submit a AML check. The same applies with your broker, you can't just give him $10,000 in cash, and ask him to buy something with it without being processed but since your broker recognizes you and has your information available already he doesn't bother you with it. He simply takes your money and files the inquiry on his own time.

Not to derail the topic but its pretty wild you need ID to spend $10,000 in cash but don't need one to vote huh?... only in America!

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I'm not saying I agree with it but...

!

Well so far my research into Illinois gambling hasn't uncovered much.

The only articles I can find on the internet say that Illinois does not have a debt loss limit at Casinos.

"Iowa, the first state to legalize riverboat gambling, enforced a loss limit in the beginning but quickly withdrew it when droves of gamblers began crossing the border for the opportunity to bet as much as they wanted at the newly opened casinos in Illinois."

Also, of interest, I found an Illinois Law which states:

"Sec. 28‑8. Gambling losses recoverable.
(a) Any person who by gambling shall lose to any other person, any sum of money or thing of value, amounting to the sum of $50 or more and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may sue for and recover the money or other thing of value, so lost and paid or delivered, in a civil action against the winner thereof, with costs, in the circuit court."

So I suggest the man in question allow himself to be wrongfully arrested and then sue the Casino and police for false arrest and his losses.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You are playing blackjack at an Illinois casino, and you find yourself losing $9,500. You take another $5,000 in cash out of your pocket, and you ask the dealer for additional chips.

At this point, a pit boss approaches and informs you that you are not a registered player...and that you have exceeded your loss limit as an "unknown". He asks you for your identification...in order to allow you to keep playing longer. You kindly inform him that you have forgotten to bring identification with you on this particular day.

He confiscates the additional $5,000 cash that you have just taken out of your pocket...and tells you that you will get the money back whenever you return with proper identification.

This obviously doesn't sit well with you...and you tell the man that you would like your $5,000 returned to you, and -- since they don't want you to play any longer -- you'd stop playing for the day and go home.

You are unceremoniously told that you have two options available to you:

Either leave without your $5,000 and come back later with proper identification, in order to get it back...or be arrested on the spot.

True or false?

As an Illinoisian (and occasional blackjack player) I'm appalled if its true. But I can't imagine not having an ID on me. I imagine the potential 10k threshold can trigger the money laundering inquiries.

Where did you hear this story and what casino does it involve?

[elysiantraveller]

This has NOTHING to do with Illinois State Law or gambling in general. This is Federal Law...

Google the AML.

[iwearpurple]

I understand the AML.

But now, I am curious. What happens at the racetrack when you make a 10,000 bet (which is way out of my range). Do they have to, or should they be, asking for identification.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by iwearpurple

What happens at the racetrack when you make a 10,000 bet .

If at the racetrack and I open my wallet and find $10,000 I'll know that I put on someone else's pants.

[BlueShoe]

First of all, just what the hell is a "registered player?" As a one time serious blackjack player, but only in Nevada, have never seen or heard of the scenario in the OP. As for taking my 5G's, any SOB that tried it would get slugged, and damn the consequences. The casino bosses or casino security are not LE, and their powers of arrest and detainment are very limited, although they will bluff and intimidate patrons into believing that they have that right. Except for clear violations of money statutes, they cannot even lawfully ask for id, and most surely cannot legally "backroom" you, ie, arrest, restrain, and hold you. There have been many lawsuits won over the years, with the casinos the loser, awarded to card counters and others that have been subjected to rough treatment by the clubs.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Great thread and topics within. Let it grow.

[Dahoss2002]

At the local casinos here in Louisiana, you have to provide identification if you exceed 10 k "buy-in" in a single day. There is no confiscating of the money if you try to exceed the limit, you just cannot buy-in for more until identification is provided.

[horses4courses]

Confiscation of cash would be a gaming violation in Nevada.
The casino has no right to do that out here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_31_casinos

http://title31.blogspot.com/


In Nevada, the pit boss has two courses of action.
At $9500 cash in, he can take an additional $500 in play from you before refusing your action. Over $10K, you must supply a current form of government issued ID, and you must sign a W-9 stating that any S/S # you supply is valid, in order to continue playing.
Failure to do so will have you barred from further play in that establishment.
The second action he can take (without your knowledge) is completing a SARC form on you, should he think that your withholding of info is suspicious. It's an anti-money laundering device which was beefed up after 9-11.

I don't know what the procedures are in Illinois, but confiscating cash sounds illegal to me, no matter where you are.