Vet scratches

[sammy the sage]

Will you bet a horse after a recent VET scratch?

1 week, 2 week, ect...

or does THAT depend on trainer and class as well?

Getting info about why/reason FOR is damn near impossible for average better?

[lamboguy]

that's the greatest angle in the history of this game. if i was going to bet a horse before i knew of the vet scratch for $100, when i find out its a vet scratch i double up the bet to $200

[Robert Goren]

I have discovered if it is listed at the bottom of Bris PPs , it is not wise to bet it. I am not sure what their cut off date is.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Will you bet a horse after a recent VET scratch?

1 week, 2 week, ect...

or does THAT depend on trainer and class as well?

Getting info about why/reason FOR is damn near impossible for average better?

I think (as in, I personally think) you have to have some sort of actual knowledge of why the horse was a vet scratch - what kind of vet scratch - to even consider making it a factor. If you watched the horse get scratched in the post parade or know that it was scratched during some standard pre-race day barn check, then that's something. If you're betting a track where a trainer can't just scratch because he doesn't want to run or can't fill out a card using another legit reason (part of entry, stake, etc...), I tend to think you are taking a leap of faith to assume that just because a vet signed the scratch card, making it a vet scratch, that there is reason to be concerned when the horse does run next.

Even those horses that are actual, legit vet scratches - I'd be surprised if the vast majority aren't just trivial maladies that preclude competition either because it will take maybe a day or so to get back or because the treatment includes a drug that would be administered too close to race time for the horse to compete without sweating it out - off feed, fever, tied up, colic - I bet these four alone comprise an amazing percentage of vet scratches at a lot of places. In the case of the latter two even though it may have happened a day or two ago and the horse may be okay to run today, if they were treated with the standard actors (banamine, acepromazine, maybe methocarbamol, etc.), the decision to vet scratch may be just a matter of medication too close to the race.

If you really want to get into the nuts and bolts of using the information, I guess I sort of think you have to be somewhat aware of the protocol at the jurisdiction. If the horse is entered right back after a scratch (shortly after coming off the "jail" for missing days or entry days for making a list) and there is no work in the interim, then it was probably not the kind of vet scratch you need to get too excited over at many places. If the horse has a work, especially if it is a half-mile or beyond, then maybe you can read a bit between the lines that he was scratched because of an injury and had to work in front of the track vet to his/her satisfaction to get off the list.

A lot of possibilities in this scenario and there isn't a one-size fits all approach to every track and circumstance in my opinion. Then again, there may be stats from a database that suggest some clear pattern, but I'd be fairly shocked if there was a discernible approach to dealing with the simple matter of seeing that the horse was a vet scratch on the scratch board in the PPs or at EQB across the board in the grand context of all thoroughbred racing.

[Robert Goren]

I guess it goes back to the old adage "when in doubt, pass the race"

[BlueShoe]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Will you bet a horse after a recent VET scratch?

No, if the horse is listed in the DRF as having been a vet scratch since it's last race and before today's race it is an automatic toss for me, no exceptions. Do not attempt to make judgement exceptions on this issue, such as good recent works or some other factor that might indicate the runner is fine today. Sure, a few of these types win, but sure seem to avoid a bunch of losers by passing these runners. Short priced favorites making suspicious class drops after a vet scratch seem particularly vulnerable, and often offers value in other choices.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by BlueShoe

No, if the horse is listed in the DRF as having been a vet scratch since it's last race and before today's race it is an automatic toss for me, no exceptions. Do not attempt to make judgement exceptions on this issue, such as good recent works or some other factor that might indicate the runner is fine today. Sure, a few of these types win, but sure seem to avoid a bunch of losers by passing these runners. Short priced favorites making suspicious class drops after a vet scratch seem particularly vulnerable, and often offers value in other choices.

Add a bullet WO after the scratch and you get a question mark(bad) the size of Mount Everest.

[turninforhome10]

Be wary, sometimes a late vet scratch can be nothing more than a owner not wanting to loose the horse, and finding out that someone maybe interested in the horse can cause and owner to tell the trainer to scratch.
We dropped a slip one time only to have the horse scratched at the gate.
It can also signal to me that a trainer might find the race to tough and wait til next time after the competition softens up.

[Stillriledup]

If a horse is 3-5 and off a vet scratch, i might hold the scratch against that runner more than i'll hold it against a 20-1 shot.

[mountainman]

Legit vet scratches are never good news, but so many vets will lie nowadays for trainers that deem the spot too tough. Even reputable vets who make rounds at the track will supply fake excuses for horsemen they earn from. And ship-in trainers can easily procure an out from private vets stationed god knows where-the kind who rarely even deal with racehorses.

In either case, the excuse is ALWAYS the same: "bout of colic, treated with banamine." That's because once a horse has been drugged, the stewards can no longer insist that the animal compete as scheduled.

Tons of horses, however, get scratched because their races come up tough. Or, more insidiously, because they were entered just to make the race go-
which is a topic thoroughly covered in an archived blog entry of mine entitled "superman never scratches."

Unlike a scratch, the true reason for which can be unclear, skipping a race that seemed to fit a horse's schedule and agenda is more often ominous. I recommend keeping a condition book and checking charts to see if a horse's race filled after a suitable number of days had elapsed since its last start. Possible reasons for a horse not popping up in a seemingly appropriate spot might be a planned change in distance, getting excluded because the race overfilled, or impending eligibility for an easier race.

In addition, some outfits-usually high percentage that avoid losing at all costs-are very prone to scratching. We keep a tally of their "transgressions" in the racing office and consider that a factor when deciding whether to use a short field.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Legit vet scratches are never good news, but so many vets will lie nowadays for trainers that deem the spot too tough. Even reputable vets who make rounds at the track will supply fake excuses for horsemen they earn from. And ship-in trainers can easily procure an out from private vets stationed god knows where-the kind who rarely even deal with racehorses.

In either case, the excuse is ALWAYS the same: "bout of colic, treated with banamine." That's because once a horse has been drugged, the stewards can no longer insist that the animal compete as scheduled.

Tons of horses, however, get scratched because their races come up tough. Or, more insidiously, because they were entered just to make the race go-
which is a topic thoroughly covered in an archived blog entry of mine entitled "superman never scratches."

Unlike a scratch, the true reason for which can be unclear, skipping a race that seemed to fit a horse's schedule and agenda is more often ominous. I recommend keeping a condition book and checking charts to see if a horse's race filled after a suitable number of days had elapsed since its last start. Possible reasons for a horse not popping up in a seemingly appropriate spot might be a planned change in distance, getting excluded because the race overfilled, or impending eligibility for an easier race.

In addition, some outfits-usually high percentage that avoid losing at all costs-are very prone to scratching. We keep a tally of their "transgressions" in the racing office and consider that a factor when deciding whether to use a short field.

Good post Mark.

Racetracks have no incentive to play 'hardball' with trainers, they need these guys to help them out on occasion, there's absolutely no reason to create enemies by playing hardball and telling trainers you have to run here and you have to run there.

Just part of the game, the part where trainers have a lot more power than maybe they should have.

[classhandicapper]

I never checked it statistically, but a late gate scratch (without an incident to prompt it) is probably a pretty negative sign about the horse.

[Tom]

Why would a race track care about its customers?

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I never checked it statistically, but a late gate scratch (without an incident to prompt it) is probably a pretty negative sign about the horse.

Unless insider trading say's the horse has a claim slip dropped. Laugh if you want to but having trained and played the claiming game it can happen.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainman

...(Rant on scratches)...

If I knew you'd be by to lay it all out in plain english, I wouldn't have wasted four paragraphs trying to be all diplomatic in my word choice and sentence structure. God luv ya!!!!