Playing GP instead of SA?

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by DeanT

I have to start keeping a list. Let me write that down to remember. So far this meet I have takeout, the scratch rules in FL and the timer. Lord knows I prolly missed some things already.

The problem is that so many problems exist. I don't think he's criticizing you or HANA for not fixing them, he's just noting something that's been broken for a long time. It's something they should have fixed a long time ago.

The good news for all tracks, it's a target rich environment for making improvements! Increasing customer satisfaction should be a cinch.

[DeanT]

It'd be great if we had some sort of full time people to get to all the problems from our perspective as players. We're just up against so much. Horsemen groups get piles of cash from slots, for example, sometimes millions a year to lobby for their issues. Breeders get something like 2% of handle up here, or a share of slots or something for theirs. Someone posted on the PR recently about the battle going on - the "CHRB has a $12M budget and HANA has 12 cents".

People like CJ, me, you, Roger, Jeff and all the other players out there who make up such a big part of the sport have to scratch and claw in our free time. It is what it is I guess. Just keep plugging.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

The problem is that so many problems exist. I don't think he's criticizing you or HANA for not fixing them, he's just noting something that's been broken for a long time. It's something they should have fixed a long time ago.

The good news for all tracks, it's a target rich environment for making improvements! Increasing customer satisfaction should be a cinch.

Dean, I am absolutely not criticizing HANA here and if I had I would take it back after what you say. There still is a confusion about the tri rates as the DRF I had today listed them at 26% after being 25% last year, though Mr Ritvo from Magna told Mr. Pricci that they hadn't changed so who knows what's going on as I've not been able to find the rates anywhere on the GP site.

As for the NYRA extra percent from the OTB fiasco, that's a question I keep meaning to ask. It shouldn't be avoided as it is a good one.

CJ nailed here though. SA was easy because of how bad it was to start with, but if takeout increases are wrong, then they are wrong even when the rest of the product is good.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

There still is a confusion about the tri rates as the DRF I had today listed them at 26% after being 25% last year, though Mr Ritvo from Magna told Mr. Pricci that they hadn't changed so who knows what's going on as I've not been able to find the rates anywhere on the GP site.

I dont take it that way Al re: HANA.

It's problem #55 - takeout rates being published. It took BillW hundreds of hours to scour to find takeout rates for our HANA list we publish, and sometimes the sources he first found were so out of date (some of the rates published on the web we found were five years old that we had to correct when we found out via simo contract). As I understand it, GP (not telling anyone of course, which tends to be par for the course) upped the tri take last year (I do not think Ritvo was there). We did not know about it.

I am still not 100% sure what the exact rates were last year, as now my inbox says the pick 6 take was 20%, not 15%. But I will try and get a simo contract and check.

One thing we are asking is for all tracks, as a good business practice, publish their rates on the web, and if they change them they release it. GP is amenable to doing that going forward.

With GP, from what I have been told, they think blended take will be down this meet. But like I said, we will look at that more closely in a month or so and see what we can find out when handle numbers are weighted averaged.

[toussaud]

This is extremely sily


I don't bet exotics, i'm old school lol. But if I did, I would have absolutely no problem with GP's 26% rake, they have freaking 14 horses in every field.

The issue with Santa Anita is not just the takeout.. but raising the takeout when you are offering a piss poor product to begin with, that's the underlying issue here, not just the takeout in itself.



Today, gulfstream park ran 10 races. 9 of them had fields of at least 10 horses, and the one that didn't had 9. You know what, when you offer me that type of value, I'll concede a small hike in rake. You have done your job and then some as a track.


Santa Anita on the other hand, ran 9 races did not offer 1 race, with more than 8 horses. And only 1 with 8. On a freaking Sunday.


You can't possibly compare the two and if you are, you are just simply trying to prove a point and you dont' care about the reality of making money.





Stop playing with words and sending out half truths to make a point.

[OTM Al]

Sometimes I think, as I read comments on the web or walk around the track, that we as players get exactly what we deserve.

[peislander]

Dean,

Add to list of questions, what happen to their youtube page for replays which has not been updated all year?

[cj]

Originally Posted by toussaud

This is extremely sily

I don't care if they run 100 horse fields, 26% is ridiculous.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by cj

I don't care if they run 100 horse fields, 26% is ridiculous.

Agree,you have to be pretty desperate to bet into a 26% take.

[magwell]

Originally Posted by jelly

Agree,you have to be pretty desperate to bet into a 26% take.

...Most people at the track have no idea what a 26% take means not a clue, ask some time when your in line it could be 36% it don't matter to the squares it never did.....

[cj]

Originally Posted by magwell

...Most people at the track have no idea what a 26% take means not a clue, ask some time when your in line it could be 36% it don't matter to the squares it never did.....

Yes, but they run out of money.

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by cj

I'll probably get killed for this, but is NYRA working to rescind the "OTB" takeout raise now that there is no OTB? We were told all along they didn't want it.

Originally Posted by OTM AL

As for the NYRA extra percent from the OTB fiasco, that's a question I keep meaning to ask. It shouldn't be avoided as it is a good one.

The “1% OTB takeout increase” expired on September 15, 2010. (The law was written with a "sunset" provision.) The new takeout rates ranges for NYRA are 12-17% for regular bets (WPS), 14-21% for multiple bets (exactas and DD), 15-25% for exotics (P3, P4, tri and super) and 15-36% for super exotics (P6) regardless of whether there is a carryover or not.

NYRA can ask the NYSRWB for takeout rates within those ranges. As far as I know, NYRA has not asked for any changes. (Of course, that is not saying much because I have no connection to NYRA or the NYSRWB.)

Here is a link to the applicable statute:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LA...7+&TARGET=VIEW

For those interested here is the applicable wording of the same statute in effect prior to September 15, 2010 which went into effect in September 2008.

§238. Disposition of pari-mutuel pools of the franchised corporation; percentage payable to state as a tax; authority of counties or certain cities to impose a tax. 1. * (a) The franchised corporation authorized under this chapter to conduct pari-mutuel betting at a race meeting or races run thereat shall distribute all sums deposited in any pari-mutuel pool to the holders of winning tickets therein, provided such tickets be presented for payment before April first of the year following the year of their purchase, less an amount which shall be established and retained by such franchised corporation of between sixteen to seventeen per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track regular bets, and eighteen and one-half to twenty-one per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track multiple bets and twenty-six per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track exotic bets and sixteen to thirty-six per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track super exotic bets, and twenty-six to thirty-six per centum when such on-track super exotic betting pools are carried forward, plus the breaks…..


So NYRA doesn't need to fight to rescind the 1% as it has already been rescinded.

[toussaud]

Originally Posted by jelly

Agree,you have to be pretty desperate to bet into a 26% take.

You will make more money betting into a 13 horse field with a 26% takeout than you will in a 6 horse field with a 22% takeout.

Don't mistake what I am saying with agreeing with the hike. I don't. But with that said, their job is to give the horse players an opportunity to turn a profit. GP does that, even with the takeout being what it is. SA's exotics, you really are an idiot if you are playing those unless you have some serious, serious advantages.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by toussaud

You will make more money betting into a 13 horse field with a 26% takeout than you will in a 6 horse field with a 22% takeout.

Don't mistake what I am saying with agreeing with the hike. I don't. But with that said, their job is to give the horse players an opportunity to turn a profit. GP does that, even with the takeout being what it is. SA's exotics, you really are an idiot if you are playing those unless you have some serious, serious advantages.

I think what you mean to say is that there are possibly more value combos available in a 13 horse field with 26% takeout than a 6 horse field with a 22% takeout. However, if $100,000 is wagered on both, an extra $4,000 is taken out of circulation in the bigger takeout scenario...not only that, but many times the IRS takes some money out of circulation due to the larger payouts 13 horse fields brings.
The 22% takeout scenario definitely has more churn associated with it, as big hits create a lot less short term hits as well.

[toussaud]

yes you are correct. I am well aware of that.

I understand, you are taking money out of my pocket by raising the takeout. I, 10000% get that. But, in that scenerio, it's still the lesser of two evils when it comes to playing Santa Anitas, 5 horse 22% takeout exacta.

Building websites is my trade. I build alot of ecommerce websites, and when the merchant decides they want to raise the transaction rate, it takes money out of everyone's pockets. But at the end of the day, that's just one part of the equation. Would you rather pay 2.59% at say, Wells Fargo and be worry free that you are going to get your deposits in 3 business days come rain, sleet hail or snow,or would you rather pay 2.35% to paypal and have to worry every time an overseas order comes in or every time tranaction above the avg amount you take in, is going to freeze your account?

The rake is just part of the equation, and while, I don't at all agree with 26%.. basically that's 260 dollars of a 1000 wager, that's too much. But still, money is there to be made. I am sure in the future they will drop the rate, they are very bettor friendly, but in the mean time, there is no question as to which offers more value.

SA would have to drop their exotic rate well into the teens for it to be comparable to what you can do at gulfstream.