Changing leads
 

I need some info on when a horse changes lead. What I want to know is if they do it on their own or does the jockey make it happen?

(:)a google) =some videos and a little write up

https://www.westpointtb.com/news-and...nges-explained

Excellent link Playa. I've always known the jockey can signal to the horse to change leads, but the author infers that the horse can be trained to change on its own.

it often relates to infirmity. even worse is when a horse switches back and forth in the stretch. ouch,

I've noticed sharp, game and otherwise good horses do this in the stretch of turf races, esp. At gulf, could be the hard surface stinging their feet so they keep switching. I see it more on turf than on dirt.

Very good link, thanks. I was never clear on the order of the feet. I will watch more closely from now on.

Have you seen Sparkle Slew run yet, Mark?


In this race she appears obstinate to me. Possibly she is hurting? I can't tell here and have not followed her back from this race. I'm interested in your opinion, then I will go look up her more recent history. My note says "may move up easily when she learns to switch leads".

To me, it is vital to take notes on exactly how and when every horse changes leads in the entire race (not just the stretch).

Watch that race video and tell me what you think. I don't see a problem until the turn home.

When I read mountainman's comment it made me think of this one. She seemed more interested in something on the grandstand side. I stopped following after this performance in October. I'm going to look her up this morning to see what the next couple outings look like and report back.

The posted video is from Dec 14, 2016 NOT October like I said before. Here is the chart.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/char...16&cy=USA&rn=9

Laid off after this race until Feb 2 and comes back for two in 15 days always at 5K claim. Feb 2 4th place, 5 path 3/16 faded late. Feb 17 2nd place, 2 lgth lead at stretch call, lost by 1 3/4
http://www.equibase.com/premium/char...17&cy=USA&rn=9

http://www.equibase.com/premium/char...17&cy=USA&rn=3

I'm looking for this one to ship into my backyard in a few weeks. I don't want to miss on a class jumper who looks much the best and may win big when prompted properly. I will review video when I fire up the ADW in a couple of hours.

Anyone following please add your comments. Help ole' Murph fill out his condition book for the upcoming Indiana Grand meeting. (I need to crush it early):coffee:

BTW If you have time, would you look at that Sparkle Slew race posted in the Changing Leads thread? (JK*.5)

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...29&postcount=7 I see the horse switch to her right ( correct )lead at 1:18 which was very late. And as you can see, that is exactly when the horse starts to draw away. I try and liken it to a boxer only using one arm to throw punches. That arm gets pretty tired if it's the only one doing the work. Using both provides more stamina as well as balance and lessens muscle fatigue in one certain area. Nothing worse than playing a speed horse that is still clear at the 1/8th pole but on the wrong lead. You just know it probably will not end as well as it should. Sometimes they hang on, but more times than not, the get nailed.
Horses that run counter clockwise like the U.S. does are taught to run down straightaways on their right lead and around turns on their left lead. This is one of the first things they learn months before coming to the track.
It is true that sometimes the older horse won't switch because it might be a comfort, or lack of comfort thing going on. That is seen more in cheaper racing venues with older horses usually but not always. Switching back and forth can be a comfort thing as well. Or, on turf, mud or slop, or a cuppy sandy track, basically a surface they are struggling with, it can be that they are not comfortable with the footing and don't trust it. So they switch to find more solid footing. It really depends on too many things to say it's only one or two things.

When you see a maiden not switching, it can be that the horse is or has developed a bad habit. That habit is VERY hard to break. Some cheap speeds get so mentally stressed out that when pressured, they can't seem to remember to switch. But if that same horse has a comfortable lead as it turns for home, they might very well switch on that occasion.
Some still just will not switch period. And while that cheapens all horses because they can never reach their potential , they are not always cheaper horses.
Lite The Fuse hated to switch leads. Rarely if ever did. He was a hell of a horse even without doing so . Think how good he would have been had he switched turning for home. His offspring rarely did either which IMO is why he threw mostly cheap one dimensional speed horses.
Knowing a track that you play well and knowing the horses that do not switch can really make throwing speed out much easier. If it looks like a duel they will most probably fail. But if they are a type that WILL switch if left alone turning for home, and the pace suggests the horse will be clear at that spot, you can decide if it is worth the gamble to play the horse in hope of the horse switching.
It's homework yes. But it is knowledge that most you are playing against do not have. Therefore, too me, it's worth it both to use the horse and to not use the horse depending on the situation.

Lastly, jocks trying to MAKE a horse switch can work but honestly, it does not work all that often even if the rider is successful. If it's discomfort, they just made it worse. If it's stubborn, the horse probably does not appreciate it. I get why they try, but in my experience, you really need the horse to want to do it to have your best shot at success. Now if they just need a subtle reminder, a very slight weight shift or a light tap on the other shoulder with the stick turned down can do the trick. But again, life is good when they just do it themselves and it's never easy when they don't for whatever reason.
Hope that helps.




http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...ser_online.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...een/report.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...green/edit.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...reen/quote.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...eply_small.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...iquote_off.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/i...quickreply.gif

1) I don't follow Turfway at all or that horse so please allow me to pick a NYRA horse and discuss changing leads...

2) Da Wildcat Girl.... On Jan 29th she was bet OFF the board. She was beaten by a Perfect Trip better horse BUT went back to the wrong lead late and flattened out at the wire. In her race prior, she won and changed leads well (and to the wire). That made her, to me an absolute throwout in her next start (from the win spot). She went off at 2/1 and was 1 of 2 closers in a speed packed race. She had the race won but when she did, she went back to the wrong lead and blew the race.

It's important to know how/and if a horse changes leads in races. If the horse normally does but today didn't, I am super concerned next time out.

If a horse always doesn't change leads, then the PPs you see are what you see.

Hope that helps. If you want to see the replays, they are :

Dec 4th 8th race, PP 8 of 9 (win)
Jan 29th 5th race, the rail of 6 (hang job with change to incorrect lead late)
Feb 17th 6th race, PP 2 of 6, (back to incorrect lead and spits it out).

Once again, if a horse changes leads well but then goes back to the wrong lead (if they don't normally do that) shows me that they can't complete the stretch run on that lead.

Problem....

How is the change of leads accomplished...? Does the horse have both front legs in the air at one time during which the flip is made...? Or is there some subtle shuffle that takes place...is a right lead defined by the right hoof being in front when it touches the ground...? Do the rear legs ever change "leads"...

Changing leads has always been difficult for me also. Maybe, it's because I've always been focusing on other things during a race. It sounds like it helps with a horse's balance during the race.

When curious about something .... resort to Google, maybe this short article will help.


https://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ng-leads/?_r=0

I dare any of you to stand up. Start hopping on one leg. You will need to change over to the other leg to keep the best action going. Same with horses.

On the turn, if a horse runs on the incorrect lead, it will hurt their ability to stay closer to the rail...

Picture making a sharp left while driving but your tires are pointing outward. Less force and distribution but you're going outward.

I even check for what lead horses are on , on the backstretch and in turf chutes.

More parts of the puzzle you uncover the better.

There are a variety of ways and reasons runners change leads. I need to be better at finding and using these subtle but powerful indicators so I can compete with wagering warriors who use these tools as sharpened swords. My old take on a positive lead change was like the porn judge who said "I know it when I see it."

Many current posters have previously weighed in on this subject. Check out the new "tag" at the bottom of this thread. It's a nice example of the gold mine of information were are sitting on here for anyone to dig into.

Lots of people can talk about a horse changing leads and it can be noticed when it happens...but the exact mechanics of the swap remains a mystery to me...some have said there is a slight studder step (what is that?) involved...but really I think it is just which hoof the horse reaches the farthest out with at any given time...would appreciat some slow motion video on this that shows what exactly is going on...it is interesting that trainers can train the horses to to it...the jockey lets the horse know when sometimes...are there any experts out there who can tell us more...?

I will try and help you.

Horses run with one leg extended and one leg for support. Trainers do not teach that. That is how they run. There is no playing with that.
But... because they were made to run in open space and we have them run on ovals, they need to use the inside( left) leg to go around left handed turns turns. Therefore, they use the outside leg to lead on the straightaways.
If you cannot see this switch happen in any replay, google a barrel event or cutting horse video. They go around very sharp turns. You will see them use their inside leg as the lead leg no matter what direction they go in.

You need to watch the legs ONLY of any horse in any race that you can see.
Do not watch anything else.
Most will switch just as they start to straighten away turning for home.
they will slide about 2-3 feet to the right as they turn for home.
This switching is what causes horses to check out of inside positions just before turns. More on that later.
Once you see this, try it on yourself. You will look like a total tool box so do it alone. For everyone's sake Lol.
Do it on carpet if you can.
check your footprints.
You will notice that your running line shifts by the width of you body because your legs are on the outer edges of your torso.
Same with horses which is why a horse inside with a small hole will have that hole close up when the horses in front switch.
Once you see it, it will start to make sense.
At that point, ask another question that I can help you with.
Hope that helps for starters.

Watch which hind leg strikes the ground first. If it's the left, the horse is on the right lead, and visa versa. This is MUCH easier than trying to discern which front leg is extending.

Runners that switch late , don't switch at all, or worse, switch back and forth, may have physical issues.

This is what a closer look thru the lifetime PP's reveal about Sparkle Slew. When this happens there is something making her uncomfortable physically. My question for mountainman was kind of redundant. He's spoken on the subject before and I have plenty of information available to make the correct judgement on this one.

What we all receive now is an excellent tip on how to watch for the lead change in action! I have not heard this before about a thoroughbred stride but this is the same way I watch standardbreds run in gait. The rear legs show better when the runner is struggling to keep on stride.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-work-in-ocala

RE: Classic Empire
"The Pioneerof the Nile colt has refused to breeze twice since being scratched Feb. 19 from the March 4 Xpressbet.com Fountain of Youth Stakes (G2) due to a hoof abscess."

Hoof abcess or any foot ailment seems like as good a reason as any for a runner to not change leads properly. I only know of these kind of issues when it's media reported for a stakes level horse.

Makes me want to ask how many on a typical card go to the gate within 30 days or so of being treated for hoof ailments. I expect it is very common but I don't know. Most runners appear to change instinctively when in top form. Recovery from those type of injuries might explain some form reversal and layoff winners!

Very smart.
I thought I was beginning to be an expert on lead changes, a few years ago, and someone sent me a private message regarding a highly regarded horse who had just won a triple crown prep. The horse hadn't changed leads in a part of the race I wasn't scouting.
Not only did the horse then disappear from the Triple Crown Trail, he showed up months later and lost a couple races as a heavy favorite.
Eventually, he did win a big stakes race the following year.

Always something to learn. Always potential for seeing something valuable.

Before this thread l have always tried to look at the front legs but could never catch it. This helps thanks.

I'd have thought this would be something that just comes naturally after watching enough races.

Of course, lead changes are not as evident in the headon view.

Slow-motion horse
 

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...9&action=click

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...700c422c48269e

Slow-motion horse Delta Downs
 

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...b8&action=view

At 6:25 in the video the horse is running on his left lead from the turn, then at 6:30 he switches to right lead...watch the rear hoofs, right rear down first equals left lead, then left rear down first equals right lead..

One of the most famous examples of refusing to change leads is below. Probably cost Firing Line the Derby. Showed he had some health issues. Stevens confirmed in an interview after the race the horse stayed on one lead the whole race. He compared it to carrying a suitcase in one hand for a mile and a quarter without changing hands. Ran up the track in the Preakness - he should have never been in that race given his stretch run in the Derby. Tried to make a comeback but was never the same horse and had to be retired. Soft tissue injury. At lower level claiming races, you see horses refusing to change leads all the time and sometimes they can get away it. If you see it at the stakes level, big red flag. Regardless, you need to watch for it.

Some famous lead switchers include Strike The .gold in the Derby, I believe he switched leads W 70 yards remaining in the race.

Alydar didn't switch leads in his battles w affirmed, probably cost him at least one of those races, Strike the gold has Alydar blood lines, maybe lead switching hereditary?

Fun fact was that Ruffian (the horse, not the poster!) was usually on the wrong lead too, I'm not sure if she ever switched leads in the stretch.

I find myself on the wrong lead from time to time.
Happens to the best of us.

Hi everyone! Sorry to jump in as a stranger (unless you happen to know me as Flute from thoroughbredchampions lol but I hardly post there anymore), but I thought I might add a little more to the technical explanation of this, in case anyone was really THAT curious.

When a horse gallops, they are starting their stride by pushing off with one hind foot, then they move to the other hind foot, and the diagonally opposite front foot, followed lastly by the other front foot (that would be the "lead" that people tend to look at). I would Google "horse gallop foot falls" if you really want to see this visually, there are good diagrams out there that show the "Z" shape. After they move off that final front foot, there is a period of time in the stride where they are completely off the ground (this is also called the "gathering" stage of the stride). This little horse below is demonstrating that part of the stride quite nicely.

This gathering part of the stride is where the horse changes his lead, and he simply switches to pushing off with the other hind foot at that point and then reverses the foot falls. This is something they do naturally in the wild, every horse knows how to do it even though some are more adept at it than others. It happens right in stride, there is no stutterstep or other kind of hesitation that would change the forward momentum of the horse unless they are doing something REALLY weird, and I wouldn't imagine they would finish out the race well in that case.

Ok, back to lurking and fiddling with my little handicapping program (I'm a web/python dev), nice to meet you all. :)

Welcome aboard to PaceAdvantage website...hoping you post often...thank you for elucidating the "lead change" phenomenon....so is it the case that the lead change is controlled by the hind legs switching while "airing"...? Could the lead change be effected also by the front legs switching while airing as well...? What you say does makes some sense but since the air time is just under human observation limits, we can only see the after- effects of the switch...we see THAT a horse HAS changed leads, but we are unable to observe the actual switch while the horse is " airing"...

Well, consider yourself fortunate because I don't think it comes naturally and I've watched a bunch of races.

Actually, Mountainman's suggestion is going to help me a lot because I also was focusing on the horse's front legs.

Thanks for the info. And, let me be one of the first to say welcome.

Your input was great.

Btw, what happened to the jock in the picture?

Hi, Vigors! Thanks for the welcome :) The front legs and the hind legs both need to switch, but the hind legs definitely drive the situation...here is a youtube video of a horse doing something called "one tempi" and "two tempi" changes in Dressage at a canter, which is a slower pace than a racehorse but the mechanics are basically the same as a racehorse gallop. The view from the front where it looks like the horse is skipping is "one tempi" (a lead change every single stride), and the next one that you can see better from the side is "two tempi" (a lead change every other stride, I think you can see better that she is pushing with the hind legs and the fronts are just following).


I can try to find a better video if that one doesn't help, I just did a quick search and grabbed the first decent one.

Thank you! Glad to be here :)

I tried to go back and do a reverse image search on Google to find out the story, and all they said was the jock fell off at the gate but wasn't injured and the horse ran back a week later and won. It was Arabian racing, which I don't follow, I just did an image search on Google and grabbed a good pic.

http://www.resolutefarmsracing.com/c...ut_jockey.html

Bow Town Cat AQU RACE 2 tomorrow.

Crazy with leads, especially 3 back (Dec 9th) on backstretch. Watch last 3 dirt races.

Wrong lead on backstretch in last. Probably cost him race in the lane.

Yep.

Ran nails that day.

Another tough loss was Declaration of War in the BC Classic in 2013. Incredible stretch run battle with eventual winner Mucho Macho Man and Will Take Charge. DOC never changed leads, got pinched a bit, but still finished strong for an unappetizing 3rd. :pout: . The old woulda, coulda, shoulda.

:) Welcome my Chicago friend

Up the creek, dancing on the wrong lead as the fav. :lol:

An obvious throw out today, HA HA HA

I have never paid close attention to the lead change going into the turn, instead looking for acceleration or traffic trouble on the turn. BTC's past races help me see this move a bit better.

It's hard to see the leg action thru the rail and other runners so I watch for movers and for my bet to be clear into the stretch. You certainly give me some food for thought when I am watching replays now. If I keep at it I may have a couple of sharpened tools to add to the box.