Turning Poker Players Into Horseplayers

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Nick Coukos, who runs Ajax downs in Ontario, is a pro poker player. He just won a 15k tourney in Vegas. Anyway, he thinks by putting poker rooms into tracks, more horseplayers will be created.

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/4-23-10/turning-poker-players-horseplayers.html

Sadly, the fact that horse racing has such a high takeout was not mentioned, nor was the fact that there are visible winners at poker in the long run.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I saw that earlier this morning and LOL'ed at it.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I saw that earlier this morning and LOL'ed at it.
Coukos said it is working in the States. Many players look at the TV monitors between hands....

Not sure what is working in the States though. Handle is down everywhere. Is it up at tracks that have poker rooms?

[Robert Goren]

I saw that earlier this morning and LOL'ed at it.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Horse players may play poker, the reverse is not true. If there one type of gamblers that you might get to become a horse player, it would be day traders. JMO

[tzipi]

Not really. I would love if that was true, but that seems really off.

[Bruddah]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Horse players may play poker, the reverse is not true. If there one type of gamblers that you might get to become a horse player, it would be day traders. JMO

Poker Rooms at race tracks is a good idea and should be expanded upon. I believe this will be borne out in Florida. Those Thoroughbred tracks will be able to play 24/7 with an unlimited (all in) betting structure by July 1, 2010.

(JMHO)

[Hajck Hillstrom]

It's not like they don't have the room....

[badcompany]

Most poker players are degenerate gamblers. I'm sure they'd put some $$ through the windows.

[Dahoss9698]

Anyone that has been to a track with a poker room, knows this idea will never work. I can only speak to Tampa Bay and Gulfstream, but where there were poker tables, there were few TV's and good luck getting a bet in on a horse race.

[newtothegame]

Most poker players are degenerate gamblers. I'm sure they'd put some $$ through the windows.

Sorry there bad but I have to disagree with this one. Poker players (pros) make a living at their sport just like any other pro. Now the average GAMBLER who plays poker once in a while I can agree with. but then again, the same can be said for MOST people who frequent the track. From what I have seen here...and at the FG, most horse players are gambling and losing.

The difference I tghink is that in poker, you have a bit more control of the game. Example..."I have cards...I have decisions...and I am not fighting a large takeout"...along with many other reasons. Not too mention, its much easier to blame yourself for poker loses versus...a jockey, a trainer...drugs...cheating....weather...etc etc. I know who to blame if I lose in poker lol. From what I have read here...alot of people arent sure who to blame for their losses.

[ernie simons]

Sorry there bad but I have to disagree with this one. Poker players (pros) make a living at their sport just like any other pro. Now the average GAMBLER who plays poker once in a while I can agree with. but then again, the same can be said for MOST people who frequent the track. From what I have seen here...and at the FG, most horse players are gambling and losing.

The difference I tghink is that in poker, you have a bit more control of the game. Example..."I have cards...I have decisions...and I am not fighting a large takeout"...along with many other reasons. Not too mention, its much easier to blame yourself for poker loses versus...a jockey, a trainer...drugs...cheating....weather...etc etc. I know who to blame if I lose in poker lol. From what I have read here...alot of people arent sure who to blame for their losses.
Me thinks if you do a little math on the rake in poker...lower limits of course...it's not much different than the take out at the track. Even worse if you throw the dealer a white or two after every win.
I could be wrong. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know. :)

[Tom]

A poker room would draw me back to the track.
But I wouldn't be wasting time on the ponies.
Poker - Horses....no contest.

[jballscalls]

having worked in both poker rooms and horse tracks, i can tell you there is certainly some cross over. there was always guys sitting in the 4/8 games with racing forms in their hand, but they are always 40 or 50+ years old. Guys who got into the sport young and went to the track with their old man.

People will never become interested in the sport from OTB's or betting online. just isn't going to happen. i've always said, the only way to CREATE new players is to get them to the races, and get them there when they are young.

i'd say atleast 80% of the people i talk to at the track, otb's or on these boards who are regular horse players, got into the game by going to the track with their dads, or relatives or got into it when they were young.

[upset]

A poker room would draw me back to the track.
But I wouldn't be wasting time on the ponies.
Poker - Horses....no contest.
Maybe in the basement under the dripping pipes. But the best inside information you can get is who owes Davila money from poker, Then he blocks and Davila races.

[badcompany]

Sorry there bad but I have to disagree with this one. Poker players (pros) make a living at their sport just like any other pro. Now the average GAMBLER who plays poker once in a while I can agree with. but then again, the same can be said for MOST people who frequent the track. From what I have seen here...and at the FG, most horse players are gambling and losing.



IMO, television paints a phony picture of poker. Namely, it makes it seem as though everyone who has a winning year or two is a pro. In reality, 90+% of poker players lose, and most of the guys who go out to Vegas to be pros end up coming home broke. In addition, you'll hear the announcers talk about how many tournament cashes a player has, but that doesn't tell you whether a player is a winner or not. If a horseplayer cashed 100K in winning tickets in 2009, did he have a winning year? Maybe, maybe not.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

IMO, television paints a phony picture of poker. Namely, it makes it seem as though everyone who has a winning year or two is a pro. In reality, 90+% of poker players lose, and most of the guys who go out to Vegas to be pros end up coming home broke. In addition, you'll hear the announcers talk about how many tournament cashes a player has, but that doesn't tell you whether a player is a winner or not. If a horseplayer cashed 100K in winning tickets in 2009, did he have a winning year? Maybe, maybe not.
We do know there are professional poker players who make a living thanks to poker proceeds. We have no such icons when it comes to horse racing, and takeout is to blame.

[badcompany]

We do know there are professional poker players who make a living thanks to poker proceeds. We have no such icons when it comes to horse racing, and takeout is to blame.

True, but it's a different argument.

There was a recent episode of "Poker After Dark" in which Phil Ivey, a top pro, was doing badly at the poker table, so, he went to the crap table to "clear his head." Not too many professional craps icons, either.

Also, during the games, these guys are making prop bets on all sorts of silly things. As I said, they're degenerates, worse than horseplayers. They'll bet on anything.

[Maverick58034]

I think it sounds like a good idea, but probably just won't work. Trying to push something already trendy with something not trendy - it doesn't work by association. It doesn't seem like it solves the underlying problem.

I think it's a better idea to get a buzz around horseracing - namely, to make the game look "cool" and "beatable." I think the image is old, tired, boring, and more of a faux pas. I'd bet the image of poker in the late 20th century was fairly similar. I was in my late teens when the poker craze started, and within a month everyone was playing poker. Not sure if such a craze could be created from horseracing, but anything is possible.

Horseracing just needs a better publicist and a new image.

[JBmadera]

I think it sounds like a good idea, but probably just won't work. Trying to push something already trendy with something not trendy - it doesn't work by association. It doesn't seem like it solves the underlying problem.

I think it's a better idea to get a buzz around horseracing - namely, to make the game look "cool" and "beatable." I think the image is old, tired, boring, and more of a faux pas. I'd bet the image of poker in the late 20th century was fairly similar. I was in my late teens when the poker craze started, and within a month everyone was playing poker. Not sure if such a craze could be created from horseracing, but anything is possible.

Horseracing just needs a better publicist and a new image.

I think the aforementioned is the key - ever since Chris $maker hit the big one folks view poker as "beatable", horse racing on the other hand seems to be viewed as an insiders game, where the average joe has no shot. figuring out how to make the game more appealing is the real issue - the fight for discretionary spending has never been tougher and the "old guard" in racing is really making it tough.

jb

[Bruddah]

having worked in both poker rooms and horse tracks, i can tell you there is certainly some cross over. there was always guys sitting in the 4/8 games with racing forms in their hand, but they are always 40 or 50+ years old. Guys who got into the sport young and went to the track with their old man.

People will never become interested in the sport from OTB's or betting online. just isn't going to happen. i've always said, the only way to CREATE new players is to get them to the races, and get them there when they are young.

i'd say atleast 80% of the people i talk to at the track, otb's or on these boards who are regular horse players, got into the game by going to the track with their dads, or relatives or got into it when they were young.

I have repeatedly posted on this site that in order to save horse racing, we needed to devise ways to put "butts in the bleachers". In other words get new players to the track. As far as old players and young players, one would have to be blind not recognizing that the poker popularity of today is laced with young players looking to expand their gaming experience.

Poker by itself won't save horse racing alone. However, it is just one tool to put "butts in the bleachers". :ThmbUp:

[badcompany]

I think the aforementioned is the key - ever since Chris $maker hit the big one folks view poker as "beatable", horse racing on the other hand seems to be viewed as an insiders game, where the average joe has no shot. figuring out how to make the game more appealing is the real issue - the fight for discretionary spending has never been tougher and the "old guard" in racing is really making it tough.

jb

I recently went to the Yonkers "racino" for the first time. The simulcast rooms there were poorly lit, and the televisions were too small for the distance of the seating. Overall, it was pretty depressing. In addition, it was hard to actually find the track through the casino. So, I don't think slots are the answer.

[how cliche]

I played poker for a few years because it gets lonely at the track for a young man. My friends all play poker. None of them play the races. When you're in your twenties you can't put a price tag on the comraderie of people your own age.

The question becomes how do you get late teens and early twenties gamblers to play? There's a subtext in the poker world that's largely affiliated with hip hop culture. It's one of the least appealing elements of poker to my point of view, but it's widespread and apprealing to young adults in their desperate search for their ever elusive sense of cool.

Somehow racing has to get hip hop in the mix. Jmho.

[ronsmac]

Won't happen.

[upset]

Turfway Park has it figured out. I stopped there on a Friday night in September it was a great atmosfere. People of all different ages hanging out drinking $1 drafts laughing smiling happy. Made me want to move to Cinci

[Sekrah]

Sorry there bad but I have to disagree with this one. Poker players (pros) make a living at their sport just like any other pro. Now the average GAMBLER who plays poker once in a while I can agree with. but then again, the same can be said for MOST people who frequent the track. From what I have seen here...and at the FG, most horse players are gambling and losing.



Phil Ivey is perhaps the best poker players in the world. He's always one of the biggest degenerate gamblers in the world, well known for winning millions and losing even more millions playing high stakes craps. I believe he bets horses as well.

Phil Hellmuth loves horse racing and will be at Churchill on May 1st.


I personally think the guy is correct and that this will increase horse players. The type of people who play poker (winners and losers), play it because they think they are smartest guy in the room. The figuring and information gathering in horse racing is very similar.

[Tread]

Tremendous parallels here

Most good poker players are good at both math and noticing patterns and are interested in playing hands (or races) where the impled odds of something happening seem to offer value based on the current actual odds the pot (or pool) is paying.

Poker and horse racing are both games of skill with some factor of luck involved. In the short run, anything can happen. In the long run, better players usually win more.

Poker and horse racing are both paramutuel with a rake, unlike casino games that have a fixed house advantage and every player is always at a disadvantage.

The largest issue here is, it is much harder to get good at handicapping races than it is poker, there are many more factors in play and many more theories to sort thru (many of them incorrect). The span of poker knowledge is much more finite.

[Robert Goren]

This falls into the "I believe it, when I see it" category. JMO

[Robert Goren]

Tremendous parallels here

Most good poker players are good at both math and noticing patterns and are interested in playing hands (or races) where the impled odds of something happening seem to offer value based on the current actual odds the pot (or pool) is paying.

Poker and horse racing are both games of skill with some factor of luck involved. In the short run, anything can happen. In the long run, better players usually win more.

Poker and horse racing are both paramutuel with a rake, unlike casino games that have a fixed house advantage and every player is always at a disadvantage.

The largest issue here is, it is much harder to get good at handicapping races than it is poker, there are many more factors in play and many more theories to sort thru (many of them incorrect). The span of poker knowledge is much more finite. I could not disagree more. They are different skill set entirely. Poker is a hustler's game. If you go for the math in poker, you will go broke very quickly. Poker is not about your hand beating the other guy's, but is about convincing the other guy he has you beat when he don't. JMO

[Tread]

I could not disagree more. They are different skill set entirely. Poker is a hustler's game. If you go for the math in poker, you will go broke very quickly. Poker is not about your hand beating the other guy's, but is about convincing the other guy he has you beat when he don't. JMO

I did not say poker was only about math, I said it was about both math and the ability to read patterns, i.e. people and their tendencies. Most of the better poker players have skills in both areas. As do handicappers. Handicappers that are dogmatic about performance figures and pace can miss many "read between the lines" items that might keep them from being profitable.

Value, be it in a race or a poker hand, can be based on many things, not all of them necessarily mathematical. But at the end of the day, both of these games are about recognizing value and being able to capitalize on it.

[startngate]

TwinSpires appears to at least be trying to find the crossover. I know they sponsored one (ore more) players in the WSOP last year and are sponsoring the Derby Poker Championship on Thursday.

For any crossover to really take off, they need to get the recognized poker pros to openly talk about playing the horses and how it requires similar skills to poker for them. A nice interview where one of them said something along the lines of them using handicapping to keep their minds sharp when they want to take a break from playing cards would carry a lot of weight.

Actually, in general it seems these days that to make anything take off as being trendy you need to get celebrities, athletes and famous wanna-be's to endorse the activity. They do a little celebrity interviewing on the Derby broadcast, but other than that, unless one happens to own a horse, there just isn't that much coverage of celebs participating in our sport. Racing needs to figure out how to make that happen on a more regular basis. It pretty much failed after Seabiscuit when there was a great opportunity of heightened awareness.

[Johnny V]

A lot of people seem to think that many are making a living or profit from poker. Now I am not a poker player at all except when I was in the military I did play some. So I am not an expert by any means. I have only known 3 people that have made their living from poker over the years. They seldom play at casinos or racetracks. They mostly play in private games. Two of them cheat and the other has hinted and I suspect that he is also some kind of card mechanic. They have played the horses only occasionally and have drummed up some games with people at the track in the past for games later that evening.

[tzipi]

I see alot of professional poker players who have made a living playing poker on tv. Not just one hit big tournament winners. I'm talking about Ivey,Brunson,Negreanu,Gavin Smith,Hellmuth,Nguyen,Furgeson,Duke,etc,etc. Too many to list. Lifetime and yearly winnings are listed on poker sites. You see these guys in the media and on tv. You never see horseplayers in the same light or their big money plays or big lifetime earnings shown or posted. I think that's the big difference.

Can't be paying ESPN to lie because alot of these guys houses have been shown on tv "MTV Cribs Style" and they are pretty darn big and nice. Not only do a lot of professionals make a decent living off their play but alot are also rewarded by the industry with sponsorship,etc money.

Very hard to name many bigtime money winners over a lifetime in horse racing or even name household names. That's the big difference in my opinion. NOT knocking racing and it's players as I obviously love the game and love the sport itself even more. Just saying there's a difference in what people see between these two games in the media.

[Sekrah]

I see alot of professional poker players who have made a living playing poker on tv. Not just one hit big tournament winners. I'm talking about Ivey,Brunson,Negreanu,Gavin Smith,Hellmuth,Nguyen,Furgeson,Duke,etc,etc. Too many to list. Lifetime and yearly winnings are listed on poker sites. You see these guys in the media and on tv. You never see horseplayers in the same light or their big money plays or big lifetime earnings shown or posted. I think that's the big difference.

Can't be paying ESPN to lie because alot of these guys houses have been shown on tv "MTV Cribs Style" and they are pretty darn big and nice. Not only do a lot of professionals make a decent living off their play but alot are also rewarded by the industry with sponsorship,etc money.

Very hard to name many bigtime money winners over a lifetime in horse racing or even name household names. That's the big difference in my opinion. NOT knocking racing and it's players as I obviously love the game and love the sport itself even more. Just saying there's a difference in what people see between these two games in the media.


ESPN used to produce a show for the NTRA National Handicapping Championship. They stopped doing it. They should bring that and other tournaments in. Mic the guys up and have them talk out their handicapping process for the specific races. The hole-card camera is what transformed poker.

[tzipi]

ESPN used to produce a show for the NTRA National Handicapping Championship. They stopped doing it. They should bring that and other tournaments in. Mic the guys up and have them talk out their handicapping process for the specific races. The hole-card camera is what transformed poker.

Totally agree, the hole card was the best thing for poker and made it more fun for fans. It would be great for horse racing to show the tournament again. Would be cool to watch.

[Tom]

Maybe in the basement under the dripping pipes. But the best inside information you can get is who owes Davila money from poker, Then he blocks and Davila races.

You lost me.:confused:

[Cubbymac26]

Me thinks if you do a little math on the rake in poker...lower limits of course...it's not much different than the take out at the track. Even worse if you throw the dealer a white or two after every win.
I could be wrong. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know. :)

im a poker dealer/deg horse player in a casino and ill give u the breakdown

in a 2-4 limit holdem if the pot is 40 the casino takes 4 plus u tip the dealer 1 or 2 thats 6 off the table so thats like around 15 percent which is close to the normal wps take out

so in other words if a 2-4 game starts out 10 handed everybody starts with a 100 the casino and dealer drain the game in 5 hours so in theory the track and poker are close in higher limit games its a lot less effected by the rake i

hope this makes sense

and finally if every track had a poker room there would be many more horseplayers...u always see kids betting a race just for quick action

[thaskalos]

Young people don't play much live poker, because online poker is much faster, and more convenient. And, like tzipi said, it is well known that more than a few online poker players have been very successful for years, a fact that gives credibility to the game, which is something that horse racing currently lacks.

It is true that only a very small percentage of poker players win over the long haul, but it is also true that the game's brighters stars have been amazingly successful, and it has nothing to do with luck. I am well acquainted with two online poker players in their mid 20's. They both deposited $600 in an online account at a popular poker site, and in a little over three years they have both become millionaires. Patrik Antonius, arguably the best and most consistent online poker player, won over $8 million last year alone...DOCUMENTED.

Does horse racing have any role models like these to offer to the young people it is trying to attract? I asked this question in a post here a few months ago, and CharlieD was quick to reply with an article of a British bettor who has won millions of dollars, while routinely wagering $50,000+ a race, into the massive pools overseas. Well...in this country, the game is played somewhat differently...

[Pace Cap'n]

im a poker dealer/deg horse player in a casino and ill give u the breakdown

in a 2-4 limit holdem if the pot is 40 the casino takes 4 plus u tip the dealer 1 or 2 thats 6 off the table so thats like around 15 percent which is close to the normal wps take out


How much would the rake be if the stakes were 20-40? Or 200-400?

Of all gambling games, only horseracing and poker are considered to be +EV. That's because you don't have to make a wager on every race or every hand. In each game you can wait for a favorable situation and then send it in.

[Cubbymac26]

How much would the rake be if the stakes were 20-40? Or 200-400?

Of all gambling games, only horseracing and poker are considered to be +EV. That's because you don't have to make a wager on every race or every hand. In each game you can wait for a favorable situation and then send it in.

in 20-40 and 200-400 the rake is a time collection from each player each half hour

in the games ive dealt 20-40 there are two types of rake ive seen the casino take $1 on 40$1 on 80 $1 on 160 and $1 on 320........for a max of 4 a pot

and in 20-40 ive seen the rake be each person pays $7 every 30 minutes

in 200-400 the rake is $13 per player per half hour,,,

now consider there on average 34 hands dealt in an hour so maybe somebody can elaberate on the comparison per capita on the rake vs takeout at the track

here are the rake amounts for the other stakes

2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 5-10 limit holdem is 10% $4max

1-2 no limit is the same
2-5no limit $2 on 20 $1 at 45 $1 at 60
5-10no limit is $6 per player per half hour

so as u can see the higher u play the less effect the rake generally has but u also factor in a 1 or 2 dollar tip each hand so im curious to see somebody disect these numbers and see which is more fair to the better racing or poker

[Robert Goren]

How much would the rake be if the stakes were 20-40? Or 200-400?

Of all gambling games, only horseracing and poker are considered to be +EV. That's because you don't have to make a wager on every race or every hand. In each game you can wait for a favorable situation and then send it in. Very few poker players make large amounts of money online. Fewer than 10% make any money online. There are two types of online poker players , tournament players and ring game players. The tournaments players have huge swings from year to year. The ring game players fall into two groups; Grinders and high stakes players. The high stakes all sit around playing each losing some in rakes till someone moves up over their head and gets taken to the cleaners. The grinders play at low stakes but play a bunch of tables. They are almost like robots. The days of college kids playing one table at low stakes before going to bed are over and has been over for sometime. I do not see any of these poker players becoming horseplayers. I think that having poker tables at race tracks might actually get some horseplayers to spend more time playing poker and less time playing the ponies. JMO

[appistappis]

2010 reality.....forget about rakes and takeouts.....as long as it costs about $20 just to sit down at a racetrack and zero to get in a poker room WE ARE NOT going to attract new players.

[kenwoodallpromos]

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[Watcher]

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Catalog ID: 992C (Drawings!)

Each deck of playing cards features fifty-two of the greatest horse racing personalities in Derby history. The face of each playing card is colorfully illustrated with amusing caricatures and tidbits of knowledge about such Derby luminaries as Seattle Slew, Pat Day, D Wayne Lukas, Smarty Jones, Eddie Arcora, Calumet Farms, and many more.

This poker-sized deck is sure be a hit with racing fans of all ages!
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What's with all the horse racing themed playing cards these days?

[Watcher]

There is a definite cross-over between horse racing and poker players. I myself, being a mid-twenties former high volume poker player, is one example.

From my experience with horse bettors, there seem to be two types: statistical and visual.

Statistical bettors are the ones pouring over past performances and pace figures. They understand the number side of the game, and where the value lays.

Visual bettors are the ones that are always down at the paddock. These bettors judge the current look of the horse. They look over the DRF, but not to the same degree as the statistical bettors.

This is identical to the type of players you find at the poker table. You have bettors that play purely by the numbers (most online winners) and those that are typically visual (the likes of high stakes tournament pros like Phil Ivey).

However, this notion that you can just slap a cardroom on the side of a track and it will flock people in is a little mis-aligned. Hollywood Park has an adjacent cardromm, for example.

There needs to be a set process. A way to not only create interest from the poker players in horse racing, but to guide them up the learning curve. The reason poker was able to boom wasn't just because of the television. My generation saw Chris Moneymaker win the WSOP and millions of dollars, and we started playing at home with friends.

Our home games quickly escalated to a move online. This move was of utmost importance to the poker boom. Young poker players, and those new to the game, now had the ability to see so many hands per hour and log so much time learning the basics of the game, that it helped them position themselves into future winners.

So, with regards to the implementation of a cross-over campaign, there must be two aspects successfully applied to achieve success.

1. Generate interest
2. Teach them up the learning curve

Number one can't be done by merely building the cardroom. The operators of the cardroom, once it's visitors and base players rise to a decent level, will need to implement a system of cross-promotion. The worst thing in the world would be to just assume a cross-over would occur, and not utilize your player base across both betting avenues.

For example, a loyalty program, or "rake back" scheme, out of the cardroom that entices or forces people to use the money or points earned via the track betting, entry, food, etc.

For example, free entry to the "silks club" for players that play more than 3 hours at the poker table. Or automatic entry into the gates for anyone that plays poker for more than 30 minutes.

Number two can't be done by merely housing "how to bet" sessions. These won't attract your target audience. You'll need to utilize all sorts of standard and creative ways to begin teaching the poker players about the game.

For example, large poster boards throughout the inside of the cardroom explaining the types of bets, explaining how to read the DRF, and showing how much is in any carryover pool.

For example, pushing the players online or the the simulcast area where they can bet a multitude of races, which will help them advance up the learning curve.

To conclude this post, I don't diminish the feasibility of using poker to attract horse players. But I am skeptical of it being implemented correctly with those currently running the show.

However, if they brought in professional individuals with a past experience in the casino or poker gaming industry, this idea has a chance. Those individuals might also be able to teach our current operators a thing or two about running a successful business.

[ernie simons]

im a poker dealer/deg horse player in a casino and ill give u the breakdown

in a 2-4 limit holdem if the pot is 40 the casino takes 4 plus u tip the dealer 1 or 2 thats 6 off the table so thats like around 15 percent which is close to the normal wps take out

so in other words if a 2-4 game starts out 10 handed everybody starts with a 100 the casino and dealer drain the game in 5 hours so in theory the track and poker are close in higher limit games its a lot less effected by the rake

So a 2-4 10 handed game has a 15% rake...and the rake at Aq is 16%....how is takeout and rake closer at higher limits? Looks pretty close right there.

[hazzardm]

Poker room at Canterbury Downs has been a wild success. I know a few card players will come in for ponies on occasion, but I think the trend is more the other direction, with pony players going in for poker.

The poker room has helped a great deal in maintaining a decent purse structure for our summer meet.

Sooo, if you like to play both come on over to Canterbury...

[Horseplayersbet.com]

im a poker dealer/deg horse player in a casino and ill give u the breakdown

in a 2-4 limit holdem if the pot is 40 the casino takes 4 plus u tip the dealer 1 or 2 thats 6 off the table so thats like around 15 percent which is close to the normal wps take out

so in other words if a 2-4 game starts out 10 handed everybody starts with a 100 the casino and dealer drain the game in 5 hours so in theory the track and poker are close in higher limit games its a lot less effected by the rake i

hope this makes sense

and finally if every track had a poker room there would be many more horseplayers...u always see kids betting a race just for quick action

What is the average pot? Is there a maximum you take out?, a minimum? In other words, what is the average pot and what is the average the house gets + tip?
Try to include the bigger tables in this equation too, so we can get a good idea of what the real takeout is.

What I am reading here is that 15% is the maximum takeout.