West Virginia Derby

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Race 8 - 5:45 PM
West Virginia Derby (Grade II)
One And One Eighth Miles
1 Soul Warrior (KY) 3/C LA* M Mena 111 S M Asmussen
2 Mine That Bird (KY) 3/G L M E Smith 122 B L Woolley, Jr.
3 Awesome Rhythm (KY) 3/C L J McAleney 113 J A Ross
4 Sunday Sunrise (KY) 3/C LA* C J Lanerie 111 S M Asmussen
5 Big Drama (FL) 3/C L E Coa 111 D Fawkes
6 Monty's Best (FL) 3/C LA* E R Da Silva 113 R Baker

A - Coupled Entries - Soul Warrior, Sunday Sunrise


I find it hilarious that just because Big Drama has not won a race of 1 mile or over this year, he gets to carry 111 lbs. Mine That Bird gets to carry 122lbs. Not much speed in here either. Seems like people will be throwing away some money on Mine That Bird. Big Drama's best distance may not be 1-1/8 Miles but this kind of race seems similar to the Hard Spun / Street Sense matchup when Hard Spun got a slow pace and got the best of him. Although Big Drama will also be bet hard, he'll still be good enough to bet considering that derby winners are always overbet.

[RockHardTen1985]

Big Drama has to win this. He's getting 11 pounds and clearly has the tactical edge. I dont see how you could make any case for MTB considering the circumstances.

[Onion Monster]

I can think of two reasons: Eibar Coa.

I envision Coa reigning in Big Drama and trying to moderate the pace. This will bunch up the field by the top of the stretch and Mine that Bird will be much closer to the pace.

[ryesteve]

I can think of two reasons: Eibar Coa.

I envision Coa reigning in Big Drama and trying to moderate the pace.I can't recall anyone ever making the argument that a slow pace is going to help the deep closer...

[Robert Goren]

MTB may or may not win this race. But it will be about how well he fires, not about weight or how slow the pace is or isn't. A slow pace will make a winner out a horse who is 30 lenghts poorer than another. One thing is for sure the time will be fast since MTR always packs the track for this race.;)

[Onion Monster]

That's because most people assume a slow pace, on dirt, hurts the closers. More often than not, I've found, a slow pace can hurt the early runner if they have to deal with horses near them. To me, pressure is more important than time.

Some jocks never get this: Coa and Rajiv Maragh come to mind. They try to rate and moderate the pace on early runners. This can work on turf, where horses have to deal with tightly packed fields and traffic regularly, and on dirt when the early runner maintains a length plus advantage into the stretch. But at MNR, I would much rather have a local jock who knows that the best way to win on dirt with a speed horse is to grind the field into submission and not try to save your mount for a stretch kick.

[Bison]

One thing is for sure the time will be fast since MTR always packs the track for this race.;)

If you watched MNR this week, you will have seen many more closers than usual winning. Looks like they are trying to set the track up for MTB.

[ryesteve]

That's because most people assume a slow pace, on dirt, hurts the closers. More often than not, I've found, a slow pace can hurt the early runner if they have to deal with horses near them. To me, pressure is more important than time.Even if correct, this sets up the race for a close presser, not a deep closer.

[lamboguy]

That's because most people assume a slow pace, on dirt, hurts the closers. More often than not, I've found, a slow pace can hurt the early runner if they have to deal with horses near them. To me, pressure is more important than time.

Some jocks never get this: Coa and Rajiv Maragh come to mind. They try to rate and moderate the pace on early runners. This can work on turf, where horses have to deal with tightly packed fields and traffic regularly, and on dirt when the early runner maintains a length plus advantage into the stretch. But at MNR, I would much rather have a local jock who knows that the best way to win on dirt with a speed horse is to grind the field into submission and not try to save your mount for a stretch kick.that's the way i have alway's viewed things. if you got a speed horse use him, run the other's off their feet. if they catch you more power to them.

as far as riders knowing the track, that is alway's a big plus. i have seen some awful rides lately, one of them calvin borel on rachel in the preakness, she won despite the ride.

go rachel go this sunday in new jersey!!

[ghostyapper]

Even if correct, this sets up the race for a close presser, not a deep closer.

This depends on the horse. If a presser does not have the explosive acceleration of a closer, the closer will have the advantage when the field is bunched up.

[ryesteve]

the closer will have the advantage when the field is bunched up.Except a slow pace doesn't always mean the field will be bunched. I've seen plenty of races lately where they go 6f in 1:16, but the closer is still in his customary position 10-12 lengths in back of the leader.

[joanied]

rather a poor field, IMO...and it's gotta be either Big Drama or MTB in the winner's circle...I would love to see MTB win this.
MTB
Big Drama
Sunday Sunrise
or...
Big Drama
MTB
Sunday Sunrise

Can't wait:jump:

[GMB@BP]

That's because most people assume a slow pace, on dirt, hurts the closers. More often than not, I've found, a slow pace can hurt the early runner if they have to deal with horses near them. To me, pressure is more important than time.

Some jocks never get this: Coa and Rajiv Maragh come to mind. They try to rate and moderate the pace on early runners. This can work on turf, where horses have to deal with tightly packed fields and traffic regularly, and on dirt when the early runner maintains a length plus advantage into the stretch. But at MNR, I would much rather have a local jock who knows that the best way to win on dirt with a speed horse is to grind the field into submission and not try to save your mount for a stretch kick.

This is a very good post. What is really the trouble for deep closers is a uncontested lead in a solid pace that does not back up, ie the horse running them off their feet, try making up 15 in that case.

The Riley Tucker race was a good example at Saratoga today, never got clear and comfortable but he should have been able to clear those, and finished way up the track.

I love front runners like Azeri, Rachael Alexandra, and Holy Bull, they just ran fast and kept going.

[bisket]

Except a slow pace doesn't always mean the field will be bunched. I've seen plenty of races lately where they go 6f in 1:16, but the closer is still in his customary position 10-12 lengths in back of the leader.
yes some jocks just don't have clock in their head at all. i don't see that being a problem with smith though. i really like drama, but i'm wondering if he's gonna be overbet judging by posts. theres a good chance he'll stop after a mile though. this will be his true test as to if he can get a route or not. he does have classy speed.

[mountainman]

Big Drama has to win this. He's getting 11 pounds and clearly has the tactical edge. I dont see how you could make any case for MTB considering the circumstances.

EVERYBODY likes Big Drama to win this. The reasons to prefer him over the higher profile horse are so painfully obvious that, by post time, it may well be Big Drama who is overbet. He is the ultimate wise guy pick.

[ldiatone]

I have made plans to be there this year. i'll wave to all from the rail!
and i'll wave to you mountain man!
ldiatone

[gm10]

I reckon Monty's Best has a chance. His ratings are nearly as good as MTB and BD.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

After thinking about it a little more. Is it even possible for Eibar Coa to ride at 111 lbs? I don't think he can make weight at that, can he?

[mountainman]

I have made plans to be there this year. i'll wave to all from the rail!
and i'll wave to you mountain man!
ldiatone
Stop in the studio and say hi.

[ryesteve]

I can think of two reasons: Eibar Coa.

I envision Coa reigning in Big Drama and trying to moderate the pace.
if you got a speed horse use him, run the other's off their feet.
What is really the trouble for deep closers is a uncontested lead in a solid pace
Well, Coa did exactly what you guys wanted him to do. We'll never know what would've happened otherwise, but the outcome didn't do much to convince me that a more sensible pace wouldn't have been a better idea.

[andymays]

Well, Coa did exactly what you guys wanted him to do. We'll never know what would've happened otherwise, but the outcome didn't do much to convince me that a more sensible pace wouldn't have been a better idea.


I think the bumping at the start cost Big Drama the race. After it happened he never seemed to get into a good stride! Having said that it was a very weak race and maybe there are implications for Rachel today. Mine That Bird looked awful whether he moved too early or not!

[jonnielu]

I think the bumping at the start cost Big Drama the race. After it happened he never seemed to get into a good stride! Having said that it was a very weak race and maybe there are implications for Rachel today. Mine That Bird looked awful whether he moved too early or not!

MTB would've looked a lot better passing both horses in front, which he could do except for the knucklehead on his back, starting a run with 5/8 left.

jdl

[Onion Monster]

ryesteve, didn't Big Drama hold off MTB? MTB had to run too hard for too long and his stretch kick was mitigated. The third choice, Monty's Best, was burned up trying to stay close. It was a good speed ride.

Coa did the right thing. Only Steve Asmussen threw another monkey wrench into the works with his entry. I know the finishing time was slow, but the race didn't exactly fall apart. I'm guessing Soul Warrior just ran a big race while Big Drama and MTB regressed a bit.

[Java Gold@TFT]

MTB would've looked a lot better passing both horses in front, which he could do except for the knucklehead on his back, starting a run with 5/8 left.

jdl
No offense but go back and watch the race one more time with an open mind. Look at MTB down the stretch the first time. He was climbing and fighting and had a real bounding stride. He wouldn't settle. Smith had to fight him and then finally gave up and let him run when he was 15 lengths behind Big Drama. No matter how badly BD tired if Smith didn't start to make any progress before the 3/8ths pole then BD would have been gone. Beckner was the smartest of the group (obviously) and he's not getting enough credit for keeping MTB at bay while he focused on BD. I still think with the times of the other races during the day that MTB did not have one legitimate excuse. Weights? BS, Moved too early? BS, poor jockey? BS. He flat out lost a race that he couldn't finish and that's it. The track was fine but it's not like he was a speed demon for the first 6F. He still couldn't close no matter when he had to run. A real G-I quality race horse doesn't need 13 horse fields in the slop to win a race.

[jonnielu]

No offense but go back and watch the race one more time with an open mind. Look at MTB down the stretch the first time. He was climbing and fighting and had a real bounding stride. He wouldn't settle. Smith had to fight him and then finally gave up and let him run when he was 15 lengths behind Big Drama. No matter how badly BD tired if Smith didn't start to make any progress before the 3/8ths pole then BD would have been gone. Beckner was the smartest of the group (obviously) and he's not getting enough credit for keeping MTB at bay while he focused on BD. I still think with the times of the other races during the day that MTB did not have one legitimate excuse. Weights? BS, Moved too early? BS, poor jockey? BS. He flat out lost a race that he couldn't finish and that's it. The track was fine but it's not like he was a speed demon for the first 6F. He still couldn't close no matter when he had to run. A real G-I quality race horse doesn't need 13 horse fields in the slop to win a race.

BD wasn't going anywhere, he got beat by the other horse. If Smith can't get along with MTB, that is just another reason to find a jock that can. The only way that speed horses win at two turns is by getting the other horses to run too early.

Speed is a 4f deal.

jdl

[gm10]

I also thought it was a weak race when I saw it, but looking at the times, it looks a little better. Imo, the second and third ran the same numbers as they have in the last 3 months, whereas the winner improved by about 3-4l.

[Java Gold@TFT]

BD wasn't going anywhere, he got beat by the other horse. If Smith can't get along with MTB, that is just another reason to find a jock that can. The only way that speed horses win at two turns is by getting the other horses to run too early.

Speed is a 4f deal.

jdl
You're right that BD wasn't going anywhere but the fact is that MTB still couldn't go by him either. When did MTB start his run in the Derby? Another 1 mile track and he started to move down the backstretch. Yesterday he only had a few horses in front of him although he was still at least 15 back as he started up. Smith moved when he had to. He also still could not outfinish an nwx1 winner. That's not champion quality. MTB now has won one race this year. He has a Canadian G-3 under his belt from last year and 2 sprint stakes wins with inflated WO slot purses. I still don't see the fascination with this horse. Lifetime wins - one G-1 (fluke) and one G-3C. Big fat hairy deal. He couldn't even get past a known sprinter who will show up in the King's Bishop in his next start. Mediocre/fluke is being generous if you look at the whole of his lifetime PP's. Just win baby!

[ryesteve]

ryesteve, didn't Big Drama hold off MTB?Stop, just stop. You're not going to justify Coa's ride with the crap race and crap ride MTB had. Big Drama couldn't hold off a 20/1 shot no one gave a chance to because he couldn't come home any faster than 14 2/5 seconds, thanks to the "just wing it" tactics you guys were advocating. Who cares what MTB did? Big Drama lost a race he should've won, and that's what matters.

[DrugS]

A trainer down there - who's groom had a horse in the race - told me that Big Drama collapsed from heat exhaustion on the long walk back to the barn area at Mountaineer.

They said he was down for a while - but did get back up and was fine.

I wouldn't blame Coa for the ride .. the horse didn't seem comfortable and was erratic. I don't think he was himself yesterday.

[Onion Monster]

Smith's ride was crap because of the way Coa rode, or didn't ride, Big Drama. He did exactly what he had to do to defeat MTB at 9 furlongs. An Asmussen horse just jumped up and bit them both.

And since the ride was out of character for Coa, I'd guess Big Drama was going to run off with Samyn aboard yesterday.

[jotb]

Mena misses his flight and Beckener not only gets the mount but wins the 750k race. I wonder if Beckner picks up the next dinner tab for Mena.

Joe

[Java Gold@TFT]

Mena misses his flight and Beckener not only gets the mount but wins the 750k race. I wonder if Beckner picks up the next dinner tab for Mena.

Joe
Not if they have drinks with dinner: FWIW:

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/sundays-saratoga-notebook/2193/#more-2193

"Mena misses big win : Jockey Miguel Mena missed a flight to Mountaineer Race Track, which cost him the biggest win of his career when 23-1 shot Soul Warrior triumphed in the $750,000 West Virginia Derby on Saturday. Substitute rider Dale Beckner got the mount instead.

Steve Elzey, Mena’s agent, suggested Sunday that a drinking problem caused the jockey to miss the race. Elzey said Mena will attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and will pay his agent the amount of money – approximately $20,000 - the agent would have made had the rider fulfilled his commitments.

“I told every trainer here this week, he has a little issue. If he has one drink, he gets stupid,” Elzey said. “But ability-wise, there’s nobody better. And when he keeps his act together, all the trainers want to use him. If he quit doing what he does today, he could be leading rider at any of these top tracks in the next 12 months.’’

Mena, 22, is riding in his first Spa meet and won the Grade II Sanford with Backtalk on Thursday.

Elzey will continue to manage Mena’s book and the rider will remain at Saratoga, but the agent said his jockey is treading on thin ice in his first full summer at the Spa.

Mena also recently failed to fulfill his commitments on six mounts at Churchill Downs, when he missed his flight back to Kentucky on June 7, the day after the Belmont Stakes."

[post time]

Good thing pletcher was not training mine that bird.The tv interveiw would not have been so kind to mountaineer.They had the track ready for a nascar race.For a track that is so poorly managed u would think they would go out of there way to made the track fair not like the tv guy keeps saying 'bias'

[Cat Thief]

Well that's too bad Mena has a problem but he is very young and I remember a young Gomez with a problem and he came back with a vengeance so I hope Mena learns from this and gets help so he can ride to the potential he is acapable of.

[WinterTriangle]

A trainer down there - who's groom had a horse in the race - told me that Big Drama collapsed from heat exhaustion on the long walk back to the barn area at Mountaineer.

They said he was down for a while - but did get back up and was fine.


Not surprised. I don't think this is all that complicated. Big Drama needs a tad shorter route. He was absolutely exhausted.


Java said: " I don't get the fascination with this horse" (MTB).

Have you met MTB? There are *qualities* in a horse that just make people like them. I could list the ones I see in MTB, but since you don't see it, there's no point. Some racing fans only like horses that are world-beaters. Some racing fans like horses in general, and there are personality traits and quirks in a horse that make them like the horse.

For every Lava Man,etc., there are thousands of horses out on tracks, every day, racing for our entertainment, and many of us just gravitate toward certain ones purely because they like the heart of the horse.

[Grits]

This is all unfortunate in that this young man had 5 mounts total at Mountaineer on Saturday along with his mount on Soul Warrior.

In the 2nd, his runner ran 3rd.
In the 3rd, his runner ran 2nd.
In the 5th, his runner won.
In the 8th, his runner won.
In the 9th, his runner won.

He was in with 2 mounts on Sunday at Saratoga; the 1st and the 4th races. In the first race, his horse, Its My Day, a 3 year old filly flipped, unseating him in paddock. She fractured her skull and died. Mena was pinned underneath, though, not seriously injured, he took off his mount in the fourth due to swelling in his knee according to Claire Novak's report.

A part of me feels, very much, for this young man. He knows how much he's lost.

And I'm not convinced the backside, along with, now, the rest of the country needed to know "I told every trainer here this week, he has a little issue, he has one drink and he gets stupid."

His agent talks more than a $2.00 radio.

This may be the first young man in Saratoga County history to walk into an AA meeting, "Hello, my name is Miguel."

And the entire room answers . . . .

"Oh hell, we already heard and read all about you, buddy. DAMN, you lost a lotta money. And you gotta pay the loudmouth that told it!"

[joanied]

I don't know about how the surface plays there...ot wether or not they 'souped' it up...but for the purse and grade...it sure wasn't much to watch...IMO :)
i think maybe Wooley needs to go back to square one with MTB...I beleive he's got MTB way too wired!!
A shot of him in his stall the morning of the race shows him weaving back & forth...and aftere the break...I couldn't beleive my eyes...MTB looked as if he was running on hot coals or something...he was climbing something awful and it was pretty obvious to me the little horse didn't want to relax...and blaming it on Mike Smith is, IMO...ridiculous...I'd bet even Calvin couldn't have gotten MTB to relax in this one...and Mike did the right thing by letting him go...he had dead aim near the wire, just couldn't get there...this is making his Derby look more & more like a minor miracle...he is a very nice lttle race horse and his day will come again...but, again, my opinion...not until Wooley can take him down a notch...start putting long, relaxing gallops into him and forget about any fast works until he's close to his next race...then a couple of quick half miles to tune him up... he was the same way for the Belmont...higher than a kite!
but, I felt so bad because I was really wanting MTB to win this....Soul Warrior...geeze...Big Drama is best left to run shorter...and I'm sorry he had heat stroke and collasped...thank goodness he's OK...I think if they keep Big Drama at a mile or under...he's a huge winner.
But, back to the little Bird...I haven't even had time yet to read all the headline stories about this past weekend's races...but he is such an endearing little horse, the kind you want to be around...so I hope before Wooley decides it's time to go home, that MTB gets himself in the winners' circle again.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Java said: " I don't get the fascination with this horse" (MTB).

Have you met MTB? There are *qualities* in a horse that just make people like them. I could list the ones I see in MTB, but since you don't see it, there's no point. Some racing fans only like horses that are world-beaters. Some racing fans like horses in general, and there are personality traits and quirks in a horse that make them like the horse.

For every Lava Man,etc., there are thousands of horses out on tracks, every day, racing for our entertainment, and many of us just gravitate toward certain ones purely because they like the heart of the horse.

No, I haven't met MTB and before the Derby he wasn't even a blip on my radar. I didn't see any of his races in Canada and he certainly didn't do anything to garnish attention in NM. I have fallen for many horses over the years and they weren't worldbeaters. I appreciate the horses who have that "extra something" that I have seen in person. I have owned horses and hung around backstretches with others and have a true appreciation for each horses unique personality. I just don't see anything special in MTB from what I have seen on TV. Maybe my mind will be changed when I see him in the coming weeks at Saratoga but until then it's just my opinion. I don't get it - except for one race since he left Canada he's had nothing but excuses.

[jotb]

Not if they have drinks with dinner: FWIW:

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/sundays-saratoga-notebook/2193/#more-2193

"Mena misses big win : Jockey Miguel Mena missed a flight to Mountaineer Race Track, which cost him the biggest win of his career when 23-1 shot Soul Warrior triumphed in the $750,000 West Virginia Derby on Saturday. Substitute rider Dale Beckner got the mount instead.

Steve Elzey, Mena’s agent, suggested Sunday that a drinking problem caused the jockey to miss the race. Elzey said Mena will attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and will pay his agent the amount of money – approximately $20,000 - the agent would have made had the rider fulfilled his commitments.

“I told every trainer here this week, he has a little issue. If he has one drink, he gets stupid,” Elzey said. “But ability-wise, there’s nobody better. And when he keeps his act together, all the trainers want to use him. If he quit doing what he does today, he could be leading rider at any of these top tracks in the next 12 months.’’

Mena, 22, is riding in his first Spa meet and won the Grade II Sanford with Backtalk on Thursday.

Elzey will continue to manage Mena’s book and the rider will remain at Saratoga, but the agent said his jockey is treading on thin ice in his first full summer at the Spa.

Mena also recently failed to fulfill his commitments on six mounts at Churchill Downs, when he missed his flight back to Kentucky on June 7, the day after the Belmont Stakes."

Elzey said "Mena has a little issue". If Mena needs to go to AA meetings, I would think he has a problem with Alcoholism. If he's an alcoholic then he's not dealing with a "little issue" Alcoholism is a disease that never can be cured but can be arrested. A few AA meetings is not going to take care of Mena's Alcohol problem. Apparently, Mena can't have the first drink ever because it's causing harm to his business. I certainly think Elzey is more concerned with the moeny than Mena's addiction. It's more like Elzey was trying to protect his reputation and business rather than protecting Mena who Elzey works for. There are other ways to handle the Mena situation and Elzey went overboard. You are supposed to protect your jockey at all times since he's the one that pays you each week. Elzey represents Mena and this could have been done in a more professional manner. Mena needs to admit if he's an alcohlic not the other way around. Shame on Elsey for the way he handled this. Just because Mena's horses won doesn't necessarily mean Mena would have won any of thoese races. When the smoke clears Mena might have a different attitiude towards Elzey down the road. Time will tell.

Joe

[Whodoyalike?]

No, I haven't met MTB and before the Derby he wasn't even a blip on my radar. I didn't see any of his races in Canada and he certainly didn't do anything to garnish attention in NM. I have fallen for many horses over the years and they weren't worldbeaters. I appreciate the horses who have that "extra something" that I have seen in person. I have owned horses and hung around backstretches with others and have a true appreciation for each horses unique personality. I just don't see anything special in MTB from what I have seen on TV. Maybe my mind will be changed when I see him in the coming weeks at Saratoga but until then it's just my opinion. I don't get it - except for one race since he left Canada he's had nothing but excuses.


Thank you! Finally a voice of reason. MTB=sucker horse.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Update on Mena's situation in today's Albany TU:

"Jockey Miguel Mena, winner of the July 30 Sanford Stakes aboard the Tom Amoss-trained Backtalk, will return to Kentucky Thursday. Mena’s hopes for a solid first meet at Saratoga were dashed when a drinking problem caused him to miss his flight to Mountaineer Race Track last Saturday and he conceded his mount aboard Soul Warrior, winner of the $750,000 West Virginia Derby. Today is Mena’s last day in New York; he’ll resume racing at Ellis Park over the weekend and will begin an intense outpatient treatment program for alcoholism, said his agent, Steve Elzey."

He did finish a troubled 2nd on Paddy O'Prado on Wednesday before heading back to KY. Let's hope he's not another PVal but can get himself straightened out eventually like Pat Day had to. He has some talent from the races I watched.

[Grits]

Pat Day. And, Jerry Bailey, as well. Both of whom, haven't ever drunk another drop.

I wish this young man success. I hope he's able to turn this around, and put all of it behind him. Its troubling to see anyone so young, and with talent, become a casualty of the disease, that's alcoholism.