Interesting TV show about the Breeder's Cup Pick 6 Scam

[CBedo]

A show on TruTV called MasterMinds about how criminals planned their criminal enterprise and of course how they were caught.

They just had one about the Breeder's Cup Pick 6 Scam. I didn't realize that the same AutoTote programmer had earlier figured out how to cash about 80,000 of uncollected tickets that were on the system.

Pretty crazy to think that if just about anyone but Volponi won the Classic that year, he would have won less, but probably noone would have suspected anything.

It was an interesting show that you guys might enjoy watching if it comes on again. It was from 2004 and the episode title was "Ham."

[cmoore]

Masterminds - A Day at the Races (1 of 3) 2 and 3 should be on the same page..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTNZrdj2Kbc&feature=PlayList&p=3220B50F10B52726&index=0&playnext=1

[CBedo]

Thanks for the link.

[cmoore]

Thanks for the link.

I love the last line....

He forgot, While he was a mastermind of his computer. He was not a master of the horses and he got caught by a long shot..:lol:

[ryesteve]

Pretty crazy to think that if just about anyone but Volponi won the Classic that year, he would have won less, but probably noone would have suspected anything.Even with Volponi winning, if they hadn't made the ticket look so ridiculous (what was it, 4 singles and two ALLs?) no one would've caught on either...

[magwell]

Even with Volponi winning, if they hadn't made the ticket look so ridiculous (what was it, 4 singles and two ALLs?) no one would've caught on either... You are 100 % right....... It could have gone on a long time with a real player on the inside calling the shots.

[Cangamble]

Even with Volponi winning, if they hadn't made the ticket look so ridiculous (what was it, 4 singles and two ALLs?) no one would've caught on either...
Exactly, if they would have gone 3 by 2 by 1 by 2 by all by all, they might have got away with it. Also, having the friend open an account new just before the race, wasn't very smart either, but they were expecting to be one of 3 or 4 winners if they were lucky, and it wouldn't have been noticed.

Curious if the players who got ripped off by their earlier pick 4 scams, where over $100,000 was ripped off from winning players were ever compensated. I doubt it.

[spiketoo]

I watched something similar years ago on the Discovery channel or somewhere. While the 'structure' was odd at best, I believe suspicion arose when they had the P6 multiple times on one ticket. THAT was the red flag. Who puts in a $6 P6?

[rrbauer]

I watched something similar years ago on the Discovery channel or somewhere. While the 'structure' was odd at best, I believe suspicion arose when they had the P6 multiple times on one ticket. THAT was the red flag. Who puts in a $6 P6?

That was the fatal faux pas....there were supposed to be three $2 tix (one for each of them) but the guy who put in the bets outsmarted himself. Although having three winning tix on the same account would've raised a red flag too. Now three tix on three different accounts....hmmm.

And someone with system admin privileges on the tote company system could be cashing "uncashed" tickets yet today.

[takeout]

I believe suspicion arose when they had the P6 multiple times on one ticket. THAT was the red flag. Who puts in a $6 P6?
That’s like the Valentine’s Day fix at Bowie in ’75 where the winning tri box was purchased 38 times at the same window in one transaction. :D

[fmhealth]

Does anyone truly believe that something along these lines is NOT going on at this very moment?

[Bettowin]

Forget the P6 scam. They could have gone on for years making and cashing uncashed tickets the day they became void and the chance of being caught were slim to none. Could have chosn their tax free income every week but of course got greedy.

[takeout]

And someone with system admin privileges on the tote company system could be cashing "uncashed" tickets yet today.And some probably are. I’ve been reading about this kind of stuff for decades. My favorite is the one where the guys were printing their own winning tri (or super?) ticket every night at some dog track. I can only imagine how many stories of this type have never seen the light of day. Makes one wonder what the REAL “takeout” actually adds up to.

[takeout]

Forget the P6 scam. They could have gone on for years making and cashing uncashed tickets the day they became void and the chance of being caught were slim to none.Exactly. I think that dog track thing went on for a long time and it was just a fluke that they were caught. Could have gone on forever.

[Cangamble]

Forget the P6 scam. They could have gone on for years making and cashing uncashed tickets the day they became void and the chance of being caught were slim to none. Could have chosn their tax free income every week but of course got greedy.
It could have been caught if someone got wise at all the tickets that were being cashed at certain kiosks.
Especially if they looked at the tickets the machine accepted and saw "Test Ticket" on them.

[Bettowin]

It could have been caught if someone got wise at all the tickets that were being cashed at certain kiosks.
Especially if they looked at the tickets the machine accepted and saw "Test Ticket" on them.

They knew that the tickets taken out of the self betting machines went into bags and were dated. The location they used destroyed tickets in those bags after a set date (i think 6 months) without ever opening the bags or looking at the tickets. With that knowledge they could keep doing it until there was a policy change.

[statepierback]

I watched something similar years ago on the Discovery channel or somewhere. While the 'structure' was odd at best, I believe suspicion arose when they had the P6 multiple times on one ticket. THAT was the red flag. Who puts in a $6 P6?
I've always thought they had some practice runs at the 2002 del mar meet prior to the Breeders Cup. I was on track the first Friday and after Corey Nakatani won the 2yo stakes race with a $108.00 winner I awaited the results after the final race. Trevor announced that there was one winning ticket with six winners. That ticket was purchased at the Catskills otb.
In Mid August, David Flores won the sixth race with a Matt Chew trained second time out maiden. In his first out this horse was dead last all the way around the track beaten 34 lengths. Not a horse one would find reading the Racing Form. One ticket cashed the Pick six that day for over $100,000. The ticket was purchased at the Catskills otb.
The following day the pre race handicappers mentioned frequently the Pick six money was leaving the state because of the GOOD Handicappers at the upperstate New York otb.
The third Saturday in August had a carryover that was hit by six tickets. The Racing Form reported that one ticket was on track, one in Texas one in Florida. The other three were purchased at the Catskills otb!
Perhaps that's where the idea of a six dollar pick six bet was born?

[Rapid Grey]

Heard one time about a mutuel manager in Florida that would print out a winning ticket for himself about once a week for no more than $1,000. Was told he had been doing it for decades but stopped in the late 90's when technology started to catch up with the systems.

The biggest farce about the whole Pick 6 scandal was getting Rudi Giulianni (sp?)and his cronies to investigate the integrity of the tote systems, or something along those lines. Talk about a smoke screen. Those guys were not going to find anything if they wanted to.

Next time something needs to be investigated behind the scenes let Mike Maloney, or someone else at HANA, be involved or make the decision.

[statepierback]

I agree the investigation was a farce. Just a a cover up to protect the horse racing industry from further damage. I read that James Quinn was on that panel but obviously that didn't help. I think the full story was just to painful to reveal.

[MzDucat]

It was a $12 straight ticket. Sort of like a 6 legged thoroughbred. If you bet a real $12 bet it would have 6 separate random access numbers on the bottom of the ticket. This puppy had one random access number. My cat would have caught it but he was busy washing his parts.

But that $12 sure stands out when you're surfing the data to change the horses after the first 4 legs have already run. Oh, it surely do. And it is a phone a bet ticket, created when phone a bet was new and few people could install the backup system, much less run a dianostic to test its vulnerability. Offered to but was told we might be allowed to do those things if we didn't expect to be paid. Would have liked to have had a crack at it to see the setup but was getting damn tired of freebies to ungrateful jerks.

But you also have to separate the data (horse numbers) from the pool (bucks bet). Hard? Wrote a protype to show my boss at harness in the 80's. He said he didn't care because the monitors can't find their car in the lot-his words not mine. But at least we never allowed guys to send the data at a different time than the pool.

Warned a guy in Tax and Finance named McClosky...he was snotty about the fake ticket concept. AFTER they "slipped the you guys the Volponi" he made speeches like he knew all along. Hope someone asks him when such knowledge came to a genius who never worked at a track. He can call me a liar if he reads this but Edna May Reilly and her old staff know too. Some people aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. My family says yeah, but he still made the big bucks. Also true. This stuff is what it is.

About the uncashed tickets...do you really think a guy or two or three or four never came in between Jan 1st and March 31st a year later and found out his winner was already redeemed? $80,000 doesn't seem a high enough number to me.

[MzDucat]

By the way I noticed it before the Volponi incident. I noticed that some of the Catskill pools ended in a 1,3,,5,7,or a 9. Got all excited for a few moments thinking the NY guys let someone start selling a ticket for a buck.
Planned on telling my boss how to be the next one with permission. Until I started to poke and prod. Never mentioned it to anyone but the track announcer.

Checked their meeting minutes, nothing there. Fished, found out it didn't happen. Dragged the track annnouncer on a fact finding road trip on a Tuesday. Checked Monticello first. Everything OK there. Smart mutuel director. Next checked Catskill. $2 bucks at window. $2 bucks at self betting. Could bet all sorts of Pick 6 amounts on phone a bet. They don't mention the boys cashed at least twice. Would wear Daisy Dukes to the meeting if they let me paw through the archives for just 3 days.

Reality 101, the egos are too frail to go there.

Those who can't do minimize the talents of others by making cracks about fantasy bootie calls that gave us our careers. But it keeps them from having to hire talent who might ask "If phone a bet was a new thing would it have really embarassed ya'll to ask for a demo and some instruction on the workings?"

No we don't really know it all in this industry. But some of us are humble enough to ask. We learn new stuff virtually every day.

[slew101]

The most bizarre thing, to me, was the guy had to show up at autotote on his day off, log in and make a call saying he erased something. Once they red-flagged the ticket, he was cooked by being in there when he shouldn't.

[MzDucat]

Actually, I found it bizarre that he wasn't required to work on one of the busiest days of the year. I never ever even got a Thanksgiving off. They acted like their mom was on a respirator and I was the only one who knew how to operate it.

My only two holidays in 17+ years were Easter and Christmas day. The Triple Crown, Breeders Cup, July 4th, Memorial, and Labor Days forget it.

Chris Harn was sauntering around K-Mart with his wife when it hit. He actually had the nerve to ask the state guys when his computer would be returned to him-he needed to start making resumes for a new job. The thought that would do a day in jail is indicitive of the true nature of computer theft in our industry. Tote guys who rip off tracks get relocated usually.

The head tote guys would sit in the room with me and say, "What fresh hell is the new guy?" I'd pick up a phone and contact someone at his last post I'd worked with someplace else. Five phone calls later and I would have a pretty good idea why he'd been moved.

Did you watch the "Masterminds" episode? My favorite part was where they claimed that he had some kind of program that ejected the disc from Newark, Delaware all the way to the Catskills in NY. LOL :lol: Yeah, my garage opener opens the hangar doors at Logan Airport. And like noone in the tote room would turn around when the disc popped out and say, "What the hell!" and pop it right back in. Yeah, he knew when he was walking around KMart in Delaware that noone would be in the Catskill Hub tote room on the busiest day of the year.

How about, "Because the board gave them permission to install the backup program at Catskill everyone on the board assumed that they would actually do it." How about the fact that it was never installed would be apparent to a guy like Chris. Perhaps the hub guys complained to him that they couldn't get anyone to do it for peanuts. Don't kid yourself guys, if you're in a Tote Room you know which locations your interacting with are bumfuzzled. It would be easy at his level to know which places had what technology. And what was sent and not yet installed.

And don't blame the tote guys. Boxes of tech crap comes to tracks. No disc with installation instructions. The top guys want a road trip. At their convenience. No manuals. God forbid you put it in writing. You might have to cover a shortage because your instructions were wrong or murky. So no manuals are status quo.

It sucks when you find out how sausages are made. Screw it, I'll eat them anyway. We all have to die of something.

[MzDucat]

Slew101:

Forgot why I logged on. To tell you that a brilliant but unsung wagering board employee named Erin caught him. She googled the winner and noticed the connection between the winner and the tote guy being in the same fraternity. Then she connected the other guy with a big win being part of that same fraternity. One of the few women on the NY board made the prima facia case. Ed Martin was the only guy I ever heard make a speech giving her a plaudit.

Wish I could tell you how many days on my "day off" I did two hours at my job. Not exactly an unusual move for high level employees. When your buds are being held responsible for bad stuff, you pop in-clock or no clock.