Website

[chickenhead]

Wanted to try and get thoughts from people regarding HANA standard website vs. HANA (google) blog format (similiar to Cangamble, Paul Moran, PullthePocket, etc.)

Either way would have its own strengths and weaknesses, my thoughts

Blog Strengths:
Free
Very Fast to Set up, easy to edit
strong blogger community

Blog Weaknesses:
blogs are viewed differently
google address
template based

Website Strengths:
can do whatever you want
your own address
thought of potentially as more than a blog

Website weakness:
time to build
not free



edit: hmmm...it appears you can use your own domain even while using the blogger template.

http://buzz.blogger.com/2007/01/blogger-custom-domains.html

that eliminates really my main concern, if I'm reading that right. It looks like they will host it for free.

[DeanT]

Just a quick point - it is not an either/or. Many folks set up a blog first to test the waters, get feedback, see what is popular and gain web content. The blog builds itself into your website. You weed out the bad, add the good. Since you already have a following it is a good thing.

For the first several months of discussion, mission statements and all the rest, feedback from members (and encouraging feedback from new lurkers) is paramount, imo. A website can not do that.

Here is an article on some of the pros. After six months or whatever, porting your blog over to a website is not difficult at all.

http://www.designersplayground.com/articles/129/1/Why-Use-Blogs-Instead-Of-Website/Page1.html

[DeanT]

Edit - yep chick. You can create HANA.com as whatever you want.

Here is a blog. It's free, has a url, looks like a website.

http://theaspiringhorseplayer.com/

Great blog by the way with much action. Kevin is a good writer. Kevin, you lurk here? Come aboard the HANA express, it needs people like you pal :)

[Indulto]

Gentlemen,

Excellent work.

It's clear that going the website route has gotten us nowhere to date.

Some of my concerns are:
1) Under what circumstances and duration is it "free?"
2) What level of technical expertise is required to maintain it?
3) If you collect a database, how secure is it, e.g, are visitors externally tracked, are their data marketed without our knowledge?
4) What legal responsibility applies to the collection of on-line data?
5) What type of organizational structure/legal entity is best for taking the next step?

It would be tremendous progress if we just got the mission statement out there ASAP to create some awareness of what we expect to accomplish.

BTW I neglected to include "Maintaining a ranking of horseplayer-friendly tracks for wagering consumers" at the top of the third list. Sorry, Rook.

My feeling is that people should have to log in to see that list.

[DeanT]

Good questions.

My best answers:

1) Under what circumstances and duration is it "free?"
Forever I think.
2) What level of technical expertise is required to maintain it?
None. It takes me about ten minutes to type and post a post. To get some of the stuff on the sides of the blog, post up a logo etc, it is actually kind of fun. No coding, no html. Guys like Cangamble and others are quite good at that. Takes very little time.
3) If you collect a database, how secure is it, e.g, are visitors externally tracked, are their data marketed without our knowledge?
I think we cant do that with a blog. There would be an email addy of course, so anyone who wants to join can do so via email? The rest of data collection etc would have to be saved until there is a website (imo). I doubt very much anything can be hidden etc. Unless someone knows differently.
4) What legal responsibility applies to the collection of on-line data?
Not sure.
5) What type of organizational structure/legal entity is best for taking the next step?
Everyone has to discuss it I guess and write something up.

[chickenhead]

it looks to me like wordpress is a lot more flexible than blogger. Their plug ins allow most anything it looks like. You do have to pay someone to host it, but $7 a month really isn't worth worrying about.

http://wordpress.org/

[DeanT]

I popped up some thoughts on Wiki. Goals of the site area.

I put people to work if we take this avenue. I hope they dont mind :)

[Indulto]

Good questions.

My best answers:

1) Under what circumstances and duration is it "free?"

Forever I think.

2) What level of technical expertise is required to maintain it?

None. It takes me about ten minutes to type and post a post. To get some of the stuff on the sides of the blog, post up a logo etc, it is actually kind of fun. No coding, no html. Guys like Cangamble and others are quite good at that. Takes very little time.

3) If you collect a database, how secure is it, e.g, are visitors externally tracked, are their data marketed without our knowledge?

I think we cant do that with a blog. There would be an email addy of course, so anyone who wants to join can do so via email? The rest of data collection etc would have to be saved until there is a website (imo). I doubt very much anything can be hidden etc. Unless someone knows differently.

4) What legal responsibility applies to the collection of on-line data?

Not sure.

5) What type of organizational structure/legal entity is best for taking the next step?

Everyone has to discuss it I guess and write something up.
Thanks, DT.

So we can at least collect e-mail addresses, right?

What about log-ins and sending them a unique password in the confirming e-mail?

What about a human-interface detection facility to prevent hacked/bot log-ins?

Does the blog software have a way to capture the state from which the url is located? It occurred to me that it might be helpful to know where our strength was concentrated. If no database per se is associated, could State ID/No could be appeded to the password generated?

[Cangamble]

it looks to me like wordpress is a lot more flexible than blogger. Their plug ins allow most anything it looks like. You do have to pay someone to host it, but $7 a month really isn't worth worrying about.

http://wordpress.org/
I tried wordpress once, and didn't find it as user friendly as blogger.
The only advantage I saw with wordpress was in regards to blocking IPs of problem commenters. We won't have to worry about that, I don't think.
Plus Dean and I know how to operate under Blogger, so I say Blogger.

[Cangamble]

Here is a pretty detailed comparison of Blogger versus Wordpress:
http://pulsed.blogspot.com/2007/07/blogger-wordpress-chart.html

Remember, we are looking at this as temporary to see if we should move on to a more sophisticated way of doing it.

[Indulto]

Here is a pretty detailed comparison of Blogger versus Wordpress:
http://pulsed.blogspot.com/2007/07/blogger-wordpress-chart.html

Remember, we are looking at this as temporary to see if we should move on to a more sophisticated way of doing it.From the linK:... I notice you included your email address in your comment. I'm wondering if you realize that email spammers use automated software 'bots' to harvest email addresses from websites. If you would like to re-post your comment without it, I can delete the original comment. ...

[DeanT]

Thanks, DT.

So we can at least collect e-mail addresses, right?

What about log-ins and sending them a unique password in the confirming e-mail?

What about a human-interface detection facility to prevent hacked/bot log-ins?

Does the blog software have a way to capture the state from which the url is located? It occurred to me that it might be helpful to know where our strength was concentrated. If no database per se is associated, could State ID/No could be appeded to the password generated?
If you want people to sign up vial a blog email, say to whatever@HANA.com they can that way. A web based form is not available (I think!)

Logins to a password protected area I do not think we can do either.

Web traffic is by city and state and all that info is free.

In general a blog is a starter version of a website. The bells and whistles are not quite up to snuff, but it might serve the purpose in getting this off the ground and having a bit of a following, all the while coming up with the HANA platform.

[Indulto]

If you want people to sign up vial a blog email, say to whatever@HANA.com they can that way. A web based form is not available (I think!)

Logins to a password protected area I do not think we can do either.

Web traffic is by city and state and all that info is free.

In general a blog is a starter version of a website. The bells and whistles are not quite up to snuff, but it might serve the purpose in getting this off the ground and having a bit of a following, all the while coming up with the HANA platform.No, I want their actual e-mail address to be able to reach them directly to let them know about some cyberevent we may be coordinating. ;)

[Cangamble]

I also find that google searches are kinder to blogger blogs than wordpress blogs.

Google "track takeout"

[chickenhead]

looking at the wordpress plug-ins, all of this stuff is available. Forms, polls, login protected areas, and even tho we don't want one, there are discussion forum plug-ins for word press (as an example of what is possible). I realize its not going to be as easy to use as blogger, thats usually the trade off for more functions. But neophytes still seem to put up and manage some pretty fantastic looking wordpress sites. The other thing I like is a static homepage, directory structure, etc.

Here is a collection of "best" wordpress sites:

http://www.ndesign-studio.com/blog/wordpress/best-wordpress-sites/

I guess I'm thinking why not go with something that should be able to grow with us, but is still easy to get the basics up and running? As evidenced by these sites, you can do some pretty great things.

[highnote]

Guys,

My recommendation is to keep it simple. No logins. Just get people to sign up and collect their email addresses so they can be kept up to date on important issues. Later, the website can evolve and logins can be required.

We don't need to build some elaborate interactive experience around the HANA brand from the very beginning. Let's just get the friggin' website up and running. :ThmbUp:

Once the website is up we can do some or all of the things that follow -- starting with the simplest and evolving as our membership grows.

Driving an audience to our website by using sustained and prominent URL promotion in print via press releases and blogs, etc, is an ongoing process and is something that can be done simply at first. But it needs to be done continually until we reach a critical mass.

We live in an increasingly social and connected world and building a membership base is critical. We need to clearly define what our members expect and value from the HANA organization.

Our members are active all over the web and spend most of their time elsewhere. Is there a way we can go to where they are to attract them?

Once we attract visitors to our site we have to constantly engage them. This will strengthen their psychological and emotional investment in the organization. We need our members to go from participation to advocacy. As organizers we need to see the whole picture so that we can enable this process.

We may want them to interact with the site via uploads of photos, videos or blogs.

We can drive them to the site externally with Facebook or Youtube, etc.

We need to influence our members and help them to become ambassadors for the organization so that they encourage fellow horseplayers to become members.

This is all commonsense. PA has done a great job on some or all of these points. But it helps to spell it out so we have a path to follow.

We're trying to build a community of like-minded people with a common goal and a shared sense of purpose.

A successful online community will only thrive if the interests and needs of our members are served. The best community starts with the customer. Are you reading this Mr. F--- the Horseplayers Racing Executive? :kiss:

Understanding our members motives will tell us what content and social tools we should be delivering.

We need to define our objective for forming the community by listening to what our members are saying; spreading a message about our organization; energizing our members so they become ambassadors and spread the word and create action; providing tools to support our members and let our members support one another.

It's crucial that our strategy enhances our members experience.

All technology decisions must follow our parameters -- not the other way around. For example, allowing uploads without a purpose is not valuable.

There are so many reasons to develop an energized community. We'll get more members, we'll increase donations if/when the time comes, we'll actually decrease our marketing expense (time is money), decrease content creation costs (time is money) and develop member satisfaction.

It seems so obvious, I can not understand why more racetracks aren't doing these simple things to build their community. Do they think the 1940's are going to return? Hello?

[Indulto]

Guys,

My recommendation is to keep it simple. No logins. Just get people to sign up and collect their email addresses so they can be kept up to date on important issues. Later, the website can evolve and logins can be required.

We don't need to build some elaborate interactive experience around the HANA brand from the very beginning. Let's just get the friggin' website up and running. :ThmbUp:

Once the website is up we can do some or all of the things that follow -- starting with the simplest and evolving as our membership grows.

Driving an audience to our website by using sustained and prominent URL promotion in print via press releases and blogs, etc, is an ongoing process and is something that can be done simply at first. But it needs to be done continually until we reach a critical mass.

We live in an increasingly social and connected world and building a membership base is critical. We need to clearly define what our members expect and value from the HANA organization.

Our members are active all over the web and spend most of their time elsewhere. Is there a way we can go to where they are to attract them?

Once we attract visitors to our site we have to constantly engage them. This will strengthen their psychological and emotional investment in the organization. We need our members to go from participation to advocacy. As organizers we need to see the whole picture so that we can enable this process.

We may want them to interact with the site via uploads of photos, videos or blogs.

We can drive them to the site externally with Facebook or Youtube, etc.

We need to influence our members and help them to become ambassadors for the organization so that they encourage fellow horseplayers to become members.

This is all commonsense. PA has done a great job on some or all of these points. But it helps to spell it out so we have a path to follow.

We're trying to build a community of like-minded people with a common goal and a shared sense of purpose.

A successful online community will only thrive if the interests and needs of our members are served. The best community starts with the customer. Are you reading this Mr. F--- the Horseplayers Racing Executive? :kiss:

Understanding our members motives will tell us what content and social tools we should be delivering.

We need to define our objective for forming the community by listening to what our members are saying; spreading a message about our organization; energizing our members so they become ambassadors and spread the word and create action; providing tools to support our members and let our members support one another.

It's crucial that our strategy enhances our members experience.

All technology decisions must follow our parameters -- not the other way around. For example, allowing uploads without a purpose is not valuable.

There are so many reasons to develop an energized community. We'll get more members, we'll increase donations if/when the time comes, we'll actually decrease our marketing expense (time is money), decrease content creation costs (time is money) and develop member satisfaction.

It seems so obvious, I can not understand why more racetracks aren't doing these simple things to build their community. Do they think the 1940's are going to return? Hello?Well said. :ThmbUp:

[DeanT]

Really nice post SJ.

Seems some agree. If so, Chick want to do a simple mock up on blogger/wordpress? If once it is up we continue with it and roll, great. If we retweak the website idea, fine as well.

[chickenhead]

sure, lets roll out a blogger site. If we want fast and simple, thats the way to go. Do you guys know how to give multiple accounts editing privileges?

My team at work was cut by 25% yesterday, I'm going to be busier than normal for awhile. I don't want to own the whole process.

Since I'm more interested in a more proper site (for my own learning as well, I'd like to learn wordpress), maybe I can could work on that in the background with some other guys so it would be ready in a couple months if we decide to go that route, while others manage the blogger site.

[highnote]

sure, lets roll out a blogger site. If we want fast and simple, thats the way to go. Do you guys know how to give multiple accounts editing privileges?

My team at work was cut by 25% yesterday, I'm going to be busier than normal. I don't want to own the whole process.


That sounds great.

[chickenhead]

OK I set up a blogger for this.

I'm sending John, Dean, and Cangamble the administrator info now so they can log into it, anyone else wants to pitch (the more the merrier) let me know.

I don't want to post it publicly for obvious reasons.

[highnote]

My team at work was cut by 25% yesterday, I'm going to be busier than normal for awhile. I don't want to own the whole process.


CH,

Sorry to hear about your team.

If you could work on this an hour or two per week, that is probably plenty.

The rest of us can chip a couple hours per week, too. Which means I can't spend 2.5 hours at the HANA meetings and work on this site! There are only so many hours in a week.

This doesn't have to be the webspace that tops all webspaces. We just need to keep it rolling along. It won't take long until we have something really nice.

John

[DeanT]

John,

If you want to run the meetings, a few of us might volunteer to post info.

I volunteer for that. CG and a few others seem interested as well.

No use one person doing too much. Split the responsibility.

[highnote]

Dean,

That sounds good. I've never had a deadline I could make. :D

I don't mind making posts to the blog, but I'm not good at "putting out the chow". I can only write when something really moves me.

I have tremendous respect for journalists who can put out good copy week after week.

John

[Indulto]

Wow,

I woke up to find that HANA has a website.:jump:

Kudos to Chick, DT, CG, and Rook

I guess when mild-mannered SJ takes off his glasses and puts on his cape, things start to fly. ;) I can't wait for his editorial when that NYRA exec is outed.

Best news is that JP is back.

Man, I'm so pumped I'm going to rush out and get a Form for tomorrow and finally get that snail mail posted to GT. :lol:

[highnote]

Wow,

I woke up to find that HANA has a website.:jump:

Kudos to Chick, DT, CG, and Rook

I guess when mild-mannered SJ takes off his glasses and puts on his cape, things start to fly. ;) I can't wait for his editorial when that NYRA exec is outed.

Best news is that JP is back.

Man, I'm so pumped I'm going to rush out and get a Form for tomorrow and finally get that snail mail posted to GT. :lol:


The NYRA exec is just a symbol for many racing execs. However, there are other racing execs, like Boomman (sp?), that are 100% in tune with the players.

We can't expect every executive to have common sense. The best we can do is find the ones that do and work with them.

Think about it... which racetrack executive would you rather work with to help improve the industry -- Boomman or the NYRA exec whose attitude is F--- the Horseplayers?

Which executive do you think has the best chance of making a positive difference on the industry? The answer should be obvious.

[DeanT]

Welcome message.

Thoughts?

Welcome to HANA. We’re Horseplayers, Just Like You



You are at Santa Anita. It’s busy. I doubt you’d get a seat. You get a complimentary program for the day, and walk to your favorite section. You are greeted by a friendly face. “Your seat is right there sir, just like always” the usher tells you. You sit down, enjoy the races. You are a card carrying member of the Santa Anita Customer Club. You’re a regular. You are a client. You get your seat – you get treated with respect. And you are ‘only’ a two dollar bettor.



Meanwhile you are at home in Illinois. You are playing at your favorite ADW. You are a professional player. Your ADW offers you a price break on datafiles. They offer some excellent handicapping information. They offer you a fair price. Their interface is second to none. And they offer any track in North America on the menu – harness or thoroughbred, it does not matter. You can play what you want, when you want, and you play in one account. You are treated with respect.



If you think that is a stretch, well we do too. But we think we can help by offering proactive and positive change. The business has failed us and we as players have failed the business by not having our voices heard. It is time to take a stand.



You may read gripes on the following pages. But you will not read name-calling. We as horseplayers feel we are partners with tracks and horseman groups. Partners should not fight to get things done, they should work together to float all the boats in the ocean.



The site will be updated regularly with HANA news, opinions from some influential opinion makers in the game and much more. We have assembled a good list or writers to help. Views from both the professional and the small bettor will be promoted.



If you agree with us please join HANA. There is a link to the left entitled “View My Profile”. If you click that you will find an email address. Just send us an email with “Join HANA” in the subject box. Tell us your name, your place of residence and (this might seem to be an odd request) estimate your yearly handle. That is important. As we grow we want to have some sort of estimate of the handle represented by the group. We will have many millions and we want the racetracks to know this in our submissions to them and to document in any press releases. Please do not be reticent with this. It does not matter if you play $1000 a year, or $1 million a year. We are all horseplayers. Everyone’s voice is equal. All information requested is optional, however.



Thank you for reading, please comment on any of the stories, we want to hear from you. Enjoy the website and good luck at the windows.

[Indulto]

DT,
You can always count on me for this perspective. ;)

I endorse all but the following:

… You may read gripes on the following pages. But you will not read name-calling. We as horseplayers feel we are partners with tracks and horseman groups. Partners should not fight to get things done, they should work together to float all the boats in the ocean. …I’d prefer to see something that expresses the following more elegantly:You may read gripes on the following pages. But you will not read abusive name-calling. We as horseplayers feel we are partners with tracks and horseman groups. Partners should not fight to get things done, they should work together to float all the boats in the ocean.

That doesn’t mean we can’t or won’t occasionally poke fun at ourselves and our opposition, but we’ll stay within the bounds of decency when we do. We’re involved here because we love the game and the tremendous enjoyment and satisfaction it's capable of generating. We take racing’s problems very seriously, but we’ll try not to take ourselves too seriously.

[DeanT]

I like that. Consider it done.

[highnote]

DT,
You can always count on me for this perspective. ;)

I endorse all but the following:

[color=black]I’d prefer to see something that expresses the following more elegantly:


I agree, Indulto. Give credit where credit is due and criticism where criticism is due.

Same goes for HANA. If someone has a legitimate criticism it should be listened to.

[DeanT]

Speaking of poking fun at oneself, how can we not do that? I think I just ran second for the fifth time today. If we dont have a sense of humor, dont be a horseplayer :)

If it is alright with you guys I will probably post up the welcome later, and delete much of the test posts. I would love it if Chick and Jeff P could get the mission statement finished. I like what Chick posted on the other site. Nice mission.

Anyway, after that away to the races I think. It will evolve as time passes. Hopefully all will be well.

Catch you guys. I have some horses to bet to place for awhile ;)

PS: Post any comments on the last post on the site if you like. A few posts are up there on what to do.

[chickenhead]

in reading your post SJ, (which I think is great)...I think a good strategy for doing everything you mention is to host a blog for any member who wishes to have one (on the later website, thats not possible with blogger).

I can't think of any better way to give horseplayers a voice then to really give them a voice, anyone who wants one (and follows the TOS) has their own blog hosted by HANA, made as user friendly as possible. We can float highly rated entries (rated by members) to an index right on the first page. In other words, really let our members have a voice. For members who maintain their own blogs, let them mirror onto HANA.

I think we'd immediately have a rather vibrant community.

[highnote]

If it is alright with you guys I will probably post up the welcome later, and delete much of the test posts. I would love it if Chick and Jeff P could get the mission statement finished. I like what Chick posted on the other site. Nice mission.

Indulto has a good mission statement, too. I believe rrbauer made a few good suggestions on it, too.

[chickenhead]

Indultos statement is the one up at the site Dean is talking about.

[highnote]

in reading your post SJ, (which I think is great)...I think a good strategy for doing everything you mention is to host a blog for any member who wishes to have one (on the later website, thats not possible with blogger).

I can't think of any better way to give horseplayers a voice then to really give them a voice, anyone who wants one (and follows the TOS) has their own blog hosted by HANA, made as user friendly as possible. We can float highly rated entries (rated by members) to an index right on the first page. In other words, really let our members have a voice. For members who maintain their own blogs, let them mirror onto HANA.

I think we'd immediately have a rather vibrant community.

That's a great idea.

Do we let anyone say whatever they want (within TOS)? Or do we have some control over what gets posted?

Should a blogger be required to use their real name? Maybe it doesn't matter? In my opinion, I'm going to take a blogger more serious if I know they are not hiding behind a screen name. On the other hand, anyone can use a pen name.

[highnote]

Indultos statement is the one up at the site Dean is talking about.


Is Indulto's just a modification of JeffP's?

Does it contain rrbauer's changes?

[DeanT]

Whenever you guys get the final one, just send it to me and I can take care of that.

If anyone who is going to post news or whatever like the eloquent Indulto, please email and I can give you a primer. Anyone heard from Rook? I thought he might be able to post something the odd time as well on handicapping, or being a player.

Anyhoo, moving along.

And I just got another second at Woodbine. Smokin. :sleeping:

[chickenhead]

Is Indulto's just a modification of JeffP's?

Does it contain rrbauer's changes?

why don't you go have a look

http://groups.google.com/group/horseplayersassociation?hl=en

if you see something you want to change, change it.

[highnote]

why don't you go have a look

http://groups.google.com/group/horseplayersassociation?hl=en

if you see something you want to change, change it.


Sounds like a good plan.

[DeanT]

Been messing around between getting seconds. Oh I got a seventh last race....... anyway, feel free to check out the site. I employed some creative license on some links etc. Which is usually a bad thing.

Catch you guys later!

[Indulto]

why don't you go have a look

http://groups.google.com/group/horseplayersassociation?hl=en

if you see something you want to change, change it.Chick,
I'm a little confused. I thought DT and/or CG had indicated on the HANA site that JP had resumed an active role.

The following is the MOST RECENT version of my own draft based on JP's "unified voice" theme, and includes (underlined)
1) your editing and additions
2) my editing and additions
3) change to "single, more influential voice" from
"single, louder, more influential voice" in response to rrb's suggestion. My feeling is that "more influential" is still appropriate, so let's see if there's another alternative he and I can agree on, or the rest of you make the call.

Please post this for me on the wiki site and/or the website if it is still the statement we intend to use.

* * * * *
Mission Statement for Horseplayer’s Association of North America (HANA)

Our mission is to unite as many bettors of North American tracks as possible in order to speak with a single, more influential voice to the various entities that currently, but uncooperatively, control horse racing. This includes track management, horse owners, ADW management, and all levels of government.

The sport we love is dying primarily because each of the above is trying to increase its own share of every dollar wagered by horseplayers. The net result is that the game is not only becoming increasingly less competitive with other forms of gambling, but also difficult to enjoy because our ability to participate, our convenience, and our satisfaction are of no concern to those in charge. The recent congressional hearings made it clear that, while it is our money that drives the game, we have no say in how it is conducted.

We want to change that.


HANA’s Goals

Our immediate goal is to recruit as many members as soon as possible. The first step was the construction of this website; initially funded by a group of concerned members of the www.paceadvantage.com (http://www.paceadvantage.com/) racing forum.

To continually encourage participation in HANA, our founding principles are
1) Membership will always be free and never require more information than a valid e-mail address to participate
2) Ideas and opinions will always be welcome, and we will attempt to respond to every productive e-mail we receive.
3) Operating funds required for advertising, off-line communication, etc., will be voluntary, and a full open accounting will be provided to members quarterly.
4) Anyone wishing to expand their support and/or involvement will be able to engage individual staff directly.
5) Keep membership advised of organizational developments as frequently as possible
6) Survey membership regularly to keep our goals and priorities in alignment.

Upon achieving our immediate goals, we will pursue tasks including:
1) Maintain a ranking of horseplayer-friendly tracks for wagering consumers.
2) Continue to inform horseplayers of the problems that exist within the industry, and formulate strategies for addressing them.
3) Petition the various Other Industry StakeHolders (OISH)
4) Establish a dialogue with OISH
5) Report progress/problems in addressing HANA’s concerns with OISH
6) Exert collective influence as appropriate.
7) Encourage increased participation in the game as well as increased handle through horseplayer-friendly treatment
8) Support the establishment of a central governing authority over the racing industry that includes direct horseplayer representation.

The following sequence of issues reflects HANA's current priorities:
1) Effect a reduction in direct takeout to uniformly lower levels at all tracks or else allow ADWs and tracks to rebate competitively.
2) Make it possible for every in-home bettor to bet all tracks from a single account at his ADW vendor of choice.
3) Support the institution of uniform rules of racing including medication use policy
4) Establish a central governing authority for the industry to effect uniformity of rules and their enforcement, to ensure cooperation among tracks, and to create and maintain a customer-friendly environment for both offtrack and ontrack bettors.
5) Institute IRS withholding reform
6) Maximize the number of races that can be viewed "live" without conflicts.
7) Incentivize breeders to emphasize soundness and stamina over speed and precocity.
8) Provide the public with greater transparency regarding the physical status of each entrant.
9) Eliminate the arcane practice of breakage.
10) Promote an overhaul of the parimutuel systems employed to ensure the integrity of the pools.

Please remember this is a volunteer operation, and that we value any contribution of ideas and funding that will strengthen our collective influence with OISH.
* * * * *

[highnote]

Chick,
I'm a little confused. I thought DT and/or CG had indicated on the HANA site that JP had resumed an active role.

The following is the MOST RECENT version of my own draft based on JP's "unified voice" theme, and includes (underlined)
1) your editing and additions
2) my editing and additions
3) change to "single, more influential voice" from
"single, louder, more influential voice" in response to rrb's suggestion. My feeling is that "more influential" is still appropriate, so let's see if there's another alternative he and I can agree on, or the rest of you make the call.

Please post this for me on the wiki site and/or the website if it is still the statement we intend to use.

* * * * *
Mission Statement for Horseplayer’s Association of North America (HANA)

Our mission is to unite as many bettors of North American tracks as possible in order to speak with a single, more influential voice to the various entities that currently, but uncooperatively, control horse racing. This includes track management, horse owners, ADW management, and all levels of government.

The sport we love is dying primarily because each of the above is trying to increase its own share of every dollar wagered by horseplayers. The net result is that the game is not only becoming increasingly less competitive with other forms of gambling, but also difficult to enjoy because our ability to participate, our convenience, and our satisfaction are of no concern to those in charge. The recent congressional hearings made it clear that, while it is our money that drives the game, we have no say in how it is conducted.

We want to change that.


HANA’s Goals

Our immediate goal is to recruit as many members as soon as possible. The first step was the construction of this website; initially funded by a group of concerned members of the www.paceadvantage.com (http://www.paceadvantage.com/) racing forum.

To continually encourage participation in HANA, our founding principles are
1) Membership will always be free and never require more information than a valid e-mail address to participate
2) Ideas and opinions will always be welcome, and we will attempt to respond to every productive e-mail we receive.
3) Operating funds required for advertising, off-line communication, etc., will be voluntary, and a full open accounting will be provided to members quarterly.
4) Anyone wishing to expand their support and/or involvement will be able to engage individual staff directly.
5) Keep membership advised of organizational developments as frequently as possible
6) Survey membership regularly to keep our goals and priorities in alignment.

Upon achieving our immediate goals, we will pursue tasks including:
1) Maintain a ranking of horseplayer-friendly tracks for wagering consumers.
2) Continue to inform horseplayers of the problems that exist within the industry, and formulate strategies for addressing them.
3) Petition the various Other Industry StakeHolders (OISH)
4) Establish a dialogue with OISH
5) Report progress/problems in addressing HANA’s concerns with OISH
6) Exert collective influence as appropriate.
7) Encourage increased participation in the game as well as increased handle through horseplayer-friendly treatment
8) Support the establishment of a central governing authority over the racing industry that includes direct horseplayer representation.

The following sequence of issues reflects HANA's current priorities:
1) Effect a reduction in direct takeout to uniformly lower levels at all tracks or else allow ADWs and tracks to rebate competitively.
2) Make it possible for every in-home bettor to bet all tracks from a single account at his ADW vendor of choice.
3) Support the institution of uniform rules of racing including medication use policy
4) Establish a central governing authority for the industry to effect uniformity of rules and their enforcement, to ensure cooperation among tracks, and to create and maintain a customer-friendly environment for both offtrack and ontrack bettors.
5) Institute IRS withholding reform
6) Maximize the number of races that can be viewed "live" without conflicts.
7) Incentivize breeders to emphasize soundness and stamina over speed and precocity.
8) Provide the public with greater transparency regarding the physical status of each entrant.
9) Eliminate the arcane practice of breakage.
10) Promote an overhaul of the parimutuel systems employed to ensure the integrity of the pools.

Please remember this is a volunteer operation, and that we value any contribution of ideas and funding that will strengthen our collective influence with OISH.
* * * * *


We need to finalize the mission statement. It says membership will always be free, for instance. Will it? If we can't guarantee it, maybe we shouldn't say it. Someone, someday, will call us on it.

I will print this out and study it this weekend. I'll be off line for a few days. Starting tomorrow. Will catch up with you all on Mon or Tue.

[highnote]

The mission statement should also state (if it doesn't already) that we are not beholden to corporate interests. We represent horseplayers.

We don't represent fans, or ADWs or Racetracks, or racetrack associations, or journals or periodicals. We only represent the interests of horseplayers.

And if we ever do accept membership fees it will only be from horseplayers.

That said, we still have a of goal getting the various factions to sit down and work together for the betterment of the industry, in general, and the horseplayer, specifically.

[Indulto]

We need to finalize the mission statement. It says membership will always be free, for instance. Will it? If we can't guarantee it, maybe we shouldn't say it. Someone, someday, will call us on it.

I will print this out and study it this weekend. I'll be off line for a few days. Starting tomorrow. Will catch up with you all on Mon or Tue.I think there should always be a caregory of basic, non-voting membership that only receives general information or recruitment e-mails that is always free. I think PBS is a good analogy.The mission statement should also state (if it doesn't already) that we are not beholden to corporate interests. We represent horseplayers.

We don't represent fans, or ADWs or Racetracks, or racetrack associations, or journals or periodicals. We only represent the interests of horseplayers.

And if we ever do accept membership fees it will only be from horseplayers.

That said, we still have a of goal getting the various factions to sit down and work together for the betterment of the industry, in general, and the horseplayer, specifically.Does that mean we can't accept anonymous donations?

Consider this edit:Our mission is to unite as many bettors of North American tracks as possible in order to speak with a single, more influential voice to the various entities that currently, but uncooperatively, control horse racing. This includes track management, horse owners, ADW management, and all levels of government.

{---------------------------------------------------}

Please keep in mind that HANA is a volunteer operation, and that while we value any contribution of ideas and funding that will strengthen our collective influence with OISH, we will only accept donations and fees (if required) from horseplayers.

We will not represent any commercial or governmental interests, tracks, racing associations, ADWS, horsemens' groups, breeders' groups, or even other racing/equine fans who are not bettors.

[DeanT]

I dont think having a paypal account set up for donations is a bad thing. Maybe get some pens or hats made or something to give away to members the odd time. Anyhow, just a thought.

Cangamble got up the technorati and the sitemeter I see, so things are looking good on the website.

[chickenhead]

I put some suggested edits to the Welcome on the wiki (wiki wiki wiki), just clean up mainly.

[Indulto]

While I agree that HANA cannot represent any ADW, virtually all of us are PTC supporters, and several are actually customers (though, possibly, not exclusively). As far as I can tell, most people here who mention PTC in their posts are supportive of that vendor, and those of them who are eligible to use PTC probably do so.

So how do we balance this potential bias?

First, we have to agree that lower direct takeout would be our first choice. Second, we would have to be willing to support any ADW that offered cash rewards to non-whales.

But we should also agree to oppose governments, tracks, racing associations, and horsemens' groups that exclude any ADWs we consider horseplayer-friendly.

Any comments?

[Cangamble]

I dont think having a paypal account set up for donations is a bad thing. Maybe get some pens or hats made or something to give away to members the odd time. Anyhow, just a thought.

Cangamble got up the technorati and the sitemeter I see, so things are looking good on the website.
I also got us hooked up with Feedburner

[DeanT]

While I agree that HANA cannot represent any ADW, virtually all of us are PTC supporters, and several are actually customers (though, possibly, not exclusively). As far as I can tell, most people here who mention PTC in their posts are supportive of that vendor, and those of them who are eligible to use PTC probably do so.

So how do we balance this potential bias?

First, we have to agree that lower direct takeout would be our first choice. Second, we would have to be willing to support any ADW that offered cash rewards to non-whales.

But we should also agree to oppose governments, tracks, racing associations, and horsemens' groups that exclude any ADWs we consider horseplayer-friendly.

Any comments?

Thanks CG.

Tough call I.

I would say we just do not mention anything in terms of throwing support behind a certain ADW. That does not stop us from being supportive of principles of places like Ian's. In fact for the website I think there is nothing wrong with an "Interview with Ian Meyers" for example. The members can decide who is what in this business, by reading something like that, and staying informed.

JMO.
PS: It also does not stop us in interviewing, or getting the views of Youbet, or Day at the Track either, in terms of their treatment of the player.

[Indulto]

Thanks CG.

Tough call I.

I would say we just do not mention anything in terms of throwing support behind a certain ADW. That does not stop us from being supportive of principles of places like Ian's. In fact for the website I think there is nothing wrong with an "Interview with Ian Meyers" for example. The members can decide who is what in this business, by reading something like that, and staying informed.

JMO.
PS: It also does not stop us in interviewing, or getting the views of Youbet, or Day at the Track either, in terms of their treatment of the player.Good thinking.

PTC should hold a press conference in the war room! :lol:

[Cangamble]

I just added a bunch of links, and an extreme tracker which gives data on unique visitors by the day, week, month.

If anyone in admin wants to add links, just do it.
If anyone else has link suggestions, let us know.

If anyone wants to advertise. We haven't really discussed it yet. As long as it doesn't conflict with the goals of the group, I'm sure we can work something out.

Also, if we want to keep the mission statement as the top link, all we have to do is edit the date posted to a future date many months or even years from today.

[highnote]

does that mean we can't accept anonymous donations


HANA already has. I don't know if it's from an individual or organization.

It's fine if HANA admin want to do that, but it could make it harder to be unbiased.

Hypothetically speaking, if Ford Motor company is the top advertiser on the ABC television network. Is ABC more likely or less likely to do a feature story on the danger of Ford's top selling SUV rolling over?

All I'm saying is that taking money from corporate interests makes it harder to have an independent voice. If the organization is biased towards a particular organization, horseplayers will see right through it and HANA's credibility will go right out the window.

That said, there is nothing wrong with being biased towards the best organizations in the business. But even the best can improve. And same goes for HANA -- there is a lot of room for improvement.

And HANA should not be fear a conflict of interest or a sense of being beholden to an organization when it comes to commenting on where improvement is needed.

[highnote]

Love that picture on the horseplayerassociation.blogspot. I knew right away it was Mountaineer -- my favorite track. The photo must be taken from the far turn of the backstretch looking back to the left of the clubhouse.

[Cangamble]

Love that picture on the horseplayerassociation.blogspot. I knew right away it was Mountaineer -- my favorite track. The photo must be taken from the far turn of the backstretch looking back to the left of the clubhouse.
I have a problem putting up Mountaineer's pic because of the horse slaughter documentary. It might turn some people off.

[highnote]

I have a problem putting up Mountaineer's pic because of the horse slaughter documentary. It might turn some people off.

What documentary is that? I thought horse slaughter was banned?

That's an issue HANA could take up -- making sure HANA gets a commitment from racetracks that owners who race at their track will not sell to the killer man (as he was referred to when I was racing at MNR).

HANA can put on its website that it is working to ensure tracks like Mountaineer support HANA's efforts to prevent the slaughter of race horses.

In this day and age, it shouldn't be hard to get that commitment from MNR. And if they don't get behind HANA, the members will have plenty to say about it.

[Indulto]

Is it premature to plug the website address on other blogs?

[Cangamble]

Horse slaughter isn't banned in Canada or Mexico, and that is where they take em.
Here is the documentary. Warning, it isn't for the faint of heart:
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/05/espn-documentary-on-horse-slaughter.html

[highnote]

Is it premature to plug the website address on other blogs?

I was wondering the same thing. I told some racing friends about it.

The site looks good. Is there anything left on there that was part of the demo site that should be removed?

The sooner the site is promoted, the better.

I'm done for the day. Will respond late tonight.

[Indulto]

http://www.thorofan.com/board.html

Talk about commercial interests! :lol:

I was referred to this site in a comment dialogue in response to a John Pricci column.

I thought I would respond with HANA's address, if its ok with everybody else

[highnote]

Horse slaughter isn't banned in Canada or Mexico, and that is where they take em.
Here is the documentary. Warning, it isn't for the faint of heart:
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/05/espn-documentary-on-horse-slaughter.html


We need to pick a winnable battle and go after it. Let's prioritize the top issues and then pick one we can easily win. It would be good for HANA to get a win under its belt.

I'm not saying horse slaughter can't be won. It should be on the list. Let's discuss.

[highnote]

http://www.thorofan.com/board.html

Talk about commercial interests! :lol:

I was referred to this site in a comment dialogue in response to a John Pricci column.

I thought I would respond with HANA's address, if its ok with everybody else


That's what I was thinking -- they are being run just the opposite of the way HANA aims to be run.

[DeanT]

I have it on my signature. Can all HANA people do the same? I think it is fine as it is, the Mission is up and it looks alright to me thus far. A blog is a work in progress.

As for Mountaineer, they do not have much to do with a couple of trainers who were featured on horse slaughter. And every track picture we put up will have slaughter, so we would not even have a picture. This to me is most important about Mountaineer. If all were like this, we might not even need HANA, imo.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/RW082307.asp

Sunnyvale, CA:
Mountaineer is one of those independent tracks that are aligned neither with TVG or TrackNet. What is Mountaineer's position on the current ADW impasse between TVG and TrackNet? Are you an advocate for open access and allowing as many ADW's as possible to get your signal? What role do independent tracks like Mountaineer have in bringing a resolution to this matter that is only hurting the customer in the end?

Williams:
Mountaineer has never signed an exclusive contract with an ADW. When TVG asked us to sign an exclusive contract during our earlier years of export we decided it was in our best interest to offer the signal to all the ADW services. Unfortunately our races were partially shown by TVG but we believe that we made the right decision. MTR Gaming which owns Scioto Downs Inc. formed a subsidiary of Scioto named RacelineBet.com to offer ADW. RacelineBet.com is marketing affiliate of AmericaTab the intent of MTR was to increase revenue and awareness of the MTR tracks. We still offer our signal to all ADW we believe open access benefits all the MTR tracks.

[Indulto]

That's what I was thinking -- they are being run just the opposite of the way HANA aims to be run.I'd like to see JPs stuff that DT had up there yesterday reorganized into a section entitled "Where racing is broken," if it's still available, before I post that response.

Anybody in contact with JP?

Also why isn't the HOSERACEinsider site mentioed along with Paul Moran's? Do we need permision to display any of those links?

[DeanT]

I'd like to see JPs stuff that DT had up there yesterday reorganized into a section entitled "Where racing is broken," if it's still available, before I post that response.

Anybody in contact with JP?

Also why isn't the HOSERACEinsider site mentioed along with Paul Moran's? Do we need permision to display any of those links?
I have not heard from Jeff, but his post about HANA is one that should be a post on the website. Whenever he writes something up, he should have admin access to post it. Good writer.

As for 'commercial interests' I personally would enjoy it if Dave S, or Jeff P would be (or being HANA) members might in the future offer $50 off their software, or whatever for members only. That kind of stuff is how these things can grow a bit. JMO on that, but featuring player friendly deals is what we are all about. We wnat our members to be informed, and have some benefits from being members. It helps them win more money and be a long term player (again JMO).

Links can be added from anywhere I. In the interface just click the link box and we can add them whenever we want.

[trigger]

I just caught up with your collective endeavors in establishing HANA...... Props to you guys for a lot of hard work and great, well considered, and professional approach !
PLEASE KEEP IT UP!
Just one thing that I would respectfully submit for your consideration concerns item #7 on the website: "Incentivize breeders to emphasize soundness and stamina over speed and precocity".....I would suggest that this objective be strengthened a little bit to underscore our mutual respect and concern the overall health and well being for one of the major participants in our sport...the horses.

[mannyberrios]

Just joined. Looks pretty good to me!

[Charlie D]

Looks good to me too


All the best H.A.N.A

[highnote]

Thanks for joining! Your suggestions are welcomed.

[Indulto]

Thanks for joining! Your suggestions are welcomed.
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/07092008-whats-big-brown-trying-to-tell-us/ (http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/07092008-whats-big-brown-trying-to-tell-us/)

... 9. Indulto says: 12 Jul 2008 at 11:03 pm | # (http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/07092008-whats-big-brown-trying-to-tell-us/#c11554#c11554)… Thanks for the link. It’s interesting to see what adequate funding can accomplish. However, I’m not sure it’s what the “disenfranchised” horseplayer is looking for.

With far less funding, and a determination to steer clear of interests not aligned with those of the bettor, some of us at http://www.paceadvantage.com (http://www.paceadvantage.com/) are attempting to organize and get our view of the game out there for others to consider. We’re not yet fully defined and operational, but perhaps if we can get other passionate players like wmc involved, the sooner we will be. Take a look at http://horseplayersassociation.blogspot.com/ (http://horseplayersassociation.blogspot.com/)
to see if our thinking so far is of interest to you. Turf writing wagerers are always welcome.

[Greyfox]

So I tried to subscribe.


I gave my e-mail.

I was then asked, in order to prevent spam, to punch in the letters on the screen that were something like:

q r v u e

So I punched them in.

And kept being asked to do it again with

s y Q x i

and so on.

Having done that a half a dozen times, I still couldn't subscribe.

Am I alone in that problem.

[highnote]

Just one thing that I would respectfully submit for your consideration concerns item #7 on the website: "Incentivize breeders to emphasize soundness and stamina over speed and precocity".....I would suggest that this objective be strengthened a little bit to underscore our mutual respect and concern the overall health and well being for one of the major participants in our sport...the horses.


Agreed. The horses come first.

[Indulto]

So I tried to subscribe.


I gave my e-mail.

I was then asked, in order to prevent spam, to punch in the letters on the screen that were something like:

q r v u e

So I punched them in.

And kept being asked to do it again with

s y Q x i

and so on.

Having done that a half a dozen times, I still couldn't subscribe.

Am I alone in that problem.GF,
Basically it's just a mockup to see how things look and not a functioning site yet. We just want to get people thinking about us and what we hope to accomplish for now.

Thanks for bringing it to DT's and CG's attention. I'm sure they will address it when they have time.

An incredible amount has been accomplished since last Wednesday night's meeting, and they Chick and SJ deserve a lot of credit.

I guess we should really thank that NYRA exec. :lol:

[highnote]

I signed up earlier today and didn't have any trouble. Not sure what would cause that.

I didn't put any spaces between the letter.

So I typed something like:

ghvkwl

rather than

g h v k w l

[highnote]

GF,
Basically it's just a mockup to see how things look and not a functioning site yet. We just want to get people thinking about us and what we hope to accomplish for now.

Thanks for bringing it to DT's and CG's attention. I'm sure they will address it when they have time.

An incredible amount has been accomplished since last Wednesday night's meeting, and they Chick and SJ deserve a lot of credit.

I guess we should really thank that NYRA exec. :lol:


I think we can thank you for keeping us pissed off at NYRA and the rest of the racing industry for the past two years with all those articles you provide links to. LOL

[highnote]

In case you're interested...

Dean posted on the HANA blog an Op Ed piece I wrote.

Check it out. I'd appreciate any feedback -- positive or negative.

Thanks.

js

[Cangamble]

I put an email link on the sidebar, and changed around things a bit on the sidebar. Feel free to give feedback or change the wording.

Also, I put the Equiform link where it belongs, under pay handicapping sites.

I also added a link to horse race insider in the main links section.

[highnote]

I put an email link on the sidebar, and changed around things a bit on the sidebar. Feel free to give feedback or change the wording.

Also, I put the Equiform link where it belongs, under pay handicapping sites.

I also added a link to horse race insider in the main links section.


Good changes. Thanks.

[Indulto]

In case you're interested...

Dean posted on the HANA blog an Op Ed piece I wrote.

Check it out. I'd appreciate any feedback -- positive or negative.

Thanks.

jsExcellent explanation of how the current situation evolved.Agreed. The horses come first.I disagree. IMO it is hypocritical of horseplayers to say the horse comes first.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the horses came first, it seems to me they wouldn't be subjected to the perils of racing and training or the sting of the whip.

By placing a wager or even paying admission to a racetrack we consent to the way thoroughreds are treated which is subject to the whim of breeders and owners who can afford to play their roles in the game; some of whose wallets, in reality, come first.

The jockey's safety comes before that of the horse. It is in the horseplayer's interest for horses to be bred for soundness, treated well, and taken care of properly as that would make them less injury-prone, more competitive, more predictable, and more exciting to watch.

If the horse comes first, where is the horseplayer once the the race is over? Is he/she checking to see whether or not the horse they bet came out of the race OK, or is he analyzing performance data and wagering strategy for the next race. :D

I

[Indulto]

BECOME A MEMBER

We are the The Horseplayers Association of North America; simply concerned horseplayers, nothing more and nothing less. We are recruiting members for our community. Feel free to browse around, and should you find our group interesting and want to count yourself a member, simply EMAIL HANA (horseplayersassociation@gmail.com) Please indicate your name, your place of residence and your yearly handle. All information is confidential and member lists will not be published. We hope to have some benefits exclusive to HANA members soon. Thanks for joining us and good luck at the windows. Feel free to email suggestions as well, whether you are a member or not.IMO this is compounding the error DRF makes with its “free” subscription application – incentivizing people to exaggerate or diminish the entered value because they have no idea what is actually planned or might eventually be done with that information -- especially if associated with a name.

At least people know what the DRF is, they don’t yet know who or what HANA is. How can they be sure that info would remain confidential?

I think we should concentrate on just building membership. Once we actually have numbers worth talking about, we can do all these other things. IMO we should stick with e-mail address only for now.

Are we a horseplayer site or a marketing site?

[DeanT]

[color=windowtext]

Are we a horseplayer site or a marketing site?

In this day and age, they are one in the same. Without a plan, with both married to each other, you are dead before you start.

[Indulto]

In this day and age, they are one in the same. Without a plan, with both married to each other, you are dead before you start.I'm all for planning. :jump:

[DeanT]

On the web, permission marketing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permission_marketing), rather than old school interruption marketing rules. Since the handle figures are voluntary (it is not expected. If people do not want to give them, they do not have to and we state that clearly.)

I think planning to know exactly how many members HANA has can be worth its weight in gold. For example, on a press release, at the bottom something like this:

HANA is the Horseplayers Association of North America. Its membership consists of over 4000 horseplayers from all 50 states and two countries. It represents over $150 million dollars of yearly handle to the racing industry.

To me that gets noticed. Saying we are a bunch of ragtags with no numbers who just happen to have a website can get us eagerly dismissed, imo.

[rrbauer]

What comes first?

OUR MONEY!

It's the only thing in this equation that means something to everyone. The horsemen, the tracks/racing assoc, the state governments and we the horseplayers. It is the ONLY bargaining chip that we horseplayers have; and, it will be the only thing that will get us invited to the table if that is to ever happen.

[cj]

What comes first?

OUR MONEY!

It's the only thing in this equation that means something to everyone. The horsemen, the tracks/racing assoc, the state governments and we the horseplayers. It is the ONLY bargaining chip that we horseplayers have; and, it will be the only thing that will get us invited to the table if that is to ever happen.

I agree. This is why things like getting into breeding practices, horse welfare, etc., don't really interest me. The only thing that should matter to us is the betting side of the equation. There are others to worry about the other stuff.

[Indulto]

What comes first?

OUR MONEY!

It's the only thing in this equation that means something to everyone. The horsemen, the tracks/racing assoc, the state governments and we the horseplayers. It is the ONLY bargaining chip that we horseplayers have; and, it will be the only thing that will get us invited to the table if that is to ever happen.I agree. This is why things like getting into breeding practices, horse welfare, etc., don't really interest me. The only thing that should matter to us is the betting side of the equation. There are others to worry about the other stuff.Gentlemen,
I agree with you both. Now, how do we say that without sounding like THG members? ;)

[Indulto]

On the web, permission marketing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permission_marketing), rather than old school interruption marketing rules. Since the handle figures are voluntary (it is not expected. If people do not want to give them, they do not have to and we state that clearly.)

I think planning to know exactly how many members HANA has can be worth its weight in gold. For example, on a press release, at the bottom something like this:

HANA is the Horseplayers Association of North America. Its membership consists of over 4000 horseplayers from all 50 states and two countries. It represents over $150 million dollars of yearly handle to the racing industry.

To me that gets noticed. Saying we are a bunch of ragtags with no numbers who just happen to have a website can get us eagerly dismissed, imo.I agree that this is exactly the kind of thing we want to be able to say, but collecting handle and names in this manner will simply enable the opposition to dismiss the handle figure as inaccurate whereas once we have 4000 members we can e-mail them requesting that data, and perhaps other information, in order to legitimately measure our influence.

If we can attract 4000 e-mail addresses, we will subsequetly get accurate data when we request it. Except for opposition plants, that is. ;)

[Indulto]

Need a link to the leftatthegate blog.

[Cangamble]

I gave HANA a plug on my newest blog post:
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/07/day-at-races.html

[highnote]

Excellent explanation of how the current situation evolved.I disagree. IMO it is hypocritical of horseplayers to say the horse comes first.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the horses came first, it seems to me they wouldn't be subjected to the perils of racing and training or the sting of the whip.

By placing a wager or even paying admission to a racetrack we consent to the way thoroughreds are treated which is subject to the whim of breeders and owners who can afford to play their roles in the game; some of whose wallets, in reality, come first.

The jockey's safety comes before that of the horse. It is in the horseplayer's interest for horses to be bred for soundness, treated well, and taken care of properly as that would make them less injury-prone, more competitive, more predictable, and more exciting to watch.

If the horse comes first, where is the horseplayer once the the race is over? Is he/she checking to see whether or not the horse they bet came out of the race OK, or is he analyzing performance data and wagering strategy for the next race. :D

I

Good points.

[Indulto]

http://horseplayersassociation.blogspot.com/2008/07/opinion-low-takeouts-are-our-friend.html (http://horseplayersassociation.blogspot.com/2008/07/opinion-low-takeouts-are-our-friend.html)
Monday, July 14, 2008

Opinion: Low Takeouts Are Our Friend

... This opinion piece has been printed with permission from the Pull the Pocket (http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/) blog. He has joined HANA, as many of the principles he supports; and he, like all HANA members, wants to see the game grow and be a force in the 21st century gambling landscape.I think this is one of the best blog entries I have ever read.

Watch out, Paul Moran! ;)

[highnote]

I've signed up twice to be a member of HANA but got no confirmation that I became a member. And one person has emailed me to tell me that when he signed up he got no reply from the website that he was a member.

There must be a way for the blog to send an automated response to registrants with a welcome message and a thank you.

Anyone know how to set this up?

[BillW]

I've signed up twice to be a member of HANA but got no confirmation that I became a member. And one person has emailed me to tell me that when he signed up he got no reply from the website that he was a member.

There must be a way for the blog to send an automated response to registrants with a welcome message and a thank you.

Anyone know how to set this up?

We worked that out the other day (Friday aftn), it should be working now.

[highnote]

We worked that out the other day (Friday aftn), it should be working now.

Thanks Bill !

[highnote]

Bill,

I just re-signed up. I think it was successful, but I was taken to a page that gave this message:

"Page not found
Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog Horseplayers Association of North America does not exist.
Go to blog homepage"