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sq764
01-05-2005, 12:19 AM
I had always thought Mike Battaglia was by far the worst announcer at any track in North America.. Until today when I actually watched replays of Tampa Bay Downs.. Beyond the fact that the guy screams, he is calling horses that aren't even in the picture..

In race 5 today on the turf, he is calling the 8 horse a runaway winner at the top of the stretch and he gets run down and beat by 3 lengths.. It's making my ears bleed.

Buddha
01-05-2005, 01:29 AM
You should have heard his 4th race call. Horrible. That is all that can be said about it, and he couldnt hardly pronounce ferrari.

kingfin66
01-05-2005, 03:08 AM
I haven't heard the Tampa announcer, but it's hard to believe a worse announcer than Battaglia.

By the way, as I was suffering through another of his race calls this weekend, I had an epiphany regarding why he is so bad. It seems to me that he doesn't bother to, or is simply not able to, memorize the silks with the horses names. This means that when a horse makes a move, he would have to look down at his program for the name of the horse. The result is he will start calling the move, then there will be a long pause before he comes up with the name of the horse.

Horse racing announcers are, in my opinion, a big part of the game both for the entertainment factor and for the information factor. The bad ones make me appreciate the good ones that much more.

JustRalph
01-05-2005, 03:27 AM
Battaglia is pretty damn bad..............


Never Forget......................


Somebody is "Gaining Ground" in every race

cj
01-05-2005, 06:19 AM
The old Mnr guy was brutal, but he is retired, so he gets a pass. I think Battaglia is really, really bad. Its been awhile since I had TVG, so some are tough to recall. I'd like to see the Los Al guy get a t-bred gig, I think he'd be great.

Zman179
01-05-2005, 09:33 AM
Mike Battaglia is not a bad announcer IMO. It's not like he gets his calls wrong.

But Richard Grunder at Tampa Bay Downs is the absolute worst announcer in the game BY FAR. He's not only obnoxious, but he makes errors and he calls horses flying down the stretch when they're not even a threat to hit the board. There is absolutely noone worse than him.

Doc
01-05-2005, 10:55 AM
Philly Park's backup announcer, Pat Cummings, is terrible, too. Thankfully he doesn't work full-time.

I also have a problem with Vic Stauffer...I think he blabs too much and doesn't concentrate on the position of the horses. Grunder at Tampa also stinks.

sq764
01-05-2005, 10:56 AM
See, I really like Stauffer, I think he's good..

It's got to be tough at Hollywood Park to call a 4 horse turf race and try to make it somewhat exciting..

cj
01-05-2005, 11:04 AM
I hate Stauffer's "If XXX is going to win, he's going to have to make up 15 lengths in the final 1/4 mile to do it!"

I've never heard the Philly backup, but I love Keith Jones. Does a very good job, day in and day out. I used to here him at the Garden nightly. I think he even did the harness there, but not positive about that one. Maybe melman will know for sure.

Doc
01-05-2005, 12:03 PM
I think Jones is top-notch as well. Yes, he used to do some calling at Garden but not sure about harness. He's also the announcer for the Philadelphia Phantoms minor league hockey team that plays at the Wachovia Center.

rokitman
01-05-2005, 12:47 PM
Battaglia is pretty damn bad..............


Never Forget......................


Somebody is "Gaining Ground" in every race

Drives me nuts with that chronic "Gaaaaaininnnng grrrroounnnnd" and "They're riiiiiight togetherrrrrrrrr." Sounds like an old dopey-sounding cartoon character that I can't quite put my finger on.

sq764
01-05-2005, 01:05 PM
I think a top 5 worst announcer to add is the guy from Golden Gate, Tony Kalo (sp?)..

He's awful too.

Speed Figure
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
The old Mnr guy was brutal, but he is retired, so he gets a pass. I think Battaglia is really, really bad. Its been awhile since I had TVG, so some are tough to recall. I'd like to see the Los Al guy get a t-bred gig, I think he'd be great.I'm so happy that guy from Mnr is gone.
It's cj IN FRONT.he never said who came in 2nd or 3rd.

Buddha
01-05-2005, 01:57 PM
he never said who came in 2nd or 3rd.

Nor does the Penn National announcer, and I never hear any talk about him not doing it

RXB
01-05-2005, 02:04 PM
Unfortunately, in these times a thoroughbred player is often subjected against his will to the sights and sounds of harness racing. It is in this arena of rickshaw pullers where the worst of the worst are found. And the ruling Caesar Annoyance of the Ben-Hur world is Roger Houston at the Meadows. That man should not be allowed within 50 feet of a live microphone. Tough for me to handicap the 9th at Sunland while Roger is yelling "Onnnnnnnnne twennnnnny seven and threeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!" at the top of his lungs.

Speed Figure, if you didn't like Ol' Jim at Mnr, there's a harness announcer-- at Northfield, IIRC-- who mumbles incoherently for about two minutes and then leaves the bettors with "and there they are" at the wire. I guess his opinion is: figure it out for yourselves, I just work here.

Valuist
01-05-2005, 03:32 PM
One of the funniest things I've ever heard was the LaD announcer, who's name I can't recall, doing his imitations of racetrack callers. He started out as Denman, then I think Stauffer, then went into Battaglia as the field went "IN--TO the turn, up from the OUTSIDE, GAINING GROUND.." It was hilarious.

Doc
01-05-2005, 04:28 PM
Hey RXB, you made me laugh with your last post. When I first heard Roger Houston I thought he was very entertaining, but he gets old REAL fast. Now I think he's kinda pathethic and I wish he'd just call a race every once in a while like he wasn't hyped up on coke and caffeine. As for the "...and there they are!" announcer, I, too, am always left scratching my head as to what just transpired in a race when he calls it, and the announcer at Penn National always uses the word "then" in his calls. Like: "It's two lengths, then, to Mr. So and So."

Announcers on the bottom tier just make you appreciate the good ones even more. I was watching the Big A today and marveled at the way Tom Durkin can make short fields in the dead of winter seem interesting. ;)

Steve 'StatMan'
01-05-2005, 04:46 PM
Nor does the Penn National announcer, and I never hear any talk about him not doing it

Good point Buddha, the Penn National annoucer drive me nuts on this!

Please! We want to know who ran 2nd and third, or who was involved in the photo, without waiting a too long. The exacta and trifecta pools have more money in them than the WPS pools. Have for many years now. Please!

Maybe fewer people have been following Penn.

sjk
01-05-2005, 04:56 PM
When Battaglia says inside or outside you can pretty much ignore it. He is stalling and the horse could be anywhere.

He is bad but the Pimlico guy is worse.

racingrev
01-05-2005, 05:00 PM
Philly Park's backup announcer, Pat Cummings, is terrible, too. Thankfully he doesn't work full-time.

I also have a problem with Vic Stauffer...I think he blabs too much and doesn't concentrate on the position of the horses. Grunder at Tampa also stinks.

Apart from being a nice guy with a voice to die for Pat Cummings is doing more than ok.. He only call's a meeting every now and then and believe me it's not easy to get a rhythm and flow happening when you call so little.

cj
01-05-2005, 05:06 PM
I don't find the Maryland guy, Dave Rodman, great, but he's servicable. I'd take him over Battaglia each and every day of the week.

timtam
01-05-2005, 05:14 PM
John Bogar is the race announcer at Penn National. His mentor was Fred Lipkin and they've been doing Racing Alive since the show first came on in the early 80's. Unfortunately John didn't get better with age. I never really thought he had the voice for a track announcer and i think saying then after every statement comes from his Pennsylavania Dutch background. Just a thought....

racingrev
01-05-2005, 05:18 PM
:D If we only called the first horse over the line in New Zealand the lynch mob would be half way up the grandstand.....

foregoforever
01-05-2005, 05:18 PM
He is bad but the Pimlico guy is worse.

Dave Rodman? He's one of the better ones, imo, although I hear him much more at Colonial than at Pimlico. When it comes to bad announcers ...

... FFFOOORRR TTTHHHEEE LLLEEEAAADDD ... Battaglia. I enjoy his handicapping show at Churchill, and he's not bad in the paddock at Keeneland, but when he goes north to Turfway he seems to leave a lot behind.

Dan Montilion
01-05-2005, 05:27 PM
Worst Announcer... All of them.

Dan (Mute Button) Montilion

Zman179
01-05-2005, 06:33 PM
I hate Stauffer's "If XXX is going to win, he's going to have to make up 15 lengths in the final 1/4 mile to do it!"

I've never heard the Philly backup, but I love Keith Jones. Does a very good job, day in and day out. I used to here him at the Garden nightly. I think he even did the harness there, but not positive about that one. Maybe melman will know for sure.

Keith Jones' first ever calls were made on the harness races at Garden State when it was owned by ITB. Later, ITB bought Keystone Racetrack (which was promptly renamed Phila Park) and then Keith made the switch to the Pha after Jack Lamar retired. Couldn't blame him one iota. After all, year-round work for a track announcer on a single circuit is like finding the HOLY GRAIL.

Curious, anyone ever heard of an announcer leaving a year-round circuit to call elsewhere? Seems to me like once an announcer gets a full-time gig like Phila Park or the Pig Penn, he sprouts roots like an oak tree.

breakage
01-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Worst: "and there they are guy"
Most Annoying: tie - Tony Kalo and Roger Houston
And I don't even play these tracks I just hear them from another tv....funny stuff RXB

nomadpat
01-06-2005, 12:12 AM
Valuist,

The LAD announcer you reference is hilarious on his imitations. The best one I heard from him was when he was announcing a race at ALB, he did a Marv Albert impression-fricking brilliant, sounded exactly like Marv Albert calling a race :)

BillW
01-06-2005, 12:42 AM
It's ironic that Frank does such a good Rodney Dangerfield as this is about the 4th time I've answered the "I don't remember his name, but ..."question. :D

His name is Frank Mirahmadi.

Bill

ranchwest
01-06-2005, 01:44 AM
Drives me nuts with that chronic "Gaaaaaininnnng grrrroounnnnd" and "They're riiiiiight togetherrrrrrrrr." Sounds like an old dopey-sounding cartoon character that I can't quite put my finger on.

Exactly! That's why Battaglia is in last. There may be some who are tied with him, but there are none anywhere any worse. I avoid TP like the plague simply because I don't want to hear Battaglia.

ranchwest
01-06-2005, 01:52 AM
My favorite bad announcer was Tim Conway. I heard him call a race at LaD one time.

"And, most of the horses are out of the gate, now they're all out of the gate, one horse has the lead and another trails the field."

Only Tim Conway could pull it off. He had even the crustiest racetrack veterans bent over laughing.

RXB
01-06-2005, 03:07 AM
Conway's calls were hilarious. "Uh, can somebody lend me six dollars?"

My favourite Carol Burnett Show memories are of Harvey Korman, on the verge of busting out laughing during a sketch because of Conway's ad libs and antics, silently begging Tim to "stop it, stop it."

racingrev
01-06-2005, 04:03 AM
Does anyone have an audio of Tim Conway calling..

What a hoot, almost like Billy Crtstal subbing for Tom Durkin on Breeders Cup Day... That is a thought ... LOL.. :D :eek:

Hosshead
01-06-2005, 06:05 AM
Ever seen one of those "practice (mechanical) horses" that jockeys use to practice on? Sometimes they have one in the jocks room. As you push on the neck,- the head and neck rock back and forth, like a real horse.

Chris McCarron had one in his house. There is a home video of Tim Conway visiting Chris and riding this "horse". He got it going real good, but forgot to place his head to the side of the horses neck. The neck came up hard and broke Tim's nose on the spot. All caught on tape. A real Kodak moment !!

toetoe
01-06-2005, 10:13 AM
Dick Riley used to do the No. Cal. fairs. He would fumble for the names, call the field twice, and by then the race would be almost over so .. "In deepdeep stretch, it's Wild Gold, Al's Renee, and Blackjack Road up in there for third." Every race somebody was up in there. Your guess who, was as good as Dick's. Poor guy also did the morning line. As Bill Walton would say, "H-O-O-ORRIBLE!"
I've already posted about Craig Ingram (hakuna matata, etc,).

Doc
01-06-2005, 01:26 PM
Another announcer some of you may remember is Bob Weems, who used to call at Monmouth and Atlantic City. Weems was color-blind and so had to identify the horses by number only. In his prime Weems was the best - straightforward, no nonsense and accurate - but towards the end he got confused and made lots of mistakes. He was very bitter when he finally retired - I remember him grumbling about the free airfare and trip that the track gave him as a going-away present. Seems he didn't want to go where they were sending him - can't remember exactly where - and he was bitching about the airline they chose. Poor bastard died not too long after that.

andicap
01-06-2005, 01:38 PM
IMHO, Dave Johnson was one of the worst doing those calls on ABC for the Triple Crown. He bent over backwards to scream out his signature phrase, "AND DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME!!!!!" even if it interfered with the flow of the race. Thank God Durkin does most of those races now.

In my youth I liked Jack E. Lee at Roosevelt Raceway.
"And Adios Lobell Hanover can see 'em all!"

sq764
01-06-2005, 01:54 PM
I was just reading James Quinn's book (On Track/Off track) and he mentioned 3 announcers - Denman (who he loved), Dave Johnson and Battaglia.

He seemed to echo the sentiment on here.. He said Dave Johnson sounded like he knew nothing about the sport and simply was a niche guy.. He said some of Battaglia's calls showed that he had no clue what was going on.

I guess this proves they have been bad for many many years..

Light
01-06-2005, 02:06 PM
Hey Toe

Was Craig Ingram the guy who allways said"the others better get busy"?

Now I've go to listen to MB cause he seems really popular in this category. But Definetly the worst I've ever heard is the Tampa annoucer. In a 12 horse field his first call is allways so and so on the lead when he's really last,annouces the 2nd place horse only 50% correctly then skips the entire field and calls the last place horse who he just called first!(can this guy hear himself?)This is his standard call out of the gate:skipping most of the field in his first call and jumping to the last placed horse.And he can't get that right.

During one race I bet,my horse won and he never called it the entire race.I began to wonder if it broke down somewhere along the backstretch.It was only after they crossed the wire that he noticed and gave him a "oh, and he was right there too".Gee,thanks for letting me know.

:eek:

andicap
01-06-2005, 10:05 PM
Ever seen one of those "practice (mechanical) horses" that jockeys use to practice on? Sometimes they have one in the jocks room. As you push on the neck,- the head and neck rock back and forth, like a real horse.

Chris McCarron had one in his house. There is a home video of Tim Conway visiting Chris and riding this "horse". He got it going real good, but forgot to place his head to the side of the horses neck. The neck came up hard and broke Tim's nose on the spot. All caught on tape. A real Kodak moment !!

Anyone remember the Emmy Awards from about 20 years or so back when Harvey Korman won some award and Conway comes up to the stage with them, holding onto to his tux while kneeling beside him like a little boy.
Conway is the voice of "Barnacle Boy" along with Ernest Borgnine's "Mermaid Man" on "Spongebob," the second-funniest show on TV.

(Isn't that great casting putting McHale and Engisn Parker together? And why did McHale's writers name the captain after a run-down city in upstate NY?)

toetoe
01-06-2005, 11:16 PM
After McHale's Navy and Rango, Timmy went downhill. As to Light's query, C. Ingram almost always had two pace battlers "quarterhorsin'", often predicted as they hit the stretch,"these two are gonna git it on" and just about every race said,"hoofhearted in front ... hakuna matata. It means ... no worries. And yes, the others ... better get busy; or, the others ............betterhurry. Actually, the text is not bad, forgetting for the moment that he said these things EVERY RACE! But he thought he was the black Marv Albert. He had that controlled roar that seemed to say, "I'm such a LOOZAH."
Somebody mentioned Tony Calo, and I won't dwell on his 4 indispensable tag lines (killer crossover,these two together as one,WHO WANTS IT MORE {@ the top of his frigging lungs}, and FRONT & CENTER), sometimes All worked into one race; no I come not to bury calo, but to further fink on him. He used to pronounce the name "Kabuki Theater" so that it rhymed with weirder, and with a soft 'th' diphthong, almost as "their-dur." What's up with that, Tony? Couldn't you foresee that I would spend hours on the Internet correcting you? Well, one of us is a loser, and it's not YOU! ... imean me.

trying2win
01-07-2005, 07:22 PM
My choice for worst thoroughbred announcer...Mike Battaglia at Turfway Park. He must be reading the horses' names while looking at a program, during the running of a race. Seems there are too many lulls during the call of a race. I was at our local track lately, and listened to MB's call of a race at Turfway. Near the end of one race, a horse was drawing away by 5 or 6 lengths, and if I remember correctly, MB shouted out..."and so-and-so (whatever the horse's name was) is G-A-A-A-I-N-G...G-R-O-U-N-N-N-D". That sounded strange!

As for my choice for worst harness announcer...Jonathan Huntington of Northlands Park. His announcing of a race, in my opinion is really dull! One of his favorite cliches at the start of his race, is "And they're off to a G-R-R-R-E-A-T START".

To RXB...Actually, you may find this odd, but I get a kick out of Roger Huston's announcing. I guess after all that hollering he's been doing at the Meadows for years, that is why he's seems to have a permanent hoarseness to his voice". Again to RXB...Try listening to Rick Uppal's showboat announcing at Fraser Downs, especially when there is a tight finish..."At the wire............ C-L-O-O-O-S-E". I get a kick out of RU's announcing. At one time I used to find it annoying. Now I find it entertaining.

T2W

RXB
01-07-2005, 07:45 PM
Harness racing, for me, is like a bad car accident; I find it gruesome, yet I still have to look for a split-second. And when I do, I can't help but notice that Rick Uppal is one of those guys who is actually a very skilled race caller but for some reason feels like he has go over the top with his voice.

Roger Houston-- well, T2W, all I can do is admit to the fact that I like some things that drive other people crazy. And on that note, it's time to throw some CD's into the player. Primal Scream, anybody? How about The Velvet Underground? The Jesus and Mary Chain?

Ragingmike
02-18-2005, 11:22 AM
"The Bullet" Bob Meyer at Yonkers was the best -

fouroneone
02-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Nor does the Penn National announcer, and I never hear any talk about him not doing it


Very true, a horse could win by 30 lengths, and he shuts his mic off as soon as the first horse crosses the line, even if it takes 25 seconds for the rest of the horses to finish.

Figman
02-18-2005, 01:25 PM
Ragingmike
Registered User


Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3 "The Bullet" Bob Meyer at Yonkers was the best -


Did "The Bullet" die?
I thought he went to a more successful NYS harness track, Saratoga?

TrackManSam
02-18-2005, 07:09 PM
Worst Announcer (thoroughbred) Mike Battaglia (and i meet people that love the guy, can't figure out why)

Best Announcer (thoroughbred) Trevor Denman (consistent, descriptive, exciting)

Worst Announcer (harness) Old man from Dover and the old man from Lebanon (Dover guy sounds disinterested, Lebanon guy just can't do it anymore)

Best Announcer (harness) Guy from Hazel Park (sounds young, but is one of the best up and comers in horse racing period in an awful long time)

Zman179
02-18-2005, 08:26 PM
Only "The Bullet"s career died. He's up at Saratoga Harness, but he's not what he used to be. He doesn't pick up horses as sharply as he used to. And to think that Saratoga Harness gave up Scott Ehrlich (now at Maywood/Balmoral) for him! I'd say that would be the harness racing equivalent of the Babe Ruth trade.

I do like Jack Gallagher's (Dover/Harrington) style of calls. He doesn't make mistakes and he gets into the calls in the finish when the horses are battling each other. I strongly disagree with Track Man Sam with this one. He's right about Lebanon, but their assistant is 10X worse. Keep the old guy.

Steve 'StatMan'
02-18-2005, 09:57 PM
Only "The Bullet"s career died. He's up at Saratoga Harness, but he's not what he used to be. He doesn't pick up horses as sharply as he used to. And to think that Saratoga Harness gave up Scott Ehrlich (now at Maywood/Balmoral) for him! I'd say that would be the harness racing equivalent of the Babe Ruth trade.

I don't follow harness, but I "sort of wish" you could tell that to the people in the Harness Forum of Barn To Wire, our Chicago based website that began as with the TB's (my other online forum home). Many in the harness forum rag nastilly all the time about him, and about nearly everything. I don't know that the negativity is deserved - since half of those folks on that side just plain just love bitch, dis and aggavate everyone and everything in Chicago Harness, and sometimes TB. That's why I say "sort of wish", I really don't wish the expected ugly response from some of them on you - so wear your helmet and goggles if you do. www.barntowire.com - don't even mention my name on that side - never know what some of the natives will do next. :( I actually hesitate to even tempt people over there to read that side by providing the link. :( :( Just nice to read another opinion of Ehrlichs calls from someone outside of that forum. One day maybe I'll get to watch the Maywood/Balmoral races and hear his calls - those tracks are not the net, so I don't get to watch nor hear their signal much to sample it.

toetoe
02-19-2005, 12:26 AM
Y'know, I was on that wonderful KD site, watching old Derbies, and MBatt was doing it for a few years. I kept waiting for "GAIN-ing GROUND, ... and it never came! It was almost faultless. Dang!

Observer
02-19-2005, 12:30 AM
You need to watch 1981 - Pleasant Colony - if possible.

In the final 1/16th or so .. it goes something like this:

"Pleasant Colony draaaws off, Woodchooper GAAAINING GROUND!!!" (then they cross the wire).

toetoe
02-19-2005, 02:57 AM
It just occurred to me. Maybe that '81 Derby was the genesis of "GAINing GROUND." Woodchopper was a borderline no-hoper who burst into contention down the stretch. He was, ... well, gaining ground.

Hate to continue the off-topic stuff, but another GREAT announcer was Joe Alto @ NCal fairs and Cal Expo Harness. Can't explain it, but the same old chestnuts he rattled off always sounded good.

I'm gunna have dreams of Battaglia. Maybe I can buy rights to his voice and put it into cell phones and alarm clocks (nauseated look, uncontrollable shivering).

cj
02-19-2005, 05:20 AM
After watching OP since the meet started, I have to say this Wallace guy is really, really bad. A good thing is I find myself becoming a better race watcher knowing listening to his guesses is fruitless.

zuki
02-19-2005, 07:12 AM
I have little experience with American racecallers. I haven't heard Denman. If anyone knows a website that features him calling some races, I'd appreciate it. As for Durkin, I can't stand the guy. It sounds like he takes a sip of coffee and a bite of doughnut in between calling each horse. Sounds just like whomever calls the professional wrestling (Oh My!) I also don't understand the need to remark on the time splits or at least to put so much emphasis on them. I'd rather hear the action. And I definitely don't get why the caller only calls the first 3 across the line (maybe 4) and then disregards the other finishers. Even if my horse is out of a place, I want to hear where it finished.

Obviously Aussie callers and American callers (the ones I've heard anyway) are poles apart. And it must come down to what you are brought up with and what you're used to.
Speaking for the major tracks here, I can't recall too many bad callers. If they're no good they don't get the gig. But I'm talking major tracks here. There might be a few shockers out in the bush.
As far as racecallers go, John Tapp is the best I've ever heard. Great enunciation, never hurried (even in large fields), seldom wrong in a tight finish, and extremely entertaining. He did visit the States at one time and made some calls. Apparently he impressed greatly and was offered a job. He declined, because I think he was retiring.

arkansasman
02-19-2005, 08:35 AM
Terry Wallace use to be fairly good, but he is terrible now. He misses horses, sometimes forgets horses and sometimes calls the wrong horse.

Valuist
02-19-2005, 10:27 AM
Agree 100% on the Walrus. At one time, he was one of the best. Now he makes WAY to many mistakes. And screams a bit too much. Its one thing if you're Durkin and screaming about a BC Classic stretch run; its another if its a field of Arky bred Maiden claimers staggering to the "short stretch mile run".

I guess in the battle for worst, Battaglia would say "GAINING GROUND up from the OUTSIDE is Terry Wallace.....they're NEARING THE WIRE...

PS to Tom Durkin if for some reason you read this board: Your good but NEVER, EVER say "oh my" in the middle of a race call. It has to be the wussiest, most pathetic phrase used in a race call.

Zman179
02-19-2005, 10:45 AM
I don't follow harness, but I "sort of wish" you could tell that to the people in the Harness Forum of Barn To Wire, our Chicago based website that began as with the TB's (my other online forum home). Many in the harness forum rag nastilly all the time about him, and about nearly everything. I don't know that the negativity is deserved - since half of those folks on that side just plain just love bitch, dis and aggavate everyone and everything in Chicago Harness, and sometimes TB. That's why I say "sort of wish", I really don't wish the expected ugly response from some of them on you - so wear your helmet and goggles if you do. www.barntowire.com - don't even mention my name on that side - never know what some of the natives will do next. :( I actually hesitate to even tempt people over there to read that side by providing the link. :( :( Just nice to read another opinion of Ehrlichs calls from someone outside of that forum. One day maybe I'll get to watch the Maywood/Balmoral races and hear his calls - those tracks are not the net, so I don't get to watch nor hear their signal much to sample it.

You can watch the Balmoral/Maywood races on Xpressbet.com or watch the replays at http://www.racereplays.com/balmoral_maywood/ (it has a free signup).

After reading the barntowire.com board, I've decided to stay away from there. It's quite obvious that this "eyeinthesky" guy is an aspiring announcer that was rebuffed. Seems to me that's how it is considering that an announcer acts as an eye in the sky for the fans (thus maybe this guy's handle?) His venom just seems too personal.

After all, think about this: even "Gone With the Wind" got some bad reviews.

Valuist
02-19-2005, 10:55 AM
The problem with Barntowire.com is that one guy, with multiple aliases, has ruined the forum. Its all pro-harness, anti-T-breds from a bitter guy who hates thoroughreds, hates Chicago, and hates pretty much everything in life.

TrackManSam
02-19-2005, 11:54 AM
I certainly agree with you guys on Barn to wire. Poor Scott Ehrlich has to be cringing with the garbage that is posted. Hey, if you don't like his announcing, just say I don't like his announcing. Don't go on to berade the poor guy.

Thats one of the reasons I like this site. There are disagreements, but they are friendly, and it seems all points are discussed without the venom that seems to override other boards. You make your point, and you move on. Thats the way it should be.

I never liked Terry Wallace, but I am anxious to here the new guy at Calder. I enjoyed his calls at Thistledown, and this is a pretty good opportunity to get another main voice out of the deal. A fresh voice.

Track Man Sam
www.ventyourfrustration.com (http://www.ventyourfrustration.com)

Doc
02-19-2005, 12:11 PM
Hey, any of you harness guys remember Jack E. Lee at Freehold? I think he was either canned or resigned in disgrace after some sort of embarrassing incident...can't recall the details. Anyway, he was just Gawd-awful with the way he called races...always used nicknames and had a monotone delivery. Long live Larry Lederman, King of Comedy!


Doc:jump:

cj
02-19-2005, 12:18 PM
I actually liked Jack E. Lee as Freehold was my home base for many years, even though I still played mostly T-breds while my wife was at the mall. Probably because I knew all the nicknames at the time, but he could be entertaining...I loved and so and so "can see em all!", especially when it was the favorite with Herve Filion driving, which happened often, because you didn't win from last at Fhd, EVER!

Zman179
02-19-2005, 12:50 PM
Hey, any of you harness guys remember Jack E. Lee at Freehold? I think he was either canned or resigned in disgrace after some sort of embarrassing incident...can't recall the details. Anyway, he was just Gawd-awful with the way he called races...always used nicknames and had a monotone delivery. Long live Larry Lederman, King of Comedy!
Doc:jump:

He lost his Freehold job after writing menacing letters to another horseman at Freehold. He pleaded guilty to the charges and got probation, but lost his job as a result.

Jack E. Lee was on the top of his game when he called at Roosevelt. His skills at Freehold were only a fraction of what he had originally displayed at RR.

Some of my favorite original RR sayings of his:
"_________ is seventh and ___________ can see them all"
"_________ has the best view"
"And they reach the half in one one and one (1:01.1)"
"They're off and pacing and off stride goes 'USS Enterprise'. The USS Enterprise...is sinking"
"Bobboooooooooooo forrrrrrr the leeeeead"
"This field issss on gait"

Jack E. Lee was one of the best announcers to ever call the harness races.

Doc
02-19-2005, 01:04 PM
Maybe I started paying attention to Lee when he was past his prime...it was the same way with Bob Weems at Monmouth Park. Weems was just a tremendous racecaller in the '70's...his call of Ruffian winning the Sorority was terrific. But towards the end he started making a lot of mistakes, and probably should have left long before he did.

syyamo
02-19-2005, 02:58 PM
Was Jack E. Lee the announcer who had the call "He's got the field by 4 and is looking for more."

I seem to remember this at Yonkers but it was some time ago.

One other sort of announcer item: someon earlier in the post mentioned Richard Grunder. I'm not going to take a position but I thought I noticed TAM using the saddle cloth colors as the helmet colors. I do not remember seeing this anywhere else but I've noticed less mis-identification of the runners lately. I know it flies in the face of tradition but it has certainly helped me find a horse when the field is bunched.

racingrev
02-19-2005, 03:47 PM
I have little experience with American racecallers. I haven't heard Denman. If anyone knows a website that features him calling some races, I'd appreciate it. As for Durkin, I can't stand the guy. It sounds like he takes a sip of coffee and a bite of doughnut in between calling each horse. Sounds just like whomever calls the professional wrestling (Oh My!) I also don't understand the need to remark on the time splits or at least to put so much emphasis on them. I'd rather hear the action. And I definitely don't get why the caller only calls the first 3 across the line (maybe 4) and then disregards the other finishers. Even if my horse is out of a place, I want to hear where it finished.

Obviously Aussie callers and American callers (the ones I've heard anyway) are poles apart. And it must come down to what you are brought up with and what you're used to.
Speaking for the major tracks here, I can't recall too many bad callers. If they're no good they don't get the gig. But I'm talking major tracks here. There might be a few shockers out in the bush.
As far as racecallers go, John Tapp is the best I've ever heard. Great enunciation, never hurried (even in large fields), seldom wrong in a tight finish, and extremely entertaining. He did visit the States at one time and made some calls. Apparently he impressed greatly and was offered a job. He declined, because I think he was retiring.
:) Hey Zuki welcome on board... :D

Tappy made some calls in California. It was just before the start of Sky, so obviously he took up that challenge to call home a host of champions into our houses.. I loved his calls of Super Impose winning his Epsoms and Doncasters..

Tappy was the man that introduced Mike Wrona to US racing...

Tom
02-19-2005, 05:17 PM
After watching OP since the meet started, I have to say this Wallace guy is really, really bad. A good thing is I find myself becoming a better race watcher knowing listening to his guesses is fruitless.


Oakloawn guy....pa-theic!
Just heard another screaming , "...picking them up and laying them down on the outside..." call for a horse running third by at least 12 inside the final sixteenth!. :bang:

Doc
02-19-2005, 07:16 PM
Thoroughbred Times just did a big feature on Terry Wallace, the Oaklawn guy. He's a jack of all trades - handles the media, too. Maybe he's got too much on his plate.:faint:

46zilzal
02-19-2005, 09:33 PM
Thoroughbred Times just did a big feature on Terry Wallace, the Oaklawn guy. He's a jack of all trades - handles the media, too. Maybe he's got too much on his plate.:faint:
fairly nice fellow in the many letters he has contributed to the Derby List over the years. Little excitable, but hen who isn't who calls races?

LARRY GEORGE
02-19-2005, 10:02 PM
I DON'T LIKE VIC STAUFFER WHEN HE IS AT HOLLYWOOD
ED BURGART OF LOS AL DID CALL HOLLYWOOD PARK FOR A WEEK OR TWO
I KIND OF LIKE ALLAN BURKHART WHEN HE FILLS IN FOR TREVOR AT S.A.

zuki
02-20-2005, 06:05 AM
Hi yourself Racingrev. Good to see you again. Thanks for the calls you sent me. You're a natural, my friend. Have you ever had a stint overseas (apart from NZ) yourself? I could see you getting a gig at a major track for sure.

It's interesting to note the different styles employed by callers from different nations. Huge contrast for me between Aussie callers and American callers (the one's I"ve heard at least.) The English are different again.
I suppose it comes down to what you're used to but every time I hear an American racecaller I find myself saying "c'mon, get on with it." Talking to yourself is not a healthy thing........ but there seems to be too many gaps between calling the horses and not enough actual information to the listener.

One more thing. Why no FEMALE racecallers. Or have there been? I've never heard one but there seems to be no reason that I can think of why one of the fairer sex couldn't be every bit as good as their male counterparts.
There you go ladies. A challenge!

racingrev
02-20-2005, 06:44 AM
Hi yourself Racingrev. Good to see you again. Thanks for the calls you sent me. You're a natural, my friend. Have you ever had a stint overseas (apart from NZ) yourself? I could see you getting a gig at a major track for sure.

It's interesting to note the different styles employed by callers from different nations. Huge contrast for me between Aussie callers and American callers (the one's I"ve heard at least.) The English are different again.
I suppose it comes down to what you're used to but every time I hear an American racecaller I find myself saying "c'mon, get on with it." Talking to yourself is not a healthy thing........ but there seems to be too many gaps between calling the horses and not enough actual information to the listener.

One more thing. Why no FEMALE racecallers. Or have there been? I've never heard one but there seems to be no reason that I can think of why one of the fairer sex couldn't be every bit as good as their male counterparts.
There you go ladies. A challenge!

Hey Zuki...

I've called in New Zealand of course and Australia in Victoria and Tasmania but that's it at this stage..

Although the international
racing world nowdays has become smaller with horses, jockeys, trainers and even racecallers working all over the place..

Personally I like a lot of the American callers but no doubt in my opinion Trevor Denman is the best. Accurate, articulate, good humor and nails them in a tight finish. If you have a look at ESPN's website they quite often feaure races from Santa Anita.

From memory there was a female trials caller in country victoria a few years back. I never heard her, but was told she was quite good. Obviously the public couldn't handle it as she now works for a cluster of country tracks in Victoria.

Cheers...

Zman179
02-20-2005, 09:36 AM
It's interesting to note the different styles employed by callers from different nations. Huge contrast for me between Aussie callers and American callers (the one's I"ve heard at least.) The English are different again.
I suppose it comes down to what you're used to but every time I hear an American racecaller I find myself saying "c'mon, get on with it." Talking to yourself is not a healthy thing........ but there seems to be too many gaps between calling the horses and not enough actual information to the listener.

One more thing. Why no FEMALE racecallers. Or have there been? I've never heard one but there seems to be no reason that I can think of why one of the fairer sex couldn't be every bit as good as their male counterparts.
There you go ladies. A challenge!

That's because Americans do not usually receive racing information via radio. In Australasia, the race callers have to describe the action to a radio audience so the caller has to be more descriptive. In North America, the fans watch the races so we don't need a racecaller to be super descriptive when we can see the action for ourselves. I've heard quite a few American horseplayers say aloud as to why Australian racecallers never shut up. So there you go, it's just a clash of different racing cultures.

In regards to female race callers, I've only seen two of them since I began following the ponies in 1982. One female was the assistant racecaller at The Meadows outside of Pittsburgh in the 1980's. The other is the current race caller at Bluffs Run Greyhound Park in Iowa. If you want to hear her calls, click the link below:

http://www.bluffsdogs.com/video_results.asp

zuki
02-20-2005, 10:37 AM
Thanks for that ZMan. Actually we don't live in the dark ages down here. We watch the races too via that new fangled gadget, the t.v.;) But it obviously does date back to radio description. I guess our guys never got out of the habit of describing what they are seeing whether the audience can see it or not. I notice Denman calls a lot like our callers - in comparison with other U.S callers that I have heard. He's quite descriptive in his calls. Whether you could watch the race or not, you would know what was going on judging by the calls I have heard by him.
As I said, I guess it's what you're used to.
I find Durkin amusing but I guess he gets it done. He's quite happy to let the viewer do the work while he gets ready to deliver his punch line toward the finish. Not bad work if you can get it. But he'd last about 30 seconds down here before someone pulled the plug.
Do you think it would be true to say that perhaps you guys have smaller fields on average than Australia? I've watched quite a few Internet replays of American races and the fields seem much smaller as a rule. If this is so, it might explain the difference between the respective U.S and Aussie callers; in the fact that your callers would have more time to call the race compared to our guys with bigger fields. This could account for the different styles. English racing seems to have smaller fields as well. What do you think?

Zman179
02-20-2005, 11:21 AM
Thanks for that ZMan. Actually we don't live in the dark ages down here. We watch the races too via that new fangled gadget, the t.v.;) But it obviously does date back to radio description. I guess our guys never got out of the habit of describing what they are seeing whether the audience can see it or not. I notice Denman calls a lot like our callers - in comparison with other U.S callers that I have heard. He's quite descriptive in his calls. Whether you could watch the race or not, you would know what was going on judging by the calls I have heard by him.
As I said, I guess it's what you're used to.
I find Durkin amusing but I guess he gets it done. He's quite happy to let the viewer do the work while he gets ready to deliver his punch line toward the finish. Not bad work if you can get it. But he'd last about 30 seconds down here before someone pulled the plug.
Do you think it would be true to say that perhaps you guys have smaller fields on average than Australia? I've watched quite a few Internet replays of American races and the fields seem much smaller as a rule. If this is so, it might explain the difference between the respective U.S and Aussie callers; in the fact that your callers would have more time to call the race compared to our guys with bigger fields. This could account for the different styles. English racing seems to have smaller fields as well. What do you think?

Trevor Denman is unique in that he'll let you know via his descriptions if a horse is in the process of doing something that the regular viewer may not notice. He has a sixth sense like that and he's definitely one of the best callers on the continent.
Tom Durkin is excellent as well. I remember when he used to call the races at defunct Hialeah Park and we (in New York) could only get the race calls. He would literally paint a picture of the race in one's mind. There's no doubt IMO that Tom Durkin's best work came at The Meadowlands when he used to call the trotters. Durkin is the best announcer EVER to call a trotter race in North America.

In general, US fields (especially in California) are much smaller than those in Australia. Heck, look at Sunday's entries at Bay Meadows where fields are always super small:
http://www.nycotb.com/_uploads/docs/wbm0220.pdf

English callers I've found have different styles according to the type of race being run. With the flats, they utilize what I would consider to be a mélange of US and Australian styles. But for the jumpers, it's a methodical, descriptive style that is not only very informing but quite entertaining as well. I believe that the English jumper callers are much better than their Australian counterparts and that the US callers don't even come close to their standards.

racingrev
02-20-2005, 04:54 PM
Trevor Denman is unique in that he'll let you know via his descriptions if a horse is in the process of doing something that the regular viewer may not notice. He has a sixth sense like that and he's definitely one of the best callers on the continent.
Tom Durkin is excellent as well. I remember when he used to call the races at defunct Hialeah Park and we (in New York) could only get the race calls. He would literally paint a picture of the race in one's mind. There's no doubt IMO that Tom Durkin's best work came at The Meadowlands when he used to call the trotters. Durkin is the best announcer EVER to call a trotter race in North America.

In general, US fields (especially in California) are much smaller than those in Australia. Heck, look at Sunday's entries at Bay Meadows where fields are always super small:
http://www.nycotb.com/_uploads/docs/wbm0220.pdf

English callers I've found have different styles according to the type of race being run. With the flats, they utilize what I would consider to be a mélange of US and Australian styles. But for the jumpers, it's a methodical, descriptive style that is not only very informing but quite entertaining as well. I believe that the English jumper callers are much better than their Australian counterparts and that the US callers don't even come close to their standards.

Interesting point Z man....

What I like about the race descriptions of jumping events from the UK is the special comments man in the booth with the announcer.. Just adds a bit xtra and gives the announcer a breather over long distances..

Sir Peter O Sullevan was the doyen of Jumping announcers..What a legend.. :jump:

If you get a chance at English Grand National time tune into BBC's five live internet radio broadcast. The main announcer is second to none, a brilliant jumps caller.

Australia's best jumps caller John Russell retired about 18 months ago and New Zealand's top jumps announcer Keith Haub called his last Great Northern in 2004..

Doc
02-20-2005, 04:59 PM
Thumbs down on the female racecaller idea. Isn't it bad enough that we have to bear the likes of Joanne Jones, Jennifer Burke, that broad at Tampa Bay, and others doing the paddock commentary? Pu-leeese....no chicks at the mike. :ThmbDown:

BetHorses!
02-20-2005, 08:18 PM
He lost his Freehold job after writing menacing letters to another horseman at Freehold. He pleaded guilty to the charges and got probation, but lost his job as a result.

Jack E. Lee was on the top of his game when he called at Roosevelt. His skills at Freehold were only a fraction of what he had originally displayed at RR.

Some of my favorite original RR sayings of his:
"_________ is seventh and ___________ can see them all"
"_________ has the best view"
"And they reach the half in one one and one (1:01.1)"
"They're off and pacing and off stride goes 'USS Enterprise'. The USS Enterprise...is sinking"
"Bobboooooooooooo forrrrrrr the leeeeead"
"This field issss on gait"

Jack E. Lee was one of the best announcers to ever call the harness races.

Merritt Dokey's nickname was "Butch" but Jack Lee would sometimes say Merritt "okey" Dokey in the bike :D

He was great.

Zman179
02-20-2005, 09:25 PM
Racingrev:
Yes, I've heard (and even seen a few times) the Grand National. The GN, IMO, is the ultimate race. Never had a chance to hear O'Sullivan's calls though since I haven't been exposed to foreign racing very long (since 1999).

BetHorses:
I remember when there was this horse named E A O K that was running at RR. One night, the horse was in front approaching the wire when Lee said:
"As they come to the wire, it's E A O K, and that's OK with me."

A classic.

MooseDog
02-22-2005, 07:40 PM
Northern California has been a haven for bad announcers. After John Gibson (Harry Henson - sound alike) got busted and thrown in jail, we had the fine young (at the time) Larry Collmus at Golden Gate Fields. But Bay Meadows, too cheap to pay Collmus what GGF was paying him, and desiring to be different, hired DANNY ALAMEDA who's claim to infamy was his total butchering of the ill-fated "Final Fourteen" final race which was held at BM. Heck Golden Gate even hired Trevor Denman for a couple of seasons - that was a reat treat. But alas Trevor got bored with the quality of the racing and decided not to come back.

Dick Riley's already been mentioned. He may have been the worst ever. Those who travelled north to the Ferndale Fair may have had to endure the absolute worst race caller in history - Gunnar Froines. Only thing was Gunnar (nicest guy you'd ever meet) never took himself seriously. Riley couldn't understand why people didn't like his calls.

So pretty much by default we've inherited Tony Calo. Aye carumba!

John Tabb was great as the guest announcer at HollyPark, I believe it was 1989. I remember a classic, possibly in the Hollywood Turf Cup as Hawkster, who was trying the classic 1 1/2 miile distance for the first time led the field home...

"Hawkster stays like a mother in law!"

I've heard Michael Wrona use that line, but I'm sure he stole it from Tabb.

toetoe
02-22-2005, 10:28 PM
MooseDog,
If the Final 14 only lasted the one year, that had to be the same race that Ricky Frazier's horse won, only to be belatedly placed last because Ricky was several pounds light when he weighed out. Those are the days we forget; otherwise we'll end up hating the game. Ricky F. was very pissed. Wonder what the whole story is.

racingrev
02-22-2005, 11:14 PM
Northern California has been a haven for bad announcers. After John Gibson (Harry Henson - sound alike) got busted and thrown in jail, we had the fine young (at the time) Larry Collmus at Golden Gate Fields. But Bay Meadows, too cheap to pay Collmus what GGF was paying him, and desiring to be different, hired DANNY ALAMEDA who's claim to infamy was his total butchering of the ill-fated "Final Fourteen" final race which was held at BM. Heck Golden Gate even hired Trevor Denman for a couple of seasons - that was a reat treat. But alas Trevor got bored with the quality of the racing and decided not to come back.

Dick Riley's already been mentioned. He may have been the worst ever. Those who travelled north to the Ferndale Fair may have had to endure the absolute worst race caller in history - Gunnar Froines. Only thing was Gunnar (nicest guy you'd ever meet) never took himself seriously. Riley couldn't understand why people didn't like his calls.

So pretty much by default we've inherited Tony Calo. Aye carumba!

John Tabb was great as the guest announcer at HollyPark, I believe it was 1989. I remember a classic, possibly in the Hollywood Turf Cup as Hawkster, who was trying the classic 1 1/2 miile distance for the first time led the field home...

"Hawkster stays like a mother in law!"

I've heard Michael Wrona use that line, but I'm sure he stole it from Tabb.


And Tappy stole it from his mentor the late, great Ken Howard.... :D

zuki
02-23-2005, 10:59 AM
I'll bet you London to a brick on Racingrev that you are correct.:)

racingrev
02-23-2005, 04:37 PM
I'll bet you London to a brick on Racingrev that you are correct.:)

I have quite a few of Magic Eye's calls on tape.. The combination of color, class and accuracy was brilliant.

Australian racing surely needs another Howard/Collins or Bryant............ :ThmbUp:

TOOZ
02-23-2005, 05:03 PM
Lederman's - "It's not a battle, it's a warrrr" is one of the best ever.
About Weems being colorblind, most of the races he called was when there was no such thing as a colored saddlecloth. I still like the old days when they were all black. Can't imagaine how bad some of the hacks would be with the black only saddlecloths still around.

Doc
02-23-2005, 05:10 PM
Lederman also likes to put names of people in races that he's calling. I remember when I worked at the DRF (years ago) the editor at the time was visiting Atlantic City (where Larry was calling) and Larry shouted his name as "making a move on the outside is George so-and-so!" (last name withheld to protect his identity). Anyway, I looked at my program like an idiot to find out what number the horse named George was and then it dawned on me...Larry did it again. He cracks me up. :lol:

Tom
02-24-2005, 05:42 PM
Trevor Denman...his post wrap drivel has got to be the most annoying, worthless crap in horseracing. As soon as the horses hit the wire, I change the channel to TVG just to avoid to listening his wrap up comments. God, that guy has the most annoying voice I have ever heard. Even more annoying than Tom Durkin.

toetoe
02-25-2005, 12:39 AM
Refreshing to hear someone step out of the Trevor-for-sainthood line.

racingrev
02-25-2005, 02:33 AM
Refreshing to hear someone step out of the Trevor-for-sainthood line.

Just listened to a re cap of all your big races over the past few weeks.. Granted Durkin wasn't calling but Denman is a living legend :ThmbUp: :)

Tom
02-25-2005, 04:40 PM
Calling the races he is ok, but it his rather dull, monotone drivel after the race the HTR insists on running that drive me up the wall. I have had a nightmare of sitting in the middle seat betwen Trevor and Durkin on a cross-country flight, listen to them talk in thier "track voices."
:eek:

racingrev
02-26-2005, 03:12 AM
Calling the races he is ok, but it his rather dull, monotone drivel after the race the HTR insists on running that drive me up the wall. I have had a nightmare of sitting in the middle seat betwen Trevor and Durkin on a cross-country flight, listen to them talk in thier "track voices."
:eek:

:D I could think of 100 lines for that..But I have to pay you on it Tom....

Maybe we should invite you to a Track Announcers Convention.... :bang:

zerosky
02-26-2005, 01:20 PM
Battaglia is pretty damn bad..............


Never Forget......................


Somebody is "Gaining Ground" in every race

I use him to scare the kids.....
Get to bed or Mike Battaglia will get you

Another one of his I hate is "FOR THE LEAD"
Also, maybe its the track feed, but the sound level goes through
the roof when he's on.

Good sport though!

Tom
02-26-2005, 06:06 PM
Durkin: (Screaming) We are barreling down the runway, moving like a tremondous machine, the falps are out, we are...are...going UPPPPPP!

Trevor: (Deadpan) And we're up.

Durkin: YESSSSSS!

Me: Drink, please!

:eek:

toetoe
02-26-2005, 06:39 PM
Tom,
Trevor started the trouble when he said:
"Tommy D., we would have to sprout WHEENGS!"

Zman179
02-26-2005, 07:43 PM
I would've figured that Trevor would have said on the plane "And awwwwwwwwway we go"

Tom
02-26-2005, 08:54 PM
"And awwwwwwwwway we go"

Actually, that is what I said when I got my first drink! :lol:

speedking
02-26-2005, 09:42 PM
What a thread! More laughs here than the last 12 seasons of SNL, together. Okay, maybe 18.

speedking

Zman179
02-26-2005, 09:53 PM
Before you know it, we'll hear:

"And they're off!!! BRILLIANT!"

MooseDog
02-27-2005, 03:12 AM
toetoe -

Yes, that was indeed the only running of the Final 14 and Ricky Frazier did weigh out too light. Lawsuits and suspensions followed this mess. Track management made Alameda re-call the race on after the fact so as not to further embarass the track when the race was shown on the news and on ESPN.

This was a really bad period in Northern California (the Ron Hansen era) lots of strange stuff going on. Ricky being (I believe) from Louisiana where the motto is "it isn't cheating if you get away with it" has been known to hold back a horse or two to cash a bet.

JACK LAMAR
Suprised no one has brought up Jack Lamar, late of Philly Park pre-1990s. Great voice, but all his calls went like this:

"It's Secretariat first, Seattle Slew second, Citation third, etc. etc. Didn't matter if it was the lowest maiden claimer or a stakes it was always the same call.

Every once in a while he'd come up with a couple of gems. One of which I don't remember exactly went like this"

"...and under partially sunny skies and vigorous left handed urging, it's (insert horse name) drawing away..."

My favorite call of his (which I happen to still have on tape) was the 1987 Pennsylvania Derby. Jack's doing his usual thing when eventual winner Broad Brush takes the lead with authority on the final turn but then decides to take a detour almost into the parking lot and ends up spotting the field 10 lengths or so....

Jack: "Broad Brush takes the lead from Glow, who is second, blah blah is third, etc...(deadpan) Broad Brush has bolted to the outside, Glow is now first, blah blah second, etc..."

Now Angel Cordero is riding Broad Brush and he's doing everything he can to get the horse back going in the right direction but the horse has lost all momentum. He finally gets him pointed the right way and once Broad Brush sees the rest of the field running away from him he takes off down the stretch. In one of the most amazing finishes I've ever seen, he looks hopelessly beaten but he is making up a lot of ground on the leader. With about a half furlong to go Cordero actually strikes Broad Brush on the face with the whip (deliberately) and he just rolls on by Glow like he was standing still.

Jack: "...and Broad Brush is coming on to take the lead. He's first, Glow is second..."

Overlay
02-27-2005, 03:43 AM
Reminds me of the criticism of Cordero for his tactics while riding Codex in the 1980 Preakness against Genuine Risk. (I remember the Form ran an editorial about it titled "Rodeo Cordero".)(Slightly off-topic, sorry.)

Zman179
02-27-2005, 08:19 AM
JACK LAMAR
Suprised no one has brought up Jack Lamar, late of Philly Park pre-1990s. Great voice, but all his calls went like this:

"It's Secretariat first, Seattle Slew second, Citation third, etc. etc. Didn't matter if it was the lowest maiden claimer or a stakes it was always the same call.

Every once in a while he'd come up with a couple of gems. One of which I don't remember exactly went like this"

"...and under partially sunny skies and vigorous left handed urging, it's (insert horse name) drawing away..."

My favorite call of his (which I happen to still have on tape) was the 1987 Pennsylvania Derby. Jack's doing his usual thing when eventual winner Broad Brush takes the lead with authority on the final turn but then decides to take a detour almost into the parking lot and ends up spotting the field 10 lengths or so....

Jack: "Broad Brush takes the lead from Glow, who is second, blah blah is third, etc...(deadpan) Broad Brush has bolted to the outside, Glow is now first, blah blah second, etc..."

Now Angel Cordero is riding Broad Brush and he's doing everything he can to get the horse back going in the right direction but the horse has lost all momentum. He finally gets him pointed the right way and once Broad Brush sees the rest of the field running away from him he takes off down the stretch. In one of the most amazing finishes I've ever seen, he looks hopelessly beaten but he is making up a lot of ground on the leader. With about a half furlong to go Cordero actually strikes Broad Brush on the face with the whip (deliberately) and he just rolls on by Glow like he was standing still.

Jack: "...and Broad Brush is coming on to take the lead. He's first, Glow is second..."

I'm surprised that you didn't bring up his pre-race banter.
"Beautiful sunny skies here in Bensalem, Pa......Last horse moves in......and they're all in line......steady now......eeeeeeeasy.....starter Mitchell looking them straight in the eye......wants to be sure before he springs the latch and sends them on their way......steady now......looks good from here......THERFF!!!"

I loved the way how the horses would be well inside the final furlong and he's calling horses that are 11th and 12th. One thing that you could say about Jack, your horse ALWAYS got a call (and more than once too). If he didn't call your horse, then that sucka was scratched.

cj
02-27-2005, 08:48 AM
Nice class Joe.

Doc
02-27-2005, 09:22 AM
I miss Jack Lamar, he had a good, no-nonsense call without all those flowery descriptions and race-long editorials that plague some of today's announcers (Vic Stauffer, for one). By the way, Lamar got a raw deal when Philly changed hands in the early 1990's...he was unceremoniously booted in favor of Keith Jones. I like Keith Jones immensely (especially when a longshot scoots home and he screams, "Hel-lo!") but poor Lamar never saw what hit him. I always wondered why they didn't bring Lamar back as their backup announcer considering the awful kid who now has the gig (Pat Cummings).

racingrev
02-27-2005, 09:49 AM
I miss Jack Lamar, he had a good, no-nonsense call without all those flowery descriptions and race-long editorials that plague some of today's announcers (Vic Stauffer, for one). By the way, Lamar got a raw deal when Philly changed hands in the early 1990's...he was unceremoniously booted in favor of Keith Jones. I like Keith Jones immensely (especially when a longshot scoots home and he screams, "Hel-lo!") but poor Lamar never saw what hit him. I always wondered why they didn't bring Lamar back as their backup announcer considering the awful kid who now has the gig (Pat Cummings).

That's a crap comment DOC...

Pat Cummings is NO AWFUL KID... But an extremely nice and talented young man.. When he gets the chance to call races on a more regular basis you will find he will develop into an A+ Grade caller...

I listen to lot's of announcers around the world and although I have a totally different style to Pat, I know racecalling talent when I hear it.... :cool:

You can mark this down... It might take some time, ( remember the Pantene add ), but Pat Cummings will become one of America's No1 callers...

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

Doc
02-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Judging by the groans I hear at Philly when he's calling races, I'm not alone in my opinion of him. I think he tries TOO hard to act like one of the big-name racecallers...and while he may be a nice person, I just can't stand the sound of his voice.

Zman179
02-27-2005, 01:39 PM
Doc,

I understand your gripe as I'm not too crazy about him at this time either. BUT, I do know that his talent is raw right now. He hasn't had the time to find his niche yet or his level of comfortability.

He does however show some accuracy within his calls. Believe me, I've called a race and some qualifiers before at The Meadowlands and I can vouch that it's not easy talking into a live microphone for a beginner...which is exactly what Pat is right now.

Hopefully it'll be a matter of time before Pat finds his correct style and polishes his work. But most likely he'll have to leave the nest of Philly Park and find an assignment at a lesser track in order to do it.

Bottom line: I'll take Pat ANY DAY over Richard Grunder.

PaceAdvantage
02-27-2005, 04:18 PM
Nice class Joe.


For anyone wondering, Joe Conte's post was deleted. I don't tolerate stuff like he posted, especially from NEW posters....

cj
02-27-2005, 04:22 PM
PA,

You might want to delete where I quoted it in the Handicapping Library forum, sorry, but I was pretty pissed.

rokitman
04-03-2005, 07:23 PM
Well, well, well, isn't that quite the fancy panties they've got announcing at Bay Meadows these days. Hadn't watched anything there in quite some time. He invokes an image in my mind of announcer in a circus clown outfit. With a hatch in the back.

toetoe
04-03-2005, 07:42 PM
Rok,

Maybe he can pop out after every race in a fresh outfit, spouting his trademark line, "How do ya like me now?" He'll never catch Paul Allen, though. PSalz might say they're not gunna get him this lifetime.

Lasix1
04-05-2005, 01:08 AM
fairly nice fellow in the many letters he has contributed to the Derby List over the years. Little excitable, but hen who isn't who calls races?
I'm glad a you and Valuist said a few good things about Terry Wallace. Those of us for whom Oaklawn is our home track really appreciate Terry in spite of the fact that he is neither at his peak anymore, nor was he probably ever one of the best race callers in the land. But in order to understand Terry, one has to understand Oaklawn. In an era of corporate takeovers and track mergers, the Magna machine, vaunted race tracks on the verge of being sold because of their real estate value, etc., Oaklawn is an anachronism. Terry not only announces the races, but he is the director of media relations, a key officer at Oaklawn, has numerous radio call-in shows and a schedule that would test a man half his age. He has never missed a race since he started at Oaklawn decades ago. He treats the call-ins of the most illiterate redneck with the same dignity and respect he accords the most articulate and reasoned handicapper. He is an accomplished linguist and has a degree in languages. As a result, he has lots of fun with horses with foreign names. A horse with the Italian name "Bocelli" is always called as "BO-Celllllllllll-i" with the accent correctly on the second syllable. A day at Oaklawn for the casual fan is a day of fun and excitement in no small part because of Terry Wallace.

His mistakes are typically ignored. Last week he misjudged the finish of a 1 1/16 mile race and called the winner at the finish line of the mile which is a different finish line at OP. No one at the track around me even mentioned it. (Fortunately the eventual winner was the same horse in the lead at the mile.) The family tradition and down home atmosphere that makes Oaklawn so charming is due in large measure to Terry Wallace, to say nothing of the record crowds and increasing purses.

Some of his calls are laughable, especially when you hear them on the radio. Last year in deep stretch at the Arkansas Derby he was screaming that Smarty Jones was "leading by 4 and PULLING away!" Next words were "Smarty Jones by 2" (hardly "pulling away") Unlike Treavor Denman, with Terry you never know by just listening to his calls who's going to win because he will call a horse in deep stretch as leading comfortably by 3-4 lengths and the next thing you know he seems to notice a horse "picking 'em up and laying them down". I've noticed he wears very thick glasses and I doubt that he sees very well.

But as for me and a lot of other Oaklawn fans, it will be a sad day when he hangs them up and as the field passes the Redbuds on the final turn, we'll miss his familiar "and here they come!"

toetoe
04-05-2005, 01:42 AM
Lasix,

TW also does the prerace analysis on the simulcast, right? Very good.

Speaking of TDen, it pains to say he may be Trevor Done, man. He blows races every day. He always went out on a limb, midrace, to advise who was "the danger." Now he still goes out on the limb, but he falls off way too often. He overestimates the chances of closers, so a horse 15 lengths back who starts moving up fast is "absolutely flaw-ying" even though he may not hit the board. If he just reported without the predictions, he'd still be the best. Maybe I'm too picky, but his style allows no margin for error.

cj
04-05-2005, 04:06 AM
I appreciate all you say about Terry Wallace, and with video, I can see it for myself most times, so his calls don't really matter. That said, he is HORRIBLE!

Binder
04-05-2005, 05:48 AM
I just don't like his style

He tends to over cheer for 75/1 shots in races were the out come
is in no doubt. Its exciting when its all the favorites and a big longshot gets in there late or is trying to hold on. But the few times when the big longshots wins easy, I think his style turns other people off too
One thing I notice at the track when he does this,
Is how quite it is. It seems like since the horse is 75/1 and like one lady in Peoria bet it because its the same name as her cat, Nobody is happy
Also I think he does a bad job with scratches and changes
He is very hard to follow in the excitement and track noise of the early races
seems like an ok guy
just not my favorite

Valuist
04-05-2005, 10:52 AM
The Tampa guy is really terrible. I don't normally play Tam but if I'm watching HRTV and a tampa race comes on, its like scratching nails on a chalkboard.

Lasix1
04-05-2005, 12:41 PM
Lasix,

TW also does the prerace analysis on the simulcast, right? Very good.

Speaking of TDen, it pains to say he may be Trevor Done, man. He blows races every day. He always went out on a limb, midrace, to advise who was "the danger." Now he still goes out on the limb, but he falls off way too often. He overestimates the chances of closers, so a horse 15 lengths back who starts moving up fast is "absolutely flaw-ying" even though he may not hit the board. If he just reported without the predictions, he'd still be the best. Maybe I'm too picky, but his style allows no margin for error.
Yes, Terry handicaps every race and has them up on the web early in the morning of race day. He's not a bad handicapper, either. He handicaps the races on his radio show each race days, gives the stretch calls of the races on the local station and announces the feature race live on the radio. Where else can you get this kind of media commitment to racing? This is really a civilized place.

Your comment about Trevor flies in the face of conventional wisdom but now that you mention it, I have no doubt you're right.

Does this mean that if you do a technical analysis of any announcer his work will be found to be flawed and we love or hate him for other reasons?

But I sure agree with C.J.'s and Valuist's sentiment about that screamer at Tampa Bay. He makes my head hurt and reminds me of the maniac at Southland Grayhound Park who they pipe into Oaklawn during simulcast season. He got on my nerves so badly that in the name of mental health, I started staying home and playing my BrisNet account during simulcast season.

toetoe
04-05-2005, 09:09 PM
I know it's not charitable, but this IS the bad-announcer thread. TDen has just lost the skill of prophecy, and he'll be the last to know, I guess. Of course, I flatter him, holding him to such a high standard. Majority are so bad, we pick on them for fun, but we don't mourn or expect better.

Still working on the cartoon character evoked by Mike Battaglia's "GAIN-ing GROUND!" Might it be Rocket J. Squirrel? Guess not, but I'm getting warmer. Who first mentioned this, anyway? Let's brainstorm until we nail it down.

rokitman
04-05-2005, 09:39 PM
Who first mentioned this, anyway? Let's brainstorm until we nail it down.

I was.

Try this.

http://www.nonstick.com/wsounds/beaky1.wav

Lasix1
04-05-2005, 10:45 PM
I know it's not charitable, but this IS the bad-announcer thread. TDen has just lost the skill of prophecy, and he'll be the last to know, I guess. Of course, I flatter him, holding him to such a high standard. Majority are so bad, we pick on them for fun, but we don't mourn or expect better.

Still working on the cartoon character evoked by Mike Battaglia's "GAIN-ing GROUND!" Might it be Rocket J. Squirrel? Guess not, but I'm getting warmer. Who first mentioned this, anyway? Let's brainstorm until we nail it down.
I'm not sure that the "Good Announcer/Bad Announcer" dicotomy gets at the subtleties of the issue. As in the case of Wallace, as I said, his other good qualities overcome his deficiencies as a race caller so that they are more obvious to the simulcast player than to the live fan. If you're at Oaklawn he is so ubiquitious that the call of the race is almost an afterthought. On the weekends the crowd is so rowdy you can't hear his call anyway. On the other hand, I've noticed that Trevor Denman plays well on the air, but as a color commentator for the networks on the big races, he's never said one memorable thing I can recall.

As for a description of Battaglia, I can't think of anything better than your characterization of him as a squirrel. He has that sing-song style of calling that may have been popular at the turn of the last century, but God it's annoying now--a real forest rodent persona. And to think that his family connections kept him at Churchill for God knows how many years until, apparently, enough people complained. No one has mentioned his replacement, Luke Kruytbosch---perhaps because no one can spell his name---but I think he's really good. But then following on the heels of Battaglia, a random-number generating robot would be an improvement.

Anymore ideas about how to describe him? Maybe we're "GAIN-ing GROUND" on the problem.

toetoe
04-05-2005, 11:29 PM
It's more like a cartoon character based on Lou Costello (Hey, Yabbott!"), you know, as Bugs Bunny is based on Milton Berle? Definitely a rodent, though.

Joe Alto was great. What happened to him? He trotted out the same sayings every race, but I never tired of them.

Collmus is great, too. He has this dogyap at the start -- "The Rhaff!" that I can take or leave, but I'm rooting for Durkin to make his vacation permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, I must say Collmus came up with, "Can anybody pass Grey Poupon?" as a horse by that name was drawing off down the stretch.

Oh, yeah. Alan Buchdahl (sp.?) is the guy I always confuse with LKruyt. I think Alan's the one that pronounces 'third' as 'theehrd' or something similar. Impossible to render in alphanumeric characters, maybe TAFKAP can help me out here.

GeTydOn
04-05-2005, 11:38 PM
Collmus in favor of Durkin??? You've got to be kidding!

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Tom
04-06-2005, 12:03 AM
I like the guy doing AWQU right now..is that Collmus?

I think the worst TA has to be Durkin or Trevor. fter a whole season of listneing to Trevore, I want to cut off my ears! Man, that guy has an annoying voice. Like scraping your fingernails on a chalkboard. Durkin reminds me of a second grader on a sugar high.

thonger10
04-06-2005, 01:20 AM
Remember John Bothe at the Meadowlands harness, about 7 years ago? He worked there for years upon years, and in the end he sued the track because he lost all his money and blamed the track that they made him call races, even though he was an addicted gambler! LOL! Loved that guy! He went to court and everything. What ever became of him? I heard he moved out to Arizona, and once again, dispite being a degenerate addicted gambler, he was calling races, AND BETTING ALL HIS MONEY, once again! I love this game!


Thonger10:D

Misteranthropic
04-06-2005, 01:28 AM
I, on the other hand, like TD.

As for horrible announcers, Tony Calo at Bay Meadows has no peers in that department.

Tony should take that affected, over-the-top, ultra-annoying voice out back and shoot it, burn it and haul it to the dump, and then go apply at McDonald's for a job he is surely more qualified to do than announce races within public earshot.

Bay Meadows is the only simulcast I cannot stomach, including the screamer at Tampa(not to mention the woman who adds absolutely nothing to the broadcast except the word broad) whom I despise.

Calo's voice compares unfavorably with the screeching sounds of wild racoons fighting over a possum carcass, or the screams of alley cats mating all night long.

When it comes to Calo, the deaf should be ecstatic at their condition.

TJC
04-06-2005, 05:15 AM
toetoe


I believe Joe Alto is calling the harness races at CalExpo

Binder
04-06-2005, 06:04 AM
I like the guy doing AWQU right now..is that Collmus?

Hi Tom
Yes its Larry
I hear him at Aqueduct. I hope this makes him better
if and when he goes back down to Monmouth this summer

cj
04-06-2005, 06:58 AM
He is still the announcer at Monmouth and will be there this summer.

toetoe
04-06-2005, 09:36 AM
Last time I checked, John McGary (?) was doing the Sacto. harness. He was doing the N. Cal. fairs, then harness. Alto? Maybe only Joe knows.

Right about Calo. He has much going for him, but insists on trying WAY too hard. Like Durkin, somebody needs a timeout.

rokitman
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
Was just watching Beulah. Those twins would be the best horse racing girls in all of recorded history....if they'd just shuddup :cool:

Observer
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
...if they'd just shuddup

Isn't that what all men want women to do???
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Zman179
04-06-2005, 08:26 PM
Alto? Maybe only Joe knows.

He's retired. Probably went back to Upstate New York, near Finger Lakes, where he came from.

Valuist
04-07-2005, 01:13 PM
Could somebody please tell Trevor that Mark Guidry's name is pronounced "Gid-ree" not "Gee-dree".

BABBAGENE
09-09-2005, 01:11 AM
Herve Filion_______The Colonel
Jack Moiseyev_____Jackie Mo
Mark Lancaster____The Columbus Clipper
Allain Robillard_____Allain in the lane Robilliard
Ron Pierce________Rockin Ronny Pierce
Bill Odonell________The Magic Man


When Herve would win a race Jack would say "Colonel , we salute you"

"Put the Whip away"

If Horse had a huge lead turning for home Jack would say" He's all Death and taxes"

"You need a telescope to see em"

After a horse won real easy Jack would comment about the driver "He was just a passenger "

When Jack Moiseyev won a race Jack would say" Jackie Mo , thats all you gotta know"

Doc
09-09-2005, 09:35 AM
Too bad Jack E. Lee got fired from his gig at Freehold...and gee, over something silly like harassing a trainer both verbally and through the mail. I remember the NY Daily News did a big story on poor Jack's troubles.


Doc

Princequillo
09-09-2005, 11:45 AM
I don't find the Maryland guy, Dave Rodman, great, but he's servicable. I'd take him over Battaglia each and every day of the week.

Dave Rodman's Preakness call this year was a classic. "Awwwwwwwsommmmmmme" as Alex crossed the finish line, and then the exact order of finish while out of breath. Durkin's call for the network was not his best.

cj's dad
09-09-2005, 12:33 PM
Hey Craig,

You've heard Dave Rodman caal races. I think he is one of the best, very business like and rarely makes a mistake. looks like he may be out of a job soon. maryland racing is dying faster than Housebuster in a 1 1/4 race.

cj's dad
09-09-2005, 12:40 PM
Battaglia is the most annoying for my taste. Talkes to him one year near the Preakness and he's a real j---ass too.

As far as good announcers, Dave Rodman in Maryland is very professional and rarely makes a mistake. Looks like he may be out of a job soon; racing dates being cut drastically. Prediction: Preakness Stakes @ Gulfstream within 3 years !!

falconridge
09-09-2005, 02:01 PM
Northern California has been a haven for bad announcers. After John Gibson (Harry Henson - sound alike) got busted and thrown in jail, we had the fine young (at the time) Larry Collmus at Golden Gate Fields. But Bay Meadows, too cheap to pay Collmus what GGF was paying him, and desiring to be different, hired DANNY ALAMEDA who's claim to infamy was his total butchering of the ill-fated "Final Fourteen" final race which was held at BM. Heck Golden Gate even hired Trevor Denman for a couple of seasons - that was a reat treat. But alas Trevor got bored with the quality of the racing and decided not to come back.

Dick Riley's already been mentioned. He may have been the worst ever. Those who travelled north to the Ferndale Fair may have had to endure the absolute worst race caller in history - Gunnar Froines. Only thing was Gunnar (nicest guy you'd ever meet) never took himself seriously. Riley couldn't understand why people didn't like his calls.

So pretty much by default we've inherited Tony Calo. Aye carumba!

John Tabb was great as the guest announcer at HollyPark, I believe it was 1989. I remember a classic, possibly in the Hollywood Turf Cup as Hawkster, who was trying the classic 1 1/2 miile distance for the first time led the field home...

"Hawkster stays like a mother in law!"

I've heard Michael Wrona use that line, but I'm sure he stole it from Tabb.
MooseDog certainly has an outstanding memory ("outstanding" because, of course, his recollections jibe with my own) of race callers who have occupied the crow's nests of California tracks over the past quarter-century. I remember well the long-departed John Gibson, who succeeded Todd Creed at the Northern California tracks. Creed had a good sense of humor, an appealing timbre and style, but lost too many horses--and way too often--to earn the regulars' benison (For years a story circulated among NoCal racegoers about the time a prankster substituted a program from a card run a week earlier for the one that listed horses in the race Creed was about to call. Creed, too lazy or hung over to notice the discrepancy, misidentified every entrant from flagfall to finish). Gibson (who, last I heard, had, along with his wife, been indicted on a pandering charge that involved an underage girl) had many of the shortcomings that undermined his predecessor's performance, but his voice was so eerily like that of the great Harry Henson that I was more inclined to forgive him his many lapses--that is, his race-calling lapses.

Danny Alameda had long been just another admission-paying schmoe when found he drew an audience--albeit more bemused and annoyed than admiring--with his ad libitum calls among the madding crowds of horseplayers who teemed about Bay Meadows in the late '70s and early '80s. That call of the inaugural Fabulous Fourteen finale remains one for the ages: from about the 5/16 pole to mid-stretch, Danny, completely at sea as to who was running where, was tongue-tied!

The late Gunnar Froines, whose principal occupation for most of the year was as Bay Meadows' rope holder (draw it aside when the horses enter the paddock, put it back, repeat when the mounted critters go out for the post parade, put it back, etc.), was another "character" (and, as MooseDog remarked, an awfully nice fellow) during the days Danny Alameda was just another roustabout. As far as I know, Gunnar's only announcing gig outside of Ferndale--where he worked for 42 summers--was calling the Bay Meadows training races for the Saturday-morning tour groups.

Aussie veteran John Tabb came to Hollypark to ease the way for his protege, Michael Wrona, who when he arrived in Southern California was but a beardless youth of 21. Hollywood had just recently tried out a couple of announcers, Bine Masters and Milo Perrins, who proved so woefully inept that they were hooted and booted out of the Inglewood track before the midpoint of its spring/summer meeting (I'll allow, Milo "The Voice" Perrins may have improved after his ouster from Hollypark; I couldn't say, since I haven't caught his act in years). From the start, Tabb was actually billed as Wrona's "mentor," and would call the majority of the races, only occasionally giving way to young Wrona--an arrangement that obviously worked out well.

Thanks, Moose, for bringing back memories of happy times--especially of Tabb's classic "mother-in-law" jape.

--falconridge

toetoe
09-09-2005, 02:37 PM
FRij,

FINAL Fourteen, if ya please.

Benison ... blessing?

falconridge
09-09-2005, 03:16 PM
FRij,

FINAL Fourteen, if ya please.

Benison ... blessing?
Thanks, toetoe; I please. I hadn't recalled the official billing; fact is, the Fourteen, being claimers, were far from fab--though that never curbed a promoter of his penchant for hyperbole.

Blessing would indeed work in benison's stead. Consider your gratuitously grandiloquent colleague duly chastened (if not reformed).

Remember the not-so-fabulous outcome of the first Fourteen? The apparent winner, at 8-1, not only had his number taken down (I'd bet him), but all his backers' wagers removed from the pools (and refunded) when the weigh-in revealed that the horse had carried less than its assigned impost. Seems the rider had removed one of the lead ingots from his saddle pad, and pitched it onto the track (where it was later found) during the warmup. Not long afterward it came to light that the Final Fourteen fiasco wasn't the first instance of said rider's (sorry, can't remember who) having resorted to such skullduggery. Anybody remember the varlet's name? [Merriam Webster: varlet, n., sense #2: a tricky or deceitful fellow] What I do recall is that he wasn't a NoCal--or even west coast--jockey.

toetoe
09-09-2005, 04:44 PM
Ricky Frazier, if you please. He put on a great act, seemingly incensed over the injustice of it all. Whoever jettisoned the window-sash weight could be a mere minion of the owner, the trainer, or a high-roller.

Minion: a servile follower, often short, skinny and pinheaded.

falconridge
09-09-2005, 06:30 PM
Ricky Frazier, if you please. He put on a great act, seemingly incensed over the injustice of it all. Whoever jettisoned the window-sash weight could be a mere minion of the owner, the trainer, or a high-roller.

Minion: a servile follower, often short, skinny and pinheaded.
Many thanks, toetoe. I bow to your positively eidetic powers of recall.

The rascal was Ricky ("R.F."--for Rat Fink) Frazier, eh? So embittered was I by his mount's being declared a non-starter, I'd expunged most of the details from my memory.

Your appreciative would-be minion--"would-be" because, though pinheaded and often servile (perforce, to the Trouble-and-Strife) I'm no longer skinny, and stand (when I can manage it) a strapping 187 cm,

falconridge

toetoe
09-10-2005, 12:06 AM
For the reference to my eidetism(?), I am edified. Your tale of the tape seems to beg for a wrestling match with Kreed, who gave his vital stats in a recent post. Short enough that the water is cold by the time it hits him in the shower and, of course, he has to be oriented correctly to even get wet.

p.s. Kreed will just whup me if offended, and no grudge will obtain. TT

falconridge
09-10-2005, 01:08 AM
I am edified. Your tale of the tape seems to beg for a wrestling match with Kreed ...
I'm afraid I must decline, with all due respect. I never was much of a scrapper.

For the benefit of eavesdroppers who haven't yet gone metric, and just so nobody orders me too short a coffin, I measure, from top to toetoe (and when not bowed by lumbago or sciatica), about six feet one and three-quarters inches--tall for a minion, but hardly Bunyanesque. That works out to better than 18 hands--a little shorter at the withers--or nearly the height of Gary Ross's version of War Admiral (who in reality stood barely 15 hands).

Speaking of linear measures, I know this question would fit better in the "What do you pay for a gallon of gas?" thread, but I'll ask it anyway: how many rods does your horseless carriage go on a hogshead of ethyl?

toetoe
09-10-2005, 01:42 AM
Deep post, hard to fathom.

Eidesis was what I was groping for. Stewards have ruled eidetism is lame.

falconridge
09-10-2005, 02:31 AM
Deep post, hard to fathom.

Eidesis was what I was groping for. Stewards have ruled eidetism is lame.
Nice work, toe (if my use of the friendly diminutive isn't out of line). Though my own memory might once have been sharp enough to be called "eidetic" (I learned that word a while ago), it's deteriorated to the point that I couldn't remember the Greek nominal root of that adjective. Eidesis. Might have taken me a few goes to find that one.

Really, I never mean to be deep. I do feel a responsibility to be at least engaging, preferably amusing--best of all, helpful--whenever I post. That's the least I can do for those who take the time and trouble required to slog through my prose (which often enough is off enough to call for mud caulks).

The bit about the coffin length apparently went wide of the mark. So far as I know, I'm still in adequate (physical) health, notwithstanding the sendentary lifestyle, cigarettes, and consumption of too-generous helpings of my wife's delectable Korean shortribs and oxtail soup. That's probably more than anyone here needs or cares to know about me--other than that I relish these exchanges and the opportunity to learn from, and laugh with, my fellow PA posters.

Thanks again, toe (and others) for going to the trouble just to read what I have to say (even when I haven't much to say!), and for thinking it worth your while to reply.

Best,

falconridge

mainardi
09-10-2005, 02:42 AM
I guess I just can't figure out how a guy that gets all of the best national gigs AND can pick-and-choose where and when he calls races for NYRA could be so major-league level bad. As I posted in the "Favorite Track Announcers" thread, he pulls a "Randy Moss" and just seems to coast through mid-week cards and the "weaker" races on the weekend cards.

Also, has anybody EVER heard any other decent race caller that WON'T call the close ones at the wire, seemingly going out of his way to avoid their names ("it's too close to call" is my favorite)? I mean, there isn't one of us that doesn't like to take a guess when we're watching on TV... and we're not getting paid to make the call. Go ahead, Tom... we won't get mad if you miss an occasional head-bob.

And guess what? He has trouble with his "lengths back" calls going around the far turn, too! Just last weekend, it was clear that the horse chasing the leader was losing ground and was at least a length back, and Tommy Boy says the horse is closing the gap and is only a neck back! Huh? Was he watching Finger Lakes on the monitor?

Okay, all of you Durkin apologists now have some fodder. I won't take it personally. After all, how can anyone defend the undefendable? Oh, I just love stirring up the pot. :D ;) :D

PaceAdvantage
09-10-2005, 03:22 PM
When Durkin states who the photo is between, he always states FIRST the horse he believes won.

PaceAdvantage
09-10-2005, 03:38 PM
Oh, I just love stirring up the pot. :D ;) :D

Speaking of stirring the pot, you've been a member here for 3 years (registered in 2002) and yet you're just coming alive now and posting left and right?

JimG
09-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Speaking of stirring the pot, you've been a member here for 3 years (registered in 2002) and yet you're just coming alive now and posting left and right?

Is he posting in off topics too?:eek:

mainardi
09-10-2005, 04:05 PM
PA,

Just want you to know two things:
1. I have not watched all of his calls, but of those that I have seen, Durkin swallows his tongue "at the wire", and then makes the call later. Of course, maybe it's okay for him to take his time to get it right every time, but he doesn't ever seem to go out on a limb to make an "instant" call. It's really not that big of a deal, but it just adds to my list of things that drive me nuts about him.
2. When I originally joined this forum, I did so because one of my customers thought that it would be insightful. At that time, I didn't find it very compelling, so I stayed away. Recently, I've taken the time to go through some of the threads and have offered up my opinions/comments/insights. I thought that was the point of the forum... to freely express our opinions (without vulgarity, of course). It shouldn't matter WHY I decided to get back in, but that I DID get back in. Everything else that I have to say will be taken private... as it should be.

Lasix1
09-10-2005, 11:42 PM
I guess I just can't figure out how a guy that gets all of the best national gigs AND can pick-and-choose where and when he calls races for NYRA could be so major-league level bad. As I posted in the "Favorite Track Announcers" thread, he pulls a "Randy Moss" and just seems to coast through mid-week cards and the "weaker" races on the weekend cards.

Also, has anybody EVER heard any other decent race caller that WON'T call the close ones at the wire, seemingly going out of his way to avoid their names ("it's too close to call" is my favorite)? I mean, there isn't one of us that doesn't like to take a guess when we're watching on TV...
Joe, Joe, Joe, I couldn't disagree with you more about Tom Durkin. Why in the world should he call lack-luster yawner races as if they were the Breeder's Cup Classic? When the chips are down and a really big race comes up, nobody is better than Durkin.

Consider his call of the 2004 Kentucky Derby in deep stretch: "Deadlocked at the eighth pole, Lion Heart is all heart; Smarty Jones is all out!" This is the kind of artistry with words that poets struggle with sitting behind their desks, much less in front of a live mike with millions listening. It sent chills down my spine and I listened to it over and over.

And as far as him honestly calling a race that's too close to call "too close to call", well, that's just silly.

Durkin is the announcer of choice for big races for a very good reason. Nobody calls them better......

Kitan
09-11-2005, 12:25 AM
And when I do, I can't help but notice that Rick Uppal is one of those guys who is actually a very skilled race caller but for some reason feels like he has go over the top with his voice.


Did you just say Rick Uppal?? I live around FrD and I don't mind him, but there are a lot better than him.

mainardi
09-11-2005, 02:34 AM
Does anyone else agree with Lasix1 that they'd rather have Durkin be "up" for the big races than be consistent? :confused:

Since my wagering profile excludes all Graded stakes races, I only watch them and don't focus as much on what's being said. My hard earned money rides on minor stakes, allowance races, maidens and claimers $20k and up. When I make a wager, I expect to get a good race call from a race caller from a top-notch circuit. As you can guess, I don't feel that I get that very often from Durkin. That's what it comes down to for me.

As for chills down my spine, I get many more of them from cashing big tickets. And for my money -- and that's what it is -- I think that a guy that probably pulls down at least high six figures ought to be able to "get it up" for a "lackluster" race!

Let me equate this to team sports and their Halls of Fame. I don't know of a sport that honors someone that was there for the big moments but is right around average the rest of the time. Guys like Paul O'Niell, Luis Gonzalez and Joe Carter aren't going into the HoF, but they all came up big enough in the World Series to be well known in their sport. Durkin is well known, but that doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. I keep riding him because a guy who gets all the best gigs shouldn't even be showing up in this thread.

Hosshead
09-11-2005, 04:05 AM
Durkin is the announcer of choice for big races for a very good reason. Nobody calls them better......I couldn't disagree more.

I'll never forget the first year I heard that Trevor Denman was doing the Triple Crown broadcasting. I tuned in and said hey, wait a minute, why in the hell is Trevor doing the interviews and Durkin doing the calls? Trevor can call circles around Durkin !
Durkin's infrequent good calls don't come close to his number of bad calls.
Another T.V. executive decision ? I don't know.
But it went right along with the director's decision to show too much head-on shots during the race, so you couldn't tell what position the horses were in.

Yeah, Durkin calling those races, instead of TD, fit right in with the other brilliant T.V. coverage decisions.
Maybe they had him do the calls because he can't do interviews either.

PaceAdvantage
09-11-2005, 04:46 AM
American TV execs, American TV, American racing, American announcer? Maybe it's that simple.

Plus, when it comes down to Durkin vs. Denman, both have their quirks and their bad habits that make people's skin crawl, and both can also cause your skin to break out in goosebumps at just the right moment.

In my book, they are both great announcers...they both screw up calls every now and then, and they both can get annoying at times with their "overcalls"

'Nuff said....now go pick some winners, and forget about who is calling the races for a minute!

Pace Cap'n
09-11-2005, 08:41 AM
[QUOTE=
'Nuff said....now go pick some winners, and forget about who is calling the races for a minute![/QUOTE]

Or, come to the simo facility I frequent, and watch the races all day long and not hear one single race call.

Tom
09-11-2005, 11:41 AM
Durkin and Dennman woiuld be GREAT announcers if I could just choose closed-captioned calls instead of audibles! :D

Art P
09-11-2005, 01:00 PM
a babbling fool ,and worse than him is that dope down the stretch they come..Dave Johnson

Lasix1
09-11-2005, 05:42 PM
Since my wagering profile excludes all Graded stakes races, I only watch them and don't focus as much on what's being said.
Then according to your own testimony, Joe, your original post is irrelevant, and you should leave the question of announcer competence to people for whom the call actually matters. :) I agree that Denman is terrific, but, as PA pointed out, he has some annoying qualities too--like starting every big race with poor grammar: "The field for the Pacific Classic sent on their way". (The field--singular--is sent on its way.

falconridge
09-11-2005, 06:41 PM
PA,
I have not watched all of his calls, but of those that I have seen, Durkin swallows his tongue "at the wire", and then makes the call later.
Unless I'm mistaken, Tom Durkin began his career as a race caller before what had long been an unwritten rule gave way to an unwritten amendment. Until at least thirty years ago--and perhaps as recently as the late 1980s--public address announcers never called the final placings of a race (at least, never over track loudspeakers; it was different for radio and television coverage). Announcers held to this practice regardless of how clear-cut the placings may have appeared. You'd never hear, as the leader(s) flashed under the wire, anything like "Jimmy D by a nose," or even "Centaur Boy by a half." Even if a runner had disposed of his competition at the eighth pole before drawing off to a ten-length score, the last you'd hear over the track's PA system would be something like "Shecky Greene in a laugher" (not "Shecky Greene is the winner, with Straight Man second ... ") or "Maidenform way out front."

Nor, until fairly recently, would race callers assume the roles of trackmen, stewards (ex officio or otherwise), or chart makers. They'd limit themselves to reciting the approximate margins that runners held over their opponents at various stages of a race, and refrain from inferring--or, at least, commenting on--the reasons any given horse may have lost or gained position.

This began to change about the time Trevor Denman arrived on the scene. Denman always called the final placings, even in races with tight finishes; and always "editorialized"--sometimes in a manner that stewards (and fans) found glib, presumptuous, and even irresponsible--during his calls. I don't know that Denman was actually the first caller in North America to describe races in this fashion. I would wager, however, that, for better or worse (I lean strongly toward better), the Durban native has influenced the profession more widely, profoundly, and enduringly than any caller before or since.

Understand, I like Tom Durkin, though not because of--or, for that matter, in spite of--his differences from Denman, Wrona, Rennert, and others. Whatever else he may be, Durkin is definitely Old School--but decidedly not Old Hat.

--falconridge

falconridge
09-11-2005, 08:08 PM
Then according to your own testimony, Joe, your original post is irrelevant, and you should leave the question of announcer competence to people for whom the call actually matters. :) I agree that Denman is terrific, but, as PA pointed out, he has some annoying qualities too--like starting every big race with poor grammar: "The field for the Pacific Classic sent on their way". (The field--singular--is sent on its way.
Usage of the kind you quote, Lasix1, illustrates a difference--one of many--between British (and, I'd infer, also Australian, South African, colonial, and even--though to a lesser extent--Canadian) and American formal standard usage. You correctly point out that field is a singular noun, as are such other collective nouns as flock, herd, crowd, and staff. Hence, field assumes, according to the orthodoxy followed by those of us Yanks who care about such things, a singular predicate and a singular pronominal adjective (again, because, as you point out, the subject or antecedent is singular in number).

The Brits--and a certain (or, rather, uncertain) number of others--however, do it differently. In the United Kingdom, a government official or corporate executive might say something like "My staff have been most helpful lately in adjusting to the constraints resulting from recent setbacks." Despite its sounding queer and illogical to a U.S. grammarian, such a sentence does comply with the rules of British formal standard usage, under which collective nouns--presumably because they imply plurality--take plural verbs, and are referred to with plural pronouns and pronominal adjectives (as in "The relentless and unruly horde have burst through the barriers, bullied their way past police and infiltrated Number Ten").

Of course, all of this is not to say that Denman doesn't occasionally butcher the language, irrespective of regional differences. The example Lasix1 cites, however, does not illustrate an especially egregious case thereof.

I provide this information cheerfully and, I hope, in a manner my colleagues will not judge to be too pedantic. Know that I am heartened, Lasix1, to find another who cares about such things, and who is knowledgeable enough to comment intelligently upon them.

Best wishes,

falconridge

toetoe
09-11-2005, 11:40 PM
Lasix,

Falc beat me to the punch. The Brits say, "Brasil are into the final," for example, and it's fine, as Trev doesn't say, "the field IS sent on their way," he just leaves out the verb as understood. This solves a huge flaw that Yanks have in sports reporting, where Boston is going with their closer, etc. Just treat the team as plural to start with, and you'll be consistent. Only in America can we get constructions such as, "Everybody for themselves" or " ... theirself." EEK!

Pacecap mentioned simo, which I call OMSAM --- Old Men Screaming At Monitors.

reckless
09-12-2005, 05:35 PM
I have enjoyed this thread as much as any other... thanks to all.

I always thought when a player wins a bet, the often-terrible announcing is tolorated, but when a race is lost, the announcer is a shit head.

I have always tempered my opinions on race track announcers because it's one of the few jobs in horse racing that I know I cannot do.

But, I have my favorites and dislikes just like the rest of you guys.

I fondly remember they guy at Suffolk and Rockingham before Larry Colmus, "Big" Jim Hannon. He was a real oldtimer with a tremendously raspy voice that was a mix of old Boston coupled somewhat with a ruddiness, if a sound can sound 'ruddy'. I know he used to like to taste so you can add the 'sound' of Crown Royal too which makes ruddiness charming or annoying, depending on your point of view<s>.

Jack Lee was mentioned earlier and he was a great one in his day, but he had a very bad gambling problem which I think was a reason he was fired at Freehold. Oh yeah, and then there was the time he was caught with a lady in the announcers' booth performing a Monica on Jack while a race was going on, god bless him.

I knew his dad, the legendary Mike Lee, who always bailed him out when Jack's gambling took a turn for the worst. But when Jack Lee was fired at Freehold, Mike Lee was already deceased. He couldn't bail out his son any longer, either by calling in old favors or cold, hard cash.

Once, in the early 1980s Mike Lee sold 5-6 large boxes of baseball memorabilia--he was the Secretary-Treasurer of the Baseball Writers' Assn. in New York City in the late 1940s thru 1950s. He told me I could have all of boxes for $5,000--the boxes had programs, scoresheets, a signed Don Larsen picture, etc. Great stuff but much too rich for me at the time. He needed to sell it because of jack's gambling debts.

Some may recognize the name Mike Lee---today, there's a race named after him for NY-Breds at Belmont Park. He was a legendary sports editor of a then-great daily newspaper, the Long Island Press. Just about every great NYC sportswriter of my era: Dave Anderson, Vic Ziegel, Ike Gellis, John Piesen, Phil Pepe, Bill Madden...dozens of guys that really made a name for themselves in the newspaper business, got their srat working for Mike Lee at the Long Island Press. But, I digress... sorry guys.

I think Larry Comus is very consistent and under-rated and the guy that does the jug heads at The Big M is quite capable... not sure of his name but he's originally from the Mid West area and I think he was at Great Lakes Downs in the first few years of that track's opening.

Larry Ledderman is a great announcer when he calls it straight, but too often likes to do schict.

Keith Jones at Phila. Park is a rank amateur who wouldn't know a horse if is fell on him. He's simply clueless on the nuances of a horse race, a prototypically anti-Trevor. It's hard to believe that he's been on the job 15 years or so and still is horrible.

Announcing is like being an umpire or referee.... they should NOT be a part of the game. When they do their job right and professionally, the event transcends them. Sadly, too many want to think that they are the show.

TommyCh
09-12-2005, 06:22 PM
Good and getting better: John G. Dooley, Arlington Park. Consistent with good perspective and will give you a little backstory as the race goes on.

rokitman
09-12-2005, 06:22 PM
Ya know, Reck, you're right. I've never heard an announcer that sounded bad calling my horse on a win.

rokitman
09-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Good and getting better: John G. Dooley, Arlington Park. Consistent with good perspective and will give you a little backstory as the race goes on.
Oh my godd, THAT guy. Or should I say, This and That guy. He needs to knock off the chronic backasswards "thisses" and "thats" that serve absolutely no purpose to color the racecall and every purpose to draw attention to himself as "unique."

A sore spot, this.

toetoe
09-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Rokit,

Don't know what you mean. Must admit the guy has grown on me. Sounds funny, but the monotonous nature of the calls, and here I also mean Joe Alto, serves to keep it kinda traditionally professional. The predominant alternative these days is the chatty didacticism of Vic, and even Trevor.

Vic: "By golly, Joe Glue wants the lead, and he's got it. L & G, we HAVE A NEW LEADER, AND HIS NAME IS ... (fill in the blank)! ... and FILL IN THE BLANK HAS DONE IT!" (Pause for a quick postcoital cigarette.)

Trev: "Thank you, Vic. Don't forget to put a ring around the three, and GO to the window. You can be the first on line."

racingrev
09-13-2005, 11:26 AM
Rokit,

Don't know what you mean. Must admit the guy has grown on me. Sounds funny, but the monotonous nature of the calls, and here I also mean Joe Alto, serves to keep it kinda traditionally professional. The predominant alternative these days is the chatty didacticism of Vic, and even Trevor.

Vic: "By golly, Joe Glue wants the lead, and he's got it. L & G, we HAVE A NEW LEADER, AND HIS NAME IS ... (fill in the blank)! ... and FILL IN THE BLANK HAS DONE IT!" (Pause for a quick postcoital cigarette.)

Trev: "Thank you, Vic. Don't forget to put a ring around the three, and GO to the window. You can be the first on line."

I agree with Rockit.... And as an add.. If you get back to calling the front runners too late in the home straight.. forget about the sectionals... The press will have them lol..

Hey Toetoe..... I think a nice, long cool ale is in store.... :ThmbUp: Maybe with Vic..hehe.. :jump:

toetoe
09-13-2005, 11:57 AM
As I've said ad nauseam, Vic would be a fine, fine pubmate. Actually, have I failed to say ANYTHING ad nauseam?

rokitman
09-13-2005, 02:45 PM
Rokit,

Don't know what you mean. Must admit the guy has grown on me. Sounds funny, but the monotonous nature of the calls, and here I also mean Joe Alto, serves to keep it kinda traditionally professional. The predominant alternative these days is the chatty didacticism of Vic, and even Trevor.

Vic: "By golly, Joe Glue wants the lead, and he's got it. L & G, we HAVE A NEW LEADER, AND HIS NAME IS ... (fill in the blank)! ... and FILL IN THE BLANK HAS DONE IT!" (Pause for a quick postcoital cigarette.)

Trev: "Thank you, Vic. Don't forget to put a ring around the three, and GO to the window. You can be the first on line."


Toe,

If you're not already hearing what I was talking about in his call, I'll do ya a favor and not spell it out anymore specifically than I have, this. You've been blessed by the Godds of Racing and I don't want to ruin it for ya, that!

falconridge
09-13-2005, 04:41 PM
Has anyone here ever bothered to learn the name of the seen-it-all, done-it-all slushmouth who calls the buggy races at Northfield Park? I haven't heard a sports announcer slur so many words and names since the Dodgers fired Ross ("Rosh") Porter. And it's not just the (woefully) deficient diction, but also the insufferable sing-song and and idiotically affected (I hate to use this word yet again, but since I'm too tired to think of another, here goes) insouciance that sends me scrambling to click on the "mute" icon. (Like toetoe, I sorely miss Joe Alto.)

And while we're on the subject of Northfield Park, can anyone think of why the management of any track might find an advantage in its facility being known as "The Home of the Flying Turns"? I can understand the typical publicist drool that gives us "The Track of the Lakes and Flowers" and "The Great Race Place," and "Where the Turf Meets the Surf," "Old Hilltop" and "The Red Mile" have their obvious referents to local landmarks and tradition. But what kind of bizarrerie is "The Home of the Flying Turns"?

Know anyone who's just dying to see what a flying turn looks like? Judging by how the masters of Northfield have plastered the slogan all over the plant--and keep it ever visible even on their closed-circuit feed--you'd think a flying turn held the kind of fascination and awe one associates with Machu Pichu, the Taj Mahal, Mt. Rushmore, and the hanging gardens of Babylon (none of which I've seen, by the way). And to think someone got paid for dreaming up "The Home of the Flying Turns"!

Raptly regarding the turns that fly,

Falconridge

TrackManSam
09-13-2005, 05:50 PM
The new announcer at Evangeline has no rythym whatsoever. Listening to him is like listening to people eating popcorn in a theater. Absolutely horrid. Where in the heck did they dig this guy up from?

Pace Cap'n
09-13-2005, 06:42 PM
Raptly regarding the turns that fly


Terns?

toetoe
09-13-2005, 06:42 PM
Sam,

That's John McGary. He's pretty good. We MAY be talking about two distinct guys. Is it possible they have two announcers? I guess not.

F'ridge,

Flying turns somehow reminds me of a Mark Chaplin (gambling author) phrase describing a subtle stiffing maneuver: the three-wide treadmill to nowhere. That's poetry. Also, "Nutmouth' Porter got the rawest of raw deals. They let him go and got, I think, Charlie Steiner. Okay, fine. Generic, half-awful announcer. But the indignity is twofold. THEY KEPT RICK MONDAY!, and they recently had a big sendoff, kickout party for Ross, thereby turning my mind boggly.

toetoe
09-13-2005, 07:36 PM
They're not terns, but we always had flying seagulls at GGF.

falconridge
09-13-2005, 07:42 PM
"Nutmouth' Porter got the rawest of raw deals. They let him go and got, I think, Charlie Steiner. Okay, fine. Generic, half-awful announcer. But the indignity is twofold. THEY KEPT RICK MONDAY!, and they recently had a big sendoff, kickout party for Ross, thereby turning my mind boggly.
I always felt sorry for Porter, partly because he, like Jerry Doggett before him, had to make a career of playing second fiddle to Vinny the Virtuoso. Mind you, I revere the old redhead, but I'd never wish on even the sorriest sidekick the kind of permanent latrine duty Ross had to pull--fielding rants from moronic callers on the post-game phone-in show: "Bob from Boyle Heights. First-time caller, long-time listener, love your show. Why can't we get Lasorda back? Whatever happened to Fernando? Who [sic] did we get for Ron Cey? Why don't the Dodgers get a catcher who can hit? Couldn't we trade David Ross for Pudge? ... " And so on, into the night (Next thing I'd know, I'd be hearing a pre-dawn "Traffic on the Tens" report of a SIG alert on the 405. ...) Sorry. Guess I've strayed a bit off-topic.

Oh, yeah. That was a good one, Pac Cap'n, about the flying terns. Makes more sense than Northfield's slogan. I wonder where the home of the flying terns could be. Yukon Meadows? Yellowknife Downs? Fairbanks Fields?

Spinning out on the turns,

Falconridge

falconridge
09-13-2005, 08:09 PM
They're not terns, but we always had flying seagulls at GGF.
I'll say! First time I ever took a date to the track (terned--I mean turned--out to be one of the last times, too), we'd just settled into our seats when one of those winged vermin piddled on my companion's perm. The way they'd line up, as if cued, on the rail every day at about five minutes before the feature, you'd think you'd just stumbled onto the set of a Hitchcock film.

They're comin' home now ...

Falconridge

toetoe
09-14-2005, 12:08 AM
That happened to me, and the roll towels from the men's room just couldn't get it all out of my hair. Hope you're gullible enough to believe without flipping me the bird. I've erned your respect, I'm sure.

BABBAGENE
09-14-2005, 02:22 AM
Fridge , how about at the end of every race when that Idiot at Northfield says "There they are".
He along with the annoying Roger Huston are the two announcer that make me glad there is a MUTE button on my computer.
The guy at Northfield calls the race in almost what i like to call a singing rythm(but yet calls it like he is half asleep) , just really annoys the shit out of me.

Tom Barrister
09-14-2005, 05:54 AM
"That Idiot" is Greg Young, who's been around for many years and is considered by his peers to be one of the best in the business. Young subscribes to the old-school unwritten rule of not calling down the finish. He gives a good representation of the relative positions of the horses as they reach the wire and then signs off. He does a good job of describing what's going on during a race, and he rarely makes a mistake.

falconridge
09-14-2005, 12:59 PM
That happened to me, and the roll towels from the men's room just couldn't get it all out of my hair. Hope you're gullible enough to believe without flipping me the bird. I've erned your respect, I'm sure.
Gullible I am. Flip you the bird, I'll not. Earned--erned, too--my respect, you have.

I notice the young--and even not so young--'uns nowadays refer to the inverted construction of my three previous sentences as "Yoda speak," though in fact Marcus Tullius Cicero orated in just that fashion when he railed against Catiline, and thus did Vergil versify when singing of arms and the man. Ablative absolutes having (nearly) gone unused, I'll end with with a tribute to the great Joe Alto (who is actually a Baritone).

"They're comin' home now ... "

Falconridge

falconridge
09-14-2005, 01:33 PM
"That Idiot" is Greg Young, who's been around for many years and is considered by his peers to be one of the best in the business. Young subscribes to the old-school unwritten rule of not calling down the finish. He gives a good representation of the relative positions of the horses as they reach the wire and then signs off. He does a good job of describing what's going on during a race, and he rarely makes a mistake.
Again, pace Tom B for his defense of the Voice of the Home of the Flying Turns. I have no peeve with Young's (by the way, thanks also for giving us his name) not calling the order of finish (see my earlier post, #160, in this thread). My problem is with his diction. Young's apparent aversion to consonants, especially N's and L's, make me wonder if, when a namesake of Nihilator brushes past rivals on a first-over move, some mutant reptile hasn't savaged one of the Standardbreds. Did he just say some kind of 'gator devoured the pacesetters?

And there you are ... ,

falconridge

toetoe
09-14-2005, 02:58 PM
F'riend,

Don't find me accusative, please; but you, sir, are a de-genitive.

falconridge
09-14-2005, 04:27 PM
Don't find me accusative, please; but you, sir, are a de-genitive.
Hey, Hick (or hic)!

Hike (or haec) the level of discourse if you will,
hawk (or hoc) your picks to the Circus Maximus punters if you must,
but (in the parlance of veteran referee Joey Curtis, who always concluded his pre-fight instructions with "When I tap youse on da back, I want youse [or 'wantchas'] t' break clean") who youse (or hujus) think yer kiddin', anyway?

Just to stay on--or return to--topic, any idea who replaced the late Gunnar Froines at Ferndale (Home of the Unbanked Turns)? Or whatever became of Danny Alameda?

By the way, as a Latinist, our colleague Overlay, who's read Ovid and Lucretius without having to resort to interlinear ponies or schoolboy parsings, has me beat all hollow. Small wonder he's spawned an Ivy League scholar.

Proud of my C-minus from Fr. Kelly,

f'ridge

Overlay
09-14-2005, 07:12 PM
Don't forget Horace: "Post equitem sedet atra cura." (It'd be tough to get mounts at the Coliseum with that extra weight.)

By the way, a big thumbs-up for that "Grey Eminence" tag!

toetoe
09-15-2005, 01:02 AM
Eminence Grease, the new musical sequel!

My foxy Latin teacher (FEMALE, wiseguy!), when implored by me to pay a conjugal visit, naturally ... declined.

cj
09-15-2005, 02:36 PM
I don't dislike Durkin at all, but WOW, his call of the 2nd was horrendous. He did finally admit he couldn't see well, but until then, it was almost painful to listen. Many mistakes, then he sounded like he was in panic mode.

VicD
09-16-2005, 09:24 AM
The guys who retired and has since come back to Cal Expo harness, Joe Alto is very good...Still think Lederman is the best in the business... Great caller, accurate, funny....
Who was the guy filling in for Ross Morton at FL??
I would rather stick an icepick in my ear than listen to him for a full card...
Guy at Oaklawn also sucks....
Do tracks in England and Australia use announcers with NY/NJ/Brooklyn accents?? Would Denaman still be revered if he sounded like he came from the Bronx??
I don't see the fascination with the English racecallers here....

iggy
09-16-2005, 10:07 AM
Do tracks in England and Australia use announcers with NY/NJ/Brooklyn accents?? Would Denaman still be revered if he sounded like he came from the Bronx??
I don't see the fascination with the English racecallers here....

Are you suggesting that Denman is English?

midnight
09-16-2005, 02:32 PM
What VicD probably means is the callers with Queen's English accents, which would include the actual British, the Australians, the New Zealanders, and the South Africans.

sparkywowo
09-16-2005, 05:16 PM
Local idiot who pronounces Miesque as Mis-Cue rather than MEE-esk

toetoe
09-16-2005, 06:53 PM
Once, Trevor pronounced Baby Chile, kind of a Southern term, as Baby Chil-lee. I thought that was cool, he was trying hard. Don't get me started on the Brasilian names. One problem is that the alphabet is different. C-cedilha is a separate letter, soft c when NOT followed by i, e or y. With no cedilha, how can a guy know how to pronounce, for example, Ligacao Direta, or Nossa Cancao. The c has a cedilha, and the -ao blend has a til (pronounced chi-ew) over the a, giving it a nazalized sound, almost rhyming with down.

Lee-gah-SOWN Gee-Ret-da;

Noh-sa Cun-SOWN.

Anything close is admirable.

falconridge
09-16-2005, 09:24 PM
Lee-gah-SOWN Gee-Ret-da;

Noh-sa Cun-SOWN.

Anything close is admirable.
Though lacking toetoe's authority on Portuguese literation and phonetics, I knew, when Trevor was calling A. C. Avila's charge in the Fairplex Sunday feature, that the pronunciation was a bit off. Nevertheless, I, too, applaud the effort. (By the way, toe, thanks for the gloss.)

At least 18 years ago Denman showed me that he would always give it his best whenever he encountered an exotic or difficult name. He hadn't been in the southern California for very long when--some time in the late 80s, I think--the name Sonrie Jorge turned up in the program. Curious, but not optimistic, about what this shirty new upstart would do with that, I reached for my earplugs as I awaited a report of "Sawn-ry George's" trip around the Santa Anita oval. No such John Gibson-esque abomination did I hear. Sewn-REE-eh HOR-hay it was, prominent from flag-fall to five-eighths pole--and, despite the early fade, still distinct enough in my mind's ear to inspire this none-too-captivating installment of the Falconridge Chronicles.

And so to bet.

--Falconridge Pepys

toetoe
09-16-2005, 10:44 PM
Obrigado, Falcao. If I sound half as didactic as VStauff, I've failed, failed utterly. Dreading an answer of "YES!," I am


Straight And Strong,
Cuthbert J. Toetoe

Lasix1
09-16-2005, 11:28 PM
Usage of the kind you quote, Lasix1, illustrates a difference--one of many--between British (and, I'd infer, also Australian, South African, colonial, and even--though to a lesser extent--Canadian) and American formal standard usage. You correctly point out that field is a singular noun, as are such other collective nouns as flock, herd, crowd, and staff. Hence, field assumes, according to the orthodoxy followed by those of us Yanks who care about such things, a singular predicate and a singular pronominal adjective (again, because, as you point out, the subject or antecedent is singular in number).

The Brits--and a certain (or, rather, uncertain) number of others--however, do it differently. In the United Kingdom, a government official or corporate executive might say something like "My staff have been most helpful lately in adjusting to the constraints resulting from recent setbacks." Despite its sounding queer and illogical to a U.S. grammarian, such a sentence does comply with the rules of British formal standard usage, under which collective nouns--presumably because they imply plurality--take plural verbs, and are referred to with plural pronouns and pronominal adjectives (as in "The relentless and unruly horde have burst through the barriers, bullied their way past police and infiltrated Number Ten").

Of course, all of this is not to say that Denman doesn't occasionally butcher the language, irrespective of regional differences. The example Lasix1 cites, however, does not illustrate an especially egregious case thereof.

I provide this information cheerfully and, I hope, in a manner my colleagues will not judge to be too pedantic. Know that I am heartened, Lasix1, to find another who cares about such things, and who is knowledgeable enough to comment intelligently upon them.

Best wishes,

falconridge
My God, I had no idea that we had such bright linguistic scholars as Falconridge and Toetoe in our midst.

As a result of their erudition, I am delighted to stand corrected on my allegation of poor grammar on the part of Treavor Denman, Esq. And in the spirit of multi-culturalism, I will also refrain from making some provincial and ethnocentric remark like: "Now, if they'd just move Del Mar to Australia he'd be grammatically correct."

Since we're the only ones likely to notice, I'll start seeing it as charming instead of jarring. Thanks for the lesson--and the chuckle. :)

best wishes to both of you---Lasix1

chickenhead
09-17-2005, 12:43 AM
any idea who replaced the late Gunnar Froines at Ferndale (Home of the Unbanked Turns)?

Happy to see mention of Gunnar, a fixture for 42 years. John McGary has taken over.

falconridge
09-17-2005, 12:52 AM
Yo, Straight and Strong:

If I'd ever entertained any doubts about the straightness (not that I've ever been the least bit judgmental of those who go the "festive" or Sapphic way), the tale of the lady Latin teacher would have banished them. And the crack about JLo's backside would do--as, come to think of it, would JLo's backside--in a pinch.

A colleague has gently upbraided us for not sticking strictly to horse racing in our posts (find said remonstrance in one of the "Off Topic" Forums) . So, what kind of a jockey do you think JLo might have made? And spare us any ripostes along the lines of "Well, she has a good seat."

Oh, yeah, we're in a thread about announcers. Never was there such a Clem as McCarthy! And Durkin! Is not the very name a vestigial tie to the bardic (something beginning with "B" so as to bring off yet another cheap alliteration)? As in Scott's "Durkining plain" or the Homeric "wine-Durk sea"? I guess not.

And so to bet.

--Ringgold Wilmer Falconridge (1885-1933)

falconridge
09-17-2005, 02:00 AM
My God, I had no idea that we had such bright linguistic scholars as Falconridge and Toetoe in our midst.

Thanks for the lesson--and the chuckle. :)

best wishes to both of you---Lasix1
Many thanks, Lasix, for the gracious acknowledgment and felicitation. Right back atcha. I was afraid some phantom Reputation Ranger would bust me lower than the notorious Fishorsechess (before my time, that lad) for going all English majory (I could--probably should--lose a stripe or two from my sleeve for "English majory"), but clearly you're well above that.

Now if I could just get over this complex I have about betting on horses with misspelled names. For all the dividends Plugged Nickle returned to his backers, he never got a nickel of mine. Know a good psychotherapist who specializes in this sort of malady?

Best fishes,

Sigmund Falconreud

Overlay
09-17-2005, 02:13 AM
And Durkin! Is not the very name a vestigial tie to the bardic (something beginning with "B" so as to bring off yet another cheap alliteration)? As in Scott's "Durkining plain" or the Homeric "wine-Durk sea"? I guess not.

You apparently have yet to learn the power of the Durk Side, young Jedi !

toetoe
09-17-2005, 12:15 PM
Falco,

Mark Cramer has a bit in his book about strange names. I think if a horse has a weird enough name, it will rarely get bet hard. Cramer's example was a decent sort named Core A Apple. The lack of an 'n' between 'a's' makes it very cumbersome. A One Rocket does not qualify, because of the understood 'w'.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a change not previously announced. The rider of the 1, Debatable Talent, Jennifer Lopez, now wears spurs and a thong.

Stillriledup
12-17-2010, 05:12 PM
Mike Battaglia is not a bad announcer IMO. It's not like he gets his calls wrong.

But Richard Grunder at Tampa Bay Downs is the absolute worst announcer in the game BY FAR. He's not only obnoxious, but he makes errors and he calls horses flying down the stretch when they're not even a threat to hit the board. There is absolutely noone worse than him.

and 5 years later, he's still making horseplayers reach for that mute button.

johnhannibalsmith
12-17-2010, 05:20 PM
and 5 years later, he's still making horseplayers reach for that mute button.

Are you bored?

Ian Meyers
12-17-2010, 05:41 PM
What if you were an accountant or a cop and people posted about your poor job performance on public forums? How would that make you feel?

If you don't like a specific announcer turn down the volume. Better yet, I'd like to see someone casting stones actually try to call a race themselves. I have tried it and IMHO its much harder than it looks. I sucked at it.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy holidays to all. :)

jballscalls
12-17-2010, 06:22 PM
What if you were an accountant or a cop and people posted about your poor job performance on public forums? How would that make you feel?

If you don't like a specific announcer turn down the volume. Better yet, I'd like to see someone casting stones actually try to call a race themselves. I have tried it and IMHO its much harder than it looks. I sucked at it.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy holidays to all. :)

One thing you have to remember Ian is that we announcers are paid like big time professional athletes, therefore we're open to public riducule :rolleyes:

I hate threads like this, but really with the internet now, everyone is fair game. there are websites that rate performances of teachers, barbers, restaurants, anything really.

not to mention, because money is involved, i think some people when they lose get irritated and want to blame someone. I know when i've lost wagers at Hollywood, i yell and scream and blame Vic!!

Stillriledup
12-17-2010, 06:25 PM
One thing you have to remember Ian is that we announcers are paid like big time professional athletes, therefore we're open to public riducule :rolleyes:

I hate threads like this, but really with the internet now, everyone is fair game. there are websites that rate performances of teachers, barbers, restaurants, anything really.

not to mention, because money is involved, i think some people when they lose get irritated and want to blame someone. I know when i've lost wagers at Hollywood, i yell and scream and blame Vic!!

Can someone please name a horse: Blame Vic

Thanks.

Btw, its not about blame, people don't care about blaming someone, its just about nails on the chalkboard. When people are at home holed up in their gambling dens, they don't want or need this chalkboard stuff. I know personally, when i'm trying to concentrate on my handicapping, i like things quiet. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

jballscalls
12-17-2010, 06:37 PM
Can someone please name a horse: Blame Vic

Thanks.

Btw, its not about blame, people don't care about blaming someone, its just about nails on the chalkboard. When people are at home holed up in their gambling dens, they don't want or need this chalkboard stuff. I know personally, when i'm trying to concentrate on my handicapping, i like things quiet. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

i know, i was kind of making a joke about the whole blaming thing. announcers are like ice cream flavors, everyone has different things they like and don't like. one man's Durkin is another man's me and vice a versa

Bruddah
12-17-2010, 08:42 PM
I appreciate all you say about Terry Wallace, and with video, I can see it for myself most times, so his calls don't really matter. That said, he is HORRIBLE!

Personally, I enjoy Terry Wallaces calls and have for years. He has many attributes but the main thing he has, which others in this Industry (thorughbreds) only dream about, is a steady year around gig for 35+ years. The rest are wannabe's or those with shoulda, woulda, coulda written on their resume's.

jballscalls
12-17-2010, 09:04 PM
Personally, I enjoy Terry Wallaces calls and have for years. He has many attributes but the main thing he has, which others in this Industry (thorughbreds) only dream about, is a steady year around gig for 35+ years. The rest are wannabe's or those with shoulda, woulda, coulda written on their resume's.

There's actually a number of guys who have year round jobs, and i agree, it is nice not having to move and it's nice getting a paycheck all year, and nice to get benefits!

Thanks Magna!!

Market Mover
12-17-2010, 09:47 PM
Battaglia is pretty damn bad..............


Never Forget......................


Somebody is "Gaining Ground" in every race


...gets horseplayers real excited...until you realize that horse is 15 lengths from the lead and is passing tired horses for 4th...

Bruddah
12-17-2010, 09:52 PM
There's actually a number of guys who have year round jobs, and i agree, it is nice not having to move and it's nice getting a paycheck all year, and nice to get benefits!

Thanks Magna!!

Wishing you a run of 35+ years or as long as you want. :ThmbUp:

1GCFAN
12-18-2010, 12:20 AM
I will take anybody who doesn't have a British accent. Why do they think we like to hear them?

The guy at Arlington is my choice as best.

Cardus
12-18-2010, 12:23 AM
Personally, I enjoy Terry Wallaces calls and have for years. He has many attributes but the main thing he has, which others in this Industry (thorughbreds) only dream about, is a steady year around gig for 35+ years. The rest are wannabe's or those with shoulda, woulda, coulda written on their resume's.

Describe his attributes.

cj
12-18-2010, 12:23 AM
Personally, I enjoy Terry Wallaces calls and have for years. He has many attributes but the main thing he has, which others in this Industry (thorughbreds) only dream about, is a steady year around gig for 35+ years. The rest are wannabe's or those with shoulda, woulda, coulda written on their resume's.

None of that means he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

banacek
12-18-2010, 12:51 AM
None of that means he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

I'm obviously not putting Terry Wallace in the same league as Tom Durkin, but on the thread on Tom Durkin making mistakes you replied:

I'm glad somebody didn't start a thread about me every time I was troubleshooting an air conditioner and made a mistake over at ExpansionValve.com.

cj
12-18-2010, 12:55 AM
I'm obviously not putting Terry Wallace in the same league as Tom Durkin, but on the thread on Tom Durkin making mistakes you replied:

I know, but he makes A LOT of mistakes. I really don't care, I think I mentioned that already, I just didn't get the point of quoting me and then saying he has been there for 35 years.

Market Mover
12-18-2010, 02:03 AM
Unfortunately, in these times a thoroughbred player is often subjected against his will to the sights and sounds of harness racing. It is in this arena of rickshaw pullers where the worst of the worst are found. And the ruling Caesar Annoyance of the Ben-Hur world is Roger Houston at the Meadows. That man should not be allowed within 50 feet of a live microphone. Tough for me to handicap the 9th at Sunland while Roger is yelling "Onnnnnnnnne twennnnnny seven and threeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!" at the top of his lungs.

Speed Figure, if you didn't like Ol' Jim at Mnr, there's a harness announcer-- at Northfield, IIRC-- who mumbles incoherently for about two minutes and then leaves the bettors with "and there they are" at the wire. I guess his opinion is: figure it out for yourselves, I just work here.


Haha!! "AND...THERE THEY ARE...." as he slowly fades away and basically leaves you guessing what the finish might have been...classic harness stuff only from the Home of the Flying Turns..

Market Mover
12-18-2010, 02:06 AM
Hey RXB, you made me laugh with your last post. When I first heard Roger Houston I thought he was very entertaining, but he gets old REAL fast. Now I think he's kinda pathethic and I wish he'd just call a race every once in a while like he wasn't hyped up on coke and caffeine. As for the "...and there they are!" announcer, I, too, am always left scratching my head as to what just transpired in a race when he calls it, and the announcer at Penn National always uses the word "then" in his calls. Like: "It's two lengths, then, to Mr. So and So."

Announcers on the bottom tier just make you appreciate the good ones even more. I was watching the Big A today and marveled at the way Tom Durkin can make short fields in the dead of winter seem interesting. ;)



The Penn National announcer used to tell everyone in this annoying voice: "It is now post time..."

And he previously had surprised patrons by a quick and suddenly loud "THEY'RE OFF!"...I think someone may have complained so when they've loaded the last one in, now he says "they're all set."

And then the sonic boom.

Market Mover
12-18-2010, 02:10 AM
Dave Rodman? He's one of the better ones, imo, although I hear him much more at Colonial than at Pimlico. When it comes to bad announcers ...

... FFFOOORRR TTTHHHEEE LLLEEEAAADDD ... Battaglia. I enjoy his handicapping show at Churchill, and he's not bad in the paddock at Keeneland, but when he goes north to Turfway he seems to leave a lot behind.

Battaglia has done too much for KY racing that they are not going to get rid of him anytime soon. From giving out losing favorites on BC telecasts to blowing stretch calls one "GAINING GROUND" repetition after another, Mike never seems to fail to deliver.

They've even honored him with a plaque at one of the big restaurants (I forget if it's at Malone's in Lex or Grey Goose) in Kentucky, but they spelled Battaglia with one T:) Very fitting...:)

sandpit
12-18-2010, 02:43 AM
Battaglia has done too much for KY racing that they are not going to get rid of him anytime soon. From giving out losing favorites on BC telecasts to blowing stretch calls one "GAINING GROUND" repetition after another, Mike never seems to fail to deliver.

They've even honored him with a plaque at one of the big restaurants (I forget if it's at Malone's in Lex or Grey Goose) in Kentucky, but they spelled Battaglia with one T:) Very fitting...:)

It's Malone's out at Palomar shopping center...I noticed the plaque in the hall right outside the men's room.

BlueShoe
12-18-2010, 12:59 PM
Just curious, but is reviving a 5 year and 3 month old thread a PA all time record? Recall a few that sat for a long time, but 5 yrs. plus? Do think that this bitchin about announcers that we do not care for has worn itself out and needs to be put to sleep. Praising those we do like much better use of time.

Bruddah
12-18-2010, 01:43 PM
None of that means he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

It comes down to personal preference. I would take Terry's call over Trevor Denman or Mike Battaglia anyday. You want to talk mistakes made during race calls? Start there, plus you can't understand Denman. Actually you can understand his signature Awaaaaay they goo. I want to tear what hair I have out, when I hear that nasal twang. :ThmbDown:

Walter
12-18-2010, 02:03 PM
I will take anybody who doesn't have a British accent. Why do they think we like to hear them?
Funny you should say that, because we have an American guy over here in the U.K, sorry I don't know his name, whenever I see his face the mute goes ON

strapper
12-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Funny you should say that, because we have an American guy over here in the U.K, sorry I don't know his name, whenever I see his face the mute goes ON

Hard to believe there is an American announcer in the UK. It must be a very short meet?

johnhannibalsmith
12-18-2010, 02:47 PM
On the plus side:

I didn't watch any Big A this week until just a few moments ago and after enjoying Andy (I don't have any idea what the hell he said, I just like closing my eyes and listening to him tawwlk and pretending I'm back in New York now and then) I noticed one of my favorites - John Imbriale - was back on the job for the winter.

Yay! :jump:

jballscalls
12-18-2010, 03:04 PM
It comes down to personal preference. I would take Terry's call over Trevor Denman or Mike Battaglia anyday. You want to talk mistakes made during race calls? Start there, plus you can't understand Denman. Actually you can understand his signature Awaaaaay they goo. I want to tear what hair I have out, when I hear that nasal twang. :ThmbDown:

seriously how can you not understand Trevor? i've probably listened to thousands of his calls, and don't think once i've thought "what did he say?"

if you dont like an accent thats one thing, but to say you can't understand him when he speaks perfectly fine, seems odd

Bruddah
12-18-2010, 10:43 PM
seriously how can you not understand Trevor? i've probably listened to thousands of his calls, and don't think once i've thought "what did he say?"

if you dont like an accent thats one thing, but to say you can't understand him when he speaks perfectly fine, seems odd

What I have said about Trevor is not news to this board. I have been consistent on several past threads about my dislike of his style, accent and many mistakes. Search the past threads and read for yourself.

By the way, a negative view of Trevor is held by many on this board. So, I'm not the Lone Ranger.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing your calls. But, I seriously doubt your style, accent and many mistakes are as bad as Trevors. When I hear his calls, it's like he grates on my last nerve.

duncan04
12-19-2010, 01:55 AM
What I have said about Trevor is not news to this board. I have been consistent on several past threads about my dislike of his style, accent and many mistakes. Search the past threads and read for yourself.

By the way, a negative view of Trevor is held by many on this board. So, I'm not the Lone Ranger.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing your calls. But, I seriously doubt your style, accent and many mistakes are as bad as Trevors. When I hear his calls, it's like he grates on my last nerve.


This WAS a past thread and probably should of been left that way!! :sleeping: :sleeping: :lol:

jballscalls
12-19-2010, 01:18 PM
I've never had the pleasure of hearing your calls. But, I seriously doubt your style, accent and many mistakes are as bad as Trevors. When I hear his calls, it's like he grates on my last nerve.

then you'll probably hate me, cause i'll never be as good as he is

Bruddah
12-19-2010, 03:57 PM
then you'll probably hate me, cause i'll never be as good as he is
I don't hate you JB! I just have an opposing viewpoint of someone you idolize. Nothing wrong with either of our positions. They are just polar opposite.

If your personal goals aren't higher than Trevor's abilities, well, let me continue to wish you the best in your chosen profession.

Bye the Bye ol Bean, I don't hate Trevor either. I do hate his style, accent and incessant mistakes. As a Racing fan for over 45 years (probably more years than you are old) I am allowed my opinions.

jballscalls
12-19-2010, 04:30 PM
[/B]
I don't hate you JB! I just have an opposing viewpoint of someone you idolize. Nothing wrong with either of our positions. They are just polar opposite.

If your personal goals aren't higher than Trevor's abilities, well, let me continue to wish you the best in your chosen profession.

Bye the Bye ol Bean, I don't hate Trevor either. I do hate his style, accent and incessant mistakes. As a Racing fan for over 45 years (probably more years than you are old) I am allowed my opinions.

never once did i say you couldnt have an opinion. but yes i do very much disagree with yours.

My personal goals are to be the best i can be. and making it to tracks like Santa Anita and Del Mar are my dream, not likely to happen, but still going to work towards it. who knows, i'm sure stranger things have happened :)

Bruddah
12-19-2010, 04:47 PM
May Good Fortune smile on you. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

strapper
12-20-2010, 10:41 AM
Thoroughbred Times just did a big feature on Terry Wallace, the Oaklawn guy. He's a jack of all trades - handles the media, too. Maybe he's got too much on his plate.:faint:

Lots of announcers also do PR work, that's nothing out of the ordinary really.
Don Stevens does it here at Delta Downs; I used to do it when I was calling. Terry Wallace is Mr. Oaklawn. He may be repetitive and get one wrong now and then, but his voice is distinctive and the majority of the fans up there love him. He's an institution much the way the gentleman used to be in Chicago who used the trademark "spinning out of the turn".....his name escapes me at the moment - please refresh.

Bruddah
12-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Lots of announcers also do PR work, that's nothing out of the ordinary really.
Don Stevens does it here at Delta Downs; I used to do it when I was calling. Terry Wallace is Mr. Oaklawn. He may be repetitive and get one wrong now and then, but his voice is distinctive and the majority of the fans up there love him. He's an institution much the way the gentleman used to be in Chicago who used the trademark "spinning out of the turn".....his name escapes me at the moment - please refresh.

I think your speaking of Phil Georgeff(sp?). When I lived in Chicago, he was an icon and treat to hear calling a race. A really distinctive style and loved by all in Chicago and Illinois.

strapper
12-20-2010, 12:13 PM
I think your speaking of Phil Georgeff(sp?). When I lived in Chicago, he was an icon and treat to hear calling a race. A really distinctive style and loved by all in Chicago and Illinois.

Yes Phil Georgeff is the guy. I think Tony Bentley tried to replace him but the fans would have none of it.

illinoisbred
12-20-2010, 12:34 PM
Yes Phil Georgeff is the guy. I think Tony Bentley tried to replace him but the fans would have none of it.
No, I do think Bentley was the racecaller at Canterbury in their 1st years. Georgeoff was followed by Kevin Goemmer, Kurt Becker, Michael Wrona,and the still current John G. Dooley.

jballscalls
12-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Lots of announcers also do PR work, that's nothing out of the ordinary really.
Don Stevens does it here at Delta Downs; I used to do it when I was calling. Terry Wallace is Mr. Oaklawn. He may be repetitive and get one wrong now and then, but his voice is distinctive and the majority of the fans up there love him. He's an institution much the way the gentleman used to be in Chicago who used the trademark "spinning out of the turn".....his name escapes me at the moment - please refresh.

yeah most tracks nowadays are looking to kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone. I know Travis at LaD does media stuff, I do at PM, Keith Jones i believe does at Philly, Dan Jukich at Hastings is the simulcast coordinator, Don Stevens does PR, Terry Wallace, I think Matt Hook does other stuff at Pinnacle, Peter Aiello at River works in the race office and calls the races.

wisconsin
12-20-2010, 02:15 PM
Yes Phil Georgeff is the guy. I think Tony Bentley tried to replace him but the fans would have none of it.

Actually, before he was fired, he was told by John Mooney and Madison Square garden/Gulf Western to drop his trademark tag, and he began to say "thundering or charging out of the turn". He was fired in August of 1982.

John Imbriale was then brought in. Fans booed him unmercifully. Bentley was brought in for 1983, but was gone after Georgeoff was hired back in August after Duch and his partners bought out Madison Square Garden, and he stayed there until he retired in 1992.

Bruddah
12-20-2010, 02:22 PM
Actually, before he was fired, he was told by John Mooney and Madison Square garden/Gulf Western to drop his trademark tag, and he began to say "thundering or charging out of the turn". He was fired in August of 1982.

John Imbriale was then brought in. Fans booed him unmercifully. Bentley was brought in for 1983, but was gone after Georgeoff was hired back in August after Duch and his partners bought out Madison Square Garden, and he stayed there until he retired in 1992.

When he was fired at Arlington, didn't he continue to call ay Sportsman and Hawthorne. I don't remember all the details because it was so long ago. I do know the boys on Cicero Ave were upset over his firing.

illinoisbred
12-20-2010, 02:30 PM
Actually, before he was fired, he was told by John Mooney and Madison Square garden/Gulf Western to drop his trademark tag, and he began to say "thundering or charging out of the turn". He was fired in August of 1982.

John Imbriale was then brought in. Fans booed him unmercifully. Bentley was brought in for 1983, but was gone after Georgeoff was hired back in August after Duch and his partners bought out Madison Square Garden, and he stayed there until he retired in 1992.
I'm always amazed at how great your memory is for these things. I do vaguely now remember the loud booing of one announcer.

Phantombridgejumpe
12-20-2010, 05:54 PM
John Imbriale, is very solid.

Exciting, but not over the top, accurate calls on a day to day basis.

I still like Durkin for the big races, but on a typical Wednesday on the NYRA curcuit I'd take Imbriale.

Off topic for sure, and maybe never to return, but both harness guys at the Meadowlands are excellent (Sam McKee and Ken Warkentin).

wisconsin
12-20-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm always amazed at how great your memory is for these things. I do vaguely now remember the loud booing of one announcer.


In particular, it was the 1982 Arlington-Washington Futurity, which was still on TV back then. 20k fans booing poor John Imbriale. It was pretty shocking to hear that at a racetrack. I was there, and I can still remember that. I've often wondered what he must have thought.

Bruddah,
He went to call them at the Balmoral flat meet until Hawthorne opened.

Anyone else remeber Vic Stauffer calling Hawthorne after Kurt Becker went to NASCAR? And did you guys know that Kevin Goemmer was killed in a car accident a couple of years after left announcing? Kevin "has given this field the slip!"

illinoisbred
12-20-2010, 07:39 PM
I remember Stauffer calling at Hawthorne..what was it -just a year? Earlier that same summer,he was always out and about at Arlington. Think he may have been dating Caton Metzler back then.

BlueShoe
12-20-2010, 08:40 PM
20k fans booing poor John Imbriale. It was pretty shocking to hear that at a racetrack.
Never knew this until now, am a bit stunned, since I consider Johnny I to be one of the best in the nation. In fact, prefer his work to that of Durkin.

wisconsin
12-21-2010, 01:34 PM
Never knew this until now, am a bit stunned, since I consider Johnny I to be one of the best in the nation. In fact, prefer his work to that of Durkin.

Phil Georgeoff was an intstitution in Chicago, especially Arlington, where he was announcing since 1957. He did the thoroughbreds in the afternoon and then the pacers at night until 1979 or so (except Sportsman's summer meet-Gil Levine). Fans truly revolted. Someone was handing out "Mooney is a Looney" t-shirts in the parking lot (John Mooney, who fired Georgeoff). When he was hired back, they flew him into Arlington's infield in a chopper!

Personally, I like John Imbriale's calls, but when you are playing one circuit, all you knew was your own.

Valuist
12-21-2010, 01:48 PM
SQ-

There was a blast from the past. I checked the start date of this thread....Jan 5 of 2005! The US racing world (and Canada for that matter) had not yet been poisoned by Polytrack. The White Sox STILL hadn't won a World Series in 90 years or so, and the Red Sox finally broke their streak. And the Cubs...oh yeah, never mind.

EMD4ME
12-26-2016, 06:21 PM
Whoever just called the 6th at Turf Paralyzed, should never be allowed to speak again.

He sounds like Battaglia was his mentor.

My ears hurt.....

Late backstretch, calls a few names, then says: the oders r a ways back.

Chee thanks :lol: :lol:

As horses are galloping out, he finally says So and So in front.... :bang:


WOW

MonmouthParkJoe
12-26-2016, 06:28 PM
Phil Georgeoff was an intstitution in Chicago, especially Arlington, where he was announcing since 1957. He did the thoroughbreds in the afternoon and then the pacers at night until 1979 or so (except Sportsman's summer meet-Gil Levine). Fans truly revolted. Someone was handing out "Mooney is a Looney" t-shirts in the parking lot (John Mooney, who fired Georgeoff). When he was hired back, they flew him into Arlington's infield in a chopper!

Personally, I like John Imbriale's calls, but when you are playing one circuit, all you knew was your own.

I like Imbriale alot too. I actually prefer him to alot of the announcers out there now.

no breathalyzer
12-26-2016, 06:50 PM
Whoever just called the 6th at Turf Paralyzed, should never be allowed to speak again.

He sounds like Battaglia was his mentor.

My ears hurt.....

Late backstretch, calls a few names, then says: the oders r a ways back.

Chee thanks :lol: :lol:

As horses are galloping out, he finally says So and So in front.... :bang:


WOW

pretty sure that's the guy that had brain cancer .. or some type of real serious illness so he gets a pass.... it is very unpleasant tho

EMD4ME
12-26-2016, 06:51 PM
pretty sure that's the guy that had brain cancer .. or some type of real serious illness so he gets a pass.... it is very unpleasant tho

He has brain cancer?????????? If that's the case, I retract it all :(

But....


You sure not talking about our buddy from the old Garden State Park, who called at Parx today?

no breathalyzer
12-26-2016, 07:17 PM
He has brain cancer?????????? If that's the case, I retract it all :(

But....


You sure not talking about our buddy from the old Garden State Park, who called at Parx today?
i think you are correct actually ..... if that guy naturally that bad OMG :D