Anyone Purchase ValueCappe Software?

[Paulo]

I viewed the videos and still undecided on wether or not to purchase the software. I think the problem is I am not sure if I the patience or discipline to sit and wait for price horses to come in.
Would anyone who purchased the software care to comment?

[MPRanger]

If you are not betting on overlays you are losing money and will continue to lose money. Waiting for a price horse is your job." It's what you get paid for." to quote Michael Pizzola.

[green80]

If you are not betting on overlays you are losing money and will continue to lose money. Waiting for a price horse is your job." It's what you get paid for." to quote Michael Pizzola.

The same is true of any software you use.

[chuckster1968]

working on it, its expensive though

[MPRanger]

I viewed the videos and still undecided on wether or not to purchase the software. I think the problem is I am not sure if I the patience or discipline to sit and wait for price horses to come in.
Would anyone who purchased the software care to comment?


It's not finding the price horse that requires so much guts. Black Magic makes that easy. It's the runouts which will test your metal.

Another thing to watch for is just relying on the ratings as the program presents them. You can do it that way. That's the way it's presented. However I find I get a better feel for it by going over the PP's myself. I have my own checklist I like to go thru to get an understanding of a race.

Dave Schwartz has a thread going on his Facebook page about story handicapping. I prefer to do that. Still use the ratings and the portfolios because they save so much time. But get an understanding of the race with your own intuition as well as the numbers.

You won't find much support for this approach among the Wizards as they pretty much just look at numbers and can't be bothered by trainer's intentions or the story of the race. I found that out quick when I clumsily tried to start a discussion about trainer's. I had more to say than ever developed because of the response. That's not a complaint. My cup is empty. I'm always willing to learn what I can from whomever has knowledge. I learned a great deal from Michael Pizzola's DVD's supporting the Wizards forum. He's a great teacher. His teaching is an understated additional value in the product. It's sort of like a correspondence course in professional handicapping. Plus a badass program.

I have BM version 1. I only use it occaisionally now. I'm more apt to use the racing form or the DRP cause I like to write on them. But I'm glad I have the program.

[Dave Schwartz]

...
Another thing to watch for is just relying on the ratings as the program presents them. You can do it that way. That's the way it's presented. However I find I get a better feel for it by going over the PP's myself. I have my own checklist I like to go thru to get an understanding of a race.

Dave Schwartz has a thread going on his Facebook page about story handicapping. I prefer to do that. Still use the ratings and the portfolios because they save so much time. But get an understanding of the race with your own intuition as well as the numbers.
...


That's a well-thought post.

Glad you are enjoying the Talking Handicapping group.

I think that at one time I was a pretty pure "numbers guy," but that changed when I realized that there was no way I could possibly have the sharpest numbers against the whales.

However, I am still a purely "systematic guy," and that makes it difficult for me to connect with the majority of horse players because they are some form of "story handicapper."

When I came up with the term Story Handicapper my definition was a guy who looked at the PPs for each horse and developed that horse's story. That was how I was taught to handicap back in 1978 by "Jimmy and Ken."

Jimmy was an intense trainer handicapper who tracked the winners of perhaps 100 trainers in about 50 categories at each of the tracks he played. His "Trainer Books" were legendary. He carried a number of 3" binders into the racebook every day.

Jimmy's approach was to start at the 10th paceline back...
"So, he ran in a 25k claimer and lost, then came back in a sprint for $32k, then a route at $25k, and then won in a sprint at $20k..."

Now, especially from the conversations in our group, the definition has morphed more towards The Story of the Race. This is more like, "The Early Speed horses will likely be 1,2,3 but the 3 does not have what it takes to win. The class edge horses are 2 & 4..."


What we are really trying to do is to meld the numbers concepts together with the story in such a way that the we can come to a logical, value-based conclusion without killing the player with a lot of labor-intensive calculations.

This conversation is helping me understand what other players do, as opposed to saying, "Here, just do it my way."


Best to everyone,
Dave Schwartz

[Helles]

I purchased the software. The video training that comes with the program is excellent. Michael Pizzolla is very charismatic and an excellent teacher. The software also comes with a 60-day money back guarantee, “no questions asked”.

The ValueCapper screen is logically laid out and provides tons of information. I was very impressed with the information the program gives one to help make decisions. One is of course looking for VALUE. That could be a horse going off at 5/1 or 30/1. YOU decide if a play has value. But, the program does provide target odds one should demand on each horse. I give the program an A+

One of the most impressive features is the ability to filter races using different criteria. For instance, show me races with a lot of early pressure with a lone closer. Or races with Value Investment Potential plus. I.e. VIP+. A horse that we like, that the public shouldn’t and it has extra things going for it such as an Advanced Form Pattern.

This really is a very sophisticated piece of software. I’ve not even scratched the surface of its features.

Having said all this, I returned it. I was betting too many races. I couldn’t get the feel for which horses were really a solid investment. Yes, I hit some juicy prices, but watched many more of my horses finish up the track. And I’m not saying that was ValueCapper’s fault. Like I said, I couldn’t get a feel for the best bets to make.

No questions were asked and I received an immediate and full refund. The Post Time Solutions outfit seemed to me to be well-organized and first-class.

I can recommend giving it a try as I have no doubt there are people that CAN make money using the software. I wasn’t sure if I was one of them so I bailed before the 60 days was up and I would be unable to return it.

[KPMats10]

I purchased the software. The video training that comes with the program is excellent. Michael Pizzolla is very charismatic and an excellent teacher. The software also comes with a 60-day money back guarantee, “no questions asked”.

The ValueCapper screen is logically laid out and provides tons of information. I was very impressed with the information the program gives one to help make decisions. One is of course looking for VALUE. That could be a horse going off at 5/1 or 30/1. YOU decide if a play has value. But, the program does provide target odds one should demand on each horse. I give the program an A+

One of the most impressive features is the ability to filter races using different criteria. For instance, show me races with a lot of early pressure with a lone closer. Or races with Value Investment Potential plus. I.e. VIP+. A horse that we like, that the public shouldn’t and it has extra things going for it such as an Advanced Form Pattern.

This really is a very sophisticated piece of software. I’ve not even scratched the surface of its features.

Having said all this, I returned it. I was betting too many races. I couldn’t get the feel for which horses were really a solid investment. Yes, I hit some juicy prices, but watched many more of my horses finish up the track. And I’m not saying that was ValueCapper’s fault. Like I said, I couldn’t get a feel for the best bets to make.

No questions were asked and I received an immediate and full refund. The Post Time Solutions outfit seemed to me to be well-organized and first-class.

I can recommend giving it a try as I have no doubt there are people that CAN make money using the software. I wasn’t sure if I was one of them so I bailed before the 60 days was up and I would be unable to return it.

Curious as to what the price was. I don't feel like sitting through a four video sales pitch to find out.

[FakeNameChanged]

Curious as to what the price was. I don't feel like sitting through a four video sales pitch to find out.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140163&page=3

On a previous thread, it was quoted as 1797.00 for newbies and around 1300 if you already owned black magic. See post #44 in above link.

[SandyW]

Curious as to what the price was. I don't feel like sitting through a four video sales pitch to find out.

The four video's are much more informative than sale pitch. I never bought any of his products, but have learned and used a lot of Pizzolla's info and thoughts to make me a winning handicapper.
The man loves what he does and never ever presses you to buy anything.

[JohnA]

Michael Pizzolla's sales videos give you the price of the ValueCapper software package.
He obliquely adds that you can have a monthly low price for unlimited downloads if you join his Wizards Forum. BUT - He doesn't say what either item costs.
His concepts look interesting and $1,797.00 for the software is doable.
Spending $1,797.00 without knowing the cost to download the data to use the software is not doable.


Can anybody tell me what the Wizard Forum + Monthly Unlimited Data costs?

[Brisk Urging]

Michael Pizzolla's sales videos give you the price of the ValueCapper software package.
He obliquely adds that you can have a monthly low price for unlimited downloads if you join his Wizards Forum. BUT - He doesn't say what either item costs.
His concepts look interesting and $1,797.00 for the software is doable.
Spending $1,797.00 without knowing the cost to download the data to use the software is not doable.


Can anybody tell me what the Wizard Forum + Monthly Unlimited Data costs?
Pretty sure $129

[Speed Figure]

$124!

[JohnA]

Thanks "Brisk Urging" and "Speed Figures" for your replies.

Those numbers are acceptable - not a problem for me.
I'm cautious about "pulling the trigger" for two reasons and it's not the money for the data or the program.
#1.) I don't like the fact that he doesn't lay out all the costs up front. That's not acceptable and implies deception.
#2.) Over the space of a couple of weeks I've used the contact function on their site to twice ask the same question I posted here. I received no answer. I tried again yesterday. We'll see what happens.
If I don't get an answer from them, I'll assume it's a schlock operation not worthy of my confidence or my money.

[mhaney0423]

Thanks "Brisk Urging" and "Speed Figures" for your replies.

Those numbers are acceptable - not a problem for me.
I'm cautious about "pulling the trigger" for two reasons and it's not the money for the data or the program.
#1.) I don't like the fact that he doesn't lay out all the costs up front. That's not acceptable and implies deception.
#2.) Over the space of a couple of weeks I've used the contact function on their site to twice ask the same question I posted here. I received no answer. I tried again yesterday. We'll see what happens.
If I don't get an answer from them, I'll assume it's a schlock operation not worthy of my confidence or my money.

I assure you it is 100% legit, Michael responds personally most of the time within a few hours. Not sure what email you are writing to.

He laid out all the costs for me right up front, even told me not to purchase Black Magic because at the time Valuecapper was to be released in 6 months and he suggested I wait. I have never dealt with a better guy than Michael Pizzolla.

[JohnA]

I'm curious to see if they'll answer my third inquiry using the "contact" tab on their "Post Time Solutions" website. That site appears to be their home page for all their products.
After waiting a few days, I'll try emailing him personally to ask my questions and alert him to the fact that he could be losing potential sales with a bad "contact" option.

[BroadwayJoe]

Thanks "Brisk Urging" and "Speed Figures" for your replies.

Those numbers are acceptable - not a problem for me.
I'm cautious about "pulling the trigger" for two reasons and it's not the money for the data or the program.
#1.) I don't like the fact that he doesn't lay out all the costs up front. That's not acceptable and implies deception.
#2.) Over the space of a couple of weeks I've used the contact function on their site to twice ask the same question I posted here. I received no answer. I tried again yesterday. We'll see what happens.
If I don't get an answer from them, I'll assume it's a schlock operation not worthy of my confidence or my money.

John , can I ask you how much handicapping experience you have?

[Gerard02]

Mike has responded to my emails, rather quickly. Especially, the other day when the program kept telling me my license was expired and when I renewed, it still told me I was expired. Right after he responded, my program was back in action. As far as laying out the costs. I would not expect anyone to lay out the cost of the program. My friend Trezz, has been telling me about this prgram for two years. It took me thst long to save up for it. Now, I got it and I scored big time. I’ve had some set backs, as I thought the wins I scored were it. You learn there are ups and downs. Overall, I’ve made more of a profit than with my own handicapping.

[BroadwayJoe]

Mike has responded to my emails, rather quickly. Especially, the other day when the program kept telling me my license was expired and when I renewed, it still told me I was expired. Right after he responded, my program was back in action. As far as laying out the costs. I would not expect anyone to lay out the cost of the program. My friend Trezz, has been telling me about this program for two years. It took me that long to save up for it. Now, I got it and I scored big time. I’ve had some set backs, as I thought the wins I scored were it. You learn there are ups and downs. Overall, I’ve made more of a profit than with my own handicapping.

With that amount to lay out and no guarantee is a tough pill to swallow...

I don't understand why not because he has the ability to shut it down like you've experienced...

[mhaney0423]

With that amount to lay out and no guarantee is a tough pill to swallow...

I don't understand why not because he has the ability to shut it down like you've experienced...

Guarantee of what Mike? Its a tool, your success will depend on how you use the tool. In my humble opinion, if you are uncomfortable with the price to start with, then you have no business buying it. I think most of us that did spend the money are pretty happy with the software.

[BroadwayJoe]

Guarantee of what Mike? Its a tool, your success will depend on how you use the tool. In my humble opinion, if you are uncomfortable with the price to start with, then you have no business buying it. I think most of us that did spend the money are pretty happy with the software.

I hear you Matt....that is why I asked John about his experience.....

To spend money like that and not be experienced is a bad combo...

[PaceAdvantage]

In my humble opinion, if you are uncomfortable with the price to start with, then you have no business buying it.Preach it brutha!

agree 1000%

[chrisl]

Mike was very honest with me about the program. He asked me what type of player I was. I told him weekend warrior at best. He told me that program would probably not be a good fit. I respect him for that. This was quite a while ago.

[BroadwayJoe]

Mike was very honest with me about the program. He asked me what type of player I was. I told him weekend warrior at best. He told me that program would probably not be a good fit. I respect him for that. This was quite a while ago.

Preach it brutha!

agree 1000%


Honesty is not a trate in any business

[JohnA]

"how much handicapping experience you have?"

Too much - 62 years in fact.
I left law school 50 years ago to go to Pimlico full time. (yeah, I was an idiot.) I was a "a bad day at the track is better than a good day at work" guy. In my younger days, I had a ten year stretch where I spent more time in Vegas betting horses off track than working as an executive on the East Coast. I've long since retired
A couple of years ago I threw in the towel in racing when I saw that the game had been destroyed by the rebate computer people. They can over bet a horse and make up for the "negative expectation odds" with the rebate. When you finally find something that looks logical, it gets aggravating watching the horse walk to the gate at 7-1 and finish at 3-1 or less.

Anyway, looking at Pizzolla's videos and commentary, it appears that he gives a method to eliminate the races that are truly unbeatable because of "obvious horses" or chaos unkowns. That saves a great deal of your time and allows you to consider the races where you might have a chance of success.
Even after throwing in the towel, I still miss the game and am considering using his software a tool. I do understand it's not a "black box." You have to figure out how to make it work. If it was a "black box" that really worked, he wouldn't sell it. He'd use it.

[BroadwayJoe]

"how much handicapping experience you have?"

Too much - 62 years in fact.
I left law school 50 years ago to go to Pimlico full time. (yeah, I was an idiot.) I was a "a bad day at the track is better than a good day at work" guy. In my younger days, I had a ten year stretch where I spent more time in Vegas betting horses off track than working as an executive on the East Coast. I've long since retired
A couple of years ago I threw in the towel in racing when I saw that the game had been destroyed by the rebate computer people. They can over bet a horse and make up for the "negative expectation odds" with the rebate. When you finally find something that looks logical, it gets aggravating watching the horse walk to the gate at 7-1 and finish at 3-1 or less.

Anyway, looking at Pizzolla's videos and commentary, it appears that he gives a method to eliminate the races that are truly unbeatable because of "obvious horses" or chaos unkowns. That saves a great deal of your time and allows you to consider the races where you might have a chance of success.
Even after throwing in the towel, I still miss the game and am considering using his software a tool. I do understand it's not a "black box." You have to figure out how to make it work. If it was a "black box" that really worked, he wouldn't sell it. He'd use it.

Thanks for the response John....

So your an old fart like me (65) and have enjoyed racing for over 40 years....
My take is that I just play for entertainment....a $2-5 bettor will not get me in trouble. I did own many software along the way and have better myself with each....Each one has its own quirts and ways of playing ..

I never had VC but heres why I wouldn't ....

#1 Price ....Way too much for entertainment purposes
Yes, you just might get profitable but odds are against you over time

#2 Limited avenues in handicapping....
VC's best preached approach is "selected plays"
Actually you can do that with any software by developing steps

#3 No data mining for the enthusiasts...

#4 No setting up of Spot Plays,Angles and testing theories (researching)
Say you have a play involving Stretch Outs
You have to handicap every race cards manually to find it

#5 Wizards Forum closed to non members....this is a way for outsiders to determine if they should go VC's way

I might be wrong with these but this is what I see from what I've read
I'm sure Matt will chime in here :)

This is where I am parked at these days and why...

HTR

#1 Software is free with Monthly Subscription ...@$119 for over 20 years

#2 Various Programs to choose from

#3 Exports galore on mostly everything in HTR...Can be used in Excel and Access with a template that was made for HTR data

#4 Research , Development of your angles and plays that you can set up and run thru every race day to find them at a touch of the button

#5 Forum is wide open to judge, read, ask questions to community

Best yet is that Ken updates all his programs 2 times a year with input , suggestions , from community and his own ideas.....The programs I had was built in past and there was very little added to them over the years.

There even is a DEMO to download for free on website

Any questions comments ...just ask

[BroadwayJoe]

Heres a Play that I've created ....

Now tell me ...Who in Hell would even look at Lethbridge Rmtc

[mhaney0423]

I never had VC but heres why I wouldn't ....

#1 Price ....Way too much for entertainment purposes
Yes, you just might get profitable but odds are against you over time
Agreed, if you are just a casual player, Valuecapper is probably not for you

#2 Limited avenues in handicapping....
VC's best preached approach is "selected plays"
Actually you can do that with any software by developing steps

Valuecappers approach is NOT selected plays, it is completely based upon on betting overlays and that depends on an individual's comfort level with making a play or passing a race. I do not bet the same races Michael Pizzolla bets every time and vice versa.

#3 No data mining for the enthusiasts...
This is the beauty of Valuecapper.....No information overload

#4 No setting up of Spot Plays,Angles and testing theories (researching)
Say you have a play involving Stretch Outs
You have to handicap every race cards manually to find it
Again, not quite true, there are literally dozens of race "portfolios" based upon certain criteria of a race or race entrants. Spot plays dont usually work so well because of the fact that every race is different.

#5 Wizards Forum closed to non members....this is a way for outsiders to determine if they should go VC's way
True but since this is a paid program, with no demo version, it doesnt make much sense to open the forum to folks that dont have the program. What is discussed on the wizards forum would seem like Latin to folks who do not have Valuecapper.

I might be wrong with these but this is what I see from what I've read
I'm sure Matt will chime in here

This is where I am parked at these days and why...

HTR

#1 Software is free with Monthly Subscription ...@$119 for over 20 years Yep and HTR is a very very good software

#2 Various Programs to choose from
Too many IMHO, I have other things still to do with my life, work, family, chores, friends, I have no time to data mine and switch between screens and programs.


#3 Exports galore on mostly everything in HTR...Can be used in Excel and Access with a template that was made for HTR data
Agree

#4 Research , Development of your angles and plays that you can set up and run thru every race day to find them at a touch of the button
If you have the time and are into that sort of thing YES

#5 Forum is wide open to judge, read, ask questions to community YES

Best yet is that Ken updates all his programs 2 times a year with input , suggestions , from community and his own ideas.....The programs I had was built in past and there was very little added to them over the years.
Valuecapper is also updated several times a year and pars are updated yearly, Michael will also consider adding in things the community asks for.

There even is a DEMO to download for free on website

All in all both of these programs are great choices, for me, Valuecapper wins for two reasons. #1) As Mike knows, the pp's as displayed in HTR (DOS Format basically) are unreadable to me and I just cant get around that fact, it drove me nuts.
#2) Information overload, I dont have enough time to even handicap races in my day, more or less data mine and create access queries, databases, etc.

But I will definitely say, HTR would be my choice of the programs Ive used if I did not have Valuecapper. Equisim would be a close third.

Best,

Matt

[BroadwayJoe]

Thank you my good lad.......

Yes, life does get in the way for many but for people that do have the time...

Overload is a good thing :jump:

there are many roads to the promised land ..determine the best one

anytime you or someone whats a race for us/me to handicap..

Please do

Mike

[JohnA]

I had used that service for years and was using it when I threw in the towel.
It was always first rate and Ken Massa's help was great.

I was never into data mining with the Access Data Base program. The Robot had great functionality but you get into problems of "curve fitting." It's the concept that "if you torture data points long enough, they'll tell you anything."

Since you're a HTR subscriber, you know what we're dealing with. Betting every horse over a year, Massa's "all burger", should result in a loss of around 18% - the take. In reality, the loss is 25%. The extra 7% is the "rebate player tax." The other problem is that the "dumb money" has gone to lotteries and sports betting. You're competing against knowledgeable people and they don't miss much. F1 used to be a killer until these players figured it out, bet it, and took away the wager value.

Bottom Line: If looking for "logical" horses doesn't work anymore, why not try a different approach? Hence, my interest in Pizzolla's program.

P.S. Saw the K1 long shot at Lethbridge. The problem there is that the WPS pools on the race only totaled $4,192.00. Even a $20 bet could lower the win odds there. There's always a kicker in this game.

[BroadwayJoe]

I had used that service for years and was using it when I threw in the towel.
It was always first rate and Ken Massa's help was great.

I was never into data mining with the Access Data Base program. The Robot had great functionality but you get into problems of "curve fitting." It's the concept that "if you torture data points long enough, they'll tell you anything."

Since you're a HTR subscriber, you know what we're dealing with. Betting every horse over a year, Massa's "all burger", should result in a loss of around 18% - the take. In reality, the loss is 25%. The extra 7% is the "rebate player tax." The other problem is that the "dumb money" has gone to lotteries and sports betting. You're competing against knowledgeable people and they don't miss much. F1 used to be a killer until these players figured it out, bet it, and took away the wager value.

Bottom Line: If looking for "logical" horses doesn't work anymore, why not try a different approach? Hence, my interest in Pizzolla's program.

P.S. Saw the K1 long shot at Lethbridge. The problem there is that the WPS pools on the race only totaled $4,192.00. Even a $20 bet could lower the win odds there. There's always a kicker in this game.

Thx John......You absolutely hit it on the head !!

No-one is going to be a winner better power figures ...like HTR K Rating
no matter which way you go about it your not getting better than the .82-.86 ROI on the top choice that it gives you....that is why its best to go into it via situation handicapping which VC is geared to with Michael P's teachings.....

Like I've said before $1800 is a tough pill to swallow to find out that you could have done the same with another software for a lot less.
There is NO software that is the best ....and there should not be a price tag that high to pay for it....

The Robot is a good tool but I use Excel and its mathematical prowess to enhance my factors selections ....it gives a more scientific approach to things. I have produced a few spot plays using back data and tested them going forward ...like the one above......with good results...

I think you know this..... at the yearly NHC Contest there are 10-15 HTR users in it.....It is/has been written about it in many of Ken's HTR Newsletters over the years

Must be doing something right

Mike

[Speed Figure]

Thx John......You absolutely hit it on the head !!

No-one is going to be a winner better power figures ...like HTR K Rating
no matter which way you go about it your not getting better than the .82-.86 ROI on the top choice that it gives you....that is why its best to go into it via situation handicapping which VC is geared to with Michael P's teachings.....

Like I've said before $1800 is a tough pill to swallow to find out that you could have done the same with another software for a lot less.
There is NO software that is the best ....and there should not be a price tag that high to pay for it....

The Robot is a good tool but I use Excel and its mathematical prowess to enhance my factors selections ....it gives a more scientific approach to things. I have produced a few spot plays using back data and tested them going forward ...like the one above......with good results...

I think you know this..... at the yearly NHC Contest there are 10-15 HTR users in it.....It is/has been written about it in many of Ken's HTR Newsletters over the years

Must be doing something right

MikeYou should also know at the NHC some Contest winner's have been Black Magic/Value Capper users also! From what I know Michael is not a programmer! He has hired MR.X to do the programming and that costs money! Ken does all the programming himself so there's no outside costs for that. The software comes with months of data so you wouldn’t even need to purchase the unlimited data plan. You could simply use the data that comes with the software for your evaluation. He says he offers a 60 day money back guarantee if you don't like it!

[BroadwayJoe]

You should also know at the NHC some Contest winner's have been Black Magic/Value Capper users also! From what I know Michael is not a programmer! He has hired MR.X to do the programming and that costs money! Ken does all the programming himself so there's no outside costs for that. The software comes with months of data so you wouldn’t even need to purchase the unlimited data plan. You could simply use the data that comes with the software for your evaluation. He says he offers a 60 day money back guarantee if you don't like it!

thx....that does help

[BroadwayJoe]

thx....that does help

So John....

If you do decide to try VC.....

1...Make sure of the return policy and if there's any re-stock fee

2...Make sure you have plenty of time to watch ALL the videos

3..Get into forum and see hows the traffic...in my experience people just answer basic questions ..NOT revealing any secrets is the norm

2 months is a very short time to watch and apply

in my experience 3-6 months is the norm for the learning process like this

Keep us up to date

Mike

[lefty359]

With that amount to lay out and no guarantee is a tough pill to swallow...

I don't understand why not because he has the ability to shut it down like you've experienced...


If you send it back within 30 days Michael will refund your money

[BroadwayJoe]

If you send it back within 30 days Michael will refund your money


thx left


30 or 60 days..... its still tough to evaluate

[wiretowire68]

or looking at purchasing this software? What would you be willing to pay. I do own it and might be looking to sell.

[BroadwayJoe]

or looking at purchasing this software? What would you be willing to pay. I do own it and might be looking to sell.

Would you like to tell us why your selling it?


thx

[PaceAdvantage]

Would you like to tell us why your selling it?


thxThe same reason a divorced person can be despised by their ex but be worshipped as a soulmate by their new love? :lol:

For some, it just doesn't work anymore...for whatever reason. It isn't always the divorced person's fault.

[BroadwayJoe]

The same reason a divorced person can be despised by their ex but be worshipped as a soulmate by their new love? :lol:

For some, it just doesn't work anymore...for whatever reason. It isn't always the divorced person's fault.

Just curious on how hard he tried to make it work..

Like does he cheat and play races that he shouldn't

Did he go thru ALL the videos

Did he look for help from MP

Did he give it a fair shake....

just a few

[headhawg]

Read his other posts, Mike, and then consider the source.

[BroadwayJoe]

Read his other posts, Mike, and then consider the source.

ok ...different threads ....thx Brian

[BroadwayJoe]

O...I C now.....print too small


:lol:


I hope he can his money back

[PaceAdvantage]

Read his other posts, Mike, and then consider the source.I was trying my best to be nice. BELIEVE ME...I thought about typing something completely different.

[mhaney0423]

Just curious on how hard he tried to make it work..

Like does he cheat and play races that he shouldn't

Did he go thru ALL the videos

Did he look for help from MP

Did he give it a fair shake....

just a few

Mike, this.software simply isn't for everyone. There are no "rules" to using Valuecapper and Michael Pizzolla actively discourages rules. It is simply a tool and one vould probably do just about as well with any tool, including HTR, Dave Schwartz' software or any software for that matter. For me, the price tag of it forced me to kind of stick with it when I hit some proverbial walls rather than jumping to the next great free software.

What Pizzolla does preach, that I have not necessarily seen anywhere else is to demand value and wait for your price. It is not ever about picking winners, it's about making money.

I will say that if you are not disciplined, you can lose.money hand over fist with Valuecapper, simply because you are bettingLongshot. You have to acquire kind of a feel for which ones deserve a bet and which ones dont......I'm still working on that as I tend to bet too.many races still, but I have at least managed a positive ROI for the last 4 years.

[BroadwayJoe]

Mike, this.software simply isn't for everyone. There are no "rules" to using Valuecapper and Michael Pizzolla actively discourages rules. It is simply a tool and one vould probably do just about as well with any tool, including HTR, Dave Schwartz' software or any software for that matter. For me, the price tag of it forced me to kind of stick with it when I hit some proverbial walls rather than jumping to the next great free software.

What Pizzolla does preach, that I have not necessarily seen anywhere else is to demand value and wait for your price. It is not ever about picking winners, it's about making money.

I will say that if you are not disciplined, you can lose.money hand over fist with Valuecapper, simply because you are bettingLongshot. You have to acquire kind of a feel for which ones deserve a bet and which ones dont......I'm still working on that as I tend to bet too.many races still, but I have at least managed a positive ROI for the last 4 years.

I commend you Matt on this....not easy to do these days...

Plus your a good guy and deserves it!!!


Mike

[wiretowire68]

Why? Well for one, I said it before. It takes alot of the work out of doing your own work and for me personally part of the fun of from my perspective, doing the handicapping and using your own gut feeling is still the best feeling I get from playing the game. The game despite what people think being the same does keep evolving, the training patterns have changed in terms of longer layoffs, and but it basically comes down to doing it myself. Michael is one of the nicest men I have had the pleasure to listen to in terms of his philosophy, his passion and his willingness to always answer and discuss. Some people during these times also have money problems that have nothing to do with horse racing. It is not cheap and although players have had sucess using it in tournament player, for me sometimes, it can confuse your decision process. Maybe it is a point of being stubborn, or maybe I have learned to do things my own way while I have learned from the pioneers. Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

[BroadwayJoe]

Why? Well for one, I said it before. It takes alot of the work out of doing your own work and for me personally part of the fun of from my perspective, doing the handicapping and using your own gut feeling is still the best feeling I get from playing the game. The game despite what people think being the same does keep evolving, the training patterns have changed in terms of longer layoffs, and but it basically comes down to doing it myself. Michael is one of the nicest men I have had the pleasure to listen to in terms of his philosophy, his passion and his willingness to always answer and discuss. Some people during these times also have money problems that have nothing to do with horse racing. It is not cheap and although players have had sucess using it in tournament player, for me sometimes, it can confuse your decision process. Maybe it is a point of being stubborn, or maybe I have learned to do things my own way while I have learned from the pioneers. Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

I totally get it what your trying to accomplish....

Since you started with Google Sheets and into Alldata then to other projects

I would have gone that route too.....

But I don't understand going to VC ...many posts on here could have given you

some sort of how the program plays and it wasn't what you wanted....

A better choice would have been JCapper for the program and the data files

which you could have used in many others , including Sheets and Alldata

I hope you can get your money back if you do bail out...

Mike

[mikeb]

[QUOTE=mhaney0423;2834554] Michael responds personally most of the time within a few hours. Not sure what email you are writing to.

what is the right address or phone number?
been trying to get in touch by phone and email with no response.
thanks
mikeb

[wiretowire68]

I have not decided to bail, Using google sheets and Allways is my way of expanding my own knowledge...The man is sucessful and I can still keep it and use it as a tool but I using other's knowledge and numbers and developing my own is just as rewarding. I have started to teach myself how to program and come up with #s and test. It truly is a very rewarding particularly when you do the work and pick the right horse...I have no idea what Valuecapper did yesterday in terms of Parx race # 9 but I did all the work and my gut said the # 3 and he won the race at 6-1...you know morning line is 8-1..Is it an overlay..maybe maybe not...but what I have done is too cover all the bases with the pioneers and use things like post position %s variants etc. I wanted to understand how the pioneers came up with these numbers in order to be sucessful and hope somehow that it works for me. It is a hell of a lot of work. I just do not want to spit it out but like Dave Scwartz idea of being able to do the work on the computer quick enough and still be able to take that gut feeling right up to post, that is the challenge.

[mhaney0423]

[QUOTE=mhaney0423;2834554] Michael responds personally most of the time within a few hours. Not sure what email you are writing to.

what is the right address or phone number?
been trying to get in touch by phone and email with no response.
thanks
mikeb

Michael@posttimedaily.com

[wiretowire68]

The Jets are going to be really good, they finally decided to let someone stick around and let him build a team, the coach is an excellent football guy.

[mhaney0423]

I have not decided to bail, Using google sheets and Allways is my way of expanding my own knowledge...The man is sucessful and I can still keep it and use it as a tool but I using other's knowledge and numbers and developing my own is just as rewarding. I have started to teach myself how to program and come up with #s and test. It truly is a very rewarding particularly when you do the work and pick the right horse...I have no idea what Valuecapper did yesterday in terms of Parx race # 9 but I did all the work and my gut said the # 3 and he won the race at 6-1...you know morning line is 8-1..Is it an overlay..maybe maybe not...but what I have done is too cover all the bases with the pioneers and use things like post position %s variants etc. I wanted to understand how the pioneers came up with these numbers in order to be sucessful and hope somehow that it works for me. It is a hell of a lot of work. I just do not want to spit it out but like Dave Scwartz idea of being able to do the work on the computer quick enough and still be able to take that gut feeling right up to post, that is the challenge.

LOL, you seem to think the same as Valuecapper, nice job!!

[wiretowire68]

Hey Dave around what month will your 2023 Pars be ready?

[mikeb]

thanks matt

[BroadwayJoe]

LOL, you seem to think the same as Valuecapper, nice job!!

Hey Matt....

You wouldn't have bet that 3 unless he was 15-1 Correct?

[wiretowire68]

That is what Valuecapper is suppose to do? that is where the discipline comes in?????? If you do not think 15$ in change is a good investment and when you look at the software, unless your an all type of person in your exotics, you would not catch this because it is not 15-1 and the 1 horse is under the Arc ...so it is not considered valuecapping.

[BroadwayJoe]

That is what Valuecapper is suppose to do? that is where the discipline comes in?????? If you do not think 15$ in change is a good investment and when you look at the software, unless your an all type of person in your exotics, you would not catch this because it is not 15-1 and the 1 horse is under the Arc ...so it is not considered valuecapping.

I thought so

:ThmbUp:


I would be steaming....LOL

[mhaney0423]

Hey Matt....

You wouldn't have bet that 3 unless he was 15-1 Correct?

13-1 is the software's suggestion, I sometimes will go below that if there is a good reason in my opinion. In this case, I would not have bet this horse to win in a 7 horse arc at less than the 13-1.

If I'm watching live I may have bet a :3::5:/:1::2::3::4::5::7::8: exacta and probably wouldve reversed it also :1::2::3::4::5::7::8:/:3::5: which wouldve been a $24 investment. I sometimes will try to catch a big exacta in these arc 6 and arc 7 races by using the top two choices on the oddsline (provided they are both >5-1 coupled with all of the exotic pattern horses (ExP)

This has worked well for me this year as I am actually in the red on my win bets this year but well in the black for my exactas and trifectas, only issue is, I can only bet these if Im watching the board, which is rare.

At any rate, I did not bet this race so its all hypothetical, but obviously the thought and the hope would have been to get the second on the line 5 (at 33-1) in the exacta preferrably with the 3 in which case Id have the $1 exacta 2x.
It wouldnt have gone as planned but I would have gotten a $151.90 consolation prize.

[mhaney0423]

I thought so

:ThmbUp:


I would be steaming....LOL

I dont start steaming anymore at all, well maybe a little when my 15-1 goes off at 14-1 and wins like a champ, and maybe even more so when my 20-1 horse goes off at 15-1 when the gate opens and then goes up to 25-1 on the turn and wins for fun... life is too short, its all in fun

[BroadwayJoe]

thxs Matt ..always appreciate your responses

;)


Parx 9TH today


if you can toss the fav #6...

liking the 4 & 8

[mhaney0423]

thxs Matt ..always appreciate your responses

;)


Parx 9TH today


if you can toss the fav #6...

liking the 4 & 8

LOL, funny as hell, no sooner do I mention not getting steamed, and it happens.......check out Delaware 7th. I had the 7 horse conditionally bet at 10-1, of course it wins at 12-1 and didnt trigger, usually means price went up after the gate opened

[mhaney0423]

thxs Matt ..always appreciate your responses

;)


Parx 9TH today


if you can toss the fav #6...

liking the 4 & 8

Not bettable from a win standpoint....another ARC 7
:11: is top choice but need 16-1 to bet to win
:8: is second but need 19-1 to bet to win

for fun I will try this

1$ exacta :8::11:/:3::6::7::8::11: and

1$ exacta :3::6::7::8::11:/:8::11:

[BroadwayJoe]

LOL, funny as hell, no sooner do I mention not getting steamed, and it happens.......check out Delaware 7th. I had the 7 horse conditionally bet at 10-1, of course it wins at 12-1 and didnt trigger, usually means price went up after the gate opened

LOL


How do you think I feel......I missed it

[BroadwayJoe]

Not bettable from a win standpoint....another ARC 7
:11: is top choice but need 16-1 to bet to win
:8: is second but need 19-1 to bet to win

for fun I will try this

1$ exacta :8::11:/:3::6::7::8::11: and

1$ exacta :3::6::7::8::11:/:8::11:

:ThmbUp:

hope 8 wins

[mhaney0423]

LOL


How do you think I feel......I missed it

Thats Delta Downs Mike not Delaware

[BroadwayJoe]

Thats Delta Downs Mike not Delaware

opps....

just looked....I had him 5th


but the #1 rank was the 5 ....with his declining numbers it was a race to look elsewhere

Sorry you missed it....

I'm sure there were times that "conditional bets " helped.....

[mhaney0423]

opps....

just looked....I had him 5th


but the #1 rank was the 5 ....with his declining numbers it was a race to look elsewhere

Sorry you missed it....

I'm sure there were times that "conditional bets " helped.....

Not sure they helped, did get 7/2 and 3-1 winners that I had conditionally bet at 6-1 a lot of times, but since those are underlays, not sure how much it "helped" the bottom line.

[BroadwayJoe]

thxs Matt ..always appreciate your responses

;)


Parx 9TH today


if you can toss the fav #6...

liking the 4 & 8

The 4 wins at 4-1


This is how I get value .....

Poke a hole in the favorite and the others are under bet.....

Did VC have the 4 at 10-1 or worse....

Why would it be so high if a horse has a legit chance ???

[mhaney0423]

The 4 wins at 4-1


This is how I get value .....

Poke a hole in the favorite and the others are under bet.....

Did VC have the 4 at 10-1 or worse....

Why would it be so high if a horse has a legit chance ???

50-1 below the arc at the very bottom

[BroadwayJoe]

50-1 below the arc at the very bottom

Damn....and I only got 4-1

I'll take it :kiss:

thx Matt enjoy your day

[Hanger]

Preach it brutha!

agree 1000%

For the record- Mike P says exactly this too.....if the price scares you- it isn't for you.

[BroadwayJoe]

For the record- Mike P says exactly this too.....if the price scares you- it isn't for you.

That price should scare everybody unless you have a friend to show you what it does in detail....

even if you watch his rant videos ....how many winners does he get....???

Not that many....and he does pick alternative races too..so he is handicapping using the software...and still pulling blanks


For all others to just jump in without knowing what your getting is.......... insane

:rant:

[PaceAdvantage]

That price should scare everybody unless you have a friend to show you what it does in detail....

even if you watch his rant videos ....how many winners does he get....???

Not that many....and he does pick alternative races too..so he is handicapping using the software...and still pulling blanks


For all others to just jump in without knowing what your getting is insane...

:rant:if his software were junk, you'd have heard about it by now...it's been around forever

Pricey, yes...we've heard that a lot...junk? Don't recall many people claiming that.

Maybe you can find another windmill

[mhaney0423]

That price should scare everybody unless you have a friend to show you what it does in detail....

even if you watch his rant videos ....how many winners does he get....???

Not that many....and he does pick alternative races too..so he is handicapping using the software...and still pulling blanks


For all others to just jump in without knowing what your getting is.......... insane

:rant:

Mike,

You are forgetting he posts those rant videos on like a Wed or a Thurs before a big Saturday race. He has no clue what the weather or the scratches will do to the race. In most cases, with big Stakes races there just isn't that many obvious value opportunities. He is also only posting at most like the Derby and maybe 3 or 4 alternative races....my hit rate with Valuecapper win bets fluctuates between about 9-13% give or take a point.....so I'm generally gonna have to give you 10 races before you see a winner. Maybe MP is much better than me but I would almost guarantee he's not hitting too much higher rate picking horses out of a race 3 days prior with only half of the relevant info to go on.

Where VC shines is while you are watching the board, opportunities present themselves all the time, often when we least expect them. I bet races all the time watching the board that I wouldn't have looked at for more than about 2 seconds three days prior to the race.

We've been through this before and I even went so far as to show you what could be done, and even then I was posting all my picks at like 11am EST without scratches.

[Hanger]

if his software were junk, you'd have heard about it by now...it's been around forever

Pricey, yes...we've heard that a lot...junk? Don't recall many people claiming that.

Maybe you can find another windmill

Very good point- I think those that would call it junk, had small bankrolls and couldnt sustain the ValueCapping approach because of bankroll size or too aggressive betting.

The software itself, does what it claims to do....as a TOOL- that is all.

[BroadwayJoe]

if his software were junk, you'd have heard about it by now...it's been around forever

Pricey, yes...we've heard that a lot...junk? Don't recall many people claiming that.

Maybe you can find another windmill

Sure.....I could comment but you'll probably ban me again...

[PaceAdvantage]

Sure.....I could comment but you'll probably ban me again...You never owned it, so why would I listen to you about it?

[BroadwayJoe]

Mike,

You are forgetting he posts those rant videos on like a Wed or a Thurs before a big Saturday race. He has no clue what the weather or the scratches will do to the race. In most cases, with big Stakes races there just isn't that many obvious value opportunities. He is also only posting at most like the Derby and maybe 3 or 4 alternative races....my hit rate with Valuecapper win bets fluctuates between about 9-13% give or take a point.....so I'm generally gonna have to give you 10 races before you see a winner. Maybe MP is much better than me but I would almost guarantee he's not hitting too much higher rate picking horses out of a race 3 days prior with only half of the relevant info to go on.

Where VC shines is while you are watching the board, opportunities present themselves all the time, often when we least expect them. I bet races all the time watching the board that I wouldn't have looked at for more than about 2 seconds three days prior to the race.

We've been through this before and I even went so far as to show you what could be done, and even then I was posting all my picks at like 11am EST without scratches.

Matt ....your correct..........yov've made it work for you with the experiecnce that you have....

I target people that I feel are not aware what they are getting into....

Thus me asking their handicapping experience....

Like this guy Gerard....Once I found the extent of his experience then I was satisfied that he knew what he was doing and wished him well..

There are some that come on not knowing the ass from the head and are willing to pluck $1800 for that magic wand to get winners ..
Those are the ones that I try to educate ....

For me you already know what I don"t like or is not available...

Later

[mhaney0423]

Matt ....your correct..........yov've made it work for you with the experiecnce that you have....

I target people that I feel are not aware what they are getting into....

Thus me asking their handicapping experience....

Like this guy Gerard....Once I found the extent of his experience then I was satisfied that he knew what he was doing and wished him well..

There are some that come on not knowing the ass from the head and are willing to pluck $1800 for that magic wand to get winners ..
Those are the ones that I try to educate ....

For me you already know what I don"t like or is not available...

Later

On this much we agree Mike, even Michael Pizzolla himself will tell people this. If you are not an everyday player willing to look at multiple tracks. Valuecapper probably isn't the software for you. It's a full time commitment and a labor of love to acquire the skill to use it properly, but once you do, it can be quite profitable and stress free.

[BroadwayJoe]

On this much we agree Mike, even Michael Pizzolla himself will tell people this. If you are not an everyday player willing to look at multiple tracks. Valuecapper probably isn't the software for you. It's a full time commitment and a labor of love to acquire the skill to use it properly, but once you do, it can be quite profitable and stress free.

thxs for that sales pitch......

:D

[PaceAdvantage]

Matt ....your correct..........yov've made it work for you with the experiecnce that you have....

I target people that I feel are not aware what they are getting into....

Thus me asking their handicapping experience....

Like this guy Gerard....Once I found the extent of his experience then I was satisfied that he knew what he was doing and wished him well..

There are some that come on not knowing the ass from the head and are willing to pluck $1800 for that magic wand to get winners ..
Those are the ones that I try to educate ....

For me you already know what I don"t like or is not available...

LaterSo you're like the guardian angel of PA software threads.

You fail with tools others succeed with and yet feel qualified to tell someone else to avoid said tools...nice!

[BroadwayJoe]

So you're like the guardian angel of PA software threads.

You fail with tools others succeed with and yet feel qualified to tell someone else to avoid said tools...nice!

I don't "tell" ..I just educate

thats it on this....no need to jab

[mhaney0423]

Matt ....your correct..........yov've made it work for you with the experiecnce that you have....

I target people that I feel are not aware what they are getting into....

Thus me asking their handicapping experience....

Like this guy Gerard....Once I found the extent of his experience then I was satisfied that he knew what he was doing and wished him well..

There are some that come on not knowing the ass from the head and are willing to pluck $1800 for that magic wand to get winners ..
Those are the ones that I try to educate ....

For me you already know what I don"t like or is not available...

Later

Actually, those are the guys that do well with Valuecapper right off the bat, simply because they don't question the horses the software "picks" or better said suggests have value investment potential. I still struggle with this sometimes....old habit die hard I guess

[BroadwayJoe]

Actually, those are the guys that do well with Valuecapper right off the bat, simply because they don't question the horses the software "picks" or better said suggests have value investment potential. I still struggle with this sometimes....old habit die hard I guess

So with limited experience...you think a month or 2 is enough to learn it the way its intended?

[mhaney0423]

So with limited experience...you think a month or 2 is enough to learn it the way its intended?

Sure, if you want to spend the time......you don't have to watch every video to use the software as "intended". Basically you are trying to bet horses the software likes that the public should NOT. Preferably with extras (form patterns, etc) and Preferably with anti value above them if they are lower on the line.

The problems come when you question the numbers, or won't bet a good value horse because say its 1-23 or it has a 2% winning jockey on it, or because it's running a route.in it's 20th career start never having routed before.....or because it has only won on turf and is on dirt today.....basic things you just don't normally do in traditional handicapping without good reason.

That's why I struggled for so long and why sometimes I still struggle. Just bad habits from a valuecapping POV. Inexperienced handicappers are not going to have these issues, they probably would struggle more in structuring bets and bankroll management.

[mhaney0423]

So with limited experience...you think a month or 2 is enough to learn it the way its intended?

Plus, who is gonna spend 1800$ on a software and give up after 2 months.......

Kind of forces you to stick with it.......when you use.only free stuff, it's real easy to quit and move on the the next free thing. If I pay 1800$ for something you can damn sure bet I'm gonna do everything in my power to make it work for me, or die trying lol

[BroadwayJoe]

Plus, who is gonna spend 1800$ on a software and give up after 2 months.......

Kind of forces you to stick with it.......when you use.only free stuff, it's real easy to quit and move on the the next free thing. If I pay 1800$ for something you can damn sure bet I'm gonna do everything in my power to make it work for me, or die trying lol

:ThmbUp:

[Hanger]

Sure, if you want to spend the time......you don't have to watch every video to use the software as "intended". Basically you are trying to bet horses the software likes that the public should NOT. Preferably with extras (form patterns, etc) and Preferably with anti value above them if they are lower on the line.

The problems come when you question the numbers, or won't bet a good value horse because say its 1-23 or it has a 2% winning jockey on it, or because it's running a route.in it's 20th career start never having routed before.....or because it has only won on turf and is on dirt today.....basic things you just don't normally do in traditional handicapping without good reason.

That's why I struggled for so long and why sometimes I still struggle. Just bad habits from a valuecapping POV. Inexperienced handicappers are not going to have these issues, they probably would struggle more in structuring bets and bankroll management.

Same can be said for all the software- there is people who use HTR has a "black box" and bet the highest PSVX horse and hope for the best. Then there are others that dive deep into information and get paralysis by analysis and forget basics. Its a give and take of information, different for every user of any tool.

[BroadwayJoe]

Same can be said for all the software- there is people who use HTR has a "black box" and bet the highest PSVX horse and hope for the best. Then there are others that dive deep into information and get paralysis by analysis and forget basics. Its a give and take of information, different for every user of any tool.

You know about the PSVX Horse....


:headbanger:

[Hanger]

You know about the PSVX Horse....


:headbanger:

Used HTR for several years, good tool.....I dove too deep.

[BroadwayJoe]

Used HTR for several years, good tool.....I dove too deep.

Would love to get your thoughts on it ....

You could PM or talk here....


thxs

[jdhanover]

Been forever since I posted on here. I bought VC about a year ago. So first question one would ask is are you profitable? Nope but not because of the software - waaaaay too many ‘action’ bets.
But starting to get more selective and utilizing exotics better. Profitable the past two months which is nice…not saying I’ve turned the corner but do think I’m betting smarter
Starting to get a hang of where the software works better/worse. It will struggle in maiden races with FTS but that’s cool cuz that’s the one spot I’ve done well for a while with PP handicapping
Back to the betting change. Only making exotic bets that can payoff well vs swinging in most races. Still not as selective as Matt nor Michael but moreso than I was. And Keeneland was very, very good for me. Big fields helped.

FYI I used HSH for a number of years. It’s very good too just didn’t fit my handicapping style as I found it’s looking more for value in short-priced horses whereas VC is geared towards price horses.

Both Michael and Dave are helpful as are people who use each. And dare I say I’ve made a couple of friends in each community which is a nice add.

There are people who are profitable using each of these programs but I’m guessing most aren’t. That takes a ton of discipline IMO. I don’t have that yet … in part because I also play for ‘fun

The change of late is that I’m still playing a fair number of races but limiting the bets to where the payoffs are solid. With a few less races and slightly better betting strategy I think I’ll be on to something. We shall see.

If you are thinking about either of these or any other expensive package just know that there is no ‘turnkey’ solution. They are tools. You need to be the carpenter and hone your craft.

[BroadwayJoe]

Been forever since I posted on here. I bought VC about a year ago. So first question one would ask is are you profitable? Nope but not because of the software - waaaaay too many ‘action’ bets.
But starting to get more selective and utilizing exotics better. Profitable the past two months which is nice…not saying I’ve turned the corner but do think I’m betting smarter
Starting to get a hang of where the software works better/worse. It will struggle in maiden races with FTS but that’s cool cuz that’s the one spot I’ve done well for a while with PP handicapping
Back to the betting change. Only making exotic bets that can payoff well vs swinging in most races. Still not as selective as Matt nor Michael but moreso than I was. And Keeneland was very, very good for me. Big fields helped.

FYI I used HSH for a number of years. It’s very good too just didn’t fit my handicapping style as I found it’s looking more for value in short-priced horses whereas VC is geared towards price horses.

Both Michael and Dave are helpful as are people who use each. And dare I say I’ve made a couple of friends in each community which is a nice add.

There are people who are profitable using each of these programs but I’m guessing most aren’t. That takes a ton of discipline IMO. I don’t have that yet … in part because I also play for ‘fun

The change of late is that I’m still playing a fair number of races but limiting the bets to where the payoffs are solid. With a few less races and slightly better betting strategy I think I’ll be on to something. We shall see.

If you are thinking about either of these or any other expensive package just know that there is no ‘turnkey’ solution. They are tools. You need to be the carpenter and hone your craft.

Thxs JD ...its absolutely true about playing those "Action" Bets"

But unless you have a set-aside bankroll for these types.....

and you DO NOT make bets more than you Prime plays.....

I believe you can get by..It is difficult waiting and not betting

What I like about software that has exports is that you can create

the scenarios that favor what you looking for in your plays..

That way you can keep busy and stay away from those action bets

as you handicap the prime ones

Your correct in Maiden plays , software developers has to be awfully creative besides

the usual PED TRN JOCK WORKOUTS .....

wink wink

[PaceAdvantage]

Your correct in Maiden plays , software developers has to be awfully creative besides

the usual PED TRN JOCK WORKOUTS .....

wink winkWhat secret sauce does HTR give you for MDN plays? I used the software...so I should know...but I'll let you answer.

[PaceAdvantage]

Been forever since I posted on here. I bought VC about a year ago. So first question one would ask is are you profitable? Nope but not because of the software - waaaaay too many ‘action’ bets.
But starting to get more selective and utilizing exotics better. Profitable the past two months which is nice…not saying I’ve turned the corner but do think I’m betting smarter
Starting to get a hang of where the software works better/worse. It will struggle in maiden races with FTS but that’s cool cuz that’s the one spot I’ve done well for a while with PP handicapping
Back to the betting change. Only making exotic bets that can payoff well vs swinging in most races. Still not as selective as Matt nor Michael but moreso than I was. And Keeneland was very, very good for me. Big fields helped.

FYI I used HSH for a number of years. It’s very good too just didn’t fit my handicapping style as I found it’s looking more for value in short-priced horses whereas VC is geared towards price horses.

Both Michael and Dave are helpful as are people who use each. And dare I say I’ve made a couple of friends in each community which is a nice add.

There are people who are profitable using each of these programs but I’m guessing most aren’t. That takes a ton of discipline IMO. I don’t have that yet … in part because I also play for ‘fun

The change of late is that I’m still playing a fair number of races but limiting the bets to where the payoffs are solid. With a few less races and slightly better betting strategy I think I’ll be on to something. We shall see.

If you are thinking about either of these or any other expensive package just know that there is no ‘turnkey’ solution. They are tools. You need to be the carpenter and hone your craft.Great description. Makes me actually want to buy the software. This and Jeff's software are the only ones I haven't tried, now that I think about it.

I respect Michael Pizzolla greatly. Pace Makes The Race & Handicapping Magic are two of my favorite handicapping books. And his software, from all accounts, should fit my style and my discipline perfectly. I will no doubt venture down the road with his warez eventually...this I know.

[BroadwayJoe]

What secret sauce does HTR give you for MDN plays? I used the software...so I should know...but I'll let you answer.

Sure......

Here's my Excel sheet pertaining to Maiden races on Sat....

The Play indicator are the horse (s) to look at.....

A few races come up with 2 but most are only one or none

These are FTS (nLFST =0) and a POWER FIG Rank 1 or 2 are the ones to handicap...

The Power Fig are derived from 9 HTR Factors which I'm not divulging..

That's it.....

[BroadwayJoe]

That above is my own creation...

You can , of course, use HTR's many Spot Plays creations by Jeff..

Here's a HTR Maiden Spot for Sunday...

[PaceAdvantage]

Sure......

Here's my Excel sheet pertaining to Maiden races on Sat....

The Play indicator are the horse (s) to look at.....

A few races come up with 2 but most are only one or none

These are FTS (nLFST =0) and a POWER FIG Rank 1 or 2 are the ones to handicap...

The Power Fig are derived from 9 HTR Factors which I'm not divulging..

That's it.....And those nine HTR factors aren't based on PED TRN JOCK WORKOUTS or any combination thereof? Really...

[headhawg]

And those nine HTR factors aren't based on PED TRN JOCK WORKOUTS or any combination thereof? Really...:popcorn:

[BroadwayJoe]

And those nine HTR factors aren't based on PED TRN JOCK WORKOUTS or any combination thereof? Really...

There is 2 that are not......but what can you expect with maidens


Lets take Workouts......what do most get out of it ...Ranks?


HTR has a proprietary score for this...that you can't figure out

Also , I have made weighted scores for each factor that most wouldn't get...


if your still being sarcastic with my posts ...I won't respond any more

[PaceAdvantage]

if your still being sarcastic with my posts ...I won't respond any moreThat's kind of priceless, coming from you.

[BroadwayJoe]

That's kind of priceless, coming from you.

yep...only you brings it out



:mad:

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, I'm the problem...:lol:

[BroadwayJoe]

Yeah, I'm the problem...:lol:

I like to know how many others hate my guts besides you?


Please speak up...no hard feelings.....



:confused:

[PaceAdvantage]

I like to know how many others hate my guts besides you?


Please speak up...no hard feelings.....



:confused:If I hated your guts, I wouldn't keep letting you stay here under name #1,072

What I hate is your non-stop obsession with Dave and HSH.

[BroadwayJoe]

If I hated your guts, I wouldn't keep letting you stay here under name #1,072

What I hate is your non-stop obsession with Dave and HSH.


Believe me , there are plenty of haters still around but don't want to deal with the bull

Either they died, gave up , or you banned....



But I never lied !!!!!


:)


PS- Yes, I did know them before they died...not after

[mhaney0423]

Been forever since I posted on here. I bought VC about a year ago. So first question one would ask is are you profitable? Nope but not because of the software - waaaaay too many ‘action’ bets.
But starting to get more selective and utilizing exotics better. Profitable the past two months which is nice…not saying I’ve turned the corner but do think I’m betting smarter
Starting to get a hang of where the software works better/worse. It will struggle in maiden races with FTS but that’s cool cuz that’s the one spot I’ve done well for a while with PP handicapping
Back to the betting change. Only making exotic bets that can payoff well vs swinging in most races. Still not as selective as Matt nor Michael but moreso than I was. And Keeneland was very, very good for me. Big fields helped.

FYI I used HSH for a number of years. It’s very good too just didn’t fit my handicapping style as I found it’s looking more for value in short-priced horses whereas VC is geared towards price horses.

Both Michael and Dave are helpful as are people who use each. And dare I say I’ve made a couple of friends in each community which is a nice add.

There are people who are profitable using each of these programs but I’m guessing most aren’t. That takes a ton of discipline IMO. I don’t have that yet … in part because I also play for ‘fun

The change of late is that I’m still playing a fair number of races but limiting the bets to where the payoffs are solid. With a few less races and slightly better betting strategy I think I’ll be on to something. We shall see.

If you are thinking about either of these or any other expensive package just know that there is no ‘turnkey’ solution. They are tools. You need to be the carpenter and hone your craft.

Thanks Jon for chiming in, for those of you who dont know, Jon is an excellent handicapper and it has been a pleasure meeting him and getting to learn from him and discuss races. We often have live valuecapping sessions via MS TEAMS on the weekends.

[PaceAdvantage]

Believe me , there are plenty of haters still around but don't want to deal with the bull

Either they died, gave up , or you banned....



But I never lied !!!!!


:)


PS- Yes, I did know them before they died...not afterNobody cares...except you.

Dave's is like any other software. Some just won't be able to make it work.

but since I actually posted MULTIPLE 500+ profitable runs on here, using HSH...I think I've proven that it works.

It's still definitely not for everyone. But you can't say it isn't profitable.

Unlike most people on this board, I actually PROVED IT.

[mhaney0423]

Nobody cares...except you.

Dave's is like any other software. Some just won't be able to make it work.

but since I actually posted MULTIPLE 500+ profitable runs on here, using HSH...I think I've proven that it works.

It's still definitely not for everyone. But you can't say it isn't profitable.

Unlike most people on this board, I actually PROVED IT.

Honestly, I think its more about the player than the software, now finding a software that matches ones playing style certainly helps. But I think most software will work if someone devotes the time and energy to learn it and has the discipline to use the software in races/situations where it is most effective.

There is something to be said though, for those folks who actually show a profitable run with a software BEFORE they knew the result. Congrats for doing that! I always found those threads really interesting.

[headhawg]

I like to know how many others hate my guts besides you?


Please speak up...no hard feelings.....



:confused:It's not hate, but let's just say that based on your posts you are an acquired taste. On the handicapping side of PA I don't recall anyone as negative as you. For me personally, I can only tolerate so much of that crap. I'm sure that some people feel the same way about me. It's part and parcel of being on a forum.

[BroadwayJoe]

It's not hate, but let's just say that based on your posts you are an acquired taste. On the handicapping side of PA I don't recall anyone as negative as you. For me personally, I can only tolerate so much of that crap. I'm sure that some people feel the same way about me. It's part and parcel of being on a forum.

Its fine man.....

the glory of it is that you don't have to respond .....

Its not negativity always.....if I had experience , I'll comment....

The worst thing people can do is to come in here and ask...

What about XYZ Software...


:D

[mhaney0423]

Its fine man.....

the glory of it is that you don't have to respond .....

Its not negativity always.....if I had experience , I'll comment....

The worst thing people can do is to come in here and ask...

What about XYZ Software...


:D

For what it's worth Mike, you never have bothered me, but I will say, if you question someone else's methods/software, you always run the risk of them not taking it well. I myself understand that we all approach this game differently and we all have different styles of handicapping, different comfort levels with betting/money management, different amounts of time to devote to the game, and different ways we like to see data presented.

You seem more like a database guy to me, I went through that stage and found it didn't work for me.....paralysis by analysis for me anyway. But if that style works for you, who am I to tell you different. We can all continue to learn from each other.

[headhawg]

the glory of it is that you don't have to respond .....I could say the same to you, and yet you DO respond -- to almost everything! No worries MikeGerogeJoe. Good luck to all no matter what software you choose. It's a tough game.

[Mikym]

So…even though I haven’t posted for a year now, I do feel the need to chime in.

This year, my year has gone pretty much the same way last year did. Really well in the beginning of the year, really not well second half of the year. Not sure why.

Matt brings up some excellent points…one of which does seem to stop me from reaching my full potential with VC which is his rules comment. I’m in finance…so I’m kind of a rules guy. It is very hard for me to ignore my rules. I’m getting better and I still have a few that just seem to make sense to me, but I have cut those way down.

Another good point Matt made which may have gotten missed was how people just starting out with VC seem to do really well. That was certainly the case for me. It’s almost like that saying that says a little knowledge can be dangerous. As I learned more, the harder the game seemed to get.

I don’t actually play a lot of races. Recently, I downloaded 5 tracks, and made three bets (all losses by the way.). I think one of the things I like about VC is that - at least for me - it has a built in discipline which stops me from betting too many races.

I have learned a lot from Matt (and all of you actually.) I can honestly say that after using VC for two years now, that while I will certainly not be able to buy a new car or take a great vacation from my winnings, I have never fallen below my initial deposit in my account…which seems like a win to me anyway. But I sure wish I was better so I could buy that car!

[mhaney0423]

So…even though I haven’t posted for a year now, I do feel the need to chime in.

This year, my year has gone pretty much the same way last year did. Really well in the beginning of the year, really not well second half of the year. Not sure why.

Matt brings up some excellent points…one of which does seem to stop me from reaching my full potential with VC which is his rules comment. I’m in finance…so I’m kind of a rules guy. It is very hard for me to ignore my rules. I’m getting better and I still have a few that just seem to make sense to me, but I have cut those way down.

Another good point Matt made which may have gotten missed was how people just starting out with VC seem to do really well. That was certainly the case for me. It’s almost like that saying that says a little knowledge can be dangerous. As I learned more, the harder the game seemed to get.

I don’t actually play a lot of races. Recently, I downloaded 5 tracks, and made three bets (all losses by the way.). I think one of the things I like about VC is that - at least for me - it has a built in discipline which stops me from betting too many races.

I have learned a lot from Matt (and all of you actually.) I can honestly say that after using VC for two years now, that while I will certainly not be able to buy a new car or take a great vacation from my winnings, I have never fallen below my initial deposit in my account…which seems like a win to me anyway. But I sure wish I was better so I could buy that car!

Glad to hear you are not losing too much, that was really my goal all along. Basically I was just hoping to make enough to pay for the data, which I have the last several years with a few bucks to spare. Certainly never going to get rich playing this game, at least not the way I play it.

Read a great article or blog by someone a while back, may have been by Dave Schwartz on his website maybe, cant remember for sure. But he went into detail the amount of money yoyu would need to push through the windows given a $1.10-$1.20 ROI to make even $1000 a week, which would certainly not be a comfortable living these days. It was astronomical!! The author also mentioned how emotionally draining it was as soon as he decided to play professionally, where he knew he had to make x amount of dollars over x period of time to feed the family, pay the mortgage, keep the heat on, etc. As much as I hate working a 9-5, I am 100% certain handicapping horses for a living would be worse, just is not something I am prepared to do.

The part I enjoy about Valuecapper is there isnt a lot of data mining or systems you have to learn to break even or make a few bucks, which allows me to focus on what has always been the weakest parts of my game, bet structure and money management. Still working on this and suppose I will be until the day I die, but I am making progress.

Always happy to meet up and discuss horses every once in a while if you'd like, pretty sure Jon would be game too, if we can find a weekend where life doesnt get in the way for an hour or two!!

Best,

M

[BroadwayJoe]

Nice posts guys.....

I too am happy to be about even.....

If i'd ever lost say 5/10 grand a year then HH would be very happy to see me stop posting...

But it isn't and you and PA will have me around till I die....

:jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

If I could do no better than break even or even slightly profitable, I'd stop wasting my time on this game (which I have, for the time being, for precisely that reason...the return hasn't been worth the effort).

[BroadwayJoe]

If I could do no better than break even or even slightly profitable, I'd stop wasting my time on this game (which I have, for the time being, for precisely that reason...the return hasn't been worth the effort).

Maybe I should start trading......


Wanna book them?


:lol::lol::lol:

[mhaney0423]

If I could do no better than break even or even slightly profitable, I'd stop wasting my time on this game (which I have, for the time being, for precisely that reason...the return hasn't been worth the effort).

Agree 100% PA, thats why I like Valuecapper, I can basically go through every race for the day in about 30 minutes and get my win bets, and 30 minutes may be a bit of an overestimate, Id say I normally spend 15 to 20 minutes looking through and the other 10 minutes placing the bets conditionally.....Im done for the day. Set it and forget it, no stress. On the days where I decide to actually watch the board, which is about 2 days a month maybe, I spend a lot more time.

Its just a fun hobby for me!

[BroadwayJoe]

Agree 100% PA, thats why I like Valuecapper, I can basically go through every race for the day in about 30 minutes and get my win bets, and 30 minutes may be a bit of an overestimate, Id say I normally spend 15 to 20 minutes looking through and the other 10 minutes placing the bets conditionally.....Im done for the day. Set it and forget it, no stress. On the days where I decide to actually watch the board, which is about 2 days a month maybe, I spend a lot more time.

Its just a fun hobby for me!

Same here

PA what the F am I going to do??


Find a job :lol::lol::lol:

[Gerard02]

Agree 100% PA, thats why I like Valuecapper, I can basically go through every race for the day in about 30 minutes and get my win bets, and 30 minutes may be a bit of an overestimate, Id say I normally spend 15 to 20 minutes looking through and the other 10 minutes placing the bets conditionally.....Im done for the day. Set it and forget it, no stress. On the days where I decide to actually watch the board, which is about 2 days a month maybe, I spend a lot more time.

Its just a fun hobby for me!

Horse racing is my passion. VC has made it easier for my to cover the races faster than just buying the form and starting from scratch. The value advisor screen leads me away from risky races. My weakness is also, money management and bet structure. I tend to play way too many races. It’s also hard to stop when you score nice profit early in the day and know it’s time to call it. Take the money and run. When you’re at the track, it’s not that easy. I’m there to wager and relax. Yet, I know that’s what has to be done. Sigh. The rigors of wagering, I guess. Downloaded Friday and Saturdays Breeders Cup card at Keenland. Going over it, right now. Lots of passes and arc 7+’s. Figured that. Usually, I just lay $2 down on every longshot over 10-1 in the Cup. I’ve made some nice money doing that. I miss buying Stan Caris’ breeders cup list. He was damned good with that. I still have his book on the Breeders Cup, but all that work killed me, even though I did pretty well with it. Tired me out. Had to get the form in advance and spend many hours going through the requirements. I saved all of his articles and will go through them. Never leave any info behind. Good luck in the BC. Look forward to your future insights on VC.

[Speed Figure]

Michaels back with his annual VC rant for the Breeders' Cup! give this man credit for doing these along with the Triple Crown rants before the races! No after the race genius! He goes through the races and gives his opinion! find another software vendor that does this "BEFORE THE RACES HAVE BEEN RAN"

[BarchCapper]

Michaels back with his annual VC rant for the Breeders' Cup! give this man credit for doing these along with the Triple Crown rants before the races! No after the race genius! He goes through the races and gives his opinion! find another software vendor that does this "BEFORE THE RACES HAVE BEEN RAN"

Scotty McKeever of EquineEdge?

[Speed Figure]

Scotty McKeever of EquineEdge?Scotty has a web based product, same as Race Lens. I'm talking about software that's installed on your computer. I do like Scotty a lot!

[BroadwayJoe]

Scotty McKeever of EquineEdge?



Never heard this one before

Where do they get their data?

[BarchCapper]

Never heard this one before

Where do they get their data?

No idea. Here's their website if you want to poke around:

https://equinedge.com/index.html

A lot of YouTube videos and "play along" streams available.

[BroadwayJoe]

No idea. Here's their website if you want to poke around:

https://equinedge.com/index.html

A lot of YouTube videos and "play along" streams available.

thx

a quick look shows


$700 for a compact chart and someones ratings

no pp's or researching tools


a definite pass


So far I still think Bet Mix is best on-line handicapping software