Westbrook: Season Triple Double

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Not since the Big O has it happened.

A single player averaging 10 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 assists a night. The vaunted Triple Double. Over an entire season, not just one night, an entire season.

Well, for the 2nd time in NBA history, Russell Westbrook has achieved that feat.

And he STILL might not be awarded the MVP of the league.

[cj]

Oscar didn't win MVP either. Russ will though. Harden has kind of fizzled of late while Russ has had some highlight reel comeback wins. I think he really opened the gap. Tonight's game certainly won't be on any highlight reel for OKC, that is for sure.

[barahona44]

Oscar didn't win MVP either. Russ will though. Harden has kind of fizzled of late while Russ has had some highlight reel comeback wins. I think he really opened the gap. Tonight's game certainly won't be on any highlight reel for OKC, that is for sure.

Houston has improved by 12 victories this year.
OKC has declined by 10 victories.

Has to be Harden.Westbrook is a one man band and I agree they'd be much worse off without him, but I still think an MVP has to be a team with a legitimate chance to go deep in the playoffs.Houston has a better chance to do that than the Thunder.

[cj]

Houston has improved by 12 victories this year.
OKC has declined by 10 victories.

Has to be Harden.Westbrook is a one man band and I agree they'd be much worse off without him, but I still think an MVP has to be a team with a legitimate chance to go deep in the playoffs.Houston has a better chance to do that than the Thunder.

Of course they dropped 10 games, they lost Kevin Durant. They are the Nets without Russ. This team wouldn't win 15 games.

I don't get the team record thing. If that is the criteria, Curry and Leonard are all well ahead of Harden. Where do you draw that line?

[EasyGoer89]

Of course they dropped 10 games, they lost Kevin Durant. They are the Nets without Russ. This team wouldn't win 15 games.

I don't get the team record thing. If that is the criteria, Curry and Leonard are all well ahead of Harden. Where do you draw that line?

OKC worth a wager tonight? I like betting an NBA home team who's down 0-2 in first home game of playoffs, would appreciate the insight, thanks. GL

[HoofedInTheChest]

OKC worth a wager tonight? I like betting an NBA home team who's down 0-2 in first home game of playoffs, would appreciate the insight, thanks. GL
OKC are the betting favorites at -140, why would you want to go after that?

[cj]

OKC worth a wager tonight? I like betting an NBA home team who's down 0-2 in first home game of playoffs, would appreciate the insight, thanks. GL

Role players almost always play better at home, but there is no value in taking them tonight IMO.

[EasyGoer89]

OKC are the betting favorites at -140, why would you want to go after that?

im always looking out for the tank game, I'd really prefer to not have to win 100 pct of my bets where the other team is throwing the preverbial 60 mins of bloody haymakers in the middle of the ring with an 'all out must win' attitude. Spurs last night perfect example, that wasn't their best punch, I'm trying to bet on teams where the other guys aren't going to hit me w best shot so that's why I was thinking Houston might 'take a night off'.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Westbrook should have a growl on tonight seeing that he is $15K lighter today, Mr. Potty Mouth!

There is nothing better than an expletive to put an exclamation on a point made.

[EasyGoer89]

Westbrook should have a growl on tonight seeing that he is $15K lighter today, Mr. Potty Mouth!

There is nothing better than an expletive to put an exclamation on a point made.

15k to him is 10 cents to us lol

[ElKabong]

He was fined about 25k last season for cursing out a Dallas Mavs fan..... Classy guy

In the end, he's just another classless guy in a league known for such.

[EasyGoer89]

He was fined about 25k last season for cursing out a Dallas Mavs fan..... Classy guy

In the end, he's just another classless guy in a league known for such.

Maybe the fan said something to him first? If fans make comments to players than players need to comment back and I don't think they should be fined either.

[cj]

He was fined about 25k last season for cursing out a Dallas Mavs fan..... Classy guy

In the end, he's just another classless guy in a league known for such.

LOL, OK. You know nothing about this guy. If you want to judge him based on some foul language there isn't much else to say.

[ElKabong]

Maybe the fan said something to him first? If fans make comments to players than players need to comment back and I don't think they should be fined either.

you don't make the rules though.

He is what he is. Can he do something other than put up a lot of #s? I doubt it. Let's see how far his team goes into the playoffs, ok? He's the leader, time to lead

[cj]

you don't make the rules though.

He is what he is. Can he do something other than put up a lot of #s? I doubt it. Let's see how far his team goes into the playoffs, ok? He's the leader, time to lead

He did just fine last year. KD start dribbling balls off his foot and shooting 10-35 or whatever it was in Game 6 or they'd have been in the Finals again.

Russ is far from the problem. He is a great leader on the floor and off. The other players love him, which seems odd for a guy that is supposedly selfish.

The problem in this series is he can't play 48 minutes. Every time he sits for a few minutes 10-12 point leads are cut to two or three or gone altogether. He is a great basketball player but he isn't superman.

[EasyGoer89]

you don't make the rules though.

He is what he is. Can he do something other than put up a lot of #s? I doubt it. Let's see how far his team goes into the playoffs, ok? He's the leader, time to lead

His 'team' is him.

[cj]

His 'team' is him.

Exactly. I've been saying that almost all year. It is painfully obvious in this series, but visually and statistically. Every time he leaves the game the Thunder get walloped. When he is in the are the better team. It is proving too much against a better team. The guys is getting worn down because he can't sit for two minutes.

[HoofedInTheChest]

His 'team' is him.
Not according to his last presser.

[EasyGoer89]

Exactly. I've been saying that almost all year. It is painfully obvious in this series, but visually and statistically. Every time he leaves the game the Thunder get walloped. When he is in the are the better team. It is proving too much against a better team. The guys is getting worn down because he can't sit for two minutes.

Seems similar to the roster Lebron had before he left for Miami. When you're not really sure who the 2nd best player on the team is, that's trouble. Russ has Taj Gibson and Lebron had Daniel.

They're possibly a lottery team without him.

[cj]

Seems similar to the roster Lebron had before he left for Miami. When you're not really sure who the 2nd best player on the team is, that's trouble. Russ has Taj Gibson and Lebron had Daniel.

They're possibly a lottery team without him.

I don't think it is possibly, it is definite. They are a very young team. Presti started rebuilding the roster the second KD left. Adams, Oladipo, Sabonis, Abrines, Grant, Roberson, Christon, Heustis and McDermott are all still on there rookie contracts. Some end this year, but that is a young basketball team.

[ElKabong]

Wow. Watching him and okc in the 4th quarter tonight is like watching a root canal. Facing elimination , they can't hit a shot. Guys, it's do or die.

Right now he's one for his last ten for the field. Clutch player?? Hardly. Say goodnight Gracie, not your year again.

[ElKabong]

:headbanger:His 'team' is him.

Not exactly. The moment the game was over Westbrook took all those empty calories directly to the locker room. Didn't shake anyone's hand. Saw some of his teammates congratulate their opponents, but not Westbrook

Classy guy, like I said.

[cj]

Wow. Watching him and okc in the 4th quarter tonight is like watching a root canal. Facing elimination , they can't hit a shot. Guys, it's do or die.

Right now he's one for his last ten for the field. Clutch player?? Hardly. Say goodnight Gracie, not your year again.

He had one of the most historically great seasons when it came to clutch time this year. Dude hit many huge shots. If you can't see the guy was exhausted carrying the team against one that is far superior I don't know what to tell you. Without Russ the Thunder are a 15 win team.

Shocking revelation it wasn't OKCs year. Brilliant.

[cj]

:headbanger:

Not exactly. The moment the game was over Westbrook took all those empty calories directly to the locker room. Didn't shake anyone's hand. Saw some of his teammates congratulate their opponents, but not Westbrook

Classy guy, like I said.

Why should he shake the hands of guys that were openly mocking and laughing at his teammate during a game. That is about as classless as it gets.

Got to give it to you, this is some high quality trolling here in the thread by you. I guess Texas being an embarrassment in just about everything gives you more free time. Its baseball season again, maybe you can kill some time watching the Rangers choke away another season. I thought they'd improve with their coke snorting manager gone, but hasn't worked out that way.

[EasyGoer89]

I don't think it is possibly, it is definite. They are a very young team. Presti started rebuilding the roster the second KD left. Adams, Oladipo, Sabonis, Abrines, Grant, Roberson, Christon, Heustis and McDermott are all still on there rookie contracts. Some end this year, but that is a young basketball team.

I put possible because I know they're your team and wanted to show respect, youre right though, they wouldn't win too many games without him.

[EasyGoer89]

:headbanger:

Not exactly. The moment the game was over Westbrook took all those empty calories directly to the locker room. Didn't shake anyone's hand. Saw some of his teammates congratulate their opponents, but not Westbrook

Classy guy, like I said.

I don't mind, losing hurts, sometimes u don't want to deal with anyone.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Wow. Watching him and okc in the 4th quarter tonight is like watching a root canal. Facing elimination , they can't hit a shot. Guys, it's do or die.

Right now he's one for his last ten for the field. Clutch player?? Hardly. Say goodnight Gracie, not your year again.

Schadenfreude

[ElKabong]

Why should he shake the hands of guys that were openly mocking and laughing at his teammate during a game. That is about as classless as it gets.

Got to give it to you, this is some high quality trolling here in the thread by you. I guess Texas being an embarrassment in just about everything gives you more free time. Its baseball season again, maybe you can kill some time watching the Rangers choke away another season. I thought they'd improve with their coke snorting manager gone, but hasn't worked out that way.

So you take the thread went from Westbrook being great... to the Rangers. Misdirection much?

As for the rockets players mocking an opponent, like I said, the league is full of classless guys (westbrook fits in well). It's why I only watch this trash during the playoffs.

[ElKabong]

I don't mind, losing hurts, sometimes u don't want to deal with anyone.

Some of his teammates clearly had no problem shaking hands. Why would westbrook have a problem congratulating a team that is better than his?

Not a leader. No class. Not worth any additional comment really. He's insignificant without the empty calories.

[cj]

So you take the thread went from Westbrook being great... to the Rangers. Misdirection much?

As for the rockets players mocking an opponent, like I said, the league is full of classless guys (westbrook fits in well). It's why I only watch this trash during the playoffs.

HoofedInTheChest said it best.

I don't know why you'd feel the need to comment on something you know nothing about, but it is a message board and all comments are welcome, even uninformed ones.

You're classless guy does all kinds of charity work around OKC and tries to keep it quiet. He is a good family man that never causes an ounce of trouble off the court. He busts his tail and never takes a play off. His teammates love him. That is the kind of guy I can get behind and tells me a lot more than a few swear words or not shaking hands does.

[Valuist]

We all heard these numbers re: Westbrook for the Houston series:

on court: OKC plus 15
off court: OKC minus 58.

What wasn't mentioned was Adams numbers:

on court: OKC plus 16
off court: OKC minus 59

[cj]

We all heard these numbers re: Westbrook for the Houston series:

on court: OKC plus 15
off court: OKC minus 58.

What wasn't mentioned was Adams numbers:

on court: OKC plus 16
off court: OKC minus 59

They almost always play together. Adams is a key part of the future. He doesn't have big numbers but he does a lot of things well.

[ElKabong]

HoofedInTheChest said it best.

I don't know why you'd feel the need to comment on something you know nothing about, but it is a message board and all comments are welcome, even uninformed ones.

You're classless guy does all kinds of charity work around OKC and tries to keep it quiet. He is a good family man that never causes an ounce of trouble off the court. He busts his tail and never takes a play off. His teammates love him. That is the kind of guy I can get behind and tells me a lot more than a few swear words or not shaking hands does.

You pretty much described OJ Simpson in your 2nd paragraph, pre June 1994. Rings hollow to me

Your first paragraph, I've followed the nba since the early 60s. It's long since morphed into a joke as far as the regular season goes. I do watch the playoffs, and was not the least bit impressed with westbrook nor his team

As Mike Rhyner (local radio sports guy) has long said about the nba,
"somebody has to score the points"... the point at the time was, don't get excited about nba stats for individuals during the regular season. His comments were about Mark Aguirre and later Adrian Dantley... Mine are about westbrook. He's empty calories

Now he watches the playoffs like you and other "fans"

You can accept that as ones opinion, or keep replying. My life doesn't hang on wins and losses of any sports team so it doesn't matter to me what you do.

[cj]

You pretty much described OJ Simpson in your 2nd paragraph, pre June 1994. Rings hollow to me

Your first paragraph, I've followed the nba since the early 60s. It's long since morphed into a joke as far as the regular season goes. I do watch the playoffs, and was not the least bit impressed with westbrook nor his team

As Mike Rhyner (local radio sports guy) has long said about the nba,
"somebody has to score the points"... the point at the time was, don't get excited about nba stats for individuals during the regular season. His comments were about Mark Aguirre and later Adrian Dantley... Mine are about westbrook. He's empty calories

Now he watches the playoffs like you and other "fans"

You can accept that as ones opinion, or keep replying. My life doesn't hang on wins and losses of any sports team so it doesn't matter to me what you do.

OJ Simpson...that's rich.

The game has changed a lot. Point guards dominate. You can't win much without one that can score a lot. Ask Chris Paul how being a prototypical old school PG has worked out for him in the playoffs. Teams want the ball in the hands of there best player most of the time. For the record, I count LeBron as a point guard because he mostly is on offense. What happened in the 60s really doesn't matter all that much any more. The players are WAY better now.

Have a nice day.

[PressThePace]

I have watched the NBA for quite some time as well. My take is a little different Elk. Having played the game at the Division I level and coaching basketball for the last 20, my perspective comes from that of someone who is normally very critical.

My early take on Westbrook was very similar to yours and in some ways it hasn't changed. For instance, I really don't think Westbrook ever wins a title. He is truly an enigma. The traits that make him great also spell impending doom at any time. I truly believe he is a team guy, cares about his teammates, and wants his teammates to succeed. The chip he carries on his shoulder is the size of a boulder...it's also one of his biggest assets. His relentlessness is unmatched in my opinion, now and throughout history. Name a guy that plays harder. I think this is why some of the old-school NBA guys like him. He's a little bit of a throwback. Yeah, he doesn't shake hands at the end of the game. Big deal. I've never understood how athletes are supposed to try to kill each other and then in an instant embrace the other and hug it out. I never liked it as a player and I don't think it's necessary as a coach. I will say that I think it hurts his reputation with some players. Most of the millennials playing today grew up playing on travel AAU teams, teaming up with guys from different schools. They're all friends. Westbrook just doesn't think that way. And, I for one like that.

The other thing that bothers me is the notion that Westbrook doesn't trust his teammates. For starters, he views himself as a superior player. Again, a trait that makes him very good. I take players aside all of the time to let them know that sometimes they have to be a little bit selfish. It's not always the best idea to hit the open teammate if he can't score in a phone booth. The Spurs and the Warriors are fun to watch and there is symmetry within their offensive system. But, that doesn't mean it would work with OKC's current roster. It is what it is. Secondly, Westbrook had a completely different role with a much less talented roster than previous years. I thought he improved by leaps and bounds this season. The construction of the team(due in large part to the late departure of KD) is more to blame with regards to their offensive woes. More than anything else, Westbrook is simply polarizing. There's no in between. He's unapologetic, lacks political correctness, irrational at times, and downright surly in the heat of the moment. He pisses people off. I think he strikes a nerve with you, which is ironic. You call CJ simply a fan. You sound like one too..

[thaskalos]

I have watched the NBA for quite some time as well. My take is a little different Elk. Having played the game at the Division I level and coaching basketball for the last 20, my perspective comes from that of someone who is normally very critical.

My early take on Westbrook was very similar to yours and in some ways it hasn't changed. For instance, I really don't think Westbrook ever wins a title. He is truly an enigma. The traits that make him great also spell impending doom at any time. I truly believe he is a team guy, cares about his teammates, and wants his teammates to succeed. The chip he carries on his shoulder is the size of a boulder...it's also one of his biggest assets. His relentlessness is unmatched in my opinion, now and throughout history. Name a guy that plays harder. I think this is why some of the old-school NBA guys like him. He's a little bit of a throwback. Yeah, he doesn't shake hands at the end of the game. Big deal. I've never understood how athletes are supposed to try to kill each other and then in an instant embrace the other and hug it out. I never liked it as a player and I don't think it's necessary as a coach. I will say that I think it hurts his reputation with some players. Most of the millennials playing today grew up playing on travel AAU teams, teaming up with guys from different schools. They're all friends. Westbrook just doesn't think that way. And, I for one like that.

The other thing that bothers me is the notion that Westbrook doesn't trust his teammates. For starters, he views himself as a superior player. Again, a trait that makes him very good. I take players aside all of the time to let them know that sometimes they have to be a little bit selfish. It's not always the best idea to hit the open teammate if he can't score in a phone booth. The Spurs and the Warriors are fun to watch and there is symmetry within their offensive system. But, that doesn't mean it would work with OKC's current roster. It is what it is. Secondly, Westbrook had a completely different role with a much less talented roster than previous years. I thought he improved by leaps and bounds this season. The construction of the team(due in large part to the late departure of KD) is more to blame with regards to their offensive woes. More than anything else, Westbrook is simply polarizing. There's no in between. He's unapologetic, lacks political correctness, irrational at times, and downright surly in the heat of the moment. He pisses people off. I think he strikes a nerve with you, which is ironic. You call CJ simply a fan. You sound like one too..

You started off by saying that your opinion about Westbrook resembles that of ElKabong...but then you contradicted yourself by agreeing with every single one of Westbrook's "shortcomings".

ElKabong HATES Westbrook, and you hold a FAVORABLE opinion of him...and his play. So...where exactly is this "similarity" between your opinion and ElKabong's?

[EasyGoer89]

Some of his teammates clearly had no problem shaking hands. Why would westbrook have a problem congratulating a team that is better than his?

Not a leader. No class. Not worth any additional comment really. He's insignificant without the empty calories.

You don't know what was said on the court or in between the lines, you don't know how personal it got, I can't agree with your position from the couch calling a guy out without knowing all the facts, this was a heat of the moment thing, I totally 'get' not shaking hands, sometimes there's bad blood and a fake handshake would be more disingenuous than the truth.

[PressThePace]

Thask, I never stated that my take on Westbrook "resembles" his opinion. I stated that it used to...and that some of my opinions still hold.

I used to be under the impression that Westbrook wasn't a team guy. I used to think he was nothing more than a gunslinger. I used to think he was nothing more than "empty calories". I used to think he was padding stats. But, as I've watched him over the years, he has actually improved. Sorry if I muddied the water.

[ElKabong]

You started off by saying that your opinion about Westbrook resembles that of ElKabong...but then you contradicted yourself by agreeing with every single one of Westbrook's "shortcomings".

ElKabong HATES Westbrook, and you hold a FAVORABLE opinion of him...and his play. So...where exactly is this "similarity" between your opinion and ElKabong's?

Your propensity for being wrong knows no bounds. I never said I hated westbrook..., and I don't. I stated he's empty calories, has little or no class (cussing out a fan in a major way). Hate has nothing to do with it. I really could care less about him.

I watch games for entertainment but also give performances an impartial, critical eye like. I'm far less a "fan" than I am an individual who appreciates the game being played. But westbrook is obviously no champion, to me. Until he proves me wrong I'll continue to see it that way. That's not "HATE".

[thaskalos]

I have debated with CJ earlier...and I've stated that I think the MVP should be given to Harden. When I used the word "hate", I used it as the opposite of "like"...just as a fan sometimes says "I like this team, and I hate this one". "Hate", when used to describe teams or athletes, doesn't necessarily mean that there is any personally-directed animosity involved. Sometimes it just means that we "dislike" a player's on-field performance. When we "hate" a player...we sometimes make comments such as this:


Not a leader. No class. Not worth any additional comment really. He's insignificant without the empty calories.

And when we do, it shows strong "dislike"...and not "indifference". IMO, of course.

[ElKabong]

I have debated with CJ earlier...and I've stated that I think the MVP should be given to Harden. When I used the word "hate", I used it as the opposite of "like"...just as a fan sometimes says "I like this team, and I hate this one". "Hate", when used to describe teams or athletes, doesn't necessarily mean that there is any personally-directed animosity involved. Sometimes it just means that we "dislike" a player's on-field performance. When we "hate" a player...we sometimes make comments such as this:



And when we do, it shows strong "dislike"...and not "indifference". IMO, of course.

Let me go further on westbrook being just short of a cancer (if not already one). The unnecessary cussing out of a fan isn't the only issue the guy has had. This, from years ago.... Note how Shaq, Barkley are choosing their words. Not much respect for westbrook there either...The bold type below was as good as it gets when examining his charachter, or lack thereof

Those are quotes by former all stars that have been thru nba title season in active roles... Not "fans"

http://newsok.com/article/3750960


Westbrook barked at teammate Thabo Sefolosha, took a wild shot that prompted coach Scott Brooks to pull him, and became enraged as assistant coach Maurice Cheeks tried to counsel him on the bench. Westbrook knocked over a chair and stormed off the court into a tunnel at Chesapeake Energy Arena.

Here's what Westbrook said about the incident in a interview with TNT's Craig Sager:

Sager: "Everything was going your way. You had a big lead. You were playing terrific, and all of a sudden (in the)third quarter words were exchanged. What go you so upset?"

Westbrook: "Ah, nothing. Just a little miscommunication."

Sager: "Between you and Thabo?"

Sager: "I know that happens once in a while. All's well that ends well. But at times do you think you need to control your temper more?"

Westbrook: "I control it like a man, like I did."

Sager: "What's that mean?"

Westbrook: (No response)

Sager: "Put it behind you and go ahead and win?"

Westbrook: "If that's what you say, bro."

TNT studio analysts Kenny Smith, Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley discussed the incident, with Smith and Barkley saying the Thunder has a team chemistry problem.

Smith: "Chemistry is a fragile thing ... I hate to walk around the locker room on egg shells on a guy when he does something like that. Now you can't act natural around this guy for a couple days, and that really messes your team morale up."

O'Neal: "Westbrook is one of the leaders of this team and in order to be a great leader you have to be a great listener. He messed up. Sefolosha's right. Sefolosha's man doubled down with five seconds (left on the shot clock). He should have kicked it out. That's smart basketball. Sefolosha said, 'yo, pass the ball.' He got upset. He's wrong. He knows he's wrong. Move on."

Barkley: "I don't think he knows he's wrong or he wouldn't be acting like that. Listen, Maurice Cheeks and my man Scott Brooks got to handle this. This has been going on for years now. But now they're an elite team. It's championship or bust. And we said the same (thing), this is like the third year in a row we've said that.

"Just go back a couple years ago they were getting on his case. Then last year he played all right, then he shot too much in the Finals. And now we're in the middle of the season and at some point Scott and Maurice got to go, "Hey dude, you either got to grow up or we can't win a championship. Because.. when you have blowups like this, they only show up under pressure in big situations, and this is as regular-season game. Everybody's kind of chillin' getting ready for the All-Star break. This thing is going to show it's ugly head deep in the playoffs if they don't .. they've got to handle this."

[PressThePace]

http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2017/04/charles_barkley_russell_westbr.html

I guess Chuck changed his mind too...

[PressThePace]

And Shaq too...

http://clutchpoints.com/shaq-russell-westbrook-ahead-james-harden-mvp/

[thaskalos]

Let me go further on westbrook being just short of a cancer (if not already one). The unnecessary cussing out of a fan isn't the only issue the guy has had. This, from years ago.... Note how Shaq, Barkley are choosing their words. Not much respect for westbrook there either...The bold type below was as good as it gets when examining his charachter, or lack thereof

Those are quotes by former all stars that have been thru nba title season in active roles... Not "fans"

http://newsok.com/article/3750960


Westbrook barked at teammate Thabo Sefolosha, took a wild shot that prompted coach Scott Brooks to pull him, and became enraged as assistant coach Maurice Cheeks tried to counsel him on the bench. Westbrook knocked over a chair and stormed off the court into a tunnel at Chesapeake Energy Arena.

Here's what Westbrook said about the incident in a interview with TNT's Craig Sager:

Sager: "Everything was going your way. You had a big lead. You were playing terrific, and all of a sudden (in the)third quarter words were exchanged. What go you so upset?"

Westbrook: "Ah, nothing. Just a little miscommunication."

Sager: "Between you and Thabo?"

Sager: "I know that happens once in a while. All's well that ends well. But at times do you think you need to control your temper more?"

Westbrook: "I control it like a man, like I did."

Sager: "What's that mean?"

Westbrook: (No response)

Sager: "Put it behind you and go ahead and win?"

Westbrook: "If that's what you say, bro."

TNT studio analysts Kenny Smith, Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley discussed the incident, with Smith and Barkley saying the Thunder has a team chemistry problem.

Smith: "Chemistry is a fragile thing ... I hate to walk around the locker room on egg shells on a guy when he does something like that. Now you can't act natural around this guy for a couple days, and that really messes your team morale up."

O'Neal: "Westbrook is one of the leaders of this team and in order to be a great leader you have to be a great listener. He messed up. Sefolosha's right. Sefolosha's man doubled down with five seconds (left on the shot clock). He should have kicked it out. That's smart basketball. Sefolosha said, 'yo, pass the ball.' He got upset. He's wrong. He knows he's wrong. Move on."

Barkley: "I don't think he knows he's wrong or he wouldn't be acting like that. Listen, Maurice Cheeks and my man Scott Brooks got to handle this. This has been going on for years now. But now they're an elite team. It's championship or bust. And we said the same (thing), this is like the third year in a row we've said that.

"Just go back a couple years ago they were getting on his case. Then last year he played all right, then he shot too much in the Finals. And now we're in the middle of the season and at some point Scott and Maurice got to go, "Hey dude, you either got to grow up or we can't win a championship. Because.. when you have blowups like this, they only show up under pressure in big situations, and this is as regular-season game. Everybody's kind of chillin' getting ready for the All-Star break. This thing is going to show it's ugly head deep in the playoffs if they don't .. they've got to handle this."

My own personal opinion has always been that Westbrook is selfish with the ball...especially in "crunch-time". But I also see that he is surrounded by a bunch of untalented shooters...while the "MVP" chants come pouring from the rafters. He sometimes takes wild shots at critical times...probably because he thinks his "wild" shot has a better chance of going in than his teammate's "better" shot.

Yes...he is no "team player". But the real question is..."Does OKC win more games with Russell taking fewer shots?"...and that isn't an easy question to answer. In any case...the Thunder were short on talent this year, and the West is loaded...so, your comment of "Let's see how far his team goes into the playoffs" seems unfair. The Thunder weren't going anywhere in the playoffs this year...and we can't pin that on Russell Westbrook.

[ElKabong]

Empty calories. "Somebody has to score the points" as has been said

He's had a chance to win a title along side players like Harden and Durant. Somehow that didn't work out. Locker room issues as mentioned in that clip? Maybe, maybe not. Fact is the deal wasn't closed. But heck, the guy sure can run up stats after they leave, can't he....

It is what it is. He's no champion.

[PressThePace]

Here's some commentary from some of his teammates:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2681568-russell-westbrooks-teammates-swear-by-his-impact

Look, I'm only having fun with this because anyone can get a few links to back up a claim. We all have opinions. I won't comment anymore on this, but I believe Westbrook is an insanely talented player playing with a roster that is not suited to his game. We won't really know until the current roster changes significantly. Now...I also think that he has some flaws that he must overcome (being a good teammate is not one of them...teammates get into it all of the time). To me, he has to realize he can't beat the other team all by himself. But again, I believe that part of him is a product of extreme confidence and competitive spirit, not because he is a selfish player. I've watched him celebrate his teammates success on the floor and from the sidelines.

[cj]

Empty calories. "Somebody has to score the points" as has been said

He's had a chance to win a title along side players like Harden and Durant. Somehow that didn't work out. Locker room issues as mentioned in that clip? Maybe, maybe not. Fact is the deal wasn't closed. But heck, the guy sure can run up stats after they leave, can't he....

It is what it is. He's no champion.

Somehow that didn't work out?

They were all like 22 when they made the Finals. NBA teams like that don't win the Finals, like ever. It just doesn't happen.

Harden was traded before the next season. They were plagued by some pretty fluke injuries after that. First Westbrook, then Durant, then Ibaka. Would they have won any of those years? Who knows? They were the favorites the first year after the Harden trade before Beverley's cheap shot took at Russ.

Last year when healthy they were very, very close to eliminating a team that won 73 games. Westbrook didn't play great in G6 at home, he was just ok, but Durant was downright terrible.

Most guys that play in the NBA aren't "champions". I think a majority of franchises haven't even won a title. Putting that on one player is silly. It is a team game. Does the fact Durant stunk up the joint when it mattered most then ran away to join a team that pretty much can't lose make him a champion? I find that laughable.

[ElKabong]

You provided very good communication here, really enjoyed it. In all due respect I'll lean towards past performances of his teams (when they had super talent, and when they didn't) as well as some charachter issues brought up by all stars like Smith, Shaq, and Barkley on specific incidents. I believe those comments are correct and applicable

[cj]

You provided very good communication here, really enjoyed it. In all due respect I'll lean towards past performances of his teams (when they had super talent, and when they didn't) as well as some charachter issues brought up by all stars like Smith, Shaq, and Barkley on specific incidents. I believe those comments are correct and applicable

That is fair, but I also think he has grown up quite a bit and changed. The guys you mentioned have all taken note this season. KD was pretty much the leader of the team until he left. Russ stepped up and grew up IMO. Without him, they are a 15 win team. That is pretty impressive to me.

As for the no class, your definition applies to 98% of the NBA. I sit pretty close to the court and I hear that language and worse 75-100 times a game. I guess after 23 years in the military and having grown up in Baltimore I'm pretty immune to it---doesn't bother me at all.

[EasyGoer89]

I have debated with CJ earlier...and I've stated that I think the MVP should be given to Harden. When I used the word "hate", I used it as the opposite of "like"...just as a fan sometimes says "I like this team, and I hate this one". "Hate", when used to describe teams or athletes, doesn't necessarily mean that there is any personally-directed animosity involved. Sometimes it just means that we "dislike" a player's on-field performance. When we "hate" a player...we sometimes make comments such as this:



And when we do, it shows strong "dislike"...and not "indifference". IMO, of course.

Totally correct, Elka shows this is deeply personal, it's affected him in a very personal way. Great post.

[ElKabong]

Totally correct, Elka shows this is deeply personal, it's affected him in a very personal way. Great post.

Autism (and aspergers) is a terrible thing. You need to get that checked out.

This board has so many posters that receive others posts in a completely opposite manner than originally offered. A poor piece of judgement, I can't help you there, buddy. No hate here, just telling you like it is

[Valuist]

Kawhi won't win the MVP but he deserves to be right there with Westbrook and Harden. If I had to pick one guy on my team for both ends of the floor, it's hard to go wrong with Leonard (yes, I know Russ can defend pretty good as well).

Two years from now, the best player in the NBA won't be named Lebron, Steph, Russell, Harden or Kawhi. It will be the Greek Freak.

[cj]

Kawhi won't win the MVP but he deserves to be right there with Westbrook and Harden. If I had to pick one guy on my team for both ends of the floor, it's hard to go wrong with Leonard (yes, I know Russ can defend pretty good as well).

Two years from now, the best player in the NBA won't be named Lebron, Steph, Russell, Harden or Kawhi. It will be the Greek Freak.

Kawhi is one of the top 5 players in the league. Some of his success is probably directly attributable to the coach and the system, but he has really improved by leaps and bounds. If I had my pick of one guy to start a team right now, he's the guy.

The Freak is obviously very talented. but I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 3 player, maybe even top 5. He's already been in the league for four years. Compare where he is to where KD, Russ, Harden, LeBron, Kawhi, etc. were at that point in their careers. He just isn't on that level. He didn't start playing basketball until he was in his teens and that gap is tough to overcome against NBA stars that have been playing their entire life.

[EasyGoer89]

Autism (and aspergers) is a terrible thing. You need to get that checked out.

This board has so many posters that receive others posts in a completely opposite manner than originally offered. A poor piece of judgement, I can't help you there, buddy. No hate here, just telling you like it is

This post just proves you've been affected personally, making fun of autism isn't exactly my idea of a person not affected personally, your posts indicate you've been affected, why take shots at me for pointing out the truth?

Work on becoming a better person, life will be more enjoyable.

[ElKabong]

This post just proves you've been affected personally, making fun of autism isn't exactly my idea of a person not affected personally, your posts indicate you've been affected, why take shots at me for pointing out the truth?

Work on becoming a better person, life will be more enjoyable.

Life is great, never been better. I'm in a position now in life where I work when I want, travel a great deal to the coast and relax. Don't check in here on a daily basis, haven't for some time now.

Like I said, you can't read the situation clearly. If that's making fun of you in your mind... again, seek treatment. I feel sorry for you, having to choose an avatar of Jesus to get attention.

Ciao buddy, i'm pulling for ya

back to the topic and away from heel nipping poodle action... I agree with Valuist about Leonard. Not much to add to that post of his

[cj]

Alright, you've both had your say, no more off topic stuff like the last few. I can't allow any mucking up of a thread about Russ's greatness. :)