Andy Serling quote :)

[atlasaxis]

"Saratoga is not the graveyard of favorites. It's the graveyard of bad handicappers." Andy Serling today on Talking Horses

[ReplayRandall]

"Saratoga is not the graveyard of favorites. It's the graveyard of bad handicappers." Andy Serling today on Talking Horses

+1 for Andy...

[PhantomOnTour]

Tell me - which track ISN'T the graveyard of bad handicappers?

[ReplayRandall]

Tell me - which track ISN'T the graveyard of bad handicappers?

It's especially prominent at Saratoga.....

[thaskalos]

Then I must be one of the worst handicappers around.

[ReplayRandall]

Then I must be one of the worst handicappers around.

I'm sorry......It doesn't make you a bad person, though...:cool:

[EMD4ME]

I'm sorry......It doesn't make you a bad person, though...:cool:

I sorely missed you and thaskalos. Comedic and witty gold!

[mannyberrios]

I'm sorry......It doesn't make you a bad person, though...:cool:
That was great

[Nitro]

"Saratoga is not the graveyard of favorites. It's the graveyard of bad handicappers." Andy Serling today on Talking Horses
So, can we assume from Andy’s humble comment that he may in fact be feeling some notions of grandeur? Perhaps he supposes that if everyone consistently listened to him and his crew’s pre-race commentary that all these so-called “bad handicappers” would suddenly turn their luck around and all become instant winners.

Sorry I don’t buy it, because its just not that simple.
The general concept of “handicapping” is often misleading because it has to include playing selections properly. Of course these sort of analysts typically neglect to mention the betting aspects of the game. These are the realities faced by outsiders not only trying to dissect and predict a race’s outcome, but also with expectations of eventually being rewarded

While their program may seem entertaining for some, I really don’t see much difference between its overall content and other similar productions. Entertainment can be enjoyable for a fan, but it just doesn’t cut it when you’re sincere about trying to profit from a highly volatile and dynamic game. I feel that the real fun in this game is achieving a degree of personal satisfaction from not just making amble selections, but primarily from attempting to play them properly when called for.

As much as I enjoy sharing some decent pre-race selections, I’m really not concerned with how others might be doing as far as playing or profiting from them. Based on many race track experiences with friends and family, and hearing similar stories, it seems that the majority of people (at any level of expertise) playing this game would rather win or lose on their own accord, no matter how profound the information they’re given might be.

[EMD4ME]

Nitro. I have to say, that was one of your more intellectually stimulating posts and I enjoyed reading it.

With that said: what makes you think Andy meant that? I didn't hear his quote live so I dont know.

Final thought.

I love stubborn horseplayers. Keep betting baby!

[NY BRED]

"Saratoga is not the graveyard of favorites. It's the graveyard of bad handicappers." Andy Serling today on Talking Horses


I believe TLG is stating the informed and newbies to the game
target value bets as against strictly betting the favorite.

Sure, in many cases the favorite makes sense when betting
the pick 6/5/3/ or doubles in isolated cases.

Generally, the newbies to the game bet the morning line favorite,
not understanding why this line is included in the program.

[Robert Fischer]

It's a great quote, and it's what makes the Saratoga meet so great.


Every time you see a Laoban or an Arrogate win, and you passed over them, and questioned your own pattern recognition, because 'the crowd' didn't include those horses as legitimate win contenders, - it humbles you as a player.

When you have quality fields for quality purses, there are going to be some patterns or models that occur that are going to lead to some prices winning and some favorites having adversity. Sheep are going to get slaughtered.

[castaway01]

So, can we assume from Andy’s humble comment that he may in fact be feeling some notions of grandeur? Perhaps he supposes that if everyone consistently listened to him and his crew’s pre-race commentary that all these so-called “bad handicappers” would suddenly turn their luck around and all become instant winners.

Sorry I don’t buy it, because its just not that simple.
The general concept of “handicapping” is often misleading because it has to include playing selections properly. Of course these sort of analysts typically neglect to mention the betting aspects of the game. These are the realities faced by outsiders not only trying to dissect and predict a race’s outcome, but also with expectations of eventually being rewarded

While their program may seem entertaining for some, I really don’t see much difference between its overall content and other similar productions. Entertainment can be enjoyable for a fan, but it just doesn’t cut it when you’re sincere about trying to profit from a highly volatile and dynamic game. I feel that the real fun in this game is achieving a degree of personal satisfaction from not just making amble selections, but primarily from attempting to play them properly when called for.

As much as I enjoy sharing some decent pre-race selections, I’m really not concerned with how others might be doing as far as playing or profiting from them. Based on many race track experiences with friends and family, and hearing similar stories, it seems that the majority of people (at any level of expertise) playing this game would rather win or lose on their own accord, no matter how profound the information they’re given might be.

You're shoveling an awful lot of unrelated crap here for a one-line quote that horseplayers bet too much on bad favorites. Thanks for letting us know that "entertainment can be enjoyable" though.

[the little guy]

You're shoveling an awful lot of unrelated crap here for a one-line quote that horseplayers bet too much on bad favorites. Thanks for letting us know that "entertainment can be enjoyable" though.

It's endlessly amusing how often posters I have on ignore ( that would be Nitro in this case ) never seem to fail to disappoint when I see what they post ( Vic is good at this too ).

For those interested in the truth, every time I have used the Saratoga-Bad Handicappers line, I attribute it to the source....Harvey Pack. It's a joke, and always delivered as such.

[castaway01]

It's endlessly amusing how often posters I have on ignore ( that would be Nitro in this case ) never seem to fail to disappoint when I see what they post ( Vic is good at this too ).

For those interested in the truth, every time I have used the Saratoga-Bad Handicappers line, I attribute it to the source....Harvey Pack. It's a joke, and always delivered as such.

I think most of us knew that, but others have their agendas. I should make better use of "ignore" too.

[the little guy]

I think most of us knew that, but others have their agendas. I should make better use of "ignore" too.

It's a gift, no doubt:-)

[aaron]

It's endlessly amusing how often posters I have on ignore ( that would be Nitro in this case ) never seem to fail to disappoint when I see what they post ( Vic is good at this too ).

For those interested in the truth, every time I have used the Saratoga-Bad Handicappers line, I attribute it to the source....Harvey Pack. It's a joke, and always delivered as such.
I remember that quote from Harvey. Also,my favorite Harvey quote was to never bet a short priced favorite to do something,he has never done before. For anyone interested,Harvey is on DRF video's during Saratoga and is as funny and sharp as ever.
As for the racing show,I think,they have done a real good job. It is not easy to do 21/2 hours of racing each day. I also agree that you should make your own picks,but that doesn't mean you can't pick up some little nugget from the show.The one thing you should have picked up was to not bet the favorite in the Travers. I didn't see their picks,but would be surprised if any of them picked the favorite.

[Nitro]

Nitro. I have to say, that was one of your more intellectually stimulating posts and I enjoyed reading it.

With that said: what makes you think Andy meant that? I didn't hear his quote live so I dont know.

Final thought.

I love stubborn horseplayers. Keep betting baby!I’m glad you enjoyed it!

As I mentioned in my opening line, I “assumed” from his comment that he was suggesting that perhaps it would be beneficial for these so-called “bad-handicappers” to tune into their program in order to become enlightened. I also offered my opinion as to what the majority of players prefer to do even when they’re handed good information.

Apparently my comments struck a cord somewhere, because just a simple explanation as to why such a presumptuous comment was made in the first place might have been offered. Perhaps it was all in jest, but some people like Atlasaxis (who started this thread) may have thought otherwise.

I will say that Andy’s humble response to my comment only further demonstrates an aloof attitude which validates my disregard for their form of entertainment.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I've developed my own quote that ought to rival Andy's... You can quote me on it if you want, who knows, Vigors may receive national attention :cool:

OK here goes...Racetracks are the graveyards of people who are bad at math....

[EMD4ME]

I’m glad you enjoyed it!

As I mentioned in my opening line, I “assumed” from his comment that he was suggesting that perhaps it would be beneficial for these so-called “bad-handicappers” to tune into their program in order to become enlightened. I also offered my opinion as to what the majority of players prefer to do even when they’re handed good information.

Apparently my comments struck a cord somewhere, because just a simple explanation as to why such a presumptuous comment was made in the first place might have been offered. Perhaps it was all in jest, but some people like Atlasaxis (who started this thread) may have thought otherwise.

I will say that Andy’s humble response to my comment only further demonstrates an aloof attitude which validates my disregard for their form of entertainment.

I just realized what you meant and more importantly "why". I thought your post was innocent and thought provoking. Now I see it's about TLG.

Please, leave me out of it.

[Mulerider]

I've developed my own quote that ought to rival Andy's... You can quote me on it if you want, who knows, Vigors may receive national attention :cool:

OK here goes...Racetracks are the graveyards of people who are bad at math....

And a variation thereof: State lotteries are a tax on people who are bad at math.

[Big Peps]

I think most of us knew that, but others have their agendas. I should make better use of "ignore" too.

Exactly, a joke imagine that!!!... as Sgt Hulka says, Lighten up Frances.

[VigorsTheGrey]

And a variation thereof: State lotteries are a tax on people who are bad at math.

Agreed....not only do lottery players not understand the nearly impossible odds against hitting the thing, they secretly entertain the idea that THEY can win it...after all, somebody will, and it IS just as easily hit by them AS ANYBODY ELSE, right? A strange but deceptive kind of logic that lottery marketing plays into...but it functions well as a complete and, for the most part, utter fantasy...at least in horse racing, buying winning tickets is far, far, more frequent, favorites winning or not....so I'd much rather be whistling through the graveyard of bad handicapping happily contented with my occasional victories, than keeping alive the spark of a hope that will never see the light of day...but alas, hope springs eternal, right?

[AndyC]

Agreed....not only do lottery players not understand the nearly impossible odds against hitting the thing, they secretly entertain the idea that THEY can win it...after all, somebody will, and it IS just as easily hit by them AS ANYBODY ELSE, right? A strange but deceptive kind of logic that lottery marketing plays into...but it functions well as a complete and, for the most part, utter fantasy...at least in horse racing, buying winning tickets is far, far, more frequent, favorites winning or not....so I'd much rather be whistling through the graveyard of bad handicapping happily contented with my occasional victories, than keeping alive the spark of a hope that will never see the light of day...but alas, hope springs eternal, right?

The lottery players may not understand the impossible odds but at least they don't spend hours handicapping before losing their money. It's really hard to knock lottery players in that horseplayers are fighting the almost insurmountable takeout. For many bettors it is deceptive logic vs. fantasy logic.

[VigorsTheGrey]

The lottery players may not understand the impossible odds but at least they don't spend hours handicapping before losing their money. It's really hard to knock lottery players in that horseplayers are fighting the almost insurmountable takeout. For many bettors it is deceptive logic vs. fantasy logic.

Good point and you are quite correct! It is amazing how many hours I spend piddling away my life on this silly game AND how thorough I am in the fine art of self-deceptive logic....I guess i just can't find anything better to do or that is more interesting to me...I know, I am a real degenerate...but at least I don't drink...anymore...but I admit there is an addictive quality to this game that I haven't quite figured out yet....they say it is the sport of kings...do you think that maybe underneath it all, that I am just a king who is obsessed with my sport? ;)

[EMD4ME]

Good point and you are quite correct! It is amazing how many hours I spend piddling away my life on this silly game AND how thorough I am in the fine art of self-deceptive logic....I guess i just can't find anything better to do or that is more interesting to me...I know, I am a real degenerate...but at least I don't drink...anymore...but I admit there is an addictive quality to this game that I haven't quite figured out yet....they say it is the sport of kings...do you think that maybe underneath it all, that I am just a king who is obsessed with my sport? ;)

To me, it's the sport of mental stimulation. Constant mental stimulation.

[burnsy]

To me, it's the sport of mental stimulation. Constant mental stimulation.

For sure, totally agree. But the people around it (this game) are interesting too. I never have put anyone on "ignore". I would not even know how to because I don't care what they say. I like reading everyone, even the clueless. Its social studies for me. Some of these people can't form an original thought or opinion and stand by it. Or they regurgitate what they see and hear on TV. This is true even in the political nonsense threads. People like that have no business winning at gambling, but its great amusement. I never "ignore", its laughable, you can learn how people think even if its got zero originality and for some reason it never gets boring. In fact, some times I shake my head in amazement..... :) People should lighten up. Look at the people that work and play at the track, its a hoot!

[PaceAdvantage]

I’m glad you enjoyed it!

As I mentioned in my opening line, I “assumed” from his comment that he was suggesting that perhaps it would be beneficial for these so-called “bad-handicappers” to tune into their program in order to become enlightened. I also offered my opinion as to what the majority of players prefer to do even when they’re handed good information.

Apparently my comments struck a cord somewhere, because just a simple explanation as to why such a presumptuous comment was made in the first place might have been offered. Perhaps it was all in jest, but some people like Atlasaxis (who started this thread) may have thought otherwise.

I will say that Andy’s humble response to my comment only further demonstrates an aloof attitude which validates my disregard for their form of entertainment.Actually, the whole thing seems like it flew right over your head. The meaning of Andy's line escaped you, but didn't stop you from spinning it around.

[VigorsTheGrey]

To me, it's the sport of mental stimulation. Constant mental stimulation.

...And the fact that we can forget about all of the other things that we think about while we are engaged in handicapping, watching, reviewing, constructing tickets, etc,. It's that act of temporarily forgetting everything else while we focus on the sport that is what makes it "relaxing" for us...other people do this in other ways like meditation, etc,....

It is hard for people outside the sport to understand us....most of them, i'm sure, just think we are "gamblers" and no doubt have "secret reservations" (read "misgivings") about the merits of our handicapping activities....plus it is a completely foreign language to most outsiders...it is great to have a place to converse with people who understand the nomenclature of the sport...

[Nitro]

Actually, the whole thing seems like it flew right over your head. The meaning of Andy's line escaped you, but didn't stop you from spinning it around.
Why would it stop me from posting an opinion? It could have escaped anyone, especially since he failed to respond to the initial opening post on this thread. You obviously missed the order of the responses on this thread and when he came forward. His comment could have been interpreted any number of ways without an explanation. I simply responded to what I thought was quite a pompous statement coming from someone in his position with the NYRA. If that’s the way he wants to represent his program so be it, but I was completely unaware of his portrayal of this comment as being some sort of a joke and I believe the thread author may have felt the same way.

[PaceAdvantage]

I expect better from Karnac...