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CosmicWon
07-06-2016, 11:58 AM
Never been able to find the answer but I've wondered for years--does anyone know if there is a way to see if a horse drew into an off the turf race as a Main Track Only horse in either the PPs or in charts? (Without keeping the PPs for the race in question obvi)

I've never seen it denoted in the running lines of any PPs/Sheets and almost certain I haven't seen "MTO" anywhere in charts unless a horse scratches as a Main Track Only.

I ask because sometimes I want to know if a horse won an off the turf race because it drew in as MTO or because it's a "turf" horse who also has ability on on dirt but can't ever find the MTO denotation after the race has been run.

Help?

arw629
07-06-2016, 12:36 PM
It wpuld be an easy add too...in comment line just add mto after the comment .....for exampke ....."much the best MTO"

castaway01
07-06-2016, 12:39 PM
Never been able to find the answer but I've wondered for years--does anyone know if there is a way to see if a horse drew into an off the turf race as a Main Track Only horse in either the PPs or in charts? (Without keeping the PPs for the race in question obvi)

I've never seen it denoted in the running lines of any PPs/Sheets and almost certain I haven't seen "MTO" anywhere in charts unless a horse scratches as a Main Track Only.

I ask because sometimes I want to know if a horse won an off the turf race because it drew in as MTO or because it's a "turf" horse who also has ability on on dirt but can't ever find the MTO denotation after the race has been run.

Help?
I am not saying it shouldn't be added (personally I don't find it at all important) but here's a chance for you to have information that most people don't have. Keep track of them yourself and you have the data advantage, whatever that may be.

TheOracle
07-06-2016, 06:04 PM
Never been able to find the answer but I've wondered for years--does anyone know if there is a way to see if a horse drew into an off the turf race as a Main Track Only horse in either the PPs or in charts? (Without keeping the PPs for the race in question obvi)

I've never seen it denoted in the running lines of any PPs/Sheets and almost certain I haven't seen "MTO" anywhere in charts unless a horse scratches as a Main Track Only.

I ask because sometimes I want to know if a horse won an off the turf race because it drew in as MTO or because it's a "turf" horse who also has ability on on dirt but can't ever find the MTO denotation after the race has been run.

Help?


Hey Cosmic,

I started to try to keep track of the MTO's last year then I decided not to do it but now I wish I had continued to track them since it would have been interesting to see how often they won or even hit the board if they entered the race.

That's a great angle I wish I had thought of it last year.

Here is what I came across before I stopped looking at the MTO's last year


http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/mtosbellstyr.jpg


From what I could find these horses did get scratched last year I don't think they drew in as a Turf to Dirt switch.

I will start checking these for 2016 at Belmont

whodoyoulike
07-06-2016, 08:54 PM
... I ask because sometimes I want to know if a horse won an off the turf race because it drew in as MTO or because it's a "turf" horse who also has ability on on dirt but can't ever find the MTO denotation after the race has been run.

Help?

I've never kept track but an interesting angle. There would be a few other things to consider in this situation because if it won or does well it would also mean the horse can handle an off track etc.

But, isn't it usually a horse who has never or is not considered a turf horse and the trainer is hoping for a MTO race?

arw629
07-07-2016, 12:59 AM
I think it is very important to know if the horse was listed as MTO ....let's say there's a promising young horse who just won 2 races in a row in races taken off the turf .....his next 3 races are dirt races and he runs respectable 3rds and 4ths but doesn't win ....a month later he is entered in a grass race and not listed as an MTO....i would want to know if the other 2 races if he was an MTO or not ...if he was an MTO I make the assumption that the trainer thought higher of the horse on the dirt and this upcoming grass race is an experiment ...this would make.me less likely to bet the horse ....however if the horse was not MTO in those races it makes me think the trainer thought of him as a grass horse first and I would be more likely to.bet and might get a decent price .....lots of thought here and no data to back up but I try to put myself in the trainer's head when I handicap

classhandicapper
07-07-2016, 10:08 AM
I have that data available, but I rarely use it.

You can see if a race was off the turf in the PPs. You can also see the horse's overall record. So you will usually know everything you need to know about the horse anyway.

IMO, the ones that may be interesting are the lightly raced horses. Then whether the horse was entered as an MTO or to run on grass may tell you something about what the connections think of the horse BEFORE everyone can see it in the PPs. That could be more valuable.

I never studied it, but I saw an example recently. I can't recall the horse's name, but he had a huge win in an OTT race in his last race (one of his first few starts). So I was asking myself, why did they even bother entering this horse on the turf if he's really that good on dirt. When I looked it up, I saw that he was an MTO that day. Then I knew they saw it as a good DIRT spot in case it came off and they weren't even thinking about turf. The horse turned out to be really good.

TheOracle
07-08-2016, 12:37 AM
Never been able to find the answer but I've wondered for years--does anyone know if there is a way to see if a horse drew into an off the turf race as a Main Track Only horse in either the PPs or in charts? (Without keeping the PPs for the race in question obvi)

I've never seen it denoted in the running lines of any PPs/Sheets and almost certain I haven't seen "MTO" anywhere in charts unless a horse scratches as a Main Track Only.

I ask because sometimes I want to know if a horse won an off the turf race because it drew in as MTO or because it's a "turf" horse who also has ability on on dirt but can't ever find the MTO denotation after the race has been run.

Help?

Hey Cosmic,

This is what I was able to find from the MTO's for 2016 at Belmont that were not scratched and eventually ran into their respective races for the month of May.

It seems there was only 1 winner, 3 place finishers and 3 show finishers so 7 hit the board out of the 13 that were entered to run in May at Belmont as MTO's.


http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/mtosbellthsyr.jpg

For me, when looking at it as it relates to Belmont, it may not be worth the effort to examine the occurrences since only half of them hit the board and the prices were pretty small this year.

However, maybe past years at Belmont or the other New York tracks may yield different results but so far it doesn't look like it's worth the effort.


Maybe others can see something different at other tracks.

TheOracle
07-12-2016, 08:44 PM
I missed an MTO on May 4th, Seve but he ran off the board on that day I see that he came back for G Contessa and ran 4th this past Sunday.

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/mtosbelmore.jpg

TheOracle
07-13-2016, 12:32 AM
In all, 7 hit the board out of the 14 that were entered to run at Belmont as MTO's and they were all in the month of May as I didn't see any days in June that were sloppy or July that are sloppy.

Out of the 7 that hit the board there was only 1 winner.