BETFAIR JOKE IN RUNNING

[Wonderlander]

Wow they have sunk to a new low. No interest at all in making the in play, playable. Odds are all low if anything. Another great part of the site for customers. Bet well the race is on.. as long as u want to take 2-1 on a 10-1 after 10 secs into the race and 1.01 at the top of the stretch. WTF is that?

[Wonderlander]

what they do is they blink fake odds once in awhile but dont keep them long enough for anyone to match. Like 1/10 of a sec.

[Dave Schwartz]

I wish them well, but doubt that it will be what people hope for it to be.

[cj]

I think you might not be understanding the prices correctly, i.e. they aren't the same as # to 1 odds, but since I'm not in New Jersey I can't confirm.

[Pensacola Pete]

Wow they have sunk to a new low. No interest at all in making the in play, playable. Odds are all low if anything. Another great part of the site for customers. Bet well the race is on.. as long as u want to take 2-1 on a 10-1 after 10 secs into the race and 1.01 at the top of the stretch. WTF is that?


It's called an "in play" wager; you can bet races and sporting events after they have started. Such wagers are banned in Australia, as the government feels that they're too addicting. All Australian-licensed sports books (most also carry fixed odds on racing) are barred from offering such bets, and betting exchanges (i.e. Betfair) are barred from allowing them to be accessed by Australian customers.

[davew]

Wow they have sunk to a new low. No interest at all in making the in play, playable. Odds are all low if anything. Another great part of the site for customers. Bet well the race is on.. as long as u want to take 2-1 on a 10-1 after 10 secs into the race and 1.01 at the top of the stretch. WTF is that?

Well, why don't you play the other side and lay the horses?

There are people who use computer programs to induce bad bets. It is difficult to get away from betting 1 horse to win - few people can handle betting all horses to lose,

[Zaf]

I think you might not be understanding the prices correctly, i.e. they aren't the same as # to 1 odds, but since I'm not in New Jersey I can't confirm.

Can anyone comment how the exchange wagering is working out in Jersey ? Haven't heard much about it.

Z

[pandy]

I was a Betfair customer years ago before our gov't blocked us, in this free country. It was great, but there are always going to be people that don't like good things. Heck, there are people that don't like ice cream.

[castaway01]

I think you might not be understanding the prices correctly, i.e. they aren't the same as # to 1 odds, but since I'm not in New Jersey I can't confirm.

This guy's only posts are to complain you can't get good odds during the running of the race. He doesn't seem to understand that if you can find a bet on the horse up by 3 lengths halfway through the race, you're going to get 1-50 odds. I've gotten bets down at that point, and it's usually something where you win pennies on the dollar. It's not a conspiracy; people just aren't stupid enough to give a price on an obvious winner.

[castaway01]

Can anyone comment how the exchange wagering is working out in Jersey ? Haven't heard much about it.

Z

I watched an interview with a Betfair management guy, and he said they're very pleased with the numbers. They claimed it brought a lot of people to the NJBets site who hadn't used it before or hadn't used it in several years. They didn't give any hard numbers though.

As far as how it's working in a literal sense, the times I've used the site I haven't had any problems with it. I've been pleasantly surprised. To be honest, it's pretty great. If you want good win prices, you can often get double the eventual final track odds. The big drawback is that they haven't been able to convince most major tracks to join, so if you don't like places like Prairie Meadows, Woodbine, or Charles Town (or of course Monmouth and the Meadowlands) you're out of luck.

[pandy]

He's the guy who started the TVG disgraceful thread. Yeah, that sucks, two TV channels that show horse races all day and night 365 days a year. One of the few dreams of mine that actually came true. I remember many afternoons leaving Aqueduct and getting on the parking lot they call the Belt Pkwy, taking an hour to drive the 20 miles home.

Betfair can be an awesome thing. Hopefully the rest of the racing establishment will climb aboard, but unfortunately the industry is slow to change.

[upthecreek]

He's absolutely right about that They claim to be America's horse racing network, and all the want is for you to keep pushing $ thru their ADW
Their TV coverage SUCKS
Most of their hosts SUCK
They never ,ever address or mention any problems in racing,like the Tam/GP issue,cheating trainers and crooked jockeys
Customer service is terrible ,Derby Day Fiasco,I haven't been able to access TVG 2 HD on the 4NJbets website since the Derby and they've done nothing to correct it
TVG :ThmbDown:

[upthecreek]

Forgot to mention TVG was forced to show part of the Queens Plate in a double box Why? Because the 9th @ GP was going off @ the same time WTF?
And GP delayed the start of the 9th by at least 5 mins and started loading as soon as WO did
I'm sure it was planned

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Betfair in running is a joke because on track players have an advantage of several seconds over those watching on TV. This is why liquidity is poor and falling on in running all over the place

Having said that, there is nothing to stop a player asking for 10-1 or 12-1 or even 100-1 on a 10-1 shot. If the best price offered by the layers is 2-1 on a 10-1 shot you don't have to accept this but can request any price you like up to 1000-1. No guarantee your order will be filled but sometimes it will be

Horses hitting 1.01 at the top of the stretch might be due to the delay as top of the stretch on TV would likely mean the horses are close to the finish line at the track

[Dave Schwartz]

I watched an interview with a Betfair management guy, and he said they're very pleased with the numbers. They claimed it brought a lot of people to the NJBets site who hadn't used it before or hadn't used it in several years. They didn't give any hard numbers though.

That's wonderful. I really root for an alternative to what we have, if for no other reason that it may motivate tracks to take notice of the problems.

Not sure how we get an exotics-oriented customer base to concentrate only on win bets, but will try to keep an open mind.

:ThmbUp:

[Pensacola Pete]

I wish Betfair could operate unfettered in this country for Australian, and U.K. races. They already have healthy markets for each in other countries; the only difference would be that U.S. residents could access those markets.

[olddaddy]

How can someone play a in race wager when there is broadcast delay? Arent the delays at least 10 seconds?

[fmolf]

Forgot to mention TVG was forced to show part of the Queens Plate in a double box Why? Because the 9th @ GP was going off @ the same time WTF?
And GP delayed the start of the 9th by at least 5 mins and started loading as soon as WO did
I'm sure it was planned
I love when they show the 4th from golden gate live(5 horse field)over a 100k overnight stakes from Belmont or Tampa....disgusting the way they cowtow to Cal. racing when their product stinks!(for the most part)......I have a feeling if it does catch on mainstream, that it will be harder to win! when the computer guys see enough value in it they will proceed computer algorithms to garner as mch of the value as is technologically possible...Just one mans opinion!Isn't that what happened in the pari-mutual pools?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I love when they show the 4th from golden gate live(5 horse field)over a 100k overnight stakes from Belmont or Tampa....disgusting the way they cowtow to Cal. racing when their product stinks!(for the most part?

...or maybe they get superior economics from Golden Gate to give their signal priority? just maybe?

[cj]

The delay is way too big for me to consider in race betting from home.

[olddaddy]

Its seems as though someone at the track, betting in race on a mobile device, could have quite an advantage depending on the broadcast delay.

[Zaf]

The delay is way too big for me to consider in race betting from home.

Agree I have watched races with friends from NJ to Nova Scotia over the phone. There have been delays on many occasions 10 seconds and more. I would love to have that edge if i was betting in race :)

Z

[castaway01]

I love when they show the 4th from golden gate live(5 horse field)over a 100k overnight stakes from Belmont or Tampa....disgusting the way they cowtow to Cal. racing when their product stinks!(for the most part)......I have a feeling if it does catch on mainstream, that it will be harder to win! when the computer guys see enough value in it they will proceed computer algorithms to garner as mch of the value as is technologically possible...Just one mans opinion!Isn't that what happened in the pari-mutual pools?

So your argument is that we shouldn't have any additional betting options because they might someday not be as profitable? :bang:

And what does the rest of the junk in your post have to do with the topic at hand?

[castaway01]

Its seems as though someone at the track, betting in race on a mobile device, could have quite an advantage depending on the broadcast delay.

That's no doubt true, which is why there is virtually no money "laid" on any horses once the race starts. I have found plenty of value with exchange wagering just betting before the race, but if you're expecting to sit down and clean up betting horses that jump out to a three-length lead, there's not going to be anyone taking the other side for you to bet with. I have to admit, while I see the frustration with the delay, that part of it seems like a fantasy world because even without the delay no one is going to bet against you on these obvious winners and losers.

[no breathalyzer]

The delay is way too big for me to consider in race betting from home.

If someone is actually doing this while watching on a tvg feed they should give up the game and seek help

[Dave Schwartz]

The delay is way too big for me to consider in race betting from home.

This is really the point, isn't it?

You are watching it somewhere. You perceive an early speed advantage. The only problem is that the advantage was first available 9 seconds ago (or whatever).

It is kind of like reading 1 week old stock charts and trying to capitalize on today's movement.

[Tom]

Yeah, and 6 seconds aqo your horse fell down.

[Fox]

Anybody putting a penny on inplay who is not at the event live is a fool.

The inplay for horseracing works better for the long turf races abroad.

Inplay for american dirt races will never ever get traction.

[Wonderlander]

What is wrong with u guys? Betfair Seeds the markets. Anyone who thinks different is a fool. They have every feed live at the track. They are marketing in play. They should be seeding the markets. But they dont because there cry babies who lost some money doing it, and are scared little girls.

[Wonderlander]

Not to mention they start closing races 200 yards from the wire or more. And dont tell me about the feed i know all about that. There pathetic. I havent seen piss poor liquidity like i have in a long time, even before the race. Not to mention off topic, they add tracks like Delta downs. Someone look at these races. They suspend the race way before post time. What bs is this.

[Wonderlander]

And with regards to TVG, they talk about the exchange at lengths and than oh lets go to gulf stream over monmouth. That Frank Stronic has some agreement, he wont allow his tracks on exchange but yet they prioritize his tracks to show live at TVG.

[BIG49010]

I believe in Europe, they have rooms of TV's that are the old fashion tube type close to the tracks, where people go just to capitalize on the people at home watching on Digital TV's with Satellite feed.

This isn't a new concept, and I agree based on everything I have read about Betfair, you are the bait for them the shark!

[highnote]

How can someone play a in race wager when there is broadcast delay? Arent the delays at least 10 seconds?

Do not bet in-running while watching on tv or internet.

I know of a group that bet in-running in England 15 or 20 years ago and had a direct satellite feed that was not delayed -- or it was delayed less than other tv feeds. They claimed to have made a million pounds (dollars) before they were shut off.

If you are at the track and can bet in-running then you should have a big advantage over people who are not at the track.

[highnote]

They suspend the race way before post time. What bs is this.

Suspending the betting before post time probably gives them time to lay off their bets in the pari-mutuel market.

They are smart enough to know that in order to create liquidity they have to seed the markets. They are smart enough to know how not to lose money.

As a bettor, you have to be smart enough to know how to win. You need to understand how the markets operate.

If you want to win on the exchanges, you have to learn to lay odds like a bookmaker and then balance your book so that no matter who wins, you win.

Learn everything you can about bookmaking. And then figure out if you are good enough to win enough to have a profit after you pay the rake.

[castaway01]

Suspending the betting before post time probably gives them time to lay off their bets in the pari-mutuel market.

They are smart enough to know that in order to create liquidity they have to seed the markets. They are smart enough to know how not to lose money.

As a bettor, you have to be smart enough to know how to win. You need to understand how the markets operate.

If you want to win on the exchanges, you have to learn to lay odds like a bookmaker and then balance your book so that no matter who wins, you win.

Learn everything you can about bookmaking. And then figure out if you are good enough to win enough to have a profit after you pay the rake.

They don't actually suspend bets way before post time, but there is very little liquidity once the race starts.

As far as how things are going so far, this Bloodhorse article says wagering is slow. I'm not sure why $1.2 million bet on seven tracks is that bad compared to $2.4 million in pari-mutuel wagers on every track 4NJBets offers, but that's what the article states.

Exchange Wagering thus Far (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/213240/slow-start-for-new-jersey-exchange-wagering?source=rss)

[djm1959]

anything that confusing isnt fun to me,,, ill take the regular wagering that we all have done forever.....im poor i think all tracks should 1$ bets on wps,,exacta,,dd, and keep the 10c supers ive won over 1000 just playing the same numbers at 10c straight,,,,

most i ever bet on a horse to win was 30$ and yes he won by 8 in the levy final in the 80s at roosevelt(my bill forwood
-sonny patterson)

yea im a cheapskate but i drink expensive beers,,lol

mmmm beer

[biggestal99]

They don't actually suspend bets way before post time, but there is very little liquidity once the race starts.

As far as how things are going so far, this Bloodhorse article says wagering is slow. I'm not sure why $1.2 million bet on seven tracks is that bad compared to $2.4 million in pari-mutuel wagers on every track 4NJBets offers, but that's what the article states.

Exchange Wagering thus Far (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/213240/slow-start-for-new-jersey-exchange-wagering?source=rss)

1.2 Million is great start.

why anyone would bet PM to win when they have the exchange?

I have placed exactly one PM win wager since Jersey X went live (10 to win on songbird at evens).

Maybe they aren't up to speed on the X or too old fashioned to learn new things.

Allan

[castaway01]

Unfortunately, the sleazeball aspect of dealing with the NJBets/Exchange people has been increasing. Big things like screwed up one of my withdrawals where they...well, I wish I knew, but basically they credited me with more money than I had, then got angry when I noticed and basically threatened how it had to be taken away from me. Guys, I didn't steal it, you screwed up. So that was fun. Then there's their "take our survey and we'll send you $10" deal. Fine, I'll take the survey, what's wrong with a free $10? Well, when they don't send it to you, that's not a good PR move. Then there are the cancelled racecards where you have to fight tooth and nail for a couple buck refund (I guess they figure most won't bother). The nickel-and-dime crap gets old fast.

Since I was on here extolling the virtues of the site, I've got to be honest and say the awful customer service has really been turning me off lately.

[biggestal99]

Unfortunately, the sleazeball aspect of dealing with the NJBets/Exchange people has been increasing. Big things like screwed up one of my withdrawals where they...well, I wish I knew, but basically they credited me with more money than I had, then got angry when I noticed and basically threatened how it had to be taken away from me. Guys, I didn't steal it, you screwed up. So that was fun. Then there's their "take our survey and we'll send you $10" deal. Fine, I'll take the survey, what's wrong with a free $10? Well, when they don't send it to you, that's not a good PR move. Then there are the cancelled racecards where you have to fight tooth and nail for a couple buck refund (I guess they figure most won't bother). The nickel-and-dime crap gets old fast.

Since I was on here extolling the virtues of the site, I've got to be honest and say the awful customer service has really been turning me off lately.

I took the survey yesterday and got my 10 bucks today. I have had zero problems. I suggest if you really have had a bad experience you contact the exchange manager, he,s been very helpful when I needed assistance. The customer service people are hit or miss, but top management really wants to help. I can give his contact information if you wish. Hit me up with a pm.

Allan

[castaway01]

Allan, I appreciate it, but the situation is already resolved. What happened was actually that I was trying to fund my exchange account by transferring money from the NJBETS account (for those not in NJ, that's how it works, you deposit money and then transfer between the two as you see fit). The transfer didn't go through, but then some glitch developed where the transfer was constantly pending and every time the transfer didn't go through, money would be added to my NJBETS account. So (hypothetically), I had $5000 in there and tried to transfer $1000 out. The next day I had $6000, then $7000, then $8000. It was all pretty funny---until they shut my account down for "suspicious activity"---activity that they themselves were doing. Then I had to deal with the phone calls and their customer service. I was expecting apologies, maybe a waived customer service fee or something for my days of bullshit with this, or maybe just a resolution, instead I got the "don't do anything else strange with your account" lecture from some tool on the phone. And of course I was not the one adding imaginary refunds to my own account, that was their automated error. So I don't care how well the exchange works, if I can't fund the account to play it from then to hell with it. I can lose my money elsewhere.

[highnote]

castaway, your experiences are the reason I will never use betfair and encourage others to be very careful.

Check out these two stories and it will give you an idea of what you're dealing with:

"Betfair Will Not Reveal Technical Glitch": http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/betfair-will-not-reveal-glitch-details/970383/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews

"Betfair Void 600,000,000 GBP Layer": http://sportstradinglife.com/2011/12/betfair-void-600-million-layer/

If betfair is providing liquidity to their own markets in order to encourage betting then it only makes sense that they will limit their liability. If they make a mistake or lose too much they can easily say there was a technical glitch, even if there wasn't. But if you or I were to make a mistake, too bad. The technical glitch argument won't work for us. We will lose.

[whodoyoulike]

There were a couple of threads and a number of posts about a year ago of the way Betfair had badly treated individuals and their betting accounts without recourse. Apparently, there is no governmental oversight of Betfair's operating methods in the UK but hopefully in the US it will be different.

[appistappis]

the inplay betting model might be the future for the nfl and nba to grow revenues.

[RobertCalifornia]

What are the takeouts at betfair? TVG always shows Betfair paying more, than pari-mutuel betting. Is this because takeouts are lower, or because TVG is showing the exceptions? In play wagering doesn't really appeal to me even if betting was without problems. I'm also not too enthusiastic about bots running the site. Not a NJ resident, so doesn't really affect me.

[steveb]

It's called an "in play" wager; you can bet races and sporting events after they have started. Such wagers are banned in Australia, as the government feels that they're too addicting. All Australian-licensed sports books (most also carry fixed odds on racing) are barred from offering such bets, and betting exchanges (i.e. Betfair) are barred from allowing them to be accessed by Australian customers.

i could(and did) bet in play on australian racing and i am in australia.
admittedly it's a long time since i have been interested in betting, but out of curiosity i just logged in, and it appears that i have that option still.

and apparently you can still bet racing if what is on their site is correct.......

Where can I bet In-Play on Racing?

Australia – All Thoroughbred (except Victorian jumps) & Harness win markets.
New Zealand – All Thoroughbred win markets.
International – Thoroughbred win markets across selected racing around the world.


.....it is just sports where it is not allowed, and i had never bet sports anyway.

[RobertCalifornia]

What take out rate does betfair use? The way TVG shows it, Betfair is always killing the pari-mutuels paying more by far. Does betfair give a cut to the tracks they take bets on?