Wanted Handicapping Book: See How They Run by Thomas Mccormick

[maddog42]

The full title is SEE HOW THEY RUN; A Guide to Financial Freedom at the Racetrack. The thread about Scott and his ability times got me to thinking about this book. I have coveted this book since Thaskalos put it in his top 3 handicapping books a couple years ago. It seems harder to find than i thought. I will pay $50 cash in addition to offering for trade(any 3) some of my handicapping books. Some books I have are:

Horse Racing Logic by Glendon Jones
Pace makes the Race by Dick Schmidt
All of the Beyer Books
Calibration Handicapping by Jim Lehane
Winning without thinking by Mordin
The Matchup by Jim Bradshaw
Precision :Statistical and mathematical methods in Horse Racing
Six Secrets of Successful Bettors
How will your Horse run Today?
Investing at the racetrack
The Handicappers Condition Book
The new Expert handicappers
Handicapping Speed
Expert Handicapping
Winning at the Races
Modern Pace Handicapping
Commonsense Betting
Blinkers Off by Fotias
The ABC's of Thoroughbred Handicapping
Typology of the Race Horse
The functional development of the Thoroughbred
Bet with the Best 2
The body Language of Horses by Ledbetter
PC tools for the Handicapper
Winning Thoroughbred Strategies by Mitchell
Thoroughbred Handicapping
Speed to Spare
Exotic Betting
The race for the Triple Crown
Class of the Field
Figure Handicapping by Quinn
Handicapping Magic

Some of these books are worth $50 or more. Including the $50 in cash, you could potentially get $200 or more in value. I want to be fair about this.

PM me any offers. I do not want to sell any of these books, only trade for the McCormick book. Thanks
PS I don't know the Pace Advantage rules about this so hopefully it will be ok.

[maddog42]

I'll run it up the flag pole one more time.

[whodoyoulike]

You've got a lot of books.

What year was that book published which you're seeking?

[maddog42]

You've got a lot of books.

What year was that book published which you're seeking?
I don't know. Maybe Thaskalos will answer that. This is a partial list of books. Some are duplicates. Calibration Handicapping sells for over $100 on Amazon.

[banacek]

I've got (scarily) pretty well all the books listed and another few dozen probably. Haven't bought any for ages..because there haven't really been any - Barry Meadow is supposed to have one out this year.

I bought See How They Run..must be 20+ years ago. It isn't a book as such..it was in a white binder...at least that's what I remember. Quite extensive..must be 150+ pages I would think. I picked up a few ideas from it, but obviously missed what thaskalos saw!

[maddog42]

I've got (scarily) pretty well all the books listed and another few dozen probably. Haven't bought any for ages..because there haven't really been any - Barry Meadow is supposed to have one out this year.

I bought See How They Run..must be 20+ years ago. It isn't a book as such..it was in a white binder...at least that's what I remember. Quite extensive..must be 150+ pages I would think. I picked up a few ideas from it, but obviously missed what thaskalos saw!

Thanks for the response Banacek. I keep getting more comments and PM's but still no book.

[whodoyoulike]

Thanks for the response Banacek. I keep getting more comments and PM's but still no book.

Have you tried the public library system in your city but, you'll probably need to provide them with more info?

[maddog42]

Have you tried the public library system in your city but, you'll probably need to provide them with more info?

I tried inter-library loan online. I have used this sight and local library before.

[BMeadow]

I reviewed See How They Run: A Guide To Financial Freedom At The Racetrack in the Sept. 1997 issue of Meadow's Racing Monthly. The book is 130 pages plus charts in looseleaf format, so it wouldn't be in any public library. Here is part of the review:

McCormick has some useful handicapping points to make.

Basically, he believes every selection needs to qualify on three elements which he calls fitness, class, and controlling factors.

McCormick recommends using velocity ratings to analyze the performance of thoroughbreds, breaking down each segment of a race. He’s certainly not the first to advocate this--I first read of this method in a book with a 1934 copyright date, and it probably was in use long before that--but he does include easy-to-read charts for each distance that remove much of the drudgery from these calculations.

He breaks each performance into a Velocity Form Rating (overall number) and a Velocity Class Rating (a number which takes into account how far behind the horse is at the second call). He then lists a number of form angles that he suggests using after you’ve calculated each horse’s numbers. One of them, for instance, is slow-fast-slow, meaning the horse’s second race back was its best. These are explained in detail.

McCormick also includes adjustments for different distances, different tracks, and the Racing Form variant for the race.

He then describes various angles and rules, though he says his method is not a system. Some of these can get complex, or perhaps incomprehensible. For instance, from Class Aspect for 1/8 Physical Form Angle (exactly as written):

"All raising in class must have finished 1st or a very close 2nd in the last race and adhere to Win & No Best Number rules. Last race winners must fit both the 1/8 and the Win angle to be a play."

Or this suggested play:

"Combined with any of these Physical Form Angles: Up & Good, Win & best Number, Win & No Best Number, Short E and Short Delay (plus) the last race VFR is 1.50 fast to 1.40 slow over the next to last race and the last VFR is .90 fast to 2.00 slow over the 3rd race back."

McCormick does give many examples of his angle plays, which helps. However, all the examples are out of context--only the pp’s of the winner are given--so it’s difficult to evaluate the accuracy of the analyses. And since there are no long-term stats, simply listing winning patterns doesn’t tell you whether they’re profitable patterns or they merely win every so often.

Fortunately, just about the time that all these angles and rules are starting to blur into one big morass, McCormick conveniently summarizes his angles (both positive and negative) on a single page (123). And most of them actually make sense.

[BMeadow]

The book was priced at $46. The address I had for McCormick in 1997 was:

Thomas McCormick, 5811 N.W. 87 Way, Tamarac, FL 33321

[maddog42]

The book was priced at $46. The address I had for McCormick in 1997 was:

Thomas McCormick, 5811 N.W. 87 Way, Tamarac, FL 33321

Thanks Barry

[maddog42]

The book was priced at $46. The address I had for McCormick in 1997 was:

Thomas McCormick, 5811 N.W. 87 Way, Tamarac, FL 33321

Hey Barry. When is your new book coming out?

[BMeadow]

Working on it. Later this year, I hope...

[Drifter1]

maddog>> I PM'd you regarding your offer.

[maddog42]

I made a deal last night with a pa member regarding the Mccormick book.
This PA thread can be closed or what ever. Thanks to everyone who responded. PA people have been very nice to me.

[tlinetrader]

Before closing the thread, still looking for the book myself. Have all three Scott books to trade as well as some others.

[Actor]

Have you tried the public library system in your city but, you'll probably need to provide them with more info?My wife is a retired college librarian. She says the Library of Congress does not have a copy.

[maddog42]

I have already made a deal for a copy of the Mccormick book, but I would like to give a little bit of help to others looking for this book. Barry Meadow was kind enough to give me his 1997 address.Using online white pages, I got the phone number for Mccormick in tamarac Florida. It was a Bell south landline and had been disconnected. A few years back I recall reading that Bell customers had shut down 40% of its land lines. No surprise there. Has anyone tried writing to this address lately? If not I will write myself and hope it is forwarded or lands in the hands of Mccormick. I believe there is at least one other copy of this book out there in PA land.

[atlasaxis]

I have already made a deal for a copy of the Mccormick book, but I would like to give a little bit of help to others looking for this book. Barry Meadow was kind enough to give me his 1997 address.Using online white pages, I got the phone number for Mccormick in tamarac Florida. It was a Bell south landline and had been disconnected. A few years back I recall reading that Bell customers had shut down 40% of its land lines. No surprise there. Has anyone tried writing to this address lately? If not I will write myself and hope it is forwarded or lands in the hands of Mccormick. I believe there is at least one other copy of this book out there in PA land.

Maddog
I wrote to Tom M and received this email this morning:


"Hi Tom.., Its Tom McCormick

No...I don't have any copies of See How They Run... I wrote the book before I had a computer.., and only saved the "Velocity Class Ratings." Velocity is distance divided by time at various parts of the race...Then made into one number...The handicapping angles have their own room in my brain.. I have changed several things ie. I added some new angles and deleted some old ones...

The Daily Race Form didn't acknowledge my numbers because they conflicted with their Beyer Ratings.. The Beyer's are based on only the final time of the race... My ratings include the entire race...First segment 27% Second 27% Third segment 46%...

Two major changes in my method is the importance of "Turn Time" in dirt sprints, and that the time of the last segment of a turf race is awesome....
Barry Meadow has a copy of my book...In it I wrote: "I realize that putting this volume in the hands of some people., would be like giving a string of pearls to an ape." He liked that.. What is "Pace Advantage Message Board?"

Tom"

I wrote back and said:

Hi Tom,

Thanks very much for your response! Do you have, or are you working on any software that represents your methodology?

PaceAdvantage.com is a messageboard where some of the most brilliant minds (some crazies too, lol) in handicapping come to share. Please check it out and it would be an honor to have you there sharing your thoughts and experiences. Thanks again Tom.

Best regards,

Tom

[maddog42]

Maddog
I wrote to Tom M and received this email this morning:


"Hi Tom.., Its Tom McCormick

No...I don't have any copies of See How They Run... I wrote the book before I had a computer.., and only saved the "Velocity Class Ratings." Velocity is distance divided by time at various parts of the race...Then made into one number...The handicapping angles have their own room in my brain.. I have changed several things ie. I added some new angles and deleted some old ones...

The Daily Race Form didn't acknowledge my numbers because they conflicted with their Beyer Ratings.. The Beyer's are based on only the final time of the race... My ratings include the entire race...First segment 27% Second 27% Third segment 46%...

Two major changes in my method is the importance of "Turn Time" in dirt sprints, and that the time of the last segment of a turf race is awesome....
Barry Meadow has a copy of my book...In it I wrote: "I realize that putting this volume in the hands of some people., would be like giving a string of pearls to an ape." He liked that.. What is "Pace Advantage Message Board?"

Tom"

I wrote back and said:

Hi Tom,

Thanks very much for your response! Do you have, or are you working on any software that represents your methodology?

PaceAdvantage.com is a messageboard where some of the most brilliant minds (some crazies too, lol) in handicapping come to share. Please check it out and it would be an honor to have you there sharing your thoughts and experiences. Thanks again Tom.

Best regards,

Tom
Thanks Atlasaxis, this is informative and maybe enlightening. I am glad to hear that Mccormick is alive and well. I feared differently. Your response is much appreciated and clears up a few things.

[tlinetrader]

so no new leads on how to acquire a copy?

[maddog42]

so no new leads on how to acquire a copy?

People contacted me because (i think) I offered cash and trade. I paid $50 cash and traded a $60 book for my copy. This may not be what people want to hear, but this IS a rare book. I sell books on Amazon and ebay and have been looking for this book for over a year. I don't think this is an unreasonable price for this book.

[maddog42]

Copy the pages and sell it to us!

Little things like copyright, getting sued and to a lesser degree, morality keep me from doing this. Ok, forget the the morality BS, getting sued. You guys need to write McCormick and convince him to let me copy it. I will do nothing without his permission.

[whodoyoulike]

Has anyone tried contacting the publisher?

Will probably need date published, book title, and author. They may have some unsold still in inventory. Or, have a suggestion to pass along to you.

[Light]

My ratings include the entire race...First segment 27% Second 27% Third segment 46%...

That's one I haven't heard of before. Do you know why he considers the 3rd segment 46%?

[maddog42]

Has anyone tried contacting the publisher?

Will probably need date published, book title, and author. They may have some unsold still in inventory. Or, have a suggestion to pass along to you.

No publisher is listed. This appears to be self published, loose leaf binder, kinko,style copied. Not even a publishing date.

[Speed Figure]

You guys are really making it seem like this book is going to change ones handicapping life! not saying that it can't help, but man! you guys are doing everything possible to it get.:faint:

[tlinetrader]

The publisher is RPM at http://rpmhandicappinggiant.com/
I spoke with Mark there and he indicated that they do not have the original or any copies although they have received many inquiries recently. He also said they own the publishing rights. He's keeping a list of those who have inquired in case he can come up with a copy. I assume since they own the publishing rights that they could authorize someone who has the manual to make a copy for the publisher, perhaps for a small finders fee. Just a thought.

[Light]

You guys are really making it seem like this book is going to change ones handicapping life! not saying that it can't help, but man! you guys are doing everything possible to it get.:faint:


I agree. If it was any good, it wouldn't have been tossed by most users or the publisher and Mccormick would have become a name known in the racing industry, not just for spices.

[whodoyoulike]

You guys are really making it seem like this book is going to change ones handicapping life! not saying that it can't help, but man! you guys are doing everything possible to it get.:faint:

I was trying to provide some suggestions for those interested in acquiring this book. I thought that's what we usually do on here. I'm not looking for it but now we know who the publisher is, they can contact them and find out which bookstores the book was sent and possibly they still have a copy.

And, I sorta agree with Light.

[davew]

The publisher is RPM at http://rpmhandicappinggiant.com/
I spoke with Mark there and he indicated that they do not have the original or any copies although they have received many inquiries recently. He also said they own the publishing rights. He's keeping a list of those who have inquired in case he can come up with a copy. I assume since they own the publishing rights that they could authorize someone who has the manual to make a copy for the publisher, perhaps for a small finders fee. Just a thought.


I emailed them a little over a year ago and they replied saying they haven't seen one in years (did not mention publishing right ownership).

What does it say when a system mill no longer has a system?

I am thinking that maybe it was too complicated or labor intensive for most people (if it did not just have poor results).

Was it Thask who had this in their top 3 all time?

[CincyHorseplayer]

Little things like copyright, getting sued and to a lesser degree, morality keep me from doing this. Ok, forget the the morality BS, getting sued. You guys need to write McCormick and convince him to let me copy it. I will do nothing without his permission.

Right. Do it privately. My point is I see no moral issue if the book is unattainable by legal means.

[reckless]

Maddog
I wrote to Tom M and received this email this morning:


"Hi Tom.., Its Tom McCormick

No...I don't have any copies of See How They Run... I wrote the book before I had a computer.., and only saved the "Velocity Class Ratings." Velocity is distance divided by time at various parts of the race...Then made into one number...The handicapping angles have their own room in my brain.. I have changed several things ie. I added some new angles and deleted some old ones...

The Daily Race Form didn't acknowledge my numbers because they conflicted with their Beyer Ratings.. The Beyer's are based on only the final time of the race... My ratings include the entire race...First segment 27% Second 27% Third segment 46%...

Two major changes in my method is the importance of "Turn Time" in dirt sprints, and that the time of the last segment of a turf race is awesome....
Barry Meadow has a copy of my book...In it I wrote: "I realize that putting this volume in the hands of some people., would be like giving a string of pearls to an ape." He liked that.. What is "Pace Advantage Message Board?"

Tom"

I wrote back and said:

Hi Tom,

Thanks very much for your response! Do you have, or are you working on any software that represents your methodology?

PaceAdvantage.com is a messageboard where some of the most brilliant minds (some crazies too, lol) in handicapping come to share. Please check it out and it would be an honor to have you there sharing your thoughts and experiences. Thanks again Tom.

Best regards,

Tom

I have a question per the bolded part in McCormick's note to you.

He said he applies percent numbers to segments and each segment has a certain value, 27 percent, 27 percent, with the final segment 46 percent. A single number is derived this way.

Are these segment percentages the same regardless of the distance? Are percent segments different in sprint races than in route races?

Thanks.

[buzzy]

i don't get all the attention this book gets... what you are referring to is velocity as it relates to form. the author uses the last 3 or 4 races to know whether the races were run too fast vs too slow, etc..as laid out in the book, you have to relate last 3 starts to 1 distance, all sprints to 6f, all routes to 1 1/16, T-D, track to track, just too many adjustments where i could not trust the ratings..he uses 2nd call velocity,FF velocity, and final time velocity, then combines the ratings......second half of book deals with running lines relating to form.. which i got something out of .hope this helps