QuickHorse Handicapping for PA

[QuickHorse]

It's been a month since we began posting our 60 day free trial offer to Paceadvantage.com users and I wanted to say thanks for the increase in traffic to our website.

It's a bit disappointing that only a few users have opted to trial the software. We know that for some, our "friends" at Symantec have blocked your access and we're currently working with them to relieve you of those issues.

I wanted to introduce myself and offer answers to any question forum users might have about the software.

Good luck in your handicapping.

Mike Groves
Support Manager - QuickReckoning, Inc.

[turninforhome10]

Hey Mike, Glad to see the authorized by your name. As a client for going on 5 yrs, your customer service has been impeccable, your willingness to build new features based on customer feedback is spot on and the best feature of the product is the ability to create your method. Very happy customer as this is the first product that allows me, the user to make my own methods using data that I create. Yes, the learning curve is steep, but once mastered it becomes a formidable weapon.
Thanks Again
Kirk
P.S. Love the new odds line feature, it has increased my ROI by .45

[QuickHorse]

Thanks Kirk. I appreciate the kind words, and evidently the bump in page views as a result of it.

[hyipro]

The best priced software bar none, great piece of work it is the foundation of my handicapping software. Software selling for 4x the price does not offer
this level of ease of use and features. The five year library is worth the cost alone. You would be foolish not to take up the free trail (Mike that will be
one year free for the blurb - LOL)

[JJMartin]

How does this program do as a black box?

[QuickHorse]

It's not a black box so it doesn't work as a black box. My interpretation of "black box" is that you simply press a button and out pops the result with no idea how you obtained that result - hence "black" means process is not viewable. The strategy of QuickHorse is to allow the creation of as many different type of races as the user wants, then to allow the user to set up inputs to a method (several are included and others can be custom created), then to allow QuickHorse to automatically tune those methods and types of races.

So, definitely not a black box.

[green80]

It's not a black box so it doesn't work as a black box. My interpretation of "black box" is that you simply press a button and out pops the result with no idea how you obtained that result - hence "black" means process is not viewable. The strategy of QuickHorse is to allow the creation of as many different type of races as the user wants, then to allow the user to set up inputs to a method (several are included and others can be custom created), then to allow QuickHorse to automatically tune those methods and types of races.

So, definitely not a black box.

So quickhorse "backfits" the selection method to fit a selected group of races?

[QuickHorse]

So quickhorse "backfits" the selection method to fit a selected group of races?

The simple answer is yes. If you're familiar with BetMix, which came out in 2011, that software, to a much simpler degree, does the same thing.

[JJMartin]

The simple answer is yes. If you're familiar with BetMix, which came out in 2011, that software, to a much simpler degree, does the same thing.

Does this program use a neural net to adjust the weighting or the fine tuning?

[QuickHorse]

QuickHorse uses proprietary software methods to do its supertuning. However, a short description is that any method can contain up to 8 independent "Columns" (and a Column can actually be an entire method of 8 columns) which are weighted by multipliers from 0-100. These multipliers are used to give weight or remove weight from those Columns which may or may not lend themselves to positive outcomes. As to how we do that, as quickly as we do that, that is proprietary.

[mikesal57]

Mr. Groves

Can you possibly give us a card or two this weekend showing us what it can do?
There was a post back in 2011 by turninforhome10 on a day at Saratoga that was loaded with maiden races but did show promise.
just a thought

Question: Is all data stored on the web or can an individual save it to to his computer?



thxs

[green80]

Mr. Groves

Can you possibly give us a card or two this weekend showing us what it can do?
There was a post back in 2011 by turninforhome10 on a day at Saratoga that was loaded with maiden races but did show promise.
just a thought

Question: Is all data stored on the web or can an individual save it to to his computer?



thxs

I think a few cards, done by someone who knows the program is a good idea.

[mikesal57]

So quickhorse "backfits" the selection method to fit a selected group of races?

In response to "backfitting" ...

Can the program "supertune" to a set range on dates, say like year 2014
and apply it forward to say 2015 to test results?

[QuickHorse]

In response to "backfitting" ...

Can the program "supertune" to a set range on dates, say like year 2014
and apply it forward to say 2015 to test results?

Yes, you can slice dates anyway you wish, so you can supertune a prior date range, for example, 2013, then just use the backtest feature on 2014 to see how those settings did going forward. That would give you a year's worth data backward then test as if you had wagered the year of 2014. Some users will supertune based on a year, but then only backtest for a month and claim the figures do not line up, so I suggest you pick equal swaths of time as a fair comparison.

As for race cards we do have a feature called "Get Tipsheet" (available on the 2nd popup of QuickHorse once you've initialized the software), and as part of the 100% features GET TIPSHEETS is available to all users during that trial. This feature would typically be for novice handicappers or those who do not want to get to know the program and only want some selections. These Tipsheets are supertuned using the past 50 races at that track/distance/class tier/type of wager.

There seems to be a hesitation on the part of users here but I assure you that while we ask for your email address, the purpose is to uniquely associate you with a string of characters (though we do insist it is in an email format). There are users who use fake email addresses and though we know who you are we don't cancel your subscription. We also don't support you as we can not contact you so if you want support then use a proper email address. Emails are not used to spam you as we notify users of updates via web page access within QuickHorse when updates are available.

Bottom line there is nothing you need fear by simply downloading the software and registering. That way you have unlimited access to our tipsheets we've tuned for today's race cards. That's the best I can do for you and I think its fair.

[mikesal57]

Thxs Mike for your response on backfitting...

As for the tipsheet , I did see it as part of the program but was hoping for a seasoned vet to give their thoughts and process...

My question on saving any kind of info to an individuals computer was not answered.

Mike

[Flysofree]

I love this program and am a true computer dummy...But give it time.. The 30 days is great offer. It has training videos on lots of topics.

Now... what I wish could be changed, when a track cancels it's card, eliminate that date/card from the download in history.

[mikesal57]

I love this program and am a true computer dummy...But give it time.. The 30 days is great offer. It has training videos on lots of topics.

Now... what I wish could be changed, when a track cancels it's card, eliminate that date/card from the download in history.


thxs FLY

maybe you can answer my question...Can this only be used via web and no info is stored on your PC?

[Flysofree]

thxs FLY

maybe you can answer my question...Can this only be used via web and no info is stored on your PC?

I said I was a dummy, but as far as I know you can save it.... I'm a pencil and paper type guy. I'm sure someone with sound computer knowledge will answer soon.

[QuickHorse]

thxs FLY

maybe you can answer my question...Can this only be used via web and no info is stored on your PC?

I didn't mean to confuse anyone when comparing this to BetMix which IS AN INTERNET BASED PROGRAM. Due to the data processing requirements this is a WINDOWS BASED SYSTEM and it only uses the internet to download data and communicate to our company's registration server to protect other users against fraudulent (unpaid for subscription).

So, all data is stored on and the program runs on your personal computer.

MAC systems now have windows emulators so it can run on those types of devices if you have Windows installed as part of that.

Mike

[QuickHorse]

And additional, but less used, feature of QuickHorse is that you can download the companion QHApp for your Android Smart Phone. The App allows you to "communicate" with QuickHorse as it runs on your home computer while you're at the track. With the QHApp, you can select Tracks/Races/Methods and run commands remotely to your desktop in order to Handicap/Supertune/Backtest and even request a snapshot of the Live Tote Board feature of QuickHorse.

Just FYI...

Mike

[QuickHorse]

Kirk,

I received your email but my positive response wasn't sent. Evidently your Comcast email address is outdated or otherwise incorrect.

Mike

[mikesal57]

There's mention of a Quick Horse Forum on your website....

Is there?

Mike

[QuickHorse]

We do have a forum, but, unlike our Dog Racing Forum, it is a road less travelled. I believe horseplayers are a bit less eager to discuss their methods. I am careful not to put up web pages here because although an advertiser I am not sure I can plug other web pages. So, using the software, click on the HELP menu bar items, then on that popup you can find the "button" to take you to the forum page.

[jk3521]

If you use Bris data does that mean to backfit you must use BRIS results files or can the BRIS data be used using Quickhorse results files ?

[QuickHorse]

It is possible to use QuickHorse results with Bris DRF program files. As an example, if you have a DRF for CT downloaded today, then tomorrow you can simply tell QuickHorse to match its chart files to your existing (and recent) DRF file and QuickHorse will do that.

But, suppose you have downloaded a DRF file for last month sometime or last year, that's too old to match to Quickhorse. So for historical purposes this sort of thing won't work, but going forward you can use our results with your DRF files.

Most QuickHorse users simply use the free data.

[FocusWiz]

Hey Mike, Glad to see the authorized by your name. As a client for going on 5 yrs, your customer service has been impeccable, your willingness to build new features based on customer feedback is spot on and the best feature of the product is the ability to create your method. Very happy customer as this is the first product that allows me, the user to make my own methods using data that I create. Yes, the learning curve is steep, but once mastered it becomes a formidable weapon.
Thanks Again
Kirk
P.S. Love the new odds line feature, it has increased my ROI by .45I would like to echo the sentiments in this post.

While the interface is not "modern" I have not found that to be an issue. The lack of a fancy interface was a bit of a concern for me as well when I first started using it. There are other products with older interfaces which have not been updated in years. Mike's customer service is as good as it gets and the number of features added in the short time I've used it (about 2 years) indicates that the product continues to be supported and updated. One of the more recent updates were the result of a discussion in another thread here where Mike saw a potential change that could make the product more user-friendly and had the change made.

Don't let the DOS look fool you; this is a fairly powerful tool under the surface and can really help you once you get past the learning curve.

I think 30 days is probably too short a time to "learn" how to use this product, but I think if you spent a good 60 days trying to piece this together, you will find a worthwhile tool to add to your arsenal. Is the 60 day trial going to continue for PaceAdvantage users? As I recall, Semantic doesn't exactly block QuickHorse, but warns us that the product is not well known and that it is potentially dangerous (because it is not well known).

To make the trial more productive, you may want to spend a few hours reviewing the concepts of Reverse Polish Notation (the way older computers and HP Calculators and desktop adding machines work) before you start your trial period.

Glad you are here Mike.

[Jingle]

What am I Missing? Really I'm curious. I am a long time horse player and in years past when a vendor offered his product with a 60 day free trial and free data everyone and his brother would be all over the offer. The vendor mentioned the response has not been great. Is it because the software has been around a while and people have already tried it or the database aspect, or what? In the past many people would take advantage of a offer like this and then comment on it. Times have changed I guess.

No, I did not take advantage of the offer as it is not my kind of handicapping tool--I no longer spend the time that I use to handicapping.

Just wondering.

[acorn54]

What am I Missing? Really I'm curious. I am a long time horse player and in years past when a vendor offered his product with a 60 day free trial and free data everyone and his brother would be all over the offer. The vendor mentioned the response has not been great. Is it because the software has been around a while and people have already tried it or the database aspect, or what? In the past many people would take advantage of a offer like this and then comment on it. Times have changed I guess.

No, I did not take advantage of the offer as it is not my kind of handicapping tool--I no longer spend the time that I use to handicapping.

Just wondering.

i think you answered the question in your last paragraph.
personally, i am a sucker for trying any software offered, and have spent time with quickhorse back in 2003-. i am sure it is a whole different software today, so it would not be fair for me to say anything about it.

i have my own repetoire that i am satisfied with, so i no longer need any software.

[JJMartin]

What am I Missing? Really I'm curious. I am a long time horse player and in years past when a vendor offered his product with a 60 day free trial and free data everyone and his brother would be all over the offer. The vendor mentioned the response has not been great. Is it because the software has been around a while and people have already tried it or the database aspect, or what? In the past many people would take advantage of a offer like this and then comment on it. Times have changed I guess.

No, I did not take advantage of the offer as it is not my kind of handicapping tool--I no longer spend the time that I use to handicapping.

Just wondering.

I think a lot of people are too lazy to learn how to use it and/or they perceive the level of complexity to be beyond their ability to comprehend.

[turninforhome10]

I think a lot of people are too lazy to learn how to use it and/or they perceive the level of complexity to be beyond their ability to comprehend.
If you think of the it as a program that allows users to create their own methods for data mining, then it becomes an invaluable tool. I feel that most are looking for a plug and play program that gives you the answer without any work.
The basic methods included in the program are ok, but it was not until I started to build my own columns with logic steps built and incorporate them into methods that I really started to turn the corner. You have to think of how you attack a specific type of race and then build columns that think like you do and then build methods specific for those type of races.
I try to break the whole thing down into objective data vs subjective data.
Obj data is weight,days since last race, trainer roi etc. Subjective data would include pace, class, etc.
After building all the methods, I then mine my db (which I have tuned for the condition book timings rather full histories) looking for factors that are significant for the type of race. Once these factors are found I then take those factors and build the final method for the specific type of race.
I tune using Fast for surface, Distance specific and I use Race Grade.
If the surface is off, then I have built a pace specific modeling method just for the surface.
The secret that I have found is to use methods to build methods. So at the end I will have 18 methods that get tuned into 4 methods that then get tuned into a final method that I use with Live Tote to look for holes in the public.
If you think of the program as tool to help you program your methods then it is an invaluable tool. If you think of it as Black Box type that will give the answers hands free, then it will probably leave you wanting.
I started using it because I wanted to full trust the integrity of the data and the only way that I could do that was by building my own data mining tools.
There are a lot of programs that give you the information but understanding where it comes from is what I was looking for. I wanted to unmask the wizard behind the curtain and feel that I have done so.

[jk3521]

Took a quick glimpse at it a few yrs. back and was working at the time so I didn't put much effort into learning it. Now that I am retired I would like to try again, but I am not allowed another 30 day trial period because it is linked to your e-mail account and I keep getting free trial period over message. Oh well.

[turninforhome10]

An example of my method.
6th race at GP today 032015
QuickHorse (c) 2014 - Website: http://quickreckoning.com/horses.htm
Custom Method: Bet2 - Bet2
GULFSTREAM PARK 03-20-2015 RACE 6 OF 10 - TRACK RATING: 88
8.0f DIRT F&M 4&UP Nw 2 WGT 123 LBS NON-WS 1MI/OVER SNC FEB 20 2 LBS CLM $6 250 WGR: $1 D
CLAIMING PURSE: $15000 RACE RATINGS: PRE 13

Weighting Factors 2 5 1
PP Name *Pace *OBJ ML SCORE
1 MIMIS DREAM 47.08 61.79 3.00 7-1
2 BULLHEADED LADY 53.38 65.09 3.50 7-1
3 SEDUCCION 42.11 43.48 20.00 11-1
4 KEEP IN MIND 32.56 35.35 20.00 13-1
5 LOVER GONE WILD 50.00 38.43 15.00 11-1
6 LITTLE ZOE 42.04 62.77 6.00 8-1
7 JOAQUINA 38.38 30.26 20.00 14-1
8 MONGOLIAN HONEY 59.26 *66.38 *2.50 7-1
9 FAIR SHAKE 58.76 48.23 10.00 9-1
10 AFLEET ALLIE *66.36 44.61 20.00 9-1
The number of past races used is 6
******** THIS RACE MEETS MY CULLING REQUIREMENTS *********
MY TIP SHEET PREDICTIONS (USING Bet2):
PGM HORSE ODDS JOCKEY TRAINER OOF
8 MONGOLIAN HONEY 2.5 ZAYAS E. J. NAVARRO J.
2 BULLHEADED LADY 3.5 GAFFALIONE T. WALDER P. R.
1 MIMIS DREAM 3.0 GONZALES J. J. WALDER P. R.
6 LITTLE ZOE 6.0 CRUZ J. DELGADO G.
9 FAIR SHAKE 10.0 CARABALLO J. C. GRIFFITH R.
10 AFLEET ALLIE 20.0 MONTERREY JR. P. CARRASCO M. H.
5 LOVER GONE WILD 15.0 VASQUEZ M. A. CASCALLARES N.
3 SEDUCCION 20.0 CONTRERAS L. DUCO L.
4 KEEP IN MIND 20.0 NELSON L. PERSAUD R.
Separate the field at the 6\9. Use the :8: :2: :1: :6: to scout for winners and :9: :10: :5: :3: :4: for exotics. Also like to see when my top pick matches the public as a sign of true favorite. If not then I have a chance to make money when the public is wrong. To look at this printout properly, cut and paste into notepad and chance font to Lucinda Console.

[turninforhome10]

An example of my method.
6th race at GP today 032015
QuickHorse (c) 2014 - Website: http://quickreckoning.com/horses.htm
Custom Method: Bet2 - Bet2
GULFSTREAM PARK 03-20-2015 RACE 6 OF 10 - TRACK RATING: 88
8.0f DIRT F&M 4&UP Nw 2 WGT 123 LBS NON-WS 1MI/OVER SNC FEB 20 2 LBS CLM $6 250 WGR: $1 D
CLAIMING PURSE: $15000 RACE RATINGS: PRE 13

Weighting Factors 2 5 1
PP Name *Pace *OBJ ML SCORE
1 MIMIS DREAM 47.08 61.79 3.00 7-1
2 BULLHEADED LADY 53.38 65.09 3.50 7-1
3 SEDUCCION 42.11 43.48 20.00 11-1
4 KEEP IN MIND 32.56 35.35 20.00 13-1
5 LOVER GONE WILD 50.00 38.43 15.00 11-1
6 LITTLE ZOE 42.04 62.77 6.00 8-1
7 JOAQUINA 38.38 30.26 20.00 14-1
8 MONGOLIAN HONEY 59.26 *66.38 *2.50 7-1
9 FAIR SHAKE 58.76 48.23 10.00 9-1
10 AFLEET ALLIE *66.36 44.61 20.00 9-1
The number of past races used is 6
******** THIS RACE MEETS MY CULLING REQUIREMENTS *********
MY TIP SHEET PREDICTIONS (USING Bet2):
PGM HORSE ODDS JOCKEY TRAINER OOF
8 MONGOLIAN HONEY 2.5 ZAYAS E. J. NAVARRO J.
2 BULLHEADED LADY 3.5 GAFFALIONE T. WALDER P. R.
1 MIMIS DREAM 3.0 GONZALES J. J. WALDER P. R.
6 LITTLE ZOE 6.0 CRUZ J. DELGADO G.
9 FAIR SHAKE 10.0 CARABALLO J. C. GRIFFITH R.
10 AFLEET ALLIE 20.0 MONTERREY JR. P. CARRASCO M. H.
5 LOVER GONE WILD 15.0 VASQUEZ M. A. CASCALLARES N.
3 SEDUCCION 20.0 CONTRERAS L. DUCO L.
4 KEEP IN MIND 20.0 NELSON L. PERSAUD R.
Separate the field at the 6\9. Use the :8: :2: :1: :6: to scout for winners and :9: :10: :5: :3: :4: for exotics. Also like to see when my top pick matches the public as a sign of true favorite. If not then I have a chance to make money when the public is wrong. To look at this printout properly, cut and paste into notepad and chance font to Lucinda Console.
Results
Gulfstream Park - Race 6
# Win Place Show
2 $8.00 $3.80 $3.00
1 . $3.60 $2.80
9 . . $5.00

Wager Type Winning Numbers Paid
$1.00 Exacta 2/1 $8.90
$0.50 Trifecta 2/1/9 $26.65
$0.10 Superfecta 2/1/9/8 $12.46

[Jingle]

Turninforhome

Thank you very much for the excellent explanation and example. Good handicapping and I hope you had the winner with many more to come.

[Flysofree]

What am I Missing? Really I'm curious. I am a long time horse player and in years past when a vendor offered his product with a 60 day free trial and free data everyone and his brother would be all over the offer. The vendor mentioned the response has not been great. Is it because the software has been around a while and people have already tried it or the database aspect, or what? In the past many people would take advantage of a offer like this and then comment on it. Times have changed I guess.

No, I did not take advantage of the offer as it is not my kind of handicapping tool--I no longer spend the time that I use to handicapping.

Just wondering.

I think one problem is Norton blocking the download. That scares people to some extent... I had trouble downloading it even after disabling Norton, but it works fine now .

[punteray]

9, 2, 8, 1

Wheel for tri = 9, 2 / 9, 2, 8 / 9, 2, 8, 1 $1 play = $8

Wheel for xta = 9, 2 / 9, 2, 8, 1 $1 play = $6

[QuickHorse]

Once you get past Norton, there doesn't appear to be any blocking of QuickHorse's access of data, or updates from its FILE Menu Bar. According to Norton, after we contacted them, our download is supposed to removed from or added to whatever list they maintain which says its OK. The problem is, I believe, that each time we update the software (and we're nearly ready to do that), then that update isn't "certified" by their holy ministers of what is good for you internet wise.

Anyway, Norton only seems to have a market share of about 8% versus Comcast's 40% of the ISP Market, so doesn't appear that Comcast users are downloading it in droves. I use Comcast but didn't know about the free subscription to Norton until this issue cropped up with QuickHorse.

Mike

[QuickHorse]

We do offer retrials of the software as long as the free trial hasn't been used recently.

I got an email a while ago asking what the pricing parameters were for the software.

The subscription pricing begins at $90/year and is for the software subscription. Our data is free to all users of QuickHorse but it can also use data that can be purchased at Brisnet.

Mike

[banacek]

The printout from Gulfstream Race 6 seems odd to me. There is an odds line in a 10 horse race that varies from 7-1 to 14-1. There are 4 horses in there that have almost no chance..actual odds from 50 to 100 to 1 and ran like it.

Is that just because of the method the poster used or do other ways of using the program give a more variable (realistic) oddsline? That's something I really like in a program. Thanks.

[turninforhome10]

The printout from Gulfstream Race 6 seems odd to me. There is an odds line in a 10 horse race that varies from 7-1 to 14-1. There are 4 horses in there that have almost no chance..actual odds from 50 to 100 to 1 and ran like it.

Is that just because of the method the poster used or do other ways of using the program give a more variable (realistic) oddsline? That's something I really like in a program. Thanks.
It is just the method. I tend to have higher morning lines. If you want to build a method that would think like the morning line maker, you could do that.

[Flysofree]

Once you get past Norton, there doesn't appear to be any blocking of QuickHorse's access of data, or updates from its FILE Menu Bar. According to Norton, after we contacted them, our download is supposed to removed from or added to whatever list they maintain which says its OK. The problem is, I believe, that each time we update the software (and we're nearly ready to do that), then that update isn't "certified" by their holy ministers of what is good for you internet wise.

Anyway, Norton only seems to have a market share of about 8% versus Comcast's 40% of the ISP Market, so doesn't appear that Comcast users are downloading it in droves. I use Comcast but didn't know about the free subscription to Norton until this issue cropped up with QuickHorse.

Mike

Is Norton the only software that attempts to block the initial download of QuickHorse? If so I will leave them when my subscription expires this year.

[QuickHorse]

The only report with QuickHorse has been Norton. We did have an issue with AVAST deleting some of our software after installing it with our QuickDog product.

When these products first came out they would always ask the user if he/she knew what he/she was doing and giving an option. Now with some of them they simply make the decision for you. I don't know if this has something to do with large corporation pressure to limit employees to cut down on the possibility of a hack or not on corporate networks.

Mike

[QuickHorse]

Another answer regarding the formulation of the Odds Line is that its simply the product of the algorithm we use. And we're always looking for user provided algorithms if possible. The user has the option of selecting a final score for each horse (lowest is best), or the odds line value which takes these final scores, applies the algorithm, and comes up with these odds.

Mike

[QuickHorse]

Since our Free 60 day trial ends at the end of March, I wanted to take an opportunity to thank the forum for looking over the QuickHorse software. I received some helpful comments and many new free trial users during the last two months.

Remember we do still provide a lengthy 30 day trial after March 31, and also that you can opt to use DRF files with QuickHorse although our software includes our free data and up to 5 years of our free data to begin with. QuickHorse does use historical data to predict future races.

Our 60 day pace advantage users free trial can be found here -

http://www.quickreckoning.com/pa_offer.htm

Mike

[Zaf]

I signed up March 9th through the PA link but was only given a 30 day trial ?

Z

[QuickHorse]

We have two subscription lengths that I can "click on", one is 30 days and one is 365 days. What the web page said was, use it for 30 days and if you need more time contact me and I'll do another 30 days. So that's 60. Since we don't have a 60 day subscription available, then that's how its done. Some users might have more than enough time at 30, and other users will quit after 1 day, while others may need 60 days. So we've got all options covered.

Mike

[Zaf]

Fair Enough, Thanks

Z

[Pensacola Pete]

I tried Quickhorse with the free historical data and ran into the 0.80 ROI firewall that everything seems to hit nowadays.

My question for long-term users QH is: do any of you use BRIS data with good results?

Thanks.

[QuickHorse]

Sorry for the mixup "Pete". I meant the QuickHorse forum. You can get to it from within QuickHorse by clicking on the HELP menu bar item, then look for forum and click on that.

Mike

[davew]

Does anyone use this program exclusively, or just for data to help their handicapping?

[ubercapper]

Since this thread has been bumped I want point out what was mentioned in another thread about this program regarding data the program uses, whether free or as part of a subscription:



It was stated in the other thread "The Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database."



This points to a clear violation of the terms of use of the web sites from which the information is obtained. Racing data web sites all have terms of use containing language the information is for personal, noncommercial use and may not be transferred or distributed in any way, as well as stating any use of robots, spiders and scrapers are prohibited.



Due to the program violating the terms of use of the data, it is possible at some point that data will become unavailable, rendering the product useless.

[QuickHorse]

This promotion is no longer valid.

[JimG]

Due to the program violating the terms of use of the data, it is possible at some point that data will become unavailable, rendering the product useless.

It uses brisnet data as well.

[ubercapper]

It uses brisnet data as well.

As long as the Brisnet data file the program ingests is purchased from Brisnet, there are no issues with the terms of service I mentioned earlier in the thread. Bris, HDW, TrackMaster and others sell files which are specific to certain programs (just two examples being JCapper and RDSS) but the purchase comes from the licensed data provider.

I just checked the QuickHorse software page and noted this language

FREE Horse Racing Handicapping Software w/FREE Horse Racing Data too!

The language suggests the software comes with data that was purchased and is now being given away free or the software comes with data which was obtained via scraping. Please correct me if I am wrong. If I am correct, the data is being used in violation of the terms of use.

[mikesal57]

As long as the Brisnet data file the program ingests is purchased from Brisnet, there are no issues with the terms of service I mentioned earlier in the thread. Bris, HDW, TrackMaster and others sell files which are specific to certain programs (just two examples being JCapper and RDSS) but the purchase comes from the licensed data provider.

I just checked the QuickHorse software page and noted this language

FREE Horse Racing Handicapping Software w/FREE Horse Racing Data too!

The language suggests the software comes with data that was purchased and is now being given away free or the software comes with data which was obtained via scraping. Please correct me if I am wrong. If I am correct, the data is being used in violation of the terms of use.




Why dont you let it be dude....

[ubercapper]

Why dont you let it be dude....


Why is pointing out giving away the data free, or reselling data that was purchased for personal use, a problem for you?


The questions that should be asked are - Why didn't the creator of this handicapping program go to any of a number of licensed resellers (like Bris, TrackMaster, Equibase and HDW) and agree to pay a small royalty to allow users to have a sample file as well as work with the reseller to sell program specific files on any of the sites, or if the program reads files already available on the sites, to negotiate marketing the program and perhaps get a royalty on those data file sales?

[mikesal57]

Why is pointing out giving away the data free, or reselling data that was purchased for personal use, a problem for you?


The questions that should be asked are - Why didn't the creator of this handicapping program go to any of a number of licensed resellers (like Bris, TrackMaster, Equibase and HDW) and agree to pay a small royalty to allow users to have a sample file as well as work with the reseller to sell program specific files on any of the sites, or if the program reads files already available on the sites, to negotiate marketing the program and perhaps get a royalty on those data file sales?

here we go again......

there are a number of sellers here that dont go that way..are you going to see if they are violating things too???

How is QH getting their figs to give out instead of charging?
Most likely paying for it...
So if they are buying and then converting it to their own numbers , they are doing what every other programmer is doing.....but hes giving it out for free ...its this decision!!!!

So whats the f^%$&*g problem?

[NorCalGreg]

.
.
.

How does Mike get all these free pages of advertising here? If he's an advertiser--it doesn't mention that.

I'm not allowed to even mention my programs without paying for the privilege (it's not cheap either)

I apologize for getting in your business, Mike G. I'm just wondering how that works--NCG

[mikesal57]

.
.
.

How does Mike get all these free pages of advertising here? If he's an advertiser--it doesn't mention that.

I'm not allowed to even mention my programs without paying for the privilege (it's not cheap either)

I apologize for getting in your business, Mike G. I'm just wondering how that works--NCG

Mike G isnt doing anything...its these jealous a-holes with no business sticking their noses in...

BTW Gregg...It says " Authorized Advertiser- Pace-View.com" ...So why cant you mention your stuff?

[PaceAdvantage]

.
.
.

How does Mike get all these free pages of advertising here? If he's an advertiser--it doesn't mention that.

I'm not allowed to even mention my programs without paying for the privilege (it's not cheap either)

I apologize for getting in your business, Mike G. I'm just wondering how that works--NCGThose are old posts...he was an authorized advertiser.

I don't go back and delete the posts he made after his advertising term ends...and I won't do that to you either.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why dont you let it be dude....No. He shouldn't let it be, dude.

[ubercapper]

here we go again......

there are a number of sellers here that dont go that way..are you going to see if they are violating things too???


Not necessarily me but..YES.


It's not fair to any licensed entity selling a product or software when someone is undercutting them by distributing data (or derived products from data) which is/was purchased with the caveat it is personal use only.


How is QH getting their figs to give out instead of charging?
Most likely paying for it...
So if they are buying and then converting it to their own numbers , they are doing what every other programmer is doing.....but hes giving it out for free ...its this decision!!!!


No, that's not what every programmer is doing.

Most programmers write their software to use a commercial file sold by a licensed reseller, or they use it for themselves only. There are many people on PA who wrote software which reads BRIS, DRF, HDW or TrackMaster files, or which they keep to themselves.

Its also not his decision to give away or sell data, even if derived from the original source. It is a violation of the terms of use of the data to create something from it for anything other than personal use without a license to do so.

[mikesal57]

Not necessarily me but..YES.


It's not fair to any licensed entity selling a product or software when someone is undercutting them by distributing data (or derived products from data) which is/was purchased with the caveat it is personal use only.



No, that's not what every programmer is doing.

Most programmers write their software to use a commercial file sold by a licensed reseller, or they use it for themselves only. There are many people on PA who wrote software which reads BRIS, DRF, HDW or TrackMaster files, or which they keep to themselves.

Its also not his decision to give away or sell data, even if derived from the original source. It is a violation of the terms of use of the data to create something from it for anything other than personal use without a license to do so.

what out all...here comes the judge....

[PaceAdvantage]

what out all...here comes the judge....I assume you shoplift every day...steal anything you can get your hands on...pirate movies...music....etc...etc...

No?

But it's ok to do that when it comes to racing data....ok....gotcha...

[mikesal57]

I assume you shoplift every day...steal anything you can get your hands on...pirate movies...music....etc...etc...

No?

But it's ok to do that when it comes to racing data....ok....gotcha...

I do pirate movies & music
also
hack phones & windows programs...

So go call the cops!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

I hope they crack the **** down HARDER on anyone giving data away...that's what I hope...

Guys who can't afford to pay for data shouldn't be betting in the first place.

[mikesal57]

I hope they crack the **** down HARDER on anyone giving data away...that's what I hope...

Guys who can't afford to pay for data shouldn't be betting in the first place.

Ok great....go give your money to Twinspires...they deserve it :jump:

[oughtoh]

Took a quick glimpse at it a few yrs. back and was working at the time so I didn't put much effort into learning it. Now that I am retired I would like to try again, but I am not allowed another 30 day trial period because it is linked to your e-mail account and I keep getting free trial period over message. Oh well.

I would probably try it again too if there was another free trial. It has been a long time and I din't remember much about it

[mikesal57]

I would probably try it again too if there was another free trial. It has been a long time and I din't remember much about it

Contact owner.....