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Old 06-15-2012, 08:28 AM   #16
JBmadera
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It's bad enough that human athletes choose to dope but it is unconscionable what these trainers do to equine athletes. folks need to start going to prison, not worthless slaps on the wrists.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Grits

NOTE TO ALL TRAINERS: If you are not any good at training horses. If you lack the knowledge it takes to keep these animals in racing condition. If your skills are so poor that you have to CHEAT to race your
Drug have always been a part of the game. Going back to the good old days will only result in going back to the use of street narcotics. Ninety percent of the horses running are junkies. The is no such thing as drug free training. You are asking a horse to do thing they would not do in nature without being in pain. This is more cruel, than giving a horse pain killers.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by pondman
Drug have always been a part of the game. Going back to the good old days will only result in going back to the use of street narcotics. Ninety percent of the horses running are junkies. The is no such thing as drug free training. You are asking a horse to do thing they would not do in nature without being in pain. This is more cruel, than giving a horse pain killers.
There is drug therapy that is allowable. Narcotics/morphine in a horse going into the gate is not. As far as the good old days, no joke? Sure, drugs have always been around. There's a reason that heroin is called, "horse" as I'm sure you know.

I don't think I've indicated anything, whatsoever, about drug free training. This isn't what myself or anyone else is discussing.

If you think morphine is fine on race day, then, you bet him, honey. I'm not.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FenceBored
At the moment I write, this thread has twice the views and twice the replies of the thread on the Ky Lasix ban approval.
You are mixing up possible interest shown by newspaper editors with PA thread views. Not sure if the correlate linearly.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Grits
If you think morphine is fine on race day, then, you bet him, honey. I'm not.
Good morning to you to as well. And I second that - minus the 'honey'.
ps: yes I've had morphine experience, not really by my choice but it was needed and I was not racing. But I can imagine the effect of being forced to race while morphine is needed. That is cruel to animals and a huge breach of trust toward bettors.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:22 AM   #21
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You are mixing up possible interest shown by newspaper editors with PA thread views. Not sure if the correlate linearly.
Grits's point (to which you were replying) was about PA thread replies/views, my point was about PA thread replies/views. Who's mixing things up?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #22
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Horseplayers -- myself included -- like to refer to this as "our" game.

We get mad at the cheating trainers, and the people who manage this sport...because they are "ruining our game". I have said this myself.

But it has slowly occurred to me that this is not really "my" game...and it never was.

I may have patronized it for a very long time...but I have always been an "outsider".

The game belongs to those who run it, both by running the horses and overseeing the operation...and I have always been on the outside looking in.

I see some galant, beautiful animals...and I am angered when they are mistreated.

But "they" see only the pot at the end of the rainbow...so we are speaking a different language.

We are the "suckers"...and they are the ones minding the cash register...
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBmadera
It's bad enough that human athletes choose to dope but it is unconscionable what these trainers do to equine athletes. folks need to start going to prison, not worthless slaps on the wrists.
We should be freezing samples so that testing can eventually catch up with the criminals and then when we find things like this it should be an immediate lifetime ban with massive financial penalties and/or jail time. Even a lifetime ban is not enough because if they get away with something new for long enough they'll get rich before we ban them and not really care anyway.

The punishment has to be severe enough to deter the crime or we are wasting our time.

This is total BS.

It's not like this stuff even impacts me as a gambler. It's simply cruel to the animals and it's theft from honest owners, trainers, jockeys etc...
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Horseplayers -- myself included -- like to refer to this as "our" game.

We get mad at the cheating trainers, and the people who manage this sport...because they are "ruining our game". I have said this myself.

But it has slowly occurred to me that this is not really "my" game...and it never was.

I may have patronized it for a very long time...but I have always been an "outsider".

The game belongs to those who run it, both by running the horses and overseeing the operation...and I have always been on the outside looking in.

I see some galant, beautiful animals...and I am angered when they are mistreated.

But "they" see only the pot at the end of the rainbow...so we are speaking a different language.

We are the "suckers"...and they are the ones minding the cash register...


Well said and they cannot see the endgame is set with there actions.
Mac
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:11 AM   #25
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update....testing is spreading....GOOD

http://www.drf.com/news/warning-chan...phin-positives

'Bout time...

hopefully as a previous poster suggested...they are SAVING samples...

To make lemonade out of a lemon situation...there are few trainer's I'm going to go against now...you know....the one's w/underlayed odds that can't be beat...
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage
http://www.drf.com/news/warning-chan...phin-positives

'Bout time...

hopefully as a previous poster suggested...they are SAVING samples...

To make lemonade out of a lemon situation...there are few trainer's I'm going to go against now...you know....the one's w/underlayed odds that can't be beat...
Money quote from that article:
According to an official with knowledge of the positives, Oklahoma has detected at least 15 post-race positives of dermorphin. Ten of those positives came from one trainer, the official said. {emphasis added}
-- http://www.drf.com/news/warning-chan...phin-positives
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #27
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I really hate it when drug testing labs find sonething that is not there. Some tests are so sensitive that they frequently have false positives. When only 1 testing company can find something, I wonder if they are fishing for more business to increase their bottom line.

I am not saying this is the case here, but those are stiff penalties and suspensions - what if they are wrong? and are finding something that is normally found from eating clover or alfalfa?
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #28
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what if they are wrong? and are finding something that is normally found from eating clover or alfalfa?
It would be nice if they were wrong. But I've got a feeling they are not. Too, I can't imagine morphine being found among clover, or that alfalfa would be soaked in it.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Grits
It would be nice if they were wrong. But I've got a feeling they are not. Too, I can't imagine morphine being found among clover, or that alfalfa would be soaked in it.
I'm not a chemist, I don't know how they test, or to what levels, but you may want to re-think your thought about alfalfa:

http://www.springboard4health.com/no...s_alfalfa.html

I do assume there is a specific test to isolate synthetic morphine.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:22 AM   #30
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I'm not a chemist, I don't know how they test, or to what levels, but you may want to re-think your thought about alfalfa:

http://www.springboard4health.com/no...s_alfalfa.html

I do assume there is a specific test to isolate synthetic morphine.
This seems to be what the findings have indicated. Horses have been eating alfalfa for centuries. Seeing the word morphine in a chemical composition where its not indicated in any way related to the horse, beneficially or even detrimentally, doesn't lead me to believe that, all at once, alfalfa is the host, the carrier, for loading horses up on the narcotic. JMO.
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