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Old 03-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #61
JustRalph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
Good riddance.
Good riddance my ass. The man makes a valid point. I can assume that many more will come to the same conclusion. For you to spout off with this crack you show that you are no better than those who have ignored problems for years. Keep tossing people out of the pools and pretty soon you have no sport.

no matter how you feel about the sport, it all comes down to leadership. Like everything else in this world of ours. The sports leaders are a disjointed amalgamation of interests lacking a confluence of ideas. Each for their own Statewide interest. It's the nature of the beast. It is a huge flaw in the sport. It is a glaring item that has been discussed for the entire ten years I have followed the game. Yet nothing has changed.

This article reminds me of the quote:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

This sport lacks identifiable good men. It abounds with scoundrels.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:47 PM   #62
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The states have created artificial subsidies with slot money. As with any other state subsidy (i.e., post-graduate education), the quality of the product suffers and the quantity supplied expands because the market is distorted. Thus, you have people entering lame and injured horses in an attempt to chase that money. Those New Mexico tracks would not survive without the artificial subsidy.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #63
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Kirby is an adult, who, if he wishes to react to Drape's piece by ceasing to wager, then so be it.

I have a different outlook: I am not letting Joe Drape and The New York Times be the impetus for me to leave the sport.

I have been on the ownership side, and to a much, much greater extent, the fan/bettor side, and I am aware of the issues plaguing the sport.

I say this as someone who has followed the sport for over 30 years.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:53 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebus1083
Looks like another breakdown at Aqueduct in the finale - There Goes Molly

From the Equibase chart caller:

"THERE GOES MOLLY displayed poor action from the get-go, bore out continuously down the backstretch while not persevered with, got pulled up and was subsequently vanned off."

Any word on this horse?
No word yet on this poor filly , 25 starts last year . All prior trainers involved need to be questioned by the new inquiry board as well as the Vets. Just my opinion.
Not to mention since age two , never had a season off . cmon.
Whoever the Vet was that cleared her needs to explain. if she cae out with bad action , something was wrong.

Last edited by nijinski; 03-25-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by appistappis
As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospital, Georgie went out drinking.
As a Canadian and a Chuvalo booster, I have to add that this was after the first fight in '66, not the 2nd one in '72.
After the first fight Ali said "He's the toughest guy I ever fought", Dundee said "He never stopped coming on ... you've got to admire a man like that."
Although George wasn't knocked down in either fight, he was seriously outpointed by Ali both times.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appistappis
As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospitol, georgie went out drinking.
No doubt about it, George could take a beating and keep on standing.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:23 PM   #67
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Starting at the beginning might help the discussion.

A little Journalism 101: if New Mexico's record regarding deaths weren't so, would Drape have been able to write this?

I am not arguing that fatalities, drug issues, and regulatory concerns are not problems, but was it handled well here?

And, was using New Mexico as the "news peg" (in a way) -- and I am certain that everyone here knows what that is -- sound journalism?

Is using New Mexico a worthy foundation to draw such broad conclusions, as has been done here?

It is not unreasonable to consider these elements.

Last edited by Cardus; 03-25-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by depalma113
The messenger needs to be attacked. It was a hit piece and not journalism. The writer exploited a bad situation in New Mexico and than extrapolated it to the entire industry throughout the country. Rather than showing the problem in one state, a state that lacks regulation and enforcement, the writer sets his sights on the entire sport.

Did they run their computer analysis without the data from New Mexico? My guess is they didn't. When five of the six worst offenders are in one state, that one state has a problem. Had they included in their story that they had run the data without New Mexico and the results were the same, than they have a legitimate argument. I doubt the data would support that result.

Last year a 3 year-old died at the OBS June sale. It was the only fatality during the 2 day under tack show. Nearly 600 horses worked out and one had a heart attack and died on the track. PETA ambushed OBS based on that one horse. Just as The New York Times is ambushing the entire racing industry because of one jurisdiction. It sensationalized one incident and ignored the hundreds of times the racing goes off without a problem.

Anyone who writes that "race officials have always done their best to hide fatal breakdowns" and than sites a screen used to keep the public from seeing a horse being euthanized, has an agenda. Those same screens are used on highways all across America when fatal car accidents occur. It is not some sinister plot.
Sharp post.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:03 PM   #69
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Oaklawn 9th, 3 horses did not finish the race, fell,collapsed,eased
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:25 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by firstoffclaim
Oaklawn 9th, 3 horses did not finish the race, fell,collapsed,eased
In that order?

Is this the first of a daily report from you?

Last edited by Cardus; 03-25-2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by nijinski
No word yet on this poor filly , 25 starts last year . All prior trainers involved need to be questioned by the new inquiry board as well as the Vets. Just my opinion.
Not to mention since age two , never had a season off . cmon.
Whoever the Vet was that cleared her needs to explain. if she cae out with bad action , something was wrong.
I don't really get this. She obviously has been a sound, sturdy horse. She has just been slow. She has raced regularly, much more than average, without incident...until today. There is no way to know if the vet missed something. Until horses learn to talk, things like this will happen.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:54 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menifee
The states have created artificial subsidies with slot money. As with any other state subsidy (i.e., post-graduate education), the quality of the product suffers and the quantity supplied expands because the market is distorted. Thus, you have people entering lame and injured horses in an attempt to chase that money. Those New Mexico tracks would not survive without the artificial subsidy.
This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:00 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Marlin
This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?
Well, if that is true, why did NYRA cut purses for the cheaper horses? They same to believe exactly what you termed nonsense. It is a lot easier to "flip" horses with bigger purses and make a profit without worrying about the horse's welfare.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:15 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by cj
I don't really get this. She obviously has been a sound, sturdy horse. She has just been slow. She has raced regularly, much more than average, without incident...until today. There is no way to know if the vet missed something. Until horses learn to talk, things like this will happen.
She had 25 races at three , One month off from age two so aboust 31 straight total , at that point . Well above average . She has heart and ability no doubt , but that's squeezing her . Again that's my feeling.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:30 AM   #75
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I think racing in general needs to clean up their act and go drug free like in Australia and Hong Kong. PERIOD

But I also disagree with parts of the NY times story too. The CT race had a horse break down but all the others who fell came away unharmed including the horses and riders and it was the stewards decision to scrap the last race b/c of concerns about the SLY rated track NOT what the story said. So get the damn story right!

I think the small time tracks need to close such as: FP, RUI, WRD, NP, FON, ALB, ASD, ARP, SRP & FMT based on handle alone to help with the horse population at better tracks.

With that being said I also think the all weather surfaces in CA has done NOTHING to make the sport safer. Just look at the #s according to the article. Why is HP at 7.9 in the last 3 yrs while PID is 1.3?

I am sick and tired of hearing about this sport being dead. The day that NBC (or any tv network) stops showing racing on TV is when this sport's days are numbered!

People hated Michael Vick for dog fighting, but he came back and most forgot about it. Look at the "loser" N.O. coach paying to take out players in the NFL. We are talking about hurting another human with INTENT!! Baseball has players doping up and hurting the game like Bonds, McGwire, etc. Basketball had a ref fixing games so his "pals" could win in Vegas. NHL games have fight after fight and guys using sticks as weapons and people take their kids to see this shit!?! WWF is the same thing (acting or not) Soccer (non U.S.) has riots in the stands and people dying at a damn sporting event! Local pop warner football where the parents are taking out kids on the field, knocing them down (youtube it sometime) and then parents go at each other like a dog in heat. I could go on and on...

This sport called horse racing is a gem that has many rough spots. Yes there arent many fans in the stands. But thank the OTBs, internet, phone betting, $4 a gallon gas etc for that.

Vegas wasnt built on winners and everyone loves the neon lights, the 24/7 action and instant riches they can get from a casino (which they never do get) and not two hours to find out if I hit a .50 pick 4. This is why casinos make their money b/c people dont know the odds that are stacked against them when they walk in the door.

CA racing is a joke anymore and NM racing should be ashamed, but there are SO many great stories in this game that many people dont cover. I get goosebumps during the triple crown and the excellent montages NBC does on horses, trainers, jockeys etc that make this sport tick, waking up at 4am in the morning or spending millions of dollars to find a derby champ.

We have some bad seeds in this sport, but every sport does. When the racing big wigs can band together and stop this shit, the better it will become for this game.

If the one guy wants to stop betting, so be it. But I hope he enjoys going to a basketball game paying $70 for a half decent seat along with the other charges he would fork over to watch a professional sport that the players might be in a half-ass mood depending on whether or not their g/f was "in the mood" hours before the game starts or they stubbed their toe in the 5 star hotel they are staying in

Bottom line horse racing... clean up the drugs and fix the crap with the right answers that are staring you in the face. I will still watch my races, make my bets, and unless racing shuts their doors, that wont change me no matter what any person writes in any paper!

Last edited by racingfan378; 03-26-2012 at 01:33 AM.
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