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06-23-2011, 06:11 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,761
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Del Mar: head to head at 10.
Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout.
How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?
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06-23-2011, 06:20 PM
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#2
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FenceBored
Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout.
How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?
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I wouldn't really call 10% low takeout on a bet that can only have two outcomes.
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06-23-2011, 06:41 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 1,028
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"Right, this is something I can bet with my girlfriends," agreed Bo Derek.
Awesome, The Perfect Ten is going to have money in the pools!
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06-23-2011, 07:21 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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When you factor breakage on a two horse wager that will have some really low payouts when the favorite of the two wins, the takeout can actually go higher than the standard 15+ percent on regular wps.
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06-24-2011, 07:35 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 660
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10% takeout for a head to head match up bet is a terrible deal
Bookies on head to head match ups in sports are happy to bet prices equivalent to a 5% takeout. But these are fixed odds where the bookie has some risk of losing. A parimutuel tote bet has no risk of losing for the tote operator so really the takeout should be lower than the 5% offered by fixed odds bookies. 2% to 2.5% takeout is probably fair for this sort of parimutuel bet. Also you want to keep the rounding down of dividends as low as possible with this bet
You need to set the takeout very low as people are not going to be very interested in a bet that pays odds on most of the time when the takeout is 10% plus rounding down of dividends
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06-24-2011, 08:07 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 359
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Simple Illustration:
Assume even money is bet on both horses so that my $100 and someone elses 100 cancel each other out. Of that $200, they are going to take $20 leaving $180 for payout on a $100 bet that should be paying even money.
Betting sports sides in most scenarios (-110) gets you back $191 on your $100. So all-in-all, pretty horrible value and a ridiculous spin put on this.
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06-24-2011, 08:38 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,655
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it depends on what type of horses are chosen for the head to head (40/40, 80/20),
but breakage could easily add another 10% to money for track
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06-24-2011, 10:05 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,585
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Breakage will easily add an average of at least 3% to this wager. Sports betting the takeout is 4.6% with no breakage, plus you have a vast array of match ups or over-unders to choose from.
This could be an experiment to see if they can get away with a 10 or 12% takeout on exchange wagering.
Didn't Churchill have an odd even bet with a 4% takeout (adding breakage it might have been close to double the take of sports betting)? That didn't fly to well, I can't see this doing well either.
I have to ask, other than Bo Derek, what other gamblers did they survey to come up with this one?
__________________
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06-24-2011, 10:38 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FenceBored
Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout. Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1Q8id7JqH
How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?
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"Chairman Keith Blackpool said that he was intrigued by the POTENTIAL such a wager could have on the non-racing public."
Why should we worry about the fate of California racing...when people like Keith Blackpool are at the helm?
Here we have a bet which will only offer about an even-money return (or much less)...and this "genius" thinks this will have an affect on the NON-RACING public...
Nice to see that the racing leaders are so "in tune" with what the public wants...
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 06-24-2011 at 10:48 AM.
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06-24-2011, 10:50 AM
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#10
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Screw PC
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
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This says all you need to know about the head-to-head wager:
Quote:
"It is a bet you can make without a great deal of handicapping," said David Israel. It could attract novice players, he noted.
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Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1QCm56Jxm
__________________
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.
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06-24-2011, 11:18 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DJofSD
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IMO, the head-to-head wager is an EXCELLENT idea, but not with a 10% takeout plus breakage...and not with a focus on the "non-racing" public -- because the return on this bet will be deemed very unappetizing by most.
I don't understand; if they think it's such a good idea...why offer it just once a week?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 06-24-2011 at 11:31 AM.
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06-24-2011, 11:21 AM
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#12
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Screw PC
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,728
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I think the bet is, at best, a stop-gap measure.
There isn't anything they can do to increase the size of the fields or the number of racing days. But, they can find new ways to churn the money.
Money and fools are soon parted.
__________________
Truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.
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06-24-2011, 01:53 PM
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#13
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,188
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This is what is known as an absolute sucker bet to rape the public that has no knowledge of wagering.
10% takeout plus breakage will break all of the suckers that play this bet.
Thanks again California racing, you really put your thinking caps on to come up with this one.  
_______
David-LV
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06-24-2011, 02:10 PM
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#14
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Anything to keep from resending the exotic takeout hikes of last winter.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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06-24-2011, 04:00 PM
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#15
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Del Mar is targeting 'sports bettors' by offering a -120 (math correct?) on both sides bet.
Sports bettors can bet -110 on each side in Vegas, and even -110 is a lot to overcome to be profitable, why would any bettors give them minus a dollar 20?
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