Tracknet rebates

[lamboguy]

i am dealing with the bulk of my wagering with UBET. they don't have tracknet million dollar rates. they give close to nothing now on all tracknet tracks. so i decided to get an account with another adw that pays better on tracknet but require $1 million a year bet. since the fiasco with the tracknet i have cut way back on the amounts that i play on those tracks, so i focused more on tracks like penn national and charlestown, sulfolk and arrapahoe, where the rates give me a little shot.

the new adw that i have to deal with told me that tracknet does frequent audits to see how much volume one plays. since i am not playing my main tracks with them i am not going to reach the million. and cannot get those rates on tracknet.

i am bringing this up because it has become a vicious circle. i expect churchill downs handle to fall at least 20% this year. from what i can see the business model for tracknet don't care. and probably wants to get rid of horseracing all together. magna entertainment is out of busines, maybe churchill downs is next to go. i think penn national gaming wants to improve racing product and deserves the business.

[startngate]

This is nothing new ... TrackNet has been requiring $1 million in wagering by customers to be able to get any decent level of rebates on their tracks ever since they came into being.

Churchill's handle isn't going to be impacted any more or less this year than any previous year because of this.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by startngate

This is nothing new ... TrackNet has been requiring $1 million in wagering by customers to be able to get any decent level of rebates on their tracks ever since they came into being.

Churchill's handle isn't going to be impacted any more or less this year than any previous year because of this.

lack of betting leads to less handle, less handle leads to less purses, less purses lead to good horsemen taking a quick hike.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think penn national gaming wants to improve racing product and deserves the business.

I don't believe my eyes. Are we talking about the same Penn National that we all have come to know and distrust.

[trying2win]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i think penn national gaming wants to improve racing product and deserves the business.

Sorry Lamboguy, but I respectfully disagree with your point there. In my opinion, I think PENN NATIONAL GAMING has ulterior motives when trying to buy racetracks. I surmise their ultimate goal is not to refurbish racetracks and lower the track takeout, but to expand their gambling empire with more casinos, and to have racetracks only as a minor sideline. Possibly, PENN NATIONAL GAMING hopes to eliminate racetracks altogether from their properties. Who knows?

Here's one of the latest examples of PENN NATIONAL GAMING's tactics when they're considering buying Beulah Park. By the way, I don't believe what those PENN NATIONAL GAMING officials say in this article:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ip-beulah-park


I've stated many times before in other posts, what I think of casinos. Despite their claims that they bring prosperity and jobs every time they open one of their @#%$! casinos, I contend the opposite happens. They are a blight on society. Many naive, gullible, low-income people fall prey to things like slot machines, and become addicted to them. Then the gambling debts start to mount up for these unfortunate victims, and all the social problems that go along with those losses. Families suffer, local businesses selling finer products and services suffer too, because many slot machine addicts aren't spending as much money at their stores. Casino games in the long run are negative expectation games. I can't understand why otherwise intelligent people don't think of that consequence.

The only people getting rich in the long run are the casino owners, plus provincial and state governments. I'd like it if more provinces or states would let the voters in a community, decide if they want slot machines in their community. I'd vote NO!

In one bit of twisted irony, despite my loathing of PENN NATIONAL GAMING, I must confess I like betting the races at PENN NATIONAL racetrack! But win betting only! A lot better so, than wagering on synthetic surface tracks.

T2W

[jamey1977]

The goal is to profit. It isn't to break even. Who the hell wants to bet a million dollars to get a 7 percent rebate and barely break even. And make 70 thousand. That's if the book doesn't get raided and you lose everything, also the I.R.S. will come after you and charge you anticipated taxes anyway. If you are short. The jerks will think you're lying and tax you anyway. Who needs the headache ? . Figure out a way to get 30 percent winners at a 9 dollar average. That way you have nothing to worry about. Who the hell needs a rebate when you can bet 70 times a month and win - 21 races at a 10 dollar average. Bet To Win. Only. Just 100 dollars to win . Straight. Will get you 3500 dollars a month. 42 thousand dollars a year. And you're worried about a stupid ass rebate. Profit. And yes. It can be done. Do not bet exotics. Don't fall for that crap. Bet To Win

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by jamey1977

The goal is to profit. It isn't to break even. Who the hell wants to bet a million dollars to get a 7 percent rebate and barely break even. And make 70 thousand. That's if the book doesn't get raided and you lose everything, also the I.R.S. will come after you and charge you anticipated taxes anyway. If you are short. The jerks will think you're lying and tax you anyway. Who needs the headache ? . Figure out a way to get 30 percent winners at a 9 dollar average. That way you have nothing to worry about. Who the hell needs a rebate when you can bet 70 times a month and win - 21 races at a 10 dollar average. Bet To Win. Only. Just 100 dollars to win . Straight. Will get you 3500 dollars a month. 42 thousand dollars a year. And you're worried about a stupid ass rebate. Profit. And yes. It can be done. Do not bet exotics. Don't fall for that crap. Bet To Win

Your post makes little sense. Nobody is talking about a "book" here. Rebates can be had from licensed companies that put every dollar into the pool.
If you find a way to $7,000 a month to win $3500 more power to you.....but it isn't very easy. But lets say you do. What is wrong with making another $300 on rebates a month? What if you have a bad month and lose $300, why not break even?

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by startngate

This is nothing new ... TrackNet has been requiring $1 million in wagering by customers to be able to get any decent level of rebates on their tracks ever since they came into being.

Churchill's handle isn't going to be impacted any more or less this year than any previous year because of this.

i know people that have been betting big money at churchill and on the track for many years, and they are not planning on betting this year with the expected smaller handles.

maybe i can speak for myself, but i used to bet only major tracks because they had smaller takeouts and larger pools. i stopped focusing on them because the way it breaks down is like this. churhill takeout for wps is 16%, i get 2% rebate, efective rate is 14%. pennn natioanl 17% wps, rebate 9% my total cost is now 8%. so for every hundred i bet at churchill it will cost me $6 more than penn national. $100k for the meet would cost me $6000 for the priviledge of betting on churchill downs. for an every day bettor like myself churchill has just priced me out of their product. i love churchill and wish them well, i just can't afford them. maybe they make up the loss of handle from people like me with new faces in the game. maybe they find those people overseas some place.

[ronsmac]

I agree with you. I bet So Cal exclusively for yrs. Then i couldn't bet the Santa Anita meet because of the $1,000,000 dollar policy. So my handle went from about 8 to 10 k a week to zero for their meet. I'm not sure how that was good business sense.

[DeanT]

I know two people who have done this as well. 4 horse fields like the second race, with 14 points on the win take, is a short walk to the poorhouse.

[trying2win]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i know people that have been betting big money at churchill and on the track for many years, and they are not planning on betting this year with the expected smaller handles.

maybe i can speak for myself, but i used to bet only major tracks because they had smaller takeouts and larger pools. i stopped focusing on them because the way it breaks down is like this. churhill takeout for wps is 16%, i get 2% rebate, efective rate is 14%. pennn natioanl 17% wps, rebate 9% my total cost is now 8%. so for every hundred i bet at churchill it will cost me $6 more than penn national. $100k for the meet would cost me $6000 for the priviledge of betting on churchill downs. for an every day bettor like myself churchill has just priced me out of their product. i love churchill and wish them well, i just can't afford them. maybe they make up the loss of handle from people like me with new faces in the game. maybe they find those people overseas some place.

LAMBOGUY:

Excellent post! In my opinion, you're right on the money with your comments here. I hope a lot of short-sighted racetrack executives read your post, and see how many price-sensitive bettors are reacting to the level of takeouts at their racetracks.

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~“A satisfied customer is the best business strategy of all.”

-- Michael Leboeuf

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by trying2win

LAMBOGUY:

Excellent post! In my opinion, you're right on the money with your comments here. I hope a lot of short-sighted racetrack executives read your post, and see how many price-sensitive bettors are reacting to the level of takeouts at their racetracks.

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~“A satisfied customer is the best business strategy of all.”

-- Michael Leboeuf

they might be banking on business coming in from people out of the country into these pools. but with the way the game is set up in this country, i highly doubt that they will be able to produce what they think they will produce in worldwide business. the people in the orient that bet on japaneese and hong kong races like it because of the transparency that they offer. in this country they offer nothing, and they act like they are doing you a favor to lose your money.

[trying2win]

The rebates offered at ADWS (and dictated at TRACKNET racetracks at 2 %) in my opinion, is an insult. For my win bets on a TRACKNET racetrack, I do it through CARIB SPORTS, an offshore racebook and receive a 5 % rebate. That's my response to the TRACKNET dictators. If TRACKNET thinks their rebate policy is a sound, maximum, profit-producing policy for them and attracts more bettors, I disagree.

At many other tracks I bet through ADWS, which benefit the ADW, racetracks and horsemen. I rarely bet at HPI through, due to the measly rebate offer policy of some lowlife, executive dictators there. However, even that might change, because over the last few years more ADWS are lowering my rebates. One main reason they tell me is because of increasing signal fees. Who do we blame for that, greedy racetrack executives, or greedy horsemen groups, or a combination of both of them? If that keeps up....more of my win bets will be sent to CARIB SPORTS.

T2W
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~"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else."

--Sam Walton
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[jamey1977]

I am trying to find licensed companies. Yes, if there is an honest licensed company. Why not? When I find one. They always say California is ineligible. I can't go off-shore because they don't send the money and the books can be raided. If you can get 6 percent back. Or 3 percent. No problem. But the goal in handicapping is profits. One should concentrate on profits. Many longshot players are just wasting their money. If the favorite is strong, not hard to spot a strong favorite. Pass The Race. Rebates could be cancelled or changed and where will one go. ? The goal is always profit. Just because someone says it can't be done. He doesn't speak for everyone. There's guys that bet strong second picks going against even moneys. 1000 dollars to win. They win half of their plays. There are players so damn good. You can't even imagine. It can be done. Remember professional horseplayer means professional. Just like a professional baseball player or professional tennis player. It is an extremely advanced skill. Bet To Win

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by jamey1977

I am trying to find licensed companies. Yes, if there is an honest licensed company. Why not? When I find one. They always say California is ineligible. I can't go off-shore because they don't send the money and the books can be raided. If you can get 6 percent back. Or 3 percent. No problem. But the goal in handicapping is profits. One should concentrate on profits. Many longshot players are just wasting their money. If the favorite is strong, not hard to spot a strong favorite. Pass The Race. Rebates could be cancelled or changed and where will one go. ? The goal is always profit. Just because someone says it can't be done. He doesn't speak for everyone. There's guys that bet strong second picks going against even moneys. 1000 dollars to win. They win half of their plays. There are players so damn good. You can't even imagine. It can be done. Remember professional horseplayer means professional. Just like a professional baseball player or professional tennis player. It is an extremely advanced skill. Bet To Win

they don't give rebates to cally customers last i checked. this whole system stinks. because the product is so bad these days they have to give rebates. the way they look at it, its cheaper to give rebates than fix the whole game. i think that tracknet has a hidden agenda here to demolish the sport of horseracing so they can put pressure on statehouses to hand out slot machine license's to race tracks. some people in racetrack management have figured out that there is a need for live racing because slot machines are a mindless brain dead non challenging game. there will come a point when the house cleans out these people that sit in front of machines 96 times in a row that they won't come back for more punishment.

if you run the racing game the right way, you could develop more owners, and more people coming to the track to buy saugy hot dogs and warm beer. and if they got slots they might wander into the slot room and pull the lever.